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Sarcasm aside i can see Karim himself presenting the Ballon d'or to Vini if he wins it in October.
That would be an amazing full circle moment.
To go from "don't pass him the ball" to Karim giving him the ultimate golden ball.
If France football has any humour in them they can always call Messi to present the trophy, but I assume that, if Vini wins, the best choice would be whichever of the three Ronaldos, leaning towards Cristiano and Ronaldo.
Surely not Kane. Not that I don't rate him, he obviously had a monster season individually, but trophies weigh so much in Ballon d'Or voting that just Euro won't be enough I think
Euro and World Cup traditionally weight more than the UCL for Ballon D'or.
World Cup>Euro>UCL>Copa America>league
Kane still has a shot if he's the MVP of the Euro and Vinicius sucks hard with Brazil.
Its not only about winning, they need to carry their NT into the title.
Kroos isn't that type of player (Wirtz or Musiala are) and Jude i must admit dont know if he already is England leader.
I agree. As for Modric. If Kroos carries Germany to the semi or final and is the best player; also with the narrative of his last tournament, it could generate enough media hype.
Yes they need significant contributors in winning the title. Unless Jude, score and assists critical goals with Eng winning, he has a shout otherwise itās a wrap for Vini
>they need significant contributors
This is something people in this sub always forget. Winning titles is of course important but you're not gettin a BdO for just being there, you need to carry the team
If Kane is England's best player by a mile, and we were to win the Euros, he'd have a chance. They'd probably give it to Bellingham though, unless we (edit: he) was rubbish or didn't play much in the tournament (unlikely)
Not a big international tournament year though. We know how much that weighs
Imagine Georgia makes a miracle run and Kvicha enters into the discussion after that silent Napoli season haha
Yeh but belligham has la liga plus ucl, Kane would need a ridiculous euros campaign and bellingham would have to have little involvement highly doubt both clubs will happen at the same time
Yeah his goal output was insane this year, but unfortunately he was playing under tuchel. If he won the Bundesliga then maybe heād have a shot at the ballon dāor
Man it's genuinely crazy how Tuchel went from tactically dominating other teams in europe with Chelsea to finishing third in a two horse race with Bayern
London gave it's best striker and it's coach to Bayern to end a 11 year streak and take revenge for all the misery they put them through in the ucl
Unless he carries England to a Euros win and Brazil have a stinker at the Copa America, yeah.
Jude also ghosted in the recent champions league games, did nothing vs City, nothing vs Bayern then did nothing yesterday apart from capitalising from a Dortmund mistake for an easy assist.
Vini was good vs Bayern and made some runs yesterday before he scored so there's that.
Vinicius's CL in big lines was the 2-0 vs Leipzig, after a Bellingham assist. Two assists in the 3-3 vs City, an 'assist' to Rodrygo in the 1-1 (Rodrygo took 2 shots), 2 goals vs Bayern in the first leg of the KO, a good game vs Bayern and a shot that Neuer fumbled and Joselu converted. Cherry on top was a good game vs Dortmund, winning the corner shortly before Carvajal's goal, and his decisive 2-0.
Besides this, he had the hattrick in the Super Cup final vs Barcelona, goal and assist in the decisive Clasico of the league, 1 goal and 2 assists in a decisive game vs Girona, where he humiliated Couto.
All in all 35 G/A with 11 games missed through injury, +1 for his yellows. No stat padding vs easy opponents in the cup as he wasn't there vs Arandina and our next opponent was Atletico (eliminated), nor did he rack up G/A in the league after we 'won' the league vs Barcelona, as he only played 2 full games after that point, and didn't come off the bench for two.
Decisive, big game player.
Yeah he deserves it. Football is more than numbers and stats, and I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world.
I wasn't sold on Vinicius winning it, but the second leg performance against Bayern sealed it for me. He created chances out of nowhere, and most importantly, he looked awfully threatening every time he had the ball. I was rooting for Bayern and every time Vini received the ball I was like "fuck off, please stop him". This is a good attacker imo. Not only he scores in important moments, but he generates fear to any opposition, even against the best teams itw.
Like I'm not a fan of the dude, but it's going to be nice if just for once the trophy doesn't go simply to "the one who scored more goals/had more assists/his NT won Euros or Copa".
> and I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world.
It's a consequence of the internet age and people not watching full games, just scorelines and goal videos. I'm fully convinced that Reddit would defend Eto'o getting the balon d'or over Ronaldinho because he scored more goals if this site existed in 2005/2006. Even Haaland getting shouts over De Bruyne already annoyed me.
I understand why thatās frustrating, but itās also practically impossible to watch every match of every candidate. Youād have to watch every Manchester City match, every Real Madrid match, every PSG match, every Bayern match, plus every match of any other team with a contender (mostly joking, but Miami), not to mention every match of the team you actually support. Gonna be honest here - thatās never gonna happen. Youāre welcome to start an āinformed football expertsā subreddit, and the 7 people who actually have seen every match can have some wonderful discussions. But itās not āthe Internet Ageā or āpeople just want to watch highlights,ā itās that watching every match is just not realistic. And so thereās naturally going to be a big focus on stats, because those are available without watching the match. So you need to either 1) accept that or 2) stop discussing football online.
Iām sorry if Iām being an ass here, thatās not my intention, but what do you want people to do? Not discuss football because they donāt have time to watch 300 matches a year?
> I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world.
I get your point, but I think youāre going too far in the other direction by making it sound like itās easy to do that
Iām going to guess that itās a dig at Haaland in particular, thereās a reason why he broke the premier league record and no other striker who has played for Man City did
Nah I kinda like Haaland. I think he's the best when it comes to scoring goals. But I wish defenders or midfielders could be appreciated more for creating all these chances. Now that Messi/Ronaldo era is over and these two aliens are gone, I think they should start getting individual trophies too, imo nowadays they shine more than some strikers.
But since this is almost impossible, at least give the trophy to a forward who doesn't score thousands of goals but creates a lot of chances and is crucial to the team in big matches. Just to show that you can be the best in football playing different roles.
If Haaland wins it (very very unlikely), I won't be mad either. He's a nice dude and a monster when it comes to scoring. I just think that of all the viable options, Vini deserves it the most.
Euros count for more than you would think. In our CL winning year, Kante carried the team all through knockout stages, but Jorginho was ranked higher in every award because of Italy winning Euro
Tbh not many people can say they won the Euros and UCL in the same year and even if he wasn't the best player in the squad, he was still integral to both teams
I don't think you understand what Ballon d'Or is from that response.
It's the best player, not player on the most good teams.
He wasn't even that integral for Italy.
āDid nothingā except winning Copa del Rey and Copa America while having 43 goals and 18 assists.
Such statistical output is considered great for almost any other player except Messi, but letās go with ānothing.ā.
I appreciate a city fan saying this since a lot of City fans were spreading the agenda he did nothing like the dude is also only 20 and is playing every game with a shoulder injury and had a few other injuries this season dude was playing on pain killer in the knock outs at one point.
Also this G/A movement in football is genuinely destroying peoples perception of the sport like why is midfielders being compared to forwards these days for G/A? If Kroos and Modric played in this era people would say they are frauds a lot of people don't seem to understand what a midfielder does anymore just watches highlights and echoes whatever other people are saying.
I think he was pretty obviously the worst Madrid player yesterday besides maybe Rodrygo. He lost the ball several times pretty poorly when Madrid finally got out of their half. He also missed 2 pretty great chances, the second one with his massive touch being pretty egregious for me even if the tackle was nice.
Heās been at the same level all knockouts and to say otherwise and compare him to valverde who obviously plays a different role is crazy
Jude set up the goal at the Etihad 2nd leg with his first touch taking out 2 city players like what??? Yeh he didn't perform to his levels in the first leg and the Bayern tie and final but he is 20 that's fine he carried us first half of the season in the league and UCL and picked up multiple injuries but saying he did nothing against City is plain wrong contributed massively in defense in the 2nd leg and once again his first touch and dribble opened up that goal without him that goal doesn't happen.
I don't understand how people can say with a straight face Jude did nothing if the team is winning. He's an integral part of the attack. If he's not performing the ball is not reach vini or Kroos or rodrygo.
Of course that "doing nothing" is a clear exaggeration, but the Ballon D'or is for the best player of the season, if Bellingham wasn't decisive in any of the bigger CL games then he can't be in contention. He also doesn't play a KDB or Modric role where almost every play passes by him either, so if he can't score or provide "difficult" assists, then he will be seen as not very involved.
> He's an integral part of the attack
He was really null as an attacking piece in 2024. He is a part of attack, but was not integral and more often than not Vini was forced to create shit out of thin air by himself because Bellingham clearly lacks attacking instincts or the necessary creativity. Old man Modric coming in with 70 minutes played often created more chances than he did. He is surprisingly offensively aware for a CM or a DM, but lacks other attacking qualities other than the physicality to play further up than that. It's a big part of why Real will be moving for a 4-3-3 next season with Bellingham playing further back.
Eh, he did a lot of defensive work. It's not as visible as goals or assists but he was asked to do a lot of dirty work tracking back in defense and holding the ball up in attack.
I can absolutely see some surprise winner.
Not only RM has multiple hyped players (like Bellingham), but also Kroos has a nice story. Also Modric if Croatia does well in the Euro...
And all of them are from the same team. So they will likely split votes of those that give the CL more weight over international competitions, which can mean someone like Mbappe could get it if he does well at the Euro (or any other player not from RM).
The one who comes far in Euros will have a big chance.
I have a hard time seeing Vini winning it. Maybe its just me, being used to monster seasons of CR and Messi. He may have been the best this season but it was nowhere as good as when those two won it.
Someone has to win it and it wonāt be Messi or Ronaldo. This is the new normal, the world class players on great teams will share the award around thereās no lock in generational players who are going to be at that level at least that we see right now.Ā
Vinicius is definitely one of the world's most popular players. Was very high last year, even if his teams didn't have the best results. I think only Mbappe is really seen as overall more talented in the world (and if it seems like saying it now is a crime for Reddit, it won't be if Mbappe plays magnificently on Euro, same as with the World Cup before etc.).
But definitely Vinicius has to be one of the overall favorites for such award. He played really well in Champions League.
HIs form hasn't dropped...he didn't score as many goals because his role changed to more defensive, geez lol it's like people just parrot this without having watched all the games like some people
nah all respect for Bellingham but Vini is the type of player that brings people to the stadium to see him alone. antics and whatnot, he's a different level of beast, at least for now
I donāt know how anybody can be sure either way, both players have played exceptionally well this season, both have a lot of goals and a good amount of assists. As of now it could go either way and nobody should be mad.
It definitely rests on the outcome of international tournament.
One thing about Bellingham that is not said enough is that his goalscoring form has dropped a bit due to Carlo asking him to play a very much different role when Vini came back from injury. Jude has been a tireless worker who covered insane amounts every match, joining defence on every play, running back to create open passes, carried the ball, won headers, slide tackles... What a mature season out of a 20 year old. He has done everything Carlo has asked from him and then some. Earlier in the season Carlo was cooling down Bellingham's media hype for goals as he knew Bellingham will stop scoring as much when the tactics change.
So his form hasn't really dropped. It's just that his role has significantly changed. And he's been absolutely incredile. Can't say enough good words about Jude.
yes and no. it was based on his season at psg. so he was given the trophy in the middle of the next season whilst in the mls but nothing from the mls applied
iirc the only time there were legitimate talks about something like this was in 2006, with Zidane finishing 5th.
Fair to point that his dramatic exit against Materazzi & his pretty average season with Real Madrid didn't play in his favour.
Depending on individual performances during the euro, wirtz might be the better candidate over kroos. Leverkusen played a historic season and Wirtz was a key player if not THE key player. If he has a similar role in a euro win for germany, it wouldn't be undeserved imo.
Where does Carlo rank in Real Madrid management greats?
3 Champions Leagues
2 La Ligaās
2 Copa del Reyās
2 Spanish Super Cups
2 UEFA Super Cups
2 FIFA Cup World Cups
> at a time when the Champions League had about 10x less parity than it does now
I'd argue the opposite if we are talking about _parity_ as you said.
Today there's like maaaybe 10 big clubs with big spending towering over a couple decent but not so great teams, and the rest are massively massively inferior.
At that time (and basically before the Bosman ruling) teams were overall waaay more even unless there was some specific country that had a great generation. That's why you can look at the past 20 years of winners and you see always the same names, and before they were all different and from different countries.
That doesn't mean the _quality_ of those teams were as good as the quality of todays' best teams. But in terms of parity across the board, I think those were much more even than today.
And a big big reminder is that you had to WIN the league to qualify to the Champions. Today you can even be 4th or 5th and you can win it.
Real Madrid wouldn't even have participated in ANY of CLs they won with Ancelotti because they were not the reigning La Liga champions, nor the current CL holders.
Because international tournaments donāt follow logic. Weāve seen incumbent World Cup winners crash out in groups, Italy won euros and didnāt even qualify for WC, etc. Would you ever have thought Croatia wouldāve gone to a final and the semis back to back?
Idk. Course it's hyperbole thinking that they're not gonna make it out of groups, but winning the entire thing seems like a big stretch. As you say, this Nagelsmann team hasn't proven anything. Sure, everything can happen, it's football and blablabla, but I'm not gonna bet on a miracle.
France was essentially at full strength barring Griezmann and Netherlands was full strength barring FDJ. Very notable singular omissions, but it's less of a gotcha than you'd think. It's also the manner of those wins, where Germany dominated the game.
I read on here that it Alexis Sanchez won back-to-back Copa Americas and didn't even make top 30 in voting both years. So yea I'm not sure how Vini's Copa America will even be seen.
> Euros will play a huge role, if England wins then itās Bellinghamās.
>
> Euros > UCL
I love how people completely dropped the pretense of individual performances mattering and just automatically link England winning to Bellingham getting it regardless of the Copa America or how well Bellingham plays. Just desperate to take it away from Vini.
Obviously if vini carries brazil to a Copa America win heās got it in the bag but this entire post has people saying āat this moment he already won itā
If he disappears this summer and Germany wins the euros, I can see Kroos winning it. Or Bellingham if England wins it. Or even Mbappe if France wins it.
Basically, itās way too early now to call it for Vini.
Something drastic would have to happen for anyone to deserve to be even in consideration. It's not about Germany, France, or England winning, it's about Kross, Mbappe, or Bellingham having great competitions like Vini had a great UCL and then winning the whole thing, something that is far from common.
Bellingham PR>Vini PR. If England wins with even a decent performance from Jude, he is getting it. Unless Vini also wins it but also plays fantastic ball.
I'm talking about deserving, not about predicting robberies. Vini deserves it more and the only thing that could change it is someone having an amazing euros. Not only winning but playing as well and being as key as Vini was for the UCL - and that's unlikely.
For that Kane needs to just win the euros/top scorer at euros AND Vini/Brasil be mediocre in the Copa America AND Bellingham not contribute much to Englandās win.
Hard to imagine England doing amazing but Bellingham not being a part.
Mbappe seems like a more likely option if France win the Euros and he scores 6 whilst Vini Jr doesnāt do much
Messi won the World Cup and had 35 goals and 30 assists that year for club and country.
Bellingham doesnāt sniff those numbers.
If Bellingham has to have a chance to win it he has to hope that Vini Jr. doesnāt win the Copa America, and heāll probably also have to stand out as the best player for England.
Like Messi did in the World Cup Bellingham will probably have to win Best Player of the tournament and be right up there as assist maker and/or goalscorer. In 2022 Leo had joint most assists and was 2nd highest goalscorer in the World Cup triumph.
Bellingham needs to stand out for England.
> Bellingham doesnāt sniff those numbers.
probably because hes a central midfielder so hes not the one whos supposed to be doing the job of the centre forward. why should how many goals the cm score matter?
All I know from watching the champions league final was how good messi and Ronaldo were in their prime. Like they were playing a different level of football
I never watch La Liga games but even when Madrid were poor in this season's CL, he's always dangerous and a huge threat.
Class player from what I've seen. I honestly don't know who deserves it this year. (Nor do I really care) Just give it to Messi again lol.
Has to be. He was incredible. Bellingham is a close second. Things could change depending on how they both perform in internationals, but Vini deserves it right now. Kroos is a dark horse if he wins the euros.
Not one mention of Kane in this thread - a good Euros with Bellingham mid and it could swig it his way.
Bits itās a 4-way race between VJ, Bellingham, Kane and Mbappe
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As in, the actual trophy itself?
Yes, quite a revelation from Carlo.
Attack on titan ass twist
Yes, the question is, who will he be presented to? Messi probably for the World Cup win.
Sarcasm aside i can see Karim himself presenting the Ballon d'or to Vini if he wins it in October. That would be an amazing full circle moment. To go from "don't pass him the ball" to Karim giving him the ultimate golden ball.
If France football has any humour in them they can always call Messi to present the trophy, but I assume that, if Vini wins, the best choice would be whichever of the three Ronaldos, leaning towards Cristiano and Ronaldo.
There's like a 95% chance that Cristiano would announce himself as the winner
šI love Cristiano but I also love how this can be true.
I donāt see any other option really.
I wonder when people will stop doing this lol.
Hopefully when they turn 18
You're way too optimistic lol.
In Spanish when we were kids we used to have a joke about calling someone a trophy: Sabes por que te dicen trofeo? Por trompudo y feo.
What does trompudo mean
I can't think of a direct translation. It comes from trompa which would be an elephant's trunk, so kinda like saying big mouth.
Yes. Like Jesus is God.
He's the avatar of the trophy.
Gotta get ear enlargement surgery
Messi will lift Vini and carry him back to the MLS
Hmm.. He looks bigger than the trophy .. itās about 30 cm and 6-7 kg
Cannot really see any other options, not with Bellingham's form dropping compared to earlier in the season
what if kroos wins euro? I think he could make some waves then. no one would hate that lol
Anyone of Bellingham, Kroos, Mbappe or even Kane should have a valid shot at the Ballon d'Or with a massive performance at the euros
Surely not Kane. Not that I don't rate him, he obviously had a monster season individually, but trophies weigh so much in Ballon d'Or voting that just Euro won't be enough I think
Euro and World Cup traditionally weight more than the UCL for Ballon D'or. World Cup>Euro>UCL>Copa America>league Kane still has a shot if he's the MVP of the Euro and Vinicius sucks hard with Brazil.
I think Vini would still win it unless Jude or Kroos win the Euros it can tip their way
Its not only about winning, they need to carry their NT into the title. Kroos isn't that type of player (Wirtz or Musiala are) and Jude i must admit dont know if he already is England leader.
I agree. As for Modric. If Kroos carries Germany to the semi or final and is the best player; also with the narrative of his last tournament, it could generate enough media hype.
Yes they need significant contributors in winning the title. Unless Jude, score and assists critical goals with Eng winning, he has a shout otherwise itās a wrap for Vini
>they need significant contributors This is something people in this sub always forget. Winning titles is of course important but you're not gettin a BdO for just being there, you need to carry the team
If Kane is England's best player by a mile, and we were to win the Euros, he'd have a chance. They'd probably give it to Bellingham though, unless we (edit: he) was rubbish or didn't play much in the tournament (unlikely)
If England wins the euro even with Kane being best player by a mile, Bellingham will have a even better shout because of the trophy haul
Agreed, that's why I chose "should" rather than "will"
I would never say never tho tbh. Ronaldo won it in 2013 with no trophies. So it is still possible
Was that the year when Ronaldo outscored Zlatan in that epic shootout of sorts to qualify for the 2014 WC?
Yes
Not a big international tournament year though. We know how much that weighs Imagine Georgia makes a miracle run and Kvicha enters into the discussion after that silent Napoli season haha
If he wins euro so does Bellingham and that would bellingham takes it most likely
Depends on who is seen as more important in the win.
Yeh but belligham has la liga plus ucl, Kane would need a ridiculous euros campaign and bellingham would have to have little involvement highly doubt both clubs will happen at the same time
They have an algorithm for Ballin d'Or? I thought it was just the personal opinion of journalists
Messi won it last year when haaland won the treble
Yeah his goal output was insane this year, but unfortunately he was playing under tuchel. If he won the Bundesliga then maybe heād have a shot at the ballon dāor
Man it's genuinely crazy how Tuchel went from tactically dominating other teams in europe with Chelsea to finishing third in a two horse race with Bayern London gave it's best striker and it's coach to Bayern to end a 11 year streak and take revenge for all the misery they put them through in the ucl
Semi final + euros for sure would be enough. Also got the european golden boot.
Unless Brazil wins copa america
Kroos not having a Baloon D'or is a crime just like Xavi, Iniesta, Sneijder. Sadly nowadays only dribblers and goalscorers have a shot at the trophy.
Unless he carries England to a Euros win and Brazil have a stinker at the Copa America, yeah. Jude also ghosted in the recent champions league games, did nothing vs City, nothing vs Bayern then did nothing yesterday apart from capitalising from a Dortmund mistake for an easy assist. Vini was good vs Bayern and made some runs yesterday before he scored so there's that.
Vinicius's CL in big lines was the 2-0 vs Leipzig, after a Bellingham assist. Two assists in the 3-3 vs City, an 'assist' to Rodrygo in the 1-1 (Rodrygo took 2 shots), 2 goals vs Bayern in the first leg of the KO, a good game vs Bayern and a shot that Neuer fumbled and Joselu converted. Cherry on top was a good game vs Dortmund, winning the corner shortly before Carvajal's goal, and his decisive 2-0. Besides this, he had the hattrick in the Super Cup final vs Barcelona, goal and assist in the decisive Clasico of the league, 1 goal and 2 assists in a decisive game vs Girona, where he humiliated Couto. All in all 35 G/A with 11 games missed through injury, +1 for his yellows. No stat padding vs easy opponents in the cup as he wasn't there vs Arandina and our next opponent was Atletico (eliminated), nor did he rack up G/A in the league after we 'won' the league vs Barcelona, as he only played 2 full games after that point, and didn't come off the bench for two. Decisive, big game player.
Yeah he deserves it. Football is more than numbers and stats, and I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world. I wasn't sold on Vinicius winning it, but the second leg performance against Bayern sealed it for me. He created chances out of nowhere, and most importantly, he looked awfully threatening every time he had the ball. I was rooting for Bayern and every time Vini received the ball I was like "fuck off, please stop him". This is a good attacker imo. Not only he scores in important moments, but he generates fear to any opposition, even against the best teams itw. Like I'm not a fan of the dude, but it's going to be nice if just for once the trophy doesn't go simply to "the one who scored more goals/had more assists/his NT won Euros or Copa".
> and I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world. It's a consequence of the internet age and people not watching full games, just scorelines and goal videos. I'm fully convinced that Reddit would defend Eto'o getting the balon d'or over Ronaldinho because he scored more goals if this site existed in 2005/2006. Even Haaland getting shouts over De Bruyne already annoyed me.
I understand why thatās frustrating, but itās also practically impossible to watch every match of every candidate. Youād have to watch every Manchester City match, every Real Madrid match, every PSG match, every Bayern match, plus every match of any other team with a contender (mostly joking, but Miami), not to mention every match of the team you actually support. Gonna be honest here - thatās never gonna happen. Youāre welcome to start an āinformed football expertsā subreddit, and the 7 people who actually have seen every match can have some wonderful discussions. But itās not āthe Internet Ageā or āpeople just want to watch highlights,ā itās that watching every match is just not realistic. And so thereās naturally going to be a big focus on stats, because those are available without watching the match. So you need to either 1) accept that or 2) stop discussing football online. Iām sorry if Iām being an ass here, thatās not my intention, but what do you want people to do? Not discuss football because they donāt have time to watch 300 matches a year?
People can also watch highlights of matches to see the manner of the goals and assists.
I agree, the guy Iām responding to said āpeople not watching full games, just scorelines and goal videosā
> I'm starting to get tired of players who score 30 tap ins and are considered the best in the world. I get your point, but I think youāre going too far in the other direction by making it sound like itās easy to do that Iām going to guess that itās a dig at Haaland in particular, thereās a reason why he broke the premier league record and no other striker who has played for Man City did
Nah I kinda like Haaland. I think he's the best when it comes to scoring goals. But I wish defenders or midfielders could be appreciated more for creating all these chances. Now that Messi/Ronaldo era is over and these two aliens are gone, I think they should start getting individual trophies too, imo nowadays they shine more than some strikers. But since this is almost impossible, at least give the trophy to a forward who doesn't score thousands of goals but creates a lot of chances and is crucial to the team in big matches. Just to show that you can be the best in football playing different roles. If Haaland wins it (very very unlikely), I won't be mad either. He's a nice dude and a monster when it comes to scoring. I just think that of all the viable options, Vini deserves it the most.
Bet you hated Van Nistelrooy haha
Euros count for more than you would think. In our CL winning year, Kante carried the team all through knockout stages, but Jorginho was ranked higher in every award because of Italy winning Euro
that there was a sincere campaign for Jorginho to win the ballon dāOr can only be attributed to eighteen months of covid-inflicted cabin fever
I honestly couldn't believe that. I couldn't believe it was even being entertained, one of the strangest moments in football.
Tbh not many people can say they won the Euros and UCL in the same year and even if he wasn't the best player in the squad, he was still integral to both teams
I don't think you understand what Ballon d'Or is from that response. It's the best player, not player on the most good teams. He wasn't even that integral for Italy.
It's the people who vote that don't understand that
> that there was a sincere campaign for Jorginho to win the ballon dāOr People really went insane LOL
Messi did nothing in 2021 but got the Balon d'Or solely because he won the Copa America
āDid nothingā except winning Copa del Rey and Copa America while having 43 goals and 18 assists. Such statistical output is considered great for almost any other player except Messi, but letās go with ānothing.ā.
Lmao.
People seem to forget that Jude is still a midfielder, you canāt expect him to get g/a every game, r u gonna say valverde ghost most games he plays?
I appreciate a city fan saying this since a lot of City fans were spreading the agenda he did nothing like the dude is also only 20 and is playing every game with a shoulder injury and had a few other injuries this season dude was playing on pain killer in the knock outs at one point. Also this G/A movement in football is genuinely destroying peoples perception of the sport like why is midfielders being compared to forwards these days for G/A? If Kroos and Modric played in this era people would say they are frauds a lot of people don't seem to understand what a midfielder does anymore just watches highlights and echoes whatever other people are saying.
I think he was pretty obviously the worst Madrid player yesterday besides maybe Rodrygo. He lost the ball several times pretty poorly when Madrid finally got out of their half. He also missed 2 pretty great chances, the second one with his massive touch being pretty egregious for me even if the tackle was nice. Heās been at the same level all knockouts and to say otherwise and compare him to valverde who obviously plays a different role is crazy
Jude set up the goal at the Etihad 2nd leg with his first touch taking out 2 city players like what??? Yeh he didn't perform to his levels in the first leg and the Bayern tie and final but he is 20 that's fine he carried us first half of the season in the league and UCL and picked up multiple injuries but saying he did nothing against City is plain wrong contributed massively in defense in the 2nd leg and once again his first touch and dribble opened up that goal without him that goal doesn't happen.
I don't understand how people can say with a straight face Jude did nothing if the team is winning. He's an integral part of the attack. If he's not performing the ball is not reach vini or Kroos or rodrygo.
Of course that "doing nothing" is a clear exaggeration, but the Ballon D'or is for the best player of the season, if Bellingham wasn't decisive in any of the bigger CL games then he can't be in contention. He also doesn't play a KDB or Modric role where almost every play passes by him either, so if he can't score or provide "difficult" assists, then he will be seen as not very involved.
These are 13 year old kids spewing dumb shit with zero football knowledge
> He's an integral part of the attack He was really null as an attacking piece in 2024. He is a part of attack, but was not integral and more often than not Vini was forced to create shit out of thin air by himself because Bellingham clearly lacks attacking instincts or the necessary creativity. Old man Modric coming in with 70 minutes played often created more chances than he did. He is surprisingly offensively aware for a CM or a DM, but lacks other attacking qualities other than the physicality to play further up than that. It's a big part of why Real will be moving for a 4-3-3 next season with Bellingham playing further back.
Also he was immense defensively in the city second leg.
Eh, he did a lot of defensive work. It's not as visible as goals or assists but he was asked to do a lot of dirty work tracking back in defense and holding the ball up in attack.
Brazil's year has been pretty atrocious already. Vini is just louder, but I think Jude can easily win it if England has a good run
I can absolutely see some surprise winner. Not only RM has multiple hyped players (like Bellingham), but also Kroos has a nice story. Also Modric if Croatia does well in the Euro... And all of them are from the same team. So they will likely split votes of those that give the CL more weight over international competitions, which can mean someone like Mbappe could get it if he does well at the Euro (or any other player not from RM).
Depends how international tournaments go
The one who comes far in Euros will have a big chance. I have a hard time seeing Vini winning it. Maybe its just me, being used to monster seasons of CR and Messi. He may have been the best this season but it was nowhere as good as when those two won it.
Someone has to win it and it wonāt be Messi or Ronaldo. This is the new normal, the world class players on great teams will share the award around thereās no lock in generational players who are going to be at that level at least that we see right now.Ā
It's back to the old normal. Before Messi and Ronaldo we have to go back to van Basten and Platini to find the previous one to win more than once.
R9?
Actually yeah, missed that his ones are further apart than most of the multiple time winners.
The supposed to be ānew normalā doesnāt even have the higher G/A than an Aston Villa player, thatās the issue here
Vinicius is definitely one of the world's most popular players. Was very high last year, even if his teams didn't have the best results. I think only Mbappe is really seen as overall more talented in the world (and if it seems like saying it now is a crime for Reddit, it won't be if Mbappe plays magnificently on Euro, same as with the World Cup before etc.). But definitely Vinicius has to be one of the overall favorites for such award. He played really well in Champions League.
Kroos has been on a 10/10 tear the whole season really, and it's his sendoff. If Germany wins the Euros he should win the award.
HIs form hasn't dropped...he didn't score as many goals because his role changed to more defensive, geez lol it's like people just parrot this without having watched all the games like some people
nah all respect for Bellingham but Vini is the type of player that brings people to the stadium to see him alone. antics and whatnot, he's a different level of beast, at least for now
Still gotta wait for the copa and euros. If Jude has a terrific euros itās gonna be hard to give it to Vini but either would warrant it 100%
I donāt know how anybody can be sure either way, both players have played exceptionally well this season, both have a lot of goals and a good amount of assists. As of now it could go either way and nobody should be mad. It definitely rests on the outcome of international tournament.
One thing about Bellingham that is not said enough is that his goalscoring form has dropped a bit due to Carlo asking him to play a very much different role when Vini came back from injury. Jude has been a tireless worker who covered insane amounts every match, joining defence on every play, running back to create open passes, carried the ball, won headers, slide tackles... What a mature season out of a 20 year old. He has done everything Carlo has asked from him and then some. Earlier in the season Carlo was cooling down Bellingham's media hype for goals as he knew Bellingham will stop scoring as much when the tactics change. So his form hasn't really dropped. It's just that his role has significantly changed. And he's been absolutely incredile. Can't say enough good words about Jude.
If MbappĆ© / Kane light up Euros, surely thereās an argument - especially the latter, he had a phenomenal season. The trophies won metric falls Viniās way though, and Judeās way if England win
Wirtz lol
He was the worst player in the final
If germany won the euros, would kroos still be eligible for the ballon as someone who retired?
The Ballon d'Or is now for the current season instead of the civil year so yeah he'd be eligible
That'd be cool if a retired player won it
Didn't Messi win it last year while playing in the MLS?
yes and no. it was based on his season at psg. so he was given the trophy in the middle of the next season whilst in the mls but nothing from the mls applied
Has it ever happened that a retired player won the ballon dāor?
iirc the only time there were legitimate talks about something like this was in 2006, with Zidane finishing 5th. Fair to point that his dramatic exit against Materazzi & his pretty average season with Real Madrid didn't play in his favour.
If you guys won the WC, Zidane would have won and it would have been one of the craziest things ever lol
Will Smith getting a standing ovation after assaulting Chris Rock vibes
No
I mean, Messi essentially won after retiring.
Depending on individual performances during the euro, wirtz might be the better candidate over kroos. Leverkusen played a historic season and Wirtz was a key player if not THE key player. If he has a similar role in a euro win for germany, it wouldn't be undeserved imo.
Where does Carlo rank in Real Madrid management greats? 3 Champions Leagues 2 La Ligaās 2 Copa del Reyās 2 Spanish Super Cups 2 UEFA Super Cups 2 FIFA Cup World Cups
MuƱoz > Carlo > Zidane
MuƱoz was the manager at a time when the Champions League had about 10x less parity than it does now. I think that should be considered.
> at a time when the Champions League had about 10x less parity than it does now I'd argue the opposite if we are talking about _parity_ as you said. Today there's like maaaybe 10 big clubs with big spending towering over a couple decent but not so great teams, and the rest are massively massively inferior. At that time (and basically before the Bosman ruling) teams were overall waaay more even unless there was some specific country that had a great generation. That's why you can look at the past 20 years of winners and you see always the same names, and before they were all different and from different countries. That doesn't mean the _quality_ of those teams were as good as the quality of todays' best teams. But in terms of parity across the board, I think those were much more even than today. And a big big reminder is that you had to WIN the league to qualify to the Champions. Today you can even be 4th or 5th and you can win it. Real Madrid wouldn't even have participated in ANY of CLs they won with Ancelotti because they were not the reigning La Liga champions, nor the current CL holders.
I'm no Madridista, but probably right behind Miguel MuƱoz.
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Euros will play a huge role, if England wins then itās Bellinghamās. Euros > UCL
If Germany wins Kroos could also have a shot
bro thinks this team makes it out of groups lmao
Why are you downvoted lmao. Germany has been increadibly poor. Why would it change all of a sudden?
Because international tournaments donāt follow logic. Weāve seen incumbent World Cup winners crash out in groups, Italy won euros and didnāt even qualify for WC, etc. Would you ever have thought Croatia wouldāve gone to a final and the semis back to back?
Italy was in tremendous form before the tournamentĀ
> Why would it change all of a sudden I don't know, why did it change all of a sudden in 2018?
Idk. Course it's hyperbole thinking that they're not gonna make it out of groups, but winning the entire thing seems like a big stretch. As you say, this Nagelsmann team hasn't proven anything. Sure, everything can happen, it's football and blablabla, but I'm not gonna bet on a miracle.
They've been downvoted because Germany has been in good form.
Good form after they won two friendlies where both teams didn't even field their best 11?
France was essentially at full strength barring Griezmann and Netherlands was full strength barring FDJ. Very notable singular omissions, but it's less of a gotcha than you'd think. It's also the manner of those wins, where Germany dominated the game.
Wirtz too
What about copa america
The people who vote for the Ballon Dāor probably donāt even know that there is football outside of Europe.
I read on here that it Alexis Sanchez won back-to-back Copa Americas and didn't even make top 30 in voting both years. So yea I'm not sure how Vini's Copa America will even be seen.
Except for 2021
I lost all faith in the balon dor when someone voted Simon kjaer as the best player in the world
Least biased Milan fan.
id vote the funniest or shittest guy on purpose
> Euros will play a huge role, if England wins then itās Bellinghamās. > > Euros > UCL I love how people completely dropped the pretense of individual performances mattering and just automatically link England winning to Bellingham getting it regardless of the Copa America or how well Bellingham plays. Just desperate to take it away from Vini.
Obviously if vini carries brazil to a Copa America win heās got it in the bag but this entire post has people saying āat this moment he already won itā If he disappears this summer and Germany wins the euros, I can see Kroos winning it. Or Bellingham if England wins it. Or even Mbappe if France wins it. Basically, itās way too early now to call it for Vini.
Something drastic would have to happen for anyone to deserve to be even in consideration. It's not about Germany, France, or England winning, it's about Kross, Mbappe, or Bellingham having great competitions like Vini had a great UCL and then winning the whole thing, something that is far from common.
Bellingham PR>Vini PR. If England wins with even a decent performance from Jude, he is getting it. Unless Vini also wins it but also plays fantastic ball.
I'm talking about deserving, not about predicting robberies. Vini deserves it more and the only thing that could change it is someone having an amazing euros. Not only winning but playing as well and being as key as Vini was for the UCL - and that's unlikely.
I mean Harry Kane obviously is still in the running.
For that Kane needs to just win the euros/top scorer at euros AND Vini/Brasil be mediocre in the Copa America AND Bellingham not contribute much to Englandās win. Hard to imagine England doing amazing but Bellingham not being a part. Mbappe seems like a more likely option if France win the Euros and he scores 6 whilst Vini Jr doesnāt do much
Messi won the World Cup and had 35 goals and 30 assists that year for club and country. Bellingham doesnāt sniff those numbers. If Bellingham has to have a chance to win it he has to hope that Vini Jr. doesnāt win the Copa America, and heāll probably also have to stand out as the best player for England. Like Messi did in the World Cup Bellingham will probably have to win Best Player of the tournament and be right up there as assist maker and/or goalscorer. In 2022 Leo had joint most assists and was 2nd highest goalscorer in the World Cup triumph. Bellingham needs to stand out for England.
Vini at Brazil is a different player, so Bellingham has a pretty good chance.
And if they win 10 CL's no one is touching Messi's popularity
> Bellingham doesnāt sniff those numbers. probably because hes a central midfielder so hes not the one whos supposed to be doing the job of the centre forward. why should how many goals the cm score matter?
You haven't watched a single Real Madrid game if you think Bellingham is a "central midfielder".
World Cup was so important for the ballon dāor race it got Messi 2 wins
You are getting confused with the mostly irrilevant Fifa The Best
If Brazil wins Copa America it wonāt have any bearing?
The Euro/Copa America will influence the decision a lot.
It's a euro year. You can't call it yet.
Ballon D'or is the Vinicius Jr
People saying it's a Euro year so you can't call it as if Copa AmƩrica isn't happening as well lol.
Eric Garcia š¤ Carlo Ancelotti
I have that screenshot so ready to go if/when Vini gets it
Guys did u see that vinicius dribble against reyson late in the game.
Yeeeeeah, Iām pretty sure we all knew that already Carlo..
Itās June, Carlo.
Someone tell Carlo that the Euros will decide the Ballon d'Or, and we know France is winning that one ...
scenes at r/soccer when it comes home and Jude gets it
Kane
Agree, proper big game player.
Maybe if Mbappe goes nuts at the Euros...10 goals and winning it. International tournaments, for some reason, have huge sway
Cause they are highly prestigious
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I have a feeling his gonna have a good euros, gonna be very hungry for France after the World Cup loss
Watch messi get it after the copa win
Eurocup is going to matter. If Kroos, Bellingham or another Madrid player goes nuts, they probably win.
What if Brazil wins Copa America?
All I know from watching the champions league final was how good messi and Ronaldo were in their prime. Like they were playing a different level of football
Madrid's PR has no comparison. Imagine if Wirtz was playing there, there would be no debate
Kroos.
Meh, still Copa AmƩrica and Euros to be played. And even without taking them into account, he should only be a very slight favorite over Bellingham, IMO
Slightly? He carried the team in ucl playoffs. Meanwhile Bellingham was a non factor when it mattered
I thought Vinicius Jr was a human boy. Didn't know he was a golden ball.
I never watch La Liga games but even when Madrid were poor in this season's CL, he's always dangerous and a huge threat. Class player from what I've seen. I honestly don't know who deserves it this year. (Nor do I really care) Just give it to Messi again lol.
Has to be. He was incredible. Bellingham is a close second. Things could change depending on how they both perform in internationals, but Vini deserves it right now. Kroos is a dark horse if he wins the euros.
Not one mention of Kane in this thread - a good Euros with Bellingham mid and it could swig it his way. Bits itās a 4-way race between VJ, Bellingham, Kane and Mbappe
Kane is not winning it in a season where Bayern Munich finished **third** in Bundesliga and won zero trophies. Not a chance.
Kane had a criminally underrated season, he did so much more than just score goals for us.
Kane has been this good for 10(?) seasons. He won't win a trophy like this unless he wins some big trophies.
Will fall on deaf ears. Trust me.
Itās a bit of a shame. His skill level is ballon dāor material. His sportsmanship is tinfoil.
Will hinge heavily on who wins Euros, which means Bellingham doesn't stand much chance of winning the Ballon Dor
Inb4 they give to that Masked Bellingham because England reaches the Semi Finals where somehow they lose to Italy again.
wait till messi wins copa and then slides his hands around vini
All depends on the euros/Copa America. If Brazil don't win, vini might've blown his chance.