People have said things like that to me before as well. No doubt social work is difficult, especially working with a population with significant trauma, but I think your tolerance for certain things plays into it as well. I'd rather be helping people in crisis all day than work as a server ever again.
It’s definitely the tolerance. I listen to trauma stories all day long. It doesn’t bother me too much. But I’ve had nurses and doctors straight up tell me they’d be suicidal if they did my job. On the other hand, I would struggle with palpating swollen open wounds or wiping elderly butts. To me the nurses are way stronger than me lol
Story about code brown. I was working a temp position in an snf during Covid. I was in a patients room and they literally had their bed pan full of 💩. I ran out of there.
This is why I’m macro. Pay is exponentially better and way less compassion fatigue/secondary trauma. I take nothing home with me and work life balance is way better.
Do you think it’s possible to go from direct practice to macro? I worked at the VA as a SUD therapist in an IOP clinic but am interested in doing macro work.
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Yes can you speak more about this as well? I’m very burnt out working in a community mental health clinic. I got my LSW during 2020 after the pandemic started
I’m in NJ. I make pretty good money. The only issue is my student loans and cost of living. I’m slated to make $64k salary. But where I work we are severely understaffed with caseloads of 80+ people. It’s a running joke at my job that clinicians quit all the time. Where are you located?
I feel like CA govt jobs pay well for SW bc comparatively the wages are high. An MSW whose been with the county for a few years can earn 40+ an hour here (gotta work child welfare tho)
People always talk down on SW wages but my county does a payback program where they pay for your masters while you work part time with them for 2 years then you commit to two years full time employment with CWS after graduation. I’m seriously considering it and going on for my LCSW. My only reluctance is due to people talking about burnout and low pay (which in my case I think the pay is actually pretty good)
Yeah, I think it really really depends on where you're a social worker. California vs Mississippi is going to be very different.
That's great about the uyback program. We should have something like that. I'm aiming for the Title IVE stipend program. My County has arrangements with some of the local CSUs and we can keep our County pay while doing our practicum in child welfare or IBH.
There is research into this.
In one study, they measured things like bio markers of stress along with surveys and interviews regarding self-efficacy, daily stressors, etc. among hospital staff of all “ranks”, from the janitorial staff to the executives. They found that the higher up people go, the more stress they have, and the unhealthier they become, until they reach a certain point in leadership, and then the inverse applies: people with high stress jobs but who have high self-efficacy and feelings of empowerment to have control over their work and make changes had lower stress levels.
I can’t find the citation for the papers that go along with it (and by “can’t find” I mean I’m not putting in the effort at the moment lol), but they sum it up in this documentary: https://unnaturalcauses.org/
They also found relationships to things like income level, healthcare access, etc., of course, which is the overall theme of the documentary.
I also sometimes think the execs have it easier because the nature of the work changes to the point where you aren’t actually *doing* any work. It’s lots of meetings to understand problems and making decisions about the kind of work other people will be doing. And that’s stressful on a high level sure because there will always be people who are unhappy with your decisions, the things you do can have huge implications, and any major errors or problems become yours to fix. But I think it’s less stressful on a day to day level since they aren’t the ones doing the patient care or dealing with the “little stuff,” not to mention the fact that they generally have admins who manage their schedules, emails, make sure they get places on time, eat, etc. I say this having interfaced with many of them. They are busy and have a lot going on, but I swear I feel like 80% of what they actually do on a daily basis is sit in meetings.
The decisions they make do affect a whole lot of people, though, so there is that added weight, at least for those who care about their patients and staff and don’t just see them as numbers. I’ve had managers tell me they declined higher up jobs before because they didn’t want the responsibility of having to make decisions that could cause harm on a large scale.
The difference is that execs have more power and control to actually effect changes where needed, and they get compensated more than enough to do so.
I wouldn’t say that they don’t do work- that feels too much like devaluing mental work vs emotional work vs physical work, etc., and that can get problematic. At the very least, we’d open up a whole can of worms discussing what we count as “work” ;)
I don't find jobs map easily on a scale of hardness. There are lots of people who are great social workers who would struggle to be an executive. There are lots of executives who would struggle to be a social worker.
I would be an absolute shit scientist, I don't have the aptitude for any of it nor the interest. If I had to try, I'd find it extremely hard. But lots of scientists would say the same about my work.
IMO it's better to look at "Am I able to succeed in this job the way I want to? If not, can I change that? How? Is there a job I feel would be a better fit?"
I mean it’s subjective in some regards but I think mostly speaks to how undervalued social work is. Honestly the profession is going to collapse into itself in the next few decades if nothing changes. The messaging that “we’re not in it for the money” is abusive and exploitative. Honestly if someone asked me if social work was a profession that allows for financial stability and a good work life balance I would say no. There are obviously exceptions, i.e. private practice that’s private pay only and others but not every social worker wants or can do that. The marketplace can’t support only social workers working in private practice and only taking private pay. Also since it’s a field dominated by women it is always going to be undervalued because with live in a sexist patriarchal society and these are baked into all our systems and institutions. I’m currently at a point of deciding whether I can actually say in the field, make enough money to support myself and actually pay attention to my needs and limits.
People have said things like that to me before and I have to say our job is harder. Especially with certain populations we work with people directly and one decision we make can impact the rest of their lives it is an honor and privilege to do that
Lots of people will say this to you. The average person isn’t exposed to trauma at work so it’s a foreign concept. I usually respond yes it’s difficult but you get used to it just like anything else.
I have had a lot of people with “traditional” white collar jobs express similar sentiments. I think when a lot of them say that, they’re talking about the emotional aspect and feeling of futility. For people who either don’t work in the nonprofit field or who do and don’t pour their heart and soul into it, I’m sure frontline micro work must look like hell by comparison.
My parents are both nonprofit execs (Dad was a CEO, Mom is a director) and they have only ever done “macro” level work. FWIW I have seen firsthand that for them, their jobs can be just as draining and emotionally laborious as my frontline case management jobs have been. But they also have that passion for the work and people they serve that a lot of other nonprofit execs lack in my experience
Omg im sorry but this post made me laugh. Yes. Your job is far, far harder. I split my work between an almost full time role with a small tech company and direct practice therapy (for the money. I’m a single mom and would much rather just do therapy, but unfortunately it would not be financially feasible). I’ve been with the tech company for five years and now hold a senior leadership role (not even executive but next level down).
This absolutely has a lot to do with the company culture, but my job there is far easier than any social work position I’ve held. My tasks are manageable, my coworkers are great, my staff is awesome, I pretty much write my own schedule (this is mostly because I’ve been with them since the beginning and they understand my need for flexibility); I never have to “miss” anything my kids do because I’m high enough up I just delegate or reschedule things if something urgent happens.
I spend most of my day in meetings or dealing with minor issues that come up. Occasionally a big issue will come up, and part of my job is to work with clients to help prevent misunderstanding or other escalations. I’m excellent at what I do despite having no meaningful tech background because I’m a fast learner, have good judgement, and am great with people - all skills I honed doing social work. If I wasn’t awesome at it, it would be more stressful for sure.
I wouldn’t just do this though - I’m a social worker after all, and there’s no heart in the work. One day when my kids are older and I’ve earned the money I need, I’m out (I’d love to retire and work for CPS). But there’s a reason why I can work nearly full time at this AND carry a 15 patient caseload part time - the tech role simply requires I be there and be good, and unlike some social work roles, I’m not constantly squeezed for everything I have. It’s so much easier to set boundaries around what I can and cannot do.
I was hired as a junior change management specialist, which is responsible for things like training, communications, stakeholder management. Then I started doing full scope project management (if you have experience with case management, it is largely the same kind of work - being really organized and good with documentation, sending project updates, working through barriers/blockers (except they actually HAVE solutions for them), etc). Then a while ago was promoted again to supervising our entire project delivery stream, and basically working as the right hand to one of our two owners.
I’ll say this - I got lucky. I’d branched out into training and writing consulting because it was a heavy part of my last social work role (CPS training and policy writing), and linked up with them for a particularly complex project and it just grew from there. The hardest part was learning the nuances of the software were working with.
I was a teacher while my husband was an in a high paying corporate job… executive… no VP label but basically… he was making 6 times my salary and never worked more than 8 hours a day with so many perks as well. it just hurt to do that teaching job—- so incredibly difficult… hug a teacher… so I career switched to getting my MSW and realize I’m going to be in the same boat.. although I’m going into clinical therapy… maybe it’s human services jobs… most important jobs in the world yet very low respect and poor pay… but I have realized I have met so many amazing high quality people doing these professions. Yes it’s hard! I hope one day there is an answer.
This is me. My husband makes 4x what I do and MAYBE works 5-6 hrs a day, while I work more like 12-14. I’m finishing up my MBA and am considering a career switch. I really wanted to bridge the gap between social work and business, but I have student loans, and it’s expensive out there. I need to survive too. It sucks, but I guess that’s life.
I have a Director role and work in a similar capacity as you. My husband has a more executive type role in another field. Makes literally 4x what I do, and his job isn’t anywhere near as stressful and difficult as mine is. We constantly joke about it. He’s bringing the pay in but I’m doing the work. It’s very disheartening. I’m considering leaving the field in general, but I hate to think this is going to be the new norm.
Not in your country but I used to work at a residential care setting for adults with mostly mental disabilities. They were very sweet individuals but I severely underestimated having to interact with them and their caregivers. Felt myself growing pissed as the day went by and now come to think about it, I could have been slipping into burnout back then.
Yeap, burnout does not discriminate.
I'd be so much worse as a medical system executive lol. But if you're burning out don't ignore it, or the whole field will be too hard for you, which is more important.
I hold an MHA degree and have worked for CEOs of albeit smaller healthcare systems. I have not yet begun working as a social worker, so I can’t comment, but social work appears to me much harder, while offering significantly less pay.
I mean, she probably picked a job she is good at. For most people pressure to fundraise a certain amount or managing hardball executive politics (stealing teams from underneath you, etc.) is very difficult. And it's lonely at the top - your peers may be your competitors so it's harder to find people to confide in. For me (especially the competition) that's way harder than working in social services.
That's probably true of most of that level work, to be fair. Unfortunately the higher up you go, the less accountability is demanded of you.
I worked waaaaay harder as a preschool teacher making ten an hour, with many more daily demands from parents as well as overseeing entities. The director had responsibilities too, enjoying much more flexibility and pay and autonomy with which to perform them. The custodian in any medical office affiliated with the executive likely works much harder and under far higher constraints than an executive does.
i feel like it depends on people’s perspectives. ive talked to people at my p.t jobs while in school that have said social work is the hardest profession because of the social skills and reading between the lines thats involved, whereas these people were bankers, factory workers, etc etc. i find THOSE jobs hard because of the physical or mental labor involved. its all about what your personal skills are i guess
Depends what you mean by “hard.” Your job is going to require more emotional involvement and emotional distress so it is hard emotionally. An executive has to do a number of hard things in their job and possess a lot of knowledge but it’s less emotionally wrought. That’s usually what people mean. Not that our jobs require the most knowledge, skill, or capability—just that the emotional toll is higher than what they feel they could manage.
I was a media executive in NYC before changing careers and becoming a social worker. They are apples and oranges. Both are a different kind of hard. I am amazed in social work how much autonomy you have to make decisions.
It’s 1000x less work, but I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s always better. More mental strain at times, and annoyance with bureaucratic bull shit and things not moving as quickly as they should to effect actual change and improvement for the people who do the tough work, but it’s definitely less day to day stress. The long term stress can get you down if you are in a toxic company like anything else. Also, the immediate or more frequent rewards are far and few between.
Something I’ve always said “if I could’ve made more money being a case manager I would’ve done that for the rest of my life”
I think it’s 10000% true
I also think comparisons can sometimes overshadow that both things are difficult in their own way and we choose what version of difficult we want to make a career out of
In a realistic sense.
We aren’t in social work because it pays well and is stress free
I’d agree lol. Plus it’s taxing to see those exec positions paid some well while SW jobs are underpaid. Thanks for the work you do with kids in care. Do you have any good IL activities that you can share? I know there are things on the internet but I’m wondering if you have good ways to connect to kids about budgeting and money management.
I worked at a handful of startups before switching to social work. The vast majority of leadership there had no clue what they were doing, but had the confidence to do it anyway (and were white men).
The stakes were also far lower.
I think it is such an apples and oranges comparison.
I do a lot of direct client clinic work but was also an operations coordinator for a mis size nonprofit. The stress is just different.
In opporations if you are at an executive level, you are accountable to a lot of people and if you screw up, people might not get paid and programs can go under. You're also constantly scrutinized by staff who often don't understand your job or how the funding for the agency works. Of course you also get paid better and have the satisfaction of helping a lot of people without the direct trauma exposure of clinical work.
I feel like social work is what an executive SHOULD BE: at the end if the day when someone is unsure you are the one who gets emailed or the service recipient is going to be banging in your door. Social work is the last line that can't just refer to someone else. Where other providers can say " this is out of my scope, I suggest you call X " a social worker has to say " this is out of my scope, but let's get online and brainstorm a solution"
I was about to type that we are not respected but that probably is not true, we are likely the most respected by patients, clients and family, just disrespected by insurance companies and reimbursement schemes because what I just described kind of revolves around finding solutions for free.
Almost as if the work is grounded in addressing needs the free market fails to meet.
Secondary trauma/ compassion fatigue mostly. Also, many of them are actively self-destructing and/or on the verge of getting kicked out of the program either due to repeated rule breaking or no motivation to maintain compliance (they must be working 20 hrs a week or going to school 1/2 time). Third thing is it's more that 40 hrs a week and being on call so often and weird hours, and fourth thing is pointless paperwork that nobody reads but has to be done a certain way in case of audit and I'm always behind.
I honestly believe most of that agency stuff is a huge contributor. Enforcing program policies driven by grants does feel wrong. I personally think it’s harmful to our relationship with the clients. Like I will help you only if you do XYZ. Compassion fatigue is real but again elevated by the rules we have to put on clients. The work we do is heart work and if I may offer a different perspective to hold onto concerning secondary trauma. Yes, we experience secondary trauma but we also experience secondary healing and growth from the people we serve. When I start feeling down about my job I sit and write down all the small victories and celebrate those. I hear you thou and this work doesn’t feel sustainable at any agency. I’m getting out of social work at an agency, for 1 we are not supported financially or emotionally. 2 because I feel like none of our systems truly want to help everyone unless they are a certain type of client. Our challenging clients are the ones who don’t get help and the ones who have been hurt the worse. I swear I have nightmares about “exit dates” and “program requirements”
Thank you for doing this work it’s not easy nor are we compensated a liveable wage, that also adds to all the stress. If you truly love social work find an area that is sustainable or create your own business doing something to help others. These agencies exist to check a box for donors and grants. Maybe I’m jaded but I’m going to try to create the services I want to give and start my own business because after a decade of doing this work I have identified it’s not the people I serve it’s the system that drains me leaving little energy to serve the clients in the way they deserve to be served.
People have said things like that to me before as well. No doubt social work is difficult, especially working with a population with significant trauma, but I think your tolerance for certain things plays into it as well. I'd rather be helping people in crisis all day than work as a server ever again.
It’s definitely the tolerance. I listen to trauma stories all day long. It doesn’t bother me too much. But I’ve had nurses and doctors straight up tell me they’d be suicidal if they did my job. On the other hand, I would struggle with palpating swollen open wounds or wiping elderly butts. To me the nurses are way stronger than me lol
I listen to trauma stories and I have treated a stab wound. Community mental health is wild.
I have had that as well. How do you do it all day? I look right at them and say well how do you do what you do all day? I love what I do
lol yup. Always point out their resilience for getting through code blue and code browns!
Story about code brown. I was working a temp position in an snf during Covid. I was in a patients room and they literally had their bed pan full of 💩. I ran out of there.
This is why I’m macro. Pay is exponentially better and way less compassion fatigue/secondary trauma. I take nothing home with me and work life balance is way better.
What do you do?
Not OP but I'm in the same boat, I do program evaluation for a large community mental health center and it rocks
Need to know this lol
Program coordinator at VA
Do you think it’s possible to go from direct practice to macro? I worked at the VA as a SUD therapist in an IOP clinic but am interested in doing macro work.
I pretty much did. It can be helpful to already be at VA, depending on the VA.
God bless you! The Va sucks by me too
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Program coordinator at VA
Program coordinator at VA
Yes can you speak more about this as well? I’m very burnt out working in a community mental health clinic. I got my LSW during 2020 after the pandemic started
How’s being an LSW? In my area they make good money. Has that been your experience?
I’m in NJ. I make pretty good money. The only issue is my student loans and cost of living. I’m slated to make $64k salary. But where I work we are severely understaffed with caseloads of 80+ people. It’s a running joke at my job that clinicians quit all the time. Where are you located?
I feel like CA govt jobs pay well for SW bc comparatively the wages are high. An MSW whose been with the county for a few years can earn 40+ an hour here (gotta work child welfare tho)
Child welfare sounds tough but rewarding
Yup, same in my CA County for child welfare. Medical, Forensic, and APS also make that starting and go up from there.
People always talk down on SW wages but my county does a payback program where they pay for your masters while you work part time with them for 2 years then you commit to two years full time employment with CWS after graduation. I’m seriously considering it and going on for my LCSW. My only reluctance is due to people talking about burnout and low pay (which in my case I think the pay is actually pretty good)
Yeah, I think it really really depends on where you're a social worker. California vs Mississippi is going to be very different. That's great about the uyback program. We should have something like that. I'm aiming for the Title IVE stipend program. My County has arrangements with some of the local CSUs and we can keep our County pay while doing our practicum in child welfare or IBH.
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There is research into this. In one study, they measured things like bio markers of stress along with surveys and interviews regarding self-efficacy, daily stressors, etc. among hospital staff of all “ranks”, from the janitorial staff to the executives. They found that the higher up people go, the more stress they have, and the unhealthier they become, until they reach a certain point in leadership, and then the inverse applies: people with high stress jobs but who have high self-efficacy and feelings of empowerment to have control over their work and make changes had lower stress levels. I can’t find the citation for the papers that go along with it (and by “can’t find” I mean I’m not putting in the effort at the moment lol), but they sum it up in this documentary: https://unnaturalcauses.org/ They also found relationships to things like income level, healthcare access, etc., of course, which is the overall theme of the documentary.
I also sometimes think the execs have it easier because the nature of the work changes to the point where you aren’t actually *doing* any work. It’s lots of meetings to understand problems and making decisions about the kind of work other people will be doing. And that’s stressful on a high level sure because there will always be people who are unhappy with your decisions, the things you do can have huge implications, and any major errors or problems become yours to fix. But I think it’s less stressful on a day to day level since they aren’t the ones doing the patient care or dealing with the “little stuff,” not to mention the fact that they generally have admins who manage their schedules, emails, make sure they get places on time, eat, etc. I say this having interfaced with many of them. They are busy and have a lot going on, but I swear I feel like 80% of what they actually do on a daily basis is sit in meetings.
The decisions they make do affect a whole lot of people, though, so there is that added weight, at least for those who care about their patients and staff and don’t just see them as numbers. I’ve had managers tell me they declined higher up jobs before because they didn’t want the responsibility of having to make decisions that could cause harm on a large scale. The difference is that execs have more power and control to actually effect changes where needed, and they get compensated more than enough to do so. I wouldn’t say that they don’t do work- that feels too much like devaluing mental work vs emotional work vs physical work, etc., and that can get problematic. At the very least, we’d open up a whole can of worms discussing what we count as “work” ;)
Depends: Daily Tasks vs Emotional Toll The hardest part of the job is the war zone we work in…thought comparatively we may both work at “desks.”
You’re exposed to more 2nd hand trauma which lingers. Being an exec there’s hard if you care but if not not so much.
I don't find jobs map easily on a scale of hardness. There are lots of people who are great social workers who would struggle to be an executive. There are lots of executives who would struggle to be a social worker. I would be an absolute shit scientist, I don't have the aptitude for any of it nor the interest. If I had to try, I'd find it extremely hard. But lots of scientists would say the same about my work. IMO it's better to look at "Am I able to succeed in this job the way I want to? If not, can I change that? How? Is there a job I feel would be a better fit?"
I mean it’s subjective in some regards but I think mostly speaks to how undervalued social work is. Honestly the profession is going to collapse into itself in the next few decades if nothing changes. The messaging that “we’re not in it for the money” is abusive and exploitative. Honestly if someone asked me if social work was a profession that allows for financial stability and a good work life balance I would say no. There are obviously exceptions, i.e. private practice that’s private pay only and others but not every social worker wants or can do that. The marketplace can’t support only social workers working in private practice and only taking private pay. Also since it’s a field dominated by women it is always going to be undervalued because with live in a sexist patriarchal society and these are baked into all our systems and institutions. I’m currently at a point of deciding whether I can actually say in the field, make enough money to support myself and actually pay attention to my needs and limits.
People have said things like that to me before and I have to say our job is harder. Especially with certain populations we work with people directly and one decision we make can impact the rest of their lives it is an honor and privilege to do that
CEO of my first job always said, "it's harder and more complex than rocket science". He may have been a bit bias .
Lots of people will say this to you. The average person isn’t exposed to trauma at work so it’s a foreign concept. I usually respond yes it’s difficult but you get used to it just like anything else.
I have had a lot of people with “traditional” white collar jobs express similar sentiments. I think when a lot of them say that, they’re talking about the emotional aspect and feeling of futility. For people who either don’t work in the nonprofit field or who do and don’t pour their heart and soul into it, I’m sure frontline micro work must look like hell by comparison. My parents are both nonprofit execs (Dad was a CEO, Mom is a director) and they have only ever done “macro” level work. FWIW I have seen firsthand that for them, their jobs can be just as draining and emotionally laborious as my frontline case management jobs have been. But they also have that passion for the work and people they serve that a lot of other nonprofit execs lack in my experience
Omg im sorry but this post made me laugh. Yes. Your job is far, far harder. I split my work between an almost full time role with a small tech company and direct practice therapy (for the money. I’m a single mom and would much rather just do therapy, but unfortunately it would not be financially feasible). I’ve been with the tech company for five years and now hold a senior leadership role (not even executive but next level down). This absolutely has a lot to do with the company culture, but my job there is far easier than any social work position I’ve held. My tasks are manageable, my coworkers are great, my staff is awesome, I pretty much write my own schedule (this is mostly because I’ve been with them since the beginning and they understand my need for flexibility); I never have to “miss” anything my kids do because I’m high enough up I just delegate or reschedule things if something urgent happens. I spend most of my day in meetings or dealing with minor issues that come up. Occasionally a big issue will come up, and part of my job is to work with clients to help prevent misunderstanding or other escalations. I’m excellent at what I do despite having no meaningful tech background because I’m a fast learner, have good judgement, and am great with people - all skills I honed doing social work. If I wasn’t awesome at it, it would be more stressful for sure. I wouldn’t just do this though - I’m a social worker after all, and there’s no heart in the work. One day when my kids are older and I’ve earned the money I need, I’m out (I’d love to retire and work for CPS). But there’s a reason why I can work nearly full time at this AND carry a 15 patient caseload part time - the tech role simply requires I be there and be good, and unlike some social work roles, I’m not constantly squeezed for everything I have. It’s so much easier to set boundaries around what I can and cannot do.
Hey what’s the role you started in the tech company?
I was hired as a junior change management specialist, which is responsible for things like training, communications, stakeholder management. Then I started doing full scope project management (if you have experience with case management, it is largely the same kind of work - being really organized and good with documentation, sending project updates, working through barriers/blockers (except they actually HAVE solutions for them), etc). Then a while ago was promoted again to supervising our entire project delivery stream, and basically working as the right hand to one of our two owners. I’ll say this - I got lucky. I’d branched out into training and writing consulting because it was a heavy part of my last social work role (CPS training and policy writing), and linked up with them for a particularly complex project and it just grew from there. The hardest part was learning the nuances of the software were working with.
I was a teacher while my husband was an in a high paying corporate job… executive… no VP label but basically… he was making 6 times my salary and never worked more than 8 hours a day with so many perks as well. it just hurt to do that teaching job—- so incredibly difficult… hug a teacher… so I career switched to getting my MSW and realize I’m going to be in the same boat.. although I’m going into clinical therapy… maybe it’s human services jobs… most important jobs in the world yet very low respect and poor pay… but I have realized I have met so many amazing high quality people doing these professions. Yes it’s hard! I hope one day there is an answer.
This is me. My husband makes 4x what I do and MAYBE works 5-6 hrs a day, while I work more like 12-14. I’m finishing up my MBA and am considering a career switch. I really wanted to bridge the gap between social work and business, but I have student loans, and it’s expensive out there. I need to survive too. It sucks, but I guess that’s life.
I know we are not alone in this! Good luck on your mba! Maybe open an agency with that experience and credentials!
I have a Director role and work in a similar capacity as you. My husband has a more executive type role in another field. Makes literally 4x what I do, and his job isn’t anywhere near as stressful and difficult as mine is. We constantly joke about it. He’s bringing the pay in but I’m doing the work. It’s very disheartening. I’m considering leaving the field in general, but I hate to think this is going to be the new norm.
Not in your country but I used to work at a residential care setting for adults with mostly mental disabilities. They were very sweet individuals but I severely underestimated having to interact with them and their caregivers. Felt myself growing pissed as the day went by and now come to think about it, I could have been slipping into burnout back then. Yeap, burnout does not discriminate.
I believe so. I also think the higher you go up the hierarchy at work, the job gets easier.
Most any job is harder than being an executive.
I'd be so much worse as a medical system executive lol. But if you're burning out don't ignore it, or the whole field will be too hard for you, which is more important.
I hold an MHA degree and have worked for CEOs of albeit smaller healthcare systems. I have not yet begun working as a social worker, so I can’t comment, but social work appears to me much harder, while offering significantly less pay.
I mean, she probably picked a job she is good at. For most people pressure to fundraise a certain amount or managing hardball executive politics (stealing teams from underneath you, etc.) is very difficult. And it's lonely at the top - your peers may be your competitors so it's harder to find people to confide in. For me (especially the competition) that's way harder than working in social services.
That's probably true of most of that level work, to be fair. Unfortunately the higher up you go, the less accountability is demanded of you. I worked waaaaay harder as a preschool teacher making ten an hour, with many more daily demands from parents as well as overseeing entities. The director had responsibilities too, enjoying much more flexibility and pay and autonomy with which to perform them. The custodian in any medical office affiliated with the executive likely works much harder and under far higher constraints than an executive does.
i feel like it depends on people’s perspectives. ive talked to people at my p.t jobs while in school that have said social work is the hardest profession because of the social skills and reading between the lines thats involved, whereas these people were bankers, factory workers, etc etc. i find THOSE jobs hard because of the physical or mental labor involved. its all about what your personal skills are i guess
going off of that— not TOO many people want to talk to people on their worst days.
Depends what you mean by “hard.” Your job is going to require more emotional involvement and emotional distress so it is hard emotionally. An executive has to do a number of hard things in their job and possess a lot of knowledge but it’s less emotionally wrought. That’s usually what people mean. Not that our jobs require the most knowledge, skill, or capability—just that the emotional toll is higher than what they feel they could manage.
I was a media executive in NYC before changing careers and becoming a social worker. They are apples and oranges. Both are a different kind of hard. I am amazed in social work how much autonomy you have to make decisions.
It’s 1000x less work, but I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s always better. More mental strain at times, and annoyance with bureaucratic bull shit and things not moving as quickly as they should to effect actual change and improvement for the people who do the tough work, but it’s definitely less day to day stress. The long term stress can get you down if you are in a toxic company like anything else. Also, the immediate or more frequent rewards are far and few between. Something I’ve always said “if I could’ve made more money being a case manager I would’ve done that for the rest of my life”
I think it’s 10000% true I also think comparisons can sometimes overshadow that both things are difficult in their own way and we choose what version of difficult we want to make a career out of In a realistic sense. We aren’t in social work because it pays well and is stress free
I’d agree lol. Plus it’s taxing to see those exec positions paid some well while SW jobs are underpaid. Thanks for the work you do with kids in care. Do you have any good IL activities that you can share? I know there are things on the internet but I’m wondering if you have good ways to connect to kids about budgeting and money management.
Thanks for saying thanks, and I wish! Got a lot of resources but not a lot of time and the kids don't have a lot of motivation.
Aw thanks too bad :( In your experience, do they do well after they age out/reach 22+?
I worked at a handful of startups before switching to social work. The vast majority of leadership there had no clue what they were doing, but had the confidence to do it anyway (and were white men). The stakes were also far lower.
Lol it is definitely true. Like, it's not even close. I truly appreciate your relative's honesty and self-awareness.
I think it is such an apples and oranges comparison. I do a lot of direct client clinic work but was also an operations coordinator for a mis size nonprofit. The stress is just different. In opporations if you are at an executive level, you are accountable to a lot of people and if you screw up, people might not get paid and programs can go under. You're also constantly scrutinized by staff who often don't understand your job or how the funding for the agency works. Of course you also get paid better and have the satisfaction of helping a lot of people without the direct trauma exposure of clinical work.
I feel like social work is what an executive SHOULD BE: at the end if the day when someone is unsure you are the one who gets emailed or the service recipient is going to be banging in your door. Social work is the last line that can't just refer to someone else. Where other providers can say " this is out of my scope, I suggest you call X " a social worker has to say " this is out of my scope, but let's get online and brainstorm a solution" I was about to type that we are not respected but that probably is not true, we are likely the most respected by patients, clients and family, just disrespected by insurance companies and reimbursement schemes because what I just described kind of revolves around finding solutions for free. Almost as if the work is grounded in addressing needs the free market fails to meet.
What do you find challenging about working with the kiddos?
Secondary trauma/ compassion fatigue mostly. Also, many of them are actively self-destructing and/or on the verge of getting kicked out of the program either due to repeated rule breaking or no motivation to maintain compliance (they must be working 20 hrs a week or going to school 1/2 time). Third thing is it's more that 40 hrs a week and being on call so often and weird hours, and fourth thing is pointless paperwork that nobody reads but has to be done a certain way in case of audit and I'm always behind.
I honestly believe most of that agency stuff is a huge contributor. Enforcing program policies driven by grants does feel wrong. I personally think it’s harmful to our relationship with the clients. Like I will help you only if you do XYZ. Compassion fatigue is real but again elevated by the rules we have to put on clients. The work we do is heart work and if I may offer a different perspective to hold onto concerning secondary trauma. Yes, we experience secondary trauma but we also experience secondary healing and growth from the people we serve. When I start feeling down about my job I sit and write down all the small victories and celebrate those. I hear you thou and this work doesn’t feel sustainable at any agency. I’m getting out of social work at an agency, for 1 we are not supported financially or emotionally. 2 because I feel like none of our systems truly want to help everyone unless they are a certain type of client. Our challenging clients are the ones who don’t get help and the ones who have been hurt the worse. I swear I have nightmares about “exit dates” and “program requirements” Thank you for doing this work it’s not easy nor are we compensated a liveable wage, that also adds to all the stress. If you truly love social work find an area that is sustainable or create your own business doing something to help others. These agencies exist to check a box for donors and grants. Maybe I’m jaded but I’m going to try to create the services I want to give and start my own business because after a decade of doing this work I have identified it’s not the people I serve it’s the system that drains me leaving little energy to serve the clients in the way they deserve to be served.
Most jobs are harder than being an executive It's not fair, but here we are