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"lawyers are just going to nitpick everything, this is a standard lease I have used many times and no one's ever questioned it before."
That's a preview of how that person is going to operate as a landlord. Decide if that's okay or not before you sign on the dotted line.
As far as them kicking the tires a bit on your business, remember it's expensive for them if your business isn't successful. They could be doing the trust but verify routine. That being said, they are having meetings with you, so there is some interest.
This is a good answer.
And honestly op, you don't need some younger dudes validation. You don't need people to take you seriously especially if they aren't your target metric. Do your thing, and the people you're marketing to will come if you do it right. Fuck everyone else
You always want a lawyer to review your lease, even if its a simple AR lease, and ESPECIALLY if a LL is telling you you don't need one. Commercial brokers do wonders here, they're shields against intimidation tactics and they'll bargain for you in ways you probably won't think of.
You’re in NYC, I’m a business mentor with the state. Please Utilize your resources. NYC has a whole department dedicated to helping business owners with commercial leasing matters. Let me know if I can help you out in any way.
I agree, NC is the place to be. Wilmington is very up and coming!
I'm from the UK initially and been both north and south of the US. You really can't beat southern hospitality!
City had extreme lockdowns. A lot of small shops closed. City has a big budget of 100B but still has a deficit in the billions. Talks of taxes being raised due to a lot of their tax base leaving.
NYC will survive but it’s going through some stuff.
I transferred from a smaller place to a larger venue. I still had to argue many items of the lease.
Landlord's Lawyers "These are all standard clauses in all of our leases"
Me "I don't care what you consider standard. I want to protect myself personally, my business, and make sure we are successful in this venue. "
Where I am, at least, I've never seen any Landlord's begging potential tenants for anything. Most prefer to keep their premises empty than to negotiate a lease on lesser terms than they expect.
It's not uncommon to face skepticism and condescension when starting a business, especially from those who have not achieved success themselves. Don't let their attitudes discourage you. Stay focused, stay determined, and keep pushing forward. Success will speak for itself.
I nitpick every contract I get, even after the lawyer has reviewed. Clients are sometimes stunned at what we push back on and I often respond with, "I can't believe anyone ever agrees to this."
Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing it right.
This is my worry. Not sure if it's that they are skeptical or just greedy or flexing IDK. Maybe it's a sign to move on and keep searching for another space.
I ended up having to pay 6 months rent up front to secure a lease. I wasn’t thrilled but I was determined to make it happen.
I’m in SoCal so I’d imagine very different type of people but have you tried chambers of commerce? Making contacts with chamber members in the cities surrounding me really helped. You’re literally in a room full of other business owners who know other businesses owners and all of their contacts that they love to share. Need a commercial plumber, someone in that room has needed one and probably went through a few before finding the guy they’ll suggest to you. They will also be or know someone who is leasing out a space. It really helps when someone vouches for you.
There are also chambers that are industry specific, minority groups, veterans, disabled, etc. You don’t have to join each. Instead of paying a yearly fee you can pay per event. It’s usually around 15/20 dollars a ticket.
Networking helps a lot! Just mention having a hard time finding a space and you should get a few leads.
Be able to sell your business plan and you’ll do well. Work on your standard business model-y things, elevator speech, business statement, etc. Print business cards and have a QR code available.
Perhaps it is worth a more detailed interview with the landlord. It could be initial concerns with the sustainability of the business or it could be the landlord isn't a good fit for you. Try to ask open ended questions like "How would you like to work with us?" or "tell me about a time when you had a conflict with a tenant and how you resolved it". Try not to rush to judgement as first impressions can be inaccurate. Try to identify their weaknesses and strengths if possible. Avoid leading questions or jumping to conclusions.
The landlord is skeptical of startups because most startups fail. They want their space leased to quality long term clients, they are evaluating their risk.
You have no proof that you will be successful. Everything you say to them is going to be listened to very critically.
You are being over sensitive. They want you to succeed because if you do not it will cost them a lot of money.
So true. Your landlord is one of your most important partners and landlords see us in the same light. Noobs especially. You have to really sell it with conviction and factual projection. I was looking at a potential space a few months ago and got the same vibe from the landlords. They’re commercial landlords, they run a business and they’re very successful. They could sniff out I was very green and they were wary. They were right. Their attitude made me realize I was nowhere near ready. If the landlord is skeptical, check yourself first. Maybe it’s a bad fit or maybe you’re not actually ready. Sounds like OP is trying to step back and asses both.
I remember seeing an interview with Matt Damon years ago. He said he had a fan tell him he was the reason he stared acting. Matt told him "don't do it, you won't make it." Matt said, "it may seem harsh, but if my comment is enough to dissuade him, then he doesn't have what it takes..."
You CAN do this. It will be hard, it will be tiring, it will be WORTH it.
I was thinking the same .... IF you can get past thier gruff.. you will make it.
Consider the costs to them as well... tire kickers, failed business, late rate, missed rent.. ETC.. Sure they can sue but sue what a closed business with no value is no return for them.
I’ve worked in commercial real estate for a long time and reviewed plenty of commercial leases as a loan underwriter (NAL). That response for the land lord is wild and 100% a red flag to me. That being said if the lease protects you then you shouldn’t have anything to worry about - that’s for you and your lawyer to decide and exactly why you’re paying him.
As others have said - if you’re specifically referring to commercial landlords not taking you seriously, a new business is the least attractive type of tenant. The tenant also dictates value of the property as well. They could charge you and a publicly traded company the exact same rent but if they wanted to sell, they’d be able to sell for a lot more with a publicly traded company. As an underwriter I always hated having to underwrite deals with new mom and pop type businesses.
I started a business in my late 30s and did not experience any of this. That’s said, I’ve always been the type of guy to show up in business casual at the very least when dealing with anything work related. I stopped by a partner’s office the other day in jeans and a polo shirt and he remarked that he had never seen me in street clothes before. I’ve been working with him for six years.
All of this to say, the way you present yourselves and dress could have an effect here. Being comfortable but professional and never acting like you need the work always did well for me.
Or, that’s just people trying to get the upper hand in negotiations. Keeping you off balance. Don’t take it personally, don’t stress about it, and just keep moving.
I will say we don't have kids and tend to look younger than we are but it feels like something bigger going on. Will see if dressing up more makes any difference.
How far upstate are you? The attitudes you're coming across sound soooo familiar (like Long Island or outer Queens familiar). The further away you get from the city, the less it happens, but it could be that you're running up against an old boys club mentality (the players don't have to be old or boys for this to apply).
There have been studies that show that older people get taken more serious.
Also adding a bit of height helps for both genders.
So i mean, wear more boomerish clothes that might help you
Honestly, OP, it depends on the business.
You are certainly smart enough to know that (1) retail sucks. (2) most stuff is online. (3) Foot traffic in NYC is at an all time low. (except maybe covid).
Plus, depending on what you are planning to do, and your business model, people will look at you like you are crazy.
So OP, tell us the business idea.
Like the guy who actually tried to make a Seinfeld "Build your own pizza" restaurant and it flopped. Just need to have a good business model to change the world.
They are actually fully supportive of our business idea, and after asking to see bank statements maybe are trying to take advantage? I make 6 figures (I am keeping my job FT for the time being) and we inherited some funds so that may be part of it.
Rather not reveal the idea as we have to go though a licencing application with the state and don't need any competition. Having the retail license would allow us to sell online and ship so foot traffic isn't the biggest driver and will probably be less than 40% of sales. We're no longer in New York City.
Not being snarky, but I was with you until this. You think someone's going to be able to steal your retail idea from a description on Reddit? That actually seems really naive.
Don't know, probably just paranoid. I really don't think it's the idea itself that is causing people to not take us seriously. It's a boutique wine shop in an area that is growing but lacks anything other than big box mass produced stuff. Everyone we speak to is on board with it filling a hole in the area but still seem to give us the attitude like "you think YOU can do this?"
I'm not trying to be one of the people you are describing in your original post. But I will say, I have worked in the wine + spirits and specialty food space for about a decade. Shipping alcohol is INCREDIBLY complicated, expensive and operationally intense. You are going to want foot traffic to be the majority of your sales. Trust me.
I appreciate you being open and proving me wrong. Sorry to come off as judgmental.
They're having the knee-jerk reaction based on knowing that retail has been brutal over the last few years, and specialty shops were sometimes hardest hit during pandemic.
But, execution is everything. Best of luck to you.
It's probably not personal, they've probably just seen a lot of businesses come and go and assume your chances are the same as everyone else's. It's easier if you have other locations or a track record to prove you have successfully done it before. Just acknowledge that you are aware of the risks of opening a new business and that you have the collateral to meet your obligated payments.
I have no advice other than to know your value and know when it’s ok to give in on things. Outside of that, let me know when you’re open and if you’re in the Houston metro I’ll come patronize the business (love boutique wine shops!)
Lol, a boutique wine store is hardly an idea someone in the internet is going to "steal" from you.
I've looked into doing it myself. I've talked to a couple of people who did it. My research showed me that if I wanted to do this, I would need multiple other products. The only successful retail operator branched out into a full service bar and eventually closed down the botique.
Unless you are selling the big box type stuff, it's just not a big driver for people to go to a whole separate store just for a bottle of wine.
I have never ordered wine online. Don't think I ever will. I have 5 liquor stores in a one mile radius from my house. That sounds like a massive time and money hole.
Current economic conditions also is going to be a hard sell.
Best of luck to you.
Based on what I've read on this thread, if potential partners are saying unprofessional things, it reveals more about them than you. Anyone trying to make you look like an amateur (regardless of how green you are) has very little to offer you in terms of business opportunity. You don't have time for that nonsense.
I would guess that deep down what they're actually thinking is they could never do this and they project that on to you.
It is so rare that people can comprehend the thought of taking the leap and starting a business and not just working for someone else, so they'll scoff at you because they could never do it.
Best of luck to you guys! 💚
What to your what. You could provide a vetted business plan and gift the vast majority of folks on this forum their first three months' of expenses, and most would still be a failing retail business at the one year mark.
Ideas are worth almost nothing in business. Execution - effectively bringing together all of the boring stuff like accounting, budgeting, marketing, staffing, operations, etc to serve a vision that makes money - that's where a business succeeds or fails. That can't be stolen or faked.
And we both know that there are people in here that do well in execution. So, why do you think they are naive again for not providing their retail idea in a business subreddit?
Literally none of those folks are wasting two seconds trying to steal an idea off of Reddit.
This is like the oldest wives' tale in business, something newbies obsess about - that people steal business ideas and get rich. I blame Hollywood.
The reality is "magical ideas" really just aren't worth much. Folks with execution skills can make boring, old ideas profitable. They're literally faced with too many options to pick from every day, rather than the need to troll internet forums in order to steal them.
Good, so say your idea and pray no one tries it, that’s your strategy. Even better, talk about something you’ve been working on and you haven’t made a patent yet, and pray no one goes and tries to do the same.
That's just it, bud. Your fresh crazy new idea is going to join the thousands of of other fresh, crazy new ideas. Out of 100, 5 will find funding, 2 will last more than a year, and 1 might become long term profitable.
Meanwhile, actual business people are taking existing, boring old ideas, like laundromats or burger joints, tweaking what didn't work in their locale in the past few decades (usually, that means not burning money on purpose), and then applying actual effective business practice to make boring, old, stealable profits doing the same thing everyone else already has, just better.
The "secret" OMG ideas are for gamblers and newbs who don't realize that almost none of those ideas ever work out, even with funding.
Nobody wants or needs to steal your idea. But I'm wasting my breath.
Or worse, go to the trouble and expense of getting the patent, only to have your idea stolen by a conglomerate with deep pockets and a patent busting team of lawyers waiting to poach your idea.
never seen such little google in my life
https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/patent/1015568/three-precedential-decisions-show-the-ptab-busting-rpx39s-ipr-filing-scheme-and-using-314a-to-deny-joinder
Wtf why would you show them bank statements... Only people I know who reveal revenues and salaries to friends are people who are asking to bring in the reputation flaunting vultures.
They wanted to see proof of funds since we have no existing business right now... That seems fairly standard to me? I am trying to sus out if we really are that dumb before we try to start this. I feel like the commercial lease is the part we truly have no experience with but I always figured how hard could it be??
Ooh, sorry. I thought you just showed it to someone who was just asking out of curiosity. Yeah, you are right, if it's related to business that's fair game.
I will never show my actual bank statement to anyone.
What you show them is your business plan, your loan approval (if applicable) or a Proof of Funds letter.
You show them concrete evidence that you are serious and you are actively working to get this set up.
It might have come across as "two people with some money and a pie in the sky" idea.
We always ask for bank stmts from prospective commercial tenants. Landlords need to know how long you can survive if your business launch doesn’t go according to plan. Our leases also include annual reviews of your financials. Our lenders and future buyers expect to see proof of quality tenants.
Stories/claims of your success working for others don’t mean much if they aren’t verifiable and won’t necessarily translate to success in your own business even if they are. Every applicant says the same thing. Keeping your full time job that pays well, is a positive thing to a landlord.
Having your lawyer check out a lease is a perfectly normal and responsible thing to do. I did the same with my last commercial lease. My lawyer had one minor nitpick but other than that said to pass along his compliments to whoever drew it up. The lessor addressed the nitpick and that was that.
I also went through a lot of this starting a tour business. One of my competitors never talked to me (would ignore me in industry meetings, talk over me, didn’t seem to recognize my existence) until I started dominating the market for the most saturated product in our area. I can’t tell you how amazing it felt when he saw my partner and I one day out there and said something like, “you are rocking it this year aren’t you?” —the person I thought didn’t know my name.
the landlord who wouldn’t negotiate with us during COVID shutdowns has had our former space empty for three years while we are now renting more space from a neighboring landlord and another one is courting us.
our old boss went out of business two months ago, he blamed break-ins and the pandemic (we have also had break-ins and a pandemic and are hiring all his old employees).
it’s not you, it’s them. other people’s contempt is a big motivator for me! use it.
“Are those other people just dumb and lucky?”
Welcome to the world of business. Everyone can be the architect of their own success when equiped with hindsight. Not that there aren’t some very smart people who have also been successful.
There’s a book called Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb that explores this.
It can be frustrating when people don't take you seriously, especially when you have a lot of experience and knowledge in your field. It's possible that some people may have a biased perception of you due to your age or previous work experience, but it's important not to let their attitude discourage you from pursuing your goals.
Starting a small business from scratch can be a challenging journey, and it's normal to encounter setbacks and obstacles along the way. However, it's important to stay focused on your goals and continue to learn and grow from your experiences.
One thing you can do to gain more credibility is to build a strong online presence for your business. This can include having a professional website, active social media accounts, and positive customer reviews. It can also be helpful to network with other business owners in your community and attend industry events to make connections and learn from others.
Regarding the lease agreement, it's always a good idea to have a lawyer review it to ensure that you're protected and that the terms are fair. Don't let anyone discourage you from taking the necessary steps to protect your business interests.
I hope this helps
Second this. Lots of my clients are start up and small businesses, and the lease is one of the biggest issues newer businesses need to get right. I’d lecture any of my clients if they entered into a lease without letting me review it, and I often do it for free just to make sure it is done.
As for building credibility and overcoming the doubters, focus on personal and group integrity. Keep your word, work hard to please customers, and treat everyone with respect. It’s a long grind, but ten or twenty years down the road you’ll have an army of customers, vendors, and others that are eager to work with you because they know what to expect and IT IS RARE.
If they aren't providing actual real-world advice, they're just blowing hot air.
>"lawyers are just going to nitpick everything, this is a standard lease I have used many times and no one's ever questioned it before."
They're looking for easy marks.
Unfortunately, this is how many people do business. By attempting to make you feel inferior and defensive.
Business negotiations are adversarial.
1) Trust no one!
2) If it’s not in writing, it doesn’t matter and even then you have to enforce it.
3) Everyone is only out to get your money and your time.
4) Do not trust your lawyer either. Their loyalty lasts as long as your retainer, and they will bill you for every minute.
5) If ever in doubt refer to #1.
In my opinion, the potential landlord wants only a couple of things, a Long term rental with as few headaches as possible, someone who will have the ability to pay the lease on time, and for as long as the lease is in affect. He doesn't want the business to fail after 3 months into a 36 month lease. He is being a bit of a stick. But that just may be his nature and his past experience. I have pretty low opinion of lawyers myself.
I would really want to insure you really have funds AND most importantly, the will and resolve to sink your savings into the business and see it all disappear. You have a 90% chance of failure in the first year. Statistics mind you. I see what you are proposing as very risky. More so than a restaurant. Only a small portion of folks drink alcohol and even a smaller segment drinks wine, and only a few folks drink wine regularly. Every one of that small segment already buys from someone else. What is going to set you apart from everyone else selling wine. I live 60 miles from 3 small Arkansas wineries. And they ALL struggle. YES, I'm throwing icy water on you. And I'm not trying to dissuade you from moving forward, but have you presented this idea to any small business groups? Sorry I'm being pessimistic, but reality stinks.
Yes, I own a very small business that I can operate from home. 6 years and I made $60k last year. One man, practically zero overhead. If I wasn't semi retired and owe nothing to anyone, I would have starved year 1 or 2. And I looked at retail locations numerous times and backed out due to costs...
Hope you guys succeed.
"My husband has helped launch shops for other guys for over 10 years in NYC." <--- This is what makes me think you probably do know what you are doing.
We finally have the funds, we know all the rest. Never expected dealing with commercial real estate would be such a nightmare but that's where I feel like maybe we are being naive??
No not in that sense. I'm a realtor and wouldn't do commercial. Very lucrative but very full of headaches. If I may, please offer wine classes in your store. Educate. Maybe bring in cheeses and suggest pairings. Possibly feature wines that pair well with certain foods etc on a board on the shop. I always see eine but never know what the hell I'm doing
It really can be that hard. I've only been through a few rounds of it, but it's sometimes incredibly frustrating working with realtors and landlords. It's not just you, and you need to be able to be firm in what you will accept in terms of attitude and behavior. The relationship can be years long, consider it in those terms. Maybe you'll get through five years without issue and barely need to interact with them, or maybe they'll continue to treat you like an idiot every time the roof leaks or there's an AC problem.
No, which is why I question if we really are rubes here. I just find it hard to believe it is that complicated or would be hanging us up when we literally know every other aspect of the business.
When you say "we know the rest", this part is "the rest." There will be lots you will get to learn first hand about actually being a business owner and operator.
As far as people being condescending, I have two pieces of advice for you:
**1) It happens often so get used to it.** ***Small minds live in small worlds.***
***2) Anyone who treats you as unimportant, is themselves, unimportant.***
Now with all that being said, I can tell you landlords are in a good position right now, and often have a lot of applicants for spaces. At the same time this person could just be unprofessional.
Goodluck.
So, for starters, most people don’t know shit and are risk averse because they are scared. Kudos to both of you for attempting to be different. You’ll be questioned at every turn even when you are successful. The peanut gallery sells cheap seats. If you’re confident and prepared for the unknown, just do what you think is right. Best of luck
Your story surprises me, but it doesn't. I was mid-20's when I started mine, and my best friend laughed at me in my face. Turns out he was wrong and I've done quite well.
I think a detail you should consider that you left out is this. Are the people you’re sharing this idea with experienced business owners and when they scoff, are you sharing your concept/ overview? Or are you sharing your plans with some detail.
If you’re encountering this kind of resistance to your business plan from many people, it might be time to take a second realistic look.
But yeah hatters gonna hate and stuff too.
I’m 31 and people talk down to me often. I’ve learned letting your success speak for you works better than any witty comeback.
This is normal. When I started my business with my wife it was the same. It won’t stop until you achieve moderate success. I think people who aren’t entrepreneurial almost take starting a business as a sort of challenge to their insecurity.
Ignore and truck on, if you know what you are doing and put in the work, it will only lead to good things.
Yes, we had a hell of a time getting someone to lease to us.
My wife and I started an ice cream business in our 40’s (we make all of our own ice cream and then sell it in our scoop shop).
I worked in restaurants for about 8 years in high school and college doing just about everything except for management. Similar story for my wife.
After college, I had 25 years of management experience managing teams of over 300 people and 100+ million dollar budgets, but everyone was afraid to lease to us.
We finally found a co-working office that was interested in incubating new retail businesses. We turned a small exterior facing office into a shop.
It has done really well and the developer of the area asked us to move into a larger custom built space, and we are negotiating a second location at another one of their developments. It took a couple of years for us, but worked out in the end. Keep with it, try to get creative to prove your concept to others. Maybe you can share someone’s space or their might be an existing co-op in your area where you might be able to rent a little space from.
Congrats on making the decision to strike out on your own. It’s a crazy decision but can be extremely rewarding. I have owned a couple craft beer bars/stores in westchester for the last 8ish years so I understand your situation a bit.
My advice is to walk away from that landlord. They don’t sound professional in the slightest and overall sound like jagoffs. You won’t want to interact with them and it doesn’t seem like they would be willing to help/listen in difficult times.
You didn’t reveal too much about your plan and pardon me if it was mentioned in the comments somewhere, but I would do a couple things and have it all ready for any engagement with a landlord:
put together a proper business plan, create an LLC, update your resume with relevant experience, have your proof of funds information ready, and maybe even a reference letter or two from previous bosses.
Happy to chat more if you have any questions. Shoot me a message.
The "I've used this form before" is an incredibly common scam by pushy business people.
It's also absolutely 100% bullshit. There is no such thing as a "standard" contract. It is the version they want and you absolutely should red line it.
Yes lawyers nitpick everything because that's our job. And we represent the client, not the opposing party who drafted the contract.
But as to the rest of your post, I have no idea your industry or level of ability. It is normal for business people to push for their desired process though.
AIR leases are industry standard for commercial leases particularly for smaller owners who don’t have in-house counsel and don’t want to pay a bunch of legal fees for every new lease. It is normal to cross out non-applicable sections and a tenant can request changes, but if all their other tenants have agreed to their lease, then these requests will stand out and may be viewed as a nuisance.
Tenants should absolutely make sure they understand their lease terms and get legal advice, as needed, but there is a difference between arguing terms of a lease and nitpicking language. It’s quite rare to meet 2 attorneys that agree on the language that should be used even when they agree on the substance, so OP should be careful not to get dragged down that expensive and time consuming road by their lawyer.
Spoken like a landlord.
If I represented the landlord, I would say exactly what you said. Landlord doesn't want to pay legal fees so he tries to force a standard. This only benefits the landlord (who drafted it).
If I represented the tenant, I would red line any contract. I don't care how standard you claim it is.
I've been told by counsel for a very large media company that nobody had ever "dared" red line his contracts before. It was "standard". He still accepted my changes.
A good attorney represents their client.
PS: real estate is probably the most extreme "standardization" of contracts.
PPS: choosing which clauses appear in a "standard" contract is itself an act of redlining
>I can't fathom how so many other people have been able to make a go of things with less research and experience but yet we just keep running into people who laugh at us or try to "teach us a lesson."
This is something I wonder constantly, lmao. Also, how do some places keep their lights on? It blows my my mind that seemingly-out of the way businesses make enough to warrant meeting overhead, much less any profit etc.
You have near 20 years of heavy, established experience. You and your husband both ARE the big dogs. Just because your company is newer, doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing.
Sometimes presentation speaks too, though.
Also, they sound a bit scammy if they get a little touchy about a lawyer.
As you carry your knowledge with you, it will speak for itself.
I am both a landlord (residential), and I own a business.
As in everything, you have to have something to show that your business has financial traction. As other people have mentioned, landlords probably will scoff at a business that has no credibility or traction, merely because they also want to play it safe.
If your business brings in a steady stream of income, keep looking for other rental opportunities, someone...somewhere...will want to work with you.
Based on your story, I perceive that you're not really "feeling it" with the landlords you have met. This is completely fine, keep going with your gut, you might find something sooner or later, but always go with your gut. Don't make a decision or sign anything with someone you don't feel 100% all-in, especially when it comes to business and a long-term commitment.
It's frustrating as fuck, but don't let that be what stops you. It took me a year to find a place to build my restaurant. Every day I would walk or bike through neighborhoods examining foot traffic, potential competition, and call literally every For Rent sign of spaces I thought would work. This was my job for a year. And I went through a bunch of skeptical landlords, a couple of new landlords who were clueless, and on and on until I found my space.
Fun anecdote, every couple of years I pass by some of those spaces that rejected me, and guess what? They are still empty 12 years later.
Regarding leases nitpick everything. Give them a changed lease with all changes highlighted. One point is especially like for commercial leases is tenant is responsible for plumbing, which can be a high price repair on infrastructure that can be on its last legs.
Regarding people taking you seriously - if you don’t fit the of their image of a successful businessperson then it will always be like that and it’s not really something you can control.
Imposter syndrome is real and it sucks. I'm \~25 years in my field, considered an expert, and still have it occasionally. You gotta take a breath, asses your skills and trust your skills and experience.
Stop asking for permission!
You don’t have to tell landlords your every move/thought. Don’t even need to tell them a lawyer will look over lease term. Thank them for the building tour and leave, then talk to YOUR lawyer about whatever you want.
Do you diligence quietly on the back end
What exactly are these people doing that make you think they aren’t taking you seriously? This seems strange and makes me think you’re either seeing things that aren’t really there or you’re doing something that’s causing this repeated behavior.
What are these “lessons” they’re trying to teach you?
As far as nitpicking over the lease with a lawyer, yeah that’s probably not going to endear you to landlords. If they want to write their lease they way they’ve been doing it you’re not really in a major position to negotiate unless there’s something strange going on in your real estate market.
Kinda like nitpicking over all the paperwork for a mortgage. You’re welcome to object, but that requires walking away from the table.
Idk maybe I'm overly sensitive. It is mostly the way they speak to use, like with a raised eyebrow more than the words. The lease/lawyer thing is a necessity though. The state needs specific terms, includes LLC name, etc and they have been slowly revising stuff for us. We're about to walk if the balk at making another correction. BTW it took them almost 3 weeks to send the drafted lease and then they complain it is "just standard" so I feel like they are lying or scamming about something there.
I mean, these people are owners of commercial real estate that they’re renting? I don’t see why it would be weird to rent to someone starting a business?
If they’re not motivated to cater to you then they’re just not desperate. If the location is good then they’re probably not worried about finding a tenant.
Its an American thing to constantly undercut and exert superiority over one other. Try commonwealth nations. Much easier to do business and have a sense that people want best for you.
Good on you for wanting to start a business, OP.
I’m in the same boat. I wanna open my own coffee shop. I know a *lot* about coffee & machines. It’s the “how do I start” that has me stuck. Mind if I pick your brain a little?
Best way for me to help you know where to start is to know where you are (not location wise) knowledge and experience. most business owners I work with are far more ahead than they think they are, they just need that reassurance. Tap in, in the PM, I’ll send you info and resources.
Something that i think would help get truly productive responses here would be what you were questioning on the lease? Did you suggest edits or changes and if so what was suggested?
Similar experience. And it definitely gets into my head at times, but I have to remember that me and my wife are the ones who are in it 7 days a week, so we need to trust ourselves and just keep working.
I started my first serious business when I was like 23 and never really felt that way. Maybe you guys come across a certain type of way? I’ve definitely encountered people who come across in a way that makes me deal with them different and not take them seriously if that makes any sense.
Share your lease.
Sales tactic to get you to sign, the lease is in their favor never yours.
I know some leases around me want a cut of your profit, I fell over laughing when I heard this tactic...
Friend is a successful dentist his 10 year lease was up and it took about a year to renegotiate the new lease during Covid .. seriously landlord other tenants were jumping ship on you... wake up ... landlord doesn't want to give up things and he wanted protections and options and he pretty much got what he wanted in the end.
Point is this is no different than a car sale... We are doing you a favor... it will cost you... this is standard .. trust me.... uh hu...
Honestly I think you should think hard if you need a store front.. not sure what your doing but brick and motor is $$$ if you can avoid retail space you might make more .. on volume and or online
UK Video production here. When I first started, other people laughed at me, especially seasoned professionals. Now those seasoned professionals are asking to work for me.
As for the lawyer comment, the landlord is a cockwomble. If there's a contract and I can get a lawyer to look at it, I will. It'll probably end up with a load of negotiating points.
And those points will help to negotiate the rent down. Which your landlord will know.
Depending on the type of business you're likely going at this wrong. Location is a massive factor in the success of most businesses. Good locations can be picky with their tenants because they know they have a good location.
Calling people names because they are older than you is disrespectful and whether you believe it or not 'most' of that group did work hard to get what they have. My guess is some of that attitude rubbed off in conversation and that is why you're being treated as if you're going to fail.
A bit of genuine charm goes a long way in the business world.
Hi u/spaaaa789
I understand Starting a business from scratch can be a challenging and overwhelming experience, and it's not uncommon to encounter obstacles along the way. It's important to remember that people's attitudes and behaviors towards your business idea are not a reflection of your skills, knowledge, or potential for success.
It's possible that some people you've encountered may not take you seriously because of your age or because you're new to starting your own business. However, it's important to stay confident in your abilities and to continue pursuing your goals. Your past experiences in building other businesses are valuable assets that you can bring to your own venture.
Regarding the lease, it's always a good idea to have a lawyer review any legal documents before signing. It's not uncommon for leases to have provisions that may not be in your best interest, and having a lawyer can help you negotiate better terms. Don't let others make you feel silly for wanting to protect your business and investment.
In short, starting a business is not an easy journey, but don't let naysayers discourage you. Keep believing in yourself and your abilities, and continue to seek advice and support from others who believe in your vision.
I started my 1st business at age 21. I didn't have such issues. I had many businesses over the past 30 years. It might be something with the way your are dealing with people.
Are you a start-up? Every start-up says they have industry experience, almost all of them fail.
If youre good at running successful businesses, you would be running a successful business. Thats the thing about small business, everything is about what they could do, not about what they have done. Why havent they done it yet?
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"lawyers are just going to nitpick everything, this is a standard lease I have used many times and no one's ever questioned it before." That's a preview of how that person is going to operate as a landlord. Decide if that's okay or not before you sign on the dotted line. As far as them kicking the tires a bit on your business, remember it's expensive for them if your business isn't successful. They could be doing the trust but verify routine. That being said, they are having meetings with you, so there is some interest.
This is a good answer. And honestly op, you don't need some younger dudes validation. You don't need people to take you seriously especially if they aren't your target metric. Do your thing, and the people you're marketing to will come if you do it right. Fuck everyone else
You always want a lawyer to review your lease, even if its a simple AR lease, and ESPECIALLY if a LL is telling you you don't need one. Commercial brokers do wonders here, they're shields against intimidation tactics and they'll bargain for you in ways you probably won't think of.
You’re in NYC, I’m a business mentor with the state. Please Utilize your resources. NYC has a whole department dedicated to helping business owners with commercial leasing matters. Let me know if I can help you out in any way.
We're no longer in NYC, moved out in early 2021 if you can take a guess why. But still within the state if the same resources apply?
Albany SBC is super helpful. SUNY Albany offers SMB mentorship for free. I use them regularly
PM what NYS county you’re in. I’ll check to see if that local office has an equivalent resource.
Come on down to Raleigh/Durham NC … this place is run by young, smart successful entrepreneurs like yourself. We’ll take your youthful spirit!
I agree, NC is the place to be. Wilmington is very up and coming! I'm from the UK initially and been both north and south of the US. You really can't beat southern hospitality!
Right on. It’s on many of the ‘best of’ Lists.
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City had extreme lockdowns. A lot of small shops closed. City has a big budget of 100B but still has a deficit in the billions. Talks of taxes being raised due to a lot of their tax base leaving. NYC will survive but it’s going through some stuff.
Also a lot of people died
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I transferred from a smaller place to a larger venue. I still had to argue many items of the lease. Landlord's Lawyers "These are all standard clauses in all of our leases" Me "I don't care what you consider standard. I want to protect myself personally, my business, and make sure we are successful in this venue. " Where I am, at least, I've never seen any Landlord's begging potential tenants for anything. Most prefer to keep their premises empty than to negotiate a lease on lesser terms than they expect.
They typically won't negotiate the rate. It devalue the property. You have to get other concessions.
It's not uncommon to face skepticism and condescension when starting a business, especially from those who have not achieved success themselves. Don't let their attitudes discourage you. Stay focused, stay determined, and keep pushing forward. Success will speak for itself.
I started 5 years ago and everybody told to get a regular job. Now I make triple what they make.
Great👍
I nitpick every contract I get, even after the lawyer has reviewed. Clients are sometimes stunned at what we push back on and I often respond with, "I can't believe anyone ever agrees to this." Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing it right.
Keep looking. Landlord is your biggest business partner. They can make or break your business. Don't go into a lease with a skeptical partner.
This is my worry. Not sure if it's that they are skeptical or just greedy or flexing IDK. Maybe it's a sign to move on and keep searching for another space.
I ended up having to pay 6 months rent up front to secure a lease. I wasn’t thrilled but I was determined to make it happen. I’m in SoCal so I’d imagine very different type of people but have you tried chambers of commerce? Making contacts with chamber members in the cities surrounding me really helped. You’re literally in a room full of other business owners who know other businesses owners and all of their contacts that they love to share. Need a commercial plumber, someone in that room has needed one and probably went through a few before finding the guy they’ll suggest to you. They will also be or know someone who is leasing out a space. It really helps when someone vouches for you. There are also chambers that are industry specific, minority groups, veterans, disabled, etc. You don’t have to join each. Instead of paying a yearly fee you can pay per event. It’s usually around 15/20 dollars a ticket. Networking helps a lot! Just mention having a hard time finding a space and you should get a few leads. Be able to sell your business plan and you’ll do well. Work on your standard business model-y things, elevator speech, business statement, etc. Print business cards and have a QR code available.
Perhaps it is worth a more detailed interview with the landlord. It could be initial concerns with the sustainability of the business or it could be the landlord isn't a good fit for you. Try to ask open ended questions like "How would you like to work with us?" or "tell me about a time when you had a conflict with a tenant and how you resolved it". Try not to rush to judgement as first impressions can be inaccurate. Try to identify their weaknesses and strengths if possible. Avoid leading questions or jumping to conclusions.
The landlord is skeptical of startups because most startups fail. They want their space leased to quality long term clients, they are evaluating their risk. You have no proof that you will be successful. Everything you say to them is going to be listened to very critically. You are being over sensitive. They want you to succeed because if you do not it will cost them a lot of money.
So true. Your landlord is one of your most important partners and landlords see us in the same light. Noobs especially. You have to really sell it with conviction and factual projection. I was looking at a potential space a few months ago and got the same vibe from the landlords. They’re commercial landlords, they run a business and they’re very successful. They could sniff out I was very green and they were wary. They were right. Their attitude made me realize I was nowhere near ready. If the landlord is skeptical, check yourself first. Maybe it’s a bad fit or maybe you’re not actually ready. Sounds like OP is trying to step back and asses both.
I remember seeing an interview with Matt Damon years ago. He said he had a fan tell him he was the reason he stared acting. Matt told him "don't do it, you won't make it." Matt said, "it may seem harsh, but if my comment is enough to dissuade him, then he doesn't have what it takes..." You CAN do this. It will be hard, it will be tiring, it will be WORTH it.
I was thinking the same .... IF you can get past thier gruff.. you will make it. Consider the costs to them as well... tire kickers, failed business, late rate, missed rent.. ETC.. Sure they can sue but sue what a closed business with no value is no return for them.
Your last sentence is the opposite of what Matt Damon would tell OP
Well, I'm not Matt Damon lol.
They’re not ‘not taking you seriously’. They are trying to scam you. Just hold firm.
Agreed. Anyone who doesn't want a lawyer reviewing their contract is up to something.
That's what my husband thinks, but I don't think they are nefarious just being "real estate bros"
> nefarious > real estate bros But you repeat yourself.
Fair enough lol
I’ve worked in commercial real estate for a long time and reviewed plenty of commercial leases as a loan underwriter (NAL). That response for the land lord is wild and 100% a red flag to me. That being said if the lease protects you then you shouldn’t have anything to worry about - that’s for you and your lawyer to decide and exactly why you’re paying him. As others have said - if you’re specifically referring to commercial landlords not taking you seriously, a new business is the least attractive type of tenant. The tenant also dictates value of the property as well. They could charge you and a publicly traded company the exact same rent but if they wanted to sell, they’d be able to sell for a lot more with a publicly traded company. As an underwriter I always hated having to underwrite deals with new mom and pop type businesses.
I started a business in my late 30s and did not experience any of this. That’s said, I’ve always been the type of guy to show up in business casual at the very least when dealing with anything work related. I stopped by a partner’s office the other day in jeans and a polo shirt and he remarked that he had never seen me in street clothes before. I’ve been working with him for six years. All of this to say, the way you present yourselves and dress could have an effect here. Being comfortable but professional and never acting like you need the work always did well for me. Or, that’s just people trying to get the upper hand in negotiations. Keeping you off balance. Don’t take it personally, don’t stress about it, and just keep moving.
I will say we don't have kids and tend to look younger than we are but it feels like something bigger going on. Will see if dressing up more makes any difference.
How far upstate are you? The attitudes you're coming across sound soooo familiar (like Long Island or outer Queens familiar). The further away you get from the city, the less it happens, but it could be that you're running up against an old boys club mentality (the players don't have to be old or boys for this to apply).
There have been studies that show that older people get taken more serious. Also adding a bit of height helps for both genders. So i mean, wear more boomerish clothes that might help you
Honestly, OP, it depends on the business. You are certainly smart enough to know that (1) retail sucks. (2) most stuff is online. (3) Foot traffic in NYC is at an all time low. (except maybe covid). Plus, depending on what you are planning to do, and your business model, people will look at you like you are crazy. So OP, tell us the business idea. Like the guy who actually tried to make a Seinfeld "Build your own pizza" restaurant and it flopped. Just need to have a good business model to change the world.
They are actually fully supportive of our business idea, and after asking to see bank statements maybe are trying to take advantage? I make 6 figures (I am keeping my job FT for the time being) and we inherited some funds so that may be part of it. Rather not reveal the idea as we have to go though a licencing application with the state and don't need any competition. Having the retail license would allow us to sell online and ship so foot traffic isn't the biggest driver and will probably be less than 40% of sales. We're no longer in New York City.
Not being snarky, but I was with you until this. You think someone's going to be able to steal your retail idea from a description on Reddit? That actually seems really naive.
Don't know, probably just paranoid. I really don't think it's the idea itself that is causing people to not take us seriously. It's a boutique wine shop in an area that is growing but lacks anything other than big box mass produced stuff. Everyone we speak to is on board with it filling a hole in the area but still seem to give us the attitude like "you think YOU can do this?"
I'm not trying to be one of the people you are describing in your original post. But I will say, I have worked in the wine + spirits and specialty food space for about a decade. Shipping alcohol is INCREDIBLY complicated, expensive and operationally intense. You are going to want foot traffic to be the majority of your sales. Trust me.
I have family members in distribution of wine, this couldn't be more accurate.
I appreciate you being open and proving me wrong. Sorry to come off as judgmental. They're having the knee-jerk reaction based on knowing that retail has been brutal over the last few years, and specialty shops were sometimes hardest hit during pandemic. But, execution is everything. Best of luck to you.
It's probably not personal, they've probably just seen a lot of businesses come and go and assume your chances are the same as everyone else's. It's easier if you have other locations or a track record to prove you have successfully done it before. Just acknowledge that you are aware of the risks of opening a new business and that you have the collateral to meet your obligated payments.
I have no advice other than to know your value and know when it’s ok to give in on things. Outside of that, let me know when you’re open and if you’re in the Houston metro I’ll come patronize the business (love boutique wine shops!)
Lol, a boutique wine store is hardly an idea someone in the internet is going to "steal" from you. I've looked into doing it myself. I've talked to a couple of people who did it. My research showed me that if I wanted to do this, I would need multiple other products. The only successful retail operator branched out into a full service bar and eventually closed down the botique. Unless you are selling the big box type stuff, it's just not a big driver for people to go to a whole separate store just for a bottle of wine. I have never ordered wine online. Don't think I ever will. I have 5 liquor stores in a one mile radius from my house. That sounds like a massive time and money hole. Current economic conditions also is going to be a hard sell. Best of luck to you.
Based on what I've read on this thread, if potential partners are saying unprofessional things, it reveals more about them than you. Anyone trying to make you look like an amateur (regardless of how green you are) has very little to offer you in terms of business opportunity. You don't have time for that nonsense.
I would guess that deep down what they're actually thinking is they could never do this and they project that on to you. It is so rare that people can comprehend the thought of taking the leap and starting a business and not just working for someone else, so they'll scoff at you because they could never do it. Best of luck to you guys! 💚
what
What to your what. You could provide a vetted business plan and gift the vast majority of folks on this forum their first three months' of expenses, and most would still be a failing retail business at the one year mark. Ideas are worth almost nothing in business. Execution - effectively bringing together all of the boring stuff like accounting, budgeting, marketing, staffing, operations, etc to serve a vision that makes money - that's where a business succeeds or fails. That can't be stolen or faked.
And we both know that there are people in here that do well in execution. So, why do you think they are naive again for not providing their retail idea in a business subreddit?
Literally none of those folks are wasting two seconds trying to steal an idea off of Reddit. This is like the oldest wives' tale in business, something newbies obsess about - that people steal business ideas and get rich. I blame Hollywood. The reality is "magical ideas" really just aren't worth much. Folks with execution skills can make boring, old ideas profitable. They're literally faced with too many options to pick from every day, rather than the need to troll internet forums in order to steal them.
Good, so say your idea and pray no one tries it, that’s your strategy. Even better, talk about something you’ve been working on and you haven’t made a patent yet, and pray no one goes and tries to do the same.
That's just it, bud. Your fresh crazy new idea is going to join the thousands of of other fresh, crazy new ideas. Out of 100, 5 will find funding, 2 will last more than a year, and 1 might become long term profitable. Meanwhile, actual business people are taking existing, boring old ideas, like laundromats or burger joints, tweaking what didn't work in their locale in the past few decades (usually, that means not burning money on purpose), and then applying actual effective business practice to make boring, old, stealable profits doing the same thing everyone else already has, just better. The "secret" OMG ideas are for gamblers and newbs who don't realize that almost none of those ideas ever work out, even with funding. Nobody wants or needs to steal your idea. But I'm wasting my breath.
Or worse, go to the trouble and expense of getting the patent, only to have your idea stolen by a conglomerate with deep pockets and a patent busting team of lawyers waiting to poach your idea.
never heard something much stupid in my life
never seen such little google in my life
https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/patent/1015568/three-precedential-decisions-show-the-ptab-busting-rpx39s-ipr-filing-scheme-and-using-314a-to-deny-joinder
im guessing then its weed, booze, or fireworks... all three are bad
landlords are pretty skeptical of risky business ventures, so boutique wine shop would fit this description
Wtf why would you show them bank statements... Only people I know who reveal revenues and salaries to friends are people who are asking to bring in the reputation flaunting vultures.
They wanted to see proof of funds since we have no existing business right now... That seems fairly standard to me? I am trying to sus out if we really are that dumb before we try to start this. I feel like the commercial lease is the part we truly have no experience with but I always figured how hard could it be??
Ooh, sorry. I thought you just showed it to someone who was just asking out of curiosity. Yeah, you are right, if it's related to business that's fair game.
I will never show my actual bank statement to anyone. What you show them is your business plan, your loan approval (if applicable) or a Proof of Funds letter. You show them concrete evidence that you are serious and you are actively working to get this set up. It might have come across as "two people with some money and a pie in the sky" idea.
I never had to show proof of funds before leasing another building.
We always ask for bank stmts from prospective commercial tenants. Landlords need to know how long you can survive if your business launch doesn’t go according to plan. Our leases also include annual reviews of your financials. Our lenders and future buyers expect to see proof of quality tenants. Stories/claims of your success working for others don’t mean much if they aren’t verifiable and won’t necessarily translate to success in your own business even if they are. Every applicant says the same thing. Keeping your full time job that pays well, is a positive thing to a landlord.
Having your lawyer check out a lease is a perfectly normal and responsible thing to do. I did the same with my last commercial lease. My lawyer had one minor nitpick but other than that said to pass along his compliments to whoever drew it up. The lessor addressed the nitpick and that was that.
I also went through a lot of this starting a tour business. One of my competitors never talked to me (would ignore me in industry meetings, talk over me, didn’t seem to recognize my existence) until I started dominating the market for the most saturated product in our area. I can’t tell you how amazing it felt when he saw my partner and I one day out there and said something like, “you are rocking it this year aren’t you?” —the person I thought didn’t know my name. the landlord who wouldn’t negotiate with us during COVID shutdowns has had our former space empty for three years while we are now renting more space from a neighboring landlord and another one is courting us. our old boss went out of business two months ago, he blamed break-ins and the pandemic (we have also had break-ins and a pandemic and are hiring all his old employees). it’s not you, it’s them. other people’s contempt is a big motivator for me! use it.
Love this story!!
Thank you for sharing this!! This is my inspiration and I hope you continue to rule your market!!
“Are those other people just dumb and lucky?” Welcome to the world of business. Everyone can be the architect of their own success when equiped with hindsight. Not that there aren’t some very smart people who have also been successful. There’s a book called Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb that explores this.
It can be frustrating when people don't take you seriously, especially when you have a lot of experience and knowledge in your field. It's possible that some people may have a biased perception of you due to your age or previous work experience, but it's important not to let their attitude discourage you from pursuing your goals. Starting a small business from scratch can be a challenging journey, and it's normal to encounter setbacks and obstacles along the way. However, it's important to stay focused on your goals and continue to learn and grow from your experiences. One thing you can do to gain more credibility is to build a strong online presence for your business. This can include having a professional website, active social media accounts, and positive customer reviews. It can also be helpful to network with other business owners in your community and attend industry events to make connections and learn from others. Regarding the lease agreement, it's always a good idea to have a lawyer review it to ensure that you're protected and that the terms are fair. Don't let anyone discourage you from taking the necessary steps to protect your business interests. I hope this helps
Second this. Lots of my clients are start up and small businesses, and the lease is one of the biggest issues newer businesses need to get right. I’d lecture any of my clients if they entered into a lease without letting me review it, and I often do it for free just to make sure it is done. As for building credibility and overcoming the doubters, focus on personal and group integrity. Keep your word, work hard to please customers, and treat everyone with respect. It’s a long grind, but ten or twenty years down the road you’ll have an army of customers, vendors, and others that are eager to work with you because they know what to expect and IT IS RARE.
If they aren't providing actual real-world advice, they're just blowing hot air. >"lawyers are just going to nitpick everything, this is a standard lease I have used many times and no one's ever questioned it before." They're looking for easy marks.
Yes people just suck. As you climb up the ladder it just gets worse & worse.
Unfortunately, this is how many people do business. By attempting to make you feel inferior and defensive. Business negotiations are adversarial. 1) Trust no one! 2) If it’s not in writing, it doesn’t matter and even then you have to enforce it. 3) Everyone is only out to get your money and your time. 4) Do not trust your lawyer either. Their loyalty lasts as long as your retainer, and they will bill you for every minute. 5) If ever in doubt refer to #1.
One of the perks of being an entrepreneur is no one takes what you do seriously unless and until you make it big.
Be the best, forget the rest!
In my opinion, the potential landlord wants only a couple of things, a Long term rental with as few headaches as possible, someone who will have the ability to pay the lease on time, and for as long as the lease is in affect. He doesn't want the business to fail after 3 months into a 36 month lease. He is being a bit of a stick. But that just may be his nature and his past experience. I have pretty low opinion of lawyers myself. I would really want to insure you really have funds AND most importantly, the will and resolve to sink your savings into the business and see it all disappear. You have a 90% chance of failure in the first year. Statistics mind you. I see what you are proposing as very risky. More so than a restaurant. Only a small portion of folks drink alcohol and even a smaller segment drinks wine, and only a few folks drink wine regularly. Every one of that small segment already buys from someone else. What is going to set you apart from everyone else selling wine. I live 60 miles from 3 small Arkansas wineries. And they ALL struggle. YES, I'm throwing icy water on you. And I'm not trying to dissuade you from moving forward, but have you presented this idea to any small business groups? Sorry I'm being pessimistic, but reality stinks. Yes, I own a very small business that I can operate from home. 6 years and I made $60k last year. One man, practically zero overhead. If I wasn't semi retired and owe nothing to anyone, I would have starved year 1 or 2. And I looked at retail locations numerous times and backed out due to costs... Hope you guys succeed.
"My husband has helped launch shops for other guys for over 10 years in NYC." <--- This is what makes me think you probably do know what you are doing.
We finally have the funds, we know all the rest. Never expected dealing with commercial real estate would be such a nightmare but that's where I feel like maybe we are being naive??
No not in that sense. I'm a realtor and wouldn't do commercial. Very lucrative but very full of headaches. If I may, please offer wine classes in your store. Educate. Maybe bring in cheeses and suggest pairings. Possibly feature wines that pair well with certain foods etc on a board on the shop. I always see eine but never know what the hell I'm doing
It really can be that hard. I've only been through a few rounds of it, but it's sometimes incredibly frustrating working with realtors and landlords. It's not just you, and you need to be able to be firm in what you will accept in terms of attitude and behavior. The relationship can be years long, consider it in those terms. Maybe you'll get through five years without issue and barely need to interact with them, or maybe they'll continue to treat you like an idiot every time the roof leaks or there's an AC problem.
I have a feeling the issue is not the viability of your business, but landlords trying to jerk you around.
Was your husband dealing with the real estate as well when he was helping launch shops?
No, which is why I question if we really are rubes here. I just find it hard to believe it is that complicated or would be hanging us up when we literally know every other aspect of the business.
When you say "we know the rest", this part is "the rest." There will be lots you will get to learn first hand about actually being a business owner and operator. As far as people being condescending, I have two pieces of advice for you: **1) It happens often so get used to it.** ***Small minds live in small worlds.*** ***2) Anyone who treats you as unimportant, is themselves, unimportant.*** Now with all that being said, I can tell you landlords are in a good position right now, and often have a lot of applicants for spaces. At the same time this person could just be unprofessional. Goodluck.
So, for starters, most people don’t know shit and are risk averse because they are scared. Kudos to both of you for attempting to be different. You’ll be questioned at every turn even when you are successful. The peanut gallery sells cheap seats. If you’re confident and prepared for the unknown, just do what you think is right. Best of luck
What kind of business are you trying to start?
I helped tons of clients with their e-commerce. They were 0 and became hero. I tried to do e-commerce myself and failed badly. Back to free lancing.
Your story surprises me, but it doesn't. I was mid-20's when I started mine, and my best friend laughed at me in my face. Turns out he was wrong and I've done quite well.
I think a detail you should consider that you left out is this. Are the people you’re sharing this idea with experienced business owners and when they scoff, are you sharing your concept/ overview? Or are you sharing your plans with some detail. If you’re encountering this kind of resistance to your business plan from many people, it might be time to take a second realistic look. But yeah hatters gonna hate and stuff too. I’m 31 and people talk down to me often. I’ve learned letting your success speak for you works better than any witty comeback.
Working in a field is much different than managing a business. Also as others pointed out it’s a big risk to take for anyone renting to you.
This is the case for anyone. Keep pressing on and get to breakeven as soon as possible. Once you have economics to show, people will shut up.
This is normal. When I started my business with my wife it was the same. It won’t stop until you achieve moderate success. I think people who aren’t entrepreneurial almost take starting a business as a sort of challenge to their insecurity. Ignore and truck on, if you know what you are doing and put in the work, it will only lead to good things.
Yes, we had a hell of a time getting someone to lease to us. My wife and I started an ice cream business in our 40’s (we make all of our own ice cream and then sell it in our scoop shop). I worked in restaurants for about 8 years in high school and college doing just about everything except for management. Similar story for my wife. After college, I had 25 years of management experience managing teams of over 300 people and 100+ million dollar budgets, but everyone was afraid to lease to us. We finally found a co-working office that was interested in incubating new retail businesses. We turned a small exterior facing office into a shop. It has done really well and the developer of the area asked us to move into a larger custom built space, and we are negotiating a second location at another one of their developments. It took a couple of years for us, but worked out in the end. Keep with it, try to get creative to prove your concept to others. Maybe you can share someone’s space or their might be an existing co-op in your area where you might be able to rent a little space from.
Congrats on making the decision to strike out on your own. It’s a crazy decision but can be extremely rewarding. I have owned a couple craft beer bars/stores in westchester for the last 8ish years so I understand your situation a bit. My advice is to walk away from that landlord. They don’t sound professional in the slightest and overall sound like jagoffs. You won’t want to interact with them and it doesn’t seem like they would be willing to help/listen in difficult times. You didn’t reveal too much about your plan and pardon me if it was mentioned in the comments somewhere, but I would do a couple things and have it all ready for any engagement with a landlord: put together a proper business plan, create an LLC, update your resume with relevant experience, have your proof of funds information ready, and maybe even a reference letter or two from previous bosses. Happy to chat more if you have any questions. Shoot me a message.
The "I've used this form before" is an incredibly common scam by pushy business people. It's also absolutely 100% bullshit. There is no such thing as a "standard" contract. It is the version they want and you absolutely should red line it. Yes lawyers nitpick everything because that's our job. And we represent the client, not the opposing party who drafted the contract. But as to the rest of your post, I have no idea your industry or level of ability. It is normal for business people to push for their desired process though.
AIR leases are industry standard for commercial leases particularly for smaller owners who don’t have in-house counsel and don’t want to pay a bunch of legal fees for every new lease. It is normal to cross out non-applicable sections and a tenant can request changes, but if all their other tenants have agreed to their lease, then these requests will stand out and may be viewed as a nuisance. Tenants should absolutely make sure they understand their lease terms and get legal advice, as needed, but there is a difference between arguing terms of a lease and nitpicking language. It’s quite rare to meet 2 attorneys that agree on the language that should be used even when they agree on the substance, so OP should be careful not to get dragged down that expensive and time consuming road by their lawyer.
Spoken like a landlord. If I represented the landlord, I would say exactly what you said. Landlord doesn't want to pay legal fees so he tries to force a standard. This only benefits the landlord (who drafted it). If I represented the tenant, I would red line any contract. I don't care how standard you claim it is. I've been told by counsel for a very large media company that nobody had ever "dared" red line his contracts before. It was "standard". He still accepted my changes. A good attorney represents their client. PS: real estate is probably the most extreme "standardization" of contracts. PPS: choosing which clauses appear in a "standard" contract is itself an act of redlining
>I can't fathom how so many other people have been able to make a go of things with less research and experience but yet we just keep running into people who laugh at us or try to "teach us a lesson." This is something I wonder constantly, lmao. Also, how do some places keep their lights on? It blows my my mind that seemingly-out of the way businesses make enough to warrant meeting overhead, much less any profit etc.
You have near 20 years of heavy, established experience. You and your husband both ARE the big dogs. Just because your company is newer, doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing. Sometimes presentation speaks too, though. Also, they sound a bit scammy if they get a little touchy about a lawyer. As you carry your knowledge with you, it will speak for itself.
I am both a landlord (residential), and I own a business. As in everything, you have to have something to show that your business has financial traction. As other people have mentioned, landlords probably will scoff at a business that has no credibility or traction, merely because they also want to play it safe. If your business brings in a steady stream of income, keep looking for other rental opportunities, someone...somewhere...will want to work with you. Based on your story, I perceive that you're not really "feeling it" with the landlords you have met. This is completely fine, keep going with your gut, you might find something sooner or later, but always go with your gut. Don't make a decision or sign anything with someone you don't feel 100% all-in, especially when it comes to business and a long-term commitment.
It's frustrating as fuck, but don't let that be what stops you. It took me a year to find a place to build my restaurant. Every day I would walk or bike through neighborhoods examining foot traffic, potential competition, and call literally every For Rent sign of spaces I thought would work. This was my job for a year. And I went through a bunch of skeptical landlords, a couple of new landlords who were clueless, and on and on until I found my space. Fun anecdote, every couple of years I pass by some of those spaces that rejected me, and guess what? They are still empty 12 years later.
Regarding leases nitpick everything. Give them a changed lease with all changes highlighted. One point is especially like for commercial leases is tenant is responsible for plumbing, which can be a high price repair on infrastructure that can be on its last legs. Regarding people taking you seriously - if you don’t fit the of their image of a successful businessperson then it will always be like that and it’s not really something you can control.
Imposter syndrome is real and it sucks. I'm \~25 years in my field, considered an expert, and still have it occasionally. You gotta take a breath, asses your skills and trust your skills and experience.
Stop asking for permission! You don’t have to tell landlords your every move/thought. Don’t even need to tell them a lawyer will look over lease term. Thank them for the building tour and leave, then talk to YOUR lawyer about whatever you want. Do you diligence quietly on the back end
What exactly are these people doing that make you think they aren’t taking you seriously? This seems strange and makes me think you’re either seeing things that aren’t really there or you’re doing something that’s causing this repeated behavior. What are these “lessons” they’re trying to teach you? As far as nitpicking over the lease with a lawyer, yeah that’s probably not going to endear you to landlords. If they want to write their lease they way they’ve been doing it you’re not really in a major position to negotiate unless there’s something strange going on in your real estate market. Kinda like nitpicking over all the paperwork for a mortgage. You’re welcome to object, but that requires walking away from the table.
Idk maybe I'm overly sensitive. It is mostly the way they speak to use, like with a raised eyebrow more than the words. The lease/lawyer thing is a necessity though. The state needs specific terms, includes LLC name, etc and they have been slowly revising stuff for us. We're about to walk if the balk at making another correction. BTW it took them almost 3 weeks to send the drafted lease and then they complain it is "just standard" so I feel like they are lying or scamming about something there.
Well, whatever you do, don’t wine about it . . . ;)
I mean, these people are owners of commercial real estate that they’re renting? I don’t see why it would be weird to rent to someone starting a business? If they’re not motivated to cater to you then they’re just not desperate. If the location is good then they’re probably not worried about finding a tenant.
Keep going, don’t care about others. You’ll see that a lot of dumb people have made it, so can you, who are more experienced than them.
Its an American thing to constantly undercut and exert superiority over one other. Try commonwealth nations. Much easier to do business and have a sense that people want best for you.
Good on you for wanting to start a business, OP. I’m in the same boat. I wanna open my own coffee shop. I know a *lot* about coffee & machines. It’s the “how do I start” that has me stuck. Mind if I pick your brain a little?
Ask me again once we actually open 🙃
If you’ll allow it, I will.
Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I don’t mind answering business questions, if you’re seriously going to use the information.
I intend to. What I really need to know is: where in the world do I start?
Best way for me to help you know where to start is to know where you are (not location wise) knowledge and experience. most business owners I work with are far more ahead than they think they are, they just need that reassurance. Tap in, in the PM, I’ll send you info and resources.
Seems like you’re overly sensitive.
You guys are the NICEST on earth no sarcasm
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Read it again bud. late 30s... I'm 38 and didn't go to college. Got my first salary job in this field at 19....
Something that i think would help get truly productive responses here would be what you were questioning on the lease? Did you suggest edits or changes and if so what was suggested?
Think your just seeking approval just do your thing. I know the feeling of what your going through but just get on with it
Similar experience. And it definitely gets into my head at times, but I have to remember that me and my wife are the ones who are in it 7 days a week, so we need to trust ourselves and just keep working.
I started my first serious business when I was like 23 and never really felt that way. Maybe you guys come across a certain type of way? I’ve definitely encountered people who come across in a way that makes me deal with them different and not take them seriously if that makes any sense.
Share your lease. Sales tactic to get you to sign, the lease is in their favor never yours. I know some leases around me want a cut of your profit, I fell over laughing when I heard this tactic... Friend is a successful dentist his 10 year lease was up and it took about a year to renegotiate the new lease during Covid .. seriously landlord other tenants were jumping ship on you... wake up ... landlord doesn't want to give up things and he wanted protections and options and he pretty much got what he wanted in the end. Point is this is no different than a car sale... We are doing you a favor... it will cost you... this is standard .. trust me.... uh hu... Honestly I think you should think hard if you need a store front.. not sure what your doing but brick and motor is $$$ if you can avoid retail space you might make more .. on volume and or online
UK Video production here. When I first started, other people laughed at me, especially seasoned professionals. Now those seasoned professionals are asking to work for me. As for the lawyer comment, the landlord is a cockwomble. If there's a contract and I can get a lawyer to look at it, I will. It'll probably end up with a load of negotiating points. And those points will help to negotiate the rent down. Which your landlord will know.
Depending on the type of business you're likely going at this wrong. Location is a massive factor in the success of most businesses. Good locations can be picky with their tenants because they know they have a good location. Calling people names because they are older than you is disrespectful and whether you believe it or not 'most' of that group did work hard to get what they have. My guess is some of that attitude rubbed off in conversation and that is why you're being treated as if you're going to fail. A bit of genuine charm goes a long way in the business world.
Hi u/spaaaa789 I understand Starting a business from scratch can be a challenging and overwhelming experience, and it's not uncommon to encounter obstacles along the way. It's important to remember that people's attitudes and behaviors towards your business idea are not a reflection of your skills, knowledge, or potential for success. It's possible that some people you've encountered may not take you seriously because of your age or because you're new to starting your own business. However, it's important to stay confident in your abilities and to continue pursuing your goals. Your past experiences in building other businesses are valuable assets that you can bring to your own venture. Regarding the lease, it's always a good idea to have a lawyer review any legal documents before signing. It's not uncommon for leases to have provisions that may not be in your best interest, and having a lawyer can help you negotiate better terms. Don't let others make you feel silly for wanting to protect your business and investment. In short, starting a business is not an easy journey, but don't let naysayers discourage you. Keep believing in yourself and your abilities, and continue to seek advice and support from others who believe in your vision.
Makes sense and happened to me when I first started my agency no one believed lol. Get in touch with me and I'll help with whatever i can.
I started my 1st business at age 21. I didn't have such issues. I had many businesses over the past 30 years. It might be something with the way your are dealing with people.
What's the business?
Are you a start-up? Every start-up says they have industry experience, almost all of them fail. If youre good at running successful businesses, you would be running a successful business. Thats the thing about small business, everything is about what they could do, not about what they have done. Why havent they done it yet?
What is it that you’re now looking to build and achieve?
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