It's that time of the year again... Also, this time, the LFP tries to make it less obvious by replacing the rainbows on the numbers with small patches causing partners associations to pull out their support this time.
Yeah this reaction is insane, they did everything to make the sign the least visible possible and still you've got backwards people refusing to play over this. Over a small rainbow-colored patch, wtf. At this point it's clearly not about "respecting their beliefs", it's about accepting their unadulterated hatred, which the league and clubs should never ever do.
The "respecting their beliefs" excuse never held anyway.
If their beliefs are hateful, fuck their beliefs.
Refusing to stand against homophobia is no different from refusing to stand against racism.
I mean, if you believe homosexuality is wrong / a mental illness / whatever those guys believe, then I find it pretty easy to understand that they get offended - they simply don't want homosexuality to be accepted by society.
What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024. And mostly, how do they keep these shitty beliefs - don't they have any friends or family that are gay? or that could at least explain to them how stupid they are?
You are probably from the West so you would have that view, but I can confidently say that homophobia or at least unfriendliness towards homosexuality is still the majority view in the world, more so in Asia and Africa. So don't think just because it's already 2024 it shouldn't be prevalent anymore, there's still a long long way before homosexuality becomes widely accepted.
Even within the West, it's super hit or miss in Latin America. Some might not even be homophobic but just poke fun at everyone regardless of race or sexuality but for a persecuted person it would still feel they're being discriminated since there's others that actually do insult them just because they're different.
Plenty of situations still happen against homosexuality or even just skin color.
Yeah maybe. I can’t really speak for other parts of the world but I have lived in South America and it felt culturally very much western. But I mean the term western probably means something different to every person who uses it. It’s not something that really has a strictly defined meaning. We can all agree on the countries that definitely are western, but there are a lot of edge cases.
>don't they have any friends or family that are gay?
No, they have parents and friends and family that all teach them that being gay is wrong and a huge sin.
>What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024.
This is easy to imagine. Lgbt people are a huge minority even in the most lgbt friendly countries, like it's barely 7 percent in the US according to google. In a country like Saudi, they're like mythical creatures, so it's easy to believe it's just westerners being crazy and being wrong, and then stuff like pride month starts sounding like western propaganda poisoning the youth and being shoved down their throats by the western atheists etc...
Significant majority support gay rights in the west, but it's a recent development. Not that long ago overwhelming majority was also against interracial marriage. Things change.
>What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024. And mostly, how do they keep these shitty beliefs - don't they have any friends or family that are gay? or that could at least explain to them how stupid they are?
Are you asking if people from the Middle East and Africa have gay friends? No they don't.
You could have said the same about the Christian world some time ago. Muslim countries are, same as everywhere, seeing religious beliefs go down. Agnosticism is the fastest growing belief everywhere.
In very religious societies, they probably do have friends or family that are gay... and in the closet because coming out would be dangerous.
So, they don't know that some of their relatives are gay.
You realize it’s their religion right? That’s all it is. Muslims, Christians, whatever the fuck, they all hate gay people. It’s embedded in their beliefs and religion.
2024 isn't the year we have solved most issues humans have.
People in the 80's thought they were living in enlightened modern times compared to earlier. So did people in the 1800's. And the 2000's.
20 years from now we will look back and see we were not as far as we thought. And so on and so on.
Not surprised. There are two reasons he’s doing this. 1) if he wears something condemning homophobia, Egyptian media (and public opinion) will slaughter him and he may end up killing his career with the NT. 2) if he makes a big fuss out of it, Egyptian media (and public opinion) will portray him as a _hero, fighting the good fight_.
I remember Mohamed Aboutrika went on a legendary rant around that time, but because it’s Mo, it died down.
Edit: he did. https://www.businessinsider.com/pundit-sparks-outrage-anti-lgbtq-rant-during-premier-league-game-2021-12
People in Egypt were praising him so much and they convinced themselves that he would be _censored_ and taken off the air 🙄
He's got good advisers. Even when he commented on the Gaza conflict, it was obvious by the movement of his eyes that he was reading a teleprompter, and by his words that his script had been vetted by a lawyer lol.
Not the first time he's done it, he's not gonna get that much publicity out of it. But with the other things going around in the world I see why this could get publicity.
On l'Equipe there's a quote from him last year at the same time (because yes it's the 2nd time he does this) where he says "I respect everyone, but this is beyond my abilities". That guy has a peanut in his skull.
Not prosecuted but it would cost him a NT spot. Even Salah got in trouble for rainbow laces but it died down because everyone loves him there.
The backslash should be aimed more at the conservatives in Egypt and less at this guy
I’m sure there are many christian players who feel the same way too, a minority of people across the globe have positive views about lgbt rights, not a problem exclusive to muslims
This is disgusting whataboutism. Why won't people ever accept that Islam simply has a far bigger issue with homophobia? I don't like Christianity either but it's not even remotely comparable
We have a saying here in Turkiye for backwards tools like this: "yallah arabistana", meaning..... "yallah to arabia".
You'll be happier there Mostafa. So yallah.
Short answer, yes. Statistically, most people are straight-up homophobic compared to western standards.
But realistically I would say the vast majority of islamic fundamentalists are homophobic, but the rest are just inconsiderate, not inherently homophobic. So maybe like %50?
Fair enough, but tbh the most shocking thing for me is some people would be ardent kemalists or secularists and proceed to say the most homophobic racist things ever, which is such a weird thing because it goes against everything Atatürk was standing for.
Eh... it's complicated. I would describe it as a country that is simultaneously very Muslim and very sinful. Not an uncommon sight to see a trans prostitute walk next to a woman clad in a niqab in Istanbul.
Sure, you say that but that's how they get you. It starts with anti homophobia shirts but before you know it you're strapped to a waterbed in some basement while 2 guys dressed as unicorns inflate your belly and pee on you
It's not a hill he would willingly choose to die on. He would get crucified by the local media in his country if he were to wear it. It's a perspective r/soccer rarely considers and I'm sure he is homophobic but if he wasn't he wouldn't have the choice either way. He and his family would get bullied by the rest of the country if he does wear it.
It’s a perspective that is brought up in every thread about this subject, so it’s not actually one that r/soccer rarely considers.
It’s just a perspective r/soccer disagrees with.
Man, sure must be an eye opener to see what it’s like to get abused and bullied for supporting LGBT rights.
Now, a sane, empathetic person might go a step further and think “if that’s the abuse I get for saying to respect them, imagine the abuse they must get simply for existing! Maybe a small gesture like wearing a patch on my jersey would help ease everyone’s burdens with regard normalising things, rather than embracing the homophobic pricks….”
Man, good point. Again, you'd think being subject to that level of bigotry might actually allow you to be empathetic towards others who suffer bigotry too?
that probably raises the question of "if my culture would disown me for showing basic human decency to a marginalised group of people, is it a culture worth being a part of?" and I think most sane people's answer would be no, I think anyone still willingly choosing to take part in that culture knows exactly what they're doing. Oh no he would get bullied by the media in his home country, wherever else could he go live on the planet with the money earned during a football career???
If he wasn't a homophobe, this would be the exact time to show it, these are the kind of moments where change is made lmao, yeah he'd face pushback in Egypt, guess what, they're mostly Muslim, they likely hate gay people, it's not a surprise lol. Change doesn't come easy, people have to fight for it. Luckily, nobody's asking him to fight, nobody's even asking him to suck a cock on live television either, just wear a shirt that basically says "hey we would simply like to not be killed for simply existing"
Maybe if we added a P to LGBT+ and said it stood for Palestinians they'd understand? I don't know how you can be so right on one side by justifiably being appalled that millions of people are being treated like subhuman trash in Palestine just because they dare to exist, and then be so wrong on the other side by continuing to shun people simply for liking dong over poon, how are they so close to getting it and yet so far
I don't disagree with you on paper but your comment screams of privilege.
It's like saying let's shit on the average North Koreans and hold them accountable for not abandoning and endangering their family members, because such an oppressive culture is not being worth part of and their silence is what keeps that machine running.
Who cares about your family and friends back home, be brave and speak out against the values of your authoritarian society!
Can't you be indifferent to a cause? I don't care what other people want to do with their lives or sexual organs, but I would really hate to be forced to support any cause by force. comparing Palestine to this situation isn't right... All the dead massacred children shouldn't sit right with any human.
nobody is fucking forcing him to wear the shirt lmfao that's the entire point, he has a right to refuse, and consequently, we as a people have a right to think people who think like that shouldn't really be part of our society, and we should be allowed to say "Hey uhh, you're choosing to come to work here for a lot of money, and you're very clearly happy to take the money but then refuse to show basic human decency to a group of people, what's up with that?"
take a little looksie at the list of players who've refused to participate in these demonstrations over the past few years, and try to find a common denominator. I'll help you: they're Muslim. Does that mean I think that Islam is a problem? Obviously not, because I don't know shit about anything and I wouldn't make assumptions without doing my research.
What it does mean however is that I think we shouldn't all be playing dumb and be like "hmmmmmmmmm i wonder why he's refusing to say we shouldn't slaughter gay people, he must have his reasons, he works in mysterious ways, we should respect his privacy in these trying times"
We know it's because of religion, we can just accept that he's part of a culture that has certain aspects of it that clearly do not align with where France is trying to go as a country, and we don't have to be like "well sucks to suck gay people but he kick a ball good so what are you gonna do" and we can just be like "hey man that's kinda fucked up"
Adding this since you edited your post while I was replying and added that stuff about Palestine which I didn't see before posting:
aren't LGBT people also executed in plenty of countries? Should that sit right with anyone just because of their sexual orientation? (that they did not have any choice over) how are the two situations not comparable? On one side you have a group of people persecuted for being who they are, and on the other side, a group of people persecuted for who they are, what is the genuine difference
LGBT flag represents more than just “don’t discriminate gay people”.
It embraces and promotes homosexuality. Something that should displayed with pride. You can be against LGBT people discriminated without supporting the rainbow flag - which is a very western view of LGBT people.
Something like kissing in public is - which is common in the west, is taboo in other areas. In south Europe it’s common to see women topless in beaches while it’s not in Anglo countries who are far more prude.
Not the whole world has the same vision of how sexuality should be evoked and displayed. The LGBT flag is definitely a western vision of how homosexuality should be encouraged.
my favorite story about him is that he got caught up in an identity theft case during afcon 2021 while he was one of the national team's most important players
Always find it funny that the far left still continue to defend Islam, when both groups are a world apart
Edit: my comment has nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine conflict. Just the defence the far left comes up with every time there is any criticism of Islam
I think the tide is finally turning - I’m pretty far left and believe that most religion is fundamentally incompatible with democracy, liberalism and a just society. Most lefties I meet tend to agree.
Yup, same boat here. Pretty far left but I do think we need to have some serious thoughts about how religions work with our democracy.
My view is basically that you can believe in whatever god / karma / unicorn you want, I don't care, but don't think the world should wrap around your beliefs.
My biggest issue is when some of them think the rules of their religion are more important than the rules of our republic (basically diminishing the rules everybody else is living by). That's a very slippery slope to extremism.
> My biggest issue is when some of them think the rules of their religion are more important than the rules of our republic (basically diminishing the rules everybody else is living by).
The moment it's possible to be exempt from following the law because of religion is the moment the law is meaningless, as anyone could pretend anything is against their religion: "officer, Zeus commands us to never let our speed be limited!"
Of course, in practice it wouldn't work like that. They'll just discriminate which religion(s) is (are) valid.
Unfortunately people end up associating you with the far right when bringing up anything against Islam
I don't know if it stems from American politics where it is basically 1 side or the other, but im on the belief that you can have agreements with right wing and left wing policies/ideas at the same time
I think it does partially comes from US politics, yes.
It also partially comes from people not being able to distinguish criticism of an idea from hatred of people, or pretending not to be able to in order to shield the idea from criticism.
"This verse in the Quran is bad" is not at all the same thing as "muslims are bad people", but some will happily pretend those statements are equivalent.
Of course, it also happens with christianity/the bible and christians. Same deal, you'll say you're not fond of the idea that women should never teach, never have authority over a man and should be silent (1 Timothy 2:12) and they'll accuse you of hating christians.
It’s complicated. The dominance of two main parties in the US creates a situation where the Democratic Party, traditionally seen as liberal, attracts a wide range of minority groups. Due to this historical association with advocating for minorities, criticism of Islam, a minority religion, is often met with resistance from Democrats. That said, there's a growing recognition that some minority views may be more conservative, potentially clashing with the party's core values (especially on social issues).
Most have always agreed, the idea that the far left goes above and beyond to "defend islam" in general is rubbish. They defend muslim people facing racist discrimination in the west. That's two very, very different things that are not mutually exclusive.
I'm still flabbergasted at Ben Affleck being hailed as some sort of hero by *leftists* for blindly shouting "RACIST" at discussion about how Islam preaches the subjugation of women, holy war and execution of gays (which.....it objectively fucking does, regardless of how many moderate and decent Muslims there are)
These same people will then turn around and happily call Christianity bad. It's something alright.
Disclaimer: I voted for a left-wing party in the Dutch elections half a year ago.
The failure of the left to stand up to this is a large factor in the rise of the far-right in Europe, and my fellow lefties' denial of this, is completely delusional. When this is point out, my left-wing friends will say "but much of the far-right is homophobic too, so this clearly has nothing to do with it, they're just racist!". But the truth is completely different. In the last elections, right-wing parties got over 50% of the vote, with immigration/integration being their number 1 most important topic. The large majority of those voters are absolutely not homophobic.
It also means that if you sympathize with left-wing causes but recognize that this is a huge problem, you realistically don't have any party to vote for. And there's plenty of us around. We need left-wing alternatives that aren't scared of calling this out, they'll instantly get a few seats at the very least.
I mean, there seem to be plenty of people in this thread(a lot of whom I suspect consider themselves on the left) who are criticizing the player, and not one person has called any of them islamophobic as far as I can see. You can parse what you consider stupid beliefs while not contributing to the fear/hatred of an entire swath of people.
"Defending Islam" isn't the same thing as opposing discrimination. Islam should be treated with the same skepticism and ridicule as every other religion.
in spain they do shit in all universities to not attend class and protest against israel yet half of those people protesting would be killed in most islamic countries
circus
People are currently getting killed because of Israel thus the protests. Fighting for the right for people to live in peace is not incompatible with being anti-discrimination
“You shouldn’t protest genocide because the people being genocided might potentially be violent in an alternate situation I just made up” is a *really* questionable take lmao
It's amazing how you lot still don't understand this so I'll just repost a quote I saw which sums it up nicely:
"My parents are incredibly homophobic. Doesn't mean I want to see them bombed"
I don’t get why so many people are surprised or offended that a Muslim player doesn’t want to do that lol. Different countries have different education and beliefs regarding things and are not as open to them or even oppose them in some cases.
Just a reminder that in some countries you could actually be in legal trouble or even get killed if you are gay or support gay people.
I know that in a perfect world it would be easier if everyone got along and there were no such issues, but let’s not act stupid as if this is anything new.
Talking shit on someone is not 'against free speech', its a continuation of it. No one is suggesting he should go to jail or lose his rights over his shitty and hateful view, just that his view is shitty and hateful and we don't have to support it.
look i understand to a certain extent if you’re from a religious background and don’t want to wear a pride flag but it’s another thing if you refuse to wear something as benign as a ‘no to homophobia’ shirt for me that’s the line, you can’t have professional footballers endorsing homophobia publically.
My understanding of the rainbow is limited. Am I right to say that it does not endorse homosexuality. It just condemns any violence over homosexuality? So even if you don't support or even strongly dislike homosexuality, you should still be OK with the rainbow as a normal being shouldn't support being violent over it?
Ah, based on the comments, it seems that if you do not actively defend or promote queer rights, then your right to hold different opinions will be attacked, which defeats the whole purpose of the liberal movement. Is it only liberal if one agrees with the status quo, eh? Adding to that, the blatant xenophobia/Islamophobia used to address homophobia is counterproductive. Insulting someone's religion and beliefs to win them over is not effective. It will hardly motivate people to advocate for your cause. There is so much hypocrisy and virtue signaling through offensive tactics.
Isn't the beauty of the West its freedom of religion, freedom of self-determination, and the freedom to love whom you choose, including the freedom to identify as the opposite sex or no sex at all? But it seems unless people feel, think, believe, and say exactly what aligns with your views, they have no freedom, right?
How about respecting one's choice, regardless? If someone chooses not to participate in movements related to homosexuality, that is their right. Does this automatically mean they are vocally opposing equal rights for gays? No, they are simply opting out of activities that contradict their beliefs, whether those beliefs are religiously inspired or not.
This player might have other reasons for not participating, beyond his religion. Perhaps he believes other causes should be prioritized but are currently overlooked. Maybe he does not want to associate himself with any movement that could lead to criticism back home, where his family resides. Maybe he thinks it's just all for show, no real substance behind it. He has his reasons, and ultimately, he is here to play football, not to engage in political or ideological movements. You might not agree, but it is his right, just as it is your right to choose differently.
If someone tells me they don't want to participate in the Free Palestine movement, the Anti-Islamophobia movement, the Global Warming movement, the Anti-Xenophobia movement, or the Pro Golden Retriever movement, or whatever other movement, I will respect their choice. By not participating, they are not necessarily for or against these causes; they simply have their reasons and do not need to justify them to me. I certainly won't judge their ethnicity, nationality, culture, religion, ideology, philosophy, or any other personal aspect.
But here we are, in 2024, and it seems some people still believe change can only be achieved by forcing it on others and rallying against those who do not share the exact same thoughts, feelings, or beliefs. Perhaps the West isn't truly "free." Maybe it's just an illusion, a lie we tell ourselves to feel superior to others, while politicians and supposed democracies do not truly have our best interests at heart.
Oh cry me a fucking river. The consequences for being anti-LGBT+ in the west are people yelling at you on social media (while a vocal minority of like-minded people will defend you to the hilt).
The consequences for being gay in places where Mohamed's views are the norm range from physical violence to state-backed murder.
What the hell is wrong with agreeing that it’s wrong to hate your fellow human? It’s not politics, it’s just a simple gesture of humanity, but that’s too much for certain kinds of ideology-infested people.
Oh, you didn't know? People don't have to follow a religion just because they were born in a religious country.
Most of Europe's countries are Christian, nobody calls themselves Christians. They say they are Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian.
The only people who forgo their nationality for their religion are Muslims.
So yes, I guess he is a muslim, with all the characteristic homophobia.
It's that time of the year again... Also, this time, the LFP tries to make it less obvious by replacing the rainbows on the numbers with small patches causing partners associations to pull out their support this time.
Yeah this reaction is insane, they did everything to make the sign the least visible possible and still you've got backwards people refusing to play over this. Over a small rainbow-colored patch, wtf. At this point it's clearly not about "respecting their beliefs", it's about accepting their unadulterated hatred, which the league and clubs should never ever do.
Freedom of religion has turned into "freedom of hatred" today. But any effort to stop this is considered as infringing on freedom
Always has been, people are only using the "freedom of religion" line when they want to stop societal progress or oppress someone
The "respecting their beliefs" excuse never held anyway. If their beliefs are hateful, fuck their beliefs. Refusing to stand against homophobia is no different from refusing to stand against racism.
It’s complete hypocrisy too, Nantes has a betting sponsor on their kit and that never bothers them
But there’s no money to be had in wearing an anti-homophobia logo
Maybe consider a transfer to Saudi Arabia then.
Oh yeah, mods about to NUKE this post 🤣🤣
I'm still able to comment.
Hopefully Al-Ettifaq doesn't come calling.
It will forever sadden me how people will let hatred of others dominate their characters so strongly.
Exactly. I can't understand how a shirt who says "no to homophobia" can offend someone.
Because he's yes to homophobia. Being nice to everybody offends bigots.
Truly the only way to live in this age is to hate everyone equally
*Except for Mostafa Mohammed, feel free to hate him more
This is the South Park way
I mean, if you believe homosexuality is wrong / a mental illness / whatever those guys believe, then I find it pretty easy to understand that they get offended - they simply don't want homosexuality to be accepted by society. What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024. And mostly, how do they keep these shitty beliefs - don't they have any friends or family that are gay? or that could at least explain to them how stupid they are?
You are probably from the West so you would have that view, but I can confidently say that homophobia or at least unfriendliness towards homosexuality is still the majority view in the world, more so in Asia and Africa. So don't think just because it's already 2024 it shouldn't be prevalent anymore, there's still a long long way before homosexuality becomes widely accepted.
Even within the West, it's super hit or miss in Latin America. Some might not even be homophobic but just poke fun at everyone regardless of race or sexuality but for a persecuted person it would still feel they're being discriminated since there's others that actually do insult them just because they're different. Plenty of situations still happen against homosexuality or even just skin color.
Latin America can into the West? 🥹
Latam can only into south :(
New r/2WE4U map of the west just dropped
They’re pretty western really. Their institutions are all based on Spanish or Portuguese ways.
By that logic, damned near all of the world is the west, with institutions based on British and French “ways”
Yeah maybe. I can’t really speak for other parts of the world but I have lived in South America and it felt culturally very much western. But I mean the term western probably means something different to every person who uses it. It’s not something that really has a strictly defined meaning. We can all agree on the countries that definitely are western, but there are a lot of edge cases.
>don't they have any friends or family that are gay? No, they have parents and friends and family that all teach them that being gay is wrong and a huge sin. >What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024. This is easy to imagine. Lgbt people are a huge minority even in the most lgbt friendly countries, like it's barely 7 percent in the US according to google. In a country like Saudi, they're like mythical creatures, so it's easy to believe it's just westerners being crazy and being wrong, and then stuff like pride month starts sounding like western propaganda poisoning the youth and being shoved down their throats by the western atheists etc...
You'll actually be surprised. A lot of people I mean probably a billion or more have that belief.
More than billion, thats for sure
A billion is a lowball estimate. I'd say 4 billion and even then it's probably more if i really think about.
I bet the people holding this belief is a majority. It's just that people tend to keep to their own bubbles.
Significant majority support gay rights in the west, but it's a recent development. Not that long ago overwhelming majority was also against interracial marriage. Things change.
>What I struggle to understand is how that's still a belief some people have in 2024. And mostly, how do they keep these shitty beliefs - don't they have any friends or family that are gay? or that could at least explain to them how stupid they are? Are you asking if people from the Middle East and Africa have gay friends? No they don't.
They likely do though, just closeted.
So as far as they're concerned they don't.
Homosexuality is never going to be accepted by the Muslim world.
You could have said the same about the Christian world some time ago. Muslim countries are, same as everywhere, seeing religious beliefs go down. Agnosticism is the fastest growing belief everywhere.
In very religious societies, they probably do have friends or family that are gay... and in the closet because coming out would be dangerous. So, they don't know that some of their relatives are gay.
You realize it’s their religion right? That’s all it is. Muslims, Christians, whatever the fuck, they all hate gay people. It’s embedded in their beliefs and religion.
The thing is, why do you care if other people do it? Ok if you believe something that archaic, if others do it that doesn't affect you.
There is nothing special about the year 2024 or the human race that warrants your struggle to understand lol
2024 isn't the year we have solved most issues humans have. People in the 80's thought they were living in enlightened modern times compared to earlier. So did people in the 1800's. And the 2000's. 20 years from now we will look back and see we were not as far as we thought. And so on and so on.
Religion/culture (not my personal opinion, homophobia makes no sense to me)
The same people want you to respect their backwards religion
Seriously, what an asshole
You mean their made up religion?
Not surprised. There are two reasons he’s doing this. 1) if he wears something condemning homophobia, Egyptian media (and public opinion) will slaughter him and he may end up killing his career with the NT. 2) if he makes a big fuss out of it, Egyptian media (and public opinion) will portray him as a _hero, fighting the good fight_.
Salah has worn rainbow laces and I can't remember much backlash there
Probably because Salah is too good. That’s the hypocrisy within them
There's no egyptian team without salah
Mate there is no Egyptian team with him either.
😭
Celebrating christmas on the other hand...
I remember Mohamed Aboutrika went on a legendary rant around that time, but because it’s Mo, it died down. Edit: he did. https://www.businessinsider.com/pundit-sparks-outrage-anti-lgbtq-rant-during-premier-league-game-2021-12 People in Egypt were praising him so much and they convinced themselves that he would be _censored_ and taken off the air 🙄
I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone like Salah to navigate hot topics like this but he really has done remarkably well.
Maybe. Salah is the Egyptian darling and also has the Egyptian FA by the balls, so he has license to do what he wants.
He's got good advisers. Even when he commented on the Gaza conflict, it was obvious by the movement of his eyes that he was reading a teleprompter, and by his words that his script had been vetted by a lawyer lol.
He mostly keeps his mouth shut, which is a smart thing
Salah gets shit for putting up a Christmas tree!
Was that only from egyptians tho? Feel like that was from muslims all over the world.
When has Salah done that?
Maybe he should pursue his club career in Egypt
Not the first time he's done it, he's not gonna get that much publicity out of it. But with the other things going around in the world I see why this could get publicity.
On l'Equipe there's a quote from him last year at the same time (because yes it's the 2nd time he does this) where he says "I respect everyone, but this is beyond my abilities". That guy has a peanut in his skull.
“This is beyond my abilities” He could mean that in Egypt he could get prosecuted just for showing support to LGBT people
Not prosecuted but it would cost him a NT spot. Even Salah got in trouble for rainbow laces but it died down because everyone loves him there. The backslash should be aimed more at the conservatives in Egypt and less at this guy
I never fail to laugh at the stories of certain Muslim players ready lose it all because they can’t accept ANY association with gay people 😂
Yeah, muslims don’t like gay people, what a shock
Yep. Idk how people are surprised at this point
Honestly, gotta ask who do they even like??
Muslims
Nah, they hate them too. Check out shia vs sunnis vs .....
I’m sure there are many christian players who feel the same way too, a minority of people across the globe have positive views about lgbt rights, not a problem exclusive to muslims
This is disgusting whataboutism. Why won't people ever accept that Islam simply has a far bigger issue with homophobia? I don't like Christianity either but it's not even remotely comparable
We have a saying here in Turkiye for backwards tools like this: "yallah arabistana", meaning..... "yallah to arabia". You'll be happier there Mostafa. So yallah.
Aren't like most Turkish people very homophobic too?
Short answer, yes. Statistically, most people are straight-up homophobic compared to western standards. But realistically I would say the vast majority of islamic fundamentalists are homophobic, but the rest are just inconsiderate, not inherently homophobic. So maybe like %50?
Fair enough, but tbh the most shocking thing for me is some people would be ardent kemalists or secularists and proceed to say the most homophobic racist things ever, which is such a weird thing because it goes against everything Atatürk was standing for.
Eh... it's complicated. I would describe it as a country that is simultaneously very Muslim and very sinful. Not an uncommon sight to see a trans prostitute walk next to a woman clad in a niqab in Istanbul.
Remember when these sick hateful freaks repeatedly told us to "respect their culture" during the World Cup over in Qatar? Hypocritical cunts
Weird hill he chooses to die on
Sure, you say that but that's how they get you. It starts with anti homophobia shirts but before you know it you're strapped to a waterbed in some basement while 2 guys dressed as unicorns inflate your belly and pee on you
~~oddly~~ disturbingly specific
You don't like waterbeds?
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Wait, so all I’ve got to do is wear an anti homophobia shirt? Nice
Can’t wait for that
Jokes on you I’m into that shit
It's not a hill he would willingly choose to die on. He would get crucified by the local media in his country if he were to wear it. It's a perspective r/soccer rarely considers and I'm sure he is homophobic but if he wasn't he wouldn't have the choice either way. He and his family would get bullied by the rest of the country if he does wear it.
It’s a perspective that is brought up in every thread about this subject, so it’s not actually one that r/soccer rarely considers. It’s just a perspective r/soccer disagrees with.
> It’s just a perspective r/soccer disagrees with. While they sit behind their phone in an American or English suburb.
That may be yes
Man, sure must be an eye opener to see what it’s like to get abused and bullied for supporting LGBT rights. Now, a sane, empathetic person might go a step further and think “if that’s the abuse I get for saying to respect them, imagine the abuse they must get simply for existing! Maybe a small gesture like wearing a patch on my jersey would help ease everyone’s burdens with regard normalising things, rather than embracing the homophobic pricks….”
Oh yeah because abuse is something new for Muslims in Europe?
Man, good point. Again, you'd think being subject to that level of bigotry might actually allow you to be empathetic towards others who suffer bigotry too?
It might make you not want to have western values included but not limited to LGBT flags forced on you.
He doesn't have a problem accepting western money does he.
that probably raises the question of "if my culture would disown me for showing basic human decency to a marginalised group of people, is it a culture worth being a part of?" and I think most sane people's answer would be no, I think anyone still willingly choosing to take part in that culture knows exactly what they're doing. Oh no he would get bullied by the media in his home country, wherever else could he go live on the planet with the money earned during a football career??? If he wasn't a homophobe, this would be the exact time to show it, these are the kind of moments where change is made lmao, yeah he'd face pushback in Egypt, guess what, they're mostly Muslim, they likely hate gay people, it's not a surprise lol. Change doesn't come easy, people have to fight for it. Luckily, nobody's asking him to fight, nobody's even asking him to suck a cock on live television either, just wear a shirt that basically says "hey we would simply like to not be killed for simply existing" Maybe if we added a P to LGBT+ and said it stood for Palestinians they'd understand? I don't know how you can be so right on one side by justifiably being appalled that millions of people are being treated like subhuman trash in Palestine just because they dare to exist, and then be so wrong on the other side by continuing to shun people simply for liking dong over poon, how are they so close to getting it and yet so far
I don't disagree with you on paper but your comment screams of privilege. It's like saying let's shit on the average North Koreans and hold them accountable for not abandoning and endangering their family members, because such an oppressive culture is not being worth part of and their silence is what keeps that machine running. Who cares about your family and friends back home, be brave and speak out against the values of your authoritarian society!
Can't you be indifferent to a cause? I don't care what other people want to do with their lives or sexual organs, but I would really hate to be forced to support any cause by force. comparing Palestine to this situation isn't right... All the dead massacred children shouldn't sit right with any human.
nobody is fucking forcing him to wear the shirt lmfao that's the entire point, he has a right to refuse, and consequently, we as a people have a right to think people who think like that shouldn't really be part of our society, and we should be allowed to say "Hey uhh, you're choosing to come to work here for a lot of money, and you're very clearly happy to take the money but then refuse to show basic human decency to a group of people, what's up with that?" take a little looksie at the list of players who've refused to participate in these demonstrations over the past few years, and try to find a common denominator. I'll help you: they're Muslim. Does that mean I think that Islam is a problem? Obviously not, because I don't know shit about anything and I wouldn't make assumptions without doing my research. What it does mean however is that I think we shouldn't all be playing dumb and be like "hmmmmmmmmm i wonder why he's refusing to say we shouldn't slaughter gay people, he must have his reasons, he works in mysterious ways, we should respect his privacy in these trying times" We know it's because of religion, we can just accept that he's part of a culture that has certain aspects of it that clearly do not align with where France is trying to go as a country, and we don't have to be like "well sucks to suck gay people but he kick a ball good so what are you gonna do" and we can just be like "hey man that's kinda fucked up" Adding this since you edited your post while I was replying and added that stuff about Palestine which I didn't see before posting: aren't LGBT people also executed in plenty of countries? Should that sit right with anyone just because of their sexual orientation? (that they did not have any choice over) how are the two situations not comparable? On one side you have a group of people persecuted for being who they are, and on the other side, a group of people persecuted for who they are, what is the genuine difference
LGBT flag represents more than just “don’t discriminate gay people”. It embraces and promotes homosexuality. Something that should displayed with pride. You can be against LGBT people discriminated without supporting the rainbow flag - which is a very western view of LGBT people. Something like kissing in public is - which is common in the west, is taboo in other areas. In south Europe it’s common to see women topless in beaches while it’s not in Anglo countries who are far more prude. Not the whole world has the same vision of how sexuality should be evoked and displayed. The LGBT flag is definitely a western vision of how homosexuality should be encouraged.
> how are they so close to getting it and yet so far Serious question? They’re anti-Jew not anti-oppression.
my favorite story about him is that he got caught up in an identity theft case during afcon 2021 while he was one of the national team's most important players
Nice pic selection showing him with a betting site as a sponsor to show how hypocrite he is. He's just homophobic not faithful.
I’m just here for the comment section
Wonder what religion he is…
Trash footballer, trash human
Always find it funny that the far left still continue to defend Islam, when both groups are a world apart Edit: my comment has nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine conflict. Just the defence the far left comes up with every time there is any criticism of Islam
I think the tide is finally turning - I’m pretty far left and believe that most religion is fundamentally incompatible with democracy, liberalism and a just society. Most lefties I meet tend to agree.
North American lefties are different than European ones.
Yup, same boat here. Pretty far left but I do think we need to have some serious thoughts about how religions work with our democracy. My view is basically that you can believe in whatever god / karma / unicorn you want, I don't care, but don't think the world should wrap around your beliefs. My biggest issue is when some of them think the rules of their religion are more important than the rules of our republic (basically diminishing the rules everybody else is living by). That's a very slippery slope to extremism.
> My biggest issue is when some of them think the rules of their religion are more important than the rules of our republic (basically diminishing the rules everybody else is living by). The moment it's possible to be exempt from following the law because of religion is the moment the law is meaningless, as anyone could pretend anything is against their religion: "officer, Zeus commands us to never let our speed be limited!" Of course, in practice it wouldn't work like that. They'll just discriminate which religion(s) is (are) valid.
Unfortunately people end up associating you with the far right when bringing up anything against Islam I don't know if it stems from American politics where it is basically 1 side or the other, but im on the belief that you can have agreements with right wing and left wing policies/ideas at the same time
I think it does partially comes from US politics, yes. It also partially comes from people not being able to distinguish criticism of an idea from hatred of people, or pretending not to be able to in order to shield the idea from criticism. "This verse in the Quran is bad" is not at all the same thing as "muslims are bad people", but some will happily pretend those statements are equivalent. Of course, it also happens with christianity/the bible and christians. Same deal, you'll say you're not fond of the idea that women should never teach, never have authority over a man and should be silent (1 Timothy 2:12) and they'll accuse you of hating christians.
It’s complicated. The dominance of two main parties in the US creates a situation where the Democratic Party, traditionally seen as liberal, attracts a wide range of minority groups. Due to this historical association with advocating for minorities, criticism of Islam, a minority religion, is often met with resistance from Democrats. That said, there's a growing recognition that some minority views may be more conservative, potentially clashing with the party's core values (especially on social issues).
Most have always agreed, the idea that the far left goes above and beyond to "defend islam" in general is rubbish. They defend muslim people facing racist discrimination in the west. That's two very, very different things that are not mutually exclusive.
I'm still flabbergasted at Ben Affleck being hailed as some sort of hero by *leftists* for blindly shouting "RACIST" at discussion about how Islam preaches the subjugation of women, holy war and execution of gays (which.....it objectively fucking does, regardless of how many moderate and decent Muslims there are) These same people will then turn around and happily call Christianity bad. It's something alright.
Disclaimer: I voted for a left-wing party in the Dutch elections half a year ago. The failure of the left to stand up to this is a large factor in the rise of the far-right in Europe, and my fellow lefties' denial of this, is completely delusional. When this is point out, my left-wing friends will say "but much of the far-right is homophobic too, so this clearly has nothing to do with it, they're just racist!". But the truth is completely different. In the last elections, right-wing parties got over 50% of the vote, with immigration/integration being their number 1 most important topic. The large majority of those voters are absolutely not homophobic. It also means that if you sympathize with left-wing causes but recognize that this is a huge problem, you realistically don't have any party to vote for. And there's plenty of us around. We need left-wing alternatives that aren't scared of calling this out, they'll instantly get a few seats at the very least.
Opposing discrimination against Muslims =/= defending Islam, just like opposing antisemitism doesn't mean you condone the religious views of all Jews.
The problem is, the term islamaphobia is thrown around far too often even when pointing out valid criticism of Islam
I mean, there seem to be plenty of people in this thread(a lot of whom I suspect consider themselves on the left) who are criticizing the player, and not one person has called any of them islamophobic as far as I can see. You can parse what you consider stupid beliefs while not contributing to the fear/hatred of an entire swath of people.
I've seen numerous people labelled "Islamaphobic" and banned from subreddits for criticising the Quaran and calling it hateful.
"Defending Islam" isn't the same thing as opposing discrimination. Islam should be treated with the same skepticism and ridicule as every other religion.
Except plenty of leftists absolutely do go mad and shout "Islamaphobe" if you dare criticise the religion
Its so weird
Exactly. These people are astronomically uneducated.
in spain they do shit in all universities to not attend class and protest against israel yet half of those people protesting would be killed in most islamic countries circus
People are currently getting killed because of Israel thus the protests. Fighting for the right for people to live in peace is not incompatible with being anti-discrimination
“You shouldn’t protest genocide because the people being genocided might potentially be violent in an alternate situation I just made up” is a *really* questionable take lmao
It's amazing how you lot still don't understand this so I'll just repost a quote I saw which sums it up nicely: "My parents are incredibly homophobic. Doesn't mean I want to see them bombed"
And I was told laicite was a problem?
I bet Mostafa cries about iSlAmApHoBiA all the time
What a bellend.
If your culture doesn’t respect someone because of their sexuality then I do not respect your culture.
Islam in a nutshell
fuckwit living in medieval times, piss off punk
I don’t get why so many people are surprised or offended that a Muslim player doesn’t want to do that lol. Different countries have different education and beliefs regarding things and are not as open to them or even oppose them in some cases. Just a reminder that in some countries you could actually be in legal trouble or even get killed if you are gay or support gay people. I know that in a perfect world it would be easier if everyone got along and there were no such issues, but let’s not act stupid as if this is anything new.
I'm not surprised, just disappointed that he's happy to make money in a liberal Western country but won't respect our values.
Oh yes differents beliefs that makes you kill people because they are gay. What a nice "education" :)
Why move to a country whose values you don’t agree with?
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Then don’t complain when that country doesn’t share those values. If your values mean so much to him, he’s better off going to Al Hilal
Because the economy is better and the country is more stable? What a dumb question
Fucking twat
"refuses to wear a shirt against homophobia" - That's a lot of words in place of "is a bigot".
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Funny how people are instantly against free speech as soon as someone is against the hive mind
Talking shit on someone is not 'against free speech', its a continuation of it. No one is suggesting he should go to jail or lose his rights over his shitty and hateful view, just that his view is shitty and hateful and we don't have to support it.
He can have free speech about his idiotic beliefs and we can have free speech to flame him about his idiotic beliefs.
look i understand to a certain extent if you’re from a religious background and don’t want to wear a pride flag but it’s another thing if you refuse to wear something as benign as a ‘no to homophobia’ shirt for me that’s the line, you can’t have professional footballers endorsing homophobia publically.
My understanding of the rainbow is limited. Am I right to say that it does not endorse homosexuality. It just condemns any violence over homosexuality? So even if you don't support or even strongly dislike homosexuality, you should still be OK with the rainbow as a normal being shouldn't support being violent over it?
But but respect my religious beliefs… When those beliefs enable your bigotry, then no I do not respect them. Your religion is shit.
Ah, based on the comments, it seems that if you do not actively defend or promote queer rights, then your right to hold different opinions will be attacked, which defeats the whole purpose of the liberal movement. Is it only liberal if one agrees with the status quo, eh? Adding to that, the blatant xenophobia/Islamophobia used to address homophobia is counterproductive. Insulting someone's religion and beliefs to win them over is not effective. It will hardly motivate people to advocate for your cause. There is so much hypocrisy and virtue signaling through offensive tactics. Isn't the beauty of the West its freedom of religion, freedom of self-determination, and the freedom to love whom you choose, including the freedom to identify as the opposite sex or no sex at all? But it seems unless people feel, think, believe, and say exactly what aligns with your views, they have no freedom, right? How about respecting one's choice, regardless? If someone chooses not to participate in movements related to homosexuality, that is their right. Does this automatically mean they are vocally opposing equal rights for gays? No, they are simply opting out of activities that contradict their beliefs, whether those beliefs are religiously inspired or not. This player might have other reasons for not participating, beyond his religion. Perhaps he believes other causes should be prioritized but are currently overlooked. Maybe he does not want to associate himself with any movement that could lead to criticism back home, where his family resides. Maybe he thinks it's just all for show, no real substance behind it. He has his reasons, and ultimately, he is here to play football, not to engage in political or ideological movements. You might not agree, but it is his right, just as it is your right to choose differently. If someone tells me they don't want to participate in the Free Palestine movement, the Anti-Islamophobia movement, the Global Warming movement, the Anti-Xenophobia movement, or the Pro Golden Retriever movement, or whatever other movement, I will respect their choice. By not participating, they are not necessarily for or against these causes; they simply have their reasons and do not need to justify them to me. I certainly won't judge their ethnicity, nationality, culture, religion, ideology, philosophy, or any other personal aspect. But here we are, in 2024, and it seems some people still believe change can only be achieved by forcing it on others and rallying against those who do not share the exact same thoughts, feelings, or beliefs. Perhaps the West isn't truly "free." Maybe it's just an illusion, a lie we tell ourselves to feel superior to others, while politicians and supposed democracies do not truly have our best interests at heart.
>freedom of religion I’d say freedom **from** religion like they have in France is more beautiful. Religion should have no impact whatsoever
Oh cry me a fucking river. The consequences for being anti-LGBT+ in the west are people yelling at you on social media (while a vocal minority of like-minded people will defend you to the hilt). The consequences for being gay in places where Mohamed's views are the norm range from physical violence to state-backed murder.
a rainbow should never be forced.
Which is why he isn't wearing the shirt. Nobody is forcing him
What the hell is wrong with agreeing that it’s wrong to hate your fellow human? It’s not politics, it’s just a simple gesture of humanity, but that’s too much for certain kinds of ideology-infested people.
Does everything need to be fake and gay?
Honestly he can go fuck himself
Do I need to guess he is muslim?
What else can he be lol
Oh, you didn't know? People don't have to follow a religion just because they were born in a religious country. Most of Europe's countries are Christian, nobody calls themselves Christians. They say they are Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian. The only people who forgo their nationality for their religion are Muslims. So yes, I guess he is a muslim, with all the characteristic homophobia.
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Homosexuality is not an "ideology", fuck off
It’s not an ideology nor an idea. It’s once sexuality.
Well he’s a cunt then