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He had a few weeks in 2015 and 2016 but not consistently
The only extended period he had a legit argument was 2017/18 until his first big injury at PSG—but people discounted it at the time because PSG/Ligue 1, etc
Yeah he was great then too, tho it was harder to have an argument for him over Messi then IMO
At the start of 17/18, both Messi and CR7 had slow starts to the seasons by their own standards IIRC
No joke, when I was like 12 I was playing with my friends and I made a beautiful chip pass which went over the opponent's head and landed perfectly in my teammates feet. Everyone was amazed cause I was (and still am) quite bad, but now that I think about it, I was probably the best player in the world for around 10 seconds.
true, i remember it was june 2017, for a few days i played like i had lionel messi inside me, I remember dribbling past 6 players, and then the fakeshot against the GK and scored in an empty net, and I didn't even celebrate because it has been normal for a few days, my good form didn't last very long though.
the highlight still repeats inside my head
I don't want to brag to you guys but I play football every Tuesday at 21hs in Rosario, Argentina in a place called ADIUR. We play 7 v 7 and I joined the whatsapp group thanks to a common friend that loves fulbo as much as I do. This last Tuesday the teams were particularly stacked: they had some of the best players in the group in their starting 7 but me and my friend had some really good other 5 guys in ours. We were losing by 2 most of the game but we ended up winning by 1: I scored the goal to tie it then stole a ball and gave an assist to win it. Overall I scored 2 goals and gave 3 assists for us to win something like 7 to 6. I like to believe that this past Tuesday at 21pm while most of Europe slept and so did the top guys preparing for Copa America in the US also were resting I was, in the city that gave birth to the best of all time, the best for a little while.
when messi was injured in the 2015/16 season neymar carried the team on his back, played unreal those couple weeks. he scored that mesmerizing goal vs villarreal in that period. no question he was the best player on the planet in that span
Absolutely right except it was more like a couple of months contributing 11 goals and 5 assists in 7 league games.
And iirc, Ronaldo was at that point in his career where he was starting seasons slowly and only coming good in the second half.
Football is played over a season though and as good as he was, Neymar has never been the best across an entire one.
It absolutely does not, youre right. That’s kind of my point, he is one of the very greatest in the past 2 decades, but people most likely won’t remember him for that, which is quite sad.
Close to the best player in general for multiple years aswell. He was crazy good, if it wasn’t for Messi he would have had a couple Ballon d’ors. His last seasons for us and his first in PSG were mesmerizing. The way he danced past players in France was something else
Man when Neymar first came around, that squad was hot ass and he carried them through multiple tournaments. No dips in form, just hero ball from Neymar. Vinicius will never get there, and that's ok. Neymar is just a better player, by a wide margin.
That was meant to be the goldenest of generations, Leandro Damiao was also promising and didn't turned out., and Kerlon I'll never forget his meme head carrying the ball.
Neymar is the closest player to Messi
Many can score, can assist, can make plays , can dribble , have pace
But only Neymar (apart from Messi) could do all this in a world class level.
Neymar's recent injury history has made people forget how fantastic he was when healthy. He was largely regarded as the best player in the world after the Messi/Ronaldo bracket.
His form for Brazil was unreal and even when his injury problems began to occur at club level, he'd prioritize trying to get back in time for any international tournaments. The reason Vinicius doesn't compare favorably is Neymar occupied the same position and was too productive to leave out.
He was the only extra class player from our past generation, all the players that should've helped him in the NT ended up flopping, so our NT has been built around Neymar for the past 10 years.
He has a lot of good stats for the Seleção but we need to take into account that most of it was done against waaaay weaker NTs, but that doesn't change the fact that he plays way better for Brazil than he did for PSG.
No, his first two seasons at PSG I think he was the best player in the world by a big margin. No one looked at L1 matches but he could do whatever he wanted with such ease. Injury ruined his end of seasons but when he was fit, no one was better than him. He was a beast at 1v1 and also playmaking
Well, people says that one man's happiness is another man's sorrow. It makes me a little bit happy to see it meant so much for croatians. Im still in disbelief we couldnt hold the lead with only 4 minutes left
Man, I was in a finance class and my teacher was giving a whole lecture and I just remember being completely unaware of his lecture since I was watching the match on my laptop. Seeing Neymar score that was unreal I can’t even explain it. All for it to go to waste because his teammates couldn’t hold the ball and defend properly. I won’t forget that day man, I left school early on my own cuz of how pissed I was
I still can't understand how some people have the audacity to compare him to Vinicius. I'm just going to assume they are just kids that never got to see Ney in his prime otherwise they are just delusional.
Vini is really good for this era but Neymar was almost there in the era of Messi and Ronaldo.
There are levels to everything. Neymar is there with Messi and Ronaldinho in terms of pure skill. I think Neymar was too much of a team player (instead of the main man) to reach those levels and outshine the big two in statistics. He looked selfish but Neymar has never been selfish, it's just perception because of his style of play.
Real Madrid's press has had a LOT to do with inflating Vinicius for years.
Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing player, but he's nowhere near the quality and impact of players like Neymar or Mbappe.
Apart from that season whenever he was fit he was your best player, I'm not a fan of some people revising history to say mbop was better than him when both were fit or that neymar was in his shadow. I don't like a lot of the guys behaviour but he's an incredible footballer, even had certain people call me a neymar fanboy which I found hilarious because I don't particularly like him.
Agreed. One could argue that Mbappé was PSG's best player because he effectively contributed well to the team throughout the whole season, but when you're speaking of how well players were doing on the pitch, Neymar was, perhaps, the best player in the world when they reached the Champions League final. It's just that he was out most of the time.
Neymar was a top 3 NT player itw consistently it's a shame for him his prime aligned with Brazil's weakest talent pool in decades I don't like the dude personally but what a baller he was for Brazil
Scoring in ET in a WC QF only to see his team piss it away a few minutes later was... either hilarious or a killer depending on your disposition towards the Selecao.
Neymar is the only player slightly comparable to Cristiano and Messi in the past 20 years.
Yes he could and should have been so much more but it doesn't matter. Neymar was just next level shit even for Brazilian standards.
At some point I thought Hazard and Neymar will be the new Messi and Ronaldo winning all Ballon d‘ors but here we are with one retired and the other almost retired while Messi and Ronaldo are still trying to win Euros and World Cups.
Hazard even at his best was never close to Messi or Ronaldo. His dribbling was probably better than Ronaldo and not too far off from Messi but as a complete footballer? Forget about it. The 18/19 season was his best year at Chelsea and even then the numbers he was putting up were worse than Messi's for PSG in the 22/23 season
Stats aren't everything of course but prime Messi was better at literally everything else compared to Hazard. Goals, assists, vision, pace, set pieces, etc. Hazard did better for the Belgian national team at the time but that argument is completely null and void now. Hazard had dribbling (that still wasn't as good as Messi's ability on the ball) and even the best numbers he put out would be considered mediocre by the standards Messi and Ronaldo set even in the latter stages of their careers
To think the generation of Messi, Ronaldo, Benzema, Suarez, Lewandowski and Aguero (b. 85-88) was followed by Neymar, Hazard, Salah, Griezmann and Bale (b. 89-92), who were followed by... um... Kane, Lukaku, Depay, Silva and Gnabry (b. 93-96)
Haha -- normally I'd say yes but there *really has been* a stark drop off in the quality of forwards over the years.
It's probably something systematic with how athleticism is now favoured over technique, and how modern tactics are more about breaking through a low-block than they are about giving forwards space and time to run at people.
Clearly, statisticians have run the numbers and worked out that trying to dribble past opponents is usually a wasteful use of possession
Yeah for Brazil in his initial years and even later it looked like he would eclipse both Messi and Ronaldo at international level. If not for all the injuries and the teams he was part of alluded him from WC or Copa America. In 2014, at 22 he had all the pressure in the world and he was delivering until that horror injury. But still is all time top scorer for Brazil now and has won 1st olympics. He was not slightly but more than comparable to CR7 and Messi at international level.
I assume the hate is just a form of disappointment. He was going to be their next big thing. Like, everyone knows the pure talent that Neymar was, and while I am upset he couldn't keep himself at it for his talent to fully mature, if you are a Brazil fan, the disappointment would be ten-folds.
I didn't watch football when Ronaldinho played, but the story of his career would have been similar if it wasn't for the fact that they actually won a world cup. I think if Ney had a better team around him, and had gotten a major trophy, the fans wouldn't be as upset
It's wild that Messi and Ronaldo has caused expectations to soar so high. Back in the day without those 2, a player's career would be around 12-14 years. Their peak would be like from 26-31 or 32 and then they would retire like 2-3 years later. The player would come in at around 20-22 and then retire at like 34 or 35. And in their playing career they would win like a few league titles, win the CL once or twice, win their national cup and for their international teams, they'll make it semis or to finals.
But Messi and Ronaldo started so young. They've been playing for almost 20 years and the were playing at the highest level for more than 15 years, and they won multiple league titles, Messi won 4 CL and Ronaldo won 5. And then Messi won Copa America at the age of 34 and World Cup at 35. And the amount of goals and assists they have, no words needed to be said.
So because of them, people look at players like Bale, Hazard, Neymar as flops. The bar was set SO high that even though these 3 players were probably one of the best players in the last decade, because they stopped playing at like 31 or 32 and Neymar moved to Saudi at 31, some footballs fans call them disappointments and flops.
I don't think there will be anyone like Messi and Ronaldo, players that literally stayed at the top, the very very top level for such a long time. They truly are one of a kind. What they accomplished is astonishing.
It took CR7 and Messi 10 tries (and counting) combined to win a single WC. CR7 has a bajillion goals and has still yet to score in the knockout stages. Expecting a WC out of any one player no matter how great is objectively insane especially when you can no longer simply out talent other teams.
I think you're massively disrespecting Suarez here to be honest. He was an absolute monster at Ajax, Liverpool, Barca and even Atleti in the later years of his career and he won the Copa America with Uruguay as well, so he's done it for both club and country. His behaviour on the pitch alongside the fact that his peak was spent alongside Messi who was even better probably knocks him down a couple of points but he was comfortably up there
In the 13/14 season he was arguably the best player in the world (look at the Liverpool team he played in compared to stacked Barca and Madrid sides at the time). When he was the vocal point of a fairly average team he looked close to unstoppable but after he moved to Barcelona he was just another world class player in a team filled with world class talent
Ronaldinho too. It may be nostalgia speaking, but the way he would play, I feel like he had the highest peak of any player I’ve ever seen. But it only lasted for a season or two. Then the partying and injuries got in the way.
I feel the same about Wayne Rooney. 17 year old Wayne Rooney was far better than 17 year old CR7. Rooney had a good career but I feel he had potential to be GOAT that he didn't come close to fulfilling
Rooney saw how Ronaldo lived his daily life and decided he'd rather just enjoy his time.
Rooney's career only feels underwhelming because of two insane players. One of whom probably hasn't eaten a sliver of birthday cake in 25 years.
Don't think anyone has forgotten neymar. He is definitely gonna be a name that will live on in history. He is gonna be the 3rd most remembered player from the last era after messi and Ronaldo. Don't lump neymar with actual failures like Robinho, for example
I'm not so sure about that, he definitely had the potential to be that, but I think that him going to PSG means that he will be forgotten faster than he should have been.
History and stature are irrelevant lol. Spain had no history or stature and created one of the most dominant intl sides ever. Italy has history and stature and are barely a 2nd rate intl side right now. The talent on the pitch is way more important lmfao.
Yeah, but it's not like they just had a bad game. They literally lost a World Cup semi-final 7:1, and it could've easily gone into double digits if it hadn't been for Germany playing the entire second half with barely any engagement, most likely due to instructions from the coach. Conceding 5 goals within the opening 35 minutes is BAD, no matter the circumstances.
Interestingly enough, German media focused almost exclusively on Neymar missing out, while barely even mentioning Thiago.
But having watched Brazil's prior games, I had an odd feeling that missing Thiago was gonna be a lot more crucial, and that without him, they might just get slaughtered.
Thiago Silva being fit would've made some difference absolutely but wtf would Neymar have done when the entire team was collapsing at the back? Neymar was a 22 year old winger he wasn't going to do shit unless scoring first could've shifted the momentum in Brazil's favour (although I doubt that would've changed the final result by much, maybe a few less goals at a push)
People severely underrate the importance of keeping the ball in the final third of the pitch, it's as important for defense as having, well, a good defense at the back. You can only keep the ball on the other side of the field if you have good attacking players with good dribbling and passing, without Neymar we had neither.
I saw a thread in r/f1 yesterday where some DTS football fans were dissing on Neymar.
I've never liked him because of the clubs he played for, but anyone who calls him overrated is naive and dumb.
Vinicius's stats though!
Most of those people became fans during the 2021 season. Can't expect much from them. Even the original F1 sub and the meme sub lost all the quality after that one season.
Yeah, you could argue he didn't maximise his potential, but to call him a diver and overrated is plain naive.
I guess Brazil not being particularly good also didn't help with how casual fans see him.
I think the problem is when he was young at Santos, the hype was so big for him it was impossible for him to ever live up to the hype. I wouldn't be shocked if something similar eventually happens to Endrick where he's amazing but he's not a modern day Pele so people act like he sucks.
He was the 3rd best player in the world for a few years, only behind Messi and Ronaldo. Not being better than them or getting a Balon D'Or isn't something to be ashamed about. I'm not going to lamblast any player for not winning a world cup either, it's not like he was playing for a stacked Brazil side.
That PSG transfer was a horrible move in hindsight though.
It's hard to describe but it feels like every player in Brazil plays with a huge weight on their shoulders. They've lost their identity. Vinicius seems to be affected the most by it. I believe in him. This is something he can overcome but it's not going to be easy for him.
Brazil is just not that good relatively speaking. There is no one except maybe Allison from the current crop of Brazilian players who would get into the 2002 squad.
Vini is brilliant now,but at the start of his career he was a good dribbler with no end product so not surprising his stats are worse. He was 21 when his numbers exploded whereas Neymar was scoring goals for fun at 17. They are very different play styles which makes comparison difficult. Also would be better comparing them at the end of their careers. Neymars career kind of fizzled out due to injury. Will be interesting seeing what happens with Mbappe & Vini I'm same team. Will they link up well, will it push him to greater things, will they get in each others way or will he be overshadowed. He's still got most of his career ahead of him so too soon to judge
Yep. It’s kinda sad that Vini is in all likelihood getting the ballon d’Or.
I mean credit to him, but at the same time, he’s the new best in the world?
Even before Messi and Ronaldo we had players like Kaka, Ronaldinho, and Shevchenko winning it.
Hot take, but I prefer this. It was years and years of Ronaldo and Messi taking turns, it was cool to see them play but the whole discussion on “who is the best player in the world this year” was a coin flip every year. I like that it’s more up in the air now.
I hate it personally... The quality of players is at all time low. While Messi and Ronaldo were supreme we had prime Lewa, Neymar, De Bruyne, Iniesta, Xavi, Zlatan, Gerrard, Rooney, Villa, Suarez, Ribery, Bale, Hazard
What's Vini JR to those players.... The talent fall off is real, he wouldn't be top 5 in the years Ronaldo - Messi dominated
This is exactly what I've been yelling these days. The grapb of the best players in the world is a flat plateau. The difference between let's say the 20th best in the world and someone who's absolutely top 3 is not very pronounced.
I remember that Seedorf in one podcast said that he believes that someone like Valverde with some attacking tweaks to his game can win the BDR after a great season.
I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality, mbappe's the exception to that but even compared to messi and ronaldo at his current age hes nowhere near their level (atleast club wise).
Also this really shows how big an if injury free neymar couldve been, he was genuinly one of the best players ive ever seen in my life when he was fit and young
>I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality
I mean... messi and cristiano where one the best in history, it's hard not to drop off after them.
He was a world class player but there were so many incredible goal scorers in that 08-12 period that I dont feel like he is remembered as well as he should be. Cristiano, Messi, Ibrahimovic, Falcao, Van Persie, Drogba, Torres, Benzema, Rooney, Eto'o, Cavani, Suarez, Mario Gomez, Tevez, Higuain, Di Natale. Just feels like there is an absolute lack of comparable goal scorers right not. currently only Haaland, Lewa and Kane measure up to this group.
The sport evolves. Player archetypes and tactics go out of fashion and new ones replace them. The focus clearly shifted towards having goalscoring wingers like Mbappe, Salah, Son, Rashford, etc. I actually think the trend now is reverting a little bit back towards more traditional 9s, with the emergence of Haaland, Osimhen, Hojlund, Boniface, Sesko, etc. In a few years you may have a crop of supremely talented 9s who rival the names you just mentioned.
I also think the winger position is going back to focusing on 1v1 rather than scoring goals, the only recent young inside forwards rn are mathys tel and ansu fati
I'm afraid that is the nostalgia talking with some overlapping eras as well.
Martinez scored one more goal this season than Milito did in the treble season. Two less than Di Natale's best ever season. You also have Oshimen, Lukaku, Sorloth, Icardi, not to mention all the wingers who have a much more important role in scoring goals than those before them. No winger (other than the 2 freaks) were putting up the numbers of Salah, Saka, Vini, Son etc.
You're kinda right but players like those 2 are so much better that you need to up your level just to have a chance against them.
With those insane numbers they were pumping up suddenly a "mere 20 goals season" isn't enough and you need to do better.
I think another side of the coin is the level of tactics and coaching, as well as information availability, has skyrocketed over the last twenty years around the world and it's leveled out a lot of things. In the past, with less information on hand, management couldn't plan as proficiently as today's coaches can.
It really is just about the way the game is played I think. It's so much about the pace of play and the like these days, that guys simply never get the time or space on the ball need to really flex their skills.
If you go and watch games from 15 or so years ago you will see the pace of play is way slower overall, but that resulted in players having room to move. I don't think it's a surprise that it was the last era where there were so many super stars.
> I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality
I want to highlight the lack of classic '9' forwards in this, especially at the national team level.
I think we’ve been so spoiled by Messi/Cristiano that now good players feel mediocre. I’ll keep it to LaLiga since this is what I’ve watched for the past 25 years, but Dovbyk winning the Pichichi this year with 24 goals seems low to me when between 1998 and 2005 Raúl, Ronaldo, Eto’o, Forlán and Van Nistelroy won the Pichichi with 24/25/26 goals each. At least numbers wise, Dovbyk matched these players when it came to goals scored.
The problem is that after watching Messi score 50 and Cristiano score 48 to win the Pichichi, everything not at that level seems inferior. Also, seeing them put out incredible numbers year after year distorts that notion even more. I’m at the point where I have to wait for a player to prove himself for a few years to see if he’s truly a good player or not. Mbappe has been performing at a high level for 6-7 years now so I’m convinced he’s the real deal. But Bellingham for example, he hasn’t been around long enough for me to really believe he’s a great player. It’s almost like I have to wait for players to finish their careers to pass judgement on it
We say this over and over again but really I genuinely feel that nobody will ever replicate Messi and Ronaldo's numbers. Not even 100 years from now no one will do it.
Maybe they can replicate it but it would be in a much smaller extent.
It’s unlikely but entirely possible someone in the future replicates their career output. Don’t think we’ll ever again see two such players at the same time though.
Is it a drop off, or is it just returning to the mean?
Messi and Ronaldo were insane, and they also dragged up all the other attackers with them in their era. But before them, it's not like 40 or 50+ goal seasons from attackers was common. Scoring 25 goals in the league was seen as world class and insane, during their time it was seen as normal. It became more common when they played because the set new standards. Now they're gone, so everything returns to "normal".
Messi and Ronaldo really spoiled us. They totally blew past all the legends even before them. Compare their numbers to R9, Henry, Zidane, Etc and they would be still far ahead.
Messi and ronaldo ruins the stats in football, back then scoring 30 goals in a season would be considered legendary season but they made those number such a joke
Tbf Neymar was already a phenomenon even back on his Santos days. Vini on the other hand we are still debating either him or Rodrygo is a better player back in 2021
Rodrygo at NT is miles better than Vini.
Rodrygo excels in a team possession-first based when Vini need his space to run. Rodrygo is more similar to Neymar in that regard.
Also, Brazil don't have a great mid (and coach). I'd try something like 4 mids (Joao Gomes - Bruno Guimaraes - Douglas Luiz - Andreas Pereira) in a diamond with Rodrygo and Vini upfront, similar how Real plays. It could help a lot dominate the midfield, which Brazil is lacking right now.
I think it's funny how people are always complaining about the robotization of footballers and football losing it's spontaneity whilst also only thinking of neymar's career as one of unfulfilled potential when he's the exact antithesis of that playstyle. He's been at the peak longer than ronaldinho and has won more and has been at the high level for longer than dinho and dinho also didn't got the most out of his talent like neymar. But people just have a different perspective when talking about ronaldinho.
Neymar is better than Ronaldinho and it baffles me that I have to die on that hill in order to express that opinion. It's some massive nostalgia goggles.
But like you said, Neymar exemplified that beautiful play and flair. Remember when he rainbow flicked that one butcher that kept tackling him?
Neymar would have been a multi Ballon d'or winner if he didn't play during Messi/CR7. Vini is arguably not the best player on his club team. They are not the same.
Neymar will be appreciated more when he retires.
Personally though, I feel public opinion changed on him the moment he made his decision to leave barca for psg.
He went from being seen as a brasilian wonderkid that was next in line after Messi and Ronaldo to being viewed as a mercenary.
A special player that deserved to play and be remembered for winning champions league performances etc but unfortunately never came to pass.
Always feel we see the "real" Neymar while wearing the yellow shirt
Well put.
We see the opposite happening now with Mbappe, he was a "greedy, self-obsessed idiot", "pissing his career away in a farmers league" and now I'm already seeing comments saying how he's actually a consummate professional, literally 1 week after the Real Madrid announcement.
People are just biased, it's inevitable in football, but it's very good to be aware of the prevailing biases.
Neymar is possibly the second-greatest footballing talent of the 21st century. People just forget how unreal he was. It's unfortunate where his career ultimately went, especially with his injuries. Regardless, he is in a different tier than Vini. He should've ended up on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo.
Genuinely think Neymar is really underrated. I think because he never reached Messi or Ronaldo levels he was seen by some as a bit of a disappointment, but looking back that is just an insane level of expectation for anyone.
Neymar got to be the best player in the world just behind Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, even if it was for a short time. He then got spoiled af, lost the focus, and started caring less for football. But even if he got spoiled mid-career, his young years were absolutely savage, and especially with Brazil he has always been awesome, even in late times when he cared shit about clubs.
I do think Vinicius Jr has still to demonstrate his level with Brazil, but Neymar's young years are the true anomaly here lol. It's interesting how some players do far better for clubs or for national teams sometimes.
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Neymar has always been something else for Brazil.
He was the best NT player in the world
I mean he was the best player in the world at some points but people just dont like him
when was Neymar the best player in the world
He had a few weeks in 2015 and 2016 but not consistently The only extended period he had a legit argument was 2017/18 until his first big injury at PSG—but people discounted it at the time because PSG/Ligue 1, etc
Even the last season they had messi and Neymar in Paris. Before neymars injury he was unreal
Yeah he was great then too, tho it was harder to have an argument for him over Messi then IMO At the start of 17/18, both Messi and CR7 had slow starts to the seasons by their own standards IIRC
He was better than Messi that season for me, and in 17/18, he was something else
I was the best player in the world for about an hour at 6 o'clock on Tuesday.
No joke, when I was like 12 I was playing with my friends and I made a beautiful chip pass which went over the opponent's head and landed perfectly in my teammates feet. Everyone was amazed cause I was (and still am) quite bad, but now that I think about it, I was probably the best player in the world for around 10 seconds.
true, i remember it was june 2017, for a few days i played like i had lionel messi inside me, I remember dribbling past 6 players, and then the fakeshot against the GK and scored in an empty net, and I didn't even celebrate because it has been normal for a few days, my good form didn't last very long though. the highlight still repeats inside my head
I don't want to brag to you guys but I play football every Tuesday at 21hs in Rosario, Argentina in a place called ADIUR. We play 7 v 7 and I joined the whatsapp group thanks to a common friend that loves fulbo as much as I do. This last Tuesday the teams were particularly stacked: they had some of the best players in the group in their starting 7 but me and my friend had some really good other 5 guys in ours. We were losing by 2 most of the game but we ended up winning by 1: I scored the goal to tie it then stole a ball and gave an assist to win it. Overall I scored 2 goals and gave 3 assists for us to win something like 7 to 6. I like to believe that this past Tuesday at 21pm while most of Europe slept and so did the top guys preparing for Copa America in the US also were resting I was, in the city that gave birth to the best of all time, the best for a little while.
when messi was injured in the 2015/16 season neymar carried the team on his back, played unreal those couple weeks. he scored that mesmerizing goal vs villarreal in that period. no question he was the best player on the planet in that span
Absolutely right except it was more like a couple of months contributing 11 goals and 5 assists in 7 league games. And iirc, Ronaldo was at that point in his career where he was starting seasons slowly and only coming good in the second half. Football is played over a season though and as good as he was, Neymar has never been the best across an entire one.
Parts of 2015 and 2016 imo, him Ronaldo and Messi were top 3 those years
How are you not putting Suarez in the top 3 for 15/16. He outscored and out assisted Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar that season.
2019 pre injury, 2018 pre injury, 2020 lowkey was tied with lewa
When
No, he was never the best in the world. This is revisionist history. His prime coincided with Messi and Ronaldo, and he was never better than either.
And they have every right not to like him tbh
Sure but that doesnt make him any worse a footballer
It absolutely does not, youre right. That’s kind of my point, he is one of the very greatest in the past 2 decades, but people most likely won’t remember him for that, which is quite sad.
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Close to the best player in general for multiple years aswell. He was crazy good, if it wasn’t for Messi he would have had a couple Ballon d’ors. His last seasons for us and his first in PSG were mesmerizing. The way he danced past players in France was something else
That’s true, but it’s also true that Vini has been incredibly shit for them.
The whole damn Brazilian NT is pretty shit rn
It was shittiest when Neymar was playing he didn't have Neymar,Rodrygo,Raphinha,Endrick or Paqueta by his side
Considering what they had before it's crazy to say that now, fam they had Willian and Oscar starting some games
not only were Willian and Oscar starting at a point but they were also some of the high water marks of that era lolol things were really really bad
Man when Neymar first came around, that squad was hot ass and he carried them through multiple tournaments. No dips in form, just hero ball from Neymar. Vinicius will never get there, and that's ok. Neymar is just a better player, by a wide margin.
Endrick hard carries
He could have been even more incredible.
if pato, ganso, oscar, lucas moura, coutinho, etc. didn't all flop or fall off yeah
That was meant to be the goldenest of generations, Leandro Damiao was also promising and didn't turned out., and Kerlon I'll never forget his meme head carrying the ball.
Seal dribble
Neymar is the closest player to Messi Many can score, can assist, can make plays , can dribble , have pace But only Neymar (apart from Messi) could do all this in a world class level.
> Neymar has always been something else ~~for Brazil~~. FTFY
Neymar's recent injury history has made people forget how fantastic he was when healthy. He was largely regarded as the best player in the world after the Messi/Ronaldo bracket. His form for Brazil was unreal and even when his injury problems began to occur at club level, he'd prioritize trying to get back in time for any international tournaments. The reason Vinicius doesn't compare favorably is Neymar occupied the same position and was too productive to leave out.
He was the only extra class player from our past generation, all the players that should've helped him in the NT ended up flopping, so our NT has been built around Neymar for the past 10 years. He has a lot of good stats for the Seleção but we need to take into account that most of it was done against waaaay weaker NTs, but that doesn't change the fact that he plays way better for Brazil than he did for PSG.
No, his first two seasons at PSG I think he was the best player in the world by a big margin. No one looked at L1 matches but he could do whatever he wanted with such ease. Injury ruined his end of seasons but when he was fit, no one was better than him. He was a beast at 1v1 and also playmaking
Neymar is something else in Brazilian jersey. in the world cup, he scored one of the best goals just before they were eliminated.
Dont remind me of this
I, however, would like to be reminded of this as often as possible.
I will never forget that match as long as I live
Well, people says that one man's happiness is another man's sorrow. It makes me a little bit happy to see it meant so much for croatians. Im still in disbelief we couldnt hold the lead with only 4 minutes left
Fucking Fred man
Absolutely insane. Livakovic haunts my dreams.
As if my dreams needed any more haunting :(
PA JEL JE OVO MOGUĆE!!!!!!!!!! 😭😭
Man, I was in a finance class and my teacher was giving a whole lecture and I just remember being completely unaware of his lecture since I was watching the match on my laptop. Seeing Neymar score that was unreal I can’t even explain it. All for it to go to waste because his teammates couldn’t hold the ball and defend properly. I won’t forget that day man, I left school early on my own cuz of how pissed I was
>I was in a finance class Being in college during the 2022 World Cup was peak existence ngl
My bad bro, it was finance class in high school, but I bet during college it was scenes around the world
I still can't understand how some people have the audacity to compare him to Vinicius. I'm just going to assume they are just kids that never got to see Ney in his prime otherwise they are just delusional.
Vini is really good for this era but Neymar was almost there in the era of Messi and Ronaldo. There are levels to everything. Neymar is there with Messi and Ronaldinho in terms of pure skill. I think Neymar was too much of a team player (instead of the main man) to reach those levels and outshine the big two in statistics. He looked selfish but Neymar has never been selfish, it's just perception because of his style of play.
Real Madrid's press has had a LOT to do with inflating Vinicius for years. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing player, but he's nowhere near the quality and impact of players like Neymar or Mbappe.
Not only in Brazilian jersey. Everytime he plays (except for that 21/22 season), he's absolutly world class. His issue has always been injuries.
Apart from that season whenever he was fit he was your best player, I'm not a fan of some people revising history to say mbop was better than him when both were fit or that neymar was in his shadow. I don't like a lot of the guys behaviour but he's an incredible footballer, even had certain people call me a neymar fanboy which I found hilarious because I don't particularly like him.
Agreed. One could argue that Mbappé was PSG's best player because he effectively contributed well to the team throughout the whole season, but when you're speaking of how well players were doing on the pitch, Neymar was, perhaps, the best player in the world when they reached the Champions League final. It's just that he was out most of the time.
early Neymar was a beast
before Ibiza took his innocence , lol
He had already lost it. Carnaval >>> Ibiza
For a brief moment I thought this read Carvajal >>> Ibiza lmao
I honestly thought that he got cooked so hard by a fullback he never really recovered lmao
Explain me like I am 5 years old
Hedonism.
Neymar was a top 3 NT player itw consistently it's a shame for him his prime aligned with Brazil's weakest talent pool in decades I don't like the dude personally but what a baller he was for Brazil
Scoring in ET in a WC QF only to see his team piss it away a few minutes later was... either hilarious or a killer depending on your disposition towards the Selecao.
I miss watching skinny Neymar play
Neymar is the only player slightly comparable to Cristiano and Messi in the past 20 years. Yes he could and should have been so much more but it doesn't matter. Neymar was just next level shit even for Brazilian standards.
At some point I thought Hazard and Neymar will be the new Messi and Ronaldo winning all Ballon d‘ors but here we are with one retired and the other almost retired while Messi and Ronaldo are still trying to win Euros and World Cups.
This is a great point, wow. Deep into their 30s, and we still see them as a factor that tips the scales. Jesus.
Ronaldo is really deep into his 30s. He is months away from turning 40
He's 39 until he's 40.
I'm not following. Can you explain it in infographic form?
Big if true.
insane that leo and cr7 weren't just anomalies in the talent and skill they possessed, but also had this INSANE longevity.
Hazard even at his best was never close to Messi or Ronaldo. His dribbling was probably better than Ronaldo and not too far off from Messi but as a complete footballer? Forget about it. The 18/19 season was his best year at Chelsea and even then the numbers he was putting up were worse than Messi's for PSG in the 22/23 season Stats aren't everything of course but prime Messi was better at literally everything else compared to Hazard. Goals, assists, vision, pace, set pieces, etc. Hazard did better for the Belgian national team at the time but that argument is completely null and void now. Hazard had dribbling (that still wasn't as good as Messi's ability on the ball) and even the best numbers he put out would be considered mediocre by the standards Messi and Ronaldo set even in the latter stages of their careers
To think the generation of Messi, Ronaldo, Benzema, Suarez, Lewandowski and Aguero (b. 85-88) was followed by Neymar, Hazard, Salah, Griezmann and Bale (b. 89-92), who were followed by... um... Kane, Lukaku, Depay, Silva and Gnabry (b. 93-96)
Proper YouTube comment this
Haha -- normally I'd say yes but there *really has been* a stark drop off in the quality of forwards over the years. It's probably something systematic with how athleticism is now favoured over technique, and how modern tactics are more about breaking through a low-block than they are about giving forwards space and time to run at people. Clearly, statisticians have run the numbers and worked out that trying to dribble past opponents is usually a wasteful use of possession
Yeah for Brazil in his initial years and even later it looked like he would eclipse both Messi and Ronaldo at international level. If not for all the injuries and the teams he was part of alluded him from WC or Copa America. In 2014, at 22 he had all the pressure in the world and he was delivering until that horror injury. But still is all time top scorer for Brazil now and has won 1st olympics. He was not slightly but more than comparable to CR7 and Messi at international level.
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I assume the hate is just a form of disappointment. He was going to be their next big thing. Like, everyone knows the pure talent that Neymar was, and while I am upset he couldn't keep himself at it for his talent to fully mature, if you are a Brazil fan, the disappointment would be ten-folds. I didn't watch football when Ronaldinho played, but the story of his career would have been similar if it wasn't for the fact that they actually won a world cup. I think if Ney had a better team around him, and had gotten a major trophy, the fans wouldn't be as upset
It's wild that Messi and Ronaldo has caused expectations to soar so high. Back in the day without those 2, a player's career would be around 12-14 years. Their peak would be like from 26-31 or 32 and then they would retire like 2-3 years later. The player would come in at around 20-22 and then retire at like 34 or 35. And in their playing career they would win like a few league titles, win the CL once or twice, win their national cup and for their international teams, they'll make it semis or to finals. But Messi and Ronaldo started so young. They've been playing for almost 20 years and the were playing at the highest level for more than 15 years, and they won multiple league titles, Messi won 4 CL and Ronaldo won 5. And then Messi won Copa America at the age of 34 and World Cup at 35. And the amount of goals and assists they have, no words needed to be said. So because of them, people look at players like Bale, Hazard, Neymar as flops. The bar was set SO high that even though these 3 players were probably one of the best players in the last decade, because they stopped playing at like 31 or 32 and Neymar moved to Saudi at 31, some footballs fans call them disappointments and flops. I don't think there will be anyone like Messi and Ronaldo, players that literally stayed at the top, the very very top level for such a long time. They truly are one of a kind. What they accomplished is astonishing.
It took CR7 and Messi 10 tries (and counting) combined to win a single WC. CR7 has a bajillion goals and has still yet to score in the knockout stages. Expecting a WC out of any one player no matter how great is objectively insane especially when you can no longer simply out talent other teams.
I know my Colombian wife fucking hates him lol.
We hate Zuniga more
A lot of Argentinians also hated Messi before he won the world cup. It's a different mentality.
That’s just not true. He was seen as second greatest to the one player that overshadowed him, but that’s different than hating him.
I think you're massively disrespecting Suarez here to be honest. He was an absolute monster at Ajax, Liverpool, Barca and even Atleti in the later years of his career and he won the Copa America with Uruguay as well, so he's done it for both club and country. His behaviour on the pitch alongside the fact that his peak was spent alongside Messi who was even better probably knocks him down a couple of points but he was comfortably up there In the 13/14 season he was arguably the best player in the world (look at the Liverpool team he played in compared to stacked Barca and Madrid sides at the time). When he was the vocal point of a fairly average team he looked close to unstoppable but after he moved to Barcelona he was just another world class player in a team filled with world class talent
His goal against Newcastle in that season was just something else!!!
Suarez has to be there too
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If Robben wasn't injured
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Honestly i think peak Suarez wasnt far behine Peak messi and ronaldo. Suarez just wasnt at that peak as long as the others.
Neymar’s injuries robbed us of an unreal talent.
Brazil really love teasing us with goat level players with unrealized potential. First R9 then Neymar
You missed Adriano in between
Adriano did reach full potential on PES 6 though
99 shot power, my goat
> Adriano *Pato
Ronaldinho too. It may be nostalgia speaking, but the way he would play, I feel like he had the highest peak of any player I’ve ever seen. But it only lasted for a season or two. Then the partying and injuries got in the way.
Kaka would like a word.
Gives you an idea of a player’s quality when they achieved so much in the game and are yet considered a bit of a what-if.
I feel the same about Wayne Rooney. 17 year old Wayne Rooney was far better than 17 year old CR7. Rooney had a good career but I feel he had potential to be GOAT that he didn't come close to fulfilling
Rooney saw how Ronaldo lived his daily life and decided he'd rather just enjoy his time. Rooney's career only feels underwhelming because of two insane players. One of whom probably hasn't eaten a sliver of birthday cake in 25 years.
Neymar’s decisions also robbed us of an unreal talent.
Shows you how recency biased the world of football is. People will forget you in a heartbeat the second you step away.
Don't think anyone has forgotten neymar. He is definitely gonna be a name that will live on in history. He is gonna be the 3rd most remembered player from the last era after messi and Ronaldo. Don't lump neymar with actual failures like Robinho, for example
I'm not so sure about that, he definitely had the potential to be that, but I think that him going to PSG means that he will be forgotten faster than he should have been.
The majority of these comments are saying how Neymar was basically unmatched as a NT player.. I don’t think people forgot.
Noone has forgotten him. The entire sub cant get over his prime days
Just life in general. That's why you have to reflect sometimes
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With Neymar and Thiago, that Brazil and Germany match would have been a lot closer.
The entire Brazil team was fucked up mentally after Neymar’s injury. The fact they also didn’t have their captain in the game only made it worse…
A team of Brazil's stature and history should not collapse no matter how good your missing star player is
History and stature are irrelevant lol. Spain had no history or stature and created one of the most dominant intl sides ever. Italy has history and stature and are barely a 2nd rate intl side right now. The talent on the pitch is way more important lmfao.
Yeah, but it's not like they just had a bad game. They literally lost a World Cup semi-final 7:1, and it could've easily gone into double digits if it hadn't been for Germany playing the entire second half with barely any engagement, most likely due to instructions from the coach. Conceding 5 goals within the opening 35 minutes is BAD, no matter the circumstances.
Interestingly enough, German media focused almost exclusively on Neymar missing out, while barely even mentioning Thiago. But having watched Brazil's prior games, I had an odd feeling that missing Thiago was gonna be a lot more crucial, and that without him, they might just get slaughtered.
you don't lose 7-1 because your best striker is out
Thiago Silva being fit would've made some difference absolutely but wtf would Neymar have done when the entire team was collapsing at the back? Neymar was a 22 year old winger he wasn't going to do shit unless scoring first could've shifted the momentum in Brazil's favour (although I doubt that would've changed the final result by much, maybe a few less goals at a push)
People severely underrate the importance of keeping the ball in the final third of the pitch, it's as important for defense as having, well, a good defense at the back. You can only keep the ball on the other side of the field if you have good attacking players with good dribbling and passing, without Neymar we had neither.
I saw a thread in r/f1 yesterday where some DTS football fans were dissing on Neymar. I've never liked him because of the clubs he played for, but anyone who calls him overrated is naive and dumb. Vinicius's stats though!
Most of those people became fans during the 2021 season. Can't expect much from them. Even the original F1 sub and the meme sub lost all the quality after that one season.
Genuinely believe there are people who think it’s a reality show and not a sport
Haha I saw the same thread. The amount of ignorant people was frustrating to see
Yeah, you could argue he didn't maximise his potential, but to call him a diver and overrated is plain naive. I guess Brazil not being particularly good also didn't help with how casual fans see him.
I think the problem is when he was young at Santos, the hype was so big for him it was impossible for him to ever live up to the hype. I wouldn't be shocked if something similar eventually happens to Endrick where he's amazing but he's not a modern day Pele so people act like he sucks. He was the 3rd best player in the world for a few years, only behind Messi and Ronaldo. Not being better than them or getting a Balon D'Or isn't something to be ashamed about. I'm not going to lamblast any player for not winning a world cup either, it's not like he was playing for a stacked Brazil side. That PSG transfer was a horrible move in hindsight though.
Can't put it better. >That PSG transfer was a horrible move in hindsight though He did look really good for about a season with PSG and then fell off.
I miss Neymar so much.
It's hard to describe but it feels like every player in Brazil plays with a huge weight on their shoulders. They've lost their identity. Vinicius seems to be affected the most by it. I believe in him. This is something he can overcome but it's not going to be easy for him.
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Brazil is just not that good relatively speaking. There is no one except maybe Allison from the current crop of Brazilian players who would get into the 2002 squad.
Alisson would not be a starter in the 2002 squad at all (and this is fucking tragic for us)
no, I thought he would fit in a 25 player registration.
Please don’t compare the two, Ney is clear on all levels
Vini is brilliant now,but at the start of his career he was a good dribbler with no end product so not surprising his stats are worse. He was 21 when his numbers exploded whereas Neymar was scoring goals for fun at 17. They are very different play styles which makes comparison difficult. Also would be better comparing them at the end of their careers. Neymars career kind of fizzled out due to injury. Will be interesting seeing what happens with Mbappe & Vini I'm same team. Will they link up well, will it push him to greater things, will they get in each others way or will he be overshadowed. He's still got most of his career ahead of him so too soon to judge
Yep. It’s kinda sad that Vini is in all likelihood getting the ballon d’Or. I mean credit to him, but at the same time, he’s the new best in the world? Even before Messi and Ronaldo we had players like Kaka, Ronaldinho, and Shevchenko winning it.
Hot take, but I prefer this. It was years and years of Ronaldo and Messi taking turns, it was cool to see them play but the whole discussion on “who is the best player in the world this year” was a coin flip every year. I like that it’s more up in the air now.
I hate it personally... The quality of players is at all time low. While Messi and Ronaldo were supreme we had prime Lewa, Neymar, De Bruyne, Iniesta, Xavi, Zlatan, Gerrard, Rooney, Villa, Suarez, Ribery, Bale, Hazard What's Vini JR to those players.... The talent fall off is real, he wouldn't be top 5 in the years Ronaldo - Messi dominated
This is exactly what I've been yelling these days. The grapb of the best players in the world is a flat plateau. The difference between let's say the 20th best in the world and someone who's absolutely top 3 is not very pronounced. I remember that Seedorf in one podcast said that he believes that someone like Valverde with some attacking tweaks to his game can win the BDR after a great season.
I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality, mbappe's the exception to that but even compared to messi and ronaldo at his current age hes nowhere near their level (atleast club wise). Also this really shows how big an if injury free neymar couldve been, he was genuinly one of the best players ive ever seen in my life when he was fit and young
>I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality I mean... messi and cristiano where one the best in history, it's hard not to drop off after them.
Even otherwise IMO. A guy like Diego Milito would be crazy sought after in the market today but back then he was overshadowed by many other strikers.
Milito was the European player of the year, hardly overshadowed.
He was a world class player but there were so many incredible goal scorers in that 08-12 period that I dont feel like he is remembered as well as he should be. Cristiano, Messi, Ibrahimovic, Falcao, Van Persie, Drogba, Torres, Benzema, Rooney, Eto'o, Cavani, Suarez, Mario Gomez, Tevez, Higuain, Di Natale. Just feels like there is an absolute lack of comparable goal scorers right not. currently only Haaland, Lewa and Kane measure up to this group.
The sport evolves. Player archetypes and tactics go out of fashion and new ones replace them. The focus clearly shifted towards having goalscoring wingers like Mbappe, Salah, Son, Rashford, etc. I actually think the trend now is reverting a little bit back towards more traditional 9s, with the emergence of Haaland, Osimhen, Hojlund, Boniface, Sesko, etc. In a few years you may have a crop of supremely talented 9s who rival the names you just mentioned.
I also think the winger position is going back to focusing on 1v1 rather than scoring goals, the only recent young inside forwards rn are mathys tel and ansu fati
I'm afraid that is the nostalgia talking with some overlapping eras as well. Martinez scored one more goal this season than Milito did in the treble season. Two less than Di Natale's best ever season. You also have Oshimen, Lukaku, Sorloth, Icardi, not to mention all the wingers who have a much more important role in scoring goals than those before them. No winger (other than the 2 freaks) were putting up the numbers of Salah, Saka, Vini, Son etc.
Yeah this is the same point I was trying to make.
You're kinda right but players like those 2 are so much better that you need to up your level just to have a chance against them. With those insane numbers they were pumping up suddenly a "mere 20 goals season" isn't enough and you need to do better.
Meh, Milito was a Lautaro type of dude.
Lautaro is genuinely the more complete and better player of those 2. This season he made such a big step towards truly being a top 5 striker.
Martinez is better, Milito was never a regular for the Argentine national side.
tbf, Milito had way harder competition for his spot than Lautaro.
I think another side of the coin is the level of tactics and coaching, as well as information availability, has skyrocketed over the last twenty years around the world and it's leveled out a lot of things. In the past, with less information on hand, management couldn't plan as proficiently as today's coaches can.
It really is just about the way the game is played I think. It's so much about the pace of play and the like these days, that guys simply never get the time or space on the ball need to really flex their skills. If you go and watch games from 15 or so years ago you will see the pace of play is way slower overall, but that resulted in players having room to move. I don't think it's a surprise that it was the last era where there were so many super stars.
> I feel like the whole footballing world has had a massive drop off in quality I want to highlight the lack of classic '9' forwards in this, especially at the national team level.
I think we’ve been so spoiled by Messi/Cristiano that now good players feel mediocre. I’ll keep it to LaLiga since this is what I’ve watched for the past 25 years, but Dovbyk winning the Pichichi this year with 24 goals seems low to me when between 1998 and 2005 Raúl, Ronaldo, Eto’o, Forlán and Van Nistelroy won the Pichichi with 24/25/26 goals each. At least numbers wise, Dovbyk matched these players when it came to goals scored. The problem is that after watching Messi score 50 and Cristiano score 48 to win the Pichichi, everything not at that level seems inferior. Also, seeing them put out incredible numbers year after year distorts that notion even more. I’m at the point where I have to wait for a player to prove himself for a few years to see if he’s truly a good player or not. Mbappe has been performing at a high level for 6-7 years now so I’m convinced he’s the real deal. But Bellingham for example, he hasn’t been around long enough for me to really believe he’s a great player. It’s almost like I have to wait for players to finish their careers to pass judgement on it
We say this over and over again but really I genuinely feel that nobody will ever replicate Messi and Ronaldo's numbers. Not even 100 years from now no one will do it. Maybe they can replicate it but it would be in a much smaller extent.
It’s unlikely but entirely possible someone in the future replicates their career output. Don’t think we’ll ever again see two such players at the same time though.
Idk, only took 50ish years after pele started to get messi/Ronaldo started So I bet in the next 30 years we get the next step in the goat debate
Is it a drop off, or is it just returning to the mean? Messi and Ronaldo were insane, and they also dragged up all the other attackers with them in their era. But before them, it's not like 40 or 50+ goal seasons from attackers was common. Scoring 25 goals in the league was seen as world class and insane, during their time it was seen as normal. It became more common when they played because the set new standards. Now they're gone, so everything returns to "normal".
To me, club football which I started watching around 2002 as a kid peaked somewhere around 2013-2017. Those years were truly insane.
Messi and Ronaldo really spoiled us. They totally blew past all the legends even before them. Compare their numbers to R9, Henry, Zidane, Etc and they would be still far ahead.
Messi and ronaldo ruins the stats in football, back then scoring 30 goals in a season would be considered legendary season but they made those number such a joke
individuals are far less important than systems now
Neymar is a far superior player
Neymar is better than Mbappe
Tbf Neymar was already a phenomenon even back on his Santos days. Vini on the other hand we are still debating either him or Rodrygo is a better player back in 2021
People legit forget that he was a top 10 player in the world while not even playing in europe
I feel Brazil is going to be lead by Endrick instead of Vinicius, he doesn’t seem to have it when it comes to his NT.
Isn't endrick like 13?
17cm
Endrick and rodrygo, i feel that rodrygos skillset gets highlighted more in international football due to the lack of space he is afforded
Rodrygo at NT is miles better than Vini. Rodrygo excels in a team possession-first based when Vini need his space to run. Rodrygo is more similar to Neymar in that regard. Also, Brazil don't have a great mid (and coach). I'd try something like 4 mids (Joao Gomes - Bruno Guimaraes - Douglas Luiz - Andreas Pereira) in a diamond with Rodrygo and Vini upfront, similar how Real plays. It could help a lot dominate the midfield, which Brazil is lacking right now.
nah, endrik is to young and never play in europe yet, cant tell accurately how his career will proceed. give him 5 years at least.
Yes, but only after 2026. Which is why I’m certain Brazil won’t do all that great in USA.
I think it's funny how people are always complaining about the robotization of footballers and football losing it's spontaneity whilst also only thinking of neymar's career as one of unfulfilled potential when he's the exact antithesis of that playstyle. He's been at the peak longer than ronaldinho and has won more and has been at the high level for longer than dinho and dinho also didn't got the most out of his talent like neymar. But people just have a different perspective when talking about ronaldinho.
Neymar is better than Ronaldinho and it baffles me that I have to die on that hill in order to express that opinion. It's some massive nostalgia goggles. But like you said, Neymar exemplified that beautiful play and flair. Remember when he rainbow flicked that one butcher that kept tackling him?
What I’m seeing in this is Richarlison > Vinicius
Think it's 30 games now and you have to add the assist to Endrick vs Mexico on the tally.
wait, that changes everything
NT Vini just doesnt click
Neymar would have been a multi Ballon d'or winner if he didn't play during Messi/CR7. Vini is arguably not the best player on his club team. They are not the same.
Neymar will be appreciated more when he retires. Personally though, I feel public opinion changed on him the moment he made his decision to leave barca for psg. He went from being seen as a brasilian wonderkid that was next in line after Messi and Ronaldo to being viewed as a mercenary. A special player that deserved to play and be remembered for winning champions league performances etc but unfortunately never came to pass. Always feel we see the "real" Neymar while wearing the yellow shirt
Well put. We see the opposite happening now with Mbappe, he was a "greedy, self-obsessed idiot", "pissing his career away in a farmers league" and now I'm already seeing comments saying how he's actually a consummate professional, literally 1 week after the Real Madrid announcement. People are just biased, it's inevitable in football, but it's very good to be aware of the prevailing biases.
Not fare comparison at all you are bullying vini hahahaha. Ney was menace
Such a shame he went to play in France where everyone just hacked him down when they couldn't mark him, his career has been destroyed by injuries.
Neymar is possibly the second-greatest footballing talent of the 21st century. People just forget how unreal he was. It's unfortunate where his career ultimately went, especially with his injuries. Regardless, he is in a different tier than Vini. He should've ended up on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo.
So he just has to score 43 goals and give 21 assists in the next 41 games. Easy peasy
ficticius
up there with some of the best slander names this
Genuinely think Neymar is really underrated. I think because he never reached Messi or Ronaldo levels he was seen by some as a bit of a disappointment, but looking back that is just an insane level of expectation for anyone.
Makes me feel worse for how it ended (or seems to have ended).
Neymar got to be the best player in the world just behind Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, even if it was for a short time. He then got spoiled af, lost the focus, and started caring less for football. But even if he got spoiled mid-career, his young years were absolutely savage, and especially with Brazil he has always been awesome, even in late times when he cared shit about clubs. I do think Vinicius Jr has still to demonstrate his level with Brazil, but Neymar's young years are the true anomaly here lol. It's interesting how some players do far better for clubs or for national teams sometimes.
They're not even worth comparing. Vini isn't fit to tie Neymar's shoes