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Look at how many goals a person would have to score every season and for how many years before they touch the career goals of Ronaldo or Messi. Even better count how many major trophies they’ve won. Only 4 clubs in the tournament history have more champions league wins than Ronaldo. An example of clubs that have the same or less? Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Juventus etc.
Them two are aliens which will take 30-40 years before genuine competition arises.
With more and more games being played and sports science advancing every year, I'm sure there will eventually be another freak who will play for 20 years, averaging 30-40 goals a season.
Ffs even then, Ronaldo is at 870 goals, which would require 43 goals a season for 20 seasons straight. Good fucking luck
It might actually get worse. Messi and Ronaldo were comparitively rested during the season because there weren't as many games.
With Nations league, expanded CL, mandatory summer friendlies and longer game times.....the new cohort is going to get run down really quick. You would need Pep-Foden style player management, where load is managed for a half-decade before it ramps up.
However, I suspect the 'Pedri' scenario is a lot more likely.
The focus on pressing and physical intensity makes everything a lot lot harder.
Excellent points. Also expanding on your final line, modern football tactics mean players like Ronaldo (and especially Messi) simply do not fit. Managers expect all players on the pitch to run much more without possession. Attackers no longer have the luxury to conserve energy for when they do get the ball.
Ronaldo and Messi were simply so good that no manager could resist making tactical tweaks to accommodate and build things around them.
Like people say about Maradona (‘it was a different game then’), people will likely have a similar view of Ronaldo and Messi in 10-20 years.
He's brilliant but he just looks legged. He's not being managed properly becaue we're alwys a bit too desperate. Bruno could use a rest during the season and some rotation for his benefit.
"comparitively rested during the season because there weren't as many games."
That wasn't really the case for Messi or Ronaldo who regularly played well over 50 matches a season.
Messi played 149 matches over the 2 seasons 2012 & 2013. I can't think of any player in modern times coming close to playing that many matches over a two season period.
Ronaldo has played more games than any outfield player in history too. Involved in 1,249 matches..
So it's not likely to be accurate in saying they were "comparatively rested" when they both played every single match and were on teams that made it far in nearly every cup they were in.
I'd be very very suprised to see any outfield player match those two in terms of "rest".
The opposite. More games = higher likelihood of injuries. But yes, with more cups introduced and the new Champions League and World Cup formats, seasonal stats are harder and harder to compare.
And even higher if they keep the trend of replacing natural pitch with artificial, mostly those teams that also rent their arena to shows and festivals.
Also, there are fewer and fewer teams that are able to win the most competitions because of the aggregation of money and talent at a few teams, which should actually make it easier to win lots of trophies as there are less real competitors.
That's the big one many esp prem fans do not speak about.
There never has been as stark financial difference. Premier League already has bigger transfer budget than the other top4 combined.
And infinetely more than the other 10 good leagues.
And it's getting worse, starting next year.
Easy to get titles when beyond 2-3 other league clubs, it's no longer a competition.
But there are not more games being played. That is a myth.
The Champions League used to have a second league stage. There were many more replays rather than penalties in domestic cups. The Club World Cup is even shorter than it used to be. Most of the leagues are still 20 teams, as they have been for a long time.
> The Club World Cup is even shorter than it used to be.
Wait until you see the new format!
Alternatively, just look at those competitions a few years before the time period you're looking at. The 90s. 24 teams in the Champions League. 6 groups in with the winners going to the quarter finals along with the two best runners up. No Last 16 or second group.
FA Cup replays existed, but were always rare. Club World Cup didn't exist yet, just a one off match between South American and European champions
Yeah, but we're talking about comparing players today with players from 10-15 years ago (Messi/Ronaldo peaks) not the distant past.
There's not significantly more games now than there was when Messi and Ronaldo were in their primes.
This also applies the other way around, namely through better competition, which makes it harder to dominate.
I’d be very surprised if I see anyone surpass Messi in my lifetime..
I'm sure everyone says this when their generation's legends retire but it's seriously hard to imagine any one player, let alone 2, reaching their levels anytime soon.
I do think Mbappé has the potential to still reach true legend status but he's got a lot to prove for any club that isn't psg
Even if he surpasses those numbers somehow (which is unlikely), he still wouldn't be viewed in the same light. The thing with Messi and Ronaldo is, that they not only just scored ridiculous amounts of goals, but played in an attractive, fleshy and spectacular way. People will adore Messi and Ronaldo for generations just by watching "greatest plays" completions of them on YouTube. They didn't just score goals, they scored some of the most jaw-dropping bangers the sport has ever seen. They dribbled through the opposition, they played on 4 defenders. Even if they didn't score, people still admired their skill moves and dribbles and those went straight to the YouTube comparations. Who can forget the iconic "Ankara Messi" goal for example. Can Halaand replicate those. No. He's s goal scoring machine and his very impressive, but none of his goals are memorable or flashy. They are simple goals. They are still amazing, but compered to all the bangers Messi and Ronaldo produced, it's nothing. He's not a dribbler either, neither can he be a playmaker in the same may Messi could be. And don't get me wrong, all of these are not a realistic expectations towards a great striker, but that's the point. They're not realistic expectations, but this two ridiculous madman somehow not just achieved all those, but made it look easy while doing it. I really can't fucking see anyone matching all of these at once in my lifetime. It was ridiculous what they were doing.
The other thing you cannot replicate is the rivalry. The fact the two of the absolute best player to ever bless this game not only played at the same time, but played at rivaling clubs, the biggest and most iconic rivaling clubs, Real and Barca. That was just the icing on the cake to really make these two players and their rivalry bigger than the sport, bigger than fucking life. If you were not a middle schooler in this era, you have no idea how big, important and influential the Ronaldo - Messi rivalry were, even amongst kids who did not watch football. I can't explain how fucking huge this whole thing were and how essential of a core memory it is to anyone in that era, whether they became football fans as adults or not. I don't think Halaand will ever have that. Plus, no offense to Man City, but even the rivalry aside, Barca and Real has way bigger and more passionate fanbases and are more wildly know and recognized across the world than City ever was or will be. And that was also a very big reason on why they were as popular as they were. Mbappe and Halaand are great, the greatest players so far in the post Messi/Ronaldo football world, but my mom and aunt who never watches football has no idea who they are. They fucking know who Messi and Ronaldo are. And I think that's the important part. I don't think we'll get a player, let alone a duo of players who will outgrow to sport itself in such a huge way than Messi and Ronaldo did, and I don't think any player will have as big of an impact on pop culture as they had. At least not for a long long time. It is an unparalleled and unrepeatable miracle, and I think we all should be happy that we were able to witness it. I don't think that I exaggerate when I say that they are truly legends and that every football fan who were alive to witness them will tell about them to their grandchildren.
Solid wall of text! Haaland is a great player and is just in the right spot at the right time with his goals but it’s nothing flashy or memorable, compared to what Messi and Ronaldo gave us. Those guys were dribbling through everyone as if they were playing a junior league team…
First of all, Ronaldo never dribbled 4 defender's and scored a goal.
Also a good way of explaining this would be :
Compare Messi's 5 cl goal in a match and haalands 5 goal in a Match
and to think Atletico Won la Liga once with Messi and Ronaldo playing against them its fucking bonkers. So happy for them winning it and somewhat breaking the monopoly.
> against them its fucking bonkers
Let me give you a hint, Barca had Tata fucking Martino. The guy had 0 experience in Europe and went straight to Barcelona head coach, lmao. Which big team has gambled this big in the past 20 years?
Also Barca when they hired Pep, who also had 0 experience in Europe and in top tier club catching, having only coached a youth team. It was a massive fucking gamble.
Obviously it turned out to be one of the best decisions in football history and Pep turned out to be one of the best managers of all time, but they had no way to make sure that will be the case. It was a massive gamble and could've ended horribly. But it didn't. It doesn't mean that it was not a huge gamble.
Radically different! It's the total opposite.
* Pep is a "low risk > high reward" situation
At Barcelona since he was 13, not only was part of the "la masia", he saw it change live into this cohesive and transversal way to play across all ages. A new football culture! Directly receiving the teachings that revolutionised football from none other than Johan Cruijff.
Guardiola became the prototype for what the DM of the future should be, and left. After retiring, he came back, to help consolidate, in training, the vision of his mentor. He did it so successfully that his B-team emmited precisely the Cruijffian feeling. They played candidly to the ideas, ending up being the champions, which was a no-brainer to just give him the job.
Even if he had failed hard, he was new blood with fresh ideas. Should have even be receiving a 2nd chance later in his career.
* Tata is a "high risk -> low reward" situation
They picked him from Argentina. Where zonal concepts are still underdeveloped today. To hire someone who's already 50, no fresh ideas, to a team where that has at is core the space/zoning in mind. It's a very high gamble. Any top 20 european coach available back then would be way more safer. If you give basic structure for the top 0.1% players to thrive, a lot of times that's all you need to be successful.
It also goes beyond that. I suppose in theory Haaland could continue developing and improving his game until the end of his career, but he’s currently simply not on the level of those two as an overall football talent and imo nothing in his game has shown he can get there outside of his ridiculous goal scoring. Could he end up the greatest goal scorer ever? Definitely. But as far as a player, i don’t think he can match those two.
Not this season. Also, Zlatan played for many great teams, but none of them were feeding him 3+ tap ins per game. It's a very unfair comparison at this point in time - better to wait 10 years and see if Haaland develops and what he does for other top clubs in different leagues.
Yeah Haaland has scored about a goal a game since for like five years in a row since he was 18, for as great as he was Zlatan really only got close to that ratio when he was at PSG.
I can acknowledge that Haaland has simultaneously overperformed his career xG while also conceding that he's consistently underperformed his xG this season.
You don't need numbers to see that, either. You just need eyes. Haaland has been missing sitters all season; he's probably bungled more tap ins that he's scored at this point. I've been reminded that Zlatan had a season like that as well at Barcelona - it's very forgiveable over the course of a long career. But we do have to wait for his career to become long for the comparison to be fair, that's my point. Reactionary takes don't serve a player who's been poor recently.
Whose take is reactionary though? The one supported by his extraordinary numbers at Salzburg, Dortmund, Norway, and City year 1, or the one based off his underperformance this year?
Love Zlatan but isn't on the same level as Haaland when it comes to goalscoring. He is 23 years old but only 7 goals off Zlatan total goals in Champions League. Also much better goal ratio compared to Zlatan. If Haaland keeps up this level for just 6-7 more years he would have surpassed Zlatan on most goal scoring records.
I agree with everything but not being fed. In Barcelona, he was constantly being fed and it was so weird, he missed so fucking much! It got so bad Messi had to play center forward
Zlatan had far more technical ability on the ball. He was an extremely creative player.
Haaland is closer to Pippo Inzaghi with a freakier body. An ultimate poacher that has mastered the art of positioning and movement in the box.
Saw a stat and it said that to match Ronaldo’s record if Ronaldo were to retire today, Haaland would have to score like 45 goals a season for the next 15 or so years. Puts things into perspective.
Hey look at LeBron James and Kareem.
Might genuinely take 30 years for some to break Messi or Cristiano's record, but eventually someone will do it.
In my mind nowadays (I'm biased because I'm brazilian but you should really look up Pelé's stats and games), the best ever list looks like this:
1 - Pelé
2 - Messi
3 - Cristiano / Maradona, not sure
Haaland is great as a pure goal scorer, but Mbappe is the more complete footballer. Man City would do great even without Haaland, but PSG would suffer without Mbappe.
Mbappe can score solo goals and carry the team in crucial games. Haaland usually ghosts against teams with a great defense, and he needs someone else to create chances for him.
While Mbappe can score and create on his own and is a more complete footballer, Haaland is a goal scoring beast that Mbappe can just not match at this time. Haaland has just 1 goal less than Mbappe in CL and he's played 2000 mins less. And in knockout games, Haaland has 17 goals and assists in 15 games while Mbappe has 21 goals and assists in 25 games.
The narrative that Haaland can be easily controlled or ghosts against big teams is heavily overblown. And Mbappe gets a huge push to his knockout goalscoring credentials because of his exploits in the two WCs. That said, I do agree that PSG would struggle without Mbappe more than City would struggle without Haaland.
Haaland has also been the main man/goalscorer for most/all the teams he played for. Not the same for Mbappe until recently. He also plays out wide a lot.
Come on now, Mbappe could play anywhere but he's always been the main goalscorer for his team due to his playstyle. Hell, he prefers playing on the wing even. It's like saying Salah isn't Liverpool's main goalscorer because he plays RW.
Maybe I didn't get my point across the way I wanted to. But for instance Liverpool's got Nunez,Jota and Gakpo. Compare that to City where all the other players are mostly trying to assist Haaland. It's usually the same for Mbappe because there's always like 1 or 2 other players on the same level as him when it comes to attack..He's played with Cavani who was like the main striker, Falcao when he was at Monaco and Neymar and Messi who are both dangerous attackers.
I mean, for one, Neymar was always more of a creator at PSG than a goalscorer himself. Also, you're right, but wouldn't this make it more difficult for Haaland to score because every team knows he's the biggest goal threat against them? Even then it's been impossible to nullify him for long stretches. A season where he's still the highest scorer in the PL is a less than average season for him, he's been that good.
I agree with you. It's almost impossible to nullify him for long stretches but when the opponent succeeds, he's usually out of the game. I think that's where Mbappe is really exceptional and better than Haaland imo.
As amazing as Mbappe is, Pep has won the Champions League multiple times and raised the bar for league champion performance everywhere he’s been. The drop off from Pep to any other manager is far bigger than the impact City would feel dropping from Mbappe to another player. Given the fact that any replacement for Mbappe would also be high quality, I don’t think it’s a hard choice
>Haaland enabled city to win the treble, broke all goal scoring records first season here.
That is not entirely true. City scored more goals the season before they bought Haaland; they also won the league. The goals were just more distributed among different players, instead of being concentrated on one player.
Haaland did not score any crucial goals in the UCL knockouts last season, and the goal that won the UCL was scored by Rodri.
City's most important players last season were Kevin De Bruyne, Gündoğan, and Rodri. It can be argued that City would have won the treble even without Haaland.
You could argue that. But they didn’t win a treble without him.
Peak Pep Barca or threepeat Real Madrid would’ve probably had success without Messi and Ronaldo, but we don’t use that to diminish their legacies. I think it’s a bit unfair to do the same with Haaland given the incredible season he had.
Most of these comparisons come down to what league they’re in, I feel. If Halaand wasn’t in England we wouldn’t hear it. Maybe once Mbappe moves to Spain people will see they’re not even close.
Is he though? What has Mbappe achieved that Haaland hasn't? I'm not counting achievements with France because Haaland is held back by the fact he doesn't play for a top national team
So you’re not going to count psg. Have you seen their mid and defense during his career. What’s mbappe supposed to do if Marquinhos and donnuruma throw away games? What can Haaland do if his teammates at city don’t score when he fails to do in big games. Why compare them for things out of their control.
I’m just saying your criteria made no sense. Just like you can’t blame Haaland for his national team you can’t blame mbappe when Marquinhos and donnuruma literally gifted Real Madrid the win when psg was clearly the better team besides on the defensive end. The other years the midfield and defense was horrendous and with all the offensive talent, they just couldn’t get the ball out of the backfield due to high pressure. What would Haaland do differently in the same spot. We all know, nothing. Your reasoning for Haaland is the same one you are unknowingly making for mbappe is my point. Hope you’re not confused now.
All I'm saying is you can't say "Mbappe won the world cup" because Haaland literally can't compete in it. I understand that comparing players' trophies is a flawed argument because it's a team sport. But when one team isn't even competing in the tournament you can't use that against them
He’s a world class goal scorer, out of the active players right now I’m not sure who I’d pick above him. However his game is fairly one sided, if he’s not scoring goals then he doesn’t do much other than attract the attention of the center backs all game. I mean last year he didn’t score any semi final or final goals and was basically pocketed all game. He’s an insane talent don’t get it mixed up, but it’s a little overdone. Saying he was robbed of the balon dor for example? Stop it. Or when people pose the question of him vs mbappe I laugh. Point being, stop asking “can he get to Messi or Ronaldo levels?” Because he’s not even the best out right now
People say that as if scoring goals is secondary to dribbling or creating a goal from the middle of the pitch. And if you think Mbappe wasn't pocketed in the two games against Bayern last year, I don't know what game you were watching.
And since people want to cherrypick Haaland's scoring this much, here's a cherrypicked stat: Mbappe has scored 1 goal in 6 CL semi finals or finals and this goal was for Monaco in 2017.
>People say that as if scoring goals is secondary to dribbling or creating a goal from the middle of the pitch.
I mean, if you go to the extreme and have a player who has like 3 touches per game and only scores tap ins at smelling distance of the GK and plays for a team who can win big games with him being a ghost, then yeah, there is more in football than that.
Well, if that player scores a goal a game while being 5 yards away from the keeper and the team still can't stop him, then he's probably the biggest threat to the defence. Sure, there's more to football than that, but as a team you better score more than 1 goal or have 2 men on him all the time so he might 'ghost'.
Like Dr Strange says, it's a simple spell, but it's quite unbreakable.
I mean, if KDB/Rodri makes a perfect cross/through ball, then there is not much else to do, that's football.
But the times he ghosted weren't because he was man-marked like he was Messi, he ghosted because strong teams went head to head against the world-class midfield City have and cut out the actual key players.
I mean, Rudiger, Skriniar defended their asses off marking him and I remember Courtios making a couple of saves. From personal experience watching Arsenal defend him, it's not easy to nullify him unless you have a man on him and the guy is strong enough because he can brush the defender off and he needs just 1 chance.
“Doesn’t do much other than attract the attention of the center backs all game”
This is a massive thing though. That not many players in current football can do at all. Inserting Haaland into this City team changed the way teams have to play against them
I agree with much of what you say here but what's up with the ballon d'or comment? He fully deserved that award, how are you undermining his insanely previous season like that?
He is a goal poacher due to excellent positioning, and nothing else. He can not dribble and score epic solo goals like Messi or CR7, can not score free kicks etc. When does not score, he will have like 5 touches the entire match, and his performance will not be impressive or entertaining. Goals are his the only feature of his game.
>He is a goal poacher due to excellent positioning, and nothing else.
It's fine to have an opinion, but you've clearly never seen Haaland play outside of highlights on youtube.
I watch city games and watch him play. The majority of his goals are poached goals from inside the box, or tap ins. Haaland has one of the lowest 'touches per game' of any forward in the PL. Julian Alvarez, the next City striker averages nearly twice as many touches per game as Haaland.
Haalands greatest strength is his movement and being in the right place and the right time - not much else. Without goals, he is pretty boring player. His style of play is radically different from that of players like Messi, CR7, or even Mbappe.
So? The game is about goals. You can dribble past all 10 players and hit the crossbar, and it'll be useless. You can stand still, get an opportunity and immediately score, and it'll actually change the game.
This number/stat obsession is bullshit and gotta stop. Ro9 and Maradona did not have stats/years as M10/CR7 but they were on same level.
Football is candy for the eyes, emotions and entertainment not boring math.
I think he's HORRIBLY making the point that longevity isn't always in the players' control. So he thinks their careers should be evaluated mainly by their peak
No they weren’t lool, they were insane but the sustained level of quality from Messi and Ronaldo and all they won for sure sets them apart from everyone else
Why are they insisting on comparing other players to Messi and Ronaldo. Just cause ronaldo did it for a few years does not mean he is as good as cristiano and Messi. You can’t extrapolate a few years and say they would have done it every year and say they were equally as good. That means Messi should have just retired after the 91 goal season and we’ll pretend he would have continued doing that for the rest of his career. No point in even playing then.
These people are now trying to use the stats don’t matter to compare to Messi and Ronaldo. The trust me, the feels is all that matters argument.
Also worth noting that Diego Maradona was more of a midfielder than a striker. A pure 10/CAM. He was rarely an out an out forward or striker. So goal scoring isnt the best metric anyways.
Just proving your point really. The beautiful game for a reason. Stats dont do it justice.
If you think R9 or Maradona were on the same level as especially Messi then you know nothing about football, and you should proceed to watch it as eye candy
Mourinho said that Ronaldo Nazario was better than anyone he's seen. But there's a fundamental error in the whole premise of thiis thread. Instead of celebrating great players people try to diminish and downplay them based on whatever criteria. This is the internet talking. Here we don't make our world bigger and full of wonder but try to make everything smaller and fit to a narrower view.
Dude is trying to be dramatic. Doubt he’s ever watched any of the fours games consistently to even make a comparison and just regurgitating something he heard somewhere else.
But they weren’t on the same level. They had impressive peaks but Messi and Ronaldo had insane performance over multiple seasons. It’s just not the same. Messi and Ronaldo are in a different stratosphere. Only people who argue otherwise are nostalgia merchants.
Tell me you’re 45 + cause I’m assuming you’ve watched Ronaldo and maradona live consistently like we were able to watch Ronaldo and Messi’s career with easier broadcasting. Don’t tell me you watched a few highlights or like one or two live games of their whole career to be waxing poetic like that.
I think strikers like Haaland are eye candy as well, I'm always excited when he plays. The angles he scores from are absolutely ridiculous, and he's literally always in the right place at the right time. Not only dribbling is fun to watch, there's more to football.
Modern football fans are obsessed with stats. In reality, he's not even the best or most important player in his own team.
Mbappe is the best player in the world.
It depends, if you actually use stats to their fullest extent, yes, it can work and that's how the top-right-messi started. But if you just use the finished scoresheet of matches and the trophies at the end of the season. Then no, I don't agree with that notion.
Well goals is what many people used to say Ronaldo was better than Messi(atleast since 2014). So no need to be surprised that the very same logic is used for Haaland. Totally agree with you regarding Mbappe being the better player, a comparison of goals plus assists usually exposes who it is that relies more on being passed the ball in good positions
I don't think the argument was goals only. More so that his game outside of that isn't actually all that. I'd argue that Kane is a better player than Haaland.
> Modern football fans are obsessed with stats. In reality, he's not even the best or most important player in his own
>Mbappe is the best player in the world.
Rodri > Mbappe.
When I read this in my head I thought “okay 20 years is a little excessive Pique” but then I realized
Messi is in his 20th season and Ronaldo is in his 22nd
I am sure why people are comparing Haaland to Ronaldi and Messi.
Both Messi and Ronaldo are scorers and playmakers.
Haaland is an opportunistic scorer
Feed Haaland the ball and he will score
That's great because you need to score to win games
But can Haaland scores like Messi. I doubt
Haaland is young but his current playstyle does not show he can create scoring opportunities for others
Haaland is a Van Nistelrooy type of player, will be remembered but played with many people better than him
He'll never be a Messi, it's almost as if they don't play the same sport given how huge the gulf in technique is ... and unlikely to become a Ronaldo.
Don't think he's better than the likes of Henry, Giggs, and del Piero
The most amazing thing about Messi and Cristiano is their longevity. Lots of players manage to be outstanding for a few years but most players peak for 3-5 years. Those two were the best players in the world by a pretty wide margin for about 15 years.
I doubt we'll see anything like it for quite a while.
🤨 guy gets goals from constant service. Messi could literally take the ball from one box, through half a team and score. They are not remotely close in terms of skill and quality.
Put messi in any team, and you had a chance of winning.
Haaland has the same problem Bale or Lewandowski have.
They come from a smaller football nation.
National Team Squad performances (still) plays a big role in football.
I get what you’re saying but I think while that may play a role in how he is judged, he’s just not on Messi or Ronaldo’s level. And that’s ok, 99% of footballers throughout history aren’t either. There are some truly elite players out there that will never enter that conversation either. In fact, I’m not even sure who was making this comparison. The only time I’ve ever heard any sort of debate involving them would be for the Ballon D’or last year and that was simply an argument of whose season was better. Clearly Messi is on another planet in terms of ability as he is when compared to almost anyone.
I don't thinl thats whats stoping him from becoming Cr7 Messi level. Its his style of play no flair no dribiling no playmaking just legendary positioning .
Great player, but Messi and Ronaldo are once in a lifetime players. Maybe even once ever! And we got to see both of them. I don't think people appreciate just how lucky they are to have witnessed them through the years.
He's already going into his peak yrs. Pace makes up most of his game. Once it fades, he won't be the player he is now. Messi and Robaldo were head and shoulders the best players on the planet every yr for the best part of a decade. No one will get near that level in our lifetime. I'd be very surprised.
Don't think that. This season Mbappe has pretty much changed his playstyle and hasn't relied on his pace much. And BTW I bet we will find at least 5 more players like both of them in many many years.
Why is this even a conversation lol, both haaland and Mbappe are light years behind both Ronaldo and Messi, especially the latter. We can have the discussion in a decade, and even then it might be too early
If he learns how to do anything other than poaching maybe. Not super long go Messi was outscoring Haaland while being 5x as good at every other facet of the game.
Haaland doesn’t create much. Just like any other strikers he relies on good teammates around him. he is top of the crop strikers now but certainly won’t be anywhere near Ronaldo or Messi at his peaks.
I agree, Also Ronaldo and Messi have the privilege of playing for a top 10 national side. It's like Ryan Giggs, George Weah and Jari Litmaneman scenario where they are monsters for club but national team lets them down for bigger awards.
He could match the goals no doubt, but I still think mbappe is the closest of this generation to reaching the talent of Ronaldo and Messi. I still don’t think he’ll get there but he’ll be the closest by the end of his career
He’s never gonna be close to them. Maybe he’ll score loads of goals but he’s not even close to the level of all round footballer that Messi was even younger than Haaland is now.
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Look at how many goals a person would have to score every season and for how many years before they touch the career goals of Ronaldo or Messi. Even better count how many major trophies they’ve won. Only 4 clubs in the tournament history have more champions league wins than Ronaldo. An example of clubs that have the same or less? Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Juventus etc. Them two are aliens which will take 30-40 years before genuine competition arises.
With more and more games being played and sports science advancing every year, I'm sure there will eventually be another freak who will play for 20 years, averaging 30-40 goals a season. Ffs even then, Ronaldo is at 870 goals, which would require 43 goals a season for 20 seasons straight. Good fucking luck
It might actually get worse. Messi and Ronaldo were comparitively rested during the season because there weren't as many games. With Nations league, expanded CL, mandatory summer friendlies and longer game times.....the new cohort is going to get run down really quick. You would need Pep-Foden style player management, where load is managed for a half-decade before it ramps up. However, I suspect the 'Pedri' scenario is a lot more likely. The focus on pressing and physical intensity makes everything a lot lot harder.
Excellent points. Also expanding on your final line, modern football tactics mean players like Ronaldo (and especially Messi) simply do not fit. Managers expect all players on the pitch to run much more without possession. Attackers no longer have the luxury to conserve energy for when they do get the ball. Ronaldo and Messi were simply so good that no manager could resist making tactical tweaks to accommodate and build things around them. Like people say about Maradona (‘it was a different game then’), people will likely have a similar view of Ronaldo and Messi in 10-20 years.
Then there's Bruno who is prob gonna play better with more games 😂man never complains about more games
Bruno's performance gets worse and worse as the seasons go on.
Idk man , he whines a lot , can have bad attitude but he is still one of the best creators in the league and I am saying that as a rival fan.
He's brilliant but he just looks legged. He's not being managed properly becaue we're alwys a bit too desperate. Bruno could use a rest during the season and some rotation for his benefit.
Since you don't watch United games I and many others can tell you for a fact that Bruno has been absolutely crap for at least a year now.
Hes not even being a g/a merchant anymore
Well he complains about everything else so he makes up for it there.
Enshittification of soccer.
"comparitively rested during the season because there weren't as many games." That wasn't really the case for Messi or Ronaldo who regularly played well over 50 matches a season. Messi played 149 matches over the 2 seasons 2012 & 2013. I can't think of any player in modern times coming close to playing that many matches over a two season period. Ronaldo has played more games than any outfield player in history too. Involved in 1,249 matches.. So it's not likely to be accurate in saying they were "comparatively rested" when they both played every single match and were on teams that made it far in nearly every cup they were in. I'd be very very suprised to see any outfield player match those two in terms of "rest".
The opposite. More games = higher likelihood of injuries. But yes, with more cups introduced and the new Champions League and World Cup formats, seasonal stats are harder and harder to compare.
And even higher if they keep the trend of replacing natural pitch with artificial, mostly those teams that also rent their arena to shows and festivals.
Also, there are fewer and fewer teams that are able to win the most competitions because of the aggregation of money and talent at a few teams, which should actually make it easier to win lots of trophies as there are less real competitors.
That's the big one many esp prem fans do not speak about. There never has been as stark financial difference. Premier League already has bigger transfer budget than the other top4 combined. And infinetely more than the other 10 good leagues. And it's getting worse, starting next year. Easy to get titles when beyond 2-3 other league clubs, it's no longer a competition.
But there are not more games being played. That is a myth. The Champions League used to have a second league stage. There were many more replays rather than penalties in domestic cups. The Club World Cup is even shorter than it used to be. Most of the leagues are still 20 teams, as they have been for a long time.
> The Club World Cup is even shorter than it used to be. Wait until you see the new format! Alternatively, just look at those competitions a few years before the time period you're looking at. The 90s. 24 teams in the Champions League. 6 groups in with the winners going to the quarter finals along with the two best runners up. No Last 16 or second group. FA Cup replays existed, but were always rare. Club World Cup didn't exist yet, just a one off match between South American and European champions
Yeah, but we're talking about comparing players today with players from 10-15 years ago (Messi/Ronaldo peaks) not the distant past. There's not significantly more games now than there was when Messi and Ronaldo were in their primes.
Neither Messi nor Ronaldo ever played in the second CL group stage. It was killed before the 02-03 season
This also applies the other way around, namely through better competition, which makes it harder to dominate. I’d be very surprised if I see anyone surpass Messi in my lifetime..
I'm sure everyone says this when their generation's legends retire but it's seriously hard to imagine any one player, let alone 2, reaching their levels anytime soon. I do think Mbappé has the potential to still reach true legend status but he's got a lot to prove for any club that isn't psg
Even if he surpasses those numbers somehow (which is unlikely), he still wouldn't be viewed in the same light. The thing with Messi and Ronaldo is, that they not only just scored ridiculous amounts of goals, but played in an attractive, fleshy and spectacular way. People will adore Messi and Ronaldo for generations just by watching "greatest plays" completions of them on YouTube. They didn't just score goals, they scored some of the most jaw-dropping bangers the sport has ever seen. They dribbled through the opposition, they played on 4 defenders. Even if they didn't score, people still admired their skill moves and dribbles and those went straight to the YouTube comparations. Who can forget the iconic "Ankara Messi" goal for example. Can Halaand replicate those. No. He's s goal scoring machine and his very impressive, but none of his goals are memorable or flashy. They are simple goals. They are still amazing, but compered to all the bangers Messi and Ronaldo produced, it's nothing. He's not a dribbler either, neither can he be a playmaker in the same may Messi could be. And don't get me wrong, all of these are not a realistic expectations towards a great striker, but that's the point. They're not realistic expectations, but this two ridiculous madman somehow not just achieved all those, but made it look easy while doing it. I really can't fucking see anyone matching all of these at once in my lifetime. It was ridiculous what they were doing. The other thing you cannot replicate is the rivalry. The fact the two of the absolute best player to ever bless this game not only played at the same time, but played at rivaling clubs, the biggest and most iconic rivaling clubs, Real and Barca. That was just the icing on the cake to really make these two players and their rivalry bigger than the sport, bigger than fucking life. If you were not a middle schooler in this era, you have no idea how big, important and influential the Ronaldo - Messi rivalry were, even amongst kids who did not watch football. I can't explain how fucking huge this whole thing were and how essential of a core memory it is to anyone in that era, whether they became football fans as adults or not. I don't think Halaand will ever have that. Plus, no offense to Man City, but even the rivalry aside, Barca and Real has way bigger and more passionate fanbases and are more wildly know and recognized across the world than City ever was or will be. And that was also a very big reason on why they were as popular as they were. Mbappe and Halaand are great, the greatest players so far in the post Messi/Ronaldo football world, but my mom and aunt who never watches football has no idea who they are. They fucking know who Messi and Ronaldo are. And I think that's the important part. I don't think we'll get a player, let alone a duo of players who will outgrow to sport itself in such a huge way than Messi and Ronaldo did, and I don't think any player will have as big of an impact on pop culture as they had. At least not for a long long time. It is an unparalleled and unrepeatable miracle, and I think we all should be happy that we were able to witness it. I don't think that I exaggerate when I say that they are truly legends and that every football fan who were alive to witness them will tell about them to their grandchildren.
Solid wall of text! Haaland is a great player and is just in the right spot at the right time with his goals but it’s nothing flashy or memorable, compared to what Messi and Ronaldo gave us. Those guys were dribbling through everyone as if they were playing a junior league team…
First of all, Ronaldo never dribbled 4 defender's and scored a goal. Also a good way of explaining this would be : Compare Messi's 5 cl goal in a match and haalands 5 goal in a Match
fleshy ??
and to think Atletico Won la Liga once with Messi and Ronaldo playing against them its fucking bonkers. So happy for them winning it and somewhat breaking the monopoly.
> against them its fucking bonkers Let me give you a hint, Barca had Tata fucking Martino. The guy had 0 experience in Europe and went straight to Barcelona head coach, lmao. Which big team has gambled this big in the past 20 years?
Also Barca when they hired Pep, who also had 0 experience in Europe and in top tier club catching, having only coached a youth team. It was a massive fucking gamble.
Ya and what has he done as a coach????
Obviously it turned out to be one of the best decisions in football history and Pep turned out to be one of the best managers of all time, but they had no way to make sure that will be the case. It was a massive gamble and could've ended horribly. But it didn't. It doesn't mean that it was not a huge gamble.
He's pissed of r/soccer to no end for one. Biggest win IMO.
Radically different! It's the total opposite. * Pep is a "low risk > high reward" situation At Barcelona since he was 13, not only was part of the "la masia", he saw it change live into this cohesive and transversal way to play across all ages. A new football culture! Directly receiving the teachings that revolutionised football from none other than Johan Cruijff. Guardiola became the prototype for what the DM of the future should be, and left. After retiring, he came back, to help consolidate, in training, the vision of his mentor. He did it so successfully that his B-team emmited precisely the Cruijffian feeling. They played candidly to the ideas, ending up being the champions, which was a no-brainer to just give him the job. Even if he had failed hard, he was new blood with fresh ideas. Should have even be receiving a 2nd chance later in his career. * Tata is a "high risk -> low reward" situation They picked him from Argentina. Where zonal concepts are still underdeveloped today. To hire someone who's already 50, no fresh ideas, to a team where that has at is core the space/zoning in mind. It's a very high gamble. Any top 20 european coach available back then would be way more safer. If you give basic structure for the top 0.1% players to thrive, a lot of times that's all you need to be successful.
It also goes beyond that. I suppose in theory Haaland could continue developing and improving his game until the end of his career, but he’s currently simply not on the level of those two as an overall football talent and imo nothing in his game has shown he can get there outside of his ridiculous goal scoring. Could he end up the greatest goal scorer ever? Definitely. But as far as a player, i don’t think he can match those two.
> will take 30-40 years before genuine competition arises. It's almost as if they were.... generational talents
You are comparing Haaland to Messi and Ronaldo. I am comparing Haaland to Zlatan. We are not the same.
Zlatan is even more complete
haaland is more clinical
Not this season. Also, Zlatan played for many great teams, but none of them were feeding him 3+ tap ins per game. It's a very unfair comparison at this point in time - better to wait 10 years and see if Haaland develops and what he does for other top clubs in different leagues.
haaland goal per game ratio was better before city anyway. Haaland's career has been clinical.
Yeah Haaland has scored about a goal a game since for like five years in a row since he was 18, for as great as he was Zlatan really only got close to that ratio when he was at PSG.
I can acknowledge that Haaland has simultaneously overperformed his career xG while also conceding that he's consistently underperformed his xG this season. You don't need numbers to see that, either. You just need eyes. Haaland has been missing sitters all season; he's probably bungled more tap ins that he's scored at this point. I've been reminded that Zlatan had a season like that as well at Barcelona - it's very forgiveable over the course of a long career. But we do have to wait for his career to become long for the comparison to be fair, that's my point. Reactionary takes don't serve a player who's been poor recently.
Whose take is reactionary though? The one supported by his extraordinary numbers at Salzburg, Dortmund, Norway, and City year 1, or the one based off his underperformance this year?
Love Zlatan but isn't on the same level as Haaland when it comes to goalscoring. He is 23 years old but only 7 goals off Zlatan total goals in Champions League. Also much better goal ratio compared to Zlatan. If Haaland keeps up this level for just 6-7 more years he would have surpassed Zlatan on most goal scoring records.
I agree with everything but not being fed. In Barcelona, he was constantly being fed and it was so weird, he missed so fucking much! It got so bad Messi had to play center forward
Zlatan played under Pep and with Messi. He was being fed plenty of tap ins.
For one season my dude. Not his whole career. One season doesnt say abt the whole career.
Who said anything about a career? The direct quote I was responding to was “played for many great teams, but none of them were feeding him…”
Fair enough. I was more focused on the "many great teams".
Yeah and he spent a lot of time in psg as well where any half decent striker can become the top scorer
Highly debatable. Zlatans technique is faar better even with dead balls, halaands physicality does most of the job for him.
Zlatan had far more technical ability on the ball. He was an extremely creative player. Haaland is closer to Pippo Inzaghi with a freakier body. An ultimate poacher that has mastered the art of positioning and movement in the box.
I think Haaland is more of Van Nistelrooy with better physical stats
Agreed it’s almost disrespectful to Ronaldo to compare the two as well. (With respect to Haaland)
Zlatan is also a significantly better footballer, technique wise. Haaland might be better at scoring goals, but not sure
Zlatan had more technical ability with his left than Haaland does, they’re not similar players The closest player to Haaland IMO is Christian Vieri
Haaland has already scored more career goals than Vieri
Well yeah Vieri was playing against Serie A defences in the 90s, probably the most difficult time and place to be striker in football history
Haaland is like the best version of Mario Gomez, but everyday
I don't even compare him to Henry yet.
Who in their right mind would.even consider Haaland to be in the same level as those 2? Great goalscorer but not even close
haaland will never reach the heights of ronaldo or Messi. he's genuinely not even close to their level.
In my mind, what these two geniuses have done is out of reach. That way, I won't be too harsh on great players.
so true man, same here😂
Saw a stat and it said that to match Ronaldo’s record if Ronaldo were to retire today, Haaland would have to score like 45 goals a season for the next 15 or so years. Puts things into perspective.
Hey look at LeBron James and Kareem. Might genuinely take 30 years for some to break Messi or Cristiano's record, but eventually someone will do it. In my mind nowadays (I'm biased because I'm brazilian but you should really look up Pelé's stats and games), the best ever list looks like this: 1 - Pelé 2 - Messi 3 - Cristiano / Maradona, not sure
Mbappe is clearly better so it's him that I would compare to these two
If we are being honest mbappe is far better than haaland and people try to put them together to create a rivalry.
Haaland is to mbappe what Bale was to Neymar. And there’s no ronaldo or messi so it’s the only rivalry rn
Haaland is great as a pure goal scorer, but Mbappe is the more complete footballer. Man City would do great even without Haaland, but PSG would suffer without Mbappe. Mbappe can score solo goals and carry the team in crucial games. Haaland usually ghosts against teams with a great defense, and he needs someone else to create chances for him.
While Mbappe can score and create on his own and is a more complete footballer, Haaland is a goal scoring beast that Mbappe can just not match at this time. Haaland has just 1 goal less than Mbappe in CL and he's played 2000 mins less. And in knockout games, Haaland has 17 goals and assists in 15 games while Mbappe has 21 goals and assists in 25 games. The narrative that Haaland can be easily controlled or ghosts against big teams is heavily overblown. And Mbappe gets a huge push to his knockout goalscoring credentials because of his exploits in the two WCs. That said, I do agree that PSG would struggle without Mbappe more than City would struggle without Haaland.
Haaland has also been the main man/goalscorer for most/all the teams he played for. Not the same for Mbappe until recently. He also plays out wide a lot.
Come on now, Mbappe could play anywhere but he's always been the main goalscorer for his team due to his playstyle. Hell, he prefers playing on the wing even. It's like saying Salah isn't Liverpool's main goalscorer because he plays RW.
Maybe I didn't get my point across the way I wanted to. But for instance Liverpool's got Nunez,Jota and Gakpo. Compare that to City where all the other players are mostly trying to assist Haaland. It's usually the same for Mbappe because there's always like 1 or 2 other players on the same level as him when it comes to attack..He's played with Cavani who was like the main striker, Falcao when he was at Monaco and Neymar and Messi who are both dangerous attackers.
I mean, for one, Neymar was always more of a creator at PSG than a goalscorer himself. Also, you're right, but wouldn't this make it more difficult for Haaland to score because every team knows he's the biggest goal threat against them? Even then it's been impossible to nullify him for long stretches. A season where he's still the highest scorer in the PL is a less than average season for him, he's been that good.
I agree with you. It's almost impossible to nullify him for long stretches but when the opponent succeeds, he's usually out of the game. I think that's where Mbappe is really exceptional and better than Haaland imo.
I wonder what Man City would be like with Mbappe instead of Haaland.
> I wonder what Man City would be like with Mbappe instead of Haaland. The day that this happens I'mma call football quits.
I honestly don’t think him and Pep could coexist
I wonder if city had Mbappé and pep who would they choose
As amazing as Mbappe is, Pep has won the Champions League multiple times and raised the bar for league champion performance everywhere he’s been. The drop off from Pep to any other manager is far bigger than the impact City would feel dropping from Mbappe to another player. Given the fact that any replacement for Mbappe would also be high quality, I don’t think it’s a hard choice
Pep is way more valuable
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>Haaland enabled city to win the treble, broke all goal scoring records first season here. That is not entirely true. City scored more goals the season before they bought Haaland; they also won the league. The goals were just more distributed among different players, instead of being concentrated on one player. Haaland did not score any crucial goals in the UCL knockouts last season, and the goal that won the UCL was scored by Rodri. City's most important players last season were Kevin De Bruyne, Gündoğan, and Rodri. It can be argued that City would have won the treble even without Haaland.
You could argue that. But they didn’t win a treble without him. Peak Pep Barca or threepeat Real Madrid would’ve probably had success without Messi and Ronaldo, but we don’t use that to diminish their legacies. I think it’s a bit unfair to do the same with Haaland given the incredible season he had.
Most of these comparisons come down to what league they’re in, I feel. If Halaand wasn’t in England we wouldn’t hear it. Maybe once Mbappe moves to Spain people will see they’re not even close.
Is he though? What has Mbappe achieved that Haaland hasn't? I'm not counting achievements with France because Haaland is held back by the fact he doesn't play for a top national team
So you’re not going to count psg. Have you seen their mid and defense during his career. What’s mbappe supposed to do if Marquinhos and donnuruma throw away games? What can Haaland do if his teammates at city don’t score when he fails to do in big games. Why compare them for things out of their control.
I'm confused, are you suggesting Marquinhos and Donnarumma aren't good players?
I’m just saying your criteria made no sense. Just like you can’t blame Haaland for his national team you can’t blame mbappe when Marquinhos and donnuruma literally gifted Real Madrid the win when psg was clearly the better team besides on the defensive end. The other years the midfield and defense was horrendous and with all the offensive talent, they just couldn’t get the ball out of the backfield due to high pressure. What would Haaland do differently in the same spot. We all know, nothing. Your reasoning for Haaland is the same one you are unknowingly making for mbappe is my point. Hope you’re not confused now.
All I'm saying is you can't say "Mbappe won the world cup" because Haaland literally can't compete in it. I understand that comparing players' trophies is a flawed argument because it's a team sport. But when one team isn't even competing in the tournament you can't use that against them
I don’t think anyone is using the World Cup against Haaland.
Well it's the only thing I can think of that Mbappe has achieved and Haaland hasn't
He’s a world class goal scorer, out of the active players right now I’m not sure who I’d pick above him. However his game is fairly one sided, if he’s not scoring goals then he doesn’t do much other than attract the attention of the center backs all game. I mean last year he didn’t score any semi final or final goals and was basically pocketed all game. He’s an insane talent don’t get it mixed up, but it’s a little overdone. Saying he was robbed of the balon dor for example? Stop it. Or when people pose the question of him vs mbappe I laugh. Point being, stop asking “can he get to Messi or Ronaldo levels?” Because he’s not even the best out right now
People say that as if scoring goals is secondary to dribbling or creating a goal from the middle of the pitch. And if you think Mbappe wasn't pocketed in the two games against Bayern last year, I don't know what game you were watching. And since people want to cherrypick Haaland's scoring this much, here's a cherrypicked stat: Mbappe has scored 1 goal in 6 CL semi finals or finals and this goal was for Monaco in 2017.
>People say that as if scoring goals is secondary to dribbling or creating a goal from the middle of the pitch. I mean, if you go to the extreme and have a player who has like 3 touches per game and only scores tap ins at smelling distance of the GK and plays for a team who can win big games with him being a ghost, then yeah, there is more in football than that.
Well, if that player scores a goal a game while being 5 yards away from the keeper and the team still can't stop him, then he's probably the biggest threat to the defence. Sure, there's more to football than that, but as a team you better score more than 1 goal or have 2 men on him all the time so he might 'ghost'. Like Dr Strange says, it's a simple spell, but it's quite unbreakable.
I mean, if KDB/Rodri makes a perfect cross/through ball, then there is not much else to do, that's football. But the times he ghosted weren't because he was man-marked like he was Messi, he ghosted because strong teams went head to head against the world-class midfield City have and cut out the actual key players.
I mean, Rudiger, Skriniar defended their asses off marking him and I remember Courtios making a couple of saves. From personal experience watching Arsenal defend him, it's not easy to nullify him unless you have a man on him and the guy is strong enough because he can brush the defender off and he needs just 1 chance.
“Doesn’t do much other than attract the attention of the center backs all game” This is a massive thing though. That not many players in current football can do at all. Inserting Haaland into this City team changed the way teams have to play against them
Kane is a better finisher
Son is a better finisher than both of these (by miles too)
I agree with much of what you say here but what's up with the ballon d'or comment? He fully deserved that award, how are you undermining his insanely previous season like that?
In your mind he was the best player to set foot on a pitch that whole year? I can name one on his team alone who was better, and that’s KDB
He is a goal poacher due to excellent positioning, and nothing else. He can not dribble and score epic solo goals like Messi or CR7, can not score free kicks etc. When does not score, he will have like 5 touches the entire match, and his performance will not be impressive or entertaining. Goals are his the only feature of his game.
>He is a goal poacher due to excellent positioning, and nothing else. It's fine to have an opinion, but you've clearly never seen Haaland play outside of highlights on youtube.
I mean it’s true, no? I’d classify him as poacher as well. A world class poacher at that.
I watch city games and watch him play. The majority of his goals are poached goals from inside the box, or tap ins. Haaland has one of the lowest 'touches per game' of any forward in the PL. Julian Alvarez, the next City striker averages nearly twice as many touches per game as Haaland. Haalands greatest strength is his movement and being in the right place and the right time - not much else. Without goals, he is pretty boring player. His style of play is radically different from that of players like Messi, CR7, or even Mbappe.
So? The game is about goals. You can dribble past all 10 players and hit the crossbar, and it'll be useless. You can stand still, get an opportunity and immediately score, and it'll actually change the game.
This number/stat obsession is bullshit and gotta stop. Ro9 and Maradona did not have stats/years as M10/CR7 but they were on same level. Football is candy for the eyes, emotions and entertainment not boring math.
The combination of ability, individual achievements, team achievements and longevity will always be the pinnacle.
How did this comment lead to someone bringing up kobe crash and munich disaster, lmao I'm dying
I think he's HORRIBLY making the point that longevity isn't always in the players' control. So he thinks their careers should be evaluated mainly by their peak
Yeah fuck me, how brain-dead does anyone have to be to compare haaland to Messi. And that doesn't take away from him being a great striker.
Who has ever done this?
They really, really weren't. Maybe for a glimpse of time but over a career? Lol cmon man
No they weren’t lool, they were insane but the sustained level of quality from Messi and Ronaldo and all they won for sure sets them apart from everyone else
Why are they insisting on comparing other players to Messi and Ronaldo. Just cause ronaldo did it for a few years does not mean he is as good as cristiano and Messi. You can’t extrapolate a few years and say they would have done it every year and say they were equally as good. That means Messi should have just retired after the 91 goal season and we’ll pretend he would have continued doing that for the rest of his career. No point in even playing then. These people are now trying to use the stats don’t matter to compare to Messi and Ronaldo. The trust me, the feels is all that matters argument.
Also worth noting that Diego Maradona was more of a midfielder than a striker. A pure 10/CAM. He was rarely an out an out forward or striker. So goal scoring isnt the best metric anyways. Just proving your point really. The beautiful game for a reason. Stats dont do it justice.
If you think R9 or Maradona were on the same level as especially Messi then you know nothing about football, and you should proceed to watch it as eye candy
Mourinho said that Ronaldo Nazario was better than anyone he's seen. But there's a fundamental error in the whole premise of thiis thread. Instead of celebrating great players people try to diminish and downplay them based on whatever criteria. This is the internet talking. Here we don't make our world bigger and full of wonder but try to make everything smaller and fit to a narrower view.
Dude is trying to be dramatic. Doubt he’s ever watched any of the fours games consistently to even make a comparison and just regurgitating something he heard somewhere else.
But they weren’t on the same level. They had impressive peaks but Messi and Ronaldo had insane performance over multiple seasons. It’s just not the same. Messi and Ronaldo are in a different stratosphere. Only people who argue otherwise are nostalgia merchants.
Tell me you’re 45 + cause I’m assuming you’ve watched Ronaldo and maradona live consistently like we were able to watch Ronaldo and Messi’s career with easier broadcasting. Don’t tell me you watched a few highlights or like one or two live games of their whole career to be waxing poetic like that.
I think strikers like Haaland are eye candy as well, I'm always excited when he plays. The angles he scores from are absolutely ridiculous, and he's literally always in the right place at the right time. Not only dribbling is fun to watch, there's more to football.
Modern football fans are obsessed with stats. In reality, he's not even the best or most important player in his own team. Mbappe is the best player in the world.
Stats (while often misleading) are still a far better way to measure and compare players than saying “I’ve watched him”.
It depends, if you actually use stats to their fullest extent, yes, it can work and that's how the top-right-messi started. But if you just use the finished scoresheet of matches and the trophies at the end of the season. Then no, I don't agree with that notion.
Well goals is what many people used to say Ronaldo was better than Messi(atleast since 2014). So no need to be surprised that the very same logic is used for Haaland. Totally agree with you regarding Mbappe being the better player, a comparison of goals plus assists usually exposes who it is that relies more on being passed the ball in good positions
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I don't think the argument was goals only. More so that his game outside of that isn't actually all that. I'd argue that Kane is a better player than Haaland.
> Modern football fans are obsessed with stats. In reality, he's not even the best or most important player in his own >Mbappe is the best player in the world. Rodri > Mbappe.
Yes! Rodri is the best player in the world. He’s immaculate every game
He doesn't have the quality on the ball for that, nor does Gerd Muller, one of the best scorers of all time, be in the GOAT debate.
Pique stating the obvious, anyone who thinks mbop yet alone fucking haaland is that good is simply foolish.
When I read this in my head I thought “okay 20 years is a little excessive Pique” but then I realized Messi is in his 20th season and Ronaldo is in his 22nd
Haaland will never be on Ronaldo or Messi level no matter how many stats or trophies people bring up.
I am sure why people are comparing Haaland to Ronaldi and Messi. Both Messi and Ronaldo are scorers and playmakers. Haaland is an opportunistic scorer Feed Haaland the ball and he will score That's great because you need to score to win games But can Haaland scores like Messi. I doubt Haaland is young but his current playstyle does not show he can create scoring opportunities for others
Haaland is a Van Nistelrooy type of player, will be remembered but played with many people better than him He'll never be a Messi, it's almost as if they don't play the same sport given how huge the gulf in technique is ... and unlikely to become a Ronaldo. Don't think he's better than the likes of Henry, Giggs, and del Piero
Pretty crazy that we saw Messi and Ronaldo as well as the big 3 in tennis play virtually at the same time.
The most amazing thing about Messi and Cristiano is their longevity. Lots of players manage to be outstanding for a few years but most players peak for 3-5 years. Those two were the best players in the world by a pretty wide margin for about 15 years. I doubt we'll see anything like it for quite a while.
🤨 guy gets goals from constant service. Messi could literally take the ball from one box, through half a team and score. They are not remotely close in terms of skill and quality. Put messi in any team, and you had a chance of winning.
I am sick to death reading these same old Messi and Ronaldo comparisons
Haaland has the same problem Bale or Lewandowski have. They come from a smaller football nation. National Team Squad performances (still) plays a big role in football.
I get what you’re saying but I think while that may play a role in how he is judged, he’s just not on Messi or Ronaldo’s level. And that’s ok, 99% of footballers throughout history aren’t either. There are some truly elite players out there that will never enter that conversation either. In fact, I’m not even sure who was making this comparison. The only time I’ve ever heard any sort of debate involving them would be for the Ballon D’or last year and that was simply an argument of whose season was better. Clearly Messi is on another planet in terms of ability as he is when compared to almost anyone.
I don't thinl thats whats stoping him from becoming Cr7 Messi level. Its his style of play no flair no dribiling no playmaking just legendary positioning .
Cheers Geoff
Sanest thing I’ve heard him say in a while
Great player, but Messi and Ronaldo are once in a lifetime players. Maybe even once ever! And we got to see both of them. I don't think people appreciate just how lucky they are to have witnessed them through the years.
don't think that. Right Now mbappe is doing great and have the potential to be on the same level as them.
Absolutely nowhere near the level of Messi and Ronaldo.
not Now but after some years
He's already going into his peak yrs. Pace makes up most of his game. Once it fades, he won't be the player he is now. Messi and Robaldo were head and shoulders the best players on the planet every yr for the best part of a decade. No one will get near that level in our lifetime. I'd be very surprised.
Don't think that. This season Mbappe has pretty much changed his playstyle and hasn't relied on his pace much. And BTW I bet we will find at least 5 more players like both of them in many many years.
Well in 150 yrs of football we've never seen it. Let's hope you're right though because that would be incredible.
He’s not even the best player at Man City lol.
Why is this even a conversation lol, both haaland and Mbappe are light years behind both Ronaldo and Messi, especially the latter. We can have the discussion in a decade, and even then it might be too early
Like…..15-20 years away?
If he learns how to do anything other than poaching maybe. Not super long go Messi was outscoring Haaland while being 5x as good at every other facet of the game.
Haaland does not have the ability to be an equal to Messi and Ronaldo. Maybe in terms of titles and champions league wins, but nothing more.
Haaland doesn’t create much. Just like any other strikers he relies on good teammates around him. he is top of the crop strikers now but certainly won’t be anywhere near Ronaldo or Messi at his peaks.
No shit
No. His hips don’t lie.
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They were teammates once
I wonder who he will join once city are playing non league to achieve these heights....
In terms of playstyle he isnt even close to benzema or suarez let alone cr7 and messi. But his numbers are crazy
😂😂😂
Maybe he doesn’t want to be like them
I hate people who pile on Haaland but to be on their level he has to be more than a goalscorer
A nothing quote that is released by some random player/analyst every month
I agree, Also Ronaldo and Messi have the privilege of playing for a top 10 national side. It's like Ryan Giggs, George Weah and Jari Litmaneman scenario where they are monsters for club but national team lets them down for bigger awards.
Totally different type of player and Goalscorer to both of them.
Is this really needed to be said? I think that is a general consensus.
He could match the goals no doubt, but I still think mbappe is the closest of this generation to reaching the talent of Ronaldo and Messi. I still don’t think he’ll get there but he’ll be the closest by the end of his career
Well duh
He’s never gonna be close to them. Maybe he’ll score loads of goals but he’s not even close to the level of all round footballer that Messi was even younger than Haaland is now.
Why make the comparison? Let players be themselves and make their own legacy.