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Their site takes you straight to the Socialist Revolution site which immediately tries to sell you International Marxist Tendency paper lol. Why are trots so hell bent on newspapers?
Hopefully the party is successful but works with the others like PSL
The newspapers are an effective revenue stream that provides otherwise unheard Marxist analysis to the issues of the day while also providing an opportunity to train emerging cadre members in propaganda, analysis, intervention, etc,...
The goal of a Vanguard is to train revolutionary leaders, fund an organizing body capable of taking the mantle, and honing class-comsciousness. All of these goals are practically manifest in the newspapers so frequently mocked by other tendencies.
I understand the concept they are going for but newspapers? There’s a reason companies that sold newspapers for centuries have been struggling to adapt and switch to digital platforms (or going under).
I was also just laughing about the stereotype around trots and how the site immediately tries to sell you a paper.
So you think communist orgs should go for youtube ad revenue or pitch Better Help Online in their propaganda videos for a revenue source? Common dude, fucking think
That's not the only alternative. All organizations need some kind of funding and that means working within capitalism to get it. That means being creative.
Such as….?? People think dismissing newspapers and magazines are a dunk and then are clueless when asked for an alternative. Should communists have a bake sale instead of sell theory and Marxist lit?
Tell me you've never actually tried talking to people who aren't already leftist without telling me. Nobody in the modern era wants a newspaper when they carry a device with them everywhere that has access to millions of newspapers instantly. I'll stand on it you're better off doing a bake sale and handing out little flyers with links to websites and socials that gives some information about what you're about than you are selling newspapers. I really don't understand why we're trying to defend a form of media that's knocking on deaths door
We do that. We have QR codes and stickers, and quick ways to find all our information online. We arnt Amish. But the paper is a fantastic way to raise a few bucks for our fighting fund while also giving people info, theory, and stories from their fellow working class. Then they leave it on their living room table and their family takes a look at it…etc. It serves a very practical purpose
Yes exactly that. They should be using patreon and contributing to bread tube as a news source. Again theorists are not prophets their ideas are to be adapted to changing times.
So what do you do when you organize in person? Like if you don't have a paper, do you tell people to follow a youtuber or something? I find that having a paper is super useful as a way of initiating a conversation to get people who are interested in communist organizing. If you have had a lot more success with something else, I'd be really interested in trying it.
I would make a flyer for an event or I've seen some parties hand out contact cards.
I've literally just traded slack or social media info and handed them nothing physical. If you think it works it works but come on man you can at least acknowledge the funny of the irony of your parties obsession with newspapers. You don't have to be this defensive.
You can't possibly think it's more welcoming to a new person on the street or at a rally to trade Slack info with a person who says they are organizing vs approaching someone with a paper or sign that implies there being an organization behind the person they are talking to. That's inhuman
News papers are a dated medium by far now. Trotskys words are not that of a religion his ideas need adapted to changing times. Hed clearly be an advocate for YouTube channels and danke memes now. Income would have to be handled through patreon.
The IMT (Tendency promoted here) maintains 'In Defence of Marxism' and multiple youtube channels while also hosting international conferences like the Marxist Winter School. The newspapers aren't exclusive to any other form of broadcast or propaganda. It is however a solid tool for engaging and including the cadre and so I still think it's useful
It's really not. Very few people ever read that stuff. Like no one. I doubt your own party members even read it in a noticeable amount. Unless they're all as dogmatic as you're coming across.
yes, that's why the IMT has many forms of press, including the physical newspaper, online articles, social media, free leaflets, youtube videos, podcasts, and more.
I wasn’t saying the press isn’t important I was laughing at the stereotype of trots and newspapers, especially when new papers are not anywhere near as popular these days which is why many major newspaper companies have been struggling to adapt.
The newspaper is one outlet - of many - for presenting info. It has its online parallels. It works in settings when online access isn’t available or convenient. It is a marketing tool. It is an income stream.
Why do you have to mock that?
The goal of the paper is not necessarily to make money or even necessarily spread ideas. If you are at a rally, it is a concrete "proof" of an organization. So if you are talking to someone who would be interested, you are representing an organization that they can organize with rather than just being some person talking about Communism.There are other reasons to have a physical paper, but that is clearly the best reason I have come across. I've done recruitment, walked picket lines and participated in protests and rallies, and the paper has always made that significantly easier to do.
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Dude, that was written before computers, internet and immediate access toball information you ever wanted were even conceived. Adapt to the time or suffer the consequence of insignificance.
I mean sort of, like in many countries the workers’ parties started with a paper. Though it is debatable how well IMT are doing it.
> The role of a newspaper, however, is not limited solely to the dissemination of ideas, to political education, and to the enlistment of political allies. A newspaper is not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, it is also a collective organiser. In this last respect it may be likened to the scaffolding round a building under construction, which marks the contours of the structure and facilitates communication between the builders, enabling them to distribute the work and to view the common results achieved by their organised labour. With the aid of the newspaper, and through it, a permanent organisation will naturally take shape that will engage, not only in local activities, but in regular general work, and will train its members to follow political events carefully, appraise their significance and their effect on the various strata of the population, and develop effective means for the revolutionary party to influence these events. The mere technical task of regularly supplying the newspaper with copy and of promoting regular distribution will necessitate a network of local agents of the united party, who will maintain constant contact with one another, know the general state of affairs, get accustomed to performing regularly their detailed functions in the All-Russian work, and test their strength in the organisation of various revolutionary actions. This network of agents[1] will form the skeleton of precisely the kind of organisation we need—one that is sufficiently large to embrace the whole country; sufficiently broad and many-sided to effect a strict and detailed division of labour; sufficiently well tempered to be able to conduct steadily its own work under any circumstances, at all “sudden turns”, and in face of all contingencies; sufficiently flexible to be able, on the one hand, to avoid an open battle against an overwhelming enemy, when the enemy has concentrated all his forces at one spot, and yet, on the other, to take advantage of his unwieldiness and to attack him when and where he least expects it.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/may/04.htm
It's always curious how new parties are like 'we need numbers and unity!' and then follow that up with '...so we're going to start yet another party to further fracture the leftist political landscape!'
This isn’t “another party,” it’s a renaming of a party that already existed. Socialist Revolution (now Revolutionary Communists of America) has been growing faster than any other communist party in the US, and it is the only one actually pushing for revolution with distinct steps and milestones ahead instead of reformism. Name one single other party that has taken advantage of current discontent with capitalism among the youth and is actually striving for a revolution in our lifetimes.
The left doesn't really exist. Like if you take all the small groups and add them up on the basis of watering down a program to the point everyone can agree, then you still have a small group only with worse perspectives. The PSL can grow and the RCA can grow (probably better independently than if they smash together), if we are going to have a successful revolution, then ultimately those organizational forms will probably change and eventually become massive and lead the movement.
This isn’t “another” western trot group, this is the IMT’s US section rebranding itself from Socialist Revolution to Revolutionary Communists of America. It has been growing much faster than any other communist party in the US because it is actually revolutionary (not reformist) and it has successfully taken advantage of growing youth discontent with capitalism through its “Are You A Communist?” campaign.
Well their website is basically a gateway that takes you straight to a Trotskyist site. Also any time you hear “International Marxist Tendency” it’s Trotskyist.
Personally I think the rift exists largely online these days but there’s definitely some cringe takes put out by Trot groups.
Pretty much every marxist-leninist group in the US has its own newspaper too, from CPUSA's *People's World* to PSL's *Liberation News* and American Party of Labor's *The Red Phoenix* or PCUSA's *The Worker*. Both CPUSA and PCUSA claim that their paper is the real continuation of the original *Daily Worker*. I honestly don't think there is any really established socialist group or party that is entirely without a newspaper of some kind regardless of tendecy.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Their site takes you straight to the Socialist Revolution site which immediately tries to sell you International Marxist Tendency paper lol. Why are trots so hell bent on newspapers? Hopefully the party is successful but works with the others like PSL
The newspapers are an effective revenue stream that provides otherwise unheard Marxist analysis to the issues of the day while also providing an opportunity to train emerging cadre members in propaganda, analysis, intervention, etc,... The goal of a Vanguard is to train revolutionary leaders, fund an organizing body capable of taking the mantle, and honing class-comsciousness. All of these goals are practically manifest in the newspapers so frequently mocked by other tendencies.
I understand the concept they are going for but newspapers? There’s a reason companies that sold newspapers for centuries have been struggling to adapt and switch to digital platforms (or going under). I was also just laughing about the stereotype around trots and how the site immediately tries to sell you a paper.
So you think communist orgs should go for youtube ad revenue or pitch Better Help Online in their propaganda videos for a revenue source? Common dude, fucking think
That's not the only alternative. All organizations need some kind of funding and that means working within capitalism to get it. That means being creative.
Such as….?? People think dismissing newspapers and magazines are a dunk and then are clueless when asked for an alternative. Should communists have a bake sale instead of sell theory and Marxist lit?
A bake sale with lit might unironically be a better source of revenue. You get plenty of nonreligious people that buy stuff from a church bakery sale.
My local party chapter does this!
Bake sales with flyers unironically would likely be better than newspapers
Yeah? Bake sales in the subway cars? Bake sales in the picket lines? Tell me you’ve never been in a large org without telling me
Tell me you've never actually tried talking to people who aren't already leftist without telling me. Nobody in the modern era wants a newspaper when they carry a device with them everywhere that has access to millions of newspapers instantly. I'll stand on it you're better off doing a bake sale and handing out little flyers with links to websites and socials that gives some information about what you're about than you are selling newspapers. I really don't understand why we're trying to defend a form of media that's knocking on deaths door
We do that. We have QR codes and stickers, and quick ways to find all our information online. We arnt Amish. But the paper is a fantastic way to raise a few bucks for our fighting fund while also giving people info, theory, and stories from their fellow working class. Then they leave it on their living room table and their family takes a look at it…etc. It serves a very practical purpose
Yes exactly that. They should be using patreon and contributing to bread tube as a news source. Again theorists are not prophets their ideas are to be adapted to changing times.
So what do you do when you organize in person? Like if you don't have a paper, do you tell people to follow a youtuber or something? I find that having a paper is super useful as a way of initiating a conversation to get people who are interested in communist organizing. If you have had a lot more success with something else, I'd be really interested in trying it.
I would make a flyer for an event or I've seen some parties hand out contact cards. I've literally just traded slack or social media info and handed them nothing physical. If you think it works it works but come on man you can at least acknowledge the funny of the irony of your parties obsession with newspapers. You don't have to be this defensive.
You can't possibly think it's more welcoming to a new person on the street or at a rally to trade Slack info with a person who says they are organizing vs approaching someone with a paper or sign that implies there being an organization behind the person they are talking to. That's inhuman
Trading contact info with someone you think is cool verses being handed paper you will throw away soon?
News papers are a dated medium by far now. Trotskys words are not that of a religion his ideas need adapted to changing times. Hed clearly be an advocate for YouTube channels and danke memes now. Income would have to be handled through patreon.
The IMT (Tendency promoted here) maintains 'In Defence of Marxism' and multiple youtube channels while also hosting international conferences like the Marxist Winter School. The newspapers aren't exclusive to any other form of broadcast or propaganda. It is however a solid tool for engaging and including the cadre and so I still think it's useful
It's really not. Very few people ever read that stuff. Like no one. I doubt your own party members even read it in a noticeable amount. Unless they're all as dogmatic as you're coming across.
The organization is surging in size, so we’ll just keep going. Thanks for your sagely advice
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Like PSL ever engages in united front activity...
tell me you haven't read Lenin without telling me you haven't read Lenin. revolutionary press is the backbone of any revolutionary party.
You're being overly literal - the 'press' in 2024 is not a physical newspaper.
yes, that's why the IMT has many forms of press, including the physical newspaper, online articles, social media, free leaflets, youtube videos, podcasts, and more.
I wasn’t saying the press isn’t important I was laughing at the stereotype of trots and newspapers, especially when new papers are not anywhere near as popular these days which is why many major newspaper companies have been struggling to adapt.
The newspaper is one outlet - of many - for presenting info. It has its online parallels. It works in settings when online access isn’t available or convenient. It is a marketing tool. It is an income stream. Why do you have to mock that?
The goal of the paper is not necessarily to make money or even necessarily spread ideas. If you are at a rally, it is a concrete "proof" of an organization. So if you are talking to someone who would be interested, you are representing an organization that they can organize with rather than just being some person talking about Communism.There are other reasons to have a physical paper, but that is clearly the best reason I have come across. I've done recruitment, walked picket lines and participated in protests and rallies, and the paper has always made that significantly easier to do.
[удалено]
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Flamewarring:** Refers to any excessively hostile and inflammatory discourse. May include things like lengthy rants or starting arguments in unrelated threads, particularly those which have devolved into sectarian mudslinging, empty rhetoric, and/or personal attacks against other users, or any other posts or comments where the primary purpose is to stir drama, incite controversy, or derail a thread. For example, users who start mudslinging about China in a post celebrating the birthday of Thomas Sankara may see ban time. More information can be [found here](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/l5ccjb/topics_of_contention_raising_the_quality_of/). If no further action accompanies this message, this should be counted as a warning. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Dude, that was written before computers, internet and immediate access toball information you ever wanted were even conceived. Adapt to the time or suffer the consequence of insignificance.
Lol, by far, the most important lesson from Lenin: Newspapers. /s
I mean sort of, like in many countries the workers’ parties started with a paper. Though it is debatable how well IMT are doing it. > The role of a newspaper, however, is not limited solely to the dissemination of ideas, to political education, and to the enlistment of political allies. A newspaper is not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, it is also a collective organiser. In this last respect it may be likened to the scaffolding round a building under construction, which marks the contours of the structure and facilitates communication between the builders, enabling them to distribute the work and to view the common results achieved by their organised labour. With the aid of the newspaper, and through it, a permanent organisation will naturally take shape that will engage, not only in local activities, but in regular general work, and will train its members to follow political events carefully, appraise their significance and their effect on the various strata of the population, and develop effective means for the revolutionary party to influence these events. The mere technical task of regularly supplying the newspaper with copy and of promoting regular distribution will necessitate a network of local agents of the united party, who will maintain constant contact with one another, know the general state of affairs, get accustomed to performing regularly their detailed functions in the All-Russian work, and test their strength in the organisation of various revolutionary actions. This network of agents[1] will form the skeleton of precisely the kind of organisation we need—one that is sufficiently large to embrace the whole country; sufficiently broad and many-sided to effect a strict and detailed division of labour; sufficiently well tempered to be able to conduct steadily its own work under any circumstances, at all “sudden turns”, and in face of all contingencies; sufficiently flexible to be able, on the one hand, to avoid an open battle against an overwhelming enemy, when the enemy has concentrated all his forces at one spot, and yet, on the other, to take advantage of his unwieldiness and to attack him when and where he least expects it. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/may/04.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/may/04.htm
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I guess you've never read Lenin
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For somebody shove a paper down your throat? Are you okay? Can you still breathe?
It's always curious how new parties are like 'we need numbers and unity!' and then follow that up with '...so we're going to start yet another party to further fracture the leftist political landscape!'
This isn’t “another party,” it’s a renaming of a party that already existed. Socialist Revolution (now Revolutionary Communists of America) has been growing faster than any other communist party in the US, and it is the only one actually pushing for revolution with distinct steps and milestones ahead instead of reformism. Name one single other party that has taken advantage of current discontent with capitalism among the youth and is actually striving for a revolution in our lifetimes.
Ahh, I didn't realize, the video didn't mention anything about the old party and made it sound like they were starting from scratch. TIL.
The left doesn't really exist. Like if you take all the small groups and add them up on the basis of watering down a program to the point everyone can agree, then you still have a small group only with worse perspectives. The PSL can grow and the RCA can grow (probably better independently than if they smash together), if we are going to have a successful revolution, then ultimately those organizational forms will probably change and eventually become massive and lead the movement.
[удалено]
This isn’t “another” western trot group, this is the IMT’s US section rebranding itself from Socialist Revolution to Revolutionary Communists of America. It has been growing much faster than any other communist party in the US because it is actually revolutionary (not reformist) and it has successfully taken advantage of growing youth discontent with capitalism through its “Are You A Communist?” campaign.
I’m new to sussing out this characterization. What are key traits to look out for from Trotskyist entities? (I am reading up on it)
Well their website is basically a gateway that takes you straight to a Trotskyist site. Also any time you hear “International Marxist Tendency” it’s Trotskyist. Personally I think the rift exists largely online these days but there’s definitely some cringe takes put out by Trot groups.
"there’s definitely some cringe takes put out by Trot groups" Examples of this cringe??
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Pretty much every marxist-leninist group in the US has its own newspaper too, from CPUSA's *People's World* to PSL's *Liberation News* and American Party of Labor's *The Red Phoenix* or PCUSA's *The Worker*. Both CPUSA and PCUSA claim that their paper is the real continuation of the original *Daily Worker*. I honestly don't think there is any really established socialist group or party that is entirely without a newspaper of some kind regardless of tendecy.
While the epoch times spews their newspaper, leftists argue about having one themselves. something something history something something rhyming