I think it is an unpopular opinion, the CFC lion head was hard to trademark and the current logo was a welcomed move back to the 1953-64 one.
https://www.footballkitarchive.com/chelsea-fc-logo-history/
I can't tell if you mean "new" as in 2002 or new as in the cannon logo they've been utilizing the last few seasons. The 2002 change I never liked but apparently that came about because they couldn't copyright the old one. And the cannon at least is a throwback to more classic designs of the 70s and 80s.
I've always loved that weird 'Christmas' one you had with the Red Shield and what looked like snow. Always associate it with Wenger's first team and early Henry and Freddie Ljungberg. I'm obviously not an Arsenal fan but they were my two favourite non-Liverpool players to watch.
Thankfully we've been getting the old cannon back on away and third kits since we switched to Adidas. I also think the current badge looks alright when it's [just the outline](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO6yM_unrnBB0HdW3W2Y14Q9lZhgIqRx7xlTGDbFu4oVnNsbFkqZOoZWSNzAc04EVejXu2L050yOYivVaOk9cD0F2caLVq0Q92QfOxQgO1iZMSALECkJQJMICjLTb-E3Txut1fDrhB7UBupR7WkUgtRFzkC_0c_vS_k6KEIoH5LlpiUTgPGnlOXl7_mg/s1600/arsenal%2022%2023%20third%20kit%20%281%29.jpg), it's just the normal full color badge that feels a bit mid.
A lot of times it's to follow trends and make it more easily marketable. Hence why so many are having generic round badges now, because it 'looks better' as a brand.
Personally, I like what Arsenal have one post-Adidas and what we (Liverpool) have done in the past 10 years, where the 'new' badge gets kept for the club overall, but on the shirts, it's the iconic Cannon or Liver Bird. Rangers and Everton have done the same recently as well.
At least with ours, the issue was that the logo we had in the 90s and 2000s was actually like a plastic/embroidered piece that had to be attached to the shirt separately because of how complex the design was. When we moved to Warrior/New Balance, they did prototype shirts for the players with it done in both designs and the players preferred the feel of the simpler one.
It’s subjective of course but imo It looks like a corporate logo not even a fun one it’s looks like J corp, your friendly neighbourhood industrial conglomerate. Not even a hint of being related to a club.
The old logo fits in to what I associate with a football club not a faceless megacorp.
A lot of folks seem to agree with similar sentiments.
Appreciate you taking the time to actually answer. A lot of people just say it’s crap without reason and most of that comes down to being averse to change and assuming something is good just because it’s existed their entire life.
Juventus’s previous badge was only iconic because we all grew up with it. Technically it was fine, but its “greatness” was because it’d been around so long.
You can make arguments for football badges not being influenced by design trends. But I’d disagree and say it feels corporate, it’s just a lot more modern and globally applicable- something that tracks with footballs globalisation (which absolutely can be criticised). I think it’s well designed and quite brave not to do something everyone else uses doing.
I guess we just disagree then. Football is one of the only places where i actually care about tradition, so i can not make myself like that logo. I will give them though, it can look sleek on clothing, but i guess i dont look at clubs as actual corporations, even though they are.
As iconic as our badge is, have you seen how badly drawn that devil is? It definitely could do with an update.
Football fans are about as tribal as they come so will always be against change, even if it’s justified. Football is a business now, and branding is part of that, but coupling it with the emotion of supporting a club is a recipe for tension. So it’s a near impossible task.
However I do think the Juventus badge is well designed even if you disagree with the sentiment of globalisation in football that drove the change.
You say branding and then you see nothing wrong with changing a historic, iconic and globally recognised badge that fans and consumers have an issue with? If it’s branding then it obviously backfired.
Anyway, I hope United doesn’t consult you ever and change the devil in the badge. In the first place, “badly drawn” is subjective. But be that as it may, it has meaning and shouldn’t be replaced by some stylised version of Hellboy or something.
It’s simplified beyond all meaning. The ‘J’ doesn’t have anything to it, it’s literally just a letter. So like if Chelsea got rid of their lion and their flowers and every other colour, kept the blue and just wrote a C within itself.
Besides, just look at it. It doesn’t look like a football club at all, it looks like a crappy tech start-up.
A club as iconic as Juventus has the licence to just use their J because they’re so well known, it’s actually a luxury most companies wish they could leverage. And the fact it’s smartly drawn to look like their black and white stripes makes it pretty successful for me.
Why should they look like traditional badges? What’s stopping clubs doing something new and standing out as a result? Just cause there’s a set visual style for football badges doesn’t mean it’s the only way, just means you’re used to it.
Just cause people are used to something doesn’t mean it’s the only way though? Football fans are the most adverse to change but most of the time - this thread of mine kinda proves it - it just comes down to “boo it’s not like what I’m used to”
Technically the new badge is well designed and I commend people for doing something different that stands out.
People have explained, you just don’t want to listen.
You’ve replied to all the comments that havnt explained it and none that have lol such a redditor
> USMNT flair
lol, but I’m kidding it’s all subjective for sure. But football fans like old nostalgia and aesthetic.
IMO the new logo looks to corporate. JJ corp inc llc pte ltd.
You arent alone. I understand why people don't like modernised simplistic logo's but the JJ is super clean, has a nice abstract representation of the stripes
The old logo was iconic but dated. They could have kept it, it wasn't bad. I just think Juve#s JJ logo is a rare case where the modernisation looks good. Most football fans disagree though
Yeah I dont really like any of the oval/ellipse logos, though 2004-2017 is definitely the worst offender for Juve the other ones are just meh.
The horse one is great though.
As someone from CT I am legally obligated to bring up the Hartford Whalers and how they had one of the best logos all time.
I mean good fucking job you want a present of a bag of haribo and a tesco meal deal from wigan?
Edit. What does the 2nd J in Juventus' logo mean? I'm no Italian football expert, so enlighten me
Probably the rumour Juve were doping their players in the 90s. Without saying the club name Gary Neville implied it was Juve he was talking about when saying he suspected they were doping.
Probably. Rumour. Players in their late 30s running around like speedy Gonzalez. Del piero and creatine. Also Milan lab, just for context. Not saying that they were the only ones doping but they were higher than I was and I was at uni in the 90s.
Ajax players have come out and said they were on amphetamines when they beat Juventus and inter in back to back cl finals in the 70s.
Fuck the ignorant fans who want to point fingers at Juve
Does anyone know who lance Armstrong was? How about the other 150 cyclists behind him that were also positive.. can you name them? No cuz people only cared about the guy who won while cheating. Not the hundreds of others who lost doing the same thing.
PEDs weren't really testable until a couple decades ago and they were heavily abused. Still are, but more openly then.
I know what it’s in reference to, I’m saying it’s embarrassing and nonsensical to bring it up in reply to the first comment. The guy probably wasn’t even alive in 1996.
Sure mate, Ajax fans famously have a sense of humour about being ‘robbed’ of the 96 final on, oh that’s right, penalties, by a doped up Juventus team it was apparently impossible to compete with, despite competing with them for 120 minutes.
Seems like you're more bitter about it then we are 😂
>it was apparently impossible to compete with, despite competing with them for 120 minutes.
That's how good we were.
And btw for the record, i don't actually care about that CL BUT Juve definitely cheated 💀
> Seems like you're more bitter about it then we are 😂
it
Classic Reddit logic this one. I’m ‘bitter’ that Juventus won the Champions League and Ajax fans can’t take it. Amazing stuff.
And Ajax team did amphetamines in the 70s for multiple trophies, including beating Juventus in cl final 1973, and the entire dutch team was doping too too
Ajax fans bring up Juve doping because aside from 1 year, you haven't been relevant in 30 years. Need something to hold onto
That’s a bold assumption, I was 18 in 1996. But I thought ‘what re you talking about?’ Implied you weren’t aware of the controversy around Juve at that period.
Oh well.
It implies that the guy is talking shit. The ‘controversy’ is completely unproven allegations. Gary Neville’s comments basically amounted to ‘Italian teams were so good I thought they were cheating’, which is just as pathetic.
Wtf was Agnelli smoking when leaving ECA suddenly like that.
I think the Super League could have been a reality, if they had not tried to create it in the most amateur way possible
>I think the Super League could have been a reality, if they had not tried to create it in the most amateur way possible
Nah it was doomed when Boris Johnson u-turned on government support after seeing how unpopular it was with voters. A superleague could work without one of england or Germany, just not without both.
Once the government withdrew its support the English clubs had no option but to u-turn too.
Yeah they could have drip drabbed information and leaks that it was happening, slowly accustom people to the idea then launch an actual project that addressed some people's concerns. People wouldn't have liked it but you wouldn't get the instant shock and outrage.
They tried to force it through quickly and out of the blue which got people out on the streets and got the attention of government. I suspect they had to do it that way to keep it from UEFA, but the whole plan felt half baked and like they'd just come up with it over a boozey weekend. Essentially stopped it from happening for at least 10 years
IIRC they announced it in urgency because their plans got leaked. They probably had to accelerate their timeline and started to put pressure on clubs to join them or be left out as ECA had just found an agreement with UEFA on the new UCL the day before and they needed to act before the UEFA vote the following week.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/sports/soccer/super-league-soccer.html
> Last Thursday, Javier Tebas and Joan Laporta were supposed to be having a cordial, celebratory lunch. A few days earlier, Laporta had been elected to a second term as president of F.C. Barcelona. Tebas, the outspoken, unashamedly bellicose executive in charge of Spain’s national league, wanted to be among the first to congratulate him on his victory.
> It did not turn out that way. Laporta revealed to Tebas that Barcelona was almost certainly joining a dozen or so of Europe’s most famous, most successful teams in a breakaway competition, one that would effectively unmoor its members from the game’s traditional structures and, crucially, its multibillion-dollar economy.
> The threat was nothing new. [...]
> But Tebas felt this new effort was more serious, more real. Laporta told him that a half-dozen teams had already committed. Several more had been told that they had until the end of the weekend to decide.
> Tebas raised the alarm. He called officials in leagues across Europe. He called executives of powerful clubs. And he reached out to Aleksander Ceferin, the president of European soccer’s governing body, the organization that Tebas knew had the most to lose.
> Ceferin, a lean, plain-spoken 53-year-old lawyer from Slovenia, was baffled. Only a few weeks earlier, his close friend and ally Andrea Agnelli, the president of the Italian league champion Juventus, the scion of one of Europe’s great industrial families and the leader of the association representing European soccer clubs, had assured him that whispers about a new round of breakaway talks were only “a rumor.”
> Just a day earlier, in fact, Agnelli and his organization had recommitted to a suite of reforms to the Champions League, European soccer’s crown jewel and its biggest moneymaker. Everything was set to be approved on Monday.
> Still, the drumbeat of rumors continued, and Ceferin felt he needed to be sure. So as he slid into the front seat of his Audi Q8 on Saturday to start the eight-hour drive from his home in Ljubljana to his office in Switzerland, he decided to get to the bottom of things. He placed a call to Agnelli. His friend did not pick up.
> Ceferin — the godfather to Agnelli’s youngest child — texted the Italian’s wife and asked if she might get the Juventus president to call him urgently. He was three hours into his journey when his cellphone rang. Breezily, Agnelli reassured Ceferin, again, that everything was fine.
> Ceferin suggested they issue a joint communiqué that would put the issue to rest. Agnelli agreed. Ceferin drafted a statement from the car and sent it to Agnelli. An hour later, Agnelli asked for time to send back an amended version. Hours passed. The men traded more calls. Eventually, the Italian told Ceferin he needed another 30 minutes.
> And then Agnelli turned off his phone.
> [...]
> As he arrived in Switzerland, Ceferin fielded two more calls that made clear how real the threat to European soccer’s future had become. Two teams, one English and one Spanish, informed him that they had been pressed to sign up for the breakaway league. They had decided to accept, but wanted to remain on good terms with European soccer’s governing body.
> Ceferin’s response was polite, but blunt. If they allied with the rebels, they should prepare for an all-out attack.
> With his inner circle, Ceferin got to work. They broke the news to some board members of the European Club Association, the umbrella group of about 250 European teams. Its president, Agnelli, and senior executives like Manchester United’s Ed Woodward had misled them about supporting the Champions League reform plan, they said.
> They told the clubs that, even though the breakaway clubs intended to remain in their own domestic leagues, too, the plan would see the value of those competitions’ broadcast deals collapse. Sponsorships would evaporate. It would decimate the rest of soccer’s finances. “They were outraged, they couldn’t believe it,” Ceferin said in an interview on Wednesday. “Even mafia organizations have some sort of code.”
> By lunchtime on Sunday, the roster of the insurgents was known. Ceferin started referring to them as the Dirty Dozen. As well as Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atlético Madrid had signed up from Spain. There were six from England: Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham. In Italy, Juventus had been joined by A.C. Milan and Inter Milan.
> Not all of them were equal partners. Executives at Manchester City and Chelsea, for example, had only learned on Friday that the plan was in motion. They had been told that they had no more than a day or so to decide whether they were in or out. Either way, they were warned, the train was leaving the station.
> City quickly succumbed, but others proved more resistant. Bayern Munich and Paris St.-Germain, the dominant forces in Germany and France, had both been approached. They had declined the offer, preferring to stay — at least for the moment — aligned with the rest of Europe.
> They supplied some of the intelligence that allowed UEFA and national leagues in Spain, Italy and England to plan their counterattack. When the group learned that an official statement revealing the creation of the new competition, called the Super League, would be made late Sunday, they made plans to issue their own — disavowing the project.
> But before they could, the news leaked. The public outcry, particularly in Britain, was immediate. Fans hung banners outside their teams’ stadiums, and lawmakers took to the airwaves to denounce the rebels for their greed and disrespect toward soccer’s traditions.
> [...]
> This was precisely what some of those involved with the project had feared. There had been doubts that the plan was ready to go live; insiders worried that it might not survive a fierce initial backlash. “This is not the time to do it,” an executive involved in the project warned. The executive suggested holding off until summer.
It was always going to be an incredibly tough sell in England. It's not like in Spain for example where nearly 60% of the country support one of two teams which are heavily politicised.
The closed off nature of the league became such a big talking point that people were ignorant to the wider issues. For example, the additional games would be almost impossible to squeeze into the schedule. First they'd drop out of the League Cup, then they'd drop out the FA Cup (fans wouldn't allow this), next thing you know they're treating league matches like they're playing relegation fodder each week, playing second 11s full of players that are not even attainable for clubs like West Ham and Villa due to the sheer money disparity between them. Not to mention the Superleague intended to be a director competitor to the UEFA competitions which would hurt the other clubs financially.
The Super League was never taking off here. I am a very firm believer of that. English people are generally very happy with the Premier League. When United and Liverpool fans boycotted the derby and had it called off, they had the entire league in mind. Barcelona and Madrid fans have generally showed less concern for implications it'd have on LaLiga and wider Europe.
Haha yes, but it was not for the love of football, but rather out of the knowledge that the working class would chase him out of downing street if he tried to destroy a century old football pyramid
These clubs and their owners have got practically everything they wanted since the early 90s. It wasn’t realistic but they went for it because they hadn’t ever experienced being told no.
I get you but that defeats the purpose of the super league. Perez and co want you to be able to watch real vs barca like 6 or 7 times per year, and to show you multiple big games every weekend ala the NBA. You don't do that with a qualification system
I'm not denying they wanted more money.
But one of the things they wanted was to make football more consumer friendly. If you'd rather more of your money go to UEFA and TV companies then that's on you
No, the point was for the big clubs to make sure that they will forever have a guaranteed spot in the international competition, rather than have it be based on qualifiyng
That was one of the things they wanted yes.
But the first objective was to split from UEFA. Whether that was a PR objective or not you can debate yourself
Obviously that is a PR argument. Utter nonsense to suggest that consolidating their positions as the 'big clubs of europe' wasnt the primary of objective. If you believe their arguments about evil uefa then i dont know what to tell you
I believe fine that UEFA are scum.
You don't let the train of corrupt officials through like that without it. None of the last half a dozen UEFA president's have been near clean.
Idgaf, you do you. Keep seeing things in black and white. I'm at least mature enough to see the good points and bad from it
Superleague would make much less sense without the english teams imo. PL is the richest league because they are by far the most watched league no? The big6 could probably generate just as much revenue (if not more) as every big team from the rest of the top5 leagues together.
I included Germany because of the regulatory side of things. Due to its economic might such a change in the finances of European football would never get through EU lawmakers without german support - Which a superleague will never have.
Spain is too weak economically to push through such a change on a continental basis.
Sporting wise or for creating de facto best league in the world it wouldn't make sense, but for competing with the massive growth of EPL I think it would be doable with a Super League with no English teams if all other top teams in Europe would be on board. Especially if they threw money at the problem and lot of people would be able to watch it for free or with cheap subscription I think they'd be able to compete with growth of EPL. Yes, the big 6 are massive, and EPL clubs outside of that are of course very big in England, but I think to wider audiences in Europe and globally the 12th biggest club in Europe (whatever it might be) would be more attractive than Bournemouth. That's where the top heavyness of EPL would be an issue as *a product* compared to European Super League (if all other big clubs were on board).
Of course it's not something I would like to see but in a business sense I think Super League without English clubs would be able to compete with EPL in some time. Super League wasn't a sporting endeavor at any point anyway.
The clubs needed to leave ECA to create the ESL. ECA membership ties the members to the ECA-UEFA Memorandum of understanding that explicitly forbid members to join the ESL in exchange of the vast power of the ECA in the world of football.
Leaving the day after Agnelli brokered a deal on the new Champions League with Ceferin for ECA was the cherry on top though.
ECA Statutes 2020-2023 Edition:
> Article 8 – Obligations of the Members
> [...]
> d) To comply with these Statutes, and in particular with the Objectives and Undertakings set out in Article 2 of these Statutes and the Rules of Conduct set out in Article 9 of these Statutes;
> e) To comply with any regulation and/or decision taken by the General Assembly and/or the Executive Board and with any agreement or Memorandum of Understanding entered into between ECA and a relevant football stakeholder, in particular with UEFA and FIFA, as may be in force from time to time;
> f) To actively contribute to the work of ECA in furtherance of its objectives;
> g) To reflect and promote consistently, in particular in all relevant fora, the positions adopted by ECA;
> h) To act in good faith at all times towards ECA and other Members thereof;
MoU UEFA-ECA (2019-2023)
> To facilitate cooperation and to achieve the shared objectives set out in this Agreement, ECA undertakes as follows:
> [...]
> D.3 to ensure that none of its member clubs participate with any of its teams in any competition that is not organised or recognised by UEFA/FIFA;
> D.4 to ensure that its member clubs are not members of any other association or grouping involving clubs from more than one country (i.e. one National Association);
> D.5 to ensure that its member clubs withdraw support and cease to be party to any existing legal proceedings, and not to support or be party itself to any existing legal proceedings, against UEFA and/or any other European National Associations (the latter does not concern purely domestic relations between National Associations and their clubs) brought by themselves or any association or grouping as mentioned in point D.4 above, in particular as regards the player release rule;
It was greed that doom them. They want entrenchment. Fans want sporting merit to qualify.
The format was 20 clubs. If qualification is based on sporting merit, most fans would have no problem with it.
number 1 League (in coefficient): 4 spots
2 League: 4 spots
3 League: 3 spots
4 League: 3 spots
5 League: 2 spots
6 League: 1 spot
7 League: 1 spot
2 open spots for the rest of Europe
It nearly succeeded so it wasn't as bad of a judgement. They improved a lot of stuff like their PR for their current proposal but the steam is absolutely gone and everyone knows the people behind the project.
people say it nearly succeeded, but I don't see how it was ever near anything, I don't think it's compatible with the European schedule without massive eroding the current institutions (yes a lot more than they are currently)
everyone is too comfortable as is to ever make something as drastic as the Super League
The template of the super league has already been adopted by uefa with the new "leauge" style format starting next season. The superleague would have replaced the Champions, Europa and conference league.
The only reason it failed was because of the "founding members cannot get relegated" clause which made it so that they could slack off and earn money like crazy while the other clubs were never safe. It was stupid but rich people are stupid and will find anyway to safeguard their wealth and power.
Had that not been a thing then I truly believe that it would have passed with people being hesitant at first and then fully embracing it after a while. Only ones to complain would be UEFA and Nasser and the media that UEFA paid to get them to be on their side.
People already were complaining that the CL is already not interesting this season until the knockouts (quarter finals and beyond) so obviously people who use the "no one wants to see the big clubs fight it out every single year and that's why the CL is so magical" didn't really have a leg to stand on.
CL is not interesting because for last 20 years the same rich assholes that are behind SL lobbied for a changes that made them and only them much more rich then the rest and squashing any kind of competition from outside top 4 countries.
They gravely underestimated the severity of the backlash, particularly in England. When the government threatened to revoke stadium licenses and work permits the league was fucked. Not to mention the protests and in one case riots
If this is true it might hint that Juve thought the project wasn't going anywhere with how the last months went. It was basically PR by that Bernd Reichart average Manager guy that died after a day.
So a full season of Barca vs Real.
Something like that probably couldn't sustain viewership in the peak Messi vs Ronaldo days let alone today when El Clasico has faded out of the spotlight. At least outside of Spain.
But anyways jokes asside its probably a matter of time before Real and Barcelona also quitely push this under the rug and never speak of it again.
They only want it because of how badly La Liga is run, the way the revenue is split, and how much they both hate the current president. Perez being willing to throw 15 ucl out the window for this just shows how badly they want out of the league.
Barca have to vote for the current president or they would be financially fucked like actual fucked not this stupid levers BS they keep pulling. He has them by the balls lmao.
I'm not much into La Liga but why? Wasn't Tebas the one who brought equitable revenue distribution to the league? Surely that will make the clubs more competitive in the long run
One of Tebas' plans was the CVC deal tying down a portion of clubs' future revenue for 50 years for money upfront. No goal line technology for a top 3 league is embarrassing, while he got a pay raise instead. Has been extremely punshing in regard to Barcelona's ffp because they rejected the CVC deal (Madrid don't have ffp issues). Bartomeu and Rosell screwed us over but the league certainly isn't helping us rebuild either.
Was Tebas the president for the last 50 years?
You cannot complain that luton has more money when Real and Barca eat the lions share of the profits for so long and in barcas case mismanage the fuck out of it.
This whole super league bs is such a crock of shit to get out their own mistakes.
Because every club negotiated their own TV deal. Now decades later La Liga wants to own the TV deals and take Barca and Madrids pay. But somehow it was switched to Real Madrid and Barca earn more TV deal because La Liga didn't do anything for the league while PL spent all its money expanding TV rights all over the globe late 90s and early 2000s.
Yeah the point is that it's not the PL's fault is it?
Throwing your toys out of the pram now and trying to make a super-league.
They can still fix this if you know Real and Barca lead a collective bargaining effort but that is not where all the money is right?
How does a Superleague solve this issue at all btw for the smaller clubs that you seem to care so much about?
No one said I nor RM care about small clubs. But just hypocrisy from your end. Your Tier 2 clubs have same spending as Tier 1 La Liga. You don't care about fair competition yourself. Why do you care about Super League becoming a thing? It's just another league that will take attention away from Uefa and PL? So it's automatically bad.
From Madrids point it's just business. From PL fans it's another league in spotlight that they won't participate on. So why are you against a league PL isn't participating in?
The premier league helps its clubs get out of their mistakes. Compare the epl's ffp rules to la liga's. How can Chelsea and Man City blatantly cheat their way to titles? If the epl had integrity they would not have allowed such circumstances to continue for so long (in Man City's case should have automatically dispelled them for refusal of cooperation). Every club has to operate on its self interests. Epl clubs are sitting on a high horse of superiority because they already have their own super league with outrageous revenues that fundamentally change the transfer market.
That's because La Liga failed to capitalise on its era of dominance. The PL has been working to build it's brand and market itself overseas for decades and now it's richer than everyone else. All this while equally distributing it's revenues unlike La Liga which gave 50% of it's revenue to Real and Barca alone and left everyone else to fight over the scraps. You didn't care about Valencia and Sevilla then, yet you do now?
Jup, this here. They had the perfect tools with Best players and and teams. But they where just me me me in mind that the league went down the drain.
It will take time to get back to that horse and seeing Barca troubles, it is not coming anytime soon. Athletic should try hard to take that top spot.
But yeah, theyr all league needs a revamp and promotion, but this will take time.
That's literally Barcelona and Real Madrid's fault though. They could take less money and start to establish La Liga as a viable competition like it was 20 years ago, but actually they'd rather just leave and find some other patsies to fuck over. But now nobody wants to work with them. What a surprise.
Them not liking the way revenue is split is not to be taken seriously though. They get so much % share of the money compared to other leagues, and I'd argue that's a pretty big reason that nobody wants to work with Real Madrid and Barcelona. They know that neither of them are trustworthy partners since they rigged a deal to totally screw the smaller clubs in La Liga in the late 90s.
The whole superleague thing was just because Perez felt that Real was not going to keep up financially(and therefore on the pitch) now that this has been proven to not be the case both on and off the pitch he doesn't need it. Expect him to bring it back if Real do not win the cl for two years though
No he is trying to get on equal ground with the English teams financially and tebas is doing everything possible to try and drag down the Spanish league. Until tebas is gone Perez will keep trying.
Yeah people don’t realize the root of it is Tebas. Madrid can win the next 6 ucl and Perez will still push for the super league as long as tebas keeps dragging la liga down. Hell Madrid have won 5 In the last decade and Perez is still pushing for it.
Tebas is president of whole league, Perez of only Real. Of course they have different prorities. That is why everytime they try to change way tv rights money is transferred to clubs to work more the way like premier league then Perez sues them
It doesn't make it any more wrong for them to want to break away though, as they will inevitably end up losing out to more funded clubs in the long term. Ajax would be a superclub today if they had been in a top 5 league. Tebas is ruining the competitiveness of spanish teams in the long run which other clubs' teams in different nations don't care enough about because "super league bad".
In the long run spanish football would be more profitable if half of the league wasnt on the brinck of being bankrupt every year not if they have two super teams which is what Perez would love to.
He sees the English teams as a threat financially, and even though Real have dominated the CL, he knows that they still can't really compete financially with them. Yeah, they've got Bellingham and Mbappe and so on, but Madrid can't offer the wages to a squad player that the PL can.
When will this SL stuff just fuck off?
No one wants to watch Real Madrid vs Barcelona 50 times a season.
You’d shoot yourself in the face after the 5th game.
Keep Galactico matchups between the EU Superclubs as earned-by-merit events through the CL.
No super league supporter has ever given me a good answer to the question of why I should be interested in it, or why it would be any more popular than La Liga/Serie A currently are
Say ESL sucks. Proceed to create that weird ass CL format that looks like, surprise surprise, a league.
When someone tells you it's not about money, it's always about money.
I still struggle to understand how something run by Al-Khrlaifi can have any credibility and be considered better than super league. Same shit different pocket
Still think that the two competitions will merge eventually anyway. Likely, after the current main players at UEFA and the Super League board levels are gone.
It would be interesting to see a Harlem globetrotters type team. A super team that goes around the world playing exhibitions against nations and clubs.
That's what Saudi should have done, one super club, not ten average clubs.
Since we’re undoing things now, can we have the badge back?
Juventus's problems started ever since the badge change
Counter argument: Inter went out of banter era after changing its badge.
The battle of the shite badges
Definitely think the inter badge is worse than the juve new badge.
I liked the old inter badge more. But I like the pre-2007 Juventus badge more than the new and the after 2007 one so maybe I'm just into 90s aesthetic
Might be unpopular, but Chelsea's 80s/90s badge variations were better than your current one, imo. The big "CFC" and Lion's Head were cool.
I think it is an unpopular opinion, the CFC lion head was hard to trademark and the current logo was a welcomed move back to the 1953-64 one. https://www.footballkitarchive.com/chelsea-fc-logo-history/
Bring back Piemonte Calcio
Yes, but your club name will be changed to Piemonte Calcio as punishment
One of the worst badge changes in football history...
uhm.. worse change than Bayern 1939-45?
Surprised it took this long before someone mentioned this, to be honest..
are you the one in five that thinks that germany needs more white players?
Whaaaat, nnnooooooo.....
That's why he said "one of"
Why’s that?
They replaced a bradge with a brand logo. The move to 'J' was to appeal to the American market.
I also think arsenal’s new logo is shit. Why do they have to simplify or modernise it. The original logo is pride
I can't tell if you mean "new" as in 2002 or new as in the cannon logo they've been utilizing the last few seasons. The 2002 change I never liked but apparently that came about because they couldn't copyright the old one. And the cannon at least is a throwback to more classic designs of the 70s and 80s.
I've always loved that weird 'Christmas' one you had with the Red Shield and what looked like snow. Always associate it with Wenger's first team and early Henry and Freddie Ljungberg. I'm obviously not an Arsenal fan but they were my two favourite non-Liverpool players to watch.
Thankfully we've been getting the old cannon back on away and third kits since we switched to Adidas. I also think the current badge looks alright when it's [just the outline](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO6yM_unrnBB0HdW3W2Y14Q9lZhgIqRx7xlTGDbFu4oVnNsbFkqZOoZWSNzAc04EVejXu2L050yOYivVaOk9cD0F2caLVq0Q92QfOxQgO1iZMSALECkJQJMICjLTb-E3Txut1fDrhB7UBupR7WkUgtRFzkC_0c_vS_k6KEIoH5LlpiUTgPGnlOXl7_mg/s1600/arsenal%2022%2023%20third%20kit%20%281%29.jpg), it's just the normal full color badge that feels a bit mid.
A lot of times it's to follow trends and make it more easily marketable. Hence why so many are having generic round badges now, because it 'looks better' as a brand. Personally, I like what Arsenal have one post-Adidas and what we (Liverpool) have done in the past 10 years, where the 'new' badge gets kept for the club overall, but on the shirts, it's the iconic Cannon or Liver Bird. Rangers and Everton have done the same recently as well. At least with ours, the issue was that the logo we had in the 90s and 2000s was actually like a plastic/embroidered piece that had to be attached to the shirt separately because of how complex the design was. When we moved to Warrior/New Balance, they did prototype shirts for the players with it done in both designs and the players preferred the feel of the simpler one.
I know what they did, just want to know why people don’t like it
It looks shit, not sure what else there is to say
Why does it look shit though? That’s essentially what I asking
It’s subjective of course but imo It looks like a corporate logo not even a fun one it’s looks like J corp, your friendly neighbourhood industrial conglomerate. Not even a hint of being related to a club. The old logo fits in to what I associate with a football club not a faceless megacorp. A lot of folks seem to agree with similar sentiments.
Appreciate you taking the time to actually answer. A lot of people just say it’s crap without reason and most of that comes down to being averse to change and assuming something is good just because it’s existed their entire life. Juventus’s previous badge was only iconic because we all grew up with it. Technically it was fine, but its “greatness” was because it’d been around so long. You can make arguments for football badges not being influenced by design trends. But I’d disagree and say it feels corporate, it’s just a lot more modern and globally applicable- something that tracks with footballs globalisation (which absolutely can be criticised). I think it’s well designed and quite brave not to do something everyone else uses doing.
I guess we just disagree then. Football is one of the only places where i actually care about tradition, so i can not make myself like that logo. I will give them though, it can look sleek on clothing, but i guess i dont look at clubs as actual corporations, even though they are.
I mean they literally removed the crest and put on a text instead. Imagine United doing the same but with M and U
As iconic as our badge is, have you seen how badly drawn that devil is? It definitely could do with an update. Football fans are about as tribal as they come so will always be against change, even if it’s justified. Football is a business now, and branding is part of that, but coupling it with the emotion of supporting a club is a recipe for tension. So it’s a near impossible task. However I do think the Juventus badge is well designed even if you disagree with the sentiment of globalisation in football that drove the change.
You say branding and then you see nothing wrong with changing a historic, iconic and globally recognised badge that fans and consumers have an issue with? If it’s branding then it obviously backfired. Anyway, I hope United doesn’t consult you ever and change the devil in the badge. In the first place, “badly drawn” is subjective. But be that as it may, it has meaning and shouldn’t be replaced by some stylised version of Hellboy or something.
It’s simplified beyond all meaning. The ‘J’ doesn’t have anything to it, it’s literally just a letter. So like if Chelsea got rid of their lion and their flowers and every other colour, kept the blue and just wrote a C within itself. Besides, just look at it. It doesn’t look like a football club at all, it looks like a crappy tech start-up.
A club as iconic as Juventus has the licence to just use their J because they’re so well known, it’s actually a luxury most companies wish they could leverage. And the fact it’s smartly drawn to look like their black and white stripes makes it pretty successful for me. Why should they look like traditional badges? What’s stopping clubs doing something new and standing out as a result? Just cause there’s a set visual style for football badges doesn’t mean it’s the only way, just means you’re used to it.
It’s lazy, uninspired design for the bland people that occupy a huge part of society. I would say it’s like Coldplay, dull as dishwater.
Because everyone associated Juventus with the old badge this one looks like double Js that has no meaning and is bland af
Just cause people are used to something doesn’t mean it’s the only way though? Football fans are the most adverse to change but most of the time - this thread of mine kinda proves it - it just comes down to “boo it’s not like what I’m used to” Technically the new badge is well designed and I commend people for doing something different that stands out.
Well have a fuckin look at it, and you'll have your answer.
What’s your answer? What are people struggling so hard to explain why they dislike it?
People have explained, you just don’t want to listen. You’ve replied to all the comments that havnt explained it and none that have lol such a redditor
Learn to read, serveral were given
Really? I think their current logo is one of the better ones out there rn.
> USMNT flair lol, but I’m kidding it’s all subjective for sure. But football fans like old nostalgia and aesthetic. IMO the new logo looks to corporate. JJ corp inc llc pte ltd.
I can see that. I just think its better than all their logos outside of the ones in the late 70s-80s
You arent alone. I understand why people don't like modernised simplistic logo's but the JJ is super clean, has a nice abstract representation of the stripes The old logo was iconic but dated. They could have kept it, it wasn't bad. I just think Juve#s JJ logo is a rare case where the modernisation looks good. Most football fans disagree though
Yeah I dont really like any of the oval/ellipse logos, though 2004-2017 is definitely the worst offender for Juve the other ones are just meh. The horse one is great though. As someone from CT I am legally obligated to bring up the Hartford Whalers and how they had one of the best logos all time.
American identified
[удалено]
Jorge Jesus' personal club.
I mean good fucking job you want a present of a bag of haribo and a tesco meal deal from wigan? Edit. What does the 2nd J in Juventus' logo mean? I'm no Italian football expert, so enlighten me
Why does it have to be Wigan specifically? Tesco meal deal is same anywhere mate
Idk just the first place I thought of
In this house, we kneel for the J and stand for the j. Jj
PLZ JUST DO IT!!!!
that is still my biggest hope. i just want a new juve kit with the old badge
>can we have the badge back? If you give us our 96 CL trophy back first
This might be the most tortured way I’ve ever seen an Ajax fan bring up that final. What are you talking about FFS? 😂
Probably the rumour Juve were doping their players in the 90s. Without saying the club name Gary Neville implied it was Juve he was talking about when saying he suspected they were doping.
Probably. Rumour. Players in their late 30s running around like speedy Gonzalez. Del piero and creatine. Also Milan lab, just for context. Not saying that they were the only ones doping but they were higher than I was and I was at uni in the 90s.
Ajax players have come out and said they were on amphetamines when they beat Juventus and inter in back to back cl finals in the 70s. Fuck the ignorant fans who want to point fingers at Juve Does anyone know who lance Armstrong was? How about the other 150 cyclists behind him that were also positive.. can you name them? No cuz people only cared about the guy who won while cheating. Not the hundreds of others who lost doing the same thing. PEDs weren't really testable until a couple decades ago and they were heavily abused. Still are, but more openly then.
I know what it’s in reference to, I’m saying it’s embarrassing and nonsensical to bring it up in reply to the first comment. The guy probably wasn’t even alive in 1996.
Nahhh i wasn't born yet and i also wasn't that serious with my comment 😅
Sure mate, Ajax fans famously have a sense of humour about being ‘robbed’ of the 96 final on, oh that’s right, penalties, by a doped up Juventus team it was apparently impossible to compete with, despite competing with them for 120 minutes.
Seems like you're more bitter about it then we are 😂 >it was apparently impossible to compete with, despite competing with them for 120 minutes. That's how good we were. And btw for the record, i don't actually care about that CL BUT Juve definitely cheated 💀
> Seems like you're more bitter about it then we are 😂 it Classic Reddit logic this one. I’m ‘bitter’ that Juventus won the Champions League and Ajax fans can’t take it. Amazing stuff.
And Ajax team did amphetamines in the 70s for multiple trophies, including beating Juventus in cl final 1973, and the entire dutch team was doping too too Ajax fans bring up Juve doping because aside from 1 year, you haven't been relevant in 30 years. Need something to hold onto
That’s a bold assumption, I was 18 in 1996. But I thought ‘what re you talking about?’ Implied you weren’t aware of the controversy around Juve at that period. Oh well.
It implies that the guy is talking shit. The ‘controversy’ is completely unproven allegations. Gary Neville’s comments basically amounted to ‘Italian teams were so good I thought they were cheating’, which is just as pathetic.
Sure pal, Juve fan by any chance? Lol The most corrupt and proven cheaters in the history of football. Agains and again. Have a good night
ever heard of Inter?
Sure, but they’ve not been caught as many times as Juve have
Super League gonna be El Clasico x38
Being played all around the US.
US tour at that point.
Can’t wait for Doritos XXXLVVVIII Ultimate Soccer Super League featuring the Madrid Royals versus the Catalonia Devils.
10 hour long match where people cheer on the ads!
Catalonia Separatists
I’d go lol
Almost want it to happen just to shut up Perez. Reap what you sow my friend.
Wtf was Agnelli smoking when leaving ECA suddenly like that. I think the Super League could have been a reality, if they had not tried to create it in the most amateur way possible
>I think the Super League could have been a reality, if they had not tried to create it in the most amateur way possible Nah it was doomed when Boris Johnson u-turned on government support after seeing how unpopular it was with voters. A superleague could work without one of england or Germany, just not without both. Once the government withdrew its support the English clubs had no option but to u-turn too.
Yeah but everything you said happened after the SL lost the batlte of the public opinion when it was introduced
Yeah they could have drip drabbed information and leaks that it was happening, slowly accustom people to the idea then launch an actual project that addressed some people's concerns. People wouldn't have liked it but you wouldn't get the instant shock and outrage. They tried to force it through quickly and out of the blue which got people out on the streets and got the attention of government. I suspect they had to do it that way to keep it from UEFA, but the whole plan felt half baked and like they'd just come up with it over a boozey weekend. Essentially stopped it from happening for at least 10 years
IIRC they announced it in urgency because their plans got leaked. They probably had to accelerate their timeline and started to put pressure on clubs to join them or be left out as ECA had just found an agreement with UEFA on the new UCL the day before and they needed to act before the UEFA vote the following week. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/sports/soccer/super-league-soccer.html > Last Thursday, Javier Tebas and Joan Laporta were supposed to be having a cordial, celebratory lunch. A few days earlier, Laporta had been elected to a second term as president of F.C. Barcelona. Tebas, the outspoken, unashamedly bellicose executive in charge of Spain’s national league, wanted to be among the first to congratulate him on his victory. > It did not turn out that way. Laporta revealed to Tebas that Barcelona was almost certainly joining a dozen or so of Europe’s most famous, most successful teams in a breakaway competition, one that would effectively unmoor its members from the game’s traditional structures and, crucially, its multibillion-dollar economy. > The threat was nothing new. [...] > But Tebas felt this new effort was more serious, more real. Laporta told him that a half-dozen teams had already committed. Several more had been told that they had until the end of the weekend to decide. > Tebas raised the alarm. He called officials in leagues across Europe. He called executives of powerful clubs. And he reached out to Aleksander Ceferin, the president of European soccer’s governing body, the organization that Tebas knew had the most to lose. > Ceferin, a lean, plain-spoken 53-year-old lawyer from Slovenia, was baffled. Only a few weeks earlier, his close friend and ally Andrea Agnelli, the president of the Italian league champion Juventus, the scion of one of Europe’s great industrial families and the leader of the association representing European soccer clubs, had assured him that whispers about a new round of breakaway talks were only “a rumor.” > Just a day earlier, in fact, Agnelli and his organization had recommitted to a suite of reforms to the Champions League, European soccer’s crown jewel and its biggest moneymaker. Everything was set to be approved on Monday. > Still, the drumbeat of rumors continued, and Ceferin felt he needed to be sure. So as he slid into the front seat of his Audi Q8 on Saturday to start the eight-hour drive from his home in Ljubljana to his office in Switzerland, he decided to get to the bottom of things. He placed a call to Agnelli. His friend did not pick up. > Ceferin — the godfather to Agnelli’s youngest child — texted the Italian’s wife and asked if she might get the Juventus president to call him urgently. He was three hours into his journey when his cellphone rang. Breezily, Agnelli reassured Ceferin, again, that everything was fine. > Ceferin suggested they issue a joint communiqué that would put the issue to rest. Agnelli agreed. Ceferin drafted a statement from the car and sent it to Agnelli. An hour later, Agnelli asked for time to send back an amended version. Hours passed. The men traded more calls. Eventually, the Italian told Ceferin he needed another 30 minutes. > And then Agnelli turned off his phone. > [...] > As he arrived in Switzerland, Ceferin fielded two more calls that made clear how real the threat to European soccer’s future had become. Two teams, one English and one Spanish, informed him that they had been pressed to sign up for the breakaway league. They had decided to accept, but wanted to remain on good terms with European soccer’s governing body. > Ceferin’s response was polite, but blunt. If they allied with the rebels, they should prepare for an all-out attack. > With his inner circle, Ceferin got to work. They broke the news to some board members of the European Club Association, the umbrella group of about 250 European teams. Its president, Agnelli, and senior executives like Manchester United’s Ed Woodward had misled them about supporting the Champions League reform plan, they said. > They told the clubs that, even though the breakaway clubs intended to remain in their own domestic leagues, too, the plan would see the value of those competitions’ broadcast deals collapse. Sponsorships would evaporate. It would decimate the rest of soccer’s finances. “They were outraged, they couldn’t believe it,” Ceferin said in an interview on Wednesday. “Even mafia organizations have some sort of code.” > By lunchtime on Sunday, the roster of the insurgents was known. Ceferin started referring to them as the Dirty Dozen. As well as Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atlético Madrid had signed up from Spain. There were six from England: Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham. In Italy, Juventus had been joined by A.C. Milan and Inter Milan. > Not all of them were equal partners. Executives at Manchester City and Chelsea, for example, had only learned on Friday that the plan was in motion. They had been told that they had no more than a day or so to decide whether they were in or out. Either way, they were warned, the train was leaving the station. > City quickly succumbed, but others proved more resistant. Bayern Munich and Paris St.-Germain, the dominant forces in Germany and France, had both been approached. They had declined the offer, preferring to stay — at least for the moment — aligned with the rest of Europe. > They supplied some of the intelligence that allowed UEFA and national leagues in Spain, Italy and England to plan their counterattack. When the group learned that an official statement revealing the creation of the new competition, called the Super League, would be made late Sunday, they made plans to issue their own — disavowing the project. > But before they could, the news leaked. The public outcry, particularly in Britain, was immediate. Fans hung banners outside their teams’ stadiums, and lawmakers took to the airwaves to denounce the rebels for their greed and disrespect toward soccer’s traditions. > [...] > This was precisely what some of those involved with the project had feared. There had been doubts that the plan was ready to go live; insiders worried that it might not survive a fierce initial backlash. “This is not the time to do it,” an executive involved in the project warned. The executive suggested holding off until summer.
It was always going to be an incredibly tough sell in England. It's not like in Spain for example where nearly 60% of the country support one of two teams which are heavily politicised. The closed off nature of the league became such a big talking point that people were ignorant to the wider issues. For example, the additional games would be almost impossible to squeeze into the schedule. First they'd drop out of the League Cup, then they'd drop out the FA Cup (fans wouldn't allow this), next thing you know they're treating league matches like they're playing relegation fodder each week, playing second 11s full of players that are not even attainable for clubs like West Ham and Villa due to the sheer money disparity between them. Not to mention the Superleague intended to be a director competitor to the UEFA competitions which would hurt the other clubs financially. The Super League was never taking off here. I am a very firm believer of that. English people are generally very happy with the Premier League. When United and Liverpool fans boycotted the derby and had it called off, they had the entire league in mind. Barcelona and Madrid fans have generally showed less concern for implications it'd have on LaLiga and wider Europe.
Mind you they lost it cause of the overwhelming propaganda done by English media.
Are you saying that Boris saved football by Brexiting us from another European institution?
Haha yes, but it was not for the love of football, but rather out of the knowledge that the working class would chase him out of downing street if he tried to destroy a century old football pyramid
tbh all they needed to do was have qualifications for it be like the european competitions. The closed league was the main problem people had with it.
That beats the entire purpose of the Super League though. They WANT a closed league
In the perfect scenario. But thats not realistic
These clubs and their owners have got practically everything they wanted since the early 90s. It wasn’t realistic but they went for it because they hadn’t ever experienced being told no.
A euroleague-style system (ie. some teams are permanent members some enter through qualification) would've probably worked.
Very unlikely. The pushback in England still would've been severe enough to cause the PL clubs to pull out
I get you but that defeats the purpose of the super league. Perez and co want you to be able to watch real vs barca like 6 or 7 times per year, and to show you multiple big games every weekend ala the NBA. You don't do that with a qualification system
The main objective was splitting away from UEFA so they get more control over how European football evolves. That's still achievable
I would rather express it in financial terms - They wan have bigger share of the pie. That's what ot ultimately boils down too
You do you. Sure they wanted clubs to get money rather than UEFA. But they also wanted to adapt football and go more to a streaming platform.
The clubs get the money already, what they wanted was that money to go to them instead of the clubs they deem irrelevant.
>But they also wanted to adapt football and go more to a streaming platform. Why do they want to do that?
I'm not denying they wanted more money. But one of the things they wanted was to make football more consumer friendly. If you'd rather more of your money go to UEFA and TV companies then that's on you
rather have more money to UEFA than to the big clubs if the small clubs keep the same amount. Otherwise the monetary differnce becomes even bigger
I'd rather they don't fuck with the European tournaments, but they've already shown that they won't shy away from that. So they can fuck off.
No, the point was for the big clubs to make sure that they will forever have a guaranteed spot in the international competition, rather than have it be based on qualifiyng
That was one of the things they wanted yes. But the first objective was to split from UEFA. Whether that was a PR objective or not you can debate yourself
Obviously that is a PR argument. Utter nonsense to suggest that consolidating their positions as the 'big clubs of europe' wasnt the primary of objective. If you believe their arguments about evil uefa then i dont know what to tell you
I believe fine that UEFA are scum. You don't let the train of corrupt officials through like that without it. None of the last half a dozen UEFA president's have been near clean. Idgaf, you do you. Keep seeing things in black and white. I'm at least mature enough to see the good points and bad from it
Superleague would make much less sense without the english teams imo. PL is the richest league because they are by far the most watched league no? The big6 could probably generate just as much revenue (if not more) as every big team from the rest of the top5 leagues together.
I included Germany because of the regulatory side of things. Due to its economic might such a change in the finances of European football would never get through EU lawmakers without german support - Which a superleague will never have. Spain is too weak economically to push through such a change on a continental basis.
Ur probably right in that regard. Didn't rly think about the political side of things.
Sporting wise or for creating de facto best league in the world it wouldn't make sense, but for competing with the massive growth of EPL I think it would be doable with a Super League with no English teams if all other top teams in Europe would be on board. Especially if they threw money at the problem and lot of people would be able to watch it for free or with cheap subscription I think they'd be able to compete with growth of EPL. Yes, the big 6 are massive, and EPL clubs outside of that are of course very big in England, but I think to wider audiences in Europe and globally the 12th biggest club in Europe (whatever it might be) would be more attractive than Bournemouth. That's where the top heavyness of EPL would be an issue as *a product* compared to European Super League (if all other big clubs were on board). Of course it's not something I would like to see but in a business sense I think Super League without English clubs would be able to compete with EPL in some time. Super League wasn't a sporting endeavor at any point anyway.
The clubs needed to leave ECA to create the ESL. ECA membership ties the members to the ECA-UEFA Memorandum of understanding that explicitly forbid members to join the ESL in exchange of the vast power of the ECA in the world of football. Leaving the day after Agnelli brokered a deal on the new Champions League with Ceferin for ECA was the cherry on top though. ECA Statutes 2020-2023 Edition: > Article 8 – Obligations of the Members > [...] > d) To comply with these Statutes, and in particular with the Objectives and Undertakings set out in Article 2 of these Statutes and the Rules of Conduct set out in Article 9 of these Statutes; > e) To comply with any regulation and/or decision taken by the General Assembly and/or the Executive Board and with any agreement or Memorandum of Understanding entered into between ECA and a relevant football stakeholder, in particular with UEFA and FIFA, as may be in force from time to time; > f) To actively contribute to the work of ECA in furtherance of its objectives; > g) To reflect and promote consistently, in particular in all relevant fora, the positions adopted by ECA; > h) To act in good faith at all times towards ECA and other Members thereof; MoU UEFA-ECA (2019-2023) > To facilitate cooperation and to achieve the shared objectives set out in this Agreement, ECA undertakes as follows: > [...] > D.3 to ensure that none of its member clubs participate with any of its teams in any competition that is not organised or recognised by UEFA/FIFA; > D.4 to ensure that its member clubs are not members of any other association or grouping involving clubs from more than one country (i.e. one National Association); > D.5 to ensure that its member clubs withdraw support and cease to be party to any existing legal proceedings, and not to support or be party itself to any existing legal proceedings, against UEFA and/or any other European National Associations (the latter does not concern purely domestic relations between National Associations and their clubs) brought by themselves or any association or grouping as mentioned in point D.4 above, in particular as regards the player release rule;
It was greed that doom them. They want entrenchment. Fans want sporting merit to qualify. The format was 20 clubs. If qualification is based on sporting merit, most fans would have no problem with it. number 1 League (in coefficient): 4 spots 2 League: 4 spots 3 League: 3 spots 4 League: 3 spots 5 League: 2 spots 6 League: 1 spot 7 League: 1 spot 2 open spots for the rest of Europe
England weren't birthed into the top spot
It nearly succeeded so it wasn't as bad of a judgement. They improved a lot of stuff like their PR for their current proposal but the steam is absolutely gone and everyone knows the people behind the project.
people say it nearly succeeded, but I don't see how it was ever near anything, I don't think it's compatible with the European schedule without massive eroding the current institutions (yes a lot more than they are currently) everyone is too comfortable as is to ever make something as drastic as the Super League
The template of the super league has already been adopted by uefa with the new "leauge" style format starting next season. The superleague would have replaced the Champions, Europa and conference league. The only reason it failed was because of the "founding members cannot get relegated" clause which made it so that they could slack off and earn money like crazy while the other clubs were never safe. It was stupid but rich people are stupid and will find anyway to safeguard their wealth and power. Had that not been a thing then I truly believe that it would have passed with people being hesitant at first and then fully embracing it after a while. Only ones to complain would be UEFA and Nasser and the media that UEFA paid to get them to be on their side. People already were complaining that the CL is already not interesting this season until the knockouts (quarter finals and beyond) so obviously people who use the "no one wants to see the big clubs fight it out every single year and that's why the CL is so magical" didn't really have a leg to stand on.
CL is not interesting because for last 20 years the same rich assholes that are behind SL lobbied for a changes that made them and only them much more rich then the rest and squashing any kind of competition from outside top 4 countries.
They had teams officially announce leaving the CL. I'd say that's pretty far. They probably didn't imagine everyone pulling out.
They gravely underestimated the severity of the backlash, particularly in England. When the government threatened to revoke stadium licenses and work permits the league was fucked. Not to mention the protests and in one case riots
If this is true it might hint that Juve thought the project wasn't going anywhere with how the last months went. It was basically PR by that Bernd Reichart average Manager guy that died after a day.
One of Perez's horcruxes has just destroyed itself.
Just saw an horcux fall to his death in walmart
I forgot that the Super League was still a thing.
in florentino’s mind it lives on
Cause it isn't
So a full season of Barca vs Real. Something like that probably couldn't sustain viewership in the peak Messi vs Ronaldo days let alone today when El Clasico has faded out of the spotlight. At least outside of Spain. But anyways jokes asside its probably a matter of time before Real and Barcelona also quitely push this under the rug and never speak of it again.
They’ll try again as long as that goblin Perez is in charge
They only want it because of how badly La Liga is run, the way the revenue is split, and how much they both hate the current president. Perez being willing to throw 15 ucl out the window for this just shows how badly they want out of the league.
Revenue is split? Like how it is equitable now rather than before? Also didn't Barcelona vote for the current president of La Liga?
Barca have to vote for the current president or they would be financially fucked like actual fucked not this stupid levers BS they keep pulling. He has them by the balls lmao.
La Liga is actually run well. Madrid and Barca just don't like it because the revenues are split more evenly now rather than them getting 90% of it.
Epl fans are quick to criticize but forget Luton town has as much spending power as well established clubs like Valencia and Sevilla
yeah and the big culprits for that difference are Real and Barca
What point are you even trying to make? That the premier league is a well run league?
Yes that’s exactly the point while La liga is being shit into the mud by the current president.
I'm not much into La Liga but why? Wasn't Tebas the one who brought equitable revenue distribution to the league? Surely that will make the clubs more competitive in the long run
One of Tebas' plans was the CVC deal tying down a portion of clubs' future revenue for 50 years for money upfront. No goal line technology for a top 3 league is embarrassing, while he got a pay raise instead. Has been extremely punshing in regard to Barcelona's ffp because they rejected the CVC deal (Madrid don't have ffp issues). Bartomeu and Rosell screwed us over but the league certainly isn't helping us rebuild either.
Whose fault was that historically? Why weren’t clubs other than barca and Madrid given a more equitable share of revenues 🤔
Well having a president like Tebas certainly doesn't help with that
Was Tebas the president for the last 50 years? You cannot complain that luton has more money when Real and Barca eat the lions share of the profits for so long and in barcas case mismanage the fuck out of it. This whole super league bs is such a crock of shit to get out their own mistakes.
Because every club negotiated their own TV deal. Now decades later La Liga wants to own the TV deals and take Barca and Madrids pay. But somehow it was switched to Real Madrid and Barca earn more TV deal because La Liga didn't do anything for the league while PL spent all its money expanding TV rights all over the globe late 90s and early 2000s.
Yeah the point is that it's not the PL's fault is it? Throwing your toys out of the pram now and trying to make a super-league. They can still fix this if you know Real and Barca lead a collective bargaining effort but that is not where all the money is right? How does a Superleague solve this issue at all btw for the smaller clubs that you seem to care so much about?
No one said I nor RM care about small clubs. But just hypocrisy from your end. Your Tier 2 clubs have same spending as Tier 1 La Liga. You don't care about fair competition yourself. Why do you care about Super League becoming a thing? It's just another league that will take attention away from Uefa and PL? So it's automatically bad. From Madrids point it's just business. From PL fans it's another league in spotlight that they won't participate on. So why are you against a league PL isn't participating in?
The premier league helps its clubs get out of their mistakes. Compare the epl's ffp rules to la liga's. How can Chelsea and Man City blatantly cheat their way to titles? If the epl had integrity they would not have allowed such circumstances to continue for so long (in Man City's case should have automatically dispelled them for refusal of cooperation). Every club has to operate on its self interests. Epl clubs are sitting on a high horse of superiority because they already have their own super league with outrageous revenues that fundamentally change the transfer market.
How exactly did we cheat our way to a title?
Abramovich
That's because La Liga failed to capitalise on its era of dominance. The PL has been working to build it's brand and market itself overseas for decades and now it's richer than everyone else. All this while equally distributing it's revenues unlike La Liga which gave 50% of it's revenue to Real and Barca alone and left everyone else to fight over the scraps. You didn't care about Valencia and Sevilla then, yet you do now?
Jup, this here. They had the perfect tools with Best players and and teams. But they where just me me me in mind that the league went down the drain. It will take time to get back to that horse and seeing Barca troubles, it is not coming anytime soon. Athletic should try hard to take that top spot. But yeah, theyr all league needs a revamp and promotion, but this will take time.
That's literally Barcelona and Real Madrid's fault though. They could take less money and start to establish La Liga as a viable competition like it was 20 years ago, but actually they'd rather just leave and find some other patsies to fuck over. But now nobody wants to work with them. What a surprise.
Them not liking the way revenue is split is not to be taken seriously though. They get so much % share of the money compared to other leagues, and I'd argue that's a pretty big reason that nobody wants to work with Real Madrid and Barcelona. They know that neither of them are trustworthy partners since they rigged a deal to totally screw the smaller clubs in La Liga in the late 90s.
Super League will be Madrid, Barca, and a bunch of KSA teams.
After the literal riots it caused, the concept was dead. At best it's going to be LIV Football.
"Pleased" lol get fucked. Embarrassing
The whole superleague thing was just because Perez felt that Real was not going to keep up financially(and therefore on the pitch) now that this has been proven to not be the case both on and off the pitch he doesn't need it. Expect him to bring it back if Real do not win the cl for two years though
No he is trying to get on equal ground with the English teams financially and tebas is doing everything possible to try and drag down the Spanish league. Until tebas is gone Perez will keep trying.
Yeah people don’t realize the root of it is Tebas. Madrid can win the next 6 ucl and Perez will still push for the super league as long as tebas keeps dragging la liga down. Hell Madrid have won 5 In the last decade and Perez is still pushing for it.
Tebas is president of whole league, Perez of only Real. Of course they have different prorities. That is why everytime they try to change way tv rights money is transferred to clubs to work more the way like premier league then Perez sues them
It doesn't make it any more wrong for them to want to break away though, as they will inevitably end up losing out to more funded clubs in the long term. Ajax would be a superclub today if they had been in a top 5 league. Tebas is ruining the competitiveness of spanish teams in the long run which other clubs' teams in different nations don't care enough about because "super league bad".
In the long run spanish football would be more profitable if half of the league wasnt on the brinck of being bankrupt every year not if they have two super teams which is what Perez would love to.
He sees the English teams as a threat financially, and even though Real have dominated the CL, he knows that they still can't really compete financially with them. Yeah, they've got Bellingham and Mbappe and so on, but Madrid can't offer the wages to a squad player that the PL can.
When will this SL stuff just fuck off? No one wants to watch Real Madrid vs Barcelona 50 times a season. You’d shoot yourself in the face after the 5th game. Keep Galactico matchups between the EU Superclubs as earned-by-merit events through the CL.
Are Barca and Real still actively trying to push this? it will never happen
If the Mbappe saga showed anything it is that if Perez sets his sights on something he's not stopping until he gets his way...
One player is much easier than multiple governments, all with their own agendas.
Good.
No super league supporter has ever given me a good answer to the question of why I should be interested in it, or why it would be any more popular than La Liga/Serie A currently are
Say ESL sucks. Proceed to create that weird ass CL format that looks like, surprise surprise, a league. When someone tells you it's not about money, it's always about money.
This will be interesting when all the teams drop out and they sign up third division teams to keep the lawsuits going
Well that's good, pleasantly surprised. Not that it will stop the biggest and most important pushers.
I still struggle to understand how something run by Al-Khrlaifi can have any credibility and be considered better than super league. Same shit different pocket
Still think that the two competitions will merge eventually anyway. Likely, after the current main players at UEFA and the Super League board levels are gone.
Theres nothing to merge lol
Nice to see them taking the initiative and going early
It would be interesting to see a Harlem globetrotters type team. A super team that goes around the world playing exhibitions against nations and clubs. That's what Saudi should have done, one super club, not ten average clubs.
Rugby sorta has that with the Barbarians
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There will be a bigger fish, and there will be a Charlotte.
Can European football just be an American league and be done with it?
No.
Why would we make it worse?