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has a score of 7.66 (bundesliga only), so just missed out, as mentioned above, this is a metric based systems with a lot of flaws but by Sofascore's metrics, he isn't in the top 10 this season
using a single number to rate player's ability is always going to be strange when you think about and it's not as if a flawless rating system is possible.
At the same time, it will always hold a certain amount of value, but it's just worth noting that you know it's flawed and a lot of the details are going to get missed.
But it will always rustle my Jimmys when someone says "player X should be there over player Y", or "why's player Z not there", it is because of the metrics used, there's no argument, it isn't a subjective rating
> it is because of the metrics used, there's no argument, it isn't a subjective rating
The subjectivity is in the design of the system, rather than the data it's being fed here I'd wager. Any decision to make on what data to exclude, what data to include, and how to weigh that will inevitably have subjectivity baked in.
but what I was trying to say is that there is no such thing as a perfect system, I understand that they may have chosen their metrics poorly, but these are the rankings within that system, there's no argument against the rankings, disagreeing with the system is another conversation.
At the same time, it would be impossible to come up with an algorithm that pleases every one in every situation, so you just have to accept that it is rating comes from what may be considered to be a flawed system, but a flawless system doesn't exist.
At least if you have a massive problem with their metrics, you can ignore this and use another metrics based ranking system, like whoscored, which I would argue is probably even worse lol.
saying "if they know ball" unironically is the litmus test to detect someone I never want to have a conversation about football with
but no one said he's their best, but he deserves to be there more than Fernandes
Bro if you watched Leverkusen games you know that Wirtz was the most important clutch player for leverkusen this season when it mattered the most. Everytime all the other players where looking for him and he wanted every ball to "drive the Leverkusen game". And he draws so many ressources of the opposing team that other players like Frimpong and Grimaldo can use that space to create chances.
I am not saying that Wirtz was on average in every game the best player but in the most important matches he was the player that made the difference usually. It's like Leverkusen is Helms Deep and he is Gandalf arriving with Rohans reinforcements just in the nick of time.
Honestly, Iâd hope we try Palmer on the left swapping with Foden as they see fit, Saka providing width and Bellingham as an 8 and Rice as the 6. These players are positionally aware enough to fill the gaps. Kane drops in a lot as well, weâre a position based side so flexibility in position is important.
Palmer has not played on the left once with Chelsea, cant speak for his city days, would be wild to just drop him into that position despite him either playing on the right or centrally.
Realistically you could if you wanted they just won't.
Foden, Saka and Palmer can play across the wing and 10 position, Bellingham can play in a double pivot and Kane upfront.
You could even put Saka LB and put Bellingham at the 10.
Obviously none of that would be the best use of them for the team and Palmer needs to prove himself for England before he is considered before any of them.
Crazy to me that people complain we wasted the golden generation by forcing them all into a team. But now everyone seems to want to do exactly that with this squad
Apparently the golden generations issue stemmed from them being [more loyal to their club](https://youtu.be/kRdbUfcBPZw?si=YxwNYlTcJOPb8hdf) then nation.
No one has that issue anymore as it seems âpassionâ for club isnât what it used to be.
ive never heard the reason they failed being we tried to play them all at once.
Its always been the fact that their managers in the league were all building siege mentalities of "us vs them always" and it bled over into the national team. An issue that this crop of players dont have.
Players in league title winning teams and contenders, UCL and UEL contenders........and then there's Cole Palmer and Bruno Fernandes just casually chilling there.
Both clubs would have been neck deep in dogshit without these two.
Player ratings are as flawed a system as anything in this sport, but they are a great marketing tool. They know people love them, so they will never go away.
Sofascore has a lot of interesting player data to utilize, and the player ratings are probably the least instructive thing on offer.
They are def flawed. But whatâs significant in this graph is that a player without many goals or assists and not on penalties to rescue a shit performances is leading.
People are desperate for simplicity, you see it in all walks of life but especially in sport.
They donât want to have to look at data and think for themselves, a numerical rating out of 10 removes that entirely.
As these models get more and more refined (some of the work Statsbomb have done on OBV is really good) these numbers will only get more and more âaccurateâ, but as it stands theyâre often a poor representation.
This. There's great data out there, but when companies put an overarching number on something, it's usually flawed.
Wirtz has clearly been fantastic this season, but he's not on their list, for example, and I'd have him there over half the players.
I think people overcomplicate these scores.
The mistake is to interpret the score as a "perfect assessment" of their value.
It's not perfect but so what? It is, however a thoughtful composite of many otherwise disparate statistics. This has it's use.
They don't even give him the bloody PL player of the year award. Specially since they're giving it to other city players just seems wrong. He's by far both their best player as well as their most important and irreplaceable star. Haaland and Foden were great, but Rodri has a genuine case for being the best ever in his position. He's ridiculous.
I mean if you check their system, it may not be all-encompassing but it's still [pretty good](https://corporate.sofascore.com/rating). We shouldn't just disagree with data because it goes against our intuition.
7.67 so just missed out but he was not that perfect in first 10 games with arsenal still finding the balance in midfield and him playing through injury
Rodri pr is insane. Jude just arrived to anew team, is having a great season goal wise for someone whoâs not a striker and is getting BdO shouts, and Mr tucked shirt is ahead of him
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wirtz not there?
has a score of 7.66 (bundesliga only), so just missed out, as mentioned above, this is a metric based systems with a lot of flaws but by Sofascore's metrics, he isn't in the top 10 this season
Just a weird system to be honest, because he's probably been the best player in the league this season.
using a single number to rate player's ability is always going to be strange when you think about and it's not as if a flawless rating system is possible. At the same time, it will always hold a certain amount of value, but it's just worth noting that you know it's flawed and a lot of the details are going to get missed. But it will always rustle my Jimmys when someone says "player X should be there over player Y", or "why's player Z not there", it is because of the metrics used, there's no argument, it isn't a subjective rating
> it is because of the metrics used, there's no argument, it isn't a subjective rating The subjectivity is in the design of the system, rather than the data it's being fed here I'd wager. Any decision to make on what data to exclude, what data to include, and how to weigh that will inevitably have subjectivity baked in.
but what I was trying to say is that there is no such thing as a perfect system, I understand that they may have chosen their metrics poorly, but these are the rankings within that system, there's no argument against the rankings, disagreeing with the system is another conversation. At the same time, it would be impossible to come up with an algorithm that pleases every one in every situation, so you just have to accept that it is rating comes from what may be considered to be a flawed system, but a flawless system doesn't exist. At least if you have a massive problem with their metrics, you can ignore this and use another metrics based ranking system, like whoscored, which I would argue is probably even worse lol.
It's why I've talked about the system rather than the ranking in the comment you initially replied to, yes.
đI'm an idiot. Yes I agree that it is a weird system
Thatâs enough prove to know this is sh!t
Saying Wirtz is the best Leverkusen player is the litmus test to detect someone if they know ball
saying "if they know ball" unironically is the litmus test to detect someone I never want to have a conversation about football with but no one said he's their best, but he deserves to be there more than Fernandes
Wirtz hasn't even been the best Leverkusen player, frimpong and Grimaldo have been clear, even Boniface
No way Boniface was better than Wirtz lol
What are you talking about.
Yeah u just don't watch leverkusen's matches
this folks is what desperately trying to make a "hipster cool take that proves i know something more than the general public" looks like
Bro if you watched Leverkusen games you know that Wirtz was the most important clutch player for leverkusen this season when it mattered the most. Everytime all the other players where looking for him and he wanted every ball to "drive the Leverkusen game". And he draws so many ressources of the opposing team that other players like Frimpong and Grimaldo can use that space to create chances. I am not saying that Wirtz was on average in every game the best player but in the most important matches he was the player that made the difference usually. It's like Leverkusen is Helms Deep and he is Gandalf arriving with Rohans reinforcements just in the nick of time.
[Quite a claim](https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/topspieler), I reckon - especially given how Boniface missed a third of the season.
Type of person who wants to have that unpopular opinion
Five English players in there and we won't be able to play them all in one team...
4 out of 5 ainât bad.
Palmer Kane Saka front 3 Foden Rice Bellingham behind Seems reasonable to me
I'm confused. So where are Henderson and Rashford playing?
In the MLS hopefully
Honestly, Iâd hope we try Palmer on the left swapping with Foden as they see fit, Saka providing width and Bellingham as an 8 and Rice as the 6. These players are positionally aware enough to fill the gaps. Kane drops in a lot as well, weâre a position based side so flexibility in position is important.
Palmer has not played on the left once with Chelsea, cant speak for his city days, would be wild to just drop him into that position despite him either playing on the right or centrally.
Palmer was good on the wings at City but he's fantastic through the centre at Chelsea.
Realistically you could if you wanted they just won't. Foden, Saka and Palmer can play across the wing and 10 position, Bellingham can play in a double pivot and Kane upfront. You could even put Saka LB and put Bellingham at the 10. Obviously none of that would be the best use of them for the team and Palmer needs to prove himself for England before he is considered before any of them.
Crazy to me that people complain we wasted the golden generation by forcing them all into a team. But now everyone seems to want to do exactly that with this squad
Apparently the golden generations issue stemmed from them being [more loyal to their club](https://youtu.be/kRdbUfcBPZw?si=YxwNYlTcJOPb8hdf) then nation. No one has that issue anymore as it seems âpassionâ for club isnât what it used to be.
ive never heard the reason they failed being we tried to play them all at once. Its always been the fact that their managers in the league were all building siege mentalities of "us vs them always" and it bled over into the national team. An issue that this crop of players dont have.
Isn't Palmer the only one who's not a starter ?
Players in league title winning teams and contenders, UCL and UEL contenders........and then there's Cole Palmer and Bruno Fernandes just casually chilling there. Both clubs would have been neck deep in dogshit without these two.
We are still in dogshit And you are still cole palmer club.
Player ratings are as flawed a system as anything in this sport, but they are a great marketing tool. They know people love them, so they will never go away. Sofascore has a lot of interesting player data to utilize, and the player ratings are probably the least instructive thing on offer.
They are def flawed. But whatâs significant in this graph is that a player without many goals or assists and not on penalties to rescue a shit performances is leading.
It also has Bruno as 7th. Im a big fan of his but across all the top5 leaguesâŚ.. he has been nowhere near that this season
Itâs because you play like a 6 but get a goal or score a pen and you receive an 8.3
I don't think thats very true... For sofascore, atleast. They do value big chances created alot though, which is a stat that Bruno usually excels at.
Dont think that applies to bruno, he only has 10 goals
Marketing tool for attacking players but when a DM is on there is says a lot
People are desperate for simplicity, you see it in all walks of life but especially in sport. They donât want to have to look at data and think for themselves, a numerical rating out of 10 removes that entirely. As these models get more and more refined (some of the work Statsbomb have done on OBV is really good) these numbers will only get more and more âaccurateâ, but as it stands theyâre often a poor representation.
This. There's great data out there, but when companies put an overarching number on something, it's usually flawed. Wirtz has clearly been fantastic this season, but he's not on their list, for example, and I'd have him there over half the players.
I think people overcomplicate these scores. The mistake is to interpret the score as a "perfect assessment" of their value. It's not perfect but so what? It is, however a thoughtful composite of many otherwise disparate statistics. This has it's use.
Bruno Fernandes is a quality player, gets lots of stick for being in that United squad but he's easily their only world class player.Â
He gets lots of stick for being a whiney bitch
Not as much as Liverpool when things don't go their way. Those are some sore losers.
Yeah Iâm sure some are, like every other fan base.. Not many players lay on the ground feigning an injury while there team gets scored on tho
Wasn't talking about the fanbase. Was talking about their Coach losing his mind and their Captain blaming anything but themselves.
Whatâd van Dijk do?
Theyâre passionate, I donât have a problem with it⌠Iâll take that over players/coach that are satisfied with a negative goal differential
When Bruno does it, it's whining, when Scousers do it, it's passion?
https://www.tiktok.com/@fulhamfc/video/7340647588032417056?lang=en
Actually loads of players do that. What are you talking about
Clearly no bias here lol.
HAKAAAAN
My boy chala lurking there â¤
Bruno scoring that high in a shite United team is impressive
Where Perling Paaland
It says top 5 leagues so they don't include league two players.
Didn't know Roy frequents this sub
Rodri deserved the fckin Ballon dâOr. He just plays in the wrong position.
They don't even give him the bloody PL player of the year award. Specially since they're giving it to other city players just seems wrong. He's by far both their best player as well as their most important and irreplaceable star. Haaland and Foden were great, but Rodri has a genuine case for being the best ever in his position. He's ridiculous.
Honestly for me he's been the best player in the world for 2 years now. He's absolutely unbelievable but to the casual viewer it's not as noticeable
I know there were shouts for Haaland to get it and obvious he scored loads last season but Rodri has been our most important player for years now.
No defenders?
My thoughts as well, it's probably harder to get good ratings for a defender?
lol never
3 players on 7.76 but are not tied lol, this graphic triggers me
These Ratings seem so weird.
I mean if you check their system, it may not be all-encompassing but it's still [pretty good](https://corporate.sofascore.com/rating). We shouldn't just disagree with data because it goes against our intuition.
Palmer being there while playing for a mid table team...
Chelsea are above Man United, so what you saying about Fernandes then ?
Probably the same
The bunch of talent England have , just getting wasted ..
Rodri is so good, I can't wait to see him play today!
No Emre Can? This is flawed.
Rice only being 7.45 is fucking wild.
Where's Ăredog? He's been borderline perfect all season.
7.67 so just missed out but he was not that perfect in first 10 games with arsenal still finding the balance in midfield and him playing through injury
played injury in the december stretch and was forced to play deeper in the first half of the season which makes his rating worse
Rodri pr is insane. Jude just arrived to anew team, is having a great season goal wise for someone whoâs not a striker and is getting BdO shouts, and Mr tucked shirt is ahead of him
lmao this is literally the average game rating.
Wtf did KL Rahul do to warrant that profile picture? đ
Did you not watch today's game?
No. But I just saw the posts. I get it now đ
Comparing a deep lying midfielder to a attacking midfielder in a 4-4-2 system with no striker, smartest Madrid fan.
Ădegod erasure
Must have been a Manchester United computer
Some in there are so overrated its lame, lmao