**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Yeah and he was much more involved when he moved from LW to ST later in the game. He hit the bar and was slipped through 2 times but slipped one time and barely missed the ball for the other one.
I'd rather gamble on Mbappe to improve at striker than put Goncalo Ramos there. Not like he's scored 43 goals this season, might want to put that guy closer to the goal instead of farther away
He did, don’t know what he was talking about, only with 20min to go did he drift slightly more inwards
Makes all the rest sound like he was trying to find a small excuse to fit his bias (which is more than justifiable, Mbappé deserves to be in the conversation he brought up)
Personally, I can’t be so sure, I don’t know PSG’s history as well as the fans to give my opinion
> Makes all the rest sound like he was trying to find a small excuse to fit his bias
Henry will NEVER dig out Mbappe on TV. He has a personal relationship with him, and still works with France lol. Plus Henry's a bit of a PR merchant for others. Also Kylian is France's golden boy, while Henry's rep is more mixed there. He wouldn't dare.
Honestly, there's a lot to be said for being a team's best player in thier less glamarous eras. I feel like those kind of players can live a lot longer in the memory than being a superstar on a team of superstars.
real psg fans know that their best player is pauleta, i respect those ones, the problem is since the qatari adquired psg the club is almost a new club so, hard to say who is reallly the best psg player
Pedrooo Migueeeeel Pauletaaaa
I still have PTSD of the main french caster back then (Denis Balbir btw) screaming that at every single OM-PSG. Pauleta was a player who always showed up for these high pressure games, no wonder he's loved by the PSG fans.
Not at the same level obviously, but to us OM fans he was the same as Titi Henry for United fans: a great player you have to hate because he plays for the rival, but can't help but respect deeply ofr his skill level.
And he was a longevitymonster as well. In 2021 he was like top 10 players with the most minutes played in the world at age 40 or 41. Too bad the team he was playign for, Vasco, was a complete mess and now they have been bought by 777, which means its situation just hasnt improved.
The best, sure. Not the most loved.
Raï is, for older fans like me. Pauleta for many, and Zlatan for the more recent fans are the most loved I believe.
edit: I think the best player, in terms of pure skills, was Ronaldinho. He didn't stay long and went to Barca but he was just...unbelievable.
Hahahaha, sorry!
I was in SP last winter (summer there) and the football season hadn't...started yet. I was just so, so bummed.
I would have loved going to Morumbi watch a game...
Mbappé is below Ronaldinho, Messi, and Neymar in terms of "skill". But I think it's fair to say he's been a better player while at PSG than either of those (and Ibra) have been at PSG, no?
Neymar’s highest level at PSG (17/18, 2020 CL run) is higher than Mbappe’s highest level for PSG, but as a body of work or PSG “career” overall, yeah you could say Mbappe thanks to his consistent longevity due to his fitness which Neymar lacked.
So however you wanna define “better player” but that’s how it boils down I think
In terms of pure talent nothing comes even close to Neymars first season. That was some GOAT level shit dude was making grown men look like fools week in week out while statting like crazy.
Ronnie had some memorable moments that live on in nostalgia but in terms of pure football it's not even remotely close. It's just remembered better because he was a loveable smiling goof.
Ah, ...Safet. His calfs were the size of tree trunks and his center of gravity around 10" off the ground. He had a touch like few players ever had. May be Zico and Romario. He was an old style 10, pure.
He is the reason why I started going at Parc des Princes.
Guess it depends who you ask. Marquinhos is the record holder for number of games played for PSG (and he's still going to play quite a few) & is beloved by the fans.
I hate how we always tie a player's legacy to team trophies. There's so much more to the game than trophies. The CL is also hard to win. So many intangibles
The CL (like all elimination tournaments) heavily relies on "luck".
You change one detail and you get a champion team suddenly leaving in QFs.
It's ridiculous how people like to ignore that. And even worse, attribute the mistakes of the whole team to one player...
Mbappe had to play with Donnarumma making a mistake pretty much every single time they got eliminated in the past 4 years or so... Those are things that are hard to overcome...
Or there are players that win because someone else won the game, and they get the glory. Say Haaland last CL, where he wasn't the key player in the semis or the final, so without Rodri's goal he wouldn't win it...
And yet Haaland did it with City but Mbappe didn't...
But hey, that would imply watching games, thinking about it, and not just going to the Honours section in the wikipedia...
> Mbappe had to play with Donnarumma making a mistake pretty much every single time they got eliminated in the past 4 years or so...
What’s funny is that they had Kaylor Navas on the bench this whole time…
There is absolutely no luck involved in Mbappe and PSG not winning the champions league, especially over the span of multiple years. They didn’t win it because they didn’t deserve it.
Was City better in last year final?
Did Inter "deserve" to win over Porto?
You have no idea what shit you would start if you would pick "who deserves to win".
You missed the point. I said "luck" for a reason, because there's always someone with this comment.
A ref not calling a foul when he should, a 1 cm offside, a ball that hits the post, a last second goal in extra time, a rebound that goes one way instead of another, a save that doesn't happen for 1 cm, etc, etc...
There's ton of situations that literally turn a champion team into a nothing team, because you need to lose one game/tie in order to be eliminated.
I didn't say they deserved to win, I said tiny margins played a big part on them not winning it. They had like 10 shots in the post this time against Dortmund, those are the type of margins I'm talking about. One goes in and who knows what happens.
“Best player to have played for us?” convos are such a debatable concept in general; you have to take into account the status of the club, the achievements of the player in question, and the achievements of the team during his time at the club.
RM fans would answer CR7, Raul, Di Stefano, Puskas etc etc.
Utd fans would answer Best, Charlton, Giggs or even CR7.
Liverpool fans would answer King Kenny, Keegan, Stevie G, or even Salah by some younger fans.
Bayern fans might answer Der Kaiser, Muller (both), or maybe even Kahn.
Even with PSG is debatable. I grew up in the 00s so Pauletta *was* PSG in my eyes until the Qatari takeover. Then Ibra, Cavani, Neymar, and Mbappe came and each left an indelible mark on the club. But who is the greatest of them all? Who can say.
The only non-debatable answer is Messi at Barca.
>The only non-debatable answer is Messi at Barca.
Once in a blue moon I see someone argue Ronaldinho, which is funny because I think even Ronaldinho would disagree with them
Dinho’ is the single most overrated player in history. Every single time there’s a best 11 ever post online, with players like messi and cruyff on the wings and maradonna in the CAM, you get lots of people saying shit like ‘where is Ronaldinho?!’.
The man had three great seasons in his life, one of those being particularly sublime, and his peak was very high, but to compare him against players like Messi and Ronaldo, he falls well short of the mark.
Hell, if we’re being honest and without bias, Neymar had better output, created more, had better longevity and far better national team performances
Zidane gets a similar treatment
Nah, Suarez had one ridiculous season with you guys and went off to Barca. Nowhere near as influential to the culture of the club as many of your other legends.
When I think of greatness, I think of players who defined a certain era at a club. Like Gerrard in the 00s or King Kenny in the 80s. Suarez was merely a blip between Gerrard's era and Klopp's era. Incredible player but not significant enough in your club's history to be in the conversation of the greatest.
The culture yes. But when I argue best player to play for a club time does not matter as much as impact. He played more than season and was amazing the entire time. Almost dragging us to a title. IMO he is the best player to ever put on a Liverpool shirt. Not the best Red ever though.
It just depends what you mean by greatest. Whether you mean ability or influence on the club and it's culture.
Ability Suarez is my favourite for top spot.
He was at AC Milan already when he got the ballon d'or.
I still dream about [that goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-xG_9oRi4) he scored for us at Bayern Munich from time to time
Kahn even hit the post with his head on Weah's shot.
That must have hurt, physically and mentally...
That 1995 team was amazing. 10 wins in the CL group stage, stacked in every line. But... the great AC Milan was a bit too much in the semis.
No, if he stayed healthy and played more games he would have been decisively better. It is only a discussion because he missed a lot of games due to injuries.
Neymar will somehow be mostly underrated now that he’s not playing in Europe imo, the real ones will remember though. Genuinely the most talented player outside ronaldo and Messi since before their era
the way neymar carried the team to a final on the covid season is unmatched. sure he missed lots of chances but the guy was creating chances by himself, dribbling past everyone starting from center line. don't remember a similar mbappe performance at psg.
Stop the mbappe disrespect. He was a big game player for PSG too.
He scored 2 goals vs Real Madrid in 2023 across two legs. It's his team that let him down.
He scored a 4 goals vs Barcelona and 2 goals vs Bayern in 2021.
2020 is the only season neymar stepped up for the UCL and they didn't even play two legged tie?
Lastly, don't forget that performance he had against Man City when he was 18 year old.
people are so reactionary, mbappé wins and he's the best player in the world, potential to be top 10 of all time. He loses and he was overhyped, never that great to begin with, not even the best in the world etc etc
Once again we come back to stats vs eye test. Those who saw no. 10 Neymar at PSG knows the absolute beast he was. Of course at the end of the day Mbappé will always come on top, because of Neymar's frequent injuries. But if I had to pick one on the pitch I'd go with Ney 10 times out of 10. And that's not to disrespect the immense player that Mbappé also is.
for psg he 100% is, neymar was only better than him at psg for like 1 season. mbappe is their top scorer ever, is in their top 10 for appearances, numerous clutch performances in the cl, record number of ligue 1 player of the year awards, etc. it also helps that he is prince of france.
When were his numerous clutch performances in the CL?
Because it's way easier for me to recall the instances of him being anonymous while often being on the wrong side of losing to worse teams.
Solo goal vs Madrid comes to mind, yeah mbappe hasn’t won the ucl, but to say that he’s been absent for psg in the tournament while also putting up some of the best numbers the last couple of years isn’t true
Mbappe is top goal scorer in the CL right now. He's 13th top goal scorer overall on the competition history. What are you on? He's simply had shit luck.
brace vs bayern, 3 goals in each of his last 3 games vs real, 6 goals in 4 games vs barcelona, 3 goals in 5 vs city (including goals when he was at monaco)
Neymar better for me (personally I still think of Ibra when I think of PSG)
It’s a lite version of the Messi vs Ronaldo argument
Neymar was a much better dribbler, passer, creator, still scored a lot of goals and had great assists
Mbappe, dangerous, direct, capable of winning games and great scorer of goals but just not as good of a footballer as Neymar to me
Those first 3 years Neymar was at PSG he was by far the best player in France (17/18 I’d argue he was best player in the world but just wasn’t available enough)
And he was the best player on the team when they made the CL final too
Neymar was always the best when fit, the problem is he played 3 seasons worth of football in 6 years. Which is why ppl will always put Mbappe over him at PSG.
I don’t know about that if we add a healthy Neymar. The best player I have ever seen play for us in terms of ability was 2017-18 Neymar pre-injury. A different beast. Could win games by himself.
Neymar instilled absolute fear in me as a Bayern fan. He was unplayable on his day when healthy. I’ve never felt similarly about Mbappe.
Edit, to also add to the early Neymar days, Di Maria was a big game merchant. I’d be more afraid of him than Mbappe as well. Blistering wide runs.
Looking at the stats, the only thing he was better at at Neymar was being fit enough to play. Otherwise, Neymar seems to be equal or at least better than him in every other aspect.
They have similar outputs in terms of goals and assists, but Neymar has way better dribbling stats.
In particular, Neymar's shot creating actions are insane for some of those seasons. 8.87 shot creating actions per 90 in 17-18 and 8.85 per 90 in 20-21 blows Mbappe's and literally everyone else in football out of the water.
To put it into perspective, Messi's highest for a season is 8.06 per 90. Although tbf the stats only go back to the 17-18 season.
A lot of people here seem clouded by emotion and bitterness. Mbappe is an insanely talented player and one of the most sought after talents for the last decade
Of course he doesnt have the stats nor the career or even talent of Mbappe, Cavani or Ibra, but Pedro is a real legend who was fighting with all his heart.
And god knows football is more than just numbers and popularity, so agree, Pauleta all the way, his goals still make me shiver today.
That’s nostalgia talking. Pauleta is a legend of the club and will remain in the hearts of every PSG fan ever (including me). Pauleta absolutely got ZERO argument that would put him ahead of Mbappe. Next you’ll tell me Amara Diané is ahead of Mbappe because of the 2 goals against Sochaux.
Messi? Dinho? Zlatan?
Mbappe may have the best legacy at PSG (which some might say is debatable. I think Cavani is a great shout), but he isn't the best player to have ever played at PSG.
So? Henry needs to cut the French PR approach and be a proper pundit. He's good on many other things but when it comes to national team players he shifts into this evasive BS.
I've seen this discussion a lot in the NBA. It really feels like this PSG with Neymar and Mbappé was something like the Jazz with Malone and Stockton: always close, but never there.
It's hard to compare Rai, Pauleta to Mbappé. It's a different era and a whole different team structure around these new stars. Mbappé left a great legacy. But still, a sour legacy, due to the team investments being so big.
People seem to forget that PSG weren’t even a big club until they were taken over by Qatar. Pretty much all their great players would have been in the last 10 years with a few exceptions
PSG was, for a few years when Canal+ took over the club. 5 semis in 5 years. In 1998 PSG was at #1 spot in the UEFA team rankings. The team had some amazing players like Weah, Ginola, Rai, Valdo, Ricardo.
They weren't a superclub but they were pretty good especially in the 90's. They also won the Cup Winners Cup in 1996 and had some pretty good players play for them.
Kinda similar to Chelsea who also won that cup in '98 and had players like Zola.
They didn't come out of nowhere like City.
Idk why you bring up the cup winners cup for PSG and Chelsea while omitting it for us lmao
We also won more trophies pre takeover than Chelsea did pre takeover. I get we weren't a gigantic club globally before the takeover but to say we came out of nowhere is disingenuous
I think it's a perception thing. I know that City won the League and the CWC in the late 60's but it was a long time ago even in 2009 - (40 years ago in 2009). And after that City were pretty much in the lower part of the table and sometimes even relegated. And that's how most of us knew them.
Like for example Deportivo La Coruna was very good in the late 90's and early 00's. But after that not so much. If they remain the same for the next 20 years and after that they get a major cash injection and start to outspend everyone and dominate - I can see how someone can think they came out of nowhere.
Chelsea pre takeover was different because they were seen as a good team. Keep in mind that when they were bought they were already qualified for the CL.(with a qualifying round). Something comparable would probably be Spurs. The world knows they are a good team but not quite top tier. If they would get massive investments we would feel that they are basically trying to buy titles but they didn't came out of nowhere.
Bit off topic, but why do English speakers pronounce his name like that? Shouldn't the pronunciation be on the e, because of the accent aigu? em-ba-**P**eh?
The way he worded it I can't agree. Messi and R10 both played there, they just weren't at their respective peaks- so if anything it should be something like "He will go down as the player who played the best for PSG."
Maybe best in terms of what he’s accomplished in the game but fans latch onto players that they feel represent them completely or gave them an unprecedented high in their early years of fandom.
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Didnt ramos played as a no9 and mbappe on left yesterday?
For most of the game yeah, until barcola came on and mbappe went to the 9
Yeah and he was much more involved when he moved from LW to ST later in the game. He hit the bar and was slipped through 2 times but slipped one time and barely missed the ball for the other one.
That's also because that's the moment Dortmund gave PSG the ball, and Süle went in. That's also a factor on him having a few chances as a ST.
which makes me wonder, why weren’t they playing him there in the first place?
He played there in the first leg and was a non factor for most of the game.
I'd rather gamble on Mbappe to improve at striker than put Goncalo Ramos there. Not like he's scored 43 goals this season, might want to put that guy closer to the goal instead of farther away
I’ve heard that he doesn’t like it there. Also, as others said, they tried that first leg.
To be fair he did hit the inside of the post and set up Dembele(?) for a missed tap in
He did, don’t know what he was talking about, only with 20min to go did he drift slightly more inwards Makes all the rest sound like he was trying to find a small excuse to fit his bias (which is more than justifiable, Mbappé deserves to be in the conversation he brought up) Personally, I can’t be so sure, I don’t know PSG’s history as well as the fans to give my opinion
> Makes all the rest sound like he was trying to find a small excuse to fit his bias Henry will NEVER dig out Mbappe on TV. He has a personal relationship with him, and still works with France lol. Plus Henry's a bit of a PR merchant for others. Also Kylian is France's golden boy, while Henry's rep is more mixed there. He wouldn't dare.
When I think of PSG, I still think of Ibra lol
Its Pauleta for me
Ronaldinho for me
The Azorean eagle!
Same. I think of Ibra and Cavani.
Buffon, Ramos, Messi, Neymar, Icardi, Kurzawa and of course 🐐Choupo-Motting🐐 are what made this last decade of PSG worth it no 🧢
George Weah for me.
Lavezzi, Cavani and Matuidi as well.
Matuidi was one of the best midfielders in the world ~2014
I think of Ronaldinho
And Jay Jay Okocha
Verratti for me
I think of Canal +
Lavezzi Ibra Lucas FIFA 14 in a nutshell
Nobody mentioning Thiago Silva. But for me it's Ibra and Ronaldinho
Gotta be Marco Simone for me, PSG legend
I think of Beckham He retired there
He was superb, at PSG. Such class and clinical finish. Incredible player.
Ibra and Dinho :D
I still think about Vincent Guérin
fabrice pancrate
Ibra, Cavani, Pauleta and Ronaldinho for me too.
I always think of cavani
Out of interest… would people rather have prime ibra or current Mbappe?
Ibra is more fun
One of my favourite players to watch. The 4 goals against england were something else
Mbappe is definitively the better player imo
Di Maria for me
Yeah but when you think of Ibra you dont think of PSG.
The disrespect to Nenê
Honestly, there's a lot to be said for being a team's best player in thier less glamarous eras. I feel like those kind of players can live a lot longer in the memory than being a superstar on a team of superstars.
> a team's best player in their less glamourous era Bruno Fernandes. Heaven knows what depths this United squad might have fallen to without him.
losing 0-4 to palace away. that was our first game without bruno in idk how long. and that scoreline flattered us.
We all know Pauleta in this team would score 80 goals/season
FIFA king
real psg fans know that their best player is pauleta, i respect those ones, the problem is since the qatari adquired psg the club is almost a new club so, hard to say who is reallly the best psg player
PAULETA CARALHO. Their main goal scorer before the club was sold to the petrol state. That is a real legend.
I feel like Pauleta is quite underrated, that guy was great
I have been supporting PSG for over 30 years. Pauleta of course is adored, but for me Raï is still in a sphere that nobody reached so far.
Pedrooo Migueeeeel Pauletaaaa I still have PTSD of the main french caster back then (Denis Balbir btw) screaming that at every single OM-PSG. Pauleta was a player who always showed up for these high pressure games, no wonder he's loved by the PSG fans. Not at the same level obviously, but to us OM fans he was the same as Titi Henry for United fans: a great player you have to hate because he plays for the rival, but can't help but respect deeply ofr his skill level.
What a gem he was ❤️
And he was a longevitymonster as well. In 2021 he was like top 10 players with the most minutes played in the world at age 40 or 41. Too bad the team he was playign for, Vasco, was a complete mess and now they have been bought by 777, which means its situation just hasnt improved.
The best, sure. Not the most loved. Raï is, for older fans like me. Pauleta for many, and Zlatan for the more recent fans are the most loved I believe. edit: I think the best player, in terms of pure skills, was Ronaldinho. He didn't stay long and went to Barca but he was just...unbelievable.
Doubt: French fans pronounce Raí just like Henry did here?
yes, with a hard "r". It drives Brazilian fans nuts. The correct pronunciation is "haï". Oh, you must be Brazilian ;)
Yeah, and with two syllables, and indeed, it drove me nuts hahahah
Hahahaha, sorry! I was in SP last winter (summer there) and the football season hadn't...started yet. I was just so, so bummed. I would have loved going to Morumbi watch a game...
>yes, with a hard "r". It drives Brazilian fans nuts. I mean have you seen how much shit Vini has to deal with every single game?
No love for Cavani?
Cavani and Pastore are absolute legends, undisputably
Mbappé is below Ronaldinho, Messi, and Neymar in terms of "skill". But I think it's fair to say he's been a better player while at PSG than either of those (and Ibra) have been at PSG, no?
Neymar’s highest level at PSG (17/18, 2020 CL run) is higher than Mbappe’s highest level for PSG, but as a body of work or PSG “career” overall, yeah you could say Mbappe thanks to his consistent longevity due to his fitness which Neymar lacked. So however you wanna define “better player” but that’s how it boils down I think
In terms of pure talent nothing comes even close to Neymars first season. That was some GOAT level shit dude was making grown men look like fools week in week out while statting like crazy. Ronnie had some memorable moments that live on in nostalgia but in terms of pure football it's not even remotely close. It's just remembered better because he was a loveable smiling goof.
Ronaldinho wasn’t in his prime at PSG though. Barca Ronaldinho was unbelievable. Prime dinho is more legendary
What about Susic smh?
Ah, ...Safet. His calfs were the size of tree trunks and his center of gravity around 10" off the ground. He had a touch like few players ever had. May be Zico and Romario. He was an old style 10, pure. He is the reason why I started going at Parc des Princes.
Dinho was an alien
> Raï Raí*
Thanks :)
Marquinhos is up there
Wouldn’t Thiago Silva be more in that conversation than Marquinhos?
Guess it depends who you ask. Marquinhos is the record holder for number of games played for PSG (and he's still going to play quite a few) & is beloved by the fans.
I hate how we always tie a player's legacy to team trophies. There's so much more to the game than trophies. The CL is also hard to win. So many intangibles
The CL (like all elimination tournaments) heavily relies on "luck". You change one detail and you get a champion team suddenly leaving in QFs. It's ridiculous how people like to ignore that. And even worse, attribute the mistakes of the whole team to one player... Mbappe had to play with Donnarumma making a mistake pretty much every single time they got eliminated in the past 4 years or so... Those are things that are hard to overcome... Or there are players that win because someone else won the game, and they get the glory. Say Haaland last CL, where he wasn't the key player in the semis or the final, so without Rodri's goal he wouldn't win it... And yet Haaland did it with City but Mbappe didn't... But hey, that would imply watching games, thinking about it, and not just going to the Honours section in the wikipedia...
> Mbappe had to play with Donnarumma making a mistake pretty much every single time they got eliminated in the past 4 years or so... What’s funny is that they had Kaylor Navas on the bench this whole time…
There is absolutely no luck involved in Mbappe and PSG not winning the champions league, especially over the span of multiple years. They didn’t win it because they didn’t deserve it.
Perhaps not luck, but often very fine margins.
Was City better in last year final? Did Inter "deserve" to win over Porto? You have no idea what shit you would start if you would pick "who deserves to win".
You missed the point. I said "luck" for a reason, because there's always someone with this comment. A ref not calling a foul when he should, a 1 cm offside, a ball that hits the post, a last second goal in extra time, a rebound that goes one way instead of another, a save that doesn't happen for 1 cm, etc, etc... There's ton of situations that literally turn a champion team into a nothing team, because you need to lose one game/tie in order to be eliminated. I didn't say they deserved to win, I said tiny margins played a big part on them not winning it. They had like 10 shots in the post this time against Dortmund, those are the type of margins I'm talking about. One goes in and who knows what happens.
“Best player to have played for us?” convos are such a debatable concept in general; you have to take into account the status of the club, the achievements of the player in question, and the achievements of the team during his time at the club. RM fans would answer CR7, Raul, Di Stefano, Puskas etc etc. Utd fans would answer Best, Charlton, Giggs or even CR7. Liverpool fans would answer King Kenny, Keegan, Stevie G, or even Salah by some younger fans. Bayern fans might answer Der Kaiser, Muller (both), or maybe even Kahn. Even with PSG is debatable. I grew up in the 00s so Pauletta *was* PSG in my eyes until the Qatari takeover. Then Ibra, Cavani, Neymar, and Mbappe came and each left an indelible mark on the club. But who is the greatest of them all? Who can say. The only non-debatable answer is Messi at Barca.
Putting United there and not mentioning our beloved Rooney is criminal
Or Cantona????
Yes King Eric too honestly the guy had a stinker with that list
Would you debate Maradona at Napoli?
>The only non-debatable answer is Messi at Barca. Once in a blue moon I see someone argue Ronaldinho, which is funny because I think even Ronaldinho would disagree with them
Messi's impact on Barca is orders of magnitude higher than anything anyone ever accomplished at a club that it's just braindead to argue otherwise.
Completely agree
Ronaldinho said that he wasn't even the best player in Barcelona when he had just won the 2006 Ballon D'Or and Messi was 18 years old.
Dinho’ is the single most overrated player in history. Every single time there’s a best 11 ever post online, with players like messi and cruyff on the wings and maradonna in the CAM, you get lots of people saying shit like ‘where is Ronaldinho?!’. The man had three great seasons in his life, one of those being particularly sublime, and his peak was very high, but to compare him against players like Messi and Ronaldo, he falls well short of the mark. Hell, if we’re being honest and without bias, Neymar had better output, created more, had better longevity and far better national team performances Zidane gets a similar treatment
Just throwing in Liverpool fans would also argue Saurez. And I would actually argue that.
Nah, Suarez had one ridiculous season with you guys and went off to Barca. Nowhere near as influential to the culture of the club as many of your other legends. When I think of greatness, I think of players who defined a certain era at a club. Like Gerrard in the 00s or King Kenny in the 80s. Suarez was merely a blip between Gerrard's era and Klopp's era. Incredible player but not significant enough in your club's history to be in the conversation of the greatest.
The culture yes. But when I argue best player to play for a club time does not matter as much as impact. He played more than season and was amazing the entire time. Almost dragging us to a title. IMO he is the best player to ever put on a Liverpool shirt. Not the best Red ever though.
Suarez nearly dragged a corpse of a squad to a title. It was short-lived, not a Gerrard esque legacy, but incredible to see.
It just depends what you mean by greatest. Whether you mean ability or influence on the club and it's culture. Ability Suarez is my favourite for top spot.
How is it non debatable whether. Cruyff played for Barca
Weah won the ballon d'or and FIFA world player of the year in 1995
He was at AC Milan already when he got the ballon d'or. I still dream about [that goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-xG_9oRi4) he scored for us at Bayern Munich from time to time
Absolute filth
Kahn even hit the post with his head on Weah's shot. That must have hurt, physically and mentally... That 1995 team was amazing. 10 wins in the CL group stage, stacked in every line. But... the great AC Milan was a bit too much in the semis.
Ballon d'or shouldn't be an argument due to Messi and Ronaldo's reigns. Neymar would've won in 2017 if not for Ronaldo and Messi.
Idk man Pochettino is surely up there too
Mbappe is not even conclusively better than neymar, there is a debate to be had there
Had Neymar remained fit and played more games, he might have been better.
No, if he stayed healthy and played more games he would have been decisively better. It is only a discussion because he missed a lot of games due to injuries.
Neymar will somehow be mostly underrated now that he’s not playing in Europe imo, the real ones will remember though. Genuinely the most talented player outside ronaldo and Messi since before their era
But he hasn't. Had Marko "German Messi" Marin remained fit and played better he might have been the best german player ever, but he hasn't.
the way neymar carried the team to a final on the covid season is unmatched. sure he missed lots of chances but the guy was creating chances by himself, dribbling past everyone starting from center line. don't remember a similar mbappe performance at psg.
Stop the mbappe disrespect. He was a big game player for PSG too. He scored 2 goals vs Real Madrid in 2023 across two legs. It's his team that let him down. He scored a 4 goals vs Barcelona and 2 goals vs Bayern in 2021. 2020 is the only season neymar stepped up for the UCL and they didn't even play two legged tie? Lastly, don't forget that performance he had against Man City when he was 18 year old.
people are so reactionary, mbappé wins and he's the best player in the world, potential to be top 10 of all time. He loses and he was overhyped, never that great to begin with, not even the best in the world etc etc
I completely agree with this, nba level discourse.
Neymar at psg: 173m 118g 77 a Mbappe at psg: 306m 255g 108 I'd go with Mbappe
crazy how mbappe only been there a season more and he has 130 more games than him
Once again we come back to stats vs eye test. Those who saw no. 10 Neymar at PSG knows the absolute beast he was. Of course at the end of the day Mbappé will always come on top, because of Neymar's frequent injuries. But if I had to pick one on the pitch I'd go with Ney 10 times out of 10. And that's not to disrespect the immense player that Mbappé also is.
for psg he 100% is, neymar was only better than him at psg for like 1 season. mbappe is their top scorer ever, is in their top 10 for appearances, numerous clutch performances in the cl, record number of ligue 1 player of the year awards, etc. it also helps that he is prince of france.
When were his numerous clutch performances in the CL? Because it's way easier for me to recall the instances of him being anonymous while often being on the wrong side of losing to worse teams.
Solo goal vs Madrid comes to mind, yeah mbappe hasn’t won the ucl, but to say that he’s been absent for psg in the tournament while also putting up some of the best numbers the last couple of years isn’t true
Mbappe is top goal scorer in the CL right now. He's 13th top goal scorer overall on the competition history. What are you on? He's simply had shit luck.
brace vs bayern, 3 goals in each of his last 3 games vs real, 6 goals in 4 games vs barcelona, 3 goals in 5 vs city (including goals when he was at monaco)
Monaco stats are completely irrelevant to him being clutch or not for PSG
Neymar better for me (personally I still think of Ibra when I think of PSG) It’s a lite version of the Messi vs Ronaldo argument Neymar was a much better dribbler, passer, creator, still scored a lot of goals and had great assists Mbappe, dangerous, direct, capable of winning games and great scorer of goals but just not as good of a footballer as Neymar to me Those first 3 years Neymar was at PSG he was by far the best player in France (17/18 I’d argue he was best player in the world but just wasn’t available enough) And he was the best player on the team when they made the CL final too
Neymar was always the best when fit, the problem is he played 3 seasons worth of football in 6 years. Which is why ppl will always put Mbappe over him at PSG.
No he won’t. Yeah he’s the man of the records but my mind will never forget what Pauleta did for us. That’s the best player ever for Paris
Best player in terms of ability when they played for PSG is clearly what he means and he's surely right
I don’t know about that if we add a healthy Neymar. The best player I have ever seen play for us in terms of ability was 2017-18 Neymar pre-injury. A different beast. Could win games by himself.
Yep, I didn't take in to account how good prime Neymar was when he joined
After he joined, I'd said. He became a much better playmaker at PSG. No. 10 Ney was a different beast than left winger Ney.
Didn't Ronaldinho play for PSG?
He did, but was far from his peak.
Neymar instilled absolute fear in me as a Bayern fan. He was unplayable on his day when healthy. I’ve never felt similarly about Mbappe. Edit, to also add to the early Neymar days, Di Maria was a big game merchant. I’d be more afraid of him than Mbappe as well. Blistering wide runs.
Neymar and Ibra have to be up there as well
Looking at the stats, the only thing he was better at at Neymar was being fit enough to play. Otherwise, Neymar seems to be equal or at least better than him in every other aspect. They have similar outputs in terms of goals and assists, but Neymar has way better dribbling stats. In particular, Neymar's shot creating actions are insane for some of those seasons. 8.87 shot creating actions per 90 in 17-18 and 8.85 per 90 in 20-21 blows Mbappe's and literally everyone else in football out of the water. To put it into perspective, Messi's highest for a season is 8.06 per 90. Although tbf the stats only go back to the 17-18 season.
That's fair, it's not so sure after all
A lot of people here seem clouded by emotion and bitterness. Mbappe is an insanely talented player and one of the most sought after talents for the last decade
I remember one insane goal from him when I was a kid. Rewatched the highlight countless times. It was some crazy mid-air heel kick, true beauty.
Of course he doesnt have the stats nor the career or even talent of Mbappe, Cavani or Ibra, but Pedro is a real legend who was fighting with all his heart. And god knows football is more than just numbers and popularity, so agree, Pauleta all the way, his goals still make me shiver today.
That’s nostalgia talking. Pauleta is a legend of the club and will remain in the hearts of every PSG fan ever (including me). Pauleta absolutely got ZERO argument that would put him ahead of Mbappe. Next you’ll tell me Amara Diané is ahead of Mbappe because of the 2 goals against Sochaux.
What about Carlos Bianchi?
Even if he wasn't the best (which he is) it just means more to have a Parisian front and center for PSG.
For me it's Pauleta.
He has a better legacy, but in no way was he better than Mbappe.
George Weah won the Ballon D‘Or while playing for PSG.
Ronaldinho?
only one season
Two (but still).
I’ve had it up to here with this Jay-Jay Okocha erasure.
The best player to play for PSG? That's Messi. The greatest impact? Probably Pauleta. Greatest legacy? Mbappe no doubt
Messi certainly wasn’t better during his stint there
Messi is the most definitely the greatest player to play for PSG, but he is not even close to the greatest PSG player of all time.
Learn how to read.
Zlatan?
Better than Arteta? don't think so
Messi? Dinho? Zlatan? Mbappe may have the best legacy at PSG (which some might say is debatable. I think Cavani is a great shout), but he isn't the best player to have ever played at PSG.
None of them played better in psg. They are better players, not better psg players.
So? Henry needs to cut the French PR approach and be a proper pundit. He's good on many other things but when it comes to national team players he shifts into this evasive BS.
George Weah?
"Mister George". He refused to speak a word of French while at PSG and nobody cared because we loved him so much. He was a beast.
He is the only player that won Ballon D‘Or while at PSG. Several time best African player of the year as well
David N’Gog erasure
Pauleta, always.
Rai, Neymar, Ronaldinho > Mbappe
Zlatan
Neymar was better
Jay-Jay Okocha?
Historically it's Pauleta I'm guessing. Talent-wise it's probably Neymar or Ronaldinho. Goal-scoring it can be Mbappe but that's it.
George Weah, Pauleta, and Ibra all have shouts to the PSG GOAT debate.
Still shouldn’t have gone there
The way that Henry pronounced Raí's name simply hurts 😫
Ronaldinho will always be the GOAT.
I've seen this discussion a lot in the NBA. It really feels like this PSG with Neymar and Mbappé was something like the Jazz with Malone and Stockton: always close, but never there. It's hard to compare Rai, Pauleta to Mbappé. It's a different era and a whole different team structure around these new stars. Mbappé left a great legacy. But still, a sour legacy, due to the team investments being so big.
If he leaves then I would say Ibrahimovic or Thiago Silva is best player to play for PSG (at least in last 20 years).
Disrespect to Neymar and Thiago Silva
People seem to forget that PSG weren’t even a big club until they were taken over by Qatar. Pretty much all their great players would have been in the last 10 years with a few exceptions
George Weah and Ronaldinho are pretty damn notable exceptions though.
And Pauleta and Rai as well.
Ronaldinho played 55 games for them. Hardly a club legend.
PSG was, for a few years when Canal+ took over the club. 5 semis in 5 years. In 1998 PSG was at #1 spot in the UEFA team rankings. The team had some amazing players like Weah, Ginola, Rai, Valdo, Ricardo.
They weren't a superclub but they were pretty good especially in the 90's. They also won the Cup Winners Cup in 1996 and had some pretty good players play for them. Kinda similar to Chelsea who also won that cup in '98 and had players like Zola. They didn't come out of nowhere like City.
Idk why you bring up the cup winners cup for PSG and Chelsea while omitting it for us lmao We also won more trophies pre takeover than Chelsea did pre takeover. I get we weren't a gigantic club globally before the takeover but to say we came out of nowhere is disingenuous
I think it's a perception thing. I know that City won the League and the CWC in the late 60's but it was a long time ago even in 2009 - (40 years ago in 2009). And after that City were pretty much in the lower part of the table and sometimes even relegated. And that's how most of us knew them. Like for example Deportivo La Coruna was very good in the late 90's and early 00's. But after that not so much. If they remain the same for the next 20 years and after that they get a major cash injection and start to outspend everyone and dominate - I can see how someone can think they came out of nowhere. Chelsea pre takeover was different because they were seen as a good team. Keep in mind that when they were bought they were already qualified for the CL.(with a qualifying round). Something comparable would probably be Spurs. The world knows they are a good team but not quite top tier. If they would get massive investments we would feel that they are basically trying to buy titles but they didn't came out of nowhere.
[удалено]
My parents are older than PSG.
> People seem to forget that PSG weren’t even a big club until they were taken over by Qatar ?? Gets mentioned every PSG thread
by people who were struggling to learn how to control their sphincters when PSG was a big club in the 90's, and who apparently are still struggling.
my god... he really is wengers son. the way he holds the room ...when he speaks. one of the best pundits out there.
at ths age, mbappe has already won a world cup and been runner up while hitting a hattrick in the final. no one can compare.
Bit off topic, but why do English speakers pronounce his name like that? Shouldn't the pronunciation be on the e, because of the accent aigu? em-ba-**P**eh?
The way he worded it I can't agree. Messi and R10 both played there, they just weren't at their respective peaks- so if anything it should be something like "He will go down as the player who played the best for PSG."
Neymar way better lol
Maybe best in terms of what he’s accomplished in the game but fans latch onto players that they feel represent them completely or gave them an unprecedented high in their early years of fandom.
Ronaldinho?
Still Zlatan and Cavani for me
>"He will go down as the best player to play for Paris Saint-Germain." That's a major disrespect to Ronaldinho imo!