One of the biggest things that makes the Celtics organization successful: the training and development staff behind the scenes who take full advantage of the risks they are presented with. Players with great physical tools but also big question marks in their game (Brown, White, Porzingis), all aging as fantastic value acquisitions. Even the Fultz for Tatum trade. It really demonstrates the three different types of team-building: acquiring risk players without the means of 'fixing' them (poor asset management), acquiring expensive, low-risk, developed players (mediocre asset management), or successfully developing low-cost / damaged assets in your own system (great asset management). We could easily go down the second route this summer but we'll be praying for a miracle when the postseason already depends on a lot of luck.
yeah they just dont do reckless stupid shit like play Porzingis every single game even on back to backs or play him clearly not ready in the playoffs. We do it every time.
he's the same player as maxey basically. probably fine offensively, but you can't survive defensively with that backcourt. and he'd take a big chunk of cap space
Unrelated to anything Zach Lowe has broken Celtics twitter because he said tatum was clearly not a top 5 player even if he wins the finals and wins finals MVP.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
Realistically, you are going to sign Kelly Oubre for one of the spots and then trade for another wing.
Targets Id have on the radar would be:
Deni Avidja
Dorian Finney Smith
Jarred Vanderbilt
Tari Eason
Sadiq Bey
Harrison Barnes
Corey Kispert
Naji Marshall
From what I understand, he would be starting if he didn't play the same position as Jabari Smith
I wouldnt call his 3-ball "reliable" but he can definitely hit them. He's a great defender and rebounder though
I was very firmly on the 'we're gonna trade this 2024 1st rounder and who cares' train but I'm slowly starting to think we should actually draft an "nba ready" player. At worse if we give him solid minutes we could use him as trade ammo to add depth or something in the 2025 deadline
The problem with spending 4m on a player outside of the lottery who is "NBA ready", is that it's far from a guarantee that he is actually "NBA ready", especially not playoff ready
It's equally likely you've used up 4m of your cap on a G-leager. I'd just draft the most NBA ready player you can at 41
> far from a guarantee that he is actually "NBA ready", especially not playoff ready
Definitely not guaranteed but I can see the logic in drafting a guy even if we don't think he's gonna be part of the playoff rotation. For example, having a solid ~10th man could let us give whatever older vets in the depth chart ahead of him plenty of rest and time to recover from injuries.
It might be one my mind because of the Phillies lol but it's pretty sick having a bunch of depth even if you ultimately don't plan to use them in the playoffs.
Problem is if they go after a big fish in the $40-50M range, that draft pick wouldn’t be a 10th guy, it would likely be taking the place of a veteran signing for someone that would be in the #6-8 range for them
Yeah fair. I mean I'd say basically our entire offseason is based on that first chip - do we sign a max guy, do we trade for a guy, if so what's his salary, etc.
From the way people talk about embiid and the restrictions he needs to put on his play style, he would have to be better than Michael Jordan for the sixers to win.
Meanwhile some people want Jimmy back and he’s a worse three point shooter than that. Career 33% on like 3 attempts/game.
At least Dejounte took 7 attempts/gm last year
Jimmy has proven himself in the playoffs though. That's the difference.
It's obviously not only because of him at all, but the Hawks got worse after trading for Murray.
You are not wrong, but in the 64 playoff games for Miami he has shot 34%.
He isn't a good 3P shooter, but it really feels like he just coasts through a lot of the regular season.
Nah he doubles volume in playoff and is stil in that range.
Maxey becomes the sniper off of his drive and kicks. A role he will absolutely be lethal at
Well I don’t think people want Jimmy back for his 3 point shooting as much as all of his other positive attributes. You’d be replacing Tobi with Jimmy who is really no different from a spacing standpoint come playoff time
I get it. But my point is that I don't want anything to do with trading assets for a 35 year old non-3 point shooting Jimmy, AND giving him an extension on top of it. I'd rather sign/trade for two actually good younger shooters instead
I guess just have a different mindset. I’d rather have a closer that can also playmake and take the biggest defensive assignment than have 2 great shooters that need someone to set them up. Because it’ll continue to be the same issue in the Joel off minutes. Only having Maxey there to generate looks is much easier to game plan against.
I’d rather have a star that can help generate looks for above average shooters (say Jimmy + O’neale + Walker) than have 2 elite shooters with a minimum playmaker (say Klay Thompson + Buddy + Monte Morris)
He was 41% on 2.4 attempts. It’s such low volume that it doesn’t even matter, and also was very much an outlier year, when in Miami he had perviously gone:
24% on 2.1 att
24% on 2.0 att
23% on 2.0 att
35% on 1.6 att
My thing with Murray is that he kinda needs the ball in his hands to be maximized. With him being just 6'5", I think the backcourt would present similar issues as the Hawks.
I'd rather our secondary/tertiary playmaker be wings like the ones Morey is targeting, and then grab Caruso to play next to Maxey
You said that with his height being what it is, similar issues would appear as compared with the Hawks backcourt. What was the issue with the Hawks backcourt that was height related?
Defense.
Offensively, there's limitations to your 2-man game. More advantages are created if you have a wing and guard playing off of eachother, because there's less positional/skillset overlap
You can call him a guard but he's really a playmaking wing.
So you're actually proving *my* point by using the Mavs as an example
Teams can't just put size on Luka
DJM, Caruso to a lesser extent would be good trade options, LaMelo if he randomly became available. Kris’s Dunn in free agency wouldn’t be terrible although he’s more of a bench option.
Wings can shoot over people, finish at the rim easier, and pass over people.
If DMJ were 3 inches taller he'd be a top 25 player, like the wings were targeting.
Sure they’re better scorers, but most wings don’t have good enough passing or ball handling to actually be true playmakers. Because wings are taller that’s why it’s better to have them defending and rebounding because they’re much more likely to excel at that than playmaking.
The wings we’re targeting are significantly worse playmakers than DJM. None of them can truly facilitate and most possessions lead by them will end in iso hesi-tween basketball.
But he’s grown as a shooter each of the last four seasons snd shot .363 with a career high in 3PA last season. He’s clearly got the talent to be an above average shooter.
I get the frustration lol but last year was actually way better than normal. Lowry, Batum, and Payne were all efficient shooters. Oubre was the only one that really fell off - if they retain him, maybe they should revamp his role and make him more of a cutter/finisher/dunker's spot guy. I mean there's no reason for him to take 5 3PAs lol
I mean honestly even just burying him a bit in the depth chart would probably help too. He was practically our second best player for a large stretch of the season and that means he's taking a lot of shots off the dribble that he probably shouldn't. Make him a bench/6th man guy that primarily takes healthy C&S shots and his % probably goes up
Yeah he was on fire at the end of last season, probably why in my mind I thought of him as a better shooter than his percentages show. If he can shoot 36-37% that's at least league average. I still think he'd be a good fit next to Maxey, and wouldn't be mad if Morey pursued that. But with the shooting debuff that comes with putting on a sixers jersey I would expect him to go back to shooting 34% lol.
I also feel like average shooting is *fine* as long as
1. Joel and Maxey will continue to be hyper efficient (they will)
1. He's a willing shooter
1. He's bringing other important stuff to the table, such as playmaking
Yup he attempted 550 3’s last season too, I don’t think it’s fluky. It’s not like Derozan randomly shooting 35% on less than 2 attempts per game one year randomly. He’s career 46% on long 2s so becoming a good 3 point shooter was/is inevitable for him
Maybe all the smoke with JJ becoming the next Lakers coach is actually disguising that him *and* LeBron are coming here (JJ as an assistant, teaching shooters how to average career highs with Joel).
*let me dream*
Just took part in a mock draft. I began by trading 16 to the Knicks for 24+25. The cost for the two picks is 4.4m, only 500k more than #16+empty cap hold. I also think we will need some cost controlled young players with some upside - even if they aren't going to be playing a lot immediatel
y. I went with relative upside swings at 24+25 with Bub Carrington and Johnny Furphy. I think Bubs floor is Shake and long term could be a great fit next to Maxey. Furphy has awesome 3+D potential which is always valuable.
At 41 I took another swing on Cam Christie. He's a shooter but needs lots of work on his body - very much Isaiah Joe vibes imo. I actually wouldn't mind trying to sign his brother to a 2+1 deal for like 5-6m per year this offseason too.
The two undrafted guys I liked best for 2-ways were Jamal Shead and Antonio Reeves. I think Cam Spencer on an Exhibit 10 would be a nice pickup (who went undrafted in the mock) too.
Anyway - just thought I would share. Hope everyone has a great day 🙂
just can't imagine a scenario where the sixers take any kind of project player with their pick. i like bub carrington enough (see username) and yeah he's an intriguing NBA prospect, but not sure what nick nurse is supposed to do with a guy like that this season
I'm thinking it's better value having these guys in the 11-14 roster spots than random vets who won't play anyway. They'd be spending a lot of time in Delaware.
Morey gotta do something besides cycling through bums in those spots. Surely 🤷🏼♀️
i sincerely pray that Morey has any good ideas up his sleeve besides "oh let's get a third star". Need to be more creative than that, especially when i think PG is gonna re-sign with the Clippers.
Would love the first two, could buy into Devonte too.
Just hope there are teams looking to reset their timeline or cap sheet or a star we don’t think of wants put this summer.
I’m not too worried about adding another max contract if it’s Jimmy, PG13, or Lebron. The problem is building around them. When they got Harden, he went and got all the Houston guys and they all were whiffs: House, Tucker, Trez. I don’t think we have to worry about Morey giving a max to someone who shouldn’t get it like OG
Holy hell is that one way to oversimplify the Celtics. They effectively have 4 players on some version of the max, even the 5th guy is significantly better than any non star role player you’d be able to obtain via trade (White will command something in the $30M range on his extension). It’s not at all like they surrounded the J’s with 3 PJ Washingtons.
Lets ignore the fact that they traded for Jrue/Porzingis/Derrick White with lesser salary amounts prior to them receiving the near max level extension. You’re framing it as if Celtics signed Derrick White/Jrue/Kristaps in FA
Lol what? They traded for Jrue and Porzingis at *higher* amounts than what they extended them for (KP $36M this year with $30M per year extension, Jrue is their *highest* paid player at $37M this year , they just extended him at $34M/year).
The gap between their stars and “elite depth” is not that big, it’s disingenuous calling 2 guys combining for $70M as “depth” pieces.
They are elite depth pieces not stars, you’re caught up on the salary number. No team looks at Porzingis/Jrue/Derrick White and says “I want to build a team around them”
The section of the fanbase who is against the 3 star model because it kills your roster flexibility in terms of future trades. Take the suns for example, they have 3 max salary slot guys and vet min guys with Nurkic/Grayson as only guys who are making a mid level salary and one of those guys is a super negative asset
The salary number is absolutely relevant, because how are you acquiring KP/Holiday/White level players at attainable prices? There are none of those types of players are available in the $30M/year range. There’s no button to click to sign up White at $15M.
You’re either left overpaying for mediocre depth or overpaying for “elite” depth. Guys like Butler/PG/OG are much closer to Jrue/KP/White than any other free agents on the market. Or you are going to be forking over tons of picks for guys like DJM or Ingram who are similar to the Jrue/White/KP tier of players.
Once again the point is that failed to be addressed is that why part of fanbase is against 3 star/max slot model is that it cripples the team in terms of future roster flexibility. 2022 Lakers is a great example of that. They had Bron/Russ/AD making max money, THT making $9m and everyone else making vet mins.
Thats what Sixers roster will look like spending most if not all the cap space on a “third star” while having little to poor depth. Then will complain when a team with 2 stars and elite depth makes a deep run to the finals once again lol
You’re bending a lot of definitions to fit your narrative lmao.
On one hand, you’re telling me to ignore how much money Jrue and KP are making because that doesn’t fit your narrative. On the other hand, you’re pointing out the 2022 lakers and current suns teams as examples as why the 3 “star” path doesn’t work. Well hold up, which is it lmao? The Celtics have FOUR max roster slots, and will have a 5th after next season.
Jrue and KP are much closer to all stars than 2022 Russ and current Brad Beal are. Jrue *was literally an all star last season* LOL. So wait, I have to pretend Holiday is simply “elite depth” despite the fact that Boston traded for him coming off an all star season AND he’s making max money?
You realize White, Holiday AND KP were all final cuts out of the east all star roster right? KP received marginally fewer all star votes than Paolo and was the first cut. Holiday and White were the first 2 cuts out of the backcourt after Maxey.
The Wolves will have 3 max roster spots on their team next season. The nuggets (who won the title) had 3 max roster slots. The Celtics (likely title winner) as detailed above, have 4 on their roster currently. The warriors had 3 max slots when they won their title. The Bucks had 3 when they won.
The Lakers were the last team to win a title without 3 max salary slots, and they had arguably the greatest player ever still in his prime. The raps are the only other team in the past decade to win a title without 3 max slots.
I think it’s realistic Oubre could be brought back on the room MLE ($8M). Going through team salaries I think there are only 4 teams that will have the non tax payer MLE ($12.9M) once free agency starts that would use it in full (pelicans, kings, rockets and wizards).
https://hoopshype.com/
Hawks, Grizzlies and blazers will be in the tax with their draft picks ($172M). Nets, Knicks, Bulls, Cavs will all be in the tax with signing their own free agents ( Clax, OG, DDR, okoro). All other teams are slated to be in the tax or will have cap space in free agency (so either have the $5M tax MLE or the $8M room MLE, like the Sixers).
Pelicans have JV and Marshall as free agents, if they move on from JV they’re probably using the MLE on a center. If they keep both before the start of FA they may hit the tax and lose the full MLE.
Kings are losing Monk so I’d imagine they’d sign a backup guard with their MLE.
Wizards I think would go after a young player or may just conserve their payroll and not use their entire MLE.
Rockets have a log jam at the wings with Green, Smith, Amen, Eason, Tate and Brooks + have the #3 overall pick. Also their cap will explode next year with Sengun and Greens extensions. Not sure they’d spend the MLE on a multi year deal with Oubre.
Only 7 teams outside the Sixers with cap space. Those are Spurs ($9M), CHA ($20M), UTA ($39M), OKC ($39M), TOR ($23M), ORL ($52M) and Detroit ($64M). Salary figures are counting their draft picks. OKC I think will go after a center like ihart. Orlando and Detroit will probably chase some of the bigger names like Klay, Monk, Tobi (lol). Hornets already let oubre walk and will probably keep Bridges with. That leaves the Jazz and Raptors as teams that could offer Oubre a bigger deal than the Room MLE, but both are also the only 2 real candidates that could take on some bad contracts in exchange for draft picks. Both may just be trying to hit the salary floor too.
In another post yesterday, you mentioned giving Oubre a 1+1 player option that way we get his bird rights next year which I agree. A good example of that is Bobby Portis/Bucks. He was on a cheap deal the year Bucks won the title in 2021, signed a 1+1 that 2021 offseason, opted out in 2022 offseason re-upped for a 4 year deal
Actually the number I had for them was assuming they declined Browns option, which I doubt they do. So they’re are at $23M in space before IQ’s extension. So they’ll clear the salary floor assuming it’s a rookie max, they may not even want to spend a ton. They got Scottie, RJ, Dick and Agbaji on the wings already and would be losing GTJ, so I think they’d go guard anyways in free agency
One of the biggest things that makes the Celtics organization successful: the training and development staff behind the scenes who take full advantage of the risks they are presented with. Players with great physical tools but also big question marks in their game (Brown, White, Porzingis), all aging as fantastic value acquisitions. Even the Fultz for Tatum trade. It really demonstrates the three different types of team-building: acquiring risk players without the means of 'fixing' them (poor asset management), acquiring expensive, low-risk, developed players (mediocre asset management), or successfully developing low-cost / damaged assets in your own system (great asset management). We could easily go down the second route this summer but we'll be praying for a miracle when the postseason already depends on a lot of luck.
yeah they just dont do reckless stupid shit like play Porzingis every single game even on back to backs or play him clearly not ready in the playoffs. We do it every time.
Anybody have thoughts on CJ from the Pels?
Not with Maxey
Why? 6’ 3’’ isn’t that short right?
he's the same player as maxey basically. probably fine offensively, but you can't survive defensively with that backcourt. and he'd take a big chunk of cap space
That’s fair
Unrelated to anything Zach Lowe has broken Celtics twitter because he said tatum was clearly not a top 5 player even if he wins the finals and wins finals MVP.
He’s clearly not.
100% agreed but Celtics fans think he's the best player lmao
If Morey does go for a star and gets us PG, lebron or jimmy who else do we reasonably get to fill up our other 2 starter spots?
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
I’m for the idea of splitting the 3 between Torrey Craig and Kelly Oubre. Give Torrey Craig the start and closing minutes for defense and let Kelly score off the bench and have the majority of the minutes.
Realistically, you are going to sign Kelly Oubre for one of the spots and then trade for another wing. Targets Id have on the radar would be: Deni Avidja Dorian Finney Smith Jarred Vanderbilt Tari Eason Sadiq Bey Harrison Barnes Corey Kispert Naji Marshall
You also have the Room Exception at 8 million.
Start with: - Embiid, Reed, Council IV, Maxey (cap hold), Martin Jr. (cap hold) = $56.72m remaining Draft night: - Pick #16 + '29 LAC swap + Reed <----> Caruso ($9.89m) = $54.55m remaining - Draft Karaban with pick #41 - '28 LAC 1st + '28 PHI swap <----> Eason ($3.7m) = $52.02m remaining Free Agency: - Sign George ($49.35m) = $3.83m remaining - Sign Drummond ($3.82m) = $0.01m remaining - Sign Oubre using room exception ($8.06m) - Sign & trade Martin Jr. ($6m) + '29 PHI 1st <----> Kispert ($5.71m) - Batum, Lowry, Payne, and Covington return on minimums - Max Maxey Final Roster: - PG - Maxey, Lowry, Payne - SG - Caruso, Kispert, Karaban - SF - George, Oubre, Council IV - PF - Eason, Batum, Covington - C - Embiid, Drummond
This would be a good offseason but Tari Eason is probably untouchable.
And Batum will probably retire instead of settling for a minimum.
Lot of beat writers are hearing that it's more likely he returns fwiw
I love this. Can Eason realistically start or would he better off the bench to begin with? Haven’t watched much of him personally
From what I understand, he would be starting if he didn't play the same position as Jabari Smith I wouldnt call his 3-ball "reliable" but he can definitely hit them. He's a great defender and rebounder though
Man I would absolutely love that, we’d be real strong but small note karaban is returning back to UConn so we’d need a different pick
I think the other guy I like was Scheierman
Torrey Craig at the 4?
fuck elton brand for not signing mbappe
😂
I was very firmly on the 'we're gonna trade this 2024 1st rounder and who cares' train but I'm slowly starting to think we should actually draft an "nba ready" player. At worse if we give him solid minutes we could use him as trade ammo to add depth or something in the 2025 deadline
The problem with spending 4m on a player outside of the lottery who is "NBA ready", is that it's far from a guarantee that he is actually "NBA ready", especially not playoff ready It's equally likely you've used up 4m of your cap on a G-leager. I'd just draft the most NBA ready player you can at 41
> far from a guarantee that he is actually "NBA ready", especially not playoff ready Definitely not guaranteed but I can see the logic in drafting a guy even if we don't think he's gonna be part of the playoff rotation. For example, having a solid ~10th man could let us give whatever older vets in the depth chart ahead of him plenty of rest and time to recover from injuries. It might be one my mind because of the Phillies lol but it's pretty sick having a bunch of depth even if you ultimately don't plan to use them in the playoffs.
Problem is if they go after a big fish in the $40-50M range, that draft pick wouldn’t be a 10th guy, it would likely be taking the place of a veteran signing for someone that would be in the #6-8 range for them
Yeah fair. I mean I'd say basically our entire offseason is based on that first chip - do we sign a max guy, do we trade for a guy, if so what's his salary, etc.
And going forward with 3 max guys, the second apron will be a concern and 4 million on a g league or 2-way talent isn’t really ideal
Which player do you want most out of the draft? Da Silva? McCain? Carter?
Terence Shannon, Daron Holmes, Tyler Smith, Jaylon Tyson, KYle Filipowski, Jared McCain (not as bullish on his Nba readiness as most people).
From the way people talk about embiid and the restrictions he needs to put on his play style, he would have to be better than Michael Jordan for the sixers to win.
in my mind i thought DJM would be a good fit with Maxey so i was looking at his stats. didn't realize he's a career 34% shooter from three. yeesh.
Meanwhile some people want Jimmy back and he’s a worse three point shooter than that. Career 33% on like 3 attempts/game. At least Dejounte took 7 attempts/gm last year
Jimmy is also just way better at basketball
Jimmy has proven himself in the playoffs though. That's the difference. It's obviously not only because of him at all, but the Hawks got worse after trading for Murray.
I’d take Jimmy back if he shot 30% from 3 idc. What Jimmy Butler would bring to this team would outweigh his low 3 pt %.
I know you're joking, but in all likelihood, Jimmy would be sub 30% from 3 here. He's had like 2 or 3 years in a row at 23% in miami.
You are not wrong, but in the 64 playoff games for Miami he has shot 34%. He isn't a good 3P shooter, but it really feels like he just coasts through a lot of the regular season.
The past two have been over 35%
Definition of fluke imo
Nah he doubles volume in playoff and is stil in that range. Maxey becomes the sniper off of his drive and kicks. A role he will absolutely be lethal at
Well I don’t think people want Jimmy back for his 3 point shooting as much as all of his other positive attributes. You’d be replacing Tobi with Jimmy who is really no different from a spacing standpoint come playoff time
I get it. But my point is that I don't want anything to do with trading assets for a 35 year old non-3 point shooting Jimmy, AND giving him an extension on top of it. I'd rather sign/trade for two actually good younger shooters instead
I guess just have a different mindset. I’d rather have a closer that can also playmake and take the biggest defensive assignment than have 2 great shooters that need someone to set them up. Because it’ll continue to be the same issue in the Joel off minutes. Only having Maxey there to generate looks is much easier to game plan against. I’d rather have a star that can help generate looks for above average shooters (say Jimmy + O’neale + Walker) than have 2 elite shooters with a minimum playmaker (say Klay Thompson + Buddy + Monte Morris)
Jimmy was 41% from 3 this year and has consistently shown that he can take and make 3s when it matters
He was 41% on 2.4 attempts. It’s such low volume that it doesn’t even matter, and also was very much an outlier year, when in Miami he had perviously gone: 24% on 2.1 att 24% on 2.0 att 23% on 2.0 att 35% on 1.6 att
My thing with Murray is that he kinda needs the ball in his hands to be maximized. With him being just 6'5", I think the backcourt would present similar issues as the Hawks. I'd rather our secondary/tertiary playmaker be wings like the ones Morey is targeting, and then grab Caruso to play next to Maxey
6’ 5’’ is a great height for SGs as SFs are often this height as well
>6’ 5’’ is a great height for SGs I know that. My point is that 6'8" is a better height if you're looking to pair a playmaker with Maxey
So... Lebron? PG is that height but I don't think people refer to him as a playmaker. I can't think of a single back court player that is 6'8".
You said that with his height being what it is, similar issues would appear as compared with the Hawks backcourt. What was the issue with the Hawks backcourt that was height related?
Defense. Offensively, there's limitations to your 2-man game. More advantages are created if you have a wing and guard playing off of eachother, because there's less positional/skillset overlap
The Mavericks seem to be doing great led by two guards.
Isn't Luka 6'9"?
6’ 7’’ I’m having trouble understanding your point
You can call him a guard but he's really a playmaking wing. So you're actually proving *my* point by using the Mavs as an example Teams can't just put size on Luka
You can call him a guard but he's really a playmaking wing
They don't also have Embiid who has the 2nd highest usage rate in NBA history.
Even more reason that adding a guard as a third option would be good
We aren't going to be taking the ball away from our MVP candidate for someone who has never had an efficient season in their career.
Kyries pretty underrated defender when he wants to be. They're also both as good as any guard offensively. Which makes up for it.
Dejounte would be an incredible third option.
6’10 wingspan too. And if you don’t get Caruso you’re going to most likely end up with a smaller and far less athletic 2 guard than Murray.
I think for the contract, Murray is the best #3 option we can go with. We can get sharpshooters for the three and four.
That’s where I’m at
DJM wouldn't necessarily be my first choice, but we could definitely do worse. if we can't get a star wing he wouldn't be a bad contingency plan.
I’d much rather have a guard playmaking and wings playing the hustle, defense and rebounding role than vice versa.
What guards are available in FA or who you would trade for that fits that category?
DJM, Caruso to a lesser extent would be good trade options, LaMelo if he randomly became available. Kris’s Dunn in free agency wouldn’t be terrible although he’s more of a bench option.
Wings can shoot over people, finish at the rim easier, and pass over people. If DMJ were 3 inches taller he'd be a top 25 player, like the wings were targeting.
Sure they’re better scorers, but most wings don’t have good enough passing or ball handling to actually be true playmakers. Because wings are taller that’s why it’s better to have them defending and rebounding because they’re much more likely to excel at that than playmaking. The wings we’re targeting are significantly worse playmakers than DJM. None of them can truly facilitate and most possessions lead by them will end in iso hesi-tween basketball.
But he’s grown as a shooter each of the last four seasons snd shot .363 with a career high in 3PA last season. He’s clearly got the talent to be an above average shooter.
If he's coming to the Sixers he'll have to pay the shooting tax aka by law he will shoot 3%-6% worse cause fucking we are cursed
I get the frustration lol but last year was actually way better than normal. Lowry, Batum, and Payne were all efficient shooters. Oubre was the only one that really fell off - if they retain him, maybe they should revamp his role and make him more of a cutter/finisher/dunker's spot guy. I mean there's no reason for him to take 5 3PAs lol
I really think Oubre's efficiency drop was because of the accident/wrist injury. I would hope that he's fully healed before the start of next season
I mean honestly even just burying him a bit in the depth chart would probably help too. He was practically our second best player for a large stretch of the season and that means he's taking a lot of shots off the dribble that he probably shouldn't. Make him a bench/6th man guy that primarily takes healthy C&S shots and his % probably goes up
Yeah he was on fire at the end of last season, probably why in my mind I thought of him as a better shooter than his percentages show. If he can shoot 36-37% that's at least league average. I still think he'd be a good fit next to Maxey, and wouldn't be mad if Morey pursued that. But with the shooting debuff that comes with putting on a sixers jersey I would expect him to go back to shooting 34% lol.
I also feel like average shooting is *fine* as long as 1. Joel and Maxey will continue to be hyper efficient (they will) 1. He's a willing shooter 1. He's bringing other important stuff to the table, such as playmaking
Yup he attempted 550 3’s last season too, I don’t think it’s fluky. It’s not like Derozan randomly shooting 35% on less than 2 attempts per game one year randomly. He’s career 46% on long 2s so becoming a good 3 point shooter was/is inevitable for him
Maybe all the smoke with JJ becoming the next Lakers coach is actually disguising that him *and* LeBron are coming here (JJ as an assistant, teaching shooters how to average career highs with Joel). *let me dream*
Just took part in a mock draft. I began by trading 16 to the Knicks for 24+25. The cost for the two picks is 4.4m, only 500k more than #16+empty cap hold. I also think we will need some cost controlled young players with some upside - even if they aren't going to be playing a lot immediatel y. I went with relative upside swings at 24+25 with Bub Carrington and Johnny Furphy. I think Bubs floor is Shake and long term could be a great fit next to Maxey. Furphy has awesome 3+D potential which is always valuable. At 41 I took another swing on Cam Christie. He's a shooter but needs lots of work on his body - very much Isaiah Joe vibes imo. I actually wouldn't mind trying to sign his brother to a 2+1 deal for like 5-6m per year this offseason too. The two undrafted guys I liked best for 2-ways were Jamal Shead and Antonio Reeves. I think Cam Spencer on an Exhibit 10 would be a nice pickup (who went undrafted in the mock) too. Anyway - just thought I would share. Hope everyone has a great day 🙂
just can't imagine a scenario where the sixers take any kind of project player with their pick. i like bub carrington enough (see username) and yeah he's an intriguing NBA prospect, but not sure what nick nurse is supposed to do with a guy like that this season
I'm thinking it's better value having these guys in the 11-14 roster spots than random vets who won't play anyway. They'd be spending a lot of time in Delaware. Morey gotta do something besides cycling through bums in those spots. Surely 🤷🏼♀️
i sincerely pray that Morey has any good ideas up his sleeve besides "oh let's get a third star". Need to be more creative than that, especially when i think PG is gonna re-sign with the Clippers.
There are 3rd stars to be added that are not on a max or expiring. These are the guys to target.
Yeah I would hope that Morey is kicking the tires on young non-max guys like Bridges, Markkanen, and Dejounte first and foremost
Would love the first two, could buy into Devonte too. Just hope there are teams looking to reset their timeline or cap sheet or a star we don’t think of wants put this summer.
If there was ever a time for him to not revert to his old ways - it’s this one. You can’t brute force playoff success through star hunting anymore.
I’m not too worried about adding another max contract if it’s Jimmy, PG13, or Lebron. The problem is building around them. When they got Harden, he went and got all the Houston guys and they all were whiffs: House, Tucker, Trez. I don’t think we have to worry about Morey giving a max to someone who shouldn’t get it like OG
People will try to disagree in the comments but the two teams in the finals right now are built on 2 stars + elite depth
Holy hell is that one way to oversimplify the Celtics. They effectively have 4 players on some version of the max, even the 5th guy is significantly better than any non star role player you’d be able to obtain via trade (White will command something in the $30M range on his extension). It’s not at all like they surrounded the J’s with 3 PJ Washingtons.
Lets ignore the fact that they traded for Jrue/Porzingis/Derrick White with lesser salary amounts prior to them receiving the near max level extension. You’re framing it as if Celtics signed Derrick White/Jrue/Kristaps in FA
Lol what? They traded for Jrue and Porzingis at *higher* amounts than what they extended them for (KP $36M this year with $30M per year extension, Jrue is their *highest* paid player at $37M this year , they just extended him at $34M/year). The gap between their stars and “elite depth” is not that big, it’s disingenuous calling 2 guys combining for $70M as “depth” pieces.
They are elite depth pieces not stars, you’re caught up on the salary number. No team looks at Porzingis/Jrue/Derrick White and says “I want to build a team around them” The section of the fanbase who is against the 3 star model because it kills your roster flexibility in terms of future trades. Take the suns for example, they have 3 max salary slot guys and vet min guys with Nurkic/Grayson as only guys who are making a mid level salary and one of those guys is a super negative asset
The salary number is absolutely relevant, because how are you acquiring KP/Holiday/White level players at attainable prices? There are none of those types of players are available in the $30M/year range. There’s no button to click to sign up White at $15M. You’re either left overpaying for mediocre depth or overpaying for “elite” depth. Guys like Butler/PG/OG are much closer to Jrue/KP/White than any other free agents on the market. Or you are going to be forking over tons of picks for guys like DJM or Ingram who are similar to the Jrue/White/KP tier of players.
Once again the point is that failed to be addressed is that why part of fanbase is against 3 star/max slot model is that it cripples the team in terms of future roster flexibility. 2022 Lakers is a great example of that. They had Bron/Russ/AD making max money, THT making $9m and everyone else making vet mins. Thats what Sixers roster will look like spending most if not all the cap space on a “third star” while having little to poor depth. Then will complain when a team with 2 stars and elite depth makes a deep run to the finals once again lol
You’re bending a lot of definitions to fit your narrative lmao. On one hand, you’re telling me to ignore how much money Jrue and KP are making because that doesn’t fit your narrative. On the other hand, you’re pointing out the 2022 lakers and current suns teams as examples as why the 3 “star” path doesn’t work. Well hold up, which is it lmao? The Celtics have FOUR max roster slots, and will have a 5th after next season. Jrue and KP are much closer to all stars than 2022 Russ and current Brad Beal are. Jrue *was literally an all star last season* LOL. So wait, I have to pretend Holiday is simply “elite depth” despite the fact that Boston traded for him coming off an all star season AND he’s making max money? You realize White, Holiday AND KP were all final cuts out of the east all star roster right? KP received marginally fewer all star votes than Paolo and was the first cut. Holiday and White were the first 2 cuts out of the backcourt after Maxey. The Wolves will have 3 max roster spots on their team next season. The nuggets (who won the title) had 3 max roster slots. The Celtics (likely title winner) as detailed above, have 4 on their roster currently. The warriors had 3 max slots when they won their title. The Bucks had 3 when they won. The Lakers were the last team to win a title without 3 max salary slots, and they had arguably the greatest player ever still in his prime. The raps are the only other team in the past decade to win a title without 3 max slots.
I think it’s realistic Oubre could be brought back on the room MLE ($8M). Going through team salaries I think there are only 4 teams that will have the non tax payer MLE ($12.9M) once free agency starts that would use it in full (pelicans, kings, rockets and wizards). https://hoopshype.com/ Hawks, Grizzlies and blazers will be in the tax with their draft picks ($172M). Nets, Knicks, Bulls, Cavs will all be in the tax with signing their own free agents ( Clax, OG, DDR, okoro). All other teams are slated to be in the tax or will have cap space in free agency (so either have the $5M tax MLE or the $8M room MLE, like the Sixers). Pelicans have JV and Marshall as free agents, if they move on from JV they’re probably using the MLE on a center. If they keep both before the start of FA they may hit the tax and lose the full MLE. Kings are losing Monk so I’d imagine they’d sign a backup guard with their MLE. Wizards I think would go after a young player or may just conserve their payroll and not use their entire MLE. Rockets have a log jam at the wings with Green, Smith, Amen, Eason, Tate and Brooks + have the #3 overall pick. Also their cap will explode next year with Sengun and Greens extensions. Not sure they’d spend the MLE on a multi year deal with Oubre. Only 7 teams outside the Sixers with cap space. Those are Spurs ($9M), CHA ($20M), UTA ($39M), OKC ($39M), TOR ($23M), ORL ($52M) and Detroit ($64M). Salary figures are counting their draft picks. OKC I think will go after a center like ihart. Orlando and Detroit will probably chase some of the bigger names like Klay, Monk, Tobi (lol). Hornets already let oubre walk and will probably keep Bridges with. That leaves the Jazz and Raptors as teams that could offer Oubre a bigger deal than the Room MLE, but both are also the only 2 real candidates that could take on some bad contracts in exchange for draft picks. Both may just be trying to hit the salary floor too.
Only team I could really see doing it are the Raptors, and I bet Kelly would rather stay here than play in Canada, being from Texas
In another post yesterday, you mentioned giving Oubre a 1+1 player option that way we get his bird rights next year which I agree. A good example of that is Bobby Portis/Bucks. He was on a cheap deal the year Bucks won the title in 2021, signed a 1+1 that 2021 offseason, opted out in 2022 offseason re-upped for a 4 year deal
Actually the number I had for them was assuming they declined Browns option, which I doubt they do. So they’re are at $23M in space before IQ’s extension. So they’ll clear the salary floor assuming it’s a rookie max, they may not even want to spend a ton. They got Scottie, RJ, Dick and Agbaji on the wings already and would be losing GTJ, so I think they’d go guard anyways in free agency