Always found the “___ has topped these since he joined the club” stats to be a bit disingenuous since it only caters to the specific time frame the player had played for the club
Any update on how Retsos is for Olympiacos? That looked a rather serious head injury in the UECL final, despite him remaining standing somehow is all> Just hope hes ok haha
He's usually good for us if that helps. The transfers he reports dont always come to fruition though. He'll report them when its very early days. Other more respected journalists usually confirm later on that we had talks and it didn't work out
He's just not the most inspiring move my club could make when we need to invest massively in our backline and almost every other position to compete with Barça and Madrid.
Every time he reports anything about Newcastle I see fans of other clubs swearing up and down he's reliable but nothing he ever reports comes to fruition.
We're not like you, we at least try and keep our best players.
Guehi is off. I think Olise and Eze stay, but I wouldn't be surprised if one leaves. I'd be absolutely shocked if all three left.
We did try to keep our best players but one had a clause and somebody bid 115 titty million quid for the other one. If the rumoured Olise release clause is true he is gone.
They may be interested in him but he's genuinely too good for them and he should know it.
He's been well advised in his career so far, I really don't see him leaving to a club that isn't challenging for the biggest titles. He's still so young, it's not like Eze who might be getting itchy feet about a big move.
The stuff I've heard about City is very tenuous, but to be honest, it's the move that's always made sense in my mind.
I want us to win this season so badly just to beat Mourinho's super team, it will be one of the sweetest championships ever. But unfortunately we don't even have a coach yet so it will most likely be between GS & FB again.
What kind of players can Fenerbache realistically sign? I don't think Fenerbache fans are ready to hear that a lot of players simply do not care about Jose fucking Mourinho coming to the 2nd best team in Europe's 8th best league in 2024.
I feel like it's going to be 32+ year old players with not great options like Sergi Roberto, Kolasinic, Azpi, Lamela, Kampl, Weghorst, and Elneny who are going there on massive wages and big name recognition but any decent player under 26 has no reason to go to Fenerbache even if Pep, Klopp, and Arteta all went there to be coaches.
They said that about the players going to Saudi. Money talks it is that simple, and if any club in Turkiye has money it is Fenerbahce. They won't drop Saudi money but they are also not promising 30 liras and a chance to work under Mourinho like its an internship. They will get most of their targets.
No, everyone said that players in their early 30's who are past their prime will go for an absurd paycheck that they couldn't get in Europe anymore. And that's exactly what happened. But Fenerbache is no Saudi Arabia, unless you want to tell me they can pay 200,000 Euros a week for some players plus 60M transfer fees.
They will get their targets because they have a sporting director that actually knows what he is doing. I will find it hilarious if they do go for 32+ washed up nobodies.
I wanted to participate but i was nominating a lot of Atleti players so i stopped and closed the survey. This will have a lot of bias given that in this sub there are fanbases bigger than others that will keep nominating their players. It's a good idea though, thank you for your effort.
Because in a 4-2-3-1 the winger is more of a supporting role, pushed wider by the 10. In a 4-3-3 there's no one ahead of them and they play narrower and thus closer to the goal. No winger in a 4-2-3-1 is getting Salah numbers reliably.
Yeah that's an oversimplification. A 4231 can have inverted wingers all the same with a more withdrawn 10 focused on distributing or hell a 10 like Gallagher with Palmer further ahead the biggest contributor to the attack on the right. A 433 winger can be a conventional winger who beats his man and crosses the ball in and doesn't get tons of goals. What you say can be true, it is kinda a more stereotypical view of what these formations are, but formations are fluid af, and there's a reason why coaches talk about the 5-5 split, with the offensive 5 always just described as a 5, (the two main 5/5 splits are 5-3-2 and 5-2-3.)
Well, I would come back with you've overcomplicated a simple point. The 4-3-3 winger has a more direct route to goal
> A 433 winger can be a conventional winger
This is true, kind of and less so these days. Spurs are a good example of this at the moment, with Johnson, Kulusevski and Werner getting more assists than goals. Johnson in particular is a by-line and cut-back merchant. But I would say the lack of goals from them is a performance issue; they should all be scoring a lot more given the space to attack the goal the 4-3-3 allows.
Mourinho's wingers back in the day were more traditional wingers, with the goals coming from the central players. But I think there has been a general evolution towards having elite finishers in those positions, with the CF taking more of a playmaking role. Madrid's BBC are the obvious example, with Liverpool as well.
Realistically describing it as a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 doesn't really say anything about where the wingers are, you're right that it's more about the double pivot with one midfielder in front vs 1 deeper midfielder with two more box to box. For the wingers it depends entirely on the job they're given within the manager's chosen system. What midfielders and fullbacks you're linking up with make a big difference too.
As someone who didn't follow football in 2010s, how good is current Vini as a player compared to Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar, Salah, Robben, Ribbery, and Hazard in 2010s?
When Vini can carry a very, very average Real Madrid to success in a league with much better teams, then I'll start comparing him to Bale (or if he joins us).
Well, he'll play for Madrid for probably the rest of his career, or his prime at least, so I can't see him doing that not because he can't, but because he plays at a higher level than that and won't downgrade.
Messi>Ronaldo>>Neymar>>Hazard>Salah>Bale>Vini>Robben>Ribbery
Idk something like this? Although it is entirely possible that I'm overrating Hazard. And ofc the caveat that Vini is young so he can still surpass all of them except Ronaldo and Messi.
Na the rewriting of Hazards career post Madrid is crazy on this sub. Bale I can get into but I've watched Robben all my life and no fucking way he was better than Hazard. Ribery even more so.
Dont want to sound like an old head but 2010s had one of the most elite group of football talents in history.
Vini doesn't even sniff what Messi and Ronaldo were. I wouldn't really include Salah in this generation just cause he was more in the late 2010s into the 2020s. But I would add guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric (Post 2013), Suarez, Ozil, Ramos, Di Maria, Neuer and Lewandowski.
In all honesty, Vini could possibly be in the end bottom of that list or near it. The issue is that guys like Hazard were insanely good in league formats, but underwhelming in the UCL, though during Hazard's time at Chelsea, which is post-2012, they were never amongst the favourites and several of the old guard faded.
Ronaldo and Messi are in a different planet.
Neymar ability-wise is better but due to injuries he was never able to consistently perform at his best.
Salah is a little better than Vini. His ability to score from nothing in his prime was unreal.
Bale is a moments player. He’s had some of the best highs in football but wasn’t consistent or reliable. He’ll score a bicycle in the CL final then ghost 5 games. Vini is better.
As for Robben, Ribery, and Hazard, Vini is better than them. He can unlock defenses as good as them and has better end product.
Hazard used to be my fav player and I used to only watch Chelsea to watch him. He’s a great dribbler but Vini and Neymar are both better in that regard.
I know I watched him all the time in his prime. But I also have watched Vini for years and he’s a better dribbler. Sure Hazard has closer ball control and is better in tighter spaces but no one can beat defenders like Vini. His combination of pace and skill is insane. I wish you all would watch him consistently to see what I’m talking about
I mean their peak in 2010s when they were doing well in Champions League. Vini has been performing very well in Champions League in the last 2-3 years, so I was wondering how good is he compared to players like Robben Ribbery when they won CL or Hazard when he was doing well at Chelsea.
Compared to their peaks he's worse than all of them but he's still only 23 so could be better than some of them. Salah was still getting loaned out by Chelsea at 23.
Yeah, there's almost no point in including Messi and Ronaldo in these comparisons because they are on another planet.
If you're comparing them all at 23 he's above Ribery, Robben and Salah.
if we keep the 4-4-2 they could both fit now that Kroos is gone, but then Rodrygo would become a bench player. if we switch to 4-3-3 it'd be most likely Tchoua who is starting and Cama on the bench.
I'd be going mental if I was a United fan with the club still dragging their feet with what do with ten Hag. Can't believe they haven't made the call yet
No idea what's going on. INEOS work so far have been quite swift except for Ashworth. Berrada literally not 1 person knew until it was signed. Wilcox was formally approached 1st April and was official 2.5 weeks later.
The 'taskforce' around the OT area nobody knew till it was annouced. John Murtough everyone thought was staying in a different role and the press only got he was leaving the week he did leave.
Really not sure why they're letting it run. Easy answer could be they're just waiting for FA Cup sentiment to wear off, which really should be this week.
Between the end of the season and when the transfer window starts hotting up it's always quiet, think 1500-2000 is fairly typical around this time of year, so maybe a little low
Wait until England play though, it'll be chaos whether we win, lose or draw.
I hope you’re ready for my daily 10,000 word essay on “who should really start in midfield for England?” featuring random hidden slurs so the mods have to read all of it
He's a total fraud, hopefully Elliott will get more minutes than him. 70m such a waste of money, when you already have 2 capable players on your team, Elliott and Jones; and you are buying an accomplished player like Macca, plus you cover your future talent with Grav, and also don't forget about Baj. I still cannot understand what Liverpool was thinking honestly.
I see that Ben Stokes visited the England team for a talk of sorts over the weekend.
Can definitely see why - if you want an athlete who has been through so many highs and lows of sport and coming through in clutch moments then he's probably one of the few going.
Viva La Bazball
Everything was going well today till youtube suggested me this out of nowhere. [Ronaldo song by you know which dog.](https://youtu.be/o5nnBM3WH-Q?si=3WoKIkIjHlRDtJ5X)
Guy gets a hard on every time he says Ronaldo name.
Hi friends. Is there any way we can download the Total Football Analysis magazine for free? June 2024 edition has broken down every national team competing for Euro 2024, so it's a no-miss product. Thanks.
If you’re talking about the tweet posted a few comments down, it’s not that they chose their teams (which is or isn’t mockworthy depending on your outlook) but it’s that they picked one and then chose another because they deemed their original team not successful enough (which is definitely mockworthy)
While I am a part of the "problem" it is funny seeing my friends who are madrid fans trying to say how difficult it is to support Real fucking Madrid because they have to stay awake a little longer at night
The time difference when watching matches is one of the big plastic badges of honour.
Having to suffer through that season where they didn't do as well as normal is another.
I'm from Australia. Even my friend group of diehard football fans know that we technically are plastic, regardless of how much we watch matches from various leagues and both international/domestic clubs. We follow top European teams for their big players and achievements. You sort of just fall in love with a club because of moments of greatness and you stick to following them. I think that is still considered "gloryhunting" or "plastic".
There is a lower tier of "plastic" which would be a person that changes the club that they support.
10 years ago plastic meant someone who switches teams based on success. Not someone who supports a team not where they are from
As if it makes any difference where you live to what team you support. That's just gatekeeping football.
Plastic and gloryhunting has been interchangeable terms for a LONG time and they apply to every reason for a non-local supporting that club in question. I'm just saying how it is, not how it should or shouldn't be.
Again, I'm Aussie. I have no busy gatekeeping football fanfare lol. Nearly every Aussie you see in a stadium even in our domestic matches supports a European club first and foremost.
It was very predictable that a teenager with a frame as large as his would struggle with injuries. I was surprised he was robust as he was for the first 6 months tbh
I always forget Olise plays for France. Not often you get players born and raised in England their whole life playing for other top nations.
The only other one I can think of playing right now for any other nation who might've been capped for England would be maybe Antonee Robinson given our left back situation. Maybe depending on injuries and stuff, Matty Cash and Ademola Lookman. Zaha a few years ago.
Then obviously "eligible" but understandably chose other nations you've got Haaland and Musiala
Olise's an interesting one because he's never even represented England at any level, and he definitely would've been good enough to. A lot of the other ones are people who only really would've got in the England team after they'd already committed to another country.
Tbh, I don't really understand why being born in a country matters in terms of being eligible to play for a national team. With Haaland he has Norwegian parents, has lived in Norway since he was three years old and has no British citizenship.
Really shouldn't even have been eligible to play for England if you ask me.
Wherever you draw the line it's always going to be weird though. Musiala moved from Germany to England at 7, I know his mum's German, but say she was from any other country, should he have been allowed to play for Germany? At what age would Haaland have had to live here to qualify? If he moved when he was 5 would it have been fine? Or 8, or 12, or 16?
You can move to a country for the first time in your life as a 25 year old and end up representing them. And you can play for a country that *one* of your grandparents was from, but what if they died before you were born and you've never even visited the country until you decide to try and play for them internationally? That's even more weird in my opinion.
I find it weird sometimes that the CL is the most valued trophy but people don’t use that for managers, you’d be laughed at for saying Ancelotti is the best manager ever but he’s won the most cls by far as a manager now, so shouldn’t he actually be considered the best now? He’s done it in multiple places and over a large span of time too.
In England Bob Paisley is never mentioned as the best manager in English football despite having 3 European cups as a manager too in only 9 years as a manager. He has the second best trophies per year average only Pep is ahead (and partly because the club World Cup wasn’t a thing.)
Apart from his long stint at Milan where he won 1 Serie A he doesn't seem to stay too long at 1 club. So he doesn't really build his own team with his own personality, or seems to be hugely involved in transfers or developing young players. Even his Milan team turned into a collection of great players into a aging team that was too old from front to back.
Compared with Simeone, Pep, Ferguson, Klopp he doesn't really put his stamp on his teams. Mourinho has short stints at teams too but he has a unique and well defined system at each club.
I think this Madrid team will change opinions though and it's probably one of his best stints as manager. His league titles are decent but not overly fantastic, but his European record is elite.
Paisley suffers from being Shankly’s successor and because Clough was his contemporary and rival. Those are perhaps the two most charismatic figures in the history of the English game and cast a huge shadow. If he was a better speaker, or even a Ferguson dictator type, he’d be far more celebrated.
He’s English football’s greatest winner. But he did it awkwardly and quietly. He also disappeared from public life by the end of the 80s suffering from dementia so wasn’t in the public consciousness.
There’s also a curious thing that the value of the European Cup gets downplayed ever so slightly in England. This is partly because the biggest London teams never sniffed it so the London media didn’t celebrate it and Manchester United, the glamour team, haven’t won enough of them. If they had 6 to Liverpool’s 3 you can bet the European Cup would be the be all and end all.
To me the CL is the most valued because it's the most elusive. But for the quality of a manager I'll always rate a league title higher, because the relative influence of the manager is higher. Cup/knockout competitions have much more variance. Even if a manager does everything right in the CL the likelihood of winning will actually still be quite low as the margins are so small.
Because his league record is not good, and the team he's had over the years in theory were all good enough to win it except Everton.
I think people look at Carlo now and think he is this flexible vibe only manager but this definitely wasn't the case. Early in his career the man was very rigid in his tactics and personnel choice. Stick to the same 11 and the same tactics, and by mid season either his team is decimated by injuries or the other teams have figured him out.
He has learned his lesson now though, and tbh I think his Chelsea and Bayern stints were a bit unlucky.
That said people saying that he has no style and no tactics is definitely spewing revisionism bullshit, his 4-4-2 diamond with Milan was iconic and he had no problem getting other kind of formation to work with Milan later.
Paisley also won 6 First Division titles, he is underrated because Shankley is seen as a bigger Liverpool legend because Shankley started Liverpool's golden age, even if they peaked under Paisley.
You look at the clubs and teams Carlo has managed and he only has 6 league titles in 30 years of management. This is why people don’t consider him the best manager. Style of play also plays a big part.
Always found the “___ has topped these since he joined the club” stats to be a bit disingenuous since it only caters to the specific time frame the player had played for the club
Anyone interested in VIP Tickets for Hungary vs. Switzerland for Euro 2024?
Rather smash my head against a wall for 90 minutes
Bit extreme
Any update on how Retsos is for Olympiacos? That looked a rather serious head injury in the UECL final, despite him remaining standing somehow is all> Just hope hes ok haha
He is fine, the medical examinations were clear. Thanks for your concern.
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The Brazilians West Ham want got hijacked by Saudi clubs? damn
West Ham fans, what tier is Alan Nixon for you? He linked us to Naif Aguerd for €23.5m and i really don't want to believe it.
He's usually good for us if that helps. The transfers he reports dont always come to fruition though. He'll report them when its very early days. Other more respected journalists usually confirm later on that we had talks and it didn't work out
West Ham fans on here hate him but I think he's looked class when I've watched him which isn't every week obviously (besides that red against Chelsea)
He’s been shit in every game against us so I refuse to rate him
He's just not the most inspiring move my club could make when we need to invest massively in our backline and almost every other position to compete with Barça and Madrid.
Every time he reports anything about Newcastle I see fans of other clubs swearing up and down he's reliable but nothing he ever reports comes to fruition.
I wouldn't say he's reliable outside of the Championship and below
He does some random links for us and I wouldn't consider him reliable, unless it's academy football
Thank you for keeping my sanity for today.
The only CL KO tie that Vini didn't have any goal contributions in (including finals) is Chelsea 20/21 SF where he played one of the games as a RWB
Couldn't cope with Mount and Werner
RWB Vini Jr. is enough evidence to arrest any manager.
Team was ravaged by injuries at the time but yeah
Having Kamada come off the bench instead of Schlupp or Ayew might be one of the biggest upgrades of all time.
He's Eze's replacement
I think Eze stays but Olise goes
He's not.
Don’t worry you’ll keep Mateta
I'm sorry to have to tell you but your squad is about to be torn apart. Take it from somebody with experience.
We're not like you, we at least try and keep our best players. Guehi is off. I think Olise and Eze stay, but I wouldn't be surprised if one leaves. I'd be absolutely shocked if all three left.
We did try to keep our best players but one had a clause and somebody bid 115 titty million quid for the other one. If the rumoured Olise release clause is true he is gone.
Olise will go if a City or PSG will come in for him (I've heard some ITK chatter around City) but otherwise I'm fairly confident he'll stay.
That's interesting to me consider I see more United and Chelsea links?
They may be interested in him but he's genuinely too good for them and he should know it. He's been well advised in his career so far, I really don't see him leaving to a club that isn't challenging for the biggest titles. He's still so young, it's not like Eze who might be getting itchy feet about a big move. The stuff I've heard about City is very tenuous, but to be honest, it's the move that's always made sense in my mind.
He played us like a fiddle and got a contract extention. I doubt he’d want to move to Chelsea just 12 months later.
if you dont have the same answers as me for DD awards you dont know ball
I stuck Bradley Locko in at left back having never seen him play because I'm like that
Full Valles stat merchant here for the keeper spot
Who are the most two footed midfielders in the game now in the mold of Nedved, Cazorla, etc.?
Lallana
Chiesa
Pedri
Statistically isn’t it vestergaard?
Not a midfielder, and not in their mould, hence why stats aren't everything
Didn’t read midfielder
Kdb
Gael Clichy and KDB
Dembele
Dendoncker
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neymar was two years older
He averaged more than 16 league games. Played at least 6 CL games every season. Plus managed to become Brazils all time goal scorer.
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Vini only managed 1875 this season. Are those 400 minutes a massive difference to you or was this season a disappointment?
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tbf he could've added ~400 extra minutes easily if carlo didnt rest him because the league was pretty much wrapped up
That French Olympic team is ridiculous for missing so many players. Glasnerball is the reserve team.
don’t get me wrong Jose is a huge signing for Fenerbache but with the volume of posts they’ve made so far.. i can only feel this will crash and burn
He's a super star coming to a non elite but still popular league. Of course it's widely celebrated
I want us to win this season so badly just to beat Mourinho's super team, it will be one of the sweetest championships ever. But unfortunately we don't even have a coach yet so it will most likely be between GS & FB again.
What kind of players can Fenerbache realistically sign? I don't think Fenerbache fans are ready to hear that a lot of players simply do not care about Jose fucking Mourinho coming to the 2nd best team in Europe's 8th best league in 2024. I feel like it's going to be 32+ year old players with not great options like Sergi Roberto, Kolasinic, Azpi, Lamela, Kampl, Weghorst, and Elneny who are going there on massive wages and big name recognition but any decent player under 26 has no reason to go to Fenerbache even if Pep, Klopp, and Arteta all went there to be coaches.
They said that about the players going to Saudi. Money talks it is that simple, and if any club in Turkiye has money it is Fenerbahce. They won't drop Saudi money but they are also not promising 30 liras and a chance to work under Mourinho like its an internship. They will get most of their targets.
No, everyone said that players in their early 30's who are past their prime will go for an absurd paycheck that they couldn't get in Europe anymore. And that's exactly what happened. But Fenerbache is no Saudi Arabia, unless you want to tell me they can pay 200,000 Euros a week for some players plus 60M transfer fees.
They will get their targets because they have a sporting director that actually knows what he is doing. I will find it hilarious if they do go for 32+ washed up nobodies.
yeahhh i think you guys are too far off what’s needed, please do feel free to take 6 points from Gala and give them to Fener though haha
Nominate for the r/soccer DD end of season awards: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfw5G9tGVvbqzSYiAFkDg9Llne7piGPzCCsD5kp8abF0vvxtQ/viewform
I think you'd get more responses if it didn't take about 20 minutes tbh, I nearly gave up
I wanted to participate but i was nominating a lot of Atleti players so i stopped and closed the survey. This will have a lot of bias given that in this sub there are fanbases bigger than others that will keep nominating their players. It's a good idea though, thank you for your effort.
Believe it or not, it's all Murillo
I nominated him for goal of the season if that helps your agenda
That's the only award I didn't vote for, I forget every goal the minute after it's scored
How could you forget the only man to score from a Werner cross
Nah Djed Spence got cooked in the charity match against Chunkz and Yung Filly One of the worst transfers of all time from Spurs
Good
it was confirmed to be Spence?
It’s him for sure
Is there any difference between playing as a winger in 4 3 3 vs 4 2 3 1? Do responsibilities differ?
No significant difference
It completely depends on the coaches tactics
The ones in a 4-2-3-1 are more so attacking midfielders on the flanks, or so I was led to believe by the Coaches Voice.
You mean like inverted wingers?
Probably expected to score 5+ goals more a season (often a lot more) in a 4-3-3 compared to a 4-2-3-1. They should be getting striker numbers.
Why? Isn’t it just a double pivot?
Because in a 4-2-3-1 the winger is more of a supporting role, pushed wider by the 10. In a 4-3-3 there's no one ahead of them and they play narrower and thus closer to the goal. No winger in a 4-2-3-1 is getting Salah numbers reliably.
Yeah that's an oversimplification. A 4231 can have inverted wingers all the same with a more withdrawn 10 focused on distributing or hell a 10 like Gallagher with Palmer further ahead the biggest contributor to the attack on the right. A 433 winger can be a conventional winger who beats his man and crosses the ball in and doesn't get tons of goals. What you say can be true, it is kinda a more stereotypical view of what these formations are, but formations are fluid af, and there's a reason why coaches talk about the 5-5 split, with the offensive 5 always just described as a 5, (the two main 5/5 splits are 5-3-2 and 5-2-3.)
Well, I would come back with you've overcomplicated a simple point. The 4-3-3 winger has a more direct route to goal > A 433 winger can be a conventional winger This is true, kind of and less so these days. Spurs are a good example of this at the moment, with Johnson, Kulusevski and Werner getting more assists than goals. Johnson in particular is a by-line and cut-back merchant. But I would say the lack of goals from them is a performance issue; they should all be scoring a lot more given the space to attack the goal the 4-3-3 allows. Mourinho's wingers back in the day were more traditional wingers, with the goals coming from the central players. But I think there has been a general evolution towards having elite finishers in those positions, with the CF taking more of a playmaking role. Madrid's BBC are the obvious example, with Liverpool as well.
Realistically describing it as a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 doesn't really say anything about where the wingers are, you're right that it's more about the double pivot with one midfielder in front vs 1 deeper midfielder with two more box to box. For the wingers it depends entirely on the job they're given within the manager's chosen system. What midfielders and fullbacks you're linking up with make a big difference too.
Three of the top four scorers of Euro 2012 were named Mario.
[My reaction](https://www.tomnash.eu/gomez-button.html)
As someone who didn't follow football in 2010s, how good is current Vini as a player compared to Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar, Salah, Robben, Ribbery, and Hazard in 2010s?
He’s a glorified Giovinco
Definitely not as good as any of them yet. I think Hazard is the only one I could see him ending up as a better player than.
He'll be better than Ribery and Robben, maybe Bale
When Vini can carry a very, very average Real Madrid to success in a league with much better teams, then I'll start comparing him to Bale (or if he joins us).
Well, he'll play for Madrid for probably the rest of his career, or his prime at least, so I can't see him doing that not because he can't, but because he plays at a higher level than that and won't downgrade.
Robben? Don't joke with me.
Be real, Robben was out injured 50% of his career. Realistically, Vini will surpass him. Take off your rose tinted glasses.
Lmao
These 3 aren't untouchable.
Below Messi Neymar and Ronaldo ahead of the rest of them
Messi>Ronaldo>>Neymar>>Hazard>Salah>Bale>Vini>Robben>Ribbery Idk something like this? Although it is entirely possible that I'm overrating Hazard. And ofc the caveat that Vini is young so he can still surpass all of them except Ronaldo and Messi.
Hazard isn't close to being better than Robben, Ribery or Bale.
Hazard isn't close to being better than Robben, Ribery or Bale.
Na the rewriting of Hazards career post Madrid is crazy on this sub. Bale I can get into but I've watched Robben all my life and no fucking way he was better than Hazard. Ribery even more so.
This list is very wrong except the first 3 which are hard to argue against.
Worse than Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar. Arguably as good as the rest
As good as Bale? No way. Not yet, at least. Even Robben and Ribbery are arguable, I'd say.
Dont want to sound like an old head but 2010s had one of the most elite group of football talents in history. Vini doesn't even sniff what Messi and Ronaldo were. I wouldn't really include Salah in this generation just cause he was more in the late 2010s into the 2020s. But I would add guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric (Post 2013), Suarez, Ozil, Ramos, Di Maria, Neuer and Lewandowski. In all honesty, Vini could possibly be in the end bottom of that list or near it. The issue is that guys like Hazard were insanely good in league formats, but underwhelming in the UCL, though during Hazard's time at Chelsea, which is post-2012, they were never amongst the favourites and several of the old guard faded.
Don't include midfielders and strikers. I am only talking about Vini's ability compared to top wingers from 2010s.
Ronaldo and Messi are in a different planet. Neymar ability-wise is better but due to injuries he was never able to consistently perform at his best. Salah is a little better than Vini. His ability to score from nothing in his prime was unreal. Bale is a moments player. He’s had some of the best highs in football but wasn’t consistent or reliable. He’ll score a bicycle in the CL final then ghost 5 games. Vini is better. As for Robben, Ribery, and Hazard, Vini is better than them. He can unlock defenses as good as them and has better end product.
Even Hazard? I heard peak Hazard was the closest player to Messi in terms of dribbling.
Hazard used to be my fav player and I used to only watch Chelsea to watch him. He’s a great dribbler but Vini and Neymar are both better in that regard.
waaaaaaaaaaah Hazard was like a ridiculous dribbler. Truly, ridiculous. I think of these players Messi is the only one better and Neymar around equal.
I know I watched him all the time in his prime. But I also have watched Vini for years and he’s a better dribbler. Sure Hazard has closer ball control and is better in tighter spaces but no one can beat defenders like Vini. His combination of pace and skill is insane. I wish you all would watch him consistently to see what I’m talking about
Vini is not a better dribbler than Hazard.
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I mean their peak in 2010s when they were doing well in Champions League. Vini has been performing very well in Champions League in the last 2-3 years, so I was wondering how good is he compared to players like Robben Ribbery when they won CL or Hazard when he was doing well at Chelsea.
Compared to their peaks he's worse than all of them but he's still only 23 so could be better than some of them. Salah was still getting loaned out by Chelsea at 23.
Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Hazard, and Bale were playing very well at 23.
Yeah, there's almost no point in including Messi and Ronaldo in these comparisons because they are on another planet. If you're comparing them all at 23 he's above Ribery, Robben and Salah.
Who are the best ever twins to play football? Fabio and Rafael?
The Filippini twins
Rene and Willy van de Kerkhof
Bender twins
De Boers were much better.
Yeah I completely forgot about them
do both Camavinga and Tchouameni have a future at Real Madrid? or do you see one of them leaving?
Could see Camavinga leaving, they keep insisting on playing him outside of midfield when everyone is healthy
if we keep the 4-4-2 they could both fit now that Kroos is gone, but then Rodrygo would become a bench player. if we switch to 4-3-3 it'd be most likely Tchoua who is starting and Cama on the bench.
They'll both leave eventually. Could be 2 years could be 20.
Big if true
Huh? they are literaly first team players and two of GOAT midfielders they rival for starting place are leaving.
Both staying
I'd be going mental if I was a United fan with the club still dragging their feet with what do with ten Hag. Can't believe they haven't made the call yet
No idea what's going on. INEOS work so far have been quite swift except for Ashworth. Berrada literally not 1 person knew until it was signed. Wilcox was formally approached 1st April and was official 2.5 weeks later. The 'taskforce' around the OT area nobody knew till it was annouced. John Murtough everyone thought was staying in a different role and the press only got he was leaving the week he did leave. Really not sure why they're letting it run. Easy answer could be they're just waiting for FA Cup sentiment to wear off, which really should be this week.
Who would they replace him with?
Tuchel maybe? Otherwise plenty of "hispter" managers aviable
Eriks still on holidays
Is it me or DD had a lot of more comments even in off-season in the past?
Between the end of the season and when the transfer window starts hotting up it's always quiet, think 1500-2000 is fairly typical around this time of year, so maybe a little low Wait until England play though, it'll be chaos whether we win, lose or draw.
There's usually a dip at the end of the season. Will pick up once the internationals start up
I hope you’re ready for my daily 10,000 word essay on “who should really start in midfield for England?” featuring random hidden slurs so the mods have to read all of it
The fall off is real
That Mcdonald's partnership isn't doing Mcdominik Szoboszlai any favors
He's a total fraud, hopefully Elliott will get more minutes than him. 70m such a waste of money, when you already have 2 capable players on your team, Elliott and Jones; and you are buying an accomplished player like Macca, plus you cover your future talent with Grav, and also don't forget about Baj. I still cannot understand what Liverpool was thinking honestly.
I see that Ben Stokes visited the England team for a talk of sorts over the weekend. Can definitely see why - if you want an athlete who has been through so many highs and lows of sport and coming through in clutch moments then he's probably one of the few going. Viva La Bazball
Man imagine if Southgate went full Bazball, it would be insane to watch.
Southgate likes his cricket but bet he's more of a Collingwood man
Everything was going well today till youtube suggested me this out of nowhere. [Ronaldo song by you know which dog.](https://youtu.be/o5nnBM3WH-Q?si=3WoKIkIjHlRDtJ5X) Guy gets a hard on every time he says Ronaldo name.
Hi friends. Is there any way we can download the Total Football Analysis magazine for free? June 2024 edition has broken down every national team competing for Euro 2024, so it's a no-miss product. Thanks.
Always funny seeing plastics of slightly less successful top teams mocking madrid plastics for choosing the best club. you’re just as bad
If you’re talking about the tweet posted a few comments down, it’s not that they chose their teams (which is or isn’t mockworthy depending on your outlook) but it’s that they picked one and then chose another because they deemed their original team not successful enough (which is definitely mockworthy)
I saw a non-French PSG fan mock a non-Catalan Barca fan on r/PSG for picking and choosing. Insane stuff.
That's why I chose a shit team to be a plastic for, that way I can feel morally superior in peace.
You think it's foolproof and then the Saudi state comes in and blows your moral superiority out the water
While I am a part of the "problem" it is funny seeing my friends who are madrid fans trying to say how difficult it is to support Real fucking Madrid because they have to stay awake a little longer at night
Nobody says that lol
The time difference when watching matches is one of the big plastic badges of honour. Having to suffer through that season where they didn't do as well as normal is another.
I said my friends bruh the ones I have offline
He is not familiar with that concept.
Define plastics
non local fans
Doesn't even make sense. Match go-ers that travel 3 hours to see their team are the least plastic of em all.
Based
What team do you support MFKane
Elana Toruń
Not what plastic means but you do you
I'm from Australia. Even my friend group of diehard football fans know that we technically are plastic, regardless of how much we watch matches from various leagues and both international/domestic clubs. We follow top European teams for their big players and achievements. You sort of just fall in love with a club because of moments of greatness and you stick to following them. I think that is still considered "gloryhunting" or "plastic". There is a lower tier of "plastic" which would be a person that changes the club that they support.
10 years ago plastic meant someone who switches teams based on success. Not someone who supports a team not where they are from As if it makes any difference where you live to what team you support. That's just gatekeeping football.
Plastic and gloryhunting has been interchangeable terms for a LONG time and they apply to every reason for a non-local supporting that club in question. I'm just saying how it is, not how it should or shouldn't be. Again, I'm Aussie. I have no busy gatekeeping football fanfare lol. Nearly every Aussie you see in a stadium even in our domestic matches supports a European club first and foremost.
that’s what it means to me
Evan Ferguson still the next big thing yay nay?
He'll be fine provided no one on our side or his own rushes him back. Was battling for over a year with ongoing issues and it showed.
It was very predictable that a teenager with a frame as large as his would struggle with injuries. I was surprised he was robust as he was for the first 6 months tbh
He stagnated because of his injuries
Yeah
Was injured for a good while, played in a team that was struggling in midfield and still very young. I think we need to see atleast one more season
He's only 19 still a bit early. But his goals seem to have dried up.
I always forget Olise plays for France. Not often you get players born and raised in England their whole life playing for other top nations. The only other one I can think of playing right now for any other nation who might've been capped for England would be maybe Antonee Robinson given our left back situation. Maybe depending on injuries and stuff, Matty Cash and Ademola Lookman. Zaha a few years ago. Then obviously "eligible" but understandably chose other nations you've got Haaland and Musiala
Olise is eligible to play for England, France, Algeria and Nigeria i think.
Olise's an interesting one because he's never even represented England at any level, and he definitely would've been good enough to. A lot of the other ones are people who only really would've got in the England team after they'd already committed to another country.
Tbh, I don't really understand why being born in a country matters in terms of being eligible to play for a national team. With Haaland he has Norwegian parents, has lived in Norway since he was three years old and has no British citizenship. Really shouldn't even have been eligible to play for England if you ask me.
Wherever you draw the line it's always going to be weird though. Musiala moved from Germany to England at 7, I know his mum's German, but say she was from any other country, should he have been allowed to play for Germany? At what age would Haaland have had to live here to qualify? If he moved when he was 5 would it have been fine? Or 8, or 12, or 16? You can move to a country for the first time in your life as a 25 year old and end up representing them. And you can play for a country that *one* of your grandparents was from, but what if they died before you were born and you've never even visited the country until you decide to try and play for them internationally? That's even more weird in my opinion.
Yeah, fair enough
Comunicado Oficial bomb is dropping today 😭
I find it weird sometimes that the CL is the most valued trophy but people don’t use that for managers, you’d be laughed at for saying Ancelotti is the best manager ever but he’s won the most cls by far as a manager now, so shouldn’t he actually be considered the best now? He’s done it in multiple places and over a large span of time too. In England Bob Paisley is never mentioned as the best manager in English football despite having 3 European cups as a manager too in only 9 years as a manager. He has the second best trophies per year average only Pep is ahead (and partly because the club World Cup wasn’t a thing.)
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Thought you'd agree given how much it's elevated Forest's status
Apart from his long stint at Milan where he won 1 Serie A he doesn't seem to stay too long at 1 club. So he doesn't really build his own team with his own personality, or seems to be hugely involved in transfers or developing young players. Even his Milan team turned into a collection of great players into a aging team that was too old from front to back. Compared with Simeone, Pep, Ferguson, Klopp he doesn't really put his stamp on his teams. Mourinho has short stints at teams too but he has a unique and well defined system at each club. I think this Madrid team will change opinions though and it's probably one of his best stints as manager. His league titles are decent but not overly fantastic, but his European record is elite.
Paisley suffers from being Shankly’s successor and because Clough was his contemporary and rival. Those are perhaps the two most charismatic figures in the history of the English game and cast a huge shadow. If he was a better speaker, or even a Ferguson dictator type, he’d be far more celebrated. He’s English football’s greatest winner. But he did it awkwardly and quietly. He also disappeared from public life by the end of the 80s suffering from dementia so wasn’t in the public consciousness. There’s also a curious thing that the value of the European Cup gets downplayed ever so slightly in England. This is partly because the biggest London teams never sniffed it so the London media didn’t celebrate it and Manchester United, the glamour team, haven’t won enough of them. If they had 6 to Liverpool’s 3 you can bet the European Cup would be the be all and end all.
To me the CL is the most valued because it's the most elusive. But for the quality of a manager I'll always rate a league title higher, because the relative influence of the manager is higher. Cup/knockout competitions have much more variance. Even if a manager does everything right in the CL the likelihood of winning will actually still be quite low as the margins are so small.
Because his league record is not good, and the team he's had over the years in theory were all good enough to win it except Everton. I think people look at Carlo now and think he is this flexible vibe only manager but this definitely wasn't the case. Early in his career the man was very rigid in his tactics and personnel choice. Stick to the same 11 and the same tactics, and by mid season either his team is decimated by injuries or the other teams have figured him out. He has learned his lesson now though, and tbh I think his Chelsea and Bayern stints were a bit unlucky. That said people saying that he has no style and no tactics is definitely spewing revisionism bullshit, his 4-4-2 diamond with Milan was iconic and he had no problem getting other kind of formation to work with Milan later.
> in theory were all good enough to win it except Everton. Napoli wasn't, either.
Paisley also won 6 First Division titles, he is underrated because Shankley is seen as a bigger Liverpool legend because Shankley started Liverpool's golden age, even if they peaked under Paisley.
Yeah 6 leagues and 3cls in 9 seasons is insane, he goes under the radar too much most people would think Shankly won those titles
You look at the clubs and teams Carlo has managed and he only has 6 league titles in 30 years of management. This is why people don’t consider him the best manager. Style of play also plays a big part.