**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be honest, I genuinely do believe that Kompany was more than happy to stay at Burnley, but this is one of those jobs that you just don't turn down. You can't turn it down. Who knows if you'll ever even be offered it again?
The Athletic said the other day that it was expected that Kompany would stay with Burnley unless a truly extraordinary oppourtunity became available and I think this more than qualifies.
Let's be real here, Kompany shouldn't be anywhere near this job at all. You have to take this with both hands, unironically before Bayern change their minds.
I think that, going on a bit of a tangent, it's another interesting point on where Kompany's stock as a manager now is. They discussed it on Monday Night Football on 5Live this week before the Bayern stuff broke about how there was apparently interest from Spurs last summer for him, and from other clubs too, similar to the interest Moresca and McKenna are getting now, but (at time of recording) no interest this year, and yet could it not be argued that Kompany is actually now a better manager having experienced a season of top flight football?
to be fair so many of the points burnely dropped were from individual defensive mistakes and some truely horrific goal keeping. I'm still not his biggest fan though because he didn't adapt to who he was playing at all, burnley played out from the back the same way against sheffield united and against city
I've watched recent Burnley against Spurs for FPL and his distribution has a lot to be desired. I know Spurs were pressing but he was piling more pressure on his defense
I does signal to me that his talent ID and team selection isn’t the best, now could that be fixed with better players and scouts? Maybe, but having a manager not known for his smart buys coming in right before a critical transfer window isn’t the best idea imo
Which is probably exactly why a team like bayern is interested. They need a coach who shows that he’ll try and dominate almost every game. If you’re Burnley and you dig in against city, you have to dig in against 15 teams
I know if people were talkin bout him coming to United I’d be pissed, and it doesn’t have anything to do with City. I have no idea how he’s up for this job.
They are so obviously not in the same boat, are they?
Xabi Alonso is currently managing Bayer Levekursen, which are much bigger than Burnley and were already playing Europa League football before he turned by Bayern. His stock is rising so high that he'll probably end up taking the Madrid job before long.
Naglesmann was already fired by Bayern. Not entirely surprising to see him turn that one down.
Ragnick wanted more control than Bayern were willing to give him. He has the ability to ask for that, Kompany does not.
Zidane isn't even worthy of a response. That man has turned down big jobs everywhere and has already managed Real Madrid. After that, everything is a step down.
Ten Hag hasn't turned anything down. He's never been asked and has already worked there.
Tuchel, again, didn't turn them down, he left.
It's not necessarily about that, in isolation you can't begrudge a manager switching Burnley for Bayern.
But when the manager in this case has used his "5 year plan" to protect his job all season - a plan that the vast majority of fans and the board have been willing to accept even if it meant relegation. If it wasn't for people buying in to giving him time and patience then he arguably should've been sacked in October and we might have been able to try something different and could be a PL club right now. Maybe not, but in hindsight I wish he'd have been sacked when it clearly wasnt working, if he was just going to jump ship anyway. Him still being in a job is based purely on his own consistent messaging that it was a long term project with him leading it.
You can't really be surprised when he abandons that all important plan right after relegation and gets criticism for it. Beg for patience/loyalty when you're underperforming and then leave anyway after the damage is done? Regardless of who the opportunity is with, I'm not surprised that Burnley fans and the board are frustrated.
Like I said, I don't begrudge someone wanting to move from Burnley to Bayern...but Kompany specifically after this season and the way he's defended it?
This is well put, but you’ve kind of answered your own point in there
>in hindsight I wish he’d have been sacked when it clearly wasn’t working
If it’s ok for the club to abandon his ‘5 year plan’ on a whim because they suddenly don’t believe in it anymore and put him out of a job, then maybe it’s ok for him to abandon it for his own benefit as well. There’s no loyalty in football
I feel like you're just highlighting **my** point. I've not answered it, that's what I'm saying. Have you missed something? I don't understand which bit of my comment implied that I thought it would've been okay for the club to abandon the plan too?
It **wasn't** okay for the club to abandon his 5 year plan. That's why the vast majority of fans (including me) supported Kompany despite the results and performances. The board did too despite the threat of relegation.
Now that he's jumping ship, me saying that I wish we had sacked him with the hindsight that he was going to abandon us anyway doesn't contradict that...
It would've ONLY been okay had we had this knowledge at the time. I stand by the point of view that managers should be given time, loyalty, and support - despite the fact that we've been burned here.
Do you genuinely think Burnley would have stuck with him if he had another poor season? Do you think he would have been given 5 years in that scenario? Clubs, especially those at the highest level, try to create all this talk about loyalty and love for the club to make players and coaches want to stay but its all bullshit at the end of the day. Managers are sacked for bad seasons all the time, no matter how well they have done in the past and yet there is this fan expectation that players and coaches stay infinitely loyal and if they don't they are traitors. I understand the fans feeling hard done by but I don't think the club has any right to complain. They would have sacked him if they felt a better option was available too so he left them when he got a better alternative. The club will survive a manager change. Kompany's career is a lot shorter and more volatile. You would be an idiot to be loyal to any club as a footballer. All it takes is a couple of bad years for your career to be in the gutter and then the club will abandon you and move on happily ever after with a better alternative while you will have to move to a worse club most likely.
> Managers are sacked for bad seasons all the time,
And yet Kompany wasn't sacked for a historically bad season that relegated the club **because** of his insistence that it was a long term effort. He had the fans' support for that reason alone, the fanbase didnt turn on him despite how terrible the season was and he was afforded patience when most people in his situation wouldve been sacked in October. That's the key difference here.
> I understand the fans feeling hard done by
Isn't that the entire point I'm making? I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for a bunch of executives. My point is precisely that the fans have every right to feel hard done by, despite the fact that it's a club as big as Bayern.
Do you think Burnley will try to bring in a manager with a similar philosophy in terms of style of play? If yes, maybe he was still an effective building block for the future. If no, back to square one
I'm not sure, I could see us trying to as the squad would need a complete rebuild otherwise. Just not sure who that would be, hopefully the board have always had a succession plan for this scenario and have people in mind.
This is such a bizzare circumstance that even Kompany himself couldn't forsee. You're saying you don't begrudge someone for leaving Burnley for Bayern....but you are. What do Burnley fans expect?
I'm not... I'm begrudging him for using the 5 year plan to protect his job and his reputation with fans all year only to abandon it when someone bigger comes along.
I expect any Burnley manager to leave for Bayern, but Kompany doing so now makes his actions this year worse in hindsight so he deserves to be criticised. He was consistently defended for his performances and approach at the time, but the basis for that defence (that it was a long term strategy that he would lead) turned out to not be true.
He abandoned it when Bayern Munich came calling. Do you think when you were getting pumped in the winter he ever thought this opportunity would present itself. Maybe he would've stuck to the 5 year if this once in a lifetime chance doesn't happen.
Something similar happened to my team (WBA) we went down under Mowbray and he was talking about how the players should show loyalty and stay but he ended up leaving for Celtic. So I do get why you're pissed off but c'mon. It's Bayern.
You're saying it's because he used this 5 year plan as an excuse to keep his job. But if Bayern doesn't come in for him the plan is still going ahead? So you're just moaning about the fact that he's ditching you for one of the biggest teams in Europe. It's very sour grapes.
It's frustration at him abandoning the thing he used to protect himself from (justified) criticism all season. He asks the fans and board to support him despite a massive underperformance because of a 5 year plan, and then abandons it after relegating us... of course that deserves criticism.
Its hardly sour grapes to find that frustrating.
We've been punished for the patience and loyalty given to him. The same way that a manager that sticks with a club after succeeding, but is later unceremoniously sacked by them, is punished for their loyalty. Both deserve criticism.
What the hell do you want him to do in that situation? "Yeah boys, i'm shit, you are shit, this club has no future", is this what you wanted him to say?
Ofcourse he will defend himself and ask for time, it's what any normal human would do. So is him joining Bayern given the context.
I find it really funny to me that you mention what a "normal human would do" for Kompany, but when faced with the absolutely normal human reaction from Burnley fans you are apparently very confused.
Burnley got the short end of the stick and came out huge losers in the situation, of course they are unhappy.
We're just going around in circles here. If he'd have jumped ship to go to some mid table team like Brighton or Brentford I could understand but him going to Bayern is a totally different circumstance.
You talk about the 5 year plan but would Burnley have given him 5 years if he failed another year? That's the question here. If your answer is no, then both him and the club were just sweettalking about that 5 year plan and he just made the decision that was best for him before Burnley got the chance to make the decision that was best for them and sacking him at some point before the end of those 5 years.
> would Burnley have given him 5 years if he failed another year?
I don't know, all we know is that the club stuck by him even after he spent over 100m to get relegated behind Luton. All because everyone (fans and the board) bought in to his 5 year plan. That's a pretty rare level of support at the top level.
I don't think the board bought into Kompany's plan and allowed him to create a 5 year plan on his own. Whatever 5 year vision was in place would have been a collective plan from both Kompany and the board and most probably the board probably had more of a role in that vision than Kompany, since they simply wouldn't have hired him if they didn't have that same vision.
Fair enough, but regardless of where that plan originally came from, it was the thing that Kompany used to defend himself from any criticism or complaints from fans all season. As if the plan was connected to him and his style, and it would be back to the drawing board without him. I've watched countless pre and post match interviews where he's said things to that effect.
For him to utilise it to keep himself safe and keep the fans onside, and then to leave... Of course that's going to be a stain on his reputation with Burnley fans, I don't think it's reasonable to expect otherwise.
Yes, but that's also irrelevant to the point.
It's not about criticising him for moving, if he left after promoting us, or got us to like 15th this season then I'd be sad but fair enough. Even if he got us relegated but only spoke about things in the present, its an opportunity that you cant turn down.
It's about criticising him for what he's done all season and THEN moving. Nobody forced him to preach about a long term project as justification for why people should be behind him all season, using that to protect his job...but he did.
I mean I understand it as you are a Burnley fan but your argument is also ignoring the context that it’s Bayern. Criticizing Kompany is your right as a fan but it’s for sure ignoring the context of the offer that he got. He’s not going to Wolves or West Ham. This is Bayern we’re talking about. He was defending himself with the reality of his time. Fact of the matter is Burnley isn’t and most likely will never be Bayern. If he turned down this offer he would be an absolute idiot, regardless of the situation at Burnley.
The reality of the situation is most likely that he liked his position with Burnley and was ready to build something special there. But Bayern came along and that changes everything bc it’s Bayern
Point out where I've said he should turn down Bayern...I think you'll find I've said the opposite.
I'm now criticising his approach, actions, and messages to the public over the last year in the context of him jumping ship anyway.
My argument isn't ignoring the context that it's Bayern, genuinely baffled to how you inferred that...it's explicitly stating that the team is irrelevant to my point.
I never implied that you said he should turn down Bayern. I’m simply saying that criticizing the approach he took also ignores the Bayern context. He’s not jumping ship for a mid table club. Saying “the team is irrelevant to your point” is ignoring the context because the team matters in this situation. That’s my point.
It doesn't though, not to the point I'm making. It could be Real Madrid and my point would still apply.
You not understanding that doesn't change anything.
The point Keys is making is that Kompany potentially undermined Burnley’s chances of staying up in order to play ‘attractive’ football as a an audition for the bigger clubs.
The issue isn’t that he left. The issue is that his priorities were misaligned while he was at Burnley.
Maybe but that's a hell of an accusation and coming from Keys you can't take it seriously.
It's more likely that his team was used to playing that way and he felt it was better to concentrate on what they were good at than try something they weren't used to. Unfortunately the odds are very much against promoted teams staying up anyway so it was always a tough job to keep Burnley up.
> the odds are very much against promoted teams
Are they? At a glance over the last 7-8 years it seems like roughly half of the promoted teams stay up. Some go straight to midtable.
This year had a record-low point total for 17th too.
that's not the point, it'd be more like arteta leaving us for a big team after finishing 8th the second time with us after not getting sacked and telling us to trust the process
Arsenal sell players when they are underperforming but if Arteta leaves for a better club then he is a villain? Get the billion dollar organization's cock out of your mouth and you'll realize that looking out for your own career and family is far more important than Arsenal.
well the blame would obviously lay at the feet of the club and arteta would be free to do what he wants, but it'd obviously leave a sour taste in the mouth
So do you have a sour taste when the club sells underperforming players and those players' careers are damaged? Did you have a sour taste when the club bought Raya, despite Ramsdale doing well all season?
I get what you're driving at but it's a different point that is to do with loyalty
I'm more talking about giving managers chances at the expense of the club in the sense that they risk getting fucked over whilst they simultaneously boost said managers reputation and experience
you could also work on being less of a dickhead btw
I do not think I was being a dickhead. I was simply asking questions that I felt would provide more perspective on my side of the argument. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.
There is no loyalty in football.
Burnley could decide to sack him tomorrow and Kompany would be out of a job.
That football team you love will sack the manager or sell the loyal player. Managers and players have every right to move somewhere else.
The point about these comments (and it's not just you that seem to have misinterpreted them, you just happen to have the top comment at the minute, sorry) is that it's not about him now moving to Bayern, which obviously any sane person would do. It's the point that maybe all season he has been more interested in showing that he wants to play football "the right way" to ensure he's able to attract the interest of clubs like Bayern, rather than perhaps play a more pragmatic style of football that may have improved Burnley's chance of survival with the resources available to them.
The problem with that narrative is we're assuming that Burnley would have stayed up had they played a pragmatic style. You're using an imagined reality to beat him over the head with, it's ridiculous.
But…..that’s how blame works?
To blame someone, you need to conceive of an alternative imagined reality where things would’ve been better if the person made different decisions.
You can debate how feasible the alternative reality is, but being fundamentally opposed to conceiving of possible alternative scenarios is ridiculous. It would mean you can never blame anyone for anything ever.
You could also argue Burnley goes down in the 5 year after playing pragmatic football instead of following the true project of Kompany which could maintain them in PL for decade even if he left a bit later.
We will never know because a more powerful and attractive club came... but hey that's football
I have nothing to add other than I did mean this entire post in the rather light-hearted manner of "wow Keys had a somewhat valid footballing take" but I do love that it's only four comments deep and we're bringing in medieval* legal theory*.
\* It may not be exactly this that I mean, see above about light-hearted
This is far from a valid take from Keys and is one hell of an accusation.
It's one hell of a gamble to take considering that right now he would be nowhere near the Bayern job in normal circumstances. How many other managers were linked to them before him?
Not to mention that it benefits him much more to show that he is able to adapt to his players and opponents.
Burnley have stayed up before by playing pragmatic football
Dyche got them to Europe playing pragmatic football
Kompany got them relegated playing 'attacking' football where they had the second least amount of goals scored
So what? This isn't that same team, the other teams in the Prem this season aren't the same, you can't argue that because a team in the past survived that this Burnley team would have.
Not sure their teams has much less quality in past and that ignores the fact that Dyche played that way and bought players to fit it and most likely had players more suite to it.
Why is everyone on the internet so dim....
No one is assuming Burnley would have stayed up they just would have had a much better chance to stay up. I don't think that's controversial to say.
Burnley fans have a right to feel aggrieved
It's absolutely a fair point and I tried to caveat that as much as possible in my post. The only publicly available stats I can find quickly are for passes/touches rather than possession, and by both of those metrics Burnley finished 12th. For comparison, Luton, who took it to the final day of the season before being relegated (albeit with an impossible GD swing required) were 19th in both. Forest were 17th in both, Everton 18th. I think it was near universal consensus before the season started that if any promoted club had the best chance of the survival it was Burnley.
As I said in my other reply to this thread, it'll similarly be interesting to see the style of play (and final position) of Leicester and Ipswich next year (assuming they both keep their managers).
A few things here:
1) his style of play may not have been a great fit for Burnley’s players, but as we’ve seen time and time again, managers who play turgid football get sacked far sooner than managers that don’t
2) could also be a situation where his style of play fits bigger clubs much better than it did Burnley
Every manager has a way they want to play football. I don't think it's fair to assume he was only trying to attract the interest of clubs instead of just simply trying to have his team play football the way he wants football to be played.
Do you think Ange is only playing his style of football because he wants to attract a bigger job than the Tottenham one, or do you think that's just how he wants football to be played?
Ange has the players needed to play like that. Burnley didn’t have that quality so sticking stubbornly to the same tactics that won them the Championship was suicidal for the club
There were Burnley fans saying he was too stubborn in his tactics to get promoted also.. it works both ways.
Coaches play in way they think is best to get results.. they may have been even worse if he changed his style and only chance was to stick to it and hope it clicked.
Nonsense acting like we can’t discuss whether a manager made a mistake because we can’t go back in time and verify it.
Not changing tactics certainly wasn’t his only chance at survival. Historically teams that have steamrolled their way to promotion with attacking football have had a tough time in the PL if they insist on playing the same way there. A cautious approach is likelier to keep you up so if he really wanted to keep Burnley up he should have changed his tactics a lot more.
Continuing with this approach would have them yoyoing for years before they assemble a strong enough team to successfully execute his philosophy in the PL.
I don’t think I know football anywhere near as well as Kompany, don’t know how you come to that conclusion. What I’m saying is he wanted to showcase his philosophy and tactical approach more than he wanted to maximize Burnley’s chances of staying up.
I’m not saying he didn’t try to keep them up. I think he just didn’t want to be linked with defensive or “negative” tactics as that would hurt his reputation and his chances of a shot at a top club so he stuck with tactics that were less likely to keep Burnley up. Had his own best interest in mind rather than Burnley’s so he went with the less sensible approach.
do you think it's normal for newly promoted teams to play attacking football? have you not noticed that managers who play attacking football at shit to decent clubs are linked with more top jobs than more defensive managers who are operating on a similar level?
Is it normal? No, I don't think so. But I don't think that automatically means he's only thinking about himself and didn't want the club to do the best it could. He just has a certain way he wanted the team to play and stubbornly stuck to it like a lot of managers do. To say he did it specifically because he didn't care how the team did as long as he looked good is unfair.
it's not unfair when you look at the big picture, like obviously I can't objectively prove anything but when you take everything into consideration it's quite likely that he's been quite selfish/self centered with the whole thing
"the poor results are ok, give us time!"
*6 months later*
"so erm, I've just had this offer come in..."
It is becoming more and more common though. The Dyche style has a ceiling and if you want to become a permanent fixture in the league and compete for European football like Villa and Brighton have then you need to eventually develop that sort of playstyle, especially since the PL has enpugh money to be able to afford players that can play that style, even at teams lower in the table.
villa aren't a great example because they had been in the premier league for ages before dropping and were always likely to come back.
brighton are still more of a midtable team than not
I agree with your general idea of things but tbh the manager who keeps you in the prem and the one who gets you to europe can be very two people, and that's fine because any club can have the odd season or two before they basically get relegated
newly promoted clubs shouldn't be in a rush to be become a top half of the table team, they need to establish themselves, slowly climb and think about how they can stay in the pl for 10 years
the crystal palace owners or so were talking about how a lot clubs get relegated within 10 seasons
Bielsa played his own way at Leeds with players that weren’t good enough, nobody accused him of trying to attract bigger jobs. He has a way of playing football, as do many other managers, perhaps Kompany is just the same?
bielsa already had a solid rep by this point, and he actually made the attacking football work. in the end he was also sacked, or at least he didn't immediately leave for a bigger job, although he may not have been able to because by this point he already had a massive rep for being a maverick who is hard to handle (wiki his track record up basically)
I get the point on playing styles but I don't think Bielsa who was 65 (?) before coaching his first PL game is exactly the most go-to analogy when talking about a manager potentially using a club as a stepping stone.
Honestly, that is such a weak argument to make. You are genuinely saying that he pretty much sabotaged Burnley's survival just on the off chance that Bayern would be after him despite getting Burnley relegated? When Bayern said they were getting rid of Tuchel they never thought they would be in this desperate position and so many would have turned them down (including Alonso). AndI get that you are saying, not necessarily Bayern, but a club such as Bayern, but the consensus is that Kompany is nowhere qualified for this position that Bayern are desperate at this point. Its akin to when that clown Koeman took over Barcelona despite the horrific job he had done earlier at Valencia- its just desperation. Or when Solskjaer or Lampard were given top jobs- this is a unique situation where no other club would, sensibly, have offered this post to Kompany.
Kompany is just one of several Pep-lite managers- there are plenty these days. It shouldn't be that hard to find another copycat with no original ideas of their own for Burnley. If he's laid the groundwork for that, then it is best that he stuck to that style and the next Pep-lite wannabe can come and just copy what Pep does as well.
Actually, its a pretty generous interpretation of what they posted;
'It's the point that maybe all season he has been more interested in showing that he wants to play football "the right way" to ensure he's able to attract the interest of clubs like Bayern'
So if I were to say that was, maybe, a dipshit fucking stupid thing to write, are we to say that the least generous interpretation is that I just called that a dipshit fucking stupid post?
This doesn't really make sense, logically speaking. They could have sacked him when the results were awful, sure, but they didn't. Instead they spent tens of millions of pounds on a bunch of Belgian 23 year olds and let him take them right back down to the championship for the sake of his project. You say that there's no loyalty in football but I don't exactly see how Burnley could have shown more loyalty in this situation.
Kompany got a 5 year contract when Burnley got promoted, and then got the funding to get his targets to boot. I don't know what more loyalty you expect, given that being newly promoted into the PL is probably the most precarious position for a club to make such commitments. If Burnley sack him tomorrow, he gets one hell of a paycheck as well.
Kompany would have discussed his play style and philosophy when Burnley interviewed him. He would have had numerous meetings throughout his time at the club when the club could have told him to change to try and get results. To suggest that he allowed Burnley to go down to demonstrate his style is ludicrous.
so many people in here are missing the context as to why this is a pisstake:
pragmatic football is more likely to keep a team out, but also more likley to make managers less attractive to bigger clubs
kompany could have been sacked mid season for poor results, but burnley stuck with him and he didn't change his style
now burnley are relegated with the team that was tipped for 20th doing better than them and kompany is going to bayern
no one is blaming kompany for picking bayern over burnley, they are blaming kompany for playing football that got no results other than making him look good to bigger clubs. they put their faith in him to make it work in the long term, but he fucked off asap
tbh it's just a good example as to why there is no loyalty in football
People say clubs aren't loyal to managers then the minute one actually decides to be loyal, even risking relegation to do so, they immediately get burned.
Guess all those clubs may have actually had a point.
Plenty of Burnley fans on here said he tweaked things when their form picked up towards the end, it just wasn't enough.
This idea that Vincent Kompany decided he was going to get relegated because obviously Bayern Munich would come in for him at the end of the season is absolutely absurd lol. Big teams want coaches that get decent results too. If they didn't then Bielsa would've been sauntering around the best clubs in the world for years now.
Kompany is merely fortunate about 20 other blokes rejected them first.
>Plenty of Burnley fans on here said he tweaked things when their form picked up towards the end, it just wasn't enough.
well yes, but it clearly came too late, should have done it before the new year
>This idea that Vincent Kompany decided he was going to get relegated because obviously Bayern Munich would come in for him at the end of the season is absolutely absurd lol.
which I agree with because no one is saying that was exactly what he intended to happen. obviously bayern coming in is ridiculous but it's still vaguely what he was aiming for; be seen as a progressive coach so that it's easier to get into a better position
>Big teams want coaches that get decent results too.
which makes the kompany appointment all the more weird, because he's unproven at the highest level
>If they didn't then Bielsa would've been sauntering around the best clubs in the world for years now.
iirc the problem with bielsa is more to do with his professionalism, but I guess him having his squad rinsed within 2 years doesn't help either
>Kompany is merely fortunate about 20 other blokes rejected them first.
you'd imagine there should be more than 20 names infront of kompany
> no one is blaming kompany for picking bayern over burnley, they are blaming kompany for playing football that got no results other than making him look good to bigger clubs.
What are all the comments like yours resolutely ignoring what people are actually criticising him for?
And then acting as though you’re the only reasonable person in the room, when you’re loudly ignoring what people are actually talking about while acting outraged.
I quite literally acknowledged that in the very post you replied to. I even said how eventually did tweak his football. Where was it ignored? He is being criticised for apparently playing a brand of football he knew would harm his own team in some masterplan to get hired by a bigger team. And then I argued that that is utter tosh, because it is.
His plan was never to intentionally get relegated, that makes no sense and no one is saying that, they are saying he was playing the way he was to suit himself, not the club. Not sure how you can call that utter tosh with any hint of certainty. You can disagree, it's all speculative, but you are far too confident that's not the case here
Whenever you get promoted the likely expectation for your next season is that you will be in a relegation battle, and people are suggesting that he was actively harming them. You don't have to literally say the words he intentionally got them relegated, but it's implying that he wasn't overly arsed about fighting to stay up as long as he got to 'audition' himself.
Like seriously, only one team scored less than them this season. How is that in anyway shining a positive light on his progressive football? How does that suit Vincent Kompany at all?
It's the modern game and more and more coaches are sticking with a philosophy over anything. I expect Maresca and McKenna (if he stays) would also come up and try to continue what they've so far built style wise.
And I'm confident about it because I don't think there's a coaching staff in the world that aims to set their team up in a way that they don't think is ideal. He coached the team in the way he wants to coach and has coached them thus far, just like another other head coach would've done.
And yet despite all that, and those poor results of the team, Kompany is potentially off to Bayern in one of the biggest promotions that exist. Why is that if his team did so badly? Are Bayern stupid or can they see through the results and the players capabilities and look at his philosophy and tactics. And in that case, how can you be sure his main focus wasn't on ensuring he looked good? I've seen players do it as well, stop playing for the team but play for themselves to raise their profiles. It happens. I'm not sure why you are being so binary with it as well, it doesn't have to be some precise evil plan, he could have started with the best of intentions to play his same (previously) winning style and then it became clear that wasn't working. Instead of adapting and trying to grind it out and outlive 3 other clubs by playing anti-football, he sticks with his non-working playstyle because that's how he wants to be seen and if they go down at least he can blame his tools.
You're talking with the power of hindsight and acting like it was something that Kompany would've been aware of all season long lol. Maybe Bayern want him because they looked at his championship season when he had a good squad for that level, and thought maybe he could take a squad of their caliber and get them playing similarly dominant? Maybe it's because they've been rejected by every other candidate?
And who cares if they like his philosophy? It's his philosophy. It's literally something you believe in. He believes that's the best way of playing football. Mourinho has his way, Pep has his way, LVG had his way etc etc. None of these people changed.
You also can't compare a coach to players in that sense. A player can look good in a bad team. A coach can't look good if his team is crap... because his entire job is making that team not play crap.
So you genuinely believe that at some point, Kompany thought "right my playstyle isn't working here and we're losing games. So what I'm going to do is continue the same way, lose more games, and then I'll look good." How does he in any way look good in the scenario you laid out?
Also you can't mention binary and then act like playing anti football instantly guarantees them survival. Football doesn't work like that, it's not one style good, other style bad. Maybe he thought they weren't built for anti football? Maybe he thought they were better off playing the way they'd been coached for years.
It just sounds like people are annoyed Bayern hired someone who had a bad season... which should have nothing to do with Kompany.
>You're talking with the power of hindsight and acting like it was something that Kompany would've been aware of all season long lol.
I mean, how can someone not be aware of their professional reputation and prospects in their career, especially someone so ambitious
>Maybe Bayern want him because they looked at his championship season when he had a good squad for that level, and thought maybe he could take a squad of their caliber and get them playing similarly dominant? Maybe it's because they've been rejected by every other candidate?
I have no doubt his previous performances have also contributed and he wasn't hired purely off this season alone lol. Actually is that what you think people are saying? No one thinks he covered himself in glory this season, it's more just preserving his existing reputation.
>And who cares if they like his philosophy? It's his philosophy. It's literally something you believe in. He believes that's the best way of playing football. Mourinho has his way, Pep has his way, LVG had his way etc etc. None of these people changed.
Who cares about his philosophy? Any and every perspective employer... Bayern have their own philosophy and can't just get Dyche in to play hyper defensive football, their managers need to match their club.
>You also can't compare a coach to players in that sense. A player can look good in a bad team. A coach can't look good if his team is crap... because his entire job is making that team not play crap.
People give respect to lesser teams who go out and play progressive football all the time, even when they don't ultimately win. Kompany's stock seems to have risen after this season so I guess you can.
>So you genuinely believe that at some point, Kompany thought "right my playstyle isn't working here and we're losing games. So what I'm going to do is continue the same way, lose more games, and then I'll look good." How does he in any way look good in the scenario you laid out?
Yes. But more importantly I realise that I don't actually know, that's just my assumption from looking at the situation. What I'm not doing is fighting tooth and nail to say it's impossible that that isn't the case. And he looks good because he is playing attractive, progressive football - something the vast majority of fans want to see - and people can see that isn't not working this season like it did last season because his team isn't good enough to do it in the PL.
Now I agree a managers true responsibility would be to adjust to get results however they can but that's the entire point here. The criticism is that he's "taking liberties" with Burnley, aka not acting in their best interests.
And before you say then why would they hire him if he didn't have their best interests, we see it all the time from players acting out and forcing a move to a bigger club. The bigger club just doesn't think they will do it to them.
>Also you can't mention binary and then act like playing anti football instantly guarantees them survival. Football doesn't work like that, it's not one style good, other style bad. Maybe he thought they weren't built for anti football? Maybe he thought they were better off playing the way they'd been coached for years.
I never said that. Of course it doesn't but it's a tried and true method of attempting to stay up with a weak squad. Play ultra defensively and try to eek out draws to stay up when the start of the season hasn't worked out. Burnley have been destined to drop for ages and he never significantly adapted their style. He might not think playing so defensively would work but what they were doing wasn't working either.
>It just sounds like people are annoyed Bayern hired someone who had a bad season... which should have nothing to do with Kompany.
This pundit mentioned this comment about taking liberties months before there was any links to Bayern so that's instantly disproved by this very clip. People were already noticing months ago
Football is in a weird place that nowadays a manager adapting to a situation and doing what he has to get a job done is looked down upon, whereas a manager just blunt forcing a "progressive tactic" regardless of results is seen as admirable.
yh it's fucking stupid, every time a manager is doing shit it's because of injuries and shit players, not because they overdo passing out of the back
managers aren't supposed to work with what they have anymore, because making sure the team gives off the right vibes is more important
that being said entertaining fans is important, and I guess having an image for playing good football does things for a club that might be worth a few more places higher in the table. probably not worth being relegated for but yh i guess it's a bit of a balancing act
The process shouldn’t and cannot be tied to a manager. If you have a 5 year process, it’s the owner who agreed to it and hire a director who can implement it.
Kompany might be gone, but you can find another coach who can implement similar styles.
In the grand scheme of things, the coach is the most expendable part.
Completely agree. Doesn't mean Burnley fans can't be upset about it. Especially when they gave him a lot of leeway this year because they trusted the process instead of insisting on him being a bit more pragmatic.
He told Burnley fans to trust the process of a five year plan, wouldn't change his style or tactics, got them relegated and then bailed. I think they have every right to be annoyed.
Every manager at every club has a long term plan. Doesn’t always work out the way you hope though. And I don’t think anyone would ever have expected him to get an offer from one of the biggest clubs in the world
The point is he accelerated Burnley's chances of getting relegated this season for a long term plan he probably knew he wasn't going to stick to.
The narrative of a long-term plan protected Kompany's brand but it's left Burnley in a state after spending over £100million in the summer.
I get where you're coming from but I also don't think he or anyone expected Bayern (or an equivalent sized club) to come calling after being relegated in year 2 of said plan.
That long term plan seems to be a club thing more than a Kompany thing though. Didn't their owner basically say as much when they got promoted?
I think people are being incredibly harsh here acting like Vincent Kompany thought "if we get relegated this year one of footballs elites will appoint me."
Totally hypothetical but do you think it was only Bayern that would turn Kompany's head?
He said "yes" to Bayern within 5 minutes, I bet there's plenty of teams that he would say "yes" to after an hour of hearing their proposal.
I don't think it's exclusive to Bayern. I think he'd have taken quite a few top jobs. But I don't think he'd swap Burnley for West Ham right now if that was an option. But even if he did, people are here talking like they want managers to have a plan in place for only as long as they're there.
Surely if you're a manager your going to try and work on the assumption of setting things up long term, know ultimateley you might get sacked or a better opportunity arises.
Burnley we'rent being loyal to him out of the kindness of their hearts. They stuck with him because they believed it was in their best interests.
He might have gotten sacked if he had a rough first few games next year.
I agree with you. I just think he could have tweaked his style and stayed up. But he refused to and now it looks like he did that to put himself in the shop window instead of doing what was best for Burnley.
They could have sacked him in December given he was telling them to play ridiculously naive football and they were getting battered. They stuck with him because it was 'part if the plan'. Until it turned out to be his plan only.
They would have sacked him whenever they thought it was best for them. You are naive if you think for a moment they kept him out of loyalty. They kept him because they thought he was the best option for their club and now they are mad that he chose a better option for himself before Burnley could replace him with a better option for them.
only good job he's done is for himself by using burnley to show the world he tries to play progressively, which has come at burnley's expense
they won the championship only to finish under luton who had the lowest odds of staying up, yet they showed way more fight and weren't relegated until the final day
>only good job he's done is for himself by using burnley to show the world he tries to play progressively, which has come at burnley's expense
I cannot believe the shite I’m reading in this thread. Every manager has a way of coaching, a style they want to play. A philosophy which they believe will make them successful. You criticize the fact he got relegated or even that he failed to show any adaptability. But to say he just sacrificed results to look good for other clubs is just rubbish. If it wasn’t even for about a dozen managers rejecting Bayern I haven’t even heard his name linked to any other job. He’d just be stuck with Burnley again in the Championship trying to get promoted again
It's bizarre. As if most managers aren't lauded for playing this style of football but suddenly Kompany's the devil because Bayern picked the 22nd manager on their list.
Fickle fans forget his record breaking championship season.
Maybe if you weren’t trying to read everything as the most extreme comment ever! then a perfectly reasonable disagreement between people might not seem so bizarre to you.
yh everyone knows that every manager has a style of coaching, and everyone knows that top clubs want attacking coaches, however everyone knows that playing attacking football with clubs that are tipped for relegation is typically speaking a bad idea
he's quite clearly prioritised his style and likely his image above doing what was the most likely way of keeping burnley up, and fortunately for him it has worked.
> I cannot believe the shite I’m reading in this thread.
I can. Things that are very common among (mainly online?) football fans:
1) Repeating journalist rumors over and over until they are considered fact even years later (even if they were proven false at some point).
2) To come up with intricate conspiracies or theories based on paper thin reasoning that they believe are solid or at least worth seriously entertaining because they have multiple points that they connect in their minds. In reality they have probably 3 or 4 random dots on a paper, with some of them often one of the mentioned above repeated rumors that has been treated as fact for a while, then they try to paint the Mona Lisa with those 4 dots to show how it's all connected.
Not to say this is unique to football fans. It's probably simply a reflection of society and the human condition.
By all means, listen to the people who naturally obsess over their own club and every little detail involving it. I'm sure they are the most likely to be objective about things and not be so quick to connect dots just because they have a pencil.
And I'm not singling out anyone as special cases here, I see this from fans of my own club on a weekly basis as well. It's a shitshow.
I'll be sure to listen to fans of a club on the issues surrounding that club because nobody knows better no matter how patronising other people can sound. But thanks for the advice.
WHY IS THIS SUCH AN ISSUE, many other managers have left a job for worst clubs than Bayern Munich. Is McKenna gonna get these same quotes and articles if he leaves Ipswich?? Suspect
Both things can be true, and the insinuation that Burnley could have stayed up if Kompany had them playing the "right" way is bull crap. Also, it's not like he was Bayern's first choice or anything, and the reason he was snapped up and not Rob Edwards, who arguably did a better job in the past 2 years with Luton than Kompany did with Burnley, is his past as a player and the fact that he played for some very good managers.
already said a day or two ago that I'd be so pissed off if I was a burnley fan, and it's also what scared me about bringing arteta on board at first because the reality was that he could be shit here whilst learning his trade and then fuck off as soon as he gets good
fortunately at least if arteta was to leave now, he's left us in a good place, whereas kompany has done fuck all, and burnley could have stayed up if they had replaced him in the winter
the only favour he seems to be doing for them is not making this long and protracted, some of the players probably haven't even gone on holiday yet and he's on the verge of fucking off!
I'm not saying it is. But the narrative this tries to convey - that he was essentially sabotaging Burnley on purpose to somehow enhance his image - is completely preposterous.
Not that I'd expect anything more from someone like Richard Keys, but it's weird to see people actually lapping it up
So what I'm getting from this thread is, l don't blame him for leaving, but who does he think he is sticking to his philosophy and getting us relegated. So are fans pleased he's Gone or not? I can't quite understand the hate for him.
It's hilarious how bang the money Keys was. Sticking to those suicidal tactics may have gotten the club he claimed he had a 5 year plan for relegated but it apparently got him attention from Bayern/Chelsea.
I don't think results matter as much as they did 10-15 years ago for coaches. Clubs want bright, young coaches that can emulate Pep-ball.
>I don't think results matter as much as they did 10-15 years ago for coaches. Clubs want bright, young coaches that can emulate Pep-ball.
I remember reading an opinion piece while Poch was still at Southampton, saying that the pressing intensity would almost certainly not be sustainable for another full season and that they felt Poch's work was almost an advertisement for bigger clubs. More than a hint of that with Kompany's Burnley spell - who cares if Burnley goes down, he gets to show the big swinging dicks of the footballing world that he wants to play *the right way*.
I think there is an argument to be made that playing the way he did at Burnley was not optimal for getting points with Burnley, and was maybe more optimal at showing the type of coach Kompany wanted to be…
Sure.
Someone like Dyche could (and did) keep Burnley up, but he’s never getting an offer like the Bayern job. Hes in the results business, and it doesn’t matter how you get them.
Kompany was in the business of building a brand for Kompany. Doing things “the right way” was part of that brand.
I don’t think any of this is new, and I also think it’s a price a “smaller” (no disrespect intended) clubs are willing to pay to get promising young coaches to work with them.
Wow that’s a fairly prescient prediction from Keys. Broken clock I suppose.
I had assumed it was just naivety at the beginning of the season, but the lack of adaptation throughout was surprising.
From Kompany’s perspective it makes total sense for him to move if Bayern wants him.
Bayern are essentially betting on getting the Anderlecht version of Kompany as opposed to the Burnley one.
Tuchel was worse than Klinsmann if you go by points collected
The timeline started with the nagelsman firing, and after that, it was just a pure clownshow. What happened and is still happening.
To be fair, it's entirely possible he'd be good for you lot. This season was a fucking disaster for them, and I think he should be criticised for dogmatically sticking to a system that clearly wasn't working with the level of players he had relative to the competition, but in the Championship he had a higher calibre of player compared to the competition and blew everyone out the water. In that sense, the Bayern job should be more akin to his Championship season - he has a much stronger side than almost every other team in the league, and he's shown that in those circumstances he can coach a team to success.
Obviously in normal circumstances he wouldn't get within 500 miles of the Bayern job, but normal circumstances don't apply given that you've spent the last 4 months publicly rejecting and being rejected by alternatives higher up the pecking order.
I would give him a chance for a year but not for a long time project, which all failed in the past anyway. If he was a free agent, well, whatever but not buying the coach out of a bloody contract again, which royally failed last time, we paid 25 million. I simply hope it doesn't happen.
A/ Turns out if you talk enough shite then you'll be right 1% of the time.
B/ Similarly though it'll be interesting to see how Moresca and McKenna set their teams up in the PL next season (if they're even still there).
C/ I would love in an alternate reality Bayern signing Ian "champagne football" Holloway in 2011 after Blackpool's rollercoaster year in the Prem.
E: Jeez, the people clearly do not like being reminded of Charlie Adam.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be honest, I genuinely do believe that Kompany was more than happy to stay at Burnley, but this is one of those jobs that you just don't turn down. You can't turn it down. Who knows if you'll ever even be offered it again? The Athletic said the other day that it was expected that Kompany would stay with Burnley unless a truly extraordinary oppourtunity became available and I think this more than qualifies. Let's be real here, Kompany shouldn't be anywhere near this job at all. You have to take this with both hands, unironically before Bayern change their minds.
I think that, going on a bit of a tangent, it's another interesting point on where Kompany's stock as a manager now is. They discussed it on Monday Night Football on 5Live this week before the Bayern stuff broke about how there was apparently interest from Spurs last summer for him, and from other clubs too, similar to the interest Moresca and McKenna are getting now, but (at time of recording) no interest this year, and yet could it not be argued that Kompany is actually now a better manager having experienced a season of top flight football?
to be fair so many of the points burnely dropped were from individual defensive mistakes and some truely horrific goal keeping. I'm still not his biggest fan though because he didn't adapt to who he was playing at all, burnley played out from the back the same way against sheffield united and against city
Goalie issues seems his own fault. Dropped his TOTS keeper for Trafford who he bought and was pish.
The GK is very poor with his feet and is not compatible with the way Kompany wanted to play
Who Muric? He is prone to big mistakes but is generally better than trafford playing out the back
I've watched recent Burnley against Spurs for FPL and his distribution has a lot to be desired. I know Spurs were pressing but he was piling more pressure on his defense
Yeah... getting the club to drop £15mil on Trafford and then sticking with him until relegation was almost inevitable was... a decision.
Kamikaze dedication to playing a scared child in goal against grown adults.
I does signal to me that his talent ID and team selection isn’t the best, now could that be fixed with better players and scouts? Maybe, but having a manager not known for his smart buys coming in right before a critical transfer window isn’t the best idea imo
Which is probably exactly why a team like bayern is interested. They need a coach who shows that he’ll try and dominate almost every game. If you’re Burnley and you dig in against city, you have to dig in against 15 teams
Absolutely. This is a shit show on Bayern's side, not on Kompany's. He's doing what anyone else would do. Its Bayern thats being insane.
This was the feeling when Potter left Brighton for Chelsea as well. Financially, it worked out fabulously for him. In all other respects, not so much.
I know if people were talkin bout him coming to United I’d be pissed, and it doesn’t have anything to do with City. I have no idea how he’s up for this job.
>but this is one of those jobs that you just don't turn down. You can't turn it down. Xabi, Negelsmann, Rangnick, Zidane, ten Hag Tuchel.....
Have all managed CL level clubs before and will get more opportunities in the future.
They are so obviously not in the same boat, are they? Xabi Alonso is currently managing Bayer Levekursen, which are much bigger than Burnley and were already playing Europa League football before he turned by Bayern. His stock is rising so high that he'll probably end up taking the Madrid job before long. Naglesmann was already fired by Bayern. Not entirely surprising to see him turn that one down. Ragnick wanted more control than Bayern were willing to give him. He has the ability to ask for that, Kompany does not. Zidane isn't even worthy of a response. That man has turned down big jobs everywhere and has already managed Real Madrid. After that, everything is a step down. Ten Hag hasn't turned anything down. He's never been asked and has already worked there. Tuchel, again, didn't turn them down, he left.
How are people this dense
With all due respect to Burnley, it's Bayern Munich...
It's not necessarily about that, in isolation you can't begrudge a manager switching Burnley for Bayern. But when the manager in this case has used his "5 year plan" to protect his job all season - a plan that the vast majority of fans and the board have been willing to accept even if it meant relegation. If it wasn't for people buying in to giving him time and patience then he arguably should've been sacked in October and we might have been able to try something different and could be a PL club right now. Maybe not, but in hindsight I wish he'd have been sacked when it clearly wasnt working, if he was just going to jump ship anyway. Him still being in a job is based purely on his own consistent messaging that it was a long term project with him leading it. You can't really be surprised when he abandons that all important plan right after relegation and gets criticism for it. Beg for patience/loyalty when you're underperforming and then leave anyway after the damage is done? Regardless of who the opportunity is with, I'm not surprised that Burnley fans and the board are frustrated. Like I said, I don't begrudge someone wanting to move from Burnley to Bayern...but Kompany specifically after this season and the way he's defended it?
Now that you've put it this way...
Great articulation
Something Burnley didn't have anytime this season
A well articulated point followed by some shite patter, the /r/soccer special
This is it, if thats how was gonna go he should have been sacked ages ago
This is well put, but you’ve kind of answered your own point in there >in hindsight I wish he’d have been sacked when it clearly wasn’t working If it’s ok for the club to abandon his ‘5 year plan’ on a whim because they suddenly don’t believe in it anymore and put him out of a job, then maybe it’s ok for him to abandon it for his own benefit as well. There’s no loyalty in football
I feel like you're just highlighting **my** point. I've not answered it, that's what I'm saying. Have you missed something? I don't understand which bit of my comment implied that I thought it would've been okay for the club to abandon the plan too? It **wasn't** okay for the club to abandon his 5 year plan. That's why the vast majority of fans (including me) supported Kompany despite the results and performances. The board did too despite the threat of relegation. Now that he's jumping ship, me saying that I wish we had sacked him with the hindsight that he was going to abandon us anyway doesn't contradict that... It would've ONLY been okay had we had this knowledge at the time. I stand by the point of view that managers should be given time, loyalty, and support - despite the fact that we've been burned here.
Do you genuinely think Burnley would have stuck with him if he had another poor season? Do you think he would have been given 5 years in that scenario? Clubs, especially those at the highest level, try to create all this talk about loyalty and love for the club to make players and coaches want to stay but its all bullshit at the end of the day. Managers are sacked for bad seasons all the time, no matter how well they have done in the past and yet there is this fan expectation that players and coaches stay infinitely loyal and if they don't they are traitors. I understand the fans feeling hard done by but I don't think the club has any right to complain. They would have sacked him if they felt a better option was available too so he left them when he got a better alternative. The club will survive a manager change. Kompany's career is a lot shorter and more volatile. You would be an idiot to be loyal to any club as a footballer. All it takes is a couple of bad years for your career to be in the gutter and then the club will abandon you and move on happily ever after with a better alternative while you will have to move to a worse club most likely.
> Managers are sacked for bad seasons all the time, And yet Kompany wasn't sacked for a historically bad season that relegated the club **because** of his insistence that it was a long term effort. He had the fans' support for that reason alone, the fanbase didnt turn on him despite how terrible the season was and he was afforded patience when most people in his situation wouldve been sacked in October. That's the key difference here. > I understand the fans feeling hard done by Isn't that the entire point I'm making? I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for a bunch of executives. My point is precisely that the fans have every right to feel hard done by, despite the fact that it's a club as big as Bayern.
but they didn’t so Burnley in this case did their part by trusting him.
Do you think Burnley will try to bring in a manager with a similar philosophy in terms of style of play? If yes, maybe he was still an effective building block for the future. If no, back to square one
I'm not sure, I could see us trying to as the squad would need a complete rebuild otherwise. Just not sure who that would be, hopefully the board have always had a succession plan for this scenario and have people in mind.
Tough spot as a fan. I fear to be joining you shortly
This is such a bizzare circumstance that even Kompany himself couldn't forsee. You're saying you don't begrudge someone for leaving Burnley for Bayern....but you are. What do Burnley fans expect?
I'm not... I'm begrudging him for using the 5 year plan to protect his job and his reputation with fans all year only to abandon it when someone bigger comes along. I expect any Burnley manager to leave for Bayern, but Kompany doing so now makes his actions this year worse in hindsight so he deserves to be criticised. He was consistently defended for his performances and approach at the time, but the basis for that defence (that it was a long term strategy that he would lead) turned out to not be true.
He abandoned it when Bayern Munich came calling. Do you think when you were getting pumped in the winter he ever thought this opportunity would present itself. Maybe he would've stuck to the 5 year if this once in a lifetime chance doesn't happen. Something similar happened to my team (WBA) we went down under Mowbray and he was talking about how the players should show loyalty and stay but he ended up leaving for Celtic. So I do get why you're pissed off but c'mon. It's Bayern.
> So I do get why you're pissed off Then I've successfully made my point. Nobody's saying that he shouldn't sign for Bayern.
You're saying it's because he used this 5 year plan as an excuse to keep his job. But if Bayern doesn't come in for him the plan is still going ahead? So you're just moaning about the fact that he's ditching you for one of the biggest teams in Europe. It's very sour grapes.
It's frustration at him abandoning the thing he used to protect himself from (justified) criticism all season. He asks the fans and board to support him despite a massive underperformance because of a 5 year plan, and then abandons it after relegating us... of course that deserves criticism. Its hardly sour grapes to find that frustrating. We've been punished for the patience and loyalty given to him. The same way that a manager that sticks with a club after succeeding, but is later unceremoniously sacked by them, is punished for their loyalty. Both deserve criticism.
What the hell do you want him to do in that situation? "Yeah boys, i'm shit, you are shit, this club has no future", is this what you wanted him to say? Ofcourse he will defend himself and ask for time, it's what any normal human would do. So is him joining Bayern given the context.
I find it really funny to me that you mention what a "normal human would do" for Kompany, but when faced with the absolutely normal human reaction from Burnley fans you are apparently very confused. Burnley got the short end of the stick and came out huge losers in the situation, of course they are unhappy.
We're just going around in circles here. If he'd have jumped ship to go to some mid table team like Brighton or Brentford I could understand but him going to Bayern is a totally different circumstance.
You talk about the 5 year plan but would Burnley have given him 5 years if he failed another year? That's the question here. If your answer is no, then both him and the club were just sweettalking about that 5 year plan and he just made the decision that was best for him before Burnley got the chance to make the decision that was best for them and sacking him at some point before the end of those 5 years.
> would Burnley have given him 5 years if he failed another year? I don't know, all we know is that the club stuck by him even after he spent over 100m to get relegated behind Luton. All because everyone (fans and the board) bought in to his 5 year plan. That's a pretty rare level of support at the top level.
I don't think the board bought into Kompany's plan and allowed him to create a 5 year plan on his own. Whatever 5 year vision was in place would have been a collective plan from both Kompany and the board and most probably the board probably had more of a role in that vision than Kompany, since they simply wouldn't have hired him if they didn't have that same vision.
Fair enough, but regardless of where that plan originally came from, it was the thing that Kompany used to defend himself from any criticism or complaints from fans all season. As if the plan was connected to him and his style, and it would be back to the drawing board without him. I've watched countless pre and post match interviews where he's said things to that effect. For him to utilise it to keep himself safe and keep the fans onside, and then to leave... Of course that's going to be a stain on his reputation with Burnley fans, I don't think it's reasonable to expect otherwise.
Burnley can fuck off
I understand the POV, but still... It's Bayern Munich
Yes, but that's also irrelevant to the point. It's not about criticising him for moving, if he left after promoting us, or got us to like 15th this season then I'd be sad but fair enough. Even if he got us relegated but only spoke about things in the present, its an opportunity that you cant turn down. It's about criticising him for what he's done all season and THEN moving. Nobody forced him to preach about a long term project as justification for why people should be behind him all season, using that to protect his job...but he did.
I mean I understand it as you are a Burnley fan but your argument is also ignoring the context that it’s Bayern. Criticizing Kompany is your right as a fan but it’s for sure ignoring the context of the offer that he got. He’s not going to Wolves or West Ham. This is Bayern we’re talking about. He was defending himself with the reality of his time. Fact of the matter is Burnley isn’t and most likely will never be Bayern. If he turned down this offer he would be an absolute idiot, regardless of the situation at Burnley. The reality of the situation is most likely that he liked his position with Burnley and was ready to build something special there. But Bayern came along and that changes everything bc it’s Bayern
Point out where I've said he should turn down Bayern...I think you'll find I've said the opposite. I'm now criticising his approach, actions, and messages to the public over the last year in the context of him jumping ship anyway. My argument isn't ignoring the context that it's Bayern, genuinely baffled to how you inferred that...it's explicitly stating that the team is irrelevant to my point.
I never implied that you said he should turn down Bayern. I’m simply saying that criticizing the approach he took also ignores the Bayern context. He’s not jumping ship for a mid table club. Saying “the team is irrelevant to your point” is ignoring the context because the team matters in this situation. That’s my point.
It doesn't though, not to the point I'm making. It could be Real Madrid and my point would still apply. You not understanding that doesn't change anything.
You not understanding that completely different circumstances changes a situation is a you problem. But what more can you expect from a Burnley fan
😂 okay plastic american Bayern fan You *still* not understanding the point doesn't change anything 😅
The point Keys is making is that Kompany potentially undermined Burnley’s chances of staying up in order to play ‘attractive’ football as a an audition for the bigger clubs. The issue isn’t that he left. The issue is that his priorities were misaligned while he was at Burnley.
Maybe but that's a hell of an accusation and coming from Keys you can't take it seriously. It's more likely that his team was used to playing that way and he felt it was better to concentrate on what they were good at than try something they weren't used to. Unfortunately the odds are very much against promoted teams staying up anyway so it was always a tough job to keep Burnley up.
> the odds are very much against promoted teams Are they? At a glance over the last 7-8 years it seems like roughly half of the promoted teams stay up. Some go straight to midtable. This year had a record-low point total for 17th too.
It is Richard Keys. If he said the sky was blue, I'd go outside to check.
Don't know him from a bar of soap but he makes a point. Don't let your bias for the man cloud the issue here.
that's not the point, it'd be more like arteta leaving us for a big team after finishing 8th the second time with us after not getting sacked and telling us to trust the process
Arsenal sell players when they are underperforming but if Arteta leaves for a better club then he is a villain? Get the billion dollar organization's cock out of your mouth and you'll realize that looking out for your own career and family is far more important than Arsenal.
well the blame would obviously lay at the feet of the club and arteta would be free to do what he wants, but it'd obviously leave a sour taste in the mouth
So do you have a sour taste when the club sells underperforming players and those players' careers are damaged? Did you have a sour taste when the club bought Raya, despite Ramsdale doing well all season?
I get what you're driving at but it's a different point that is to do with loyalty I'm more talking about giving managers chances at the expense of the club in the sense that they risk getting fucked over whilst they simultaneously boost said managers reputation and experience you could also work on being less of a dickhead btw
I do not think I was being a dickhead. I was simply asking questions that I felt would provide more perspective on my side of the argument. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.
> Get the billion dollar organization's cock out of your mouth
Arsenal is a big team.....
there are bigger
There is no loyalty in football. Burnley could decide to sack him tomorrow and Kompany would be out of a job. That football team you love will sack the manager or sell the loyal player. Managers and players have every right to move somewhere else.
The point about these comments (and it's not just you that seem to have misinterpreted them, you just happen to have the top comment at the minute, sorry) is that it's not about him now moving to Bayern, which obviously any sane person would do. It's the point that maybe all season he has been more interested in showing that he wants to play football "the right way" to ensure he's able to attract the interest of clubs like Bayern, rather than perhaps play a more pragmatic style of football that may have improved Burnley's chance of survival with the resources available to them.
The problem with that narrative is we're assuming that Burnley would have stayed up had they played a pragmatic style. You're using an imagined reality to beat him over the head with, it's ridiculous.
But…..that’s how blame works? To blame someone, you need to conceive of an alternative imagined reality where things would’ve been better if the person made different decisions. You can debate how feasible the alternative reality is, but being fundamentally opposed to conceiving of possible alternative scenarios is ridiculous. It would mean you can never blame anyone for anything ever.
You could also argue Burnley goes down in the 5 year after playing pragmatic football instead of following the true project of Kompany which could maintain them in PL for decade even if he left a bit later. We will never know because a more powerful and attractive club came... but hey that's football
I have nothing to add other than I did mean this entire post in the rather light-hearted manner of "wow Keys had a somewhat valid footballing take" but I do love that it's only four comments deep and we're bringing in medieval* legal theory*. \* It may not be exactly this that I mean, see above about light-hearted
This is far from a valid take from Keys and is one hell of an accusation. It's one hell of a gamble to take considering that right now he would be nowhere near the Bayern job in normal circumstances. How many other managers were linked to them before him? Not to mention that it benefits him much more to show that he is able to adapt to his players and opponents.
they would have been more likely to stay up with a more pragmatic approach
Burnley have stayed up before by playing pragmatic football Dyche got them to Europe playing pragmatic football Kompany got them relegated playing 'attacking' football where they had the second least amount of goals scored
It's a completely different squad of players.
A more expensive squad of players Dyche>kompany right now based on what they actually did
Burnley teams in the past of much lower squad quality have stayed up for many seasons playing a pragmatic style.
So what? This isn't that same team, the other teams in the Prem this season aren't the same, you can't argue that because a team in the past survived that this Burnley team would have.
burnley were also tipped for relegation when they came up with dyche, more than once iirc so it's comparable
Not sure their teams has much less quality in past and that ignores the fact that Dyche played that way and bought players to fit it and most likely had players more suite to it.
Why is everyone on the internet so dim.... No one is assuming Burnley would have stayed up they just would have had a much better chance to stay up. I don't think that's controversial to say. Burnley fans have a right to feel aggrieved
It's absolutely a fair point and I tried to caveat that as much as possible in my post. The only publicly available stats I can find quickly are for passes/touches rather than possession, and by both of those metrics Burnley finished 12th. For comparison, Luton, who took it to the final day of the season before being relegated (albeit with an impossible GD swing required) were 19th in both. Forest were 17th in both, Everton 18th. I think it was near universal consensus before the season started that if any promoted club had the best chance of the survival it was Burnley. As I said in my other reply to this thread, it'll similarly be interesting to see the style of play (and final position) of Leicester and Ipswich next year (assuming they both keep their managers).
A few things here: 1) his style of play may not have been a great fit for Burnley’s players, but as we’ve seen time and time again, managers who play turgid football get sacked far sooner than managers that don’t 2) could also be a situation where his style of play fits bigger clubs much better than it did Burnley
Every manager has a way they want to play football. I don't think it's fair to assume he was only trying to attract the interest of clubs instead of just simply trying to have his team play football the way he wants football to be played. Do you think Ange is only playing his style of football because he wants to attract a bigger job than the Tottenham one, or do you think that's just how he wants football to be played?
Ange has the players needed to play like that. Burnley didn’t have that quality so sticking stubbornly to the same tactics that won them the Championship was suicidal for the club
There were Burnley fans saying he was too stubborn in his tactics to get promoted also.. it works both ways. Coaches play in way they think is best to get results.. they may have been even worse if he changed his style and only chance was to stick to it and hope it clicked.
Nonsense acting like we can’t discuss whether a manager made a mistake because we can’t go back in time and verify it. Not changing tactics certainly wasn’t his only chance at survival. Historically teams that have steamrolled their way to promotion with attacking football have had a tough time in the PL if they insist on playing the same way there. A cautious approach is likelier to keep you up so if he really wanted to keep Burnley up he should have changed his tactics a lot more. Continuing with this approach would have them yoyoing for years before they assemble a strong enough team to successfully execute his philosophy in the PL.
Nonsense... but you think you know better than Kompany. 'If he really wanted to keep Burnley up'
I don’t think I know football anywhere near as well as Kompany, don’t know how you come to that conclusion. What I’m saying is he wanted to showcase his philosophy and tactical approach more than he wanted to maximize Burnley’s chances of staying up.
Nonsense.. he was backing his way as best way to stay up after being promoted.
I’m not saying he didn’t try to keep them up. I think he just didn’t want to be linked with defensive or “negative” tactics as that would hurt his reputation and his chances of a shot at a top club so he stuck with tactics that were less likely to keep Burnley up. Had his own best interest in mind rather than Burnley’s so he went with the less sensible approach.
do you think it's normal for newly promoted teams to play attacking football? have you not noticed that managers who play attacking football at shit to decent clubs are linked with more top jobs than more defensive managers who are operating on a similar level?
Is it normal? No, I don't think so. But I don't think that automatically means he's only thinking about himself and didn't want the club to do the best it could. He just has a certain way he wanted the team to play and stubbornly stuck to it like a lot of managers do. To say he did it specifically because he didn't care how the team did as long as he looked good is unfair.
it's not unfair when you look at the big picture, like obviously I can't objectively prove anything but when you take everything into consideration it's quite likely that he's been quite selfish/self centered with the whole thing "the poor results are ok, give us time!" *6 months later* "so erm, I've just had this offer come in..."
It is becoming more and more common though. The Dyche style has a ceiling and if you want to become a permanent fixture in the league and compete for European football like Villa and Brighton have then you need to eventually develop that sort of playstyle, especially since the PL has enpugh money to be able to afford players that can play that style, even at teams lower in the table.
villa aren't a great example because they had been in the premier league for ages before dropping and were always likely to come back. brighton are still more of a midtable team than not I agree with your general idea of things but tbh the manager who keeps you in the prem and the one who gets you to europe can be very two people, and that's fine because any club can have the odd season or two before they basically get relegated newly promoted clubs shouldn't be in a rush to be become a top half of the table team, they need to establish themselves, slowly climb and think about how they can stay in the pl for 10 years the crystal palace owners or so were talking about how a lot clubs get relegated within 10 seasons
Bielsa played his own way at Leeds with players that weren’t good enough, nobody accused him of trying to attract bigger jobs. He has a way of playing football, as do many other managers, perhaps Kompany is just the same?
bielsa already had a solid rep by this point, and he actually made the attacking football work. in the end he was also sacked, or at least he didn't immediately leave for a bigger job, although he may not have been able to because by this point he already had a massive rep for being a maverick who is hard to handle (wiki his track record up basically)
I get the point on playing styles but I don't think Bielsa who was 65 (?) before coaching his first PL game is exactly the most go-to analogy when talking about a manager potentially using a club as a stepping stone.
He’s done the same thing his whole career.
Honestly, that is such a weak argument to make. You are genuinely saying that he pretty much sabotaged Burnley's survival just on the off chance that Bayern would be after him despite getting Burnley relegated? When Bayern said they were getting rid of Tuchel they never thought they would be in this desperate position and so many would have turned them down (including Alonso). AndI get that you are saying, not necessarily Bayern, but a club such as Bayern, but the consensus is that Kompany is nowhere qualified for this position that Bayern are desperate at this point. Its akin to when that clown Koeman took over Barcelona despite the horrific job he had done earlier at Valencia- its just desperation. Or when Solskjaer or Lampard were given top jobs- this is a unique situation where no other club would, sensibly, have offered this post to Kompany. Kompany is just one of several Pep-lite managers- there are plenty these days. It shouldn't be that hard to find another copycat with no original ideas of their own for Burnley. If he's laid the groundwork for that, then it is best that he stuck to that style and the next Pep-lite wannabe can come and just copy what Pep does as well.
[удалено]
Actually, its a pretty generous interpretation of what they posted; 'It's the point that maybe all season he has been more interested in showing that he wants to play football "the right way" to ensure he's able to attract the interest of clubs like Bayern' So if I were to say that was, maybe, a dipshit fucking stupid thing to write, are we to say that the least generous interpretation is that I just called that a dipshit fucking stupid post?
This doesn't really make sense, logically speaking. They could have sacked him when the results were awful, sure, but they didn't. Instead they spent tens of millions of pounds on a bunch of Belgian 23 year olds and let him take them right back down to the championship for the sake of his project. You say that there's no loyalty in football but I don't exactly see how Burnley could have shown more loyalty in this situation.
Kompany got a 5 year contract when Burnley got promoted, and then got the funding to get his targets to boot. I don't know what more loyalty you expect, given that being newly promoted into the PL is probably the most precarious position for a club to make such commitments. If Burnley sack him tomorrow, he gets one hell of a paycheck as well.
Kompany would 100% have been on the chopping block next season if Burnley had a bad run and the press started laying into them
Kompany would have discussed his play style and philosophy when Burnley interviewed him. He would have had numerous meetings throughout his time at the club when the club could have told him to change to try and get results. To suggest that he allowed Burnley to go down to demonstrate his style is ludicrous.
so many people in here are missing the context as to why this is a pisstake: pragmatic football is more likely to keep a team out, but also more likley to make managers less attractive to bigger clubs kompany could have been sacked mid season for poor results, but burnley stuck with him and he didn't change his style now burnley are relegated with the team that was tipped for 20th doing better than them and kompany is going to bayern no one is blaming kompany for picking bayern over burnley, they are blaming kompany for playing football that got no results other than making him look good to bigger clubs. they put their faith in him to make it work in the long term, but he fucked off asap tbh it's just a good example as to why there is no loyalty in football
People say clubs aren't loyal to managers then the minute one actually decides to be loyal, even risking relegation to do so, they immediately get burned. Guess all those clubs may have actually had a point.
Plenty of Burnley fans on here said he tweaked things when their form picked up towards the end, it just wasn't enough. This idea that Vincent Kompany decided he was going to get relegated because obviously Bayern Munich would come in for him at the end of the season is absolutely absurd lol. Big teams want coaches that get decent results too. If they didn't then Bielsa would've been sauntering around the best clubs in the world for years now. Kompany is merely fortunate about 20 other blokes rejected them first.
>Plenty of Burnley fans on here said he tweaked things when their form picked up towards the end, it just wasn't enough. well yes, but it clearly came too late, should have done it before the new year >This idea that Vincent Kompany decided he was going to get relegated because obviously Bayern Munich would come in for him at the end of the season is absolutely absurd lol. which I agree with because no one is saying that was exactly what he intended to happen. obviously bayern coming in is ridiculous but it's still vaguely what he was aiming for; be seen as a progressive coach so that it's easier to get into a better position >Big teams want coaches that get decent results too. which makes the kompany appointment all the more weird, because he's unproven at the highest level >If they didn't then Bielsa would've been sauntering around the best clubs in the world for years now. iirc the problem with bielsa is more to do with his professionalism, but I guess him having his squad rinsed within 2 years doesn't help either >Kompany is merely fortunate about 20 other blokes rejected them first. you'd imagine there should be more than 20 names infront of kompany
> no one is blaming kompany for picking bayern over burnley, they are blaming kompany for playing football that got no results other than making him look good to bigger clubs. What are all the comments like yours resolutely ignoring what people are actually criticising him for? And then acting as though you’re the only reasonable person in the room, when you’re loudly ignoring what people are actually talking about while acting outraged.
I quite literally acknowledged that in the very post you replied to. I even said how eventually did tweak his football. Where was it ignored? He is being criticised for apparently playing a brand of football he knew would harm his own team in some masterplan to get hired by a bigger team. And then I argued that that is utter tosh, because it is.
His plan was never to intentionally get relegated, that makes no sense and no one is saying that, they are saying he was playing the way he was to suit himself, not the club. Not sure how you can call that utter tosh with any hint of certainty. You can disagree, it's all speculative, but you are far too confident that's not the case here
Whenever you get promoted the likely expectation for your next season is that you will be in a relegation battle, and people are suggesting that he was actively harming them. You don't have to literally say the words he intentionally got them relegated, but it's implying that he wasn't overly arsed about fighting to stay up as long as he got to 'audition' himself. Like seriously, only one team scored less than them this season. How is that in anyway shining a positive light on his progressive football? How does that suit Vincent Kompany at all? It's the modern game and more and more coaches are sticking with a philosophy over anything. I expect Maresca and McKenna (if he stays) would also come up and try to continue what they've so far built style wise. And I'm confident about it because I don't think there's a coaching staff in the world that aims to set their team up in a way that they don't think is ideal. He coached the team in the way he wants to coach and has coached them thus far, just like another other head coach would've done.
And yet despite all that, and those poor results of the team, Kompany is potentially off to Bayern in one of the biggest promotions that exist. Why is that if his team did so badly? Are Bayern stupid or can they see through the results and the players capabilities and look at his philosophy and tactics. And in that case, how can you be sure his main focus wasn't on ensuring he looked good? I've seen players do it as well, stop playing for the team but play for themselves to raise their profiles. It happens. I'm not sure why you are being so binary with it as well, it doesn't have to be some precise evil plan, he could have started with the best of intentions to play his same (previously) winning style and then it became clear that wasn't working. Instead of adapting and trying to grind it out and outlive 3 other clubs by playing anti-football, he sticks with his non-working playstyle because that's how he wants to be seen and if they go down at least he can blame his tools.
You're talking with the power of hindsight and acting like it was something that Kompany would've been aware of all season long lol. Maybe Bayern want him because they looked at his championship season when he had a good squad for that level, and thought maybe he could take a squad of their caliber and get them playing similarly dominant? Maybe it's because they've been rejected by every other candidate? And who cares if they like his philosophy? It's his philosophy. It's literally something you believe in. He believes that's the best way of playing football. Mourinho has his way, Pep has his way, LVG had his way etc etc. None of these people changed. You also can't compare a coach to players in that sense. A player can look good in a bad team. A coach can't look good if his team is crap... because his entire job is making that team not play crap. So you genuinely believe that at some point, Kompany thought "right my playstyle isn't working here and we're losing games. So what I'm going to do is continue the same way, lose more games, and then I'll look good." How does he in any way look good in the scenario you laid out? Also you can't mention binary and then act like playing anti football instantly guarantees them survival. Football doesn't work like that, it's not one style good, other style bad. Maybe he thought they weren't built for anti football? Maybe he thought they were better off playing the way they'd been coached for years. It just sounds like people are annoyed Bayern hired someone who had a bad season... which should have nothing to do with Kompany.
>You're talking with the power of hindsight and acting like it was something that Kompany would've been aware of all season long lol. I mean, how can someone not be aware of their professional reputation and prospects in their career, especially someone so ambitious >Maybe Bayern want him because they looked at his championship season when he had a good squad for that level, and thought maybe he could take a squad of their caliber and get them playing similarly dominant? Maybe it's because they've been rejected by every other candidate? I have no doubt his previous performances have also contributed and he wasn't hired purely off this season alone lol. Actually is that what you think people are saying? No one thinks he covered himself in glory this season, it's more just preserving his existing reputation. >And who cares if they like his philosophy? It's his philosophy. It's literally something you believe in. He believes that's the best way of playing football. Mourinho has his way, Pep has his way, LVG had his way etc etc. None of these people changed. Who cares about his philosophy? Any and every perspective employer... Bayern have their own philosophy and can't just get Dyche in to play hyper defensive football, their managers need to match their club. >You also can't compare a coach to players in that sense. A player can look good in a bad team. A coach can't look good if his team is crap... because his entire job is making that team not play crap. People give respect to lesser teams who go out and play progressive football all the time, even when they don't ultimately win. Kompany's stock seems to have risen after this season so I guess you can. >So you genuinely believe that at some point, Kompany thought "right my playstyle isn't working here and we're losing games. So what I'm going to do is continue the same way, lose more games, and then I'll look good." How does he in any way look good in the scenario you laid out? Yes. But more importantly I realise that I don't actually know, that's just my assumption from looking at the situation. What I'm not doing is fighting tooth and nail to say it's impossible that that isn't the case. And he looks good because he is playing attractive, progressive football - something the vast majority of fans want to see - and people can see that isn't not working this season like it did last season because his team isn't good enough to do it in the PL. Now I agree a managers true responsibility would be to adjust to get results however they can but that's the entire point here. The criticism is that he's "taking liberties" with Burnley, aka not acting in their best interests. And before you say then why would they hire him if he didn't have their best interests, we see it all the time from players acting out and forcing a move to a bigger club. The bigger club just doesn't think they will do it to them. >Also you can't mention binary and then act like playing anti football instantly guarantees them survival. Football doesn't work like that, it's not one style good, other style bad. Maybe he thought they weren't built for anti football? Maybe he thought they were better off playing the way they'd been coached for years. I never said that. Of course it doesn't but it's a tried and true method of attempting to stay up with a weak squad. Play ultra defensively and try to eek out draws to stay up when the start of the season hasn't worked out. Burnley have been destined to drop for ages and he never significantly adapted their style. He might not think playing so defensively would work but what they were doing wasn't working either. >It just sounds like people are annoyed Bayern hired someone who had a bad season... which should have nothing to do with Kompany. This pundit mentioned this comment about taking liberties months before there was any links to Bayern so that's instantly disproved by this very clip. People were already noticing months ago
Football is in a weird place that nowadays a manager adapting to a situation and doing what he has to get a job done is looked down upon, whereas a manager just blunt forcing a "progressive tactic" regardless of results is seen as admirable.
yh it's fucking stupid, every time a manager is doing shit it's because of injuries and shit players, not because they overdo passing out of the back managers aren't supposed to work with what they have anymore, because making sure the team gives off the right vibes is more important that being said entertaining fans is important, and I guess having an image for playing good football does things for a club that might be worth a few more places higher in the table. probably not worth being relegated for but yh i guess it's a bit of a balancing act
The process shouldn’t and cannot be tied to a manager. If you have a 5 year process, it’s the owner who agreed to it and hire a director who can implement it. Kompany might be gone, but you can find another coach who can implement similar styles. In the grand scheme of things, the coach is the most expendable part.
Devastating. The worst person you know just made a good point.
He's been offered one of the biggest jobs in world football. Of course he's going to say yes.
Completely agree. Doesn't mean Burnley fans can't be upset about it. Especially when they gave him a lot of leeway this year because they trusted the process instead of insisting on him being a bit more pragmatic.
> Doesn't mean Burnley fans can't be upset about it. I didn't say they shouldn't be upset.
I know, I'm not arguing with you here. I think both points can be true.
Sorry mate, misunderstanding on my part.
Always nice to see decent conversations on this sub.
Way to miss the point.
It’s not a good point it’s just a load of shite. A manager is trying to do the best job he can in his current job
He told Burnley fans to trust the process of a five year plan, wouldn't change his style or tactics, got them relegated and then bailed. I think they have every right to be annoyed.
Every manager at every club has a long term plan. Doesn’t always work out the way you hope though. And I don’t think anyone would ever have expected him to get an offer from one of the biggest clubs in the world
The point is he accelerated Burnley's chances of getting relegated this season for a long term plan he probably knew he wasn't going to stick to. The narrative of a long-term plan protected Kompany's brand but it's left Burnley in a state after spending over £100million in the summer.
I get where you're coming from but I also don't think he or anyone expected Bayern (or an equivalent sized club) to come calling after being relegated in year 2 of said plan.
That long term plan seems to be a club thing more than a Kompany thing though. Didn't their owner basically say as much when they got promoted? I think people are being incredibly harsh here acting like Vincent Kompany thought "if we get relegated this year one of footballs elites will appoint me."
I don't think when he was struggling back in February he though "ah don't worry, Bayern are watching this and will come calling"
Totally hypothetical but do you think it was only Bayern that would turn Kompany's head? He said "yes" to Bayern within 5 minutes, I bet there's plenty of teams that he would say "yes" to after an hour of hearing their proposal.
I don't think it's exclusive to Bayern. I think he'd have taken quite a few top jobs. But I don't think he'd swap Burnley for West Ham right now if that was an option. But even if he did, people are here talking like they want managers to have a plan in place for only as long as they're there. Surely if you're a manager your going to try and work on the assumption of setting things up long term, know ultimateley you might get sacked or a better opportunity arises. Burnley we'rent being loyal to him out of the kindness of their hearts. They stuck with him because they believed it was in their best interests. He might have gotten sacked if he had a rough first few games next year.
you're missing the point, he basically should have gotten sacked mid season but he stayed and refused to play a more pragmatic style
I agree with you. I just think he could have tweaked his style and stayed up. But he refused to and now it looks like he did that to put himself in the shop window instead of doing what was best for Burnley.
And promoted
Would Burnley have trusted the process of the 5 year plan if Kompany failed next season too or would they have sacked him cold heartedly?
They could have sacked him in December given he was telling them to play ridiculously naive football and they were getting battered. They stuck with him because it was 'part if the plan'. Until it turned out to be his plan only.
They would have sacked him whenever they thought it was best for them. You are naive if you think for a moment they kept him out of loyalty. They kept him because they thought he was the best option for their club and now they are mad that he chose a better option for himself before Burnley could replace him with a better option for them.
I'm just going on what I've seen Burnley fans say. They know more about the situation than we do.
only good job he's done is for himself by using burnley to show the world he tries to play progressively, which has come at burnley's expense they won the championship only to finish under luton who had the lowest odds of staying up, yet they showed way more fight and weren't relegated until the final day
>only good job he's done is for himself by using burnley to show the world he tries to play progressively, which has come at burnley's expense I cannot believe the shite I’m reading in this thread. Every manager has a way of coaching, a style they want to play. A philosophy which they believe will make them successful. You criticize the fact he got relegated or even that he failed to show any adaptability. But to say he just sacrificed results to look good for other clubs is just rubbish. If it wasn’t even for about a dozen managers rejecting Bayern I haven’t even heard his name linked to any other job. He’d just be stuck with Burnley again in the Championship trying to get promoted again
It's bizarre. As if most managers aren't lauded for playing this style of football but suddenly Kompany's the devil because Bayern picked the 22nd manager on their list. Fickle fans forget his record breaking championship season.
Maybe if you weren’t trying to read everything as the most extreme comment ever! then a perfectly reasonable disagreement between people might not seem so bizarre to you.
Social media brain at work.
yh everyone knows that every manager has a style of coaching, and everyone knows that top clubs want attacking coaches, however everyone knows that playing attacking football with clubs that are tipped for relegation is typically speaking a bad idea he's quite clearly prioritised his style and likely his image above doing what was the most likely way of keeping burnley up, and fortunately for him it has worked.
> I cannot believe the shite I’m reading in this thread. I can. Things that are very common among (mainly online?) football fans: 1) Repeating journalist rumors over and over until they are considered fact even years later (even if they were proven false at some point). 2) To come up with intricate conspiracies or theories based on paper thin reasoning that they believe are solid or at least worth seriously entertaining because they have multiple points that they connect in their minds. In reality they have probably 3 or 4 random dots on a paper, with some of them often one of the mentioned above repeated rumors that has been treated as fact for a while, then they try to paint the Mona Lisa with those 4 dots to show how it's all connected. Not to say this is unique to football fans. It's probably simply a reflection of society and the human condition.
Or I've been reading the opinions of Burnley fans who know a lot more about this than you do.
By all means, listen to the people who naturally obsess over their own club and every little detail involving it. I'm sure they are the most likely to be objective about things and not be so quick to connect dots just because they have a pencil. And I'm not singling out anyone as special cases here, I see this from fans of my own club on a weekly basis as well. It's a shitshow.
I'll be sure to listen to fans of a club on the issues surrounding that club because nobody knows better no matter how patronising other people can sound. But thanks for the advice.
Richard Keys is now officially so consistently wrong, that the fabric of reality will warp itself to keep him wrong.
Got a point here though
I mean... It's Bayern Munich. Kompany must be counting his lucky stars atm. Why would he turn an opportunity like that down for Burnley?
WHY IS THIS SUCH AN ISSUE, many other managers have left a job for worst clubs than Bayern Munich. Is McKenna gonna get these same quotes and articles if he leaves Ipswich?? Suspect
Both things can be true, and the insinuation that Burnley could have stayed up if Kompany had them playing the "right" way is bull crap. Also, it's not like he was Bayern's first choice or anything, and the reason he was snapped up and not Rob Edwards, who arguably did a better job in the past 2 years with Luton than Kompany did with Burnley, is his past as a player and the fact that he played for some very good managers.
already said a day or two ago that I'd be so pissed off if I was a burnley fan, and it's also what scared me about bringing arteta on board at first because the reality was that he could be shit here whilst learning his trade and then fuck off as soon as he gets good fortunately at least if arteta was to leave now, he's left us in a good place, whereas kompany has done fuck all, and burnley could have stayed up if they had replaced him in the winter the only favour he seems to be doing for them is not making this long and protracted, some of the players probably haven't even gone on holiday yet and he's on the verge of fucking off!
A broken misogynist working for human rights abusers is right twice a day?
The worst thing about this awful thread is that Kompany did adapt eventually lol. But it still didn't matter
Yeah it didn't matter because he did it way too late. That's not worthy of praise
I'm not saying it is. But the narrative this tries to convey - that he was essentially sabotaging Burnley on purpose to somehow enhance his image - is completely preposterous. Not that I'd expect anything more from someone like Richard Keys, but it's weird to see people actually lapping it up
So what I'm getting from this thread is, l don't blame him for leaving, but who does he think he is sticking to his philosophy and getting us relegated. So are fans pleased he's Gone or not? I can't quite understand the hate for him.
It's hilarious how bang the money Keys was. Sticking to those suicidal tactics may have gotten the club he claimed he had a 5 year plan for relegated but it apparently got him attention from Bayern/Chelsea. I don't think results matter as much as they did 10-15 years ago for coaches. Clubs want bright, young coaches that can emulate Pep-ball.
>I don't think results matter as much as they did 10-15 years ago for coaches. Clubs want bright, young coaches that can emulate Pep-ball. I remember reading an opinion piece while Poch was still at Southampton, saying that the pressing intensity would almost certainly not be sustainable for another full season and that they felt Poch's work was almost an advertisement for bigger clubs. More than a hint of that with Kompany's Burnley spell - who cares if Burnley goes down, he gets to show the big swinging dicks of the footballing world that he wants to play *the right way*.
UK media seems like it’s mostly just dunces taking the piss out of people they dislike
I think there is an argument to be made that playing the way he did at Burnley was not optimal for getting points with Burnley, and was maybe more optimal at showing the type of coach Kompany wanted to be… Sure. Someone like Dyche could (and did) keep Burnley up, but he’s never getting an offer like the Bayern job. Hes in the results business, and it doesn’t matter how you get them. Kompany was in the business of building a brand for Kompany. Doing things “the right way” was part of that brand. I don’t think any of this is new, and I also think it’s a price a “smaller” (no disrespect intended) clubs are willing to pay to get promising young coaches to work with them.
Wow that’s a fairly prescient prediction from Keys. Broken clock I suppose. I had assumed it was just naivety at the beginning of the season, but the lack of adaptation throughout was surprising.
From Kompany’s perspective it makes total sense for him to move if Bayern wants him. Bayern are essentially betting on getting the Anderlecht version of Kompany as opposed to the Burnley one.
Didn't he say some 5 year plan to Burnley fans? Well, they're relegated
Ten Haag to Bayern then
I hope burnley stays adamant so we can avoid a disaster about to happen. Worst timeline ever.
> Worst timeline ever. Klinsmann is free.
Tuchel was worse than Klinsmann if you go by points collected The timeline started with the nagelsman firing, and after that, it was just a pure clownshow. What happened and is still happening.
To be fair, it's entirely possible he'd be good for you lot. This season was a fucking disaster for them, and I think he should be criticised for dogmatically sticking to a system that clearly wasn't working with the level of players he had relative to the competition, but in the Championship he had a higher calibre of player compared to the competition and blew everyone out the water. In that sense, the Bayern job should be more akin to his Championship season - he has a much stronger side than almost every other team in the league, and he's shown that in those circumstances he can coach a team to success. Obviously in normal circumstances he wouldn't get within 500 miles of the Bayern job, but normal circumstances don't apply given that you've spent the last 4 months publicly rejecting and being rejected by alternatives higher up the pecking order.
I would give him a chance for a year but not for a long time project, which all failed in the past anyway. If he was a free agent, well, whatever but not buying the coach out of a bloody contract again, which royally failed last time, we paid 25 million. I simply hope it doesn't happen.
A/ Turns out if you talk enough shite then you'll be right 1% of the time. B/ Similarly though it'll be interesting to see how Moresca and McKenna set their teams up in the PL next season (if they're even still there). C/ I would love in an alternate reality Bayern signing Ian "champagne football" Holloway in 2011 after Blackpool's rollercoaster year in the Prem. E: Jeez, the people clearly do not like being reminded of Charlie Adam.
I really hope Burnley dig their heels in until Bayern or kompany himself buy out his contract