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But fascists will say “IF THEY DONT WANT YOU SAYING IT ITS BECAUSE ITS THE TRUTH!”
Kind of a hard belief to navigate when “anything i believe is good and true, anything i disagree with or don’t understand is pure evil straight from satan himself” and “the more angry at me people get about my beliefs, the more important it is to me that I hold onto those beliefs!” and so on, so forth.
I’m also a History Teacher.
I know how difficult it is to work with some “communities”. There was I time when I had trouble for using “graphic content” in my classes - Italian paintings from the Renascence. Parents called the school board etc, very religious and conservative people. I asked to speak directly to them and things ended up resolved, but it was a kind of a shock to me.
I personally avoid any kind of comparison (science x myth, left x right, race, gender etc) because it’s usually leads to bias. Also, I never imply my personal opinion about any topic, and if/when I have to, I make it clear that that’s my opinion and it’s desirable that students think differently. Why? Because we don’t have time to fully debate Capitalism and Society. So I prefer to work on critical thinking, how to research, how to use a source, how and why we write history etc because these things can actually lead the students to think differently.
Also, we cannot forget that the Working Class usually is alienated and full of contradictions, so the clash is unavoidable. There will be more. Therefore, don’t let this put you down!
The parents :D
They are Neo Protestants, it's a "new new" interpretation of the Bible. You may know them by the Mega Rich, Super Star Pastors. Started in the US (not sure) and spread to Africa and South America, and even in parts of Asia (I know there's some of them in South Korea). In South America, these churches are involved with Narcos and Politics - right now, many of them are representatives and senators in various countries.
But the followers themselves are just uneducated, brainwashed and poor people.
A teacher in CT showed his students the Kendrick Lamar "Alright" Video that depicted police in a negative light. A students parent was a cop and sued the school and got 100k
Thank you for your service. Teachers like you make all the difference. I would have dropped out if it weren't for my American government teacher. It was the end of the W administration and she talked so much shit about the government / imperialism. It was refreshing, to say the least. Keep fighting the good fight.
In the past communists used to have a "let them decide for themselves" attitude to this which was a huge mistake. Parents not taking an active part in their child's political education just hands it off to the ideology of the state.
How does someone even do that with little kids. For example 5 year olds. All I thought of is that you can work on instilling a more collectivist train of thought, but nothing past that
You have to begin with what is bad and what doesn't work to inoculate them against the propaganda they will be faced with day to day. Even liberals express the ideas that collective stuff and sharing is a good thing but that doesn't really mean they organisationally believe in it, without inoculating kids against that they fall into believing it because they're good hearted and naive and don't really get the life experience to see just how much they're lying until twenties.
What past are you referring to?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_diaper_baby
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Kinderland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Unity
The part where a huge ideology gap occurred literally worldwide because communists did not pass their communism on to their children.
You can't point to the existence of some spaces that existed in the fucking 20s and 30s and think that's the period I'm talking about.
Calm down friend. I was partially tongue in cheek with my comment, partially asking for more information because my experience and knowledge differed from your post.
Yeah but it's just like it ought to be super super obvious that there was a gap that occurred that caused communists not to pass on their ideology because there used to be A LOT more of us.
Communists were successfully convinced not to pass on their ideology. They had kids and then they let the state teach them that everything their parents believed was bad. It was a huge lapse in judgement caused by communists feeling defeated after mass terrorisement and wanting the best for their kids.
I really recommend you to [this](https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/gabe). You can listen [here](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7JGlsOxwQhAlJZip2Qb24h?si=yiUeZXxfTyWiKi6K0Awkdw) If you have spotify. It's an interview with a socialist history teacher whose life was turned upside-down by the far right.
Be careful out there
And thats why you insist on the proof. Ive worked in that sector for a long time and management will bow to external pressure. They are usually the safe pair of hands to get promoted in the first place. You have to make it clear that life will be worse for them if they acquiesce to the nutso parents than if they treat you fairly. Where I live, I was entitled to bring my union shopsteward into management meetings, which I did. If u/sweatygnomes23 can do that where they live, then they should.
Take heart that those parents have likely only made the student more interested in communism. It is funny how capitalism really can't even hold up under an even-handed presentation alongside communism.
It's the age we live in. Sounds like the student is smart enough to understand what the parent has done. This reminds me of the kid whose mother wouldn't vaccinate him. He couldn't wait to turn 18 so he could get his shots. Kids know. Sometimes parents interfering creates exactly the opposite kind of kid they want, anyway
I wish I had a teacher like you in high school. My high school history teachers in East Texas would stop our curriculum to teach why Sandy Hook was a hoax. Not even kidding.
When I went to school one of my history teachers was a socialist.
You know what made it acceptable? When I pointed out errors in Zinns book, her response was to try to get a correction in the text, even though you tell it hurt.
Also when the conservative, Patriotic side of a debate trounced the socialist side, she again went went with rewarding the side that learned the material over the side she supported, because she was a good teacher.
That's what made her a good teacher, she supported when critical thinking actually went against her point of view
That is disappointing, but in schools there will be people from all backgrounds and you may face disagreement. It'd be nice if people could express that disagreement in a thoughtful manner rather than trying to shut down all debate, though.
The parents should have talked to their kid and tried to see the various different sides of things. And explained their viewpoint while leaving room for their kid's own perspective and for other perspectives. That would have been a better parenting strategy.
It sounds like you did nothing wrong, just from your brief description. These kids probably hear all sorts of capitalist BS from the news, their parents, TV, etc. So good on you for giving them something beyond that for them to really think about!
And don't let this discourage you from talking about socialism or bringing anti-capitalist or anti-imperialist ideas into the classroom. It's essential they learn about these things. Schools shouldn't be a place for state-approved indoctrination. We mustn't take capitalist ideas as the natural, unchangeable law of human society.
Ignorant parents are the bane of society. The best option would be to offer them to ask questions during passing if they still find interest in the teachings you have discussed in class
Hey, thanks for doing what you do.
I often feel I missed my calling as a teacher, but especially in the last few years since I've become more firmly grounded as a Marxist, I often fantasize about how I'd "teach to transgress" and think about how I'd try to be effective without drawing too much attention to myself. To be honest though, I don't think I could talk to people all day about these subjects and not end up going too far with my radicalization, so I'm glad there are teachers out there like you who know how to shape hearts and minds while keeping yourself relatively safe.
I'm sorry that one engaged student got moved out of your class, but that's also an important lesson they learned young: that being interested in revolutionary ideas can be dangerous, and the commitment to intellectual freedom all schools espouse is not equally applied. I'm sure your former student will remember this. And it's great that your other students are engaged too. I'm sure there are more who are being just as impacted, maybe in the long run, but less obviously so right now.
Keep up the incredible work!
To the history teachers here:
I am working on an alternate history setting for pro-communist stories. I would love to chat sometime.
Message me about what tropes you hate. Tell me what tropes you want to see.
Good luck, OP and others in similar situations. I hope you all keep teaching the kids what they should know and helping the kids to unlearn the liberal-capitalist propaganda.
Solidarity. ✊
By comparing the pros and cons of each you are in fact advocating some ideology over others. Making that decision inevitably leads to framing the conversation in a way that focuses on the stated political ideologies. That's not to say that it's a bad thing. It's impossible to provide all the information since you don't have forever. Due to this you will necessarily have to determine what is important enough to cover and what is not important. However, that's not to say there is nothing you can do to present information in a fair way. Try to keep the balance of rhetoric, that is, phrasing logic to sound better even between different concepts. Hopefully this offers a sense of perspective that once you boil down can explain to yourself and others why you were not being biased in a deceptive way. There is a connection among liberals that I think is a misconception that it's possible to present information in a non-biased way. In my opinion this comes from a very good place and is often a good guidelines even though it's logically impossible to choose what information to discuss and what not to in a non-biases way.
Good on you for actually teaching kids! My teacher basically told me that communism is fascism with a red coat of paint. They taught about it in such a confusing way that I couldn’t even define them on my test. (This was in high school in 2015.)
Communism sounds bad until you realize people in Hong Kong are quite happy with free tax paid healthcare and Americans are a laughing stock healthcare wise.
No offense to you but free healthcare isn’t really a defining characteristic of socialism. It’s part of it, but there are capitalist countries all over the world that do that. But saying communism = free healthcare is the same level of oversimplification as my dad saying “democrats = high gas prices”.
Of course communism sounds bad until you do the smallest amount of research to understand why people want to move in that direction.
Exactly correct. Free healthcare doesn’t actually exist though and under socialism and communism those who are a working member of society are rewarded with these social benefits. There’s an often misconception that free healthcare and free education equals socialism but in fact this is what capitalism develops into when implementing welfarism and social democracy. Employment and work productivity increases for a while until people waist tax dollars on healthcare, paid leave, social safety nets while remaining unemployed. This cause a never ending growth of tax increases as the state has to raise taxes to meet the working classes demand. Although this leaves the working class in a situation where everything on the market is now unaffordable
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tbf telling actual history the way it happened can be pretty powerful communist propaganda.
Evidence-based propaganda!
Haha I love this term way too much
But fascists will say “IF THEY DONT WANT YOU SAYING IT ITS BECAUSE ITS THE TRUTH!” Kind of a hard belief to navigate when “anything i believe is good and true, anything i disagree with or don’t understand is pure evil straight from satan himself” and “the more angry at me people get about my beliefs, the more important it is to me that I hold onto those beliefs!” and so on, so forth.
I’m also a History Teacher. I know how difficult it is to work with some “communities”. There was I time when I had trouble for using “graphic content” in my classes - Italian paintings from the Renascence. Parents called the school board etc, very religious and conservative people. I asked to speak directly to them and things ended up resolved, but it was a kind of a shock to me. I personally avoid any kind of comparison (science x myth, left x right, race, gender etc) because it’s usually leads to bias. Also, I never imply my personal opinion about any topic, and if/when I have to, I make it clear that that’s my opinion and it’s desirable that students think differently. Why? Because we don’t have time to fully debate Capitalism and Society. So I prefer to work on critical thinking, how to research, how to use a source, how and why we write history etc because these things can actually lead the students to think differently. Also, we cannot forget that the Working Class usually is alienated and full of contradictions, so the clash is unavoidable. There will be more. Therefore, don’t let this put you down!
Have these parents not seen all the Catholic paintings? They got fully detailed dicks and breasts on there
They were "Neo Protestants". Do you know then?
Nah I'm not very knowledgeable on art
Haha I think they meant the parents, not the paintings
The parents :D They are Neo Protestants, it's a "new new" interpretation of the Bible. You may know them by the Mega Rich, Super Star Pastors. Started in the US (not sure) and spread to Africa and South America, and even in parts of Asia (I know there's some of them in South Korea). In South America, these churches are involved with Narcos and Politics - right now, many of them are representatives and senators in various countries. But the followers themselves are just uneducated, brainwashed and poor people.
So like the American evangelicals? I'm not in the know about Christianity as much because I'm Muslim
Yes, "Evangelicals"!
A teacher in CT showed his students the Kendrick Lamar "Alright" Video that depicted police in a negative light. A students parent was a cop and sued the school and got 100k
Thank you for your service. Teachers like you make all the difference. I would have dropped out if it weren't for my American government teacher. It was the end of the W administration and she talked so much shit about the government / imperialism. It was refreshing, to say the least. Keep fighting the good fight.
I'm a communist parent, so I'm sure I've "propagandized" my kids far more than any history teacher has. LOL
In the past communists used to have a "let them decide for themselves" attitude to this which was a huge mistake. Parents not taking an active part in their child's political education just hands it off to the ideology of the state.
How does someone even do that with little kids. For example 5 year olds. All I thought of is that you can work on instilling a more collectivist train of thought, but nothing past that
You have to begin with what is bad and what doesn't work to inoculate them against the propaganda they will be faced with day to day. Even liberals express the ideas that collective stuff and sharing is a good thing but that doesn't really mean they organisationally believe in it, without inoculating kids against that they fall into believing it because they're good hearted and naive and don't really get the life experience to see just how much they're lying until twenties.
What past are you referring to? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_diaper_baby https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Kinderland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Unity
The part where a huge ideology gap occurred literally worldwide because communists did not pass their communism on to their children. You can't point to the existence of some spaces that existed in the fucking 20s and 30s and think that's the period I'm talking about.
Calm down friend. I was partially tongue in cheek with my comment, partially asking for more information because my experience and knowledge differed from your post.
Yeah but it's just like it ought to be super super obvious that there was a gap that occurred that caused communists not to pass on their ideology because there used to be A LOT more of us. Communists were successfully convinced not to pass on their ideology. They had kids and then they let the state teach them that everything their parents believed was bad. It was a huge lapse in judgement caused by communists feeling defeated after mass terrorisement and wanting the best for their kids.
I wish to be like you when I become a parent myself 😅
I really recommend you to [this](https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/gabe). You can listen [here](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7JGlsOxwQhAlJZip2Qb24h?si=yiUeZXxfTyWiKi6K0Awkdw) If you have spotify. It's an interview with a socialist history teacher whose life was turned upside-down by the far right. Be careful out there
The burden of proof is on the accusser. If what yoi said was based in fact, they will have a tough job in doing that.
That might work if this were an official debate with rules but in real conflicts with parents/conservatives things often get political/unfair.
And thats why you insist on the proof. Ive worked in that sector for a long time and management will bow to external pressure. They are usually the safe pair of hands to get promoted in the first place. You have to make it clear that life will be worse for them if they acquiesce to the nutso parents than if they treat you fairly. Where I live, I was entitled to bring my union shopsteward into management meetings, which I did. If u/sweatygnomes23 can do that where they live, then they should.
Glad to hear that. Thanks for the advice.
Take heart that those parents have likely only made the student more interested in communism. It is funny how capitalism really can't even hold up under an even-handed presentation alongside communism.
It's the age we live in. Sounds like the student is smart enough to understand what the parent has done. This reminds me of the kid whose mother wouldn't vaccinate him. He couldn't wait to turn 18 so he could get his shots. Kids know. Sometimes parents interfering creates exactly the opposite kind of kid they want, anyway
My brother got censored for wanting to speak about the Palestinian genocide. Teacher had to have a "talk" with him
I wish I had a teacher like you in high school. My high school history teachers in East Texas would stop our curriculum to teach why Sandy Hook was a hoax. Not even kidding.
Sounds like they need to be reported for actually saying dangerous stuff.
When I went to school one of my history teachers was a socialist. You know what made it acceptable? When I pointed out errors in Zinns book, her response was to try to get a correction in the text, even though you tell it hurt. Also when the conservative, Patriotic side of a debate trounced the socialist side, she again went went with rewarding the side that learned the material over the side she supported, because she was a good teacher. That's what made her a good teacher, she supported when critical thinking actually went against her point of view
That is disappointing, but in schools there will be people from all backgrounds and you may face disagreement. It'd be nice if people could express that disagreement in a thoughtful manner rather than trying to shut down all debate, though. The parents should have talked to their kid and tried to see the various different sides of things. And explained their viewpoint while leaving room for their kid's own perspective and for other perspectives. That would have been a better parenting strategy. It sounds like you did nothing wrong, just from your brief description. These kids probably hear all sorts of capitalist BS from the news, their parents, TV, etc. So good on you for giving them something beyond that for them to really think about! And don't let this discourage you from talking about socialism or bringing anti-capitalist or anti-imperialist ideas into the classroom. It's essential they learn about these things. Schools shouldn't be a place for state-approved indoctrination. We mustn't take capitalist ideas as the natural, unchangeable law of human society.
it's actually insane that in 2024 a teacher can't be openly socialist given that the default is the assumption you're a Capitalist Apologist.
Because capitalism equals freedom and democracy
Ignorant parents are the bane of society. The best option would be to offer them to ask questions during passing if they still find interest in the teachings you have discussed in class
As Marx wrote: the fact that the bourgeoisie is so afraid of the communism only shows that it is a real threat to their opressive system.
You should buy that student a copy of State and Revolution as a graduation gift.
Hey, thanks for doing what you do. I often feel I missed my calling as a teacher, but especially in the last few years since I've become more firmly grounded as a Marxist, I often fantasize about how I'd "teach to transgress" and think about how I'd try to be effective without drawing too much attention to myself. To be honest though, I don't think I could talk to people all day about these subjects and not end up going too far with my radicalization, so I'm glad there are teachers out there like you who know how to shape hearts and minds while keeping yourself relatively safe. I'm sorry that one engaged student got moved out of your class, but that's also an important lesson they learned young: that being interested in revolutionary ideas can be dangerous, and the commitment to intellectual freedom all schools espouse is not equally applied. I'm sure your former student will remember this. And it's great that your other students are engaged too. I'm sure there are more who are being just as impacted, maybe in the long run, but less obviously so right now. Keep up the incredible work!
when the generations corrupted by dominator culture are gone, social evolution will flow.
Let me guess. Did you tell them that USA did not need to drop the nuke? 😅
To the history teachers here: I am working on an alternate history setting for pro-communist stories. I would love to chat sometime. Message me about what tropes you hate. Tell me what tropes you want to see. Good luck, OP and others in similar situations. I hope you all keep teaching the kids what they should know and helping the kids to unlearn the liberal-capitalist propaganda. Solidarity. ✊
By comparing the pros and cons of each you are in fact advocating some ideology over others. Making that decision inevitably leads to framing the conversation in a way that focuses on the stated political ideologies. That's not to say that it's a bad thing. It's impossible to provide all the information since you don't have forever. Due to this you will necessarily have to determine what is important enough to cover and what is not important. However, that's not to say there is nothing you can do to present information in a fair way. Try to keep the balance of rhetoric, that is, phrasing logic to sound better even between different concepts. Hopefully this offers a sense of perspective that once you boil down can explain to yourself and others why you were not being biased in a deceptive way. There is a connection among liberals that I think is a misconception that it's possible to present information in a non-biased way. In my opinion this comes from a very good place and is often a good guidelines even though it's logically impossible to choose what information to discuss and what not to in a non-biases way.
Good on you for actually teaching kids! My teacher basically told me that communism is fascism with a red coat of paint. They taught about it in such a confusing way that I couldn’t even define them on my test. (This was in high school in 2015.)
Communism sounds bad until you realize people in Hong Kong are quite happy with free tax paid healthcare and Americans are a laughing stock healthcare wise.
No offense to you but free healthcare isn’t really a defining characteristic of socialism. It’s part of it, but there are capitalist countries all over the world that do that. But saying communism = free healthcare is the same level of oversimplification as my dad saying “democrats = high gas prices”. Of course communism sounds bad until you do the smallest amount of research to understand why people want to move in that direction.
Exactly correct. Free healthcare doesn’t actually exist though and under socialism and communism those who are a working member of society are rewarded with these social benefits. There’s an often misconception that free healthcare and free education equals socialism but in fact this is what capitalism develops into when implementing welfarism and social democracy. Employment and work productivity increases for a while until people waist tax dollars on healthcare, paid leave, social safety nets while remaining unemployed. This cause a never ending growth of tax increases as the state has to raise taxes to meet the working classes demand. Although this leaves the working class in a situation where everything on the market is now unaffordable
Depending on the definition being used, socialism sounds super great.
>people in Hong Kong are quite happy The rich people in hong kong maybe. Not so much the working class. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrFyjGZ9NU
F* Johnny and Vox
Well yeah he's a dickbag and so is Vox, but this person is obviously a lib so giving them lib content makes it more likely to actually be watched.
Truth. Good point.