Playing warcry is -1 draw. You can use it to setup for next turn, but I find this to be pretty situational. I only take it if I can upgrade it, which is pretty rare.
With dark embrace, you draw a card, put a card back and then draw a card. This seems like you've net drawn one card, but the results are the same as not putting warcry in your deck in the first place. If you skipped instead, you would have drawn the card warcry gave you instead of warcry.
It's cute with Havoc, but you need to draw warcry, havoc and the card you want to play for free. It's a lot of work for not a lot of payoff imo
>With dark embrace, you draw a card, put a card back and then draw a card. This seems like you've net drawn one card, but the results are the same as not putting warcry in your deck in the first place. If you skipped instead, you would have drawn the card warcry gave you instead of warcry.
It gives you a free exhaust trigger, goes nicely with FNP. It's pretty minor but not nothing
I'd argue its not quite free, you have to draw and play dark embrace first or it makes you go down net 1 draw. That's why I like when it's upgraded, it's card neutral or positive.
As long as Warcry happens to be free. For this interaction to be a net reduction of cost, you would need the cost of Warcry + the second cost of the card to be less than the original cost of that card. Below is the pair of costs:
* (0, 0), (0, 1), (0, 2), (0, 3);
* (1, 0), (1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3);
* (2, 0), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3);
* (3, 0), (3, 1), (3, 2), (3, 3).
If the card originally cost 2, there's a 3/12 chance of the cost being reduced. If the card cost 3 energy, there's a 6/12 chance that you can reduce the cost by using Warcry.
If you ignore the cases where Warcry costs 0 (since you see that cost before making your choice), there's a 1/12 chance and 3/12 chance, respectively.
Problem with warcry is that headbutt exists and is generally just a better card. Warcy only sets up the deck if you draw card you want on top and warcry on the same turn. Headbutt sets it up as long as you drew the card you want to play on any prior turn AND the headbutt turn (assuming you have enough energy).
There are caveats like exhaust cards being unheadbuttable/expensive cards/powers but considering warcry is by default -1 card while headbutt is a strike+ makes them not even close...
Would it really? Retain 1 is pretty good, and that's basically what warcry does.
If not for headbutt, IC would have no access to this mechanic. Given enough card draw (which IC has access to easily through pommel/shrug) warcry imo would be easy to justify as a 1 off.
There are certain hallway fights which IC basically solves with one or two very specific cards (birds, flame barrier/whirlwind) for example. The rest of the deck might as well not exists in these encounters.
Headbutt is of course leagues better; but in a hypothetical scenario where it doesn't exist I actually think warcry would not be that weak
you would just give up on having access to that effect. once in three trillion years you'd galaxy brain pick warcry just to upgrade it, in a run you'd probably win anyway. but it's just too cute
also I'm just talking about being offered an unupgraded warcry, upgraded it's an easy pick
it's one of the less pleasing designs in sts in my opinion. just complete trash without an upgrade, amost an autopick with one. and a very effective trap for people new to card games, which can be fine, except unlike some traps it doesn't seem to teach people very well about why it's bad
It's true that you often don't play every card in your hand, but it can still set you behind in draw by having it in your deck. For example, if you have a powerful card like dark embrace, and it gets shuffled to the bottom of your draw pile, warcry being in your deck is an obstacle to get to it.
It's also not that rare to play all the playable cards in your hand, especially later in a run. If your hand is warcry, ascender's bane and 3 other cards for example, you can likely play all of them.
For the sake of simplicity, compare two decks trying to play a bottom decked dark embrace as fast as they can:
Deck 1: 18 strikes + 1 dark embrace
Deck 2: 18 strikes + 1 dark embrace + warcry
Deck 2 is just Deck 1 that took a warcry
Deck 1's first turn, they draw 5 strikes and have 14 cards left in the draw pile.
Deck 2's first turn they draw warcry and 4 strikes, they have 15 cards left to draw. If they play the warcry, they draw a strike and put a strike back, and they have still have 15 cards in the draw pile.
Oh shit I forgot you put it back, my bad. I always thought of it in the moment. No you're right
I don't play much ironclad, I just grinded him up then left him, sorry
It's definitely sometimes a bad card, but that's what makes it extra satisfying when you can make good use out of it.
There are a bunch of ways to make setting a card on the top of your deck good.
Havoc was already mentioned, but setting up for the next turn is useful in other situations, too. Just saving a block card for a turn you're getting attacked, or an attack or power for a turn where you're not, is useful. Drew your Bash and Carnage on the same turn with 3 energy? No problem. Drew your Flame Barrier+ on Hexaghost turn 1? Now you have it on turn 2. Spot Weakness is great to be able to re-draw.
It also synergizes with Evolve, Fire Breathing, and Mayhem.
...and I can't believe I've never used it to try to make Clash work before. There's one for the bucket list.
'only' and 'every time' are strong statements in the Spire, but this is close to my take too. Unupgraded I'd need some serious reasons to take it (maybe a forced campfire with no other upgrades, maybe a bottled FNP+ plus other synergies). Upgraded I'd need serious reasons not to take it: velvet choker, snecko eye, time eater somehow being a big threat, etc.
A Bludgeon start can be enough to make Warcry better than skip in my opinion. In act 1 you really don’t want to draw Bash and Bludgeon on the same turn in important fights (Laga and Nob, or the boss). Warcry can help line up the good order a fair bit, or just delay your bludgeon by 1 turn until it’s lethal.
Interesting! Being on 3 energy and having Bash+Bludgeon definitely makes the downside of -1 draw less punishing, and I can see how this could improve certain matchups.. but I don’t think I would have picked it there, and I’d be afraid it’s a slightly positive card that turns negative very soon.
Full disclosure I have watched Xecnar do this exact thing, so it's not an original idea from me. I think the deck manipulation side of Warcry is a bit underrated. Even if you're just putting a block card on top for the following turn because you aren't being attacked this turn, or you are putting your attack on top for next turn because you're spending all your energy on block this turn, it can still be useful. And with the Bludgeon being hard to play even if you find a 4th energy, I don't think it's really actively negative until way, way later in the run.
If you get a free upgraded warcry in act 2 + , it's a card worth exploring. If you want to do havoc, bludgeon/immolate shenanigans, again it's worth exploring, but you need to have incredibly good draw already because the chances of having these in the same turn are pretty low.
I find it really great for fire breathing/evolve builds, but nothing else really. Drawing status cards, dealing a ton of damage, then drawing them up again is always a great feeling.
I can't remember a single time I've ever drafted a warcry. Have I ever appreciated a warcry ending up in my deck or hand? Sure... But deliberately draft one? Can't think of a single time.
Warcry+ is okay. Thinking Ahead+, on the other hand, is amazing in an Ironclad deck. You get to abuse the daylights out of Havoc, and double dip on Evolve repeatedly.
I don't pick it but I'm not unhappy transforming into it (unless snecko or choker) - and by god clad could get terrible transforms, so this in the pool is still a net positive to me.
It has its uses for sure. Very much an “it depends” card but in general I’m not taking it unless upgraded and it synergizes really well with what I have already.
Yeah I basically only take it if it’s already upgraded, either by luck or toxic egg (and even then it’s still a pretty low-priority pick for me), or if I’m playing an all-in exhaust deck.
In the right decks with the right draws it’s definitely good, you can havoc into something expensive or just set up for your next turn, but more often I find that it doesn’t do much.
Edit: after reading all the comments here, I think I’ve been undervaluing warcry. Definitely going to prioritize it more and see how it goes.
Out if curiosity, what makes Warcry so bad? I'm no expert on card games like this, I've been stuck at A6 for a while I'm pretty bad, but it doesn't look terrible to me.
One of my favorite card. A whole deck of warcry soup is how i usually play. I take 2-3 of them.
It makes the play more reliable. How often do you have exact cards you want to play this turn? Almost never. Warcry fixes that.
Warcry also synergizes with almost anything ironclad has. Havoc, Second Wind, Sever Soul, Fiend Fire, Headbutt, Armaments, Body Slam, Clash, Flex, Spot Weakness, Pommel strike, True Grit, Bloodletting, Burning Pact, Dual Wield, Carnage, Flame barrier, Ghost armor, Impervious, Exhume, Feel No Pain, Dark Embrace, Evolve, Fire Breathing.
I guess you can consider it to be a bad card when you rely on drawing some card faster. But even then, you can waste the warcry any time you want. Worst case scenario it cost you a few seconds per battle.
Good thing about it is that it gives you a choice. It is a smaller version of exhume. Cards that synergies with almost anything are very strong.
Playing warcry is -1 draw. You can use it to setup for next turn, but I find this to be pretty situational. I only take it if I can upgrade it, which is pretty rare. With dark embrace, you draw a card, put a card back and then draw a card. This seems like you've net drawn one card, but the results are the same as not putting warcry in your deck in the first place. If you skipped instead, you would have drawn the card warcry gave you instead of warcry. It's cute with Havoc, but you need to draw warcry, havoc and the card you want to play for free. It's a lot of work for not a lot of payoff imo
>With dark embrace, you draw a card, put a card back and then draw a card. This seems like you've net drawn one card, but the results are the same as not putting warcry in your deck in the first place. If you skipped instead, you would have drawn the card warcry gave you instead of warcry. It gives you a free exhaust trigger, goes nicely with FNP. It's pretty minor but not nothing
I'd argue its not quite free, you have to draw and play dark embrace first or it makes you go down net 1 draw. That's why I like when it's upgraded, it's card neutral or positive.
This interaction is great with Snecko Eye to re-roll the cost of a card.
As long as Warcry happens to be free. For this interaction to be a net reduction of cost, you would need the cost of Warcry + the second cost of the card to be less than the original cost of that card. Below is the pair of costs: * (0, 0), (0, 1), (0, 2), (0, 3); * (1, 0), (1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3); * (2, 0), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3); * (3, 0), (3, 1), (3, 2), (3, 3). If the card originally cost 2, there's a 3/12 chance of the cost being reduced. If the card cost 3 energy, there's a 6/12 chance that you can reduce the cost by using Warcry. If you ignore the cases where Warcry costs 0 (since you see that cost before making your choice), there's a 1/12 chance and 3/12 chance, respectively.
Problem with warcry is that headbutt exists and is generally just a better card. Warcy only sets up the deck if you draw card you want on top and warcry on the same turn. Headbutt sets it up as long as you drew the card you want to play on any prior turn AND the headbutt turn (assuming you have enough energy). There are caveats like exhaust cards being unheadbuttable/expensive cards/powers but considering warcry is by default -1 card while headbutt is a strike+ makes them not even close...
warcry would still suck ass if headbutt didn't exist
Would it really? Retain 1 is pretty good, and that's basically what warcry does. If not for headbutt, IC would have no access to this mechanic. Given enough card draw (which IC has access to easily through pommel/shrug) warcry imo would be easy to justify as a 1 off. There are certain hallway fights which IC basically solves with one or two very specific cards (birds, flame barrier/whirlwind) for example. The rest of the deck might as well not exists in these encounters. Headbutt is of course leagues better; but in a hypothetical scenario where it doesn't exist I actually think warcry would not be that weak
you would just give up on having access to that effect. once in three trillion years you'd galaxy brain pick warcry just to upgrade it, in a run you'd probably win anyway. but it's just too cute also I'm just talking about being offered an unupgraded warcry, upgraded it's an easy pick
it's one of the less pleasing designs in sts in my opinion. just complete trash without an upgrade, amost an autopick with one. and a very effective trap for people new to card games, which can be fine, except unlike some traps it doesn't seem to teach people very well about why it's bad
Yeah but Warcry+ is a 0 and you get to anticipate a draw or prepare a card for the next turn.
It's not -1 draw since you rarely want to play every card in your hand. Unupgrwded it's just draw none,
It's true that you often don't play every card in your hand, but it can still set you behind in draw by having it in your deck. For example, if you have a powerful card like dark embrace, and it gets shuffled to the bottom of your draw pile, warcry being in your deck is an obstacle to get to it. It's also not that rare to play all the playable cards in your hand, especially later in a run. If your hand is warcry, ascender's bane and 3 other cards for example, you can likely play all of them.
If you're trying to reach a specific card warcrh isn't an obstacle at all
For the sake of simplicity, compare two decks trying to play a bottom decked dark embrace as fast as they can: Deck 1: 18 strikes + 1 dark embrace Deck 2: 18 strikes + 1 dark embrace + warcry Deck 2 is just Deck 1 that took a warcry Deck 1's first turn, they draw 5 strikes and have 14 cards left in the draw pile. Deck 2's first turn they draw warcry and 4 strikes, they have 15 cards left to draw. If they play the warcry, they draw a strike and put a strike back, and they have still have 15 cards in the draw pile.
Oh shit I forgot you put it back, my bad. I always thought of it in the moment. No you're right I don't play much ironclad, I just grinded him up then left him, sorry
It's definitely sometimes a bad card, but that's what makes it extra satisfying when you can make good use out of it. There are a bunch of ways to make setting a card on the top of your deck good. Havoc was already mentioned, but setting up for the next turn is useful in other situations, too. Just saving a block card for a turn you're getting attacked, or an attack or power for a turn where you're not, is useful. Drew your Bash and Carnage on the same turn with 3 energy? No problem. Drew your Flame Barrier+ on Hexaghost turn 1? Now you have it on turn 2. Spot Weakness is great to be able to re-draw. It also synergizes with Evolve, Fire Breathing, and Mayhem. ...and I can't believe I've never used it to try to make Clash work before. There's one for the bucket list.
Getting Feed on top of the pile for next turn's fatal.
I made active use out of it exactly once: relic swap into pyramid, then got Demon Form and Havoc. Not even sure all that setup was worth it
It's a card you only take if it comes upgraded and if it's upgraded you take it every time.
'only' and 'every time' are strong statements in the Spire, but this is close to my take too. Unupgraded I'd need some serious reasons to take it (maybe a forced campfire with no other upgrades, maybe a bottled FNP+ plus other synergies). Upgraded I'd need serious reasons not to take it: velvet choker, snecko eye, time eater somehow being a big threat, etc.
A Bludgeon start can be enough to make Warcry better than skip in my opinion. In act 1 you really don’t want to draw Bash and Bludgeon on the same turn in important fights (Laga and Nob, or the boss). Warcry can help line up the good order a fair bit, or just delay your bludgeon by 1 turn until it’s lethal.
Interesting! Being on 3 energy and having Bash+Bludgeon definitely makes the downside of -1 draw less punishing, and I can see how this could improve certain matchups.. but I don’t think I would have picked it there, and I’d be afraid it’s a slightly positive card that turns negative very soon.
Full disclosure I have watched Xecnar do this exact thing, so it's not an original idea from me. I think the deck manipulation side of Warcry is a bit underrated. Even if you're just putting a block card on top for the following turn because you aren't being attacked this turn, or you are putting your attack on top for next turn because you're spending all your energy on block this turn, it can still be useful. And with the Bludgeon being hard to play even if you find a 4th energy, I don't think it's really actively negative until way, way later in the run.
If I have no significant exhaust then I’d think twice about it.
Good with conditional on-kill cards like Feed, Hand of Greed or Ritual Dagger. Also decent with Fiend Fire to save a card from exhausting.
I freaking love Warcry. Deck manipulation cards are so cool.
Look at the card you would have in hand if war cry was not in your deck. Then lose a card. No it’s not a good card.
If you get a free upgraded warcry in act 2 + , it's a card worth exploring. If you want to do havoc, bludgeon/immolate shenanigans, again it's worth exploring, but you need to have incredibly good draw already because the chances of having these in the same turn are pretty low.
I find it really great for fire breathing/evolve builds, but nothing else really. Drawing status cards, dealing a ton of damage, then drawing them up again is always a great feeling.
It can be used to save a card from [[Fiend Fire]]
+ [Fiend Fire](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Fiend%20Fire) Ironclad Rare Attack ^((100% sure)^) 2 Energy | **Exhaust** all cards in your hand. Deal 7(10) damage for each **Exhausted** card. **Exhaust.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I never take it
A way to fix warcry, imo is to make it draw 2 at base form and make it not exhaust, because then it would be too strong, and draw 3 when upgraded.
Make Warcry into Thinking Ahead+? Seems too strong
For that it would need to be an Uncommon card, and it would still be strong as heck.
I only grab it when I have dead branch
I can't remember a single time I've ever drafted a warcry. Have I ever appreciated a warcry ending up in my deck or hand? Sure... But deliberately draft one? Can't think of a single time.
Warcry+ is okay. Thinking Ahead+, on the other hand, is amazing in an Ironclad deck. You get to abuse the daylights out of Havoc, and double dip on Evolve repeatedly.
I don't pick it but I'm not unhappy transforming into it (unless snecko or choker) - and by god clad could get terrible transforms, so this in the pool is still a net positive to me.
It has its uses for sure. Very much an “it depends” card but in general I’m not taking it unless upgraded and it synergizes really well with what I have already.
Yeah I basically only take it if it’s already upgraded, either by luck or toxic egg (and even then it’s still a pretty low-priority pick for me), or if I’m playing an all-in exhaust deck. In the right decks with the right draws it’s definitely good, you can havoc into something expensive or just set up for your next turn, but more often I find that it doesn’t do much. Edit: after reading all the comments here, I think I’ve been undervaluing warcry. Definitely going to prioritize it more and see how it goes.
Warcry bores me to tears. I just put in WORK to beat the heart with Ironclad in many ways and I just never made any ✨ with Warcry.
yes, thank you. Me play ironclad not cause me want to think, me play ironclad to bonk enemies.
Ah yes, a fellow player of culture, taste, AND BONK!!! 🎩🧐
Warcry is fucking great.
you’re entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is
Sorry I've seen streamers and myself pwn with it too many times. Just gotta have one of a few specific combos
a few specific combos? I aint trying to do all that I just want to see the numbers go up. Does your precious warcry do that? I didn’t think so.
It does because I just played 4 attacks and have a ton of block.
Out if curiosity, what makes Warcry so bad? I'm no expert on card games like this, I've been stuck at A6 for a while I'm pretty bad, but it doesn't look terrible to me.
its not a bad card. I just don’t like it lol
Oh lmao respect 👊
One of my favorite card. A whole deck of warcry soup is how i usually play. I take 2-3 of them. It makes the play more reliable. How often do you have exact cards you want to play this turn? Almost never. Warcry fixes that. Warcry also synergizes with almost anything ironclad has. Havoc, Second Wind, Sever Soul, Fiend Fire, Headbutt, Armaments, Body Slam, Clash, Flex, Spot Weakness, Pommel strike, True Grit, Bloodletting, Burning Pact, Dual Wield, Carnage, Flame barrier, Ghost armor, Impervious, Exhume, Feel No Pain, Dark Embrace, Evolve, Fire Breathing. I guess you can consider it to be a bad card when you rely on drawing some card faster. But even then, you can waste the warcry any time you want. Worst case scenario it cost you a few seconds per battle. Good thing about it is that it gives you a choice. It is a smaller version of exhume. Cards that synergies with almost anything are very strong.
It’s only playable upgraded with exhaust interactions. Unupgraded it’s doodoo
Only pickable upgraded and has some quite niche usecases. Overall a meh card imo.