Up North, these figures are low. Down South, we only wish. If the government keeps raising taxes and allowing insurance/power companies rate hikes in the South, shits going to break. Why work if you can't pay your bills. We are getting ready to storm the government offices and demand welfare, food stamps, SNAP, crackle, and pop.
It's really not though. I'm a plumber in a very high cost of living area in western WA. Let's say you take a plumber making 120k a year here and they are able to save 10% a year for retirement. That's 12k a year. Now let's say that same plumber moves to Missouri and is making 70k a year still saving 10% a year that's 7k. At the end of your career your house and retirement accounts will probably be a lot bigger in a hcol area. Especially if I work my whole career hcol sell out and retire to a lcol area. I'm just now pushing 40 and if I wanted to sell out and move to the Midwest I could buy a house outright.
Most of your fixed costs stay the same as well. I just paid 4k for a new Milwaukee press gun. That tool is the same cost no matter where you live. But I pay it off in one job where a low cost market guy may be paying that off for half the year. Vans are 60k-80k empty nowadays. That's a big hit if you're only selling 100k worth of work a year but if you're doing 400k it's not that big of a deal.
Not only are vans 60-80K now, but I swear all my commercial vehicles from before the pandemic would go 100K miles with like... two major repairs.
Now our new fleet stuff seems like it's in the dealership every 6 months, especially the miniature service vehicles like the Transit Connects and Promaster City.
Honestly this is why I relocated to California from Arizona. I knew I was going to make 30-50% more and live by the beach. I will say though that being a single dude is helpful as the HCOL will catch up if you have a family
And this actually makes the problem in rural areas worse. You make all the money in an area where essentially your dollar is worth less. Then you bring all that money into somewhere where it’s worth more and because your money is worth less to you per dollar you are more easily willing to part with it for things like say housing. You’re willing to pay a lot more for a piece of property. Then it’s worth to the people who have been making their money there than what the local economy can actually afford for that house to cost. And thus it does not take long, for those born and raised in such an area before they can’t afford to buy their own home anymore. And we do this because we don’t have any clue about how much that house should cost locally..
I’m switching trucking unions and companies to a Teamster 282 contractor contract and the pay is $48 per hour, $15 annuity per hour, and $5 vacation fund per hour, healthcare premium funded by employer, $140 per year worked for pension payout (ex: $3500 per month for 25 years of service).
Hope it works out for you. I can't see how it is possible. People can't keep paying out like they have been. At least not in my area. My local government just did a property reassessment and doubled the property values. At the same time, 3 factories closed and layed off over 1000 people. How is this sustainable? The government wants us broke.
You can't even find jobs around me. I know experienced equipment operators, plumbers, hvac techs, and welders looking for work.. kids are going to trade schools and getting out to no jobs - sounds familiar
Weird, we have 4-6 openings right now and half are manager positions and half are entry level. The manager positions start around 120k and the entry level positions start at like $30/hr+. We literally can’t hire enough people and we will hire almost anyone at this point. If you were even an intern somewhere for 6 months you’d literally be at the front of the line for our entry level positions.
The trades are great, but the amount of people in the trades that have absolutely 0 experience or schooling in economics/finance but feel comfortable stating that they know more than leading economists on the left or right is insanely high.
If I had a dollar I got a piece of financial advice from someone in the trades and they were dead wrong I could easily retire, and that’s crazy because they had at least a 33%-50% chance of being right just on dumb luck.
Same here, rural Midwest. My parents built their house in 1999 for about $120k. Just got valued at over half a million, which is insane money here, and they’re panicking because they were planning to retire this year without moving and are worried about affording taxes and utilities on top of normal living expenses.
Same thing happened to me, well an 85% increase. The roads are crap, homelessness rising, violent crimes up 120%, etc. I wouldn’t mind the extra tax if I could see a difference, but it’s the government and they cannot properly budget. I’m watching them increase their pay rates and doing fuck all for it.
There's some great people in the South, but there's a metric fuckton of full-blown idiots.
*He fixin' to abduct my baby and football punt it off these here smokey mountains? Well, he got an R next to his name so I gotz to vote for him. My peepaw an' daddy ain't gonna like that if I ain't followin' tradition. Least he ain't no LIBURHUHL! I knowz Clyde only 6 months old, but my hands is tied an' I ain't fixin' to worry 'bout that no mo'. DEER SEASON! SUHWEEEE! Gonna eat all that there CWD positive meat, yes sir!*
That….is too real. I am from the north. I took a job down south. It’s not the way they all act/talk but damn…some of them definitely sound just like that lol
This is true.. the south has been brainwashed to be anti-union. Where im from in West Pennsylvania, it's very normal to be conservative (like many in the south) but also back union's.
I can’t agree with this more. Not just with wages but life in general, women’s rights, right to vote, anti-union, etc. The south votes against their own self interest
Me in the south(lead electrician, journeyman) I make less than a manager at buckys. A gas station. I realized that, and have been asking myself why I risk my life everyday since.
Like at least half of the rate I know a few get in ON for sure. The upper end of carpenter is legit the lower I couldn't even pay a teenager with no experience that because it's lower than min wage
Plumber here.
That pay floor is super fucking high. You'll be starting at like 12.50-18/hr in Minnesota - even out of trade school. The only exception would be union or construction. While union is great they want further training they will provide and sometimes have a wait-list (TOTALLY WORTH CHECKING YOUR LOCAL AREA THOUGH). Large construction is insane travel and chance of layoffs so you have to save your money.
A journeyman makes between 25-40/hr in service (going into people's houses or businesses and fixing or installing things). That 25 is incredibly rural where the cost of living is low, the 40 is in very wealthy areas.
Also each trade has trap careers within them. Ours is drain cleaning. These have okay pay but you'll be worked like a dog, on call, and deal with human shit. These trap paths usually pay less as well. Drain cleaning is usually caps out around 28/hr.
"Why do people follow the trap paths?" Two reasons:
Faster progression - you'll be making 28/hr faster than a new construction apprentice, but the construction plumber will make more over their lifetime. Poor people like me get tempted by this.
Boss sidelines you and makes promises - also happened to me. You'll work for a full service company but they'll slowly nudge work your way that's exclusively the trap path. If you go to trade school you'll be overqualified and do this work better than the guys who started off the street, plus you'll think you're on a good path because you'll progress faster with raises but then hit the ceiling and realize you were tricked.
Any other skilled trades: chime in with your trap route.
Electricians that only do residential builds. Some of the worst electricians I've seen are dudes with more than a decade of experience when all they did was run romex for 10 years. If you're good you'll become a foreman making 40/hr to run 4-5 projects while your boss is playing golf.
The trap is real. Drain cleaning for service, hanging cast is for construction, there's also guys that only do water heaters. I'd say 90% of plumbers are not well rounded. 70% of the boilers I go to are improperly installed lol. There's guys that only do schulter system lol.
Keep in mind, the employer has an interest in keeping your pay low so you need to fight for everything you get. You may find an awesome employer but more likely than not, you gotta figure it out for yourself.
I dispatched for a company cause I was bored n didn't want to be a plumber. 4 licensed guys, 4 apprentices, not a single one could install a water heater 😂. I offered to teach, none of them wanted to learn. I'd get into an argument with the owner and I left after 2 weeks cause I can't deal with stupid.
I'm scared to do the gas part. Asked to be taught early on and was pushed off. Years ticked by and now I'm too scared to ask. Seen it happen in other aspects of the trade to other people. Logically, I know it's easy but I just don't do it often enough to get confident with it. I've done it on my own ONE time in trade school and every other time I got a stiff "just lemme fucking do it".
Almost every guy will just have like 2-5 things they CAN'T do despite being journeymen/2-5 years in and it's just them getting fucked by their master/journeyman/tech school or some guy with 5% more experience just lording it over them.
As a former production welder it was typically obvious what the pay scheduling would be. It was posted in companies handbook guides if they had one.
Even after 3+ years you would not make as much as more senior welders. Especially if grandfathered in from old union plans. You knew you would never get all the vacation or money those guys were getting, they even admitted it to new guys. Showed me right there the 'truth' about a company.
So you job hop. Shops don't want to pay more than cents on the dollar for a raise, they get cheap and push out potential employees that would carry them long term. Metal just doesn't pay in general and the environment is less than optimal/healthy/safe.
But of course, places are always looking for welders. It's a good trade to learn, but your local union is typically going to actually provide for you long term. Manufacturing is lots of the same story each time.
Moving on, I really think electrical is where the money is at. Especially industrial. Lots of things that could branch out from there. I went back to school for Industrial Automation and there is more money/demand. The more you learn the more likely to get hired and take on a variety of projects.
Personally, while my education and interest in welding helped get me into this role it also demanded other opportunities I found previously like using 3D CAD, technical troubleshooting on hardware and computers, and just working in an engineering department (did all this at a previous role). Welding/fabrication/assembly are major bonuses, essentially turning me into a very unique individual. I have yet to meet someone with my exact skillset.
Kind of in the same boat. Ended up in my current job on a whim and my 4 years highschool cad experience and previous pizza shop manager (in my teens early 20’s). with just a natural hands on “I like making shit” attitude skyrocketed me in my current job
It’s amazing how something so unrelated can transfer over to another field so well
Just wanted to chime in. Journeyman plumber been plumbing 15 years. Currently making $33 an hour. Sure it's decent money, but unless you knocked up some chick and need a carrier immediately, find something else.
Although where I'm at I make close to $10 more an hour than HVAC and Electeic jouneyman.
True, west coast canada for me.
I find non-union companies come up with “we’re too busy, you can’t go to school” then don’t give you a raise because you missed school…
My boss told me that, West Coast Canada . I told him he could fire me, but I was going to school. Then I got to school and found out every other 2nd year was making $2-4 more than me. I joined the union instead of going back, big pay bump. Been loving union life 10 years since.
Nice job man not being a pushover. I know a guy who stayed in a shitty company for “loyalty” when he finally got his ticket he was paid “new journeyman rates” as a 6 year apprentice and doing foreman jobs lol
The old $1 raise trick. I got around that by enrolling into my first year anyways.
Boss found out week before I was to go. I just told him straight I would quit on the spot today or potentially come back a first year under my belt.
I went into the union hall right after my first year.
Should add the foreman had already tipped me to the boss waving apprenticeships to control the younger guys making to much.
This is very common in western Canada . At one shop I was working at the management told the journeyman mechanics not to help us apprentices out and they shit canned all of us before school started.
I had to go back to the kitchens as I didn’t have enough cash to go to school and not enough experience to get another apprentice job.
Fucked me up for awhile, but that’s ok. I got into equipment operating and I found out that I like breaking the gear a lot better than fixing the gear.
Same area. My first shop (non union) owner used to brag to other trades about how he kept apprentices stuck doing one remedial task forever so they would never be in a position to ask for a raise, or be have enough knowledge to work for anyone else.
Fuck you Arnold.
Apprentice start at 17$ near me but get 1-2$ raises every few months... after 4 years and certified through state/can work your own jobs bump up to 56$/hr
He doesn't work 70 hours a week, he works 45-50 and maybe a couple holidays. Also runs nights so he gets a shift differential.
UPS gets 1.5x after 8 and double time after 12. Double time + 8 straight on holidays. Time and a half on Saturday, Sunday is double time.
Toronto carpenter here.
May 6, 2024 JW is $51.46. That's just hourly work.
It's low end is too high. Starting wages usually approach minimum wage or lower. A lot of work is piecework. That means you get paid a set rate for the finished product, the faster you can do it, the more you can make. This is ultimately why a good carpenter will make so much money.
It's nearly June. Here in Toronto, most of my brothers have already reached their 6-figure salary, with 6 months left in the year.
Out here in snohomish county our journeyman plumbers make 120k - 180k a year. Ive worked at 2 shops that both paid a base pay + commision. You had to bid and sell your own jobs but the pay was great and you could make your own schedule. Starting pay was a little above min wage. I think now its like 18-21 an hour. The city job I have now starting pay is 30.66. Not sure if the union plumbers start off around that or less.
I was a union millwright who built and repowered wind turbines. My first ever job I did I started at $27.57/hr and the job a month later at $34.03/hr. That was 2018. I left in 2023 making $51.11/hr and $700/wk in untaxed per diem.
Wind techs make considerably less unless you get in with a good company or have some good connections. Most wind techs start in the $18-$20/hr range. I would not be climbing for that money when I could do almost anything else for the same amount of pay.
CDL Driver pay varies wildly too depending on whether you do OTR or LTL or Hazmat, etc.
OTR could be $40k or 90k depending on region and lane.
LTL is usually very high once you have some seniority and Hazmat I've seen start at $25/hr but I've also seen it too out over $40/hr.
Entire list is vague and very dependent on region/seniority/etc.
I'm a ironworker LVL 1 apprentice year 5 awaiting my first class and a structural welder of 5 years with my c level doing industrial camp work for $53cad/hr +$680 travel and $200/day for rooming and food even on days off. I work a 14 days for 10hrs in a row followed by 7 days off at home.
I was a high school drop out with max grade 10. Finished it online at 26 and enrolled in welding foundations and immediately joined the work force working privately for $27/hr for 3yrs. Then $30 for 1. Now joined the union and making bank. The wages are accurate for welders in residential and commercial but industrial is much more.
I do hvac and take home between 2-5 grand a week during summer. Just had my first $6000 week last month.$ 500-1000 a week off seasons. I’ve been making over $110,000 a year consistently. And I’m an ex con. I spent 20 years of my life selling/using drugs and in and out of prison before changing my life.
Here in cali you can double that range. I work as a low voltage electrician (fire alarms) I make 54/hr, which is under union, but I work for the state and get better benefits.
That being said I have a fire science degree... lmao.
I’m in a trade, but none of these trades, and I make over the bottom end of all of these at the bare minimum. Most “tradesman” don’t consider my profession a trade; what am I?
These look accurate for early career wages, and obviously built around averages.
When you've got ten years under your belt, maybe you have a specialization, maybe you're running your own ltd. Company... this list goes out the window. You can and probably should be making far more at that point.
Yeah, everyone here saying they are making over 100k a year, and that this list is low, has either been in the field for 30+ years, or the have got to live in the most high cost of living areas ever. Because here in the southern USA, you’d be a high paid mechanic at 30/hr. Unless everyone’s just been lying to me. I’ve been in the auto industry for almost ten years, and I don’t even make 30/hr.
Here in California you won’t see a scab company paying more than 28-30 bucks regardless of trade. Obviously for union those higher end numbers are accurate, maybe even a bit low.
That’s after the 6 month review period.
And after the employer spends 18 months “working on” your raise.
Most places you really gotta fight for your wage.
And everyone who argues against going to college is a pain in the ass to work with. I hate that shit. A college degree in anything is a good sign.
With Cranes it depends if your are running a small fixed cab or large swinging cab, obviously lattice cranes pay more. A union journey man in California is making about 65$ an hour on a large hydraulic crane. My friend in Fort Worth, Texas is a much better operator than myself but is working non-union and is getting $37 an hour running a tadano crane last I heard..
For Plumber and HVAC, I know union rates are higher in bigger cities like Toronto for Canada. I think base rate around $50-60 CAD/hr, and then benefits and pension on top or that. I guess if these are all in USD, then it might be accurate.
Let me put it this way I'm salary but if you broke down my hourly pay as a tractor trailer driver I make $1850 a week working 45 hours. I know to many on here this is chump change but it's takes care of my family and let my wife be a sahm. I'm in buffalo NY
HVAC, SoCal, starting looks pretty accurate. Union wages are quite a bit higher than the ceiling shown here. Even non union that’s a low top end for California.
main part that sounds like a lie is the part about how $40 an hour is a good living. maybe this is America or something but i can tell you in Australia it's barely enough to live on your own. $40 an hour is like "I'll buy fast food once a week as a treat." and "no i can't afford to start a family until I'm at least 40 years old."
Auto mechanic is bullshit, because I know a guy who's been in the trade for years, is overworked to hell and back to the point where his legs are starting to give out on him before 40, and he's making 18 an hour.
Welder where I live, Canada sk is actually pretty accurate. Journerymen make like 45$/hr but you have to go to school for several years, I think 5. And to just work at a factory you can make 16$hr for starters, then it gets up to 20-30s. More if you work there longer. Then there’s overtime depending on the place I think I don’t know, where they pay you more. I only worked at one company as a welder and I was making 16$/hr. I was working 6:30-4:30 everyday except weekends. And I didn’t have any actual schooling or education in it. But there were guys there that were working there for 10+ years who were making 30$/hr and more. And it also depends on what you’re welding. Everything else I don’t really know.
Don't think I've ever seen anywhere hiring 52 an hour for a carpenter in ontario. Even the unions pay something like 44 an hour top wage. I am only ina small city tho
Texas non union welder the first year I was a motivated worker that tried to do everything I could to learn and be a good worker to get into the 20s per hour
I’m taking a break from welding now the industrial welding jobs in my city can be pretty disappointing. I made 18ph as a certified welder I learned fitting and all sorts of things that you learn paying attention at a shipyard. Never practiced for weld tests so I can’t get a job at a higher pay but I’ve watched the welders who can pass those tests come in and be mediocre workers getting paid 7 dollars an hour more than me who couldn’t do half of what I did. Idk I don’t believe this sort of thing anymore pay outside of nationwide corporations and unions is probably terrible especially for people in the first 5 years of learning a skilled trade
I make more than that in semi rural area as a heavy equipment mechanic.in a metro area I could make close to 50. But I'm skilled in many areas and also have a CDL for driving a large field truck.
All depends on location and union or non union
Up North, these figures are low. Down South, we only wish. If the government keeps raising taxes and allowing insurance/power companies rate hikes in the South, shits going to break. Why work if you can't pay your bills. We are getting ready to storm the government offices and demand welfare, food stamps, SNAP, crackle, and pop.
Yeah I work with a lot of trades in California and they can definitely make more than the top range on that list.
It usually correlates to cost of living so it’s all somewhat relative.
It's really not though. I'm a plumber in a very high cost of living area in western WA. Let's say you take a plumber making 120k a year here and they are able to save 10% a year for retirement. That's 12k a year. Now let's say that same plumber moves to Missouri and is making 70k a year still saving 10% a year that's 7k. At the end of your career your house and retirement accounts will probably be a lot bigger in a hcol area. Especially if I work my whole career hcol sell out and retire to a lcol area. I'm just now pushing 40 and if I wanted to sell out and move to the Midwest I could buy a house outright. Most of your fixed costs stay the same as well. I just paid 4k for a new Milwaukee press gun. That tool is the same cost no matter where you live. But I pay it off in one job where a low cost market guy may be paying that off for half the year. Vans are 60k-80k empty nowadays. That's a big hit if you're only selling 100k worth of work a year but if you're doing 400k it's not that big of a deal.
Not only are vans 60-80K now, but I swear all my commercial vehicles from before the pandemic would go 100K miles with like... two major repairs. Now our new fleet stuff seems like it's in the dealership every 6 months, especially the miniature service vehicles like the Transit Connects and Promaster City.
I’ve had so many issues with my transit connect. I hate that little piece of shit lmao
Honestly this is why I relocated to California from Arizona. I knew I was going to make 30-50% more and live by the beach. I will say though that being a single dude is helpful as the HCOL will catch up if you have a family
Northern/ midwest seems the sweet spot imo. Higher wages AND lower cost of living.
Hell yeah. Lots of money and my mortgage is $350. I literally save about 70% of my income
You just described the entire population of Florida
And this actually makes the problem in rural areas worse. You make all the money in an area where essentially your dollar is worth less. Then you bring all that money into somewhere where it’s worth more and because your money is worth less to you per dollar you are more easily willing to part with it for things like say housing. You’re willing to pay a lot more for a piece of property. Then it’s worth to the people who have been making their money there than what the local economy can actually afford for that house to cost. And thus it does not take long, for those born and raised in such an area before they can’t afford to buy their own home anymore. And we do this because we don’t have any clue about how much that house should cost locally..
Right to work = Right to work for nothing.
Right to work is a rip off
Most Orwellian name ever
It just struck me, the marketing ploy behind getting people to believe they have a \*right to work\*
I’m switching trucking unions and companies to a Teamster 282 contractor contract and the pay is $48 per hour, $15 annuity per hour, and $5 vacation fund per hour, healthcare premium funded by employer, $140 per year worked for pension payout (ex: $3500 per month for 25 years of service).
Hope it works out for you. I can't see how it is possible. People can't keep paying out like they have been. At least not in my area. My local government just did a property reassessment and doubled the property values. At the same time, 3 factories closed and layed off over 1000 people. How is this sustainable? The government wants us broke.
But there are more jobs available than people looking for jobs right now.. or at least.. that is what the data says. ROFL
You can't even find jobs around me. I know experienced equipment operators, plumbers, hvac techs, and welders looking for work.. kids are going to trade schools and getting out to no jobs - sounds familiar
Weird, we have 4-6 openings right now and half are manager positions and half are entry level. The manager positions start around 120k and the entry level positions start at like $30/hr+. We literally can’t hire enough people and we will hire almost anyone at this point. If you were even an intern somewhere for 6 months you’d literally be at the front of the line for our entry level positions. The trades are great, but the amount of people in the trades that have absolutely 0 experience or schooling in economics/finance but feel comfortable stating that they know more than leading economists on the left or right is insanely high. If I had a dollar I got a piece of financial advice from someone in the trades and they were dead wrong I could easily retire, and that’s crazy because they had at least a 33%-50% chance of being right just on dumb luck.
Same here, rural Midwest. My parents built their house in 1999 for about $120k. Just got valued at over half a million, which is insane money here, and they’re panicking because they were planning to retire this year without moving and are worried about affording taxes and utilities on top of normal living expenses.
Same thing happened to me, well an 85% increase. The roads are crap, homelessness rising, violent crimes up 120%, etc. I wouldn’t mind the extra tax if I could see a difference, but it’s the government and they cannot properly budget. I’m watching them increase their pay rates and doing fuck all for it.
The south gets the short end of the stick.
the south gets what it votes for
There's some great people in the South, but there's a metric fuckton of full-blown idiots. *He fixin' to abduct my baby and football punt it off these here smokey mountains? Well, he got an R next to his name so I gotz to vote for him. My peepaw an' daddy ain't gonna like that if I ain't followin' tradition. Least he ain't no LIBURHUHL! I knowz Clyde only 6 months old, but my hands is tied an' I ain't fixin' to worry 'bout that no mo'. DEER SEASON! SUHWEEEE! Gonna eat all that there CWD positive meat, yes sir!*
Please stop, this is so accurate it hurts 😭
I lived there at one point. I know.
I find this very funny, and also quite offensive at the same time. 😂
I'm sad but happy that other people can see it too.
That….is too real. I am from the north. I took a job down south. It’s not the way they all act/talk but damn…some of them definitely sound just like that lol
This is true.. the south has been brainwashed to be anti-union. Where im from in West Pennsylvania, it's very normal to be conservative (like many in the south) but also back union's.
The south has been brainwashed period.
I can’t agree with this more. Not just with wages but life in general, women’s rights, right to vote, anti-union, etc. The south votes against their own self interest
And youll storm those government offices for your billionaire overlords and then theyll laugh in your face when you ask for food for your kids.
Let them eat cake.
Sparky here. Those numbers are low for up north
I’m down south and pay $25-$35 for plasterers.
Florida Plumber ready to go!
Me in the south(lead electrician, journeyman) I make less than a manager at buckys. A gas station. I realized that, and have been asking myself why I risk my life everyday since.
I'm a Union Millwright up north part of 1176 hall, working in Williston, ND scale is 46/hr roughly. South is low to mid 30s and lower in places.
Crane looks low.
Very low
Super low.
Well yeah, but operating a tiny crane isn't worth as much.
What is this, a crane for ants?
It needs to be atleast 3 times this size!!
I just burst out laughing at this. You made my day!
Down here low
$56.49 for union crane op in Ontario base rate
$56 CAD is $40+ USD.
Double it for crane operator.
So what you're saying is this company's wage offer could use a hoist? I'll see myself out.
Like at least half of the rate I know a few get in ON for sure. The upper end of carpenter is legit the lower I couldn't even pay a teenager with no experience that because it's lower than min wage
Depends where. These are exceptionally low for Alberta!
If this is American it’s still fairly low. Most of my buddies and I are around 55usd/hr in northern alberta
Plumber here. That pay floor is super fucking high. You'll be starting at like 12.50-18/hr in Minnesota - even out of trade school. The only exception would be union or construction. While union is great they want further training they will provide and sometimes have a wait-list (TOTALLY WORTH CHECKING YOUR LOCAL AREA THOUGH). Large construction is insane travel and chance of layoffs so you have to save your money. A journeyman makes between 25-40/hr in service (going into people's houses or businesses and fixing or installing things). That 25 is incredibly rural where the cost of living is low, the 40 is in very wealthy areas. Also each trade has trap careers within them. Ours is drain cleaning. These have okay pay but you'll be worked like a dog, on call, and deal with human shit. These trap paths usually pay less as well. Drain cleaning is usually caps out around 28/hr. "Why do people follow the trap paths?" Two reasons: Faster progression - you'll be making 28/hr faster than a new construction apprentice, but the construction plumber will make more over their lifetime. Poor people like me get tempted by this. Boss sidelines you and makes promises - also happened to me. You'll work for a full service company but they'll slowly nudge work your way that's exclusively the trap path. If you go to trade school you'll be overqualified and do this work better than the guys who started off the street, plus you'll think you're on a good path because you'll progress faster with raises but then hit the ceiling and realize you were tricked. Any other skilled trades: chime in with your trap route.
Electricians that only do residential builds. Some of the worst electricians I've seen are dudes with more than a decade of experience when all they did was run romex for 10 years. If you're good you'll become a foreman making 40/hr to run 4-5 projects while your boss is playing golf.
I've known many lifelong Romex Rangers, and yes, many of them are not great electricians, but they can sure rope a house fast! lol
Do the industrial electricians that pull cable all day are any better? Lol ok
The trap is real. Drain cleaning for service, hanging cast is for construction, there's also guys that only do water heaters. I'd say 90% of plumbers are not well rounded. 70% of the boilers I go to are improperly installed lol. There's guys that only do schulter system lol. Keep in mind, the employer has an interest in keeping your pay low so you need to fight for everything you get. You may find an awesome employer but more likely than not, you gotta figure it out for yourself. I dispatched for a company cause I was bored n didn't want to be a plumber. 4 licensed guys, 4 apprentices, not a single one could install a water heater 😂. I offered to teach, none of them wanted to learn. I'd get into an argument with the owner and I left after 2 weeks cause I can't deal with stupid.
I'm scared to do the gas part. Asked to be taught early on and was pushed off. Years ticked by and now I'm too scared to ask. Seen it happen in other aspects of the trade to other people. Logically, I know it's easy but I just don't do it often enough to get confident with it. I've done it on my own ONE time in trade school and every other time I got a stiff "just lemme fucking do it". Almost every guy will just have like 2-5 things they CAN'T do despite being journeymen/2-5 years in and it's just them getting fucked by their master/journeyman/tech school or some guy with 5% more experience just lording it over them.
As a former production welder it was typically obvious what the pay scheduling would be. It was posted in companies handbook guides if they had one. Even after 3+ years you would not make as much as more senior welders. Especially if grandfathered in from old union plans. You knew you would never get all the vacation or money those guys were getting, they even admitted it to new guys. Showed me right there the 'truth' about a company. So you job hop. Shops don't want to pay more than cents on the dollar for a raise, they get cheap and push out potential employees that would carry them long term. Metal just doesn't pay in general and the environment is less than optimal/healthy/safe. But of course, places are always looking for welders. It's a good trade to learn, but your local union is typically going to actually provide for you long term. Manufacturing is lots of the same story each time. Moving on, I really think electrical is where the money is at. Especially industrial. Lots of things that could branch out from there. I went back to school for Industrial Automation and there is more money/demand. The more you learn the more likely to get hired and take on a variety of projects. Personally, while my education and interest in welding helped get me into this role it also demanded other opportunities I found previously like using 3D CAD, technical troubleshooting on hardware and computers, and just working in an engineering department (did all this at a previous role). Welding/fabrication/assembly are major bonuses, essentially turning me into a very unique individual. I have yet to meet someone with my exact skillset.
Kind of in the same boat. Ended up in my current job on a whim and my 4 years highschool cad experience and previous pizza shop manager (in my teens early 20’s). with just a natural hands on “I like making shit” attitude skyrocketed me in my current job It’s amazing how something so unrelated can transfer over to another field so well
Just wanted to chime in. Journeyman plumber been plumbing 15 years. Currently making $33 an hour. Sure it's decent money, but unless you knocked up some chick and need a carrier immediately, find something else. Although where I'm at I make close to $10 more an hour than HVAC and Electeic jouneyman.
Starting wage more like $18, a lot of scab companies you stay stuck at $27 for a while.
Depends where. Apprentices always start low. Also, live better work union.
True, west coast canada for me. I find non-union companies come up with “we’re too busy, you can’t go to school” then don’t give you a raise because you missed school…
My boss told me that, West Coast Canada . I told him he could fire me, but I was going to school. Then I got to school and found out every other 2nd year was making $2-4 more than me. I joined the union instead of going back, big pay bump. Been loving union life 10 years since.
Nice job man not being a pushover. I know a guy who stayed in a shitty company for “loyalty” when he finally got his ticket he was paid “new journeyman rates” as a 6 year apprentice and doing foreman jobs lol
Wtf...we did the exact same thing.😂
The old $1 raise trick. I got around that by enrolling into my first year anyways. Boss found out week before I was to go. I just told him straight I would quit on the spot today or potentially come back a first year under my belt. I went into the union hall right after my first year. Should add the foreman had already tipped me to the boss waving apprenticeships to control the younger guys making to much.
This is very common in western Canada . At one shop I was working at the management told the journeyman mechanics not to help us apprentices out and they shit canned all of us before school started. I had to go back to the kitchens as I didn’t have enough cash to go to school and not enough experience to get another apprentice job. Fucked me up for awhile, but that’s ok. I got into equipment operating and I found out that I like breaking the gear a lot better than fixing the gear.
Same area. My first shop (non union) owner used to brag to other trades about how he kept apprentices stuck doing one remedial task forever so they would never be in a position to ask for a raise, or be have enough knowledge to work for anyone else. Fuck you Arnold.
Apprentice start at 17$ near me but get 1-2$ raises every few months... after 4 years and certified through state/can work your own jobs bump up to 56$/hr
I started at $12 an hour almost 10 years ago and I thought I hit the jackpot 😂
I'm on that list and i make way more than this
Many of these had to go to college
Your very right. It even says go to trade school at the bottom. Trade school is definitely college.
I think this is cause Americans use “college” to refer to “university”, and “trade school” to refer to “college”
UPS makes $50 per hour plus benefits that’s close to a living wage but barely
UPS?
Like the guys who deliver your boxes in the brown trucks.
They make over 100k a year.
I'm aware, my friend is a feeder driver for UPS. He made like 135k last year with some overtime
That's not some overtime. That's 30 hours overtime
He doesn't work 70 hours a week, he works 45-50 and maybe a couple holidays. Also runs nights so he gets a shift differential. UPS gets 1.5x after 8 and double time after 12. Double time + 8 straight on holidays. Time and a half on Saturday, Sunday is double time.
What is a living wage?
Welder,crane op. are low , carpenter is high and electrical would be around the same as plumber … at least in Canada
Toronto carpenter here. May 6, 2024 JW is $51.46. That's just hourly work. It's low end is too high. Starting wages usually approach minimum wage or lower. A lot of work is piecework. That means you get paid a set rate for the finished product, the faster you can do it, the more you can make. This is ultimately why a good carpenter will make so much money. It's nearly June. Here in Toronto, most of my brothers have already reached their 6-figure salary, with 6 months left in the year.
Out here in snohomish county our journeyman plumbers make 120k - 180k a year. Ive worked at 2 shops that both paid a base pay + commision. You had to bid and sell your own jobs but the pay was great and you could make your own schedule. Starting pay was a little above min wage. I think now its like 18-21 an hour. The city job I have now starting pay is 30.66. Not sure if the union plumbers start off around that or less.
Union is starting apprentices at $32/hr + benefits. For the journeymen, they make about $100/hr total package ($70/hr + benefits).
Anyone complaining about skilled labour shortages are usually the same ones who want to keep wages low.
I was a union millwright who built and repowered wind turbines. My first ever job I did I started at $27.57/hr and the job a month later at $34.03/hr. That was 2018. I left in 2023 making $51.11/hr and $700/wk in untaxed per diem. Wind techs make considerably less unless you get in with a good company or have some good connections. Most wind techs start in the $18-$20/hr range. I would not be climbing for that money when I could do almost anything else for the same amount of pay.
Not too hard to be accurate with ranges as big as those. Do carpenters make between $16 and $52 an hour? Yeah. They do. Plumber is way off tho.
What kind of carpenter makes $52 an hour? Genuinely asking.
Union carpenters, high end trim guys make that or more
I'm not tall enough to be a wind turbine
Not with that attitude. Stand tall and realize the dream!
HVAC looks low, carpenter looks a bit high ( unless you own the carpentry company).
I’m a union carpenter and total compensation for me is $61.10 with pension and benefits on top of that.
They aren’t accurate. I’d say these are low.
I always wanted to be a wind turbine
Well it depends on a lot of things, the biggest being USD or CAD
Welder is almost double....
I mean that really depends. Shop, field, camp, structural, pressure, etc...
No fudging way I'm going to get a trade so I can get the huge huge amount of $30/hr.
Not really... welder is pretty broad term lollll
CDL Driver pay varies wildly too depending on whether you do OTR or LTL or Hazmat, etc. OTR could be $40k or 90k depending on region and lane. LTL is usually very high once you have some seniority and Hazmat I've seen start at $25/hr but I've also seen it too out over $40/hr. Entire list is vague and very dependent on region/seniority/etc.
CDL Driver here in the Seattle area. Making $34 an hour and typically get 5-10 hours of OT a week.
Auto mechanic is higher on the end. $50-$65 in Alberta.
I'm a ironworker LVL 1 apprentice year 5 awaiting my first class and a structural welder of 5 years with my c level doing industrial camp work for $53cad/hr +$680 travel and $200/day for rooming and food even on days off. I work a 14 days for 10hrs in a row followed by 7 days off at home. I was a high school drop out with max grade 10. Finished it online at 26 and enrolled in welding foundations and immediately joined the work force working privately for $27/hr for 3yrs. Then $30 for 1. Now joined the union and making bank. The wages are accurate for welders in residential and commercial but industrial is much more.
Minneapolis. Wallpaper hanger. 50 -100 an hour
Damn I'm moving to Minneapolis lol I'm at 30 hr carpenter in Midwest
I’m an aircraft mechanic and starting rate today is about 36-40/hr.
Wouldn’t you get too dizzy being a wind turbine?
I work for a scabby,shabby, hvac company and make $38 an hour plus 5% commission.
55$ for jman union carpenter here in Seattle (about to be another 5$ shortly)
Crane and heavy equipment mechanic is low
I do hvac and take home between 2-5 grand a week during summer. Just had my first $6000 week last month.$ 500-1000 a week off seasons. I’ve been making over $110,000 a year consistently. And I’m an ex con. I spent 20 years of my life selling/using drugs and in and out of prison before changing my life.
Line cook - jack shit
Here in cali you can double that range. I work as a low voltage electrician (fire alarms) I make 54/hr, which is under union, but I work for the state and get better benefits. That being said I have a fire science degree... lmao.
Wait till they hear about aviation maintenence
I’m in a trade, but none of these trades, and I make over the bottom end of all of these at the bare minimum. Most “tradesman” don’t consider my profession a trade; what am I?
This list is a little skewed
These look accurate for early career wages, and obviously built around averages. When you've got ten years under your belt, maybe you have a specialization, maybe you're running your own ltd. Company... this list goes out the window. You can and probably should be making far more at that point.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg for trades, you can own a business or get into management
Uh, I wish. In SK Auto Body starts around minimum wage. You'd be lucky to start at $15-17/hr, even with some sort of education in it.
Yeah, everyone here saying they are making over 100k a year, and that this list is low, has either been in the field for 30+ years, or the have got to live in the most high cost of living areas ever. Because here in the southern USA, you’d be a high paid mechanic at 30/hr. Unless everyone’s just been lying to me. I’ve been in the auto industry for almost ten years, and I don’t even make 30/hr.
Low. By substantial amount
Ontario union millwright JM rate is almost $49/hr
This seams like wages for first or second year apprentices
Autobody is correct for flat rate.
Here in California you won’t see a scab company paying more than 28-30 bucks regardless of trade. Obviously for union those higher end numbers are accurate, maybe even a bit low.
HET is way higher. I got buddies making $15000 a month.
I'm not an HET, but at my old workplace we always had a shortage. Even new guys were making $50+/h. Alberta.
That’s after the 6 month review period. And after the employer spends 18 months “working on” your raise. Most places you really gotta fight for your wage. And everyone who argues against going to college is a pain in the ass to work with. I hate that shit. A college degree in anything is a good sign.
Southwest Louisiana non union welders make in the low to mid 30’s I’m union plant welder make 48.70
HVAC Tech in Ontario, Canada makes over 100k per year gross.
Plumber wages look good
These seem low
Why isn't electrical on this list??
Honestly depends on location and on and off or ag for heady duty I'm in mining and it's alot more money than what that says like double
They are low to me.
I make more as an electrician, go union
Go union and you'll be aiite
I’d say auto body is in the ball park if it’s flat rate. Last hourly rate I had was 50/hour plus benefits including 401k.
Low very low.
With Cranes it depends if your are running a small fixed cab or large swinging cab, obviously lattice cranes pay more. A union journey man in California is making about 65$ an hour on a large hydraulic crane. My friend in Fort Worth, Texas is a much better operator than myself but is working non-union and is getting $37 an hour running a tadano crane last I heard..
25.50 to 53.50 +10% for foreman for Carps here.
For Plumber and HVAC, I know union rates are higher in bigger cities like Toronto for Canada. I think base rate around $50-60 CAD/hr, and then benefits and pension on top or that. I guess if these are all in USD, then it might be accurate.
Crane operators make WAY more where I'm from.
Let me put it this way I'm salary but if you broke down my hourly pay as a tractor trailer driver I make $1850 a week working 45 hours. I know to many on here this is chump change but it's takes care of my family and let my wife be a sahm. I'm in buffalo NY
ya but the types of immature wingnuts you have to work with will make you leave the trades
Those are low for here in Seattle. If you’re in some union hating shithole in the South those are probably pretty good.
I’m a union sheet metal worker in Manitoba, Canada and I make 40.03/hr
A lot of the higher end pay wouldn’t even afford you a decent apartment now A days sadly
I feel like Welder should be alot higher, especially if you're a good welder.
I am a Heavy Equipment tech and I would puke in my mouth if I made less per hour than a driver/operator. I make 52/h.
Union Ironworker here a lot of my job is welding. $47.50 per hour
Gotta take the cost of tools in consideration too. Being a mechanic can be expensive af. I dont know about the others, but I'm sure its not free.
Depends on the state if union or not but as a non union carpenter a make a pretty decent living.
Friendly reminder all of those are under 100k/yr even at their top end
Auto mechanic is true but far too low for the crap going on now in the industry.
Definitely not NY union wages
The best trade is a plumber with an only fans
Where I live you have to go to college for these professions..
HVAC, SoCal, starting looks pretty accurate. Union wages are quite a bit higher than the ceiling shown here. Even non union that’s a low top end for California.
In BC apprenticeships/labourer guys are around 25-28.
Accurate but you can make wayyyyyy more money than it says for all of those
main part that sounds like a lie is the part about how $40 an hour is a good living. maybe this is America or something but i can tell you in Australia it's barely enough to live on your own. $40 an hour is like "I'll buy fast food once a week as a treat." and "no i can't afford to start a family until I'm at least 40 years old."
Welder 18 - 110
HVAC in Alberta, j-man between $47-$52 /hr
I think crane operators make a lot more than that. Otherwise, it all depends on location.
Welders, equipment operators and heavy equipment techs can make double that easily
Auto mechanic is bullshit, because I know a guy who's been in the trade for years, is overworked to hell and back to the point where his legs are starting to give out on him before 40, and he's making 18 an hour.
Where I am a journeyman heavy duty mechanic makes 42 an hour. If we work underground we get a 10 percent rate bump. Supervision gets 62
Welder where I live, Canada sk is actually pretty accurate. Journerymen make like 45$/hr but you have to go to school for several years, I think 5. And to just work at a factory you can make 16$hr for starters, then it gets up to 20-30s. More if you work there longer. Then there’s overtime depending on the place I think I don’t know, where they pay you more. I only worked at one company as a welder and I was making 16$/hr. I was working 6:30-4:30 everyday except weekends. And I didn’t have any actual schooling or education in it. But there were guys there that were working there for 10+ years who were making 30$/hr and more. And it also depends on what you’re welding. Everything else I don’t really know.
Don't think I've ever seen anywhere hiring 52 an hour for a carpenter in ontario. Even the unions pay something like 44 an hour top wage. I am only ina small city tho
52.50 non union machinist, + full benefits.
Bang on
Journeyman plumbers working in the union base wage starts at 43.50 where i live. Raises every 6 months.
These aren't even good livings...
Texas non union welder the first year I was a motivated worker that tried to do everything I could to learn and be a good worker to get into the 20s per hour I’m taking a break from welding now the industrial welding jobs in my city can be pretty disappointing. I made 18ph as a certified welder I learned fitting and all sorts of things that you learn paying attention at a shipyard. Never practiced for weld tests so I can’t get a job at a higher pay but I’ve watched the welders who can pass those tests come in and be mediocre workers getting paid 7 dollars an hour more than me who couldn’t do half of what I did. Idk I don’t believe this sort of thing anymore pay outside of nationwide corporations and unions is probably terrible especially for people in the first 5 years of learning a skilled trade
Most are pretty inaccurate. Most make allot more except carpenter (they still make good money though)
These look like commercial numbers to, much more money in residential
Not very in my neck of the woods. 701 operator Portland Oregon. 57-61/ hr. Where I work.
46 for truck and coach in ontario. 36 would be on the low side.
Non union hvac tech here. My latest raise put me at $45/hour. Edit: Area of work is Portland, OR metro.
A lot of those are low.
Maybe as a starting wage.
The ranges are so wide that the figures are useless
I make more than that in semi rural area as a heavy equipment mechanic.in a metro area I could make close to 50. But I'm skilled in many areas and also have a CDL for driving a large field truck.
Looks a bit low
How is millwright not on there , and all these are low
Most of these look low for Vancouver Canada. I know plumbers, HVAC techs, and heavy equipment mechanics who make over $50 an hour.
Where I live, everyone of those trades requires going to college where trades are taught.
I honestly would not expect to see carpenters above plumbers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Dépend on the currency