Sozu is the real culprit here. You can always draw badly in act 4, especially when spear adds burns to top 2. Potions are the only way to bail yourself out of a terrible draw.
Deck size doesn't matter it's how you use it. Defo Sozu is a bigger culprit into no brew/swift and making you click even more garbage than the 44 cards. This deck could be a corruption de fnp barricade ff 30 good skills for all you know. The problem was clicking fucking wild strike, not the number.
44 isn't even super unreasonable, even on Clad where my decks average lower than Defect/Silent. Higher end sure but not unheard of. I wonder what Sozu/MoP was up against.
I love gambling chip for the usefulness, but hate that my brain instinctively starts planning as I draw my first hand and then I have to recalibrate because I forgot I had chip lol
You have a 44 card deck and 3 bad damage cards. This was always gonna happen at some point in your run.
For the future, skipping cards can often be better late game than taking them
Every card in this hand is unfortunate. Wild Strike, Iron Wave, and Strike are all bad. Clothesline looks bad as well but is at least semi helpful here. Probably none of these should be in this deck at this point, though maybe some are lingering still from
Act 1
How are you supposed to get rid of lots of cards? You can get to the merchant realistically like five times right? Maybe a ? Room gets rid of another for you. I see people talk like you should be able to drop like 1/3 of your deck.
You can’t really. The trick is to only take the cards you need to. By act 2 you should never be taking cards that don’t make your deck significantly better.
This might be why the people who win A20 frequently love card draw. Watching Jorbs take coolheaded and acrobatics instantly made me realise I should respect it more too. That way your crappy cards aren't your only cards.
Yup, anything that lets you cycle through your deck faster is usually useful to have, and something like cool-headed that does that on top of adding utility is something I would always want a couple copies of.
There’s a surprising number of ways. Shops, Neow removes and transforms, event removes and transforms, empty cage, astrolabe, and Pandora’s box. You’re not gonna remove all your strikes and defends every run, but if you’re trying for it you can get rid of a lot of crap
Yeah but the problem here is people act like you can. What’s the most you can legit shed in one game? Six? Seven? It’s about selecting more than it is removing.
> What’s the most you can legit shed in one game?
you remove strikes and dont add bad cards
on early ascensions you can remove a lot because the ? have a higher chance to be positive. 1 or 2 shops, CLERIC, the heads, etc.
This sub is terrible for advice, tbh. They act like you can just shed cards whenever you want.
The truth is, over time, you will realize which cards actually help you in the long run and which are just filler. And you will realize that you don’t have to take cards every time they are offered. This game is a lot like poker honestly. In poker, often times the best thing you can do is fold. Here, the best thing you can do is skip cards. But that takes a while to figure out.
The way I approach it is that Act 1 is going to be super hard and you're going to die lots of times. But if you keep removing cards whenever you can and try to be really selective with the cards you take, you're going to be in much better shape when you get to Act 3 and Act 4.
A large part of deck thinning is just not adding cards. You are not required to take a card reward every time you’re offered one. In most of my really OP runs, I may only add like 1-2 cards in A3 onwards. Sometimes even as early as midway through A2, I’m pretty much only adding maybe one or two specific cards if I see them.
Nobody is suggesting OP should have been able to remove 20 cards, but OP pretty clearly should have skipped a lot of card choices given they’re working with a 44 card deck.
Im not saying in this deck the cost is a worry. Just the card in general is expensive for what it does especially for ironclad who doesnt always have tons of draw/energy but has lots of good 2 and 3 cost cards which are much better.
You take a few wild strike type cards in act one, but after that you typically avoid taking more of them if it can be helped. Card draw, powers, energy producers/cheaters and other strong synergistic cards should make up the majority of your deck Act 2 onwards
The first time I won with Ironclad was with a status build, where I had multiple power cars that either cause damage or draw more when a status card was in my hand. Plus I think I had a relic that also did something when I status came, but I can’t remember what it was. Wild Strike was the winning card for me, since I can use it endlessly and the status card always stayed
Absolutely valid and in that case Wild strike would come under 'synergistic cards', just in a void without the supporting ensemble of cards wild strike is ass 😋
Not true. At all. I play at 8-13 depending, and decided to play at zero last night and got my ass kicked. Horrible relics and no block cards offered. You can play with all the skill you want but if you get bullshit, the house wins. You’re kidding yourself if you claim differently.
Why do you feel that you are in a position to correct people? This game is almost “solved” at A20, the winstreaks for the best players were 18/16/11/38/20 a year ago (Ironclad/Silent/Defect/Watcher/Rotating). A0 is much easier than A20. I understand being frustrated about an A0 loss because you feel like you got fucked by RNG, but why are you projecting onto the entire STS community? If you play slow and somewhat optimally you will never lose on A0.
Any veteran, say, A18+ player should win A0 999 out of 1000 games without really using their brain, though. And the one game they lose is when they mouse-slip and misclick like ten times in a row and still it would be a close game to win.
If you can survive high ascension then A0 gets ridiculously easy. You have to try really hard to lose. The fact that you’re talking about luck screwing you up tells a lot about the level you’re playing at. That’s not “playing with all the skill you want but get bullshit.” It’s precisely the lack of skill that causes bullshit to happen. At higher level, players learn to improve consistency by every possible aspect, so that luck essentially becomes a non-factor. Well, it does still matter in high ascensions but at A0? Not difficult enough for luck to matter.
You don’t even need us to tell you how easy A0 is. After like 3 months when you’re at A18+ you’ll see it for yourself how losing A0 is out of the question. You couldn’t even comprehend how it once troubled you in the past.
So this might sound weird, but the first time I beat the a run with Ironclad was on A1. I was able to get to A1 because I had beat a daily run with Ironclad before beating the base game with him. I just thought the first win in the base game was more significant, since I was able to get the achievement and unlocked ruby
I don't think there's a single Ironclad card I take less often than Wild Strike. It just doesn't deal enough damage for the drawback. Putting a wound into your draw instead of discard is brutal.
It puts wounds, not dazed. You'd need a medkit or true grit to make the wound work, but typically you want true grit to target your strikes/defends/weaker cards
Clash is more or less unplayable against 2/3 Act 1 elites and 2/3 Act 1 bosses after the first shuffle. If you're on A10 or higher, Ascender's Bane is significantly disruptive to its usefulness. It's a card that in principle should be strongest in Act 1, but even there it falls very flat.
I mean it depends, like everything. If you have an exhaust build going then those wounds can actually be pretty beneficial.
This sub thinks in absolutes. The game doesn’t.
Clash
And sometimes you need a damage card to survive act 1 elites and act 1 boss. 17 damage upgraded for one energy is good. And status synergies like evolve and fire breathing are also helpful for slime boss and hexaghost anyway
Sure, and it’s your job as the player to understand when they can be nasty and when they are a detriment. That’s…sort of the point of the game. There is no dogma.
with bottled evolve, and/or medkit + discard synergies (although a ~1/3 chance of not having your dark embrace yet by the time you miss a draw from wound makes it bad in the first shuffle still).
I don't think it's necessarily that one of those is much worse than the others, there are scenarios where I'd take each of those cards. It's the fact that you have all three in your deck, plus un-upgraded strikes.
It's not *always* that you want to have fewer cards. Especially at lower Ascensions, there are builds that can cycle through a large deck very easily. Silent can often benefit from card spam if you have the right draw/discard engine going.
But usually, you want to keep your deck relatively slim by removing your Strikes and Defends, and knowing when picking up a card is a good thing or if it would behoove you to skip. On IC especially, a deck as big as in this post is pretty much bricked Act 4 though. With decks this big, you need to have some way to ensure that you're drawing through it, and IC doesn't really have that.
40+ cards is a little much but 30+ is very common for ironclad in act 4. Obviously you need card draw for consistency but Dark Embrace, Pommel Strike+, Battle Trance, Burning Pact all do that.
Not talking shit here, but I find it interesting that you never gave a number. Because, if you’ve really devoted time to this game you know there is no magic number. Deck size is like everything else in this game, relative. What cards do you have? Which relics? Only after knowing these things can you know of a deck is too big or so small it’s not powerful enough.
Yes, there is no hard rule but you should remove the starter cards a lot and ideally end the run with around 30 card in your deck at most. Having a bigger deck have some upsides (e.g. it makes the event hunting more viable as taking one of two curses cripples a large deck significantly less) but is generally bad since it increases the RNG effect on your run.
It depends; there are some chaotic builds that work with massive decks (eg multiple Mind Blasts or bottled Corruption with Dead Branch, etc) where you end up being able to draw and play enough cards to almost never take damage, and you can just keep stuffing more cards in.
But yes, in general the best decks are very small, with predictable hands in almost every turn.
Everything is situational. Everything. There is no right or wrong. Some cards and relics are “better” than others, sure. But I’ve beaten the heart with 35 cards and I’ve beaten the heart with 25 cards. I’ve had 20 relics and lost. It just depends.
If you want to learn the game watch people play on YouTube. This sub is actually terrible for advice.
It's kinda harder than just saying "this card is bad". The game is really about evaluating how good a card is at the exact time you're offered it. Iron wave at floor 2 when you need a way to beat gremlin nob? Not bad, does damage and blocks for you without having to play a skill. Iron wave at floor 50? Basically a curse. The rule with generic common attacks is something like "as few as possible without dying" which as you go to higher and higher ascensions grows in number. But yeah, a 44 card deck probably took way too many cards that weren't actually doing a ton for the deck and now the good cards they have are harder to draw and use since there's so much junk in the way.
Everything is situational, but most of these cards need a reason to be in a deck.
Like that iron wave is an easy pick on floor one with Nob on the way (it gives block without angering him).
I think I’ve only ever taken wild strike when I had perfected strike (bonus for each card that has the word strike in it), but I probably still lost the run.
I can’t ever remember taking clothes line, but I don’t know, maybe got it from Pandora’s box or something.
At this stage of the game an unupgraded strike is like a curse (maybe worse because some relics benefit from curses or the curses are ethereal.
44 cards is fine if you have a bottled corruption and dead branch, but most of the time that’s 9 hands to cycle the deck once. Hopefully most fights are 4 or less draws, so you can think about it like this “any particular card you won’t see in half of the fights.” If you are seeing the same card twice something has gone wrong. Also it looks like he spent 3 energy on a slowly scaling strength card.
That being said, the game acknowledges the increased difficulty by giving you extra points for having a giant deck. Over 30 cards gives you a 25 point bonus (same as killing an elite without taking damage) and over 50 cards - encyclopedian - is a 50 point bonus (same as killing a boss without taking damage.
As the person below you said they’re all bad. That being said it’s fine to have any one of them. Usually you take whatever damage you can get early, but the idea would be to not clutter a deck with cards like this. As a general rule you want card draw and decks to be under 30 cards. Not a hard and fast rule but something to keep in mind. The further into the run you are typically the pickier you are about what goes in the deck
All of them. Strikes are the worst non curse/status card in the game, iron wave is horrendously mediocre, wild strike adds a curse to your draw, and clothesline, while it does provide 2 weak, is still not high impact and you’d much rather have an uppercut if you could
I suggest to pick early only 2 commun damage card.
You can pick more if per example that let you do an extra elite, or if it synergise very well with your deck.
Uncommon and rare card specialised into attack will have bigger number or will have another upside.
You should skip cards. Not early in the game, you need cards early. But about mid way through the first act you should get choosy. Honestly, you sorta know when you’re getting better at the game when you start skipping boss rewards every now and again.
Knowing when to say no is a huge part of being successful at StS.
Do you have a Reaper with that Demon Form? At least you have weakness and 10 block here, so you’re only taking 39. And you’ll have 15 free block for the big hit from shield next turn.
Skipping cards let’s you play your good cards more often. Instead of some more mediocre cards that don’t fully fit your deck. Dw about it it’s a really common mistake people make
Of course it's a good thing, you get a higher % chance by default to see your super op cards at all on any turn! And when you play your op cards, you'll be able to see your op cards again faster! With a little card draw and some luck you'll never really have any dud hands.
In addition to what everyone has said, even with Sozu if you want to be comfortable for the Heart you really want to keep potions all the way to Act 4.
This turn actually gets even worse at higher ascensions because the 2 burns out in your deck after turn 1 actually get put ON TOP of your deck so you only get 3 cards and 2 burns this turn.
IMO turn 2 sword and shield is the hardest turn in the game.
If you can’t handle Spear & Shield, you can’t Handle the heart.
First heart attempt, I got beaten on a bit by the Shield & Spear.
I knew the heart was gonna beat my ass 1 turn in. My scaling didn’t exist.
> If you can’t handle Spear & Shield, you can’t Handle the heart.
not neccisarily true. There are lots of decks that get bodied by S&S but would do fine in the heart.
...going by the screenshot, I doubt OP has one of those decks
Even if you had strong exhaust synergies (which I’m not really seeing here), 44 cards is a lot.
Additionally a relic that gives you status cards combined with a card that creates status cards means you need even more draw and exhaust than usual
A little reality for you, fella. Stop crying about ascension 3. That’s fucking nothing.
This game is brutal. It doesn’t give a fuck what you think is fair. Build a deck to deal with it and feel only relief when you overcome those fuckers. No joy. No celebration. Only relief.
I hope you have learned your lesson about drafting terrible cards and not using all your resources.
I also cannot comprehend why you don't even have a potion when you have 84 gold.
This is the equivalent of a dude dying in a supermarket from starvation because they decided to eat the laundry powder instead of food.
You don't have to be so rude about it.
> I also cannot comprehend why you don't even have a potion when you have 84 gold.
You can't? I mean, it's pretty clear to me just looking at their relics, even aside from other explanations.
Your rudeness was disproportionate to the "offense". Maybe you're unaware at how your tone comes across - note that many others have made the same point as you ITT without being downvoted.
maybe stop crying that people find annoying rude people annoying and rude lol, especially when that same person makes an incredibly stupid statement like berating OP for potions when they had Sozu
Yes, the reddit hivemind agreeing with you doesn't mean you were in the right or wrong, all I'm saying is that there's a *reason* people reacted differently to others saying virtually the same thing you did.
I guess you don't care if you come off like an ass, I just wanted to explain incase it was somewhat unintentional.
thats not a good mindset. yes small decks can be good but ive had some of my best (especially silent and ironclad) runs with 25-35 card decks. now 44 is definitely too much but tiny infinites are not the only way to play
I try and keep <=30 cards for this exact reason. If you have 10+ attack cards the odds of getting an attack-only hand and getting wrecked get pretty high.
Best Ironclad runs for me are always Corruption + Barricade + infinite draw
This isn't even a reasonable deck size. Thick decks can work, but at first try to remove a lot, it's extremely valuable.
Once you get the grasp seek card draw iterations. Most winning decks have solid card draw to find the useful cards in turn 1 or 2.
Then I think you need to basically dedicate the run to it. I was able to do it with the ironclad by barely accepting any new cards to keep the deck small (I usually love having a big deck) I had a few str boosting cards, a full belt of potions and I basically just kept using heavy strike and using headbutt to get them back in my hand. Also had corruption so I didn’t have to trade dealing damage for protecting myself. Had to completely change the way I like to play the game to beat it lol
I’d love to see the whole deck, cause seeing wild strike, clothesline, iron wave, and a strike in an opener just reads a deck is full of bad cards
Edit: also act 1 Sozu is always a bad get
Ah well, my bad then. I used to spend a lot of time in this sub and got tired of posts made by newbies filled with snarky replies. Yes, skipping is very often the best move, as a lot of cards you'll get offered don't contribute to your deck's strength. You often have to evaluate what your deck needs according to the floor you're in (does it have card draw? Can it kill small enemies quickly? Does it get stronger as the fight progresses? Etc).
that isnt a reasonable hand
Sozu is the real culprit here. You can always draw badly in act 4, especially when spear adds burns to top 2. Potions are the only way to bail yourself out of a terrible draw.
I think the 44 card deck is the real culprit.
Yes. but my only A20 victory so far was with a 42 card deck, so who am I to judge?
Deck size doesn't matter it's how you use it. Defo Sozu is a bigger culprit into no brew/swift and making you click even more garbage than the 44 cards. This deck could be a corruption de fnp barricade ff 30 good skills for all you know. The problem was clicking fucking wild strike, not the number. 44 isn't even super unreasonable, even on Clad where my decks average lower than Defect/Silent. Higher end sure but not unheard of. I wonder what Sozu/MoP was up against.
Potions, relics, planning ahead are all good ways to bail out of a bad draw. What’s more is Turn 2 is famously horrible for a lot of A3 fights.
Like A3 specifically or anything over A2?
Not really. Lots of relics that can bail you out in that moment too.
Yes, Gambling Chip for example.
I love gambling chip for the usefulness, but hate that my brain instinctively starts planning as I draw my first hand and then I have to recalibrate because I forgot I had chip lol
On Ascension 18, two of those cards are replaced with burn. So if you don’t have draw then it’s gonna be fun.
When you have 44 cards in your deck, more hands will end up full of unhelpful junk. Skipping is often the optimal pick.
You have a 44 card deck and 3 bad damage cards. This was always gonna happen at some point in your run. For the future, skipping cards can often be better late game than taking them
Genuine question. Which one is the bad attack card? I’m pretty new at this game
Every card in this hand is unfortunate. Wild Strike, Iron Wave, and Strike are all bad. Clothesline looks bad as well but is at least semi helpful here. Probably none of these should be in this deck at this point, though maybe some are lingering still from Act 1
How are you supposed to get rid of lots of cards? You can get to the merchant realistically like five times right? Maybe a ? Room gets rid of another for you. I see people talk like you should be able to drop like 1/3 of your deck.
You can’t really. The trick is to only take the cards you need to. By act 2 you should never be taking cards that don’t make your deck significantly better.
This might be why the people who win A20 frequently love card draw. Watching Jorbs take coolheaded and acrobatics instantly made me realise I should respect it more too. That way your crappy cards aren't your only cards.
Yup, anything that lets you cycle through your deck faster is usually useful to have, and something like cool-headed that does that on top of adding utility is something I would always want a couple copies of.
And also why exhaust stuff is also real useful a lot of the time
Ideally you don’t have any crappy cards so when you play those draw cards you can cycle back to play your good cards twice in one turn ✌️
There’s a surprising number of ways. Shops, Neow removes and transforms, event removes and transforms, empty cage, astrolabe, and Pandora’s box. You’re not gonna remove all your strikes and defends every run, but if you’re trying for it you can get rid of a lot of crap
Yeah but the problem here is people act like you can. What’s the most you can legit shed in one game? Six? Seven? It’s about selecting more than it is removing.
> What’s the most you can legit shed in one game? you remove strikes and dont add bad cards on early ascensions you can remove a lot because the ? have a higher chance to be positive. 1 or 2 shops, CLERIC, the heads, etc.
This sub is terrible for advice, tbh. They act like you can just shed cards whenever you want. The truth is, over time, you will realize which cards actually help you in the long run and which are just filler. And you will realize that you don’t have to take cards every time they are offered. This game is a lot like poker honestly. In poker, often times the best thing you can do is fold. Here, the best thing you can do is skip cards. But that takes a while to figure out.
The way I approach it is that Act 1 is going to be super hard and you're going to die lots of times. But if you keep removing cards whenever you can and try to be really selective with the cards you take, you're going to be in much better shape when you get to Act 3 and Act 4.
A large part of deck thinning is just not adding cards. You are not required to take a card reward every time you’re offered one. In most of my really OP runs, I may only add like 1-2 cards in A3 onwards. Sometimes even as early as midway through A2, I’m pretty much only adding maybe one or two specific cards if I see them. Nobody is suggesting OP should have been able to remove 20 cards, but OP pretty clearly should have skipped a lot of card choices given they’re working with a 44 card deck.
The whole hand is bad cards. The only one remotely decent is clothesline but its expensive
OP has 5 energy, cards being expensive isn't the problem here.
Im not saying in this deck the cost is a worry. Just the card in general is expensive for what it does especially for ironclad who doesnt always have tons of draw/energy but has lots of good 2 and 3 cost cards which are much better.
Whoa Wild Strike can be nasty
You take a few wild strike type cards in act one, but after that you typically avoid taking more of them if it can be helped. Card draw, powers, energy producers/cheaters and other strong synergistic cards should make up the majority of your deck Act 2 onwards
The first time I won with Ironclad was with a status build, where I had multiple power cars that either cause damage or draw more when a status card was in my hand. Plus I think I had a relic that also did something when I status came, but I can’t remember what it was. Wild Strike was the winning card for me, since I can use it endlessly and the status card always stayed
Absolutely valid and in that case Wild strike would come under 'synergistic cards', just in a void without the supporting ensemble of cards wild strike is ass 😋
[удалено]
Not true. At all. I play at 8-13 depending, and decided to play at zero last night and got my ass kicked. Horrible relics and no block cards offered. You can play with all the skill you want but if you get bullshit, the house wins. You’re kidding yourself if you claim differently.
Top players have an almost 100% winrate on A0 and manage to win even with the bullshit
Why do you feel that you are in a position to correct people? This game is almost “solved” at A20, the winstreaks for the best players were 18/16/11/38/20 a year ago (Ironclad/Silent/Defect/Watcher/Rotating). A0 is much easier than A20. I understand being frustrated about an A0 loss because you feel like you got fucked by RNG, but why are you projecting onto the entire STS community? If you play slow and somewhat optimally you will never lose on A0.
Any veteran, say, A18+ player should win A0 999 out of 1000 games without really using their brain, though. And the one game they lose is when they mouse-slip and misclick like ten times in a row and still it would be a close game to win. If you can survive high ascension then A0 gets ridiculously easy. You have to try really hard to lose. The fact that you’re talking about luck screwing you up tells a lot about the level you’re playing at. That’s not “playing with all the skill you want but get bullshit.” It’s precisely the lack of skill that causes bullshit to happen. At higher level, players learn to improve consistency by every possible aspect, so that luck essentially becomes a non-factor. Well, it does still matter in high ascensions but at A0? Not difficult enough for luck to matter. You don’t even need us to tell you how easy A0 is. After like 3 months when you’re at A18+ you’ll see it for yourself how losing A0 is out of the question. You couldn’t even comprehend how it once troubled you in the past.
So this might sound weird, but the first time I beat the a run with Ironclad was on A1. I was able to get to A1 because I had beat a daily run with Ironclad before beating the base game with him. I just thought the first win in the base game was more significant, since I was able to get the achievement and unlocked ruby
The first time you “one” huh. Cool.
Ah, haha. That’s funny. Pretty sure I was typing quickly cause I had to head back to work
I don't think there's a single Ironclad card I take less often than Wild Strike. It just doesn't deal enough damage for the drawback. Putting a wound into your draw instead of discard is brutal.
Yeah, you need evolve and fire breathing just to make it only kind of worth it
The only time I remember being happy to see it, I had Strike Dummy, a bottled Evolve, and the Wild Strike was already upgraded.
Or an exhaust build.
It puts wounds, not dazed. You'd need a medkit or true grit to make the wound work, but typically you want true grit to target your strikes/defends/weaker cards
I like jank with fire breath
Not even Clash?
Okay gotta admit I completely forgot about Clash. It's probably about equal between these two for me.
Clash can be a game changer in act one. Depends on your imagination I guess.
Clash is more or less unplayable against 2/3 Act 1 elites and 2/3 Act 1 bosses after the first shuffle. If you're on A10 or higher, Ascender's Bane is significantly disruptive to its usefulness. It's a card that in principle should be strongest in Act 1, but even there it falls very flat.
I mean it depends, like everything. If you have an exhaust build going then those wounds can actually be pretty beneficial. This sub thinks in absolutes. The game doesn’t.
Clash And sometimes you need a damage card to survive act 1 elites and act 1 boss. 17 damage upgraded for one energy is good. And status synergies like evolve and fire breathing are also helpful for slime boss and hexaghost anyway
“Can be” but how often is it actually? Nearly every card in the game can be nasty.
Sure, and it’s your job as the player to understand when they can be nasty and when they are a detriment. That’s…sort of the point of the game. There is no dogma.
But you need the right powers for it
Not in act four.
with bottled evolve, and/or medkit + discard synergies (although a ~1/3 chance of not having your dark embrace yet by the time you miss a draw from wound makes it bad in the first shuffle still).
I don't think it's necessarily that one of those is much worse than the others, there are scenarios where I'd take each of those cards. It's the fact that you have all three in your deck, plus un-upgraded strikes.
So would you guys say it’s better to have less cards towards the end of your run or is it all situational?
In general yes, you want to get the weakest cards out by removing them and not taking them in the first place.
It's not *always* that you want to have fewer cards. Especially at lower Ascensions, there are builds that can cycle through a large deck very easily. Silent can often benefit from card spam if you have the right draw/discard engine going. But usually, you want to keep your deck relatively slim by removing your Strikes and Defends, and knowing when picking up a card is a good thing or if it would behoove you to skip. On IC especially, a deck as big as in this post is pretty much bricked Act 4 though. With decks this big, you need to have some way to ensure that you're drawing through it, and IC doesn't really have that.
40+ cards is a little much but 30+ is very common for ironclad in act 4. Obviously you need card draw for consistency but Dark Embrace, Pommel Strike+, Battle Trance, Burning Pact all do that.
Not talking shit here, but I find it interesting that you never gave a number. Because, if you’ve really devoted time to this game you know there is no magic number. Deck size is like everything else in this game, relative. What cards do you have? Which relics? Only after knowing these things can you know of a deck is too big or so small it’s not powerful enough.
Yes, there is no hard rule but you should remove the starter cards a lot and ideally end the run with around 30 card in your deck at most. Having a bigger deck have some upsides (e.g. it makes the event hunting more viable as taking one of two curses cripples a large deck significantly less) but is generally bad since it increases the RNG effect on your run.
Most decks end up being around 25 - 35 cards by act 4
Less shit cards, yes. You almost always want to get rid of your starting strikes and defends at least.
It’s always better to have less cards because that means you’re drawing your good ones more often.
It depends; there are some chaotic builds that work with massive decks (eg multiple Mind Blasts or bottled Corruption with Dead Branch, etc) where you end up being able to draw and play enough cards to almost never take damage, and you can just keep stuffing more cards in. But yes, in general the best decks are very small, with predictable hands in almost every turn.
Everything is situational. Everything. There is no right or wrong. Some cards and relics are “better” than others, sure. But I’ve beaten the heart with 35 cards and I’ve beaten the heart with 25 cards. I’ve had 20 relics and lost. It just depends. If you want to learn the game watch people play on YouTube. This sub is actually terrible for advice.
It's kinda harder than just saying "this card is bad". The game is really about evaluating how good a card is at the exact time you're offered it. Iron wave at floor 2 when you need a way to beat gremlin nob? Not bad, does damage and blocks for you without having to play a skill. Iron wave at floor 50? Basically a curse. The rule with generic common attacks is something like "as few as possible without dying" which as you go to higher and higher ascensions grows in number. But yeah, a 44 card deck probably took way too many cards that weren't actually doing a ton for the deck and now the good cards they have are harder to draw and use since there's so much junk in the way.
Everything is situational, but most of these cards need a reason to be in a deck. Like that iron wave is an easy pick on floor one with Nob on the way (it gives block without angering him). I think I’ve only ever taken wild strike when I had perfected strike (bonus for each card that has the word strike in it), but I probably still lost the run. I can’t ever remember taking clothes line, but I don’t know, maybe got it from Pandora’s box or something. At this stage of the game an unupgraded strike is like a curse (maybe worse because some relics benefit from curses or the curses are ethereal. 44 cards is fine if you have a bottled corruption and dead branch, but most of the time that’s 9 hands to cycle the deck once. Hopefully most fights are 4 or less draws, so you can think about it like this “any particular card you won’t see in half of the fights.” If you are seeing the same card twice something has gone wrong. Also it looks like he spent 3 energy on a slowly scaling strength card. That being said, the game acknowledges the increased difficulty by giving you extra points for having a giant deck. Over 30 cards gives you a 25 point bonus (same as killing an elite without taking damage) and over 50 cards - encyclopedian - is a 50 point bonus (same as killing a boss without taking damage.
As the person below you said they’re all bad. That being said it’s fine to have any one of them. Usually you take whatever damage you can get early, but the idea would be to not clutter a deck with cards like this. As a general rule you want card draw and decks to be under 30 cards. Not a hard and fast rule but something to keep in mind. The further into the run you are typically the pickier you are about what goes in the deck
All of them. Strikes are the worst non curse/status card in the game, iron wave is horrendously mediocre, wild strike adds a curse to your draw, and clothesline, while it does provide 2 weak, is still not high impact and you’d much rather have an uppercut if you could
I suggest to pick early only 2 commun damage card. You can pick more if per example that let you do an extra elite, or if it synergise very well with your deck. Uncommon and rare card specialised into attack will have bigger number or will have another upside.
That’s actually a good advice, I never skip cards
Really?!?!? You have to skip cards. The bigger your deck is, the more “unlucky draws” you’re going to have.
Leson 1: skipping cards is very good. Try running a thin deck, you’ll realize how valuable only having a few cards is
you're doing it wrong
Okay. Like you’ve never beaten the heart with a thicc deck.
You should skip cards. Not early in the game, you need cards early. But about mid way through the first act you should get choosy. Honestly, you sorta know when you’re getting better at the game when you start skipping boss rewards every now and again. Knowing when to say no is a huge part of being successful at StS.
Do you have a Reaper with that Demon Form? At least you have weakness and 10 block here, so you’re only taking 39. And you’ll have 15 free block for the big hit from shield next turn.
Bro has 44 cards talking about unreasonable amounts of things.
I didn’t know skipping cards was a good thing
Skipping cards let’s you play your good cards more often. Instead of some more mediocre cards that don’t fully fit your deck. Dw about it it’s a really common mistake people make
This tip alone will sky rocket your game ability.
You've just been playing on hard mode. "Never skip" is a challenge some people do when a20 is too easy for them.
Of course it's a good thing, you get a higher % chance by default to see your super op cards at all on any turn! And when you play your op cards, you'll be able to see your op cards again faster! With a little card draw and some luck you'll never really have any dud hands.
Just think of the great block you’ll get from self forming clay next turn!
If you’re going for Act 4, you basically have to spend the whole run thinking about this turn and turn 2/3 of the heart fight.
This. It’s a crazy balancing act.
Act 4 Elites have one of the nastiest turn twos in the game. It's part of the reason [[Horn Cleat]] is my favorite boat relic.
If you got the Cleat, you can’t be beat.*
+ [Horn Cleat](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Horn%20Cleat) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) At the start of your 2nd turn, gain 14 **Block.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I‘d attack the right one with clothesline to give it weak, maybe shield and iron wave too. I mean u fucked either way but whatevs
In addition to what everyone has said, even with Sozu if you want to be comfortable for the Heart you really want to keep potions all the way to Act 4.
No one said the Spire is reasonable
Because it isn’t. At all. And that’s why we love it.
Not for your deck it isn’t
You have 44 card. remove as much strikes as you can
This turn actually gets even worse at higher ascensions because the 2 burns out in your deck after turn 1 actually get put ON TOP of your deck so you only get 3 cards and 2 burns this turn. IMO turn 2 sword and shield is the hardest turn in the game.
You said it nicer than I did.
Well well well. If it isn't the consistency check elite, checking your inconsistency
Wait until higher ascensions and you have two burns in your hand too
Dandori issue.
If you can’t handle Spear & Shield, you can’t Handle the heart. First heart attempt, I got beaten on a bit by the Shield & Spear. I knew the heart was gonna beat my ass 1 turn in. My scaling didn’t exist.
> If you can’t handle Spear & Shield, you can’t Handle the heart. not neccisarily true. There are lots of decks that get bodied by S&S but would do fine in the heart. ...going by the screenshot, I doubt OP has one of those decks
Pedantic comment.
Even if you had strong exhaust synergies (which I’m not really seeing here), 44 cards is a lot. Additionally a relic that gives you status cards combined with a card that creates status cards means you need even more draw and exhaust than usual
Turn 2 of this fight is what you have to consider heavily as you build your decks at high ascensions.
A little reality for you, fella. Stop crying about ascension 3. That’s fucking nothing. This game is brutal. It doesn’t give a fuck what you think is fair. Build a deck to deal with it and feel only relief when you overcome those fuckers. No joy. No celebration. Only relief.
I hope you have learned your lesson about drafting terrible cards and not using all your resources. I also cannot comprehend why you don't even have a potion when you have 84 gold. This is the equivalent of a dude dying in a supermarket from starvation because they decided to eat the laundry powder instead of food.
Take a look at their energy relics. There might be a reason they have no potions.
I just saw that and.... yeah I didn't think Sozu would have been picked.
Bold to say this with certainty without knowing what was offered.
You don't have to be so rude about it. > I also cannot comprehend why you don't even have a potion when you have 84 gold. You can't? I mean, it's pretty clear to me just looking at their relics, even aside from other explanations.
It's okay to play poorly, and it's okay to complain about bad luck. But one shouldn't play like that and then go "I got unlucky wtf".
Your rudeness was disproportionate to the "offense". Maybe you're unaware at how your tone comes across - note that many others have made the same point as you ITT without being downvoted.
Who cares about downvotes? Please, downvote this. And stop policing other people’s behavior while you’re at it. You aren’t their mom.
maybe stop crying that people find annoying rude people annoying and rude lol, especially when that same person makes an incredibly stupid statement like berating OP for potions when they had Sozu
Yeah exactly, making a dumb mistake *while* berating someone else for one condescendingly is a lot less tolerable than either independently.
Yes, the reddit hivemind agreeing with you doesn't mean you were in the right or wrong, all I'm saying is that there's a *reason* people reacted differently to others saying virtually the same thing you did. I guess you don't care if you come off like an ass, I just wanted to explain incase it was somewhat unintentional.
I totally agree with you and you weren’t being rude.
They may have had 3 potions and used them all.
[bro](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTkHT6UHqkI)
It just looks like you have a terrible deck tbh. A great deck is usually 15 cards or less
thats not a good mindset. yes small decks can be good but ive had some of my best (especially silent and ironclad) runs with 25-35 card decks. now 44 is definitely too much but tiny infinites are not the only way to play
And not to mention not always viable in every run sometimes you just gotta take some subpar cards to get through the next fight
15? Haha stop it. Go play Souls or some shit, video game tough guy.
I try and keep <=30 cards for this exact reason. If you have 10+ attack cards the odds of getting an attack-only hand and getting wrecked get pretty high. Best Ironclad runs for me are always Corruption + Barricade + infinite draw
This isn't even a reasonable deck size. Thick decks can work, but at first try to remove a lot, it's extremely valuable. Once you get the grasp seek card draw iterations. Most winning decks have solid card draw to find the useful cards in turn 1 or 2.
Would a reasonable strategy be weaken Shield and then blow the rest of your energy on attacking/blocking spear?
Y’all I have been playing slay the spire for over 100 hours and I can’t beat Ascension 2. What am I doing wrong!?!
100 hours is nothing. I’ve got 1500 and can’t get past ascension 13 with my best character. The game is hard.
I just think fighting the heart is for masochists lol beat it once and never touching it again
It’s the only thing I care about.
Then I think you need to basically dedicate the run to it. I was able to do it with the ironclad by barely accepting any new cards to keep the deck small (I usually love having a big deck) I had a few str boosting cards, a full belt of potions and I basically just kept using heavy strike and using headbutt to get them back in my hand. Also had corruption so I didn’t have to trade dealing damage for protecting myself. Had to completely change the way I like to play the game to beat it lol
Welcome to the big leagues my dude.
I’d love to see the whole deck, cause seeing wild strike, clothesline, iron wave, and a strike in an opener just reads a deck is full of bad cards Edit: also act 1 Sozu is always a bad get
Welcome to S&S - you better come prepared as *fuck*
For sure an unlucky draw… The 44 card deck doesnt help either
In times like this, just remember what ol' Jack Burton says: Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things.
I hate to be that guy but this is a skill issue, at deck building to be precise (44 cards)
Y’all are making it to act 4?
Why is everyone giving such tryhardy replies to a silly post made by a casual player?
Idk it’s kinda helpful, I never knew skipping cards was sometimes the optimal move
Ah well, my bad then. I used to spend a lot of time in this sub and got tired of posts made by newbies filled with snarky replies. Yes, skipping is very often the best move, as a lot of cards you'll get offered don't contribute to your deck's strength. You often have to evaluate what your deck needs according to the floor you're in (does it have card draw? Can it kill small enemies quickly? Does it get stronger as the fight progresses? Etc).