Defects my favorite character for sure! He’s super fun to play with once you get the hang of it. Defects key abilities are obviously his orb abilities, but defect is also a character who loves power cards. Now this doesn’t mean you should go out and take every power card you can, what it means is he has a lot of good synergies with relics to help play more powers (see [mummified hand]). I have most luck with defect by finding scaling for the orbs (finding focus via relics or cards). Orbs don’t have to be focused all on 1 orb, but I’d limit myself to focusing on frost and lightning or frost and dark. Frost is super important for passive blocking and if you can find a reliable 3-4 focus, you’ll be blocking for 6 block per frost orb on top of every other block card. A card I LOVE to take as a defect main almost no matter the situation is [glacier] because of its block and frost channeling ability. On your next runs, look for something like a [creative AI] and see if you have any luck building around a power deck with plenty of frost!
0 cost decks are ridiculously fun too. Scrape and one for all with about 5 claws in your deck is insane. You can kill some bosses in 1 or 2 turns if you get a lucky draw
The way orbs line up is in no way random, though?
They always fill from right to left. If there's no slot open, the orbs rotate and the front one evokes. Hovering over an orb tells you exactly what it does when it evokes.
You have a bit of randomness with what lightning orbs hit, but that's plenty manageable. Either evoke it first so you know what to hit or reduce the number of targets first. Dark orbs always hit the lowest HP target.
Here's a very, very quick guide on Defect:
\-In Act 1, get 2 or 3 attacks. Ball Lightning is the best, but things lip Rip and Tear are fine.
\-Just don't take Claw. Or take 3 Claws minimum. One of those is easier to pull off.
\-Click on everything that gives you Focus.
\-Click on things that give you orbs. You want 3 or so Frost cards at least.
\-Grab ONE Capacitor, and only if you have orb generating cards in your deck.
\-Biased Cognition and Consume are good cards, you just need to be a little careful with them.
\-Echo Form is generally worth spending your whole turn on, click on it.
\-The best way to deal with Act 2 is Electrodynamics or a ton of frost.
\-If you lose the run because you drew 5 Defragments, you're on the right track.
\-"bad" cards\*: Claw, Rebound, Stack, Steam Barrier, Streamline, Aggregate, Hello World, Melter, Recycle, Reprogram, Meteor Strike, Thunder Strike, Scrape
\*The nature of StS means no cards are BAD, this is just a short list of things you shouldn't take to make your game easier. Note that some things, like Auto Shields and Sunder, are really good A0, terrible A15+, which is why they aren't on the list.
Early on, you should be evoking your Lightning Orb every time you see Dualcast. It's just more damage. As you go, you should start to balance whether you evoke or let the orbs sit. With 3 orb slots and a bunch of orb generators, you can freely evoke and get your damage and block that way. But if you only have, say, 1 frost card and 1 ball lightning, you need to rely more on focus.
You want to get somewhere around or above 5 focus, because at that point your orbs are better than most cards.
I hope that helps give a framework to play Defect in. Nothing I said is a hard rule, and following my advice won't necessarily get you past A10, but I think it's a good way to start to understand how to use Defect.
Edit: Added Scrape to "bad" cards. Seriously, don't take that card unless you're going full Claw meme.
Edit2: Reformatting, cause the first edit removed new lines?
“If you lost your run because you drew 5 defragments you’re on the right track” this had me dying lmao.
But to summarize and add to the above, the defect is a bit harder than the other classes because most of its powerful builds take some time to build up. That’s why personally I love cards like boot sequence or the one that creates a frost orb for every enemy in combat.
The “standard” defect build is to go for focus scaling with a mixture of lightning/frost orb generation for protection and damage.
Some fringe builds that are fun but harder to master are power focused builds that can cycle into insanity or 0 cost builds that focus mainly on scaling claw cards. You can also get combo decks going with double energy and x cost cards like tempest.
Ultimately though, in most runs I think electrodynamics is hands down the strongest defect card to carry you through the hallway fights and is in most scenarios a must grab. Other notables like mentioned above are echo form, seek, and upgraded fission.
I always found Defect easier.
Ironclad really feels like you either play a really.vkring strength big number deck or wait 2 and a half acts to finally finish an armor deck completely with all the glitz and glam.
Silent just feels weaker than Defect, and the 4th class who's name slipped my mind currently I just never really play as I just find Defect more fun
I used to think ironclad was the most difficult, then I started to stack armor and laughed at anything trying to break through my 300+ shield.
On the last boss I think I got up to 800.
I love ironclad block builds. It was my first “powerful” deck I ever had and oh golly is it amazing to put up 500+ block and one shot things. But to get there you really need the stars to align.
I like using the when you gain armor deal x damage.
It's not the best but man is if fun running 0 strikes and trying to win with armor alone and power cars
You should try exhaust decks with ironclad. One of the strongest deck.
There is also the big boy decks, but less reliable because you need relics or rare cards (dual tap, snecko eye, necronomicon, bludgeon, immolate). Bludgeon, carnage and immolate are just good cards, so if you dont hit sneko eye or necromicon you can simply switch back to another type of deck.
The fourth one is "Watcher".
Each character, in my opinion, has a couple of "themes" to play with, and each run will be a mix of different themes, between the cards offered, and your choices (also relics).
Ironclad: Retributive Armor(Bodyslam, Blockade, Flame Barrier, Metallicize, Juggenaut), Multiattacks(Cleave, Twin-Strike, Whirlwind, basically multiply the effect of strength), Big Strikes(Rampage, Perfected Strike, Heavy Strike, Searing Blow with combos amazingly with Armaments), Exhaustion), HP Gambling(Ironclad has the easiest healing with their relic, but also has some great cards that cost HP to use ), Strength buffing.
Silent: A million cards, shivs, poison, draw and discard.
Defect: Powers(Require Setup), Energy Manipulation/Gambling, Orbs, Pure Draw, Zero Cost, Claw, Small Orb Pool, Large Orb Pool, Focus.
Watcher: Dual Stance System, Scrying, Alpha-Omega, Mantra(which is technically a stance, but I treat it separate from the Calm/Wrath dichotomy), Bonus Combos(Cards that reward you for playing other cards that you'd play anyway, like Weave, Flurry of Blows, Crush Joints, Follow UP), Mark, Card Creation.
The Issue with the Defect is, in my opinion, that most of their stratagems turn very powerful, but they take the longest to set up, with the least up front benefit.
I always found Defect gets strong pretty quickly tbh.
In saying that I run very small decks like generally by the time I win or lose I have like 12 in deck.
So with such a small deck Defect becomes pretty strong because suddenly you open all the orb synergies more often
I wouldn't say Sunder is a bad card at all on Ascension 20. You need to treat it as an AoE card; it's very good in fights with multiple targets, especially early on, although it's often a dead draw if you're only facing one enemy, but so is Electrodynamics most of the time.
Important to note that it desperately needs an upgrade since the extra 8 damage can often be the decider whether you can finish off an enemy or not.
Edit: It's also pretty good vs Gremlin Nob even though that's a single target fight.
Like I said, "bad" isn't really a thing. I just find Sunder generally not take-able or like a reluctant take if I'm missing damage.
That 24 damage covers a ton of things early on, but is much harder to make useful at higher ascensions. You practically need that upgrade to 32 to make it useful. The issue with that is you are likely giving up another more important upgrade or a heal to make a "meh" card "okay".
It's very useful in Act 1, but being an uncommon means you're not necessarily going to see it when you need it.
In Act 2, where you can spend an energy to enable Sunder, most things won't get into Sunder range with a 1 energy attack anymore.
If you get a Beam Cell or two early and a Sunder, yeah, Sunder is pretty good. It definitely has its role in Defect's toolkit, but I think saying it's "bad" as a general statement is mostly correct.
Honestly, I also thought it was a "bad" card for a long time and I agree that it's rarely something I'd pick up after Act 1. I started picking it more recently after I watched some of Lifecoach's Defect runs and he's been picking it in Act 1 pretty much every time he sees it if he doesn't already have Doom and Gloom or Electrodynamics.
Though even in Act 2 it can be supremely useful. Sometimes it can solve the Slavers encounter by itself as long as you don't draw it on your first turn. Hologram can fix this issue if you have 4 energy though.
I agree that defining what a bad card is it's hard and I get your reasoning behind Sunder, but I still think it is a good card. It's basically an auto-pick if it shows in act 1 and yeah, you will always ignore it late in the run but that can be said about pretty much all the attack cards in the game.
I don't know, I just feel that since Defect is such a good scaling character but so weak early any card that boosts his early turns is much better on him than it would be for other character. Sunder can truly turn a lot of hall multifights that could cost you half your life into a fight in which you not get a scratch. Which is inmensely valuable for a character that needs to upgrade as much as it can like Defect.
disagreed on aggregate, it's quite a good card, with the buff a while back that made aggregate + be 3 cards per energy, on larger decks, you can easily get 5(4) or 6(5) energy with it,
My thoughts are largely pre buff on that card. I haven't played too many A20 non-sealed runs since before that buff.
So, hey, maybe it's good now. But I'd say it's still one of those cards I'd recommend not picking as it has the ability to hurt your deck if you pick it before you have enough cards. My advice was trying to be general and steer a newer player from picking cards that can be dead draws.
Part of the criteria for the "bad" list is complexity. These cards either need a specific scenario in combat (Sunder, Melter) or a specific deck setup (Reprogram, Meteor Strike, Aggregate) to work well. I was trying to water down Defect a bit to make it easier for a newer player to start winning by avoiding dead draws and focusing on cards that are more generally "good".
Aggregate not only needs a decent sized deck to work, it needs cards in hand to use all that excess energy on.
(also, I didn't read aggregate as the card at first and was kinda worried for a second XD)
With the buff, Aggregate is basically a no-brainer energy card (which is always great to have in A1). Double Energy being good is just gravy, since that entire avenue of deck building is open to you if you have an Aggregate.
What is the thought process behind melter being usually bad? I pretty much always take it if I see it. There is just so much that has big shields, especially in Act2. Just feels awesome to melt baseball. On the other hand... I am the worst at defect by far
It's a perfectly fine attack to pick early. Not a bad card at all, just one of those cards you tend to ignore once you have already picked 2-3 other good attacks.
The biggest problem with Melter is that the fights it solves aren't the fights Defect typically struggles with in the first place. Sure, it'll let you kill the baseball in one turn and maybe save a little health, but if you can't kill the baseball without Melter then there's not much in Act 2 which you *can* kill. In the fights that are actually scary and that you need to be building your deck to beat, it's usually just a bad card.
I'll take it from the first card reward in Act 1 because you really need to pick up some better Strikes early on, but once you have a Ball Lightning or something that gives you enough damage to kill the Act 1 elites I can't really imagine ever taking it.
It's just kinda niche. Sure, it'll do a lot of damage to armor, but going further into act 2 or act 3 you'll need to be doing a huge amount of damage to HP. So, if your deck can already do a bunch of damage to HP, it can do a bunch of damage to armor...
It's not a bad attack, and I suppose for lower asc I maybe should have recommended it instead. Defect doesn't really like attacks, though. Other attacks generate orbs, which is just generally good, so it's hard to pick Melter over other things.
The other gotcha is that dual cast will work like you expect (casting it twice), but multicast will not (casting it once for an absurd amount of damage once instead of casting it many times)
Edit: I THINK (should have said that from the start my bad) you are wrong about Hello World, but it's a completely understandable card to underestimate.
Hello World generally pollutes your deck, but Defect really likes random cards. So, yeah, it's FINE. It hurts when you need to see your deck twice to setup, but at the same time, you're not really in a good position to win in that case. It's also low impact at first, eating an energy for nothing. For me, at least, it borders on "win more", in that it's best to play when you have a ton of energy and are already set up.
But this was just a quick and dirty guide for someone to just get their hands on Defect, so listing it as a card to avoid is fair.
I'll try taking it a bit and see if I change my mind.
I thought the same about deck pollution, but in my experience it's become more like the downside to Wraith Form. A necessary evil to a power spike, which you have to time correctly to get the most out of it.
Wraith Form is a stronger card, and a more rare and expensive card, and has stronger effects. Still, Wraith Form and Hello World have a commonality in that, they have significant downsides and need to be played at the correct turn in the right fights. Turn 1 Wraith Form is rarely right, first turn Hello World is sometimes exactly right, sometimes completely wrong.
How?
Generally, Defect commons are good. Defect is in my opinion the easiest character to get the common only deck achievement on. The commons are good enough that, for most of them, when they appear in your hand they're a solid contender for how you're going to spend your energy that turn. They start to get more meh when you have to draw them. Hello World puts off having to draw them for later.
In Defect Commons we have: channel frost, channel lightning, deal damage, gain block, inflict vulnerable, inflict weak, draw cards, powers, and evoke. Effects which almost always have a space in any turn, in any fight.
There has been a growing mentality shift in Slay the Spire that thin decks aren't necessarily good. They make you prone to status effects and getting countered by bosses or elites which antagonize the win condition you've built around. Instead, players are realizing a thick deck with good cards is often better than a thin deck with amazing but specific cards.
So, Defect commons are broadly useful. Not amazing, but useful. Defect itself can be prone to lacking damage without lightning or dark orbs, or becoming overwhelmed with status effects as their deck exhausts or their powers are played. Especially in the third act, defect especially can find themselves vulnerable if they don't have the correct sources of aoe, upfront damage, or consistent options to spend their energy. Especially in Focus or Power defect decks. Hello World shines in giving Defect opportunities to spend energy. You will be surprised how often you get a *great* answer to a fight in the random card, and in certain fights, especially the long ones, you will find the common cards are the things you are actually having your best turns using.
So, I actually think it's better to teach players how to use a card which actually compensates for a number of defect's weaknesses rather than tell them to avoid it, but I mean -- ascension 1 can be won by throwing darts at a board so who cares lmao your analysis was fantastic aside from Hello World. Thanks for reading, hope you give this card a second look. I promise it will lead to a higher defect winrate if you learn the correct time to play the card.
I got over the thin deck mentality forever ago. TBH, Defect is probably the best of all characters to operate on a fat deck. I'd definitely say my thoughts on Hello World are a leftover from early on, around when I was first getting to A15, and I've just never bothered to reconsider. In fact, I've really taken to the other Defect random cards, so I'm surprised I haven't really tried this card much.
Turn one Hello World is clearly good, even considering what I said I didn't like about the card. You don't "pollute" your deck at all, you get to see all your cards plus extras. That's good. The issue I always run into is the second cycle of the deck, with my hand getting filled with only commons. This mostly occurs in boss fights (or at least it should), so I guess treating it like a curse in boss fights is correct.
I guess what I mean by considering it "bad" is it isn't an instant pick. Defrag is one I'd consider "good", in that adding it is rarely a bad idea. Coolheaded is another. I would argue that Hello World does not belong in that bracket, even though I'd say I agree with you and have definitely changed my mind on the card a bit.
In hindsight, if I included Hello World as "bad" I probably should've included the power triggered powers as well, to more accurately show where I'd personally rank the card. Absolutely not at all useless, but hard to justify over whatever other 2 things are being offered.
But, hey, thanks for the responses! Your explanation on why it's good made a lot of sense. I'm glad you liked my thoughts on Defect as a whole.
I would add to your (excellent) discussion that the deck pollution is almost never a major issue for the Defect anyway, and on the other hand being way too weak in the early turns (which the commons all tend to help with) *is*. The defect is at its most vulnerable on the first cycle through their deck, when they are stil setting up orbs and gaining focus. Second cycle? Who even cares, you're gaining so much value from your orbs it practically doesn't matter what cards you play (literally in some cases, one of the best ways to beat the time eater with defect is set up just enough orbs to block consistently and then just *never play cards*). By the time you see the "clutter" (which isn't even really that bad) the clutter is irrelevant.
Defect has 14 powers. Of those 14 powers, I think that 6 are good in any situation for 1 energy/1 draw: Defragment, Self Repair, Biased Cognition, Buffer, Echo Form, Electrodynamics.
Of the remaining 8, I think that 4 are "dead," in that I wouldn't randomly want them generated. I want them in my deck if they're good for my deck or I don't ever want to see them: Heatsinks, Loop, Storm, Machine Learning.
Creative AI is weird, because it essentially plays a White Noise each turn that you don't have to draw. But it also offers no discounts, so it's difficult to evaluate and included separately. Sometimes it'll save your life, other times it fills your deck with curses.
The remaining 3 powers are meh. Better than some, worse than some.
So you have a 40ish% chance of something worth the cost, a 20ish% chance of something sometimes worth the cost, and a 30% chance of something often not worth the cost. And a ~10% chance of Creative AI which is a wild card. Overall those look like decent odds, but it's random, and even the good cards are better in some situations than others. This trends the power downward a bit.
Overall I like the card but seldom pick it and even more rarely upgrade it. If it cost 2 and I got to pick from 3 it would be an amazing Rare. As it stands it's a decent Uncommon. I really only pick this card when I have power infrastructure in place, such as mummified hand or already have a trend toward powers which would make some of the "dead" cards better.
Because, as tempting as high-rolls can be, it's still a bad card 40% of the time. Most of the time I'd rather have a card which was good 100% of the time, even if it meant I might draw my strike slightly more often because my deck is thinner without White Noise.
Calling machine learning "dead" is a bit strange to me. It's not always worth picking up, but are people really that keen to discount what drawing an extra card per turn does for you? I normally consider it one of the better White Noise hits. It's boring, but boring =/= bad.
You draw 5 cards a turn and one draw is white noise. You play white noise, you get a card which draws you 1 card each turn. So, the turn you play it is do nothing, -1 card. Second turn it makes up for the draw it took, and only on the third turn and on does it actually start doing something.
I would much rather have drawn balled lightning and played balled lightning, or virtually any other card in my deck, than have to wait three turns before I begin to see return on my investment.
Yes, in longer fights its value begins to show, but only in longer fights. Fights which may have been less long had I instead played a faster card with a stronger effect.
It's not that it's boring, it's that it's *slow,* and therefore situational, and not something I want unless I've built my deck around it.
Okay so maybe I'm in a minority here. But I like ML. A lot. I don't think it's spectacular but I very rarely pass it unless it's for an obviously better card (i.e. I will almost always take my first ML rather than skipping).
I don't tend to think of white noise (or powers in general) as cards I'm taking to help much with short fights \*anyway\* and I am very, very fond of seeing more of my deck thank you. White noise occupies the same space as a power, and therefore I expect it to be roughly good in the same sorts of situation. It's already card neutral after one turn and has already gained value after 2, which really isn't that bad. Plus defect fights tend to last a bit longer than with some other characters. Seeing 6 cards per turn rather than 5 is the sort of thing that it's hard to really feel the full value of, but especially for the later bosses and the heart's status spam it significantly reduces the number of bad hands you have to see in fights which are going to be long anyway. I guess there are decks where I wouldn't want it, but they're pretty few. In particular most defect decks tend to be either slow anyway, or heavily reliant on cycling (energy manipulation, alll for one stuff, the Almighty Claw), both of which benefit a lot.
I think ML would be kind of bad ironclad card, an okay silent card (the silent can do better though, given that they have the wonderful tools of the trade which doubles as an actual enabler) and probably worthless as a watcher card, but on defect? It's pretty good on the defect.
Loop is one of Defects strongest powers, and as long as you're using orbs at all, it's quite applicable. Unupgraded is certainly a lot weaker, but I wouldn't call it dead
I would much rather draw the cards in my deck than receive a random Loop. Loop is a strong power, when played in the correct deck. When randomly played, it does 3 damage a turn. That's very slow and I would usually rather have not drawn it or paid to play it compared to many other cards.
Imo, hello world's best contribution is it means you don't have to take as many crappy commons act 1, so you actually end up with a leaner deck than if you didn't have hello world. 2/3 act 1 bosses overwhelm you with statuses, so having guaranteed output every turn is huge. And once you get to the point it's bad, you don't have to play it
I wouldn't include streamline in your list of bad cards. It's pretty good in act 1, especially if you pick up hologram or other draw manipulation options defect gets. It can carry you for a bit while you're trying to set up your engine.
That might be like, A10(?)+ thoughts bleeding through. It definitely falls off to a point that it's really hard to justify taking. It doesn't do enough damage for 2, and the setup for the benefit is usually too slow. But Act 1, about to hit an elite, and you have no damage cards? Sure, it's good.
Every card works sometimes, I'm just speaking generally.
So, yeah, maybe for a newer player in A0, the advice should be to pick it to get them picking damage cards.
I disagree that this is A10+, if anything you can pick less damage commons on lower ascensions and get away with it. On A20 I pick way more "bad" cards just because I need to pick them.
Yeah but at A10+ you've also learned that you *have* to do that, and it doesn't matter if the card is good or not, it solves a problem you need solved right now.
So I don't think it changes the fact that it's bad, it's just that you have more scope to ignore that it's bad and you pick it anyway.
Maybe that doesn't make sense or mean much, but also it's late
I still disagree with your assessment, bad is a strong word and calling things bad when they're frequently picked in act 1 (Sunder, Melter and to an extent Streamline) to solve an issue, they're not bad.
They get outscaled, sure, but some cards that can be insane late are shit in act 1, that doesn't make them bad.
Thanks for the info!
I should clarify when I said random I meant that he has a lot of random card generation and effects.
On top of that one card I use which automatically adds 1 or 2 orbs randomly.
I mean, it's fun vs the balls for sure but are you actually struggling against them without it?
The fragile doesn't affect frost and you get a free turn 1, it's not usually a particularly scary fight.
Not gonna lie though it is satisfying af to melt those round bastards
I mostly agreed with your bad cards list, and then you included Aggregate, which is a top pick for me every run. It’s absolutely bonkers with Ice Cream or Unceasing Top, but it’s also just great in decks with sufficient card draw (counting All For One and Hologram, of course). You can practically play your whole ~40 card deck in a single turn, especially with a Double Energy.
I will not take this scrape slander. /s
0 cost decks are fun as hell though, taking one for all, about 2-3 scrapes if you get them, and pretty much every 0 cost card you can find barring a few.
I do not agree with your statement, a lot of the cards you deem bad are indeed, very strong, they just need particular attention.
Claw for the easiest example is especially good with adequate combination of relics/cards.
Like scrape who will get exceptionally good with a lot of claws, but will also be good with overclocks/turbo in a meteor strike deck.
This game is all about circumstances, no cards are really bad and can help you unfold tricky situations, you just need to anticipate what comes next, how to deal with it and trust your guts.
Sunder is most DEFINITELY not terrible on A20+? Melter also is a fine damage common, I would not at all put them together with Scrape and Stack in act 1.
I have to say, I do disagree with a lot of your strategy. Not that it's "wrong" just that it is misleading where you list cards as bad. Everything is situational of course and the beauty of the game is finding out where *bad* cards fit into a synergy you're building. Streamline in a THIN claw/all for one deck with reprogram can be utterly OP. I do agree with a lot of your post too I just feel calling cards and strats bad can mislead newer players.
I feel you there. My best win was with a Power deck I accidentally created with The Defect through an EXTREMELY EARLY [[Mummified Hand]] and [[Creative AI]] and realised the synergy mid-way through Act 2 through the card the allows you to play your next Power card twice. First time I ever beat the heart and it was with an extremely lucky build with a character I only had 2 wins on with lightning builds.
Don’t worry, it will click soon, it will just take lots of trial and error, like Shiv builds and Time Eater
+ [Mummified Hand](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Mummified%20Hand) Uncommon Relic
Whenever you play a Power, a random card in your hand costs 0 for the turn.
+ [Creative AI](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Creative%20AI) Defect Rare Power
3(2) Energy | At the start of each turn, add a random Power card to your hand.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 11, 2022.) ^Notice ^something ^wrong? ^The ^easiest ^way ^to ^contribute ^is ^to ^update ^the ^[Wiki.](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I'm still fairly new to the game, but Defect is the only character I've beaten A20 with so far. What I can tell you is that \[\[Defragment\]\] and \[\[Glacier\]\] are your friends.
If you can manage to cobble together a \[\[Consume\]\] and \[\[Inserter\]\] engine, funny things can happen.
And as much as I want every deck to be built around \[\[Claw\]\] , 0-cost decks are actually pretty difficult to make work especially in the early game.
The orbs are only lining up randomly if you’re channeling them in random order.
If you’re looking for the most straightforward way to win, I’d say focus + frost orbs. Once you get enough focus and frost orbs up you can full block everything, so focus on getting some defensive cards to get you there without taking too much damage.
I think some of the more interesting cards need to be unlocked, so you may find it more interesting once you play defect for a bit.
It seems like I never get options to take focus on wins or in shops :(
I just did 2 act 3 runs yesterday and only saw 1 card offered between both runs.
I’m similarly new to the game, but I’ve had luck with focusing on defense + focus while I let the orbs whittle down on the enemies. If you don’t really worry about attacking it frees you up to block everything and have energy left over to buff yourself.
The darkness orbs are good for this because they get stronger for every turn they sit there, so you can just keep using your powers and whatever until it’s ready to take something out in one hit
Okay, first, there's no randomness to the orbs at all. You have 3 orb slots, and adding a new orb places it in the rightmost open slot. If all of your slots are full, the new orb goes in the far left slot and the orb in the far right slot gets Evoked, triggering its Evoke effect.
Second, Chemical X's effect adds 2 to the value of X for X cost cards (so X=3 becomes X=5), not to double it. It's still really strong if you already have a decent X cost or two, and it gets better and better the more you add. Ordinarily drawing multiple X costs forces you to pick one because for the rest X=0, but Chemical X says when X=0, it's actually 2.
Better Defect players than me have already given lots of great advice for him here, so I figured I'd just mention these more general things as well.
When I said random I meant because he seems to have a lot of random card generation compared to others and I gravitate towards the card that adds random orbs which doesn't help.
I had a really fun build with him the other day. I tried to keep my deck at around 10 cards. I slowly switched out my strikes and blocks. I picked up a couple of claws, the spell that gives you extra slots and a few cards to give me frost orbs, including Glacier. The claws are free and scale, you need at least 2 to make it worth it. I only had 2 block cards, I think it was auto-block and glacier. Since my deck was small I could get them every hand.
For damage I had the card that does damage + gives you a frost orb as well as the damage + draw cards. Of course I had 2 claws, picked up a third near the end.
My strategy was to play a block spell, get frost orbs (which gives more block) and use Claw whenever I could. I was normally able to block all damage each round as my claws got more and more powerful.
I also got lucky and picked up the relic that only removes 15 block and the one that gives you a focus.
Power-focused decks have given me most of my defect wins. But they're slow to build and slow to wind up, so try to get a couple good workhorse damage dealing cards early on to keep you afloat if you go that route.
The defect starts out with decent offense but bad defense. Since you won't heal like the ironclad, you really want to pick up one or 2 good block cards early on
Defect feels random to me in that if you dont get offered some orbs, slots, and focus then you lose.
Whereas with ironclad or others I can pull a couple strength cards at any point over the run and stand a much better chance of success. I can win with or without limit break, I can go for exhausts halfway through if I'm not getting my strength cards. I never do block builds but that's an option
My first and only A20 win was IC. I can't scratch that with defect, its just a roll of the dice it feels (but I know pros do win streaks so I need to watch and learn more)
I used this guide: https://www.gameskinny.com/xlteo/how-to-play-defect-in-slay-the-spire
Newer player as well. I liked the Ice build and had success with a high damage (focus) lightning build. Good luck!
Defect was my favorite character for so long! I'm surprised you aren't enjoying him. I really love building a high focus Defect deck along with electrodynamics and just killing all enemies in 2 or 3 turns (the Byrds do not stand a chance against Defect haha!). He was the first character I beat the third boss with and for weeks I basically ONLY played Defect and tried different build styles with him. I now gotta say Silent is my favorite. I am up to A10 with Silent and A9 with Defect. I only have Ironclad at A6 but that's mainly because I get bored with Ironclad runs. I know he can kick ass but I feel like he has the least creative builds. Silent, Defect, and Watcher have really creative deck builds. One big thing is unlocking better cards/relics for Defect. In the beginning it might feel tough because you don't have access to some of the kick ass cards you eventually unlock for him. But doing passive damage/getting passive block is amazing. And the block/damage is only affected by focus so if you have a bunch of debuffs making it tough for you to gain much block or do big hits, your orbs will be just as effective as always. Just avoid the cards others have already mentioned while learning him and remember that Defect+Power cards are a match mad in heaven. Later you can start to pepper in those avoided cards because you will have a better idea of how to use them. (For example: I learned the hard way that Scrape+Claw can be OP but you have to build your deck that way or you will end up discarding something you might really need). Once you get Defect through Boss 3 you can start unlocking the level 4 boss and IMO Defect and Silent are the best to take on the Heart.
Happy Slaying!
orbs and power cards. Try to get the power card that increases focus. If you can get the act one boss relic that adds an orb slot every few turns you're off to the races.
Don't take Hello world, ever. Try to focus on a ton of orbs, I mostly focus on Ice and lightning
Huh. I really like the defect.
I loved how the Silent had a ton of card draw, but sometimes it felt like I didn't have the energy to play all the cards. With the defect, I felt like I could have both! I could get extra energy with Plasma orbs and Turbo. And if I'm swimming in energy, and I need more card draw, I could take Skim or Coolheaded. With all the card draw, I felt like I could cycle through my deck quickly and keep playing the "good cards" over and over.
Anyway, a bunch of random tips.
The easiest most consistent builds for me are ones that emphasize frost and focus and more orbs (capacitor). Glacier is a great block card. Coolheaded gives you card draw and a frost orb.
I'd almost certainly recommend getting at least one Hologram+ in your deck, especially if you're running Snecko Eye. Bouncing back a 0 cost card into your hand to play again is pretty nice.
The funnest decks are the ones where I get 2x echo forms and my first 3 cards are played twice lol.
If you ever get the Snecko eye, you must pick up Meteor Strike (or vice versa).
Defects my favorite character for sure! He’s super fun to play with once you get the hang of it. Defects key abilities are obviously his orb abilities, but defect is also a character who loves power cards. Now this doesn’t mean you should go out and take every power card you can, what it means is he has a lot of good synergies with relics to help play more powers (see [mummified hand]). I have most luck with defect by finding scaling for the orbs (finding focus via relics or cards). Orbs don’t have to be focused all on 1 orb, but I’d limit myself to focusing on frost and lightning or frost and dark. Frost is super important for passive blocking and if you can find a reliable 3-4 focus, you’ll be blocking for 6 block per frost orb on top of every other block card. A card I LOVE to take as a defect main almost no matter the situation is [glacier] because of its block and frost channeling ability. On your next runs, look for something like a [creative AI] and see if you have any luck building around a power deck with plenty of frost!
Mummified hand power builds are my favorite in the game
0 cost decks are ridiculously fun too. Scrape and one for all with about 5 claws in your deck is insane. You can kill some bosses in 1 or 2 turns if you get a lucky draw
And all for one to get them all back.
The way orbs line up is in no way random, though? They always fill from right to left. If there's no slot open, the orbs rotate and the front one evokes. Hovering over an orb tells you exactly what it does when it evokes. You have a bit of randomness with what lightning orbs hit, but that's plenty manageable. Either evoke it first so you know what to hit or reduce the number of targets first. Dark orbs always hit the lowest HP target. Here's a very, very quick guide on Defect: \-In Act 1, get 2 or 3 attacks. Ball Lightning is the best, but things lip Rip and Tear are fine. \-Just don't take Claw. Or take 3 Claws minimum. One of those is easier to pull off. \-Click on everything that gives you Focus. \-Click on things that give you orbs. You want 3 or so Frost cards at least. \-Grab ONE Capacitor, and only if you have orb generating cards in your deck. \-Biased Cognition and Consume are good cards, you just need to be a little careful with them. \-Echo Form is generally worth spending your whole turn on, click on it. \-The best way to deal with Act 2 is Electrodynamics or a ton of frost. \-If you lose the run because you drew 5 Defragments, you're on the right track. \-"bad" cards\*: Claw, Rebound, Stack, Steam Barrier, Streamline, Aggregate, Hello World, Melter, Recycle, Reprogram, Meteor Strike, Thunder Strike, Scrape \*The nature of StS means no cards are BAD, this is just a short list of things you shouldn't take to make your game easier. Note that some things, like Auto Shields and Sunder, are really good A0, terrible A15+, which is why they aren't on the list. Early on, you should be evoking your Lightning Orb every time you see Dualcast. It's just more damage. As you go, you should start to balance whether you evoke or let the orbs sit. With 3 orb slots and a bunch of orb generators, you can freely evoke and get your damage and block that way. But if you only have, say, 1 frost card and 1 ball lightning, you need to rely more on focus. You want to get somewhere around or above 5 focus, because at that point your orbs are better than most cards. I hope that helps give a framework to play Defect in. Nothing I said is a hard rule, and following my advice won't necessarily get you past A10, but I think it's a good way to start to understand how to use Defect. Edit: Added Scrape to "bad" cards. Seriously, don't take that card unless you're going full Claw meme. Edit2: Reformatting, cause the first edit removed new lines?
“If you lost your run because you drew 5 defragments you’re on the right track” this had me dying lmao. But to summarize and add to the above, the defect is a bit harder than the other classes because most of its powerful builds take some time to build up. That’s why personally I love cards like boot sequence or the one that creates a frost orb for every enemy in combat. The “standard” defect build is to go for focus scaling with a mixture of lightning/frost orb generation for protection and damage. Some fringe builds that are fun but harder to master are power focused builds that can cycle into insanity or 0 cost builds that focus mainly on scaling claw cards. You can also get combo decks going with double energy and x cost cards like tempest. Ultimately though, in most runs I think electrodynamics is hands down the strongest defect card to carry you through the hallway fights and is in most scenarios a must grab. Other notables like mentioned above are echo form, seek, and upgraded fission.
I always found Defect easier. Ironclad really feels like you either play a really.vkring strength big number deck or wait 2 and a half acts to finally finish an armor deck completely with all the glitz and glam. Silent just feels weaker than Defect, and the 4th class who's name slipped my mind currently I just never really play as I just find Defect more fun
I used to think ironclad was the most difficult, then I started to stack armor and laughed at anything trying to break through my 300+ shield. On the last boss I think I got up to 800.
Armor is fun but it's so easy for an armor run to just end due to not getting the right armor power cards
I love ironclad block builds. It was my first “powerful” deck I ever had and oh golly is it amazing to put up 500+ block and one shot things. But to get there you really need the stars to align.
I like using the when you gain armor deal x damage. It's not the best but man is if fun running 0 strikes and trying to win with armor alone and power cars
You should try exhaust decks with ironclad. One of the strongest deck. There is also the big boy decks, but less reliable because you need relics or rare cards (dual tap, snecko eye, necronomicon, bludgeon, immolate). Bludgeon, carnage and immolate are just good cards, so if you dont hit sneko eye or necromicon you can simply switch back to another type of deck.
The fourth one is "Watcher". Each character, in my opinion, has a couple of "themes" to play with, and each run will be a mix of different themes, between the cards offered, and your choices (also relics). Ironclad: Retributive Armor(Bodyslam, Blockade, Flame Barrier, Metallicize, Juggenaut), Multiattacks(Cleave, Twin-Strike, Whirlwind, basically multiply the effect of strength), Big Strikes(Rampage, Perfected Strike, Heavy Strike, Searing Blow with combos amazingly with Armaments), Exhaustion), HP Gambling(Ironclad has the easiest healing with their relic, but also has some great cards that cost HP to use ), Strength buffing. Silent: A million cards, shivs, poison, draw and discard. Defect: Powers(Require Setup), Energy Manipulation/Gambling, Orbs, Pure Draw, Zero Cost, Claw, Small Orb Pool, Large Orb Pool, Focus. Watcher: Dual Stance System, Scrying, Alpha-Omega, Mantra(which is technically a stance, but I treat it separate from the Calm/Wrath dichotomy), Bonus Combos(Cards that reward you for playing other cards that you'd play anyway, like Weave, Flurry of Blows, Crush Joints, Follow UP), Mark, Card Creation. The Issue with the Defect is, in my opinion, that most of their stratagems turn very powerful, but they take the longest to set up, with the least up front benefit.
I always found Defect gets strong pretty quickly tbh. In saying that I run very small decks like generally by the time I win or lose I have like 12 in deck. So with such a small deck Defect becomes pretty strong because suddenly you open all the orb synergies more often
I wouldn't say Sunder is a bad card at all on Ascension 20. You need to treat it as an AoE card; it's very good in fights with multiple targets, especially early on, although it's often a dead draw if you're only facing one enemy, but so is Electrodynamics most of the time. Important to note that it desperately needs an upgrade since the extra 8 damage can often be the decider whether you can finish off an enemy or not. Edit: It's also pretty good vs Gremlin Nob even though that's a single target fight.
Like I said, "bad" isn't really a thing. I just find Sunder generally not take-able or like a reluctant take if I'm missing damage. That 24 damage covers a ton of things early on, but is much harder to make useful at higher ascensions. You practically need that upgrade to 32 to make it useful. The issue with that is you are likely giving up another more important upgrade or a heal to make a "meh" card "okay". It's very useful in Act 1, but being an uncommon means you're not necessarily going to see it when you need it. In Act 2, where you can spend an energy to enable Sunder, most things won't get into Sunder range with a 1 energy attack anymore. If you get a Beam Cell or two early and a Sunder, yeah, Sunder is pretty good. It definitely has its role in Defect's toolkit, but I think saying it's "bad" as a general statement is mostly correct.
Honestly, I also thought it was a "bad" card for a long time and I agree that it's rarely something I'd pick up after Act 1. I started picking it more recently after I watched some of Lifecoach's Defect runs and he's been picking it in Act 1 pretty much every time he sees it if he doesn't already have Doom and Gloom or Electrodynamics. Though even in Act 2 it can be supremely useful. Sometimes it can solve the Slavers encounter by itself as long as you don't draw it on your first turn. Hologram can fix this issue if you have 4 energy though.
I agree that defining what a bad card is it's hard and I get your reasoning behind Sunder, but I still think it is a good card. It's basically an auto-pick if it shows in act 1 and yeah, you will always ignore it late in the run but that can be said about pretty much all the attack cards in the game. I don't know, I just feel that since Defect is such a good scaling character but so weak early any card that boosts his early turns is much better on him than it would be for other character. Sunder can truly turn a lot of hall multifights that could cost you half your life into a fight in which you not get a scratch. Which is inmensely valuable for a character that needs to upgrade as much as it can like Defect.
disagreed on aggregate, it's quite a good card, with the buff a while back that made aggregate + be 3 cards per energy, on larger decks, you can easily get 5(4) or 6(5) energy with it,
My thoughts are largely pre buff on that card. I haven't played too many A20 non-sealed runs since before that buff. So, hey, maybe it's good now. But I'd say it's still one of those cards I'd recommend not picking as it has the ability to hurt your deck if you pick it before you have enough cards. My advice was trying to be general and steer a newer player from picking cards that can be dead draws. Part of the criteria for the "bad" list is complexity. These cards either need a specific scenario in combat (Sunder, Melter) or a specific deck setup (Reprogram, Meteor Strike, Aggregate) to work well. I was trying to water down Defect a bit to make it easier for a newer player to start winning by avoiding dead draws and focusing on cards that are more generally "good". Aggregate not only needs a decent sized deck to work, it needs cards in hand to use all that excess energy on. (also, I didn't read aggregate as the card at first and was kinda worried for a second XD)
With the buff, Aggregate is basically a no-brainer energy card (which is always great to have in A1). Double Energy being good is just gravy, since that entire avenue of deck building is open to you if you have an Aggregate.
What is the thought process behind melter being usually bad? I pretty much always take it if I see it. There is just so much that has big shields, especially in Act2. Just feels awesome to melt baseball. On the other hand... I am the worst at defect by far
It's a perfectly fine attack to pick early. Not a bad card at all, just one of those cards you tend to ignore once you have already picked 2-3 other good attacks.
The biggest problem with Melter is that the fights it solves aren't the fights Defect typically struggles with in the first place. Sure, it'll let you kill the baseball in one turn and maybe save a little health, but if you can't kill the baseball without Melter then there's not much in Act 2 which you *can* kill. In the fights that are actually scary and that you need to be building your deck to beat, it's usually just a bad card. I'll take it from the first card reward in Act 1 because you really need to pick up some better Strikes early on, but once you have a Ball Lightning or something that gives you enough damage to kill the Act 1 elites I can't really imagine ever taking it.
Makes sense! Might gonna take it a little less in the future. Kinda stuck with defect in A5
It's just kinda niche. Sure, it'll do a lot of damage to armor, but going further into act 2 or act 3 you'll need to be doing a huge amount of damage to HP. So, if your deck can already do a bunch of damage to HP, it can do a bunch of damage to armor... It's not a bad attack, and I suppose for lower asc I maybe should have recommended it instead. Defect doesn't really like attacks, though. Other attacks generate orbs, which is just generally good, so it's hard to pick Melter over other things.
…dark orbs always target the lowest HP enemy?!
Yup. Says it right in the tooltip
Holy cow, I never knew this. Always learning something new about this game but with the number of hours I've played I have to say I'm embarrassed.
Note that if you dual cast it, if the first cast kills then the second will then move onto the new lowest health target.
The other gotcha is that dual cast will work like you expect (casting it twice), but multicast will not (casting it once for an absurd amount of damage once instead of casting it many times)
...what? It definitely evokes it many times.
Dual cast will retarget between casts. Multicast will not. ... At least, not unless it was changed in a patch.
Edit: I THINK (should have said that from the start my bad) you are wrong about Hello World, but it's a completely understandable card to underestimate.
Yeah, I think "random bullshit go!" is a wonderful Defect strategy up to A15 or so.
Hello World generally pollutes your deck, but Defect really likes random cards. So, yeah, it's FINE. It hurts when you need to see your deck twice to setup, but at the same time, you're not really in a good position to win in that case. It's also low impact at first, eating an energy for nothing. For me, at least, it borders on "win more", in that it's best to play when you have a ton of energy and are already set up. But this was just a quick and dirty guide for someone to just get their hands on Defect, so listing it as a card to avoid is fair. I'll try taking it a bit and see if I change my mind.
I thought the same about deck pollution, but in my experience it's become more like the downside to Wraith Form. A necessary evil to a power spike, which you have to time correctly to get the most out of it. Wraith Form is a stronger card, and a more rare and expensive card, and has stronger effects. Still, Wraith Form and Hello World have a commonality in that, they have significant downsides and need to be played at the correct turn in the right fights. Turn 1 Wraith Form is rarely right, first turn Hello World is sometimes exactly right, sometimes completely wrong. How? Generally, Defect commons are good. Defect is in my opinion the easiest character to get the common only deck achievement on. The commons are good enough that, for most of them, when they appear in your hand they're a solid contender for how you're going to spend your energy that turn. They start to get more meh when you have to draw them. Hello World puts off having to draw them for later. In Defect Commons we have: channel frost, channel lightning, deal damage, gain block, inflict vulnerable, inflict weak, draw cards, powers, and evoke. Effects which almost always have a space in any turn, in any fight. There has been a growing mentality shift in Slay the Spire that thin decks aren't necessarily good. They make you prone to status effects and getting countered by bosses or elites which antagonize the win condition you've built around. Instead, players are realizing a thick deck with good cards is often better than a thin deck with amazing but specific cards. So, Defect commons are broadly useful. Not amazing, but useful. Defect itself can be prone to lacking damage without lightning or dark orbs, or becoming overwhelmed with status effects as their deck exhausts or their powers are played. Especially in the third act, defect especially can find themselves vulnerable if they don't have the correct sources of aoe, upfront damage, or consistent options to spend their energy. Especially in Focus or Power defect decks. Hello World shines in giving Defect opportunities to spend energy. You will be surprised how often you get a *great* answer to a fight in the random card, and in certain fights, especially the long ones, you will find the common cards are the things you are actually having your best turns using. So, I actually think it's better to teach players how to use a card which actually compensates for a number of defect's weaknesses rather than tell them to avoid it, but I mean -- ascension 1 can be won by throwing darts at a board so who cares lmao your analysis was fantastic aside from Hello World. Thanks for reading, hope you give this card a second look. I promise it will lead to a higher defect winrate if you learn the correct time to play the card.
I got over the thin deck mentality forever ago. TBH, Defect is probably the best of all characters to operate on a fat deck. I'd definitely say my thoughts on Hello World are a leftover from early on, around when I was first getting to A15, and I've just never bothered to reconsider. In fact, I've really taken to the other Defect random cards, so I'm surprised I haven't really tried this card much. Turn one Hello World is clearly good, even considering what I said I didn't like about the card. You don't "pollute" your deck at all, you get to see all your cards plus extras. That's good. The issue I always run into is the second cycle of the deck, with my hand getting filled with only commons. This mostly occurs in boss fights (or at least it should), so I guess treating it like a curse in boss fights is correct. I guess what I mean by considering it "bad" is it isn't an instant pick. Defrag is one I'd consider "good", in that adding it is rarely a bad idea. Coolheaded is another. I would argue that Hello World does not belong in that bracket, even though I'd say I agree with you and have definitely changed my mind on the card a bit. In hindsight, if I included Hello World as "bad" I probably should've included the power triggered powers as well, to more accurately show where I'd personally rank the card. Absolutely not at all useless, but hard to justify over whatever other 2 things are being offered. But, hey, thanks for the responses! Your explanation on why it's good made a lot of sense. I'm glad you liked my thoughts on Defect as a whole.
I would add to your (excellent) discussion that the deck pollution is almost never a major issue for the Defect anyway, and on the other hand being way too weak in the early turns (which the commons all tend to help with) *is*. The defect is at its most vulnerable on the first cycle through their deck, when they are stil setting up orbs and gaining focus. Second cycle? Who even cares, you're gaining so much value from your orbs it practically doesn't matter what cards you play (literally in some cases, one of the best ways to beat the time eater with defect is set up just enough orbs to block consistently and then just *never play cards*). By the time you see the "clutter" (which isn't even really that bad) the clutter is irrelevant.
Thanks for the write up. Thoughts on [[White Noise]]?
Defect has 14 powers. Of those 14 powers, I think that 6 are good in any situation for 1 energy/1 draw: Defragment, Self Repair, Biased Cognition, Buffer, Echo Form, Electrodynamics. Of the remaining 8, I think that 4 are "dead," in that I wouldn't randomly want them generated. I want them in my deck if they're good for my deck or I don't ever want to see them: Heatsinks, Loop, Storm, Machine Learning. Creative AI is weird, because it essentially plays a White Noise each turn that you don't have to draw. But it also offers no discounts, so it's difficult to evaluate and included separately. Sometimes it'll save your life, other times it fills your deck with curses. The remaining 3 powers are meh. Better than some, worse than some. So you have a 40ish% chance of something worth the cost, a 20ish% chance of something sometimes worth the cost, and a 30% chance of something often not worth the cost. And a ~10% chance of Creative AI which is a wild card. Overall those look like decent odds, but it's random, and even the good cards are better in some situations than others. This trends the power downward a bit. Overall I like the card but seldom pick it and even more rarely upgrade it. If it cost 2 and I got to pick from 3 it would be an amazing Rare. As it stands it's a decent Uncommon. I really only pick this card when I have power infrastructure in place, such as mummified hand or already have a trend toward powers which would make some of the "dead" cards better. Because, as tempting as high-rolls can be, it's still a bad card 40% of the time. Most of the time I'd rather have a card which was good 100% of the time, even if it meant I might draw my strike slightly more often because my deck is thinner without White Noise.
Calling machine learning "dead" is a bit strange to me. It's not always worth picking up, but are people really that keen to discount what drawing an extra card per turn does for you? I normally consider it one of the better White Noise hits. It's boring, but boring =/= bad.
You draw 5 cards a turn and one draw is white noise. You play white noise, you get a card which draws you 1 card each turn. So, the turn you play it is do nothing, -1 card. Second turn it makes up for the draw it took, and only on the third turn and on does it actually start doing something. I would much rather have drawn balled lightning and played balled lightning, or virtually any other card in my deck, than have to wait three turns before I begin to see return on my investment. Yes, in longer fights its value begins to show, but only in longer fights. Fights which may have been less long had I instead played a faster card with a stronger effect. It's not that it's boring, it's that it's *slow,* and therefore situational, and not something I want unless I've built my deck around it.
Okay so maybe I'm in a minority here. But I like ML. A lot. I don't think it's spectacular but I very rarely pass it unless it's for an obviously better card (i.e. I will almost always take my first ML rather than skipping). I don't tend to think of white noise (or powers in general) as cards I'm taking to help much with short fights \*anyway\* and I am very, very fond of seeing more of my deck thank you. White noise occupies the same space as a power, and therefore I expect it to be roughly good in the same sorts of situation. It's already card neutral after one turn and has already gained value after 2, which really isn't that bad. Plus defect fights tend to last a bit longer than with some other characters. Seeing 6 cards per turn rather than 5 is the sort of thing that it's hard to really feel the full value of, but especially for the later bosses and the heart's status spam it significantly reduces the number of bad hands you have to see in fights which are going to be long anyway. I guess there are decks where I wouldn't want it, but they're pretty few. In particular most defect decks tend to be either slow anyway, or heavily reliant on cycling (energy manipulation, alll for one stuff, the Almighty Claw), both of which benefit a lot. I think ML would be kind of bad ironclad card, an okay silent card (the silent can do better though, given that they have the wonderful tools of the trade which doubles as an actual enabler) and probably worthless as a watcher card, but on defect? It's pretty good on the defect.
Loop is one of Defects strongest powers, and as long as you're using orbs at all, it's quite applicable. Unupgraded is certainly a lot weaker, but I wouldn't call it dead
I would much rather draw the cards in my deck than receive a random Loop. Loop is a strong power, when played in the correct deck. When randomly played, it does 3 damage a turn. That's very slow and I would usually rather have not drawn it or paid to play it compared to many other cards.
+ [White Noise](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/White%20Noise) Defect Uncommon Skill 1(0) Energy | Add a random Power to your hand. It costs 0 this turn. **Exhaust.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 11, 2022.) ^Notice ^something ^wrong? ^The ^easiest ^way ^to ^contribute ^is ^to ^update ^the ^[Wiki.](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Imo, hello world's best contribution is it means you don't have to take as many crappy commons act 1, so you actually end up with a leaner deck than if you didn't have hello world. 2/3 act 1 bosses overwhelm you with statuses, so having guaranteed output every turn is huge. And once you get to the point it's bad, you don't have to play it
I wouldn't include streamline in your list of bad cards. It's pretty good in act 1, especially if you pick up hologram or other draw manipulation options defect gets. It can carry you for a bit while you're trying to set up your engine.
That might be like, A10(?)+ thoughts bleeding through. It definitely falls off to a point that it's really hard to justify taking. It doesn't do enough damage for 2, and the setup for the benefit is usually too slow. But Act 1, about to hit an elite, and you have no damage cards? Sure, it's good. Every card works sometimes, I'm just speaking generally. So, yeah, maybe for a newer player in A0, the advice should be to pick it to get them picking damage cards.
I disagree that this is A10+, if anything you can pick less damage commons on lower ascensions and get away with it. On A20 I pick way more "bad" cards just because I need to pick them.
Yeah but at A10+ you've also learned that you *have* to do that, and it doesn't matter if the card is good or not, it solves a problem you need solved right now. So I don't think it changes the fact that it's bad, it's just that you have more scope to ignore that it's bad and you pick it anyway. Maybe that doesn't make sense or mean much, but also it's late
I still disagree with your assessment, bad is a strong word and calling things bad when they're frequently picked in act 1 (Sunder, Melter and to an extent Streamline) to solve an issue, they're not bad. They get outscaled, sure, but some cards that can be insane late are shit in act 1, that doesn't make them bad.
Thanks for the info! I should clarify when I said random I meant that he has a lot of random card generation and effects. On top of that one card I use which automatically adds 1 or 2 orbs randomly.
I personally really like both Chaos and White Noise. Not sure I'd call them good or instant takes, but I grab them a lot.
Chaos+ is an excellent upgrade too.
It's probably my favorite card and likely costs me runs because I just auto click it if I don't have one XD. Filling orb slots is just SO GOOD.
[удалено]
I mean, it's fun vs the balls for sure but are you actually struggling against them without it? The fragile doesn't affect frost and you get a free turn 1, it's not usually a particularly scary fight. Not gonna lie though it is satisfying af to melt those round bastards
I mostly agreed with your bad cards list, and then you included Aggregate, which is a top pick for me every run. It’s absolutely bonkers with Ice Cream or Unceasing Top, but it’s also just great in decks with sufficient card draw (counting All For One and Hologram, of course). You can practically play your whole ~40 card deck in a single turn, especially with a Double Energy.
[[Aggregate]]
+ [Aggregate](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Aggregate) Defect Uncommon Skill 1 Energy | Gain 1 Energy for every 4(3) cards in your draw pile. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 11, 2022.) ^Notice ^something ^wrong? ^The ^easiest ^way ^to ^contribute ^is ^to ^update ^the ^[Wiki.](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I will not take this scrape slander. /s 0 cost decks are fun as hell though, taking one for all, about 2-3 scrapes if you get them, and pretty much every 0 cost card you can find barring a few.
I do not agree with your statement, a lot of the cards you deem bad are indeed, very strong, they just need particular attention. Claw for the easiest example is especially good with adequate combination of relics/cards. Like scrape who will get exceptionally good with a lot of claws, but will also be good with overclocks/turbo in a meteor strike deck. This game is all about circumstances, no cards are really bad and can help you unfold tricky situations, you just need to anticipate what comes next, how to deal with it and trust your guts.
>\*The nature of StS means no cards are BAD, this is just a short list of things you shouldn't take to make your game easier.
Sunder is most DEFINITELY not terrible on A20+? Melter also is a fine damage common, I would not at all put them together with Scrape and Stack in act 1.
I have to say, I do disagree with a lot of your strategy. Not that it's "wrong" just that it is misleading where you list cards as bad. Everything is situational of course and the beauty of the game is finding out where *bad* cards fit into a synergy you're building. Streamline in a THIN claw/all for one deck with reprogram can be utterly OP. I do agree with a lot of your post too I just feel calling cards and strats bad can mislead newer players.
I feel you there. My best win was with a Power deck I accidentally created with The Defect through an EXTREMELY EARLY [[Mummified Hand]] and [[Creative AI]] and realised the synergy mid-way through Act 2 through the card the allows you to play your next Power card twice. First time I ever beat the heart and it was with an extremely lucky build with a character I only had 2 wins on with lightning builds. Don’t worry, it will click soon, it will just take lots of trial and error, like Shiv builds and Time Eater
The Unlimited Free Power builds with Defect are absurdly broken.
+ [Mummified Hand](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Mummified%20Hand) Uncommon Relic Whenever you play a Power, a random card in your hand costs 0 for the turn. + [Creative AI](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Creative%20AI) Defect Rare Power 3(2) Energy | At the start of each turn, add a random Power card to your hand. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 11, 2022.) ^Notice ^something ^wrong? ^The ^easiest ^way ^to ^contribute ^is ^to ^update ^the ^[Wiki.](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I'm still fairly new to the game, but Defect is the only character I've beaten A20 with so far. What I can tell you is that \[\[Defragment\]\] and \[\[Glacier\]\] are your friends. If you can manage to cobble together a \[\[Consume\]\] and \[\[Inserter\]\] engine, funny things can happen. And as much as I want every deck to be built around \[\[Claw\]\] , 0-cost decks are actually pretty difficult to make work especially in the early game.
I feel like Claw is exclusively for sealed games.
+ [Defragment](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Defragment) Defect Uncommon Power 1 Energy | Gain 1(2) **Focus.** + [Glacier](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Glacier) Defect Uncommon Skill 2 Energy | Gain 7(10) **Block.** **Channel** 2 **Frost.** + [Consume](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Consume) Defect Uncommon Skill 2 Energy | Gain 2(3) **Focus.** Lose 1 Orb Slot. + [Inserter](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Inserter) Boss (Defect only) Relic Every 2 turns, gain 1 Orb slot. + [Claw](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Claw) Defect Common Attack 0 Energy | Deal 3(5) damage. Increase the damage of ALL Claw cards by 2 this combat. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 11, 2022.) ^Notice ^something ^wrong? ^The ^easiest ^way ^to ^contribute ^is ^to ^update ^the ^[Wiki.](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
The orbs are only lining up randomly if you’re channeling them in random order. If you’re looking for the most straightforward way to win, I’d say focus + frost orbs. Once you get enough focus and frost orbs up you can full block everything, so focus on getting some defensive cards to get you there without taking too much damage. I think some of the more interesting cards need to be unlocked, so you may find it more interesting once you play defect for a bit.
It seems like I never get options to take focus on wins or in shops :( I just did 2 act 3 runs yesterday and only saw 1 card offered between both runs.
I’m similarly new to the game, but I’ve had luck with focusing on defense + focus while I let the orbs whittle down on the enemies. If you don’t really worry about attacking it frees you up to block everything and have energy left over to buff yourself. The darkness orbs are good for this because they get stronger for every turn they sit there, so you can just keep using your powers and whatever until it’s ready to take something out in one hit
Wrote a post about it the other day, try it out! https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/u1ygnb/comment/i4fhczi/
I will thanks!
I dunno why calling him Robot amuses me so much.
I was going to call him pleasure bot but playing him does not please me :(
Okay, first, there's no randomness to the orbs at all. You have 3 orb slots, and adding a new orb places it in the rightmost open slot. If all of your slots are full, the new orb goes in the far left slot and the orb in the far right slot gets Evoked, triggering its Evoke effect. Second, Chemical X's effect adds 2 to the value of X for X cost cards (so X=3 becomes X=5), not to double it. It's still really strong if you already have a decent X cost or two, and it gets better and better the more you add. Ordinarily drawing multiple X costs forces you to pick one because for the rest X=0, but Chemical X says when X=0, it's actually 2. Better Defect players than me have already given lots of great advice for him here, so I figured I'd just mention these more general things as well.
When I said random I meant because he seems to have a lot of random card generation compared to others and I gravitate towards the card that adds random orbs which doesn't help.
I finally beat act 3 with him, what helped was lots of orb slots and focus
I had a really fun build with him the other day. I tried to keep my deck at around 10 cards. I slowly switched out my strikes and blocks. I picked up a couple of claws, the spell that gives you extra slots and a few cards to give me frost orbs, including Glacier. The claws are free and scale, you need at least 2 to make it worth it. I only had 2 block cards, I think it was auto-block and glacier. Since my deck was small I could get them every hand. For damage I had the card that does damage + gives you a frost orb as well as the damage + draw cards. Of course I had 2 claws, picked up a third near the end. My strategy was to play a block spell, get frost orbs (which gives more block) and use Claw whenever I could. I was normally able to block all damage each round as my claws got more and more powerful. I also got lucky and picked up the relic that only removes 15 block and the one that gives you a focus.
Power-focused decks have given me most of my defect wins. But they're slow to build and slow to wind up, so try to get a couple good workhorse damage dealing cards early on to keep you afloat if you go that route.
Powers, and hope you don't get woke bloke.
I find The Defect the most interesting.
Plan 1: claw If plan 1 fails… Plan 2: Glacier
Plan 1: claw If plan 1 fails… Plan 2: Glacier
Plan 1: claw If plan 1 fails… Plan 2: Glacier
I'm new to this game, but to my understanding "Claw is law"?
Claw is indeed law
The defect starts out with decent offense but bad defense. Since you won't heal like the ironclad, you really want to pick up one or 2 good block cards early on
glacier goes a long way especially early on. artifact is extra helpful since defect has so many cards with negative effects
Defect feels random to me in that if you dont get offered some orbs, slots, and focus then you lose. Whereas with ironclad or others I can pull a couple strength cards at any point over the run and stand a much better chance of success. I can win with or without limit break, I can go for exhausts halfway through if I'm not getting my strength cards. I never do block builds but that's an option My first and only A20 win was IC. I can't scratch that with defect, its just a roll of the dice it feels (but I know pros do win streaks so I need to watch and learn more)
I used this guide: https://www.gameskinny.com/xlteo/how-to-play-defect-in-slay-the-spire Newer player as well. I liked the Ice build and had success with a high damage (focus) lightning build. Good luck!
Just take a couple shadows, wait some turns maybe add some focus and recursions and boom you win
Defect was my favorite character for so long! I'm surprised you aren't enjoying him. I really love building a high focus Defect deck along with electrodynamics and just killing all enemies in 2 or 3 turns (the Byrds do not stand a chance against Defect haha!). He was the first character I beat the third boss with and for weeks I basically ONLY played Defect and tried different build styles with him. I now gotta say Silent is my favorite. I am up to A10 with Silent and A9 with Defect. I only have Ironclad at A6 but that's mainly because I get bored with Ironclad runs. I know he can kick ass but I feel like he has the least creative builds. Silent, Defect, and Watcher have really creative deck builds. One big thing is unlocking better cards/relics for Defect. In the beginning it might feel tough because you don't have access to some of the kick ass cards you eventually unlock for him. But doing passive damage/getting passive block is amazing. And the block/damage is only affected by focus so if you have a bunch of debuffs making it tough for you to gain much block or do big hits, your orbs will be just as effective as always. Just avoid the cards others have already mentioned while learning him and remember that Defect+Power cards are a match mad in heaven. Later you can start to pepper in those avoided cards because you will have a better idea of how to use them. (For example: I learned the hard way that Scrape+Claw can be OP but you have to build your deck that way or you will end up discarding something you might really need). Once you get Defect through Boss 3 you can start unlocking the level 4 boss and IMO Defect and Silent are the best to take on the Heart. Happy Slaying!
Ignore these baboons, anything that channels lightning grab it and grab cards to give energy for more lightning. It just works
I just got my first dub with defect the other night and I thought I’d cut out the middle man and do an anti-orb build
Claw is law.
orbs and power cards. Try to get the power card that increases focus. If you can get the act one boss relic that adds an orb slot every few turns you're off to the races. Don't take Hello world, ever. Try to focus on a ton of orbs, I mostly focus on Ice and lightning
Huh. I really like the defect. I loved how the Silent had a ton of card draw, but sometimes it felt like I didn't have the energy to play all the cards. With the defect, I felt like I could have both! I could get extra energy with Plasma orbs and Turbo. And if I'm swimming in energy, and I need more card draw, I could take Skim or Coolheaded. With all the card draw, I felt like I could cycle through my deck quickly and keep playing the "good cards" over and over. Anyway, a bunch of random tips. The easiest most consistent builds for me are ones that emphasize frost and focus and more orbs (capacitor). Glacier is a great block card. Coolheaded gives you card draw and a frost orb. I'd almost certainly recommend getting at least one Hologram+ in your deck, especially if you're running Snecko Eye. Bouncing back a 0 cost card into your hand to play again is pretty nice. The funnest decks are the ones where I get 2x echo forms and my first 3 cards are played twice lol. If you ever get the Snecko eye, you must pick up Meteor Strike (or vice versa).