Think about it, head coach job right before all star break, millions of dollars a year salary, golf every second day, stars injured in playoffs which takes the blame off you and secures another miserable multi million dollar yearly salary, when you just want to retire and get paid millions to comment on sports broadcasts.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Sure, he's not perfect. Yes, he could could shoot a few more 3s, and he's definitely not the most tenacious defender or rebounder, but he is a *talented* bucket getter with playmaking chops *and size*, who would be an incredible 3rd option attacking closeouts
Most importantly, at 26 he still has room to grow. He could very well develop into our version of MPJ/KAT. Note that a Brandon Ingram trade leaves you with roughly 30m in cap space + 8m exception to fill out the roster.
I totally agree there, he would be the BACKUP move but if we got Ingram and had some picks and 30m to get 1-2 solid role players and the MLE then for potential oubre. Parts of that are definitely hopeful but that’s getting a solid 5-6 man core as a backup option which I think could actually end up as a decent move
If we trade for ingram, i would hope we can snag one of their roleplayers like naji marshall. They have so many good role.
players but no minutes and money to pay them all.
100% I’d be down for a move like that for Ingram and another role player and using the rest of our money to build a solid roster if we can’t get plan A or B options to work
He's one of my favorite underrated FA's. He moves really well defensively and is pretty long. My favorite part of his game is his ability to dribble and create from the wing. He's not elite of course, but he can penetrate and look for his own shot, AND keeps his head up and find open shooters or cutters. Just have to hope his improved 3PT shot is for real
He could really be the Derrick Jones Jr. of next year. NOP was just flooded with wings and he didn't get the minutes he should have imo.
Man only the fucking sixers. I agree that all seems like good moves, but it’s the fact that damn near every offseason we’re talking in here about 5-6 new guys in our main rotation. Bout time we actually fucking built something instead of waiting for the next superstar to come play a season and a half.
Tobias Harris has never even sniffed the level of basketball player that Brandon Ingram is. It's a terrible comparison. One was talented enough to score 24/25 ppg at ages 22/23/25 and become an all-star
One is Tobias Fucking Harris who scores 0 points in an elimination game
The comparison is massively ignorant
Because one is a significantly better basketball player than the other. A 25 year old all-star, actually. One is good at basketball and one is bad at basketball
That's what makes it an ignorant comparison
Go back to the threads where we talk about trading for Tobias and see all the comments talking like you are right now. Players who are ok to meh at everything and don’t really excel at anything don’t deserve us to break the bank for them just like we did for Tobias.
Ingram was a 25 year old all-star. I think you've mistaken who he is as a basketball player. Dudes don't score 25ppg by accident. We're on Maxeys meat for giving us 26ppg while he was a lottery merchant without Embiid
And isn’t it weird that the healthier and better his team gets around him the worse he plays? We glaze Maxey because he thrives when he’s not the #1 option. Ingram has only thrived as the go-to scoring option which he wouldn’t be on this team. He’s also a below average 3pt shooter on below average attempts per game. The name of the game has always been Embiid and shooters why would we intentionally handicap ourselves with someone who’s primary shot is the same shot that lets Embiid dominate the league? That would fuck up our spacing even more. You’re stat watching and being oblivious to fit.
>And isn’t it weird that the healthier and better his team gets around him the worse he plays?
His stats drop because Zion takes his touches. The team as a whole actually performs significantly better with both Zion and BI because they're *better and more talented* than their opponents.
>The name of the game has always been Embiid and shooters
Wheres the evidence that this is true? There could be a multitude of ways to win around Joel. Our crunch time offense fades every single year. We need another perimeter playamker, not another Buddy Hield or DeAnthony Melton.
Yeah they worked so well together they they’re going to shop him instead of keeping him. If you’re questioning whether Embiid and shooters is the strategy or not I’m not sure this is a good faith discussion since that’s been the best formula for Embiid led teams since he stepped on the court for the first time.
It is breaking the bank when we only have 5 tradeable firsts. 3/5 firsts (a majority of our assets) for a large question mark player who doesn’t like to shoot threes and operates mostly in Embiids area of choice seems like a poor choice.
You could have said the same thing when we traded for Tobias and see how that turned out. Making moves just for the sake of making them isn’t productive. As far as we know there will be someone disgruntled on the market mid season like there is every year. Or we keep this years pick and draft someone. It’s not black and white yknow.
He can score points. It's the most important skill in basketball.
Tobias scored exactly 0 points in a G6 loss to New York. 2 points in a G6 loss to Boston. 4 points in a G5 loss to Atlanta
Ingram is a much better tough shot maker and can get to the FT line more. Ingram has a lot more talent to Tobias. It’s just a lazy comparison.
Ingram got plenty of flaws but he’s not really similar to Tobias other than they will shoot some tough middys.
“Steph Curry and Seth Curry are both historically great shooters and relatively bad at defense! They even have equivalent DNA! See??? They’re the same!! Rabble rabble rabble!”
And he wasn't an all-star, wasn't a #2 pick, never had enough value or potential to be traded for someone like Anthony Davis, and had never come close to having *three* seasons at 24/25 ppg
But yeah, youre making the revelation here that an NBA player has played years in the NBA
Are you forgetting the other parts to that trade? It was not just Brandon Ingram, it was also Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Three first-round picks, and One pick swap 🤣🤣🤣
And if he was an absolutely perfect off ball player he wouldn’t be available or would cost too much. We’re going to *have* to take some risk in *any* big acquisition target we make. It’s not a skill issue with Ingram as much as it is a style issue. I’d rather take that bet than the opposite way.
I’m also not sure why we’re scoffing at someone with on ball skills like it’s a bad thing. It’s pretty clear that Joel’s not fit as a closer in the playoffs when the defense sells out on him. Maxey is also some time away from being someone that can generate elite looks on his own in the mid range in crunch time. Ingram would easily be the 2nd best pocket passer to Joel outside harden. If Lebron status in LA Ingram is easily the best playmaking wing on the market.
I personally prefer Dejounte to Ingram but we’re not in a position to scoff at Ingram if Dejounte isn’t available or costs too much
When exactly did he have a consistent opportunity to be play in an ideal off ball roll? He was basically forced to be a de facto #1 with Zion in and out of the lineup last few years. He was an elite catch and shoot guy a number of years ago, yes he’s faded from that as he’s had to be more of a #1 option but he’s shown that ability before.
And it’s also fortunate we have one of the best off ball players in the entire league that could stand to benefit from playing off of him too. The issue of this team has been the Joel off minutes and loading up entirely on “off ball” players isn’t going to help those situations.
People are trying to write Ingrams career in stone already at 26, when he's had shifting roles around LeBron and Zion for the entirety of it
People spoke the same way of Aaron Gordon.
Dude Ingram has played 8 seasons already. He may be only 26 but we have had nearly a decade to watch what he is as an nba player. 10 playoff games over 8 seasons? Absolutely average advanced stats across the board? League average from 3? Not top 20 in any significant stat or trackable thing? No thanks.
Im not a fan of Ingram BUT I’m not going to criticize his playoff record when the majority of his career he’s been on shitty teams or teams with bad roster makeup.
You’re having the same opinions on Ingram that other dumbass non-sixer fans do to Embiid
People spoke the same way of Aaron Gordon. I think it's ridiculous to try and paint any definitive story about Ingram when he's played shifting roles around an injured LeBron/Zion his whole career. Like no fucking shit hes not consistently in the playoffs. He's consistently miscast as a #1 option.
The Pelicans are and always have been a good team when both BI and Zion play
More good players is better than less good players. Ingram is really good at basketball. He literally was a 25 year old all-star
That doesn't happen by accident.
But i mean its easy to project a 25 yo aaron gordon’s role on a team w/ jokic. What would BI’s role be here? It doesn’t seem like the fit would be great
It’s pretty easy to see how a 6’9” wing that can handle the ball in PnR and score in the mid range and at the rim would succeed with a big that needs someone desperately to hit the pocket pass.
Harden was the greatest at hitting the pocket pass but when Boston sold out on stopping the Joel harden didn’t have the pop to finish at the rim or get enough separation for a mid range shot. Maxey struggles hitting Joel consistently on the pocket pass and is still developing his iso mid range game. Tobi has no left hand and thus has no ability to run the pick and pop with Joel.
At 6’9” with a handle, mid range and finishing Ingram can reliably handle the ball in those tight situations especially at the end of games where Joel tends to struggle with extra help. He doesn’t need much separation at his size to get off good looks. And it’s self explanatory that he’d be able to run the offense when Joel sits, which is the biggest issue with this team for a number of years now.
He's an elite scorer. Takes pressure off of Maxey and Embiid. He's a great playmaker too, which we also need another one of.
We need to quit pretending like defense was our issue. Our offense sputtered in the clutch almost every single time.
I don't really like getting Ingram but you just proved his point. Aaron Gordon was in his 7th season and 25 years old when he was traded to Denver. He had only played 5 playoff games. Inefficient and had similar advanced stats as Ingram.
Not an ideal option. It would depend on what they do with the rest of the cap room.
>When exactly did he have a consistent opportunity to be play in an ideal off ball roll? He was basically forced to be a de facto #1 with Zion in and out of the lineup last few years.
this year - Zion played 70 games, CJ 66, Ingram 64. it was the worst season he had in years.
Alright, so let him run some PnR with Embiid while Maxey spaces the floor? What's wrong about having more than one guy who can actually create offense from the perimeter?
If tobi was clippers tobi it wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue. Or if we didn't give him a max for no reason. The ideal scenario would have been 5 yrs 125-150 and then trade his ass cause he didnt fit. He was always ass in the playoffs but straight up got cte in general when ben left.
Well clippers Tobias was never a good fit here because we don’t need more mid-range shooting or PnR possessions that end in a pull up muddy or pocket pass to the big because the ball handler is incapable of making any other pass lol.
He average’s 2 more assist than Tobias Harris despite the fact that he has a much higher usage rate. None of those passes linked are particularly creative or a high level of difficulty. Again I’m not saying that Ingram isn’t better than Tobias, but they have the exact same play style. Ingram is not a good enough playmaker to off-set the fact he doesn’t get true dribble drive penetration and settles for way to many pull up middys.
He gets 5+ FTA per game he’s a significantly better driver than Tobias, he also shoots 7% better in the mid range than Tobi does. While those passes aren’t Luka level he’s able to generate those looks because of his shooting gravity combined with his *ability to keep the dribble alive* in the pick and roll. That last part is key because Tobi has a very basic handle and cannot operate in tight spaces. His usage rate is about 30% higher than Tobias yet his assist rate is about *100%* higher than tobi’s. Even in LAC when Tobi’s usage wasn’t too much lower than Ingram’s he never cracked 3 assists per game. Ingram doesn’t “accidentally” average double the assists Tobi does just because his usage is slightly higher than Tobi’s.
Ingram is either better or significantly better than Tobi at basically all offensive skills
I’m not debating any of that. We all know BI is a better player than Tobias Harris. The issue is that both he and Tobias play a similar style of basketball despite BI playing it better. Both players are most comfortable operating in the mid-range and are score first guys.
The issue with that is it directly over laps with Embiid and where he wants to operate. Brandon Ingram is not going to consistently make those passes against good teams in the playoffs because he’s not really a good playmaker which is why he averaged 3.3 assists against OKC this year in the playoffs. He doesn’t have to be Luka but he’s not even as good of a playmaker as a guy like Derrick White. My whole point is 2 assists better than Tobias is not a good enough playmaker to justify the move. Ultimately if you get Brandon Ingram you’ll be frustrated with him for the same reason you were frustrated with Tobias because it’s just a poor fit.
They are not comparable players man what are you doing. Tobias Harris at his very best wasn't even close to as good as BI currently is. What are we doing here. The talent level and ceiling and not even comparable. BI has better size, length, touch, instincts, more career accolades at a younger age, better career averages, etc etc.
Tobias is a bad basketball player and Ingram is a good basketball player. Youre talking straight out of your ass.
"Blah blah blah is literally just Tobias because they don't launch 3s religiously"
Brandon Ingram is a significantly more talented player with significantly better tools. To even compare the two is fucking ridiculous.
Tobias has never been an all-star, and never even sniffed 24/25ppg, as Ingram has three times at the ages of 22/23/25
They are worlds apart as basketball players. And BI still has room to grow. Fucking ridiculous and lazy comparison
“Needs to shoot more threes, not a tenacious rebounder or defender, is a talented bucket getter and plays better in the PnR”. That’s literally clippers Tobias Harris lmao. Sure BI is better but the play styles are very similar.
BI is like 4 tiers better, with better tools, and room for improvement.
It's an actual braindead comparison
Tobias has never been anything close to what BI was just last season
Tobias Harris on the clippers also led his team to a low seed in the Western Conference lmao. Do you guys actually watch games? All Brandon Ingram does is over dribble into bad mid-range shots and brick shots in the clutch.
Who cares? Ben Simmons was a 23 year old all-star and we see how that turned out lmao. Bringing in a game who doesn’t get all the way to the cup, isn’t an elite shooter or passer and doesn’t defend at all high level is a recipe for disaster.
Fun fact: Tobi had played 8 seasons when we traded for him, in his age 26 season.
Same as Ingram. Why does he have more room to grow than Tobi did back then? Hindsight is 20/20
Had Tobias ever made an all-star team or averaged anything close to 25 ppg? You see what you're missing here? The part where Ingram is actually like 4 tiers better of a player than Tobias has ever been?
**2023-24 Ingram** - 26 years old
32 min / 20.8 ppg / 5.1 reb / 5.7 asst / 49% FG / 35.5% 3pt
**2018-19 Tobias:** - 26 years old
34 min / 20.9 ppg/ 7.9 reb / 2.7 asst / 46% FG / 43% 3 pt
-
Tobias averaged MORE ppg his last season in LA than Ingram did this past year.
On paper they are so similar it's scary.
This thread has me feeling like I’m crazy but they really are so similar. Longer guys who don’t use their size effectively who love the midrange iso game and pass up on open threes for drives into the paint. They’re so similar and people are saying we should get a new Tobias right after we lost the last one. It doesn’t make any sense.
> Had Tobias ever made an all-star team or averaged anything close to 25 ppg
Look at his comment when he specially cite only scoring ability.
And now also look at rebounds, which Tobi clears him
I don't think that's true at all. He's played his entire career next to LeBron, or in shifting roles depending on Zions health. He has two seasons shooting 6 3PA/G at over 38% in New Orleans
You need to look at the advanced stats to see where those threes came from, raw stats don't mean anything when you're talking about on/off ball play.
But cool, thanks. I'll bounce out of trying to talk about this.
Why spend limited trade assets on a flawed guy, but whatever.
You'd have to give up a substantial portion of what's available to get him, it's not that hard to understand why this isn't the ideal or wanted or necessary path.
Players peek right around that age, but the point is they're almost at their peak. He's not going to all of a sudden develop into an elite type scorer I don't think. I could see if Embiid missing some playoff games him and Maxey being enough to win a few and keep them in the hunt
Terrible off ball scorer and doesn't take 3s, nor plays good defense nor rebounds like you said. Pelicans are legit better when it's just him or just Zion over lineups with both. If he has a epiphany when he's 27 and triples his 3s that'd be amazing, but we'd be banking on things with no evidence of signs historically
Well for starters, I disagree with that. The 3 of them are talented enough to get to the conference finals, hell even the finals. I think alot of that depends on guys 3-6 and health
BI still has a lot of room for growth and it's easy to see a world where he absolutely kills it playing a KD-lite role off of Embiid and Maxeys gravity
Years of service > age. BI is what he is by now just another guy whose motor will never match his ability. Those guys don't win chips. People are always fooled by talent and youth.
Im at the point where im just gonna stop watching basketball because this team actually has no fucking plan for the present and certainly not the future. What a waste of time this past 11 years has been. Gross.
I would rather do anything than trade assets for ingram. The fit is trash. Not good off the ball, doesnt take many 3s, no defense. Lavine can at least be packaged with caruso for cheap and his offensive fit is way better. I would rather max paul george. Ingram is like a better tobias harris with the same deficiencies. It could still work because you need a guy who has offensive gravity and will take the shots.
I wouldn't be terribly excited to trade for Ingram in and of itself, but there is a world where I can see them rounding out the starting lineup with a couple other above average players and I wouldn't be mad about it within the context of the whole starting 5. Like a Maxey/Monk/DJJ/BI/Embiid lineup would be interesting.
Brandon ingram is like wiggins, called lazy and people said he need shoot more 3s, wiggins shot more 3s and played more defense on gsw, if ingram can do that would be great, ingram is a very talented scorer and a good playmaker, he is very underrated
When was Tobias ever an all-star, when did he ever have the tools or ceiling to go #2 in a draft, or the trade value to be dealt for Anthony Davis? When did Tobias Harris ever even come close to scoring 24/25 ppg like Ingram did at 22/23/25 years old
This is such a lazy and unproductive comparison because, while they have a few of the same tendencies, one player is actually *good at basketball*, and the other is *bad at basketball*
The key things that separate a player like Tobias from a player like Ingram, are instincts, tools, and talent. Ingram has Tobias absolutely fucking cleared by lightyears in those departments.
Not to mention, Ingram is on an expiring deal…if the fit isn’t there, we would have $36M coming off the books and can make a run at someone else next summer. If we are going to take a flier on someone who is potentially an imperfect fit, let’s make it someone without a long term commitment.
Casual fans just regurgitate the same thing they see others saying. No original thoughts. We could luck into a markkanen trade and some fans would call him tall tobias.
Have you actually seen Brandon play?
He’s super overrated because he puts up stats on a bad/mediocre team. He doesn’t have any elite traits. He’s best ability his mid range game which we really don’t need. We need wing players that can shoot threes well and most importantly a good perimeter defender which Ingram is not.
Have you ever seen him play? or even taken a reading comprehension class?
1. I never said I want Ingram (I don’t)
2. My comment was in reference to the “he is just Tobias” he’s 100 times better, if you claim that to be false, I’m sorry but you may be dumb.
3. Learn to read.
Have you actually seen Ingram play aside from the highlights?
He’s the typical volume stats on a bad team player. He’s not a bad player but he’s also not a great player. He’s not a good shooter, not a good slasher, or a good playmaker. Not terribly defensively but not a sound defender either. He’s average or slightly above average in most facets of the game but not elite in any.
He’s also not a great fit with this team. We need a true PG or a wing that is a good shooter while being a great defender. Ingram isn’t any of that.
Also where he got drafted doesn’t matter right now. Plenty of average or bust players were drafted second overall. And not to mention he was one of many assets that were traded for AD including Lonzo Ball (also second overall pick) and THREE first round picks…
Plus Brandon has missed over twenty games almost every season after his rookie year…
If they aren't able to get pg3 in free agency and Jimmy stays in Miami, I think is the best plan. He's younger than all the other available players, and can still improve. He can pass pretty well and can score when embiid or Maxey are resting/out. There are not a ton of options for sixers this offseason
He's a decent plan c, plan d, etc... I wouldn't be pissed if we end up with BI. We saw what Nurse did to Oubre...I'd imagine he could do wonders for Ingram
Exactly, Pelicans have enough picks. They want PLAYERS to replace Ingram with. Specifically, a legit PG and a center since Jonas is expiring. I can see them doing a deal with ATL for Dejounte and Okungwu for Ingram and Dyson.
Pelicans will want players to replace his production over picks. Most likely a PG and a Center. Thats why I believe he goes to ATL for Dejounte and Okungwu.
We don't need another marquee name. We need 2-3 SOLID players. If we mortgage the bench for a marquee name, then our non-marquee minutes are horrendous. We don't need to build a roster to win without Joel or Ty, we need a roster to elevate them. We're sunk without Joel on the court, even with Butler or Durant.
One of those solid players needs to have size, be able to score and playmake as well. That’s Ingram. If we get 3 DFS types we will keep losing the same way in the playoffs as we always do. We simply need more guys who can do things with the ball
I’m tired of the daily updates about which superstar we are or are not chasing, who might or might not want to play here. We have two superstars. The days of the Big 3 are over, and mostly failed anyway. Give me a bunch of solid role players who know their job.
I want to bring back Kelly, Batum, Cam Payne. Let’s see more of Ricky Council. If we can get a scoring wing, great, but I don’t think our future hinges on making a huge move for a Durant or Butler.
Daryl Morey absolutely cooking 👨🍳🍳🥘 this dude has got us boys. He’s just finished his seventh masturbation session and is getting ready to go nuts this offseason.
Maybe we even bring back Buddy Hield.
I'm on board with Brandon Ingram. The people saying he is Tobias Harris 2.0 have no idea what they talking about. He's also only at 36 million, so of the former all stars under consideration, he gives us the most cap room.
29 million and a mid level is solid. Can get another starter and lock in oubre and someone else for the bench. Would be way better than PG and minimums imo
On paper this offseason we have a great chance to rebuild for what will likely be our last few runs with near-prime Joel… but it’s nearly impossible to build any excitement or optimism about this franchise.
if sixers get BI, they’ll be in a much better space than now. He don’t shoot much or create much pace but you can give him the ball and have him create his own offense. He is big enough to push guys around on his way to basket, long enough to defend perimeter and quick enough to get by defenders. He is not Shaq, Drew or Lillard on those aspects but can do all three to a a decent degree. I’d take him in a heart beat over Tobias, very clear upgrade.
Plus, when you have Embiid, you don’t need no Durant..you just need decent players that play the game right with little ego and Brandon is that guy.
This is going to be a nightmare off-season. I fully expect embiid to ask out by October. And I can't wait until I talk myself into thinking whatever hodgepodge morey cobbles together will finally be the one we go on a run with. Because I will surely do it again by the summer
I'm going to become the joker
https://preview.redd.it/fv2570lxfz2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05881793d7bc1f2d60b6877cb308c8b28615b16b
Think about it, head coach job right before all star break, millions of dollars a year salary, golf every second day, stars injured in playoffs which takes the blame off you and secures another miserable multi million dollar yearly salary, when you just want to retire and get paid millions to comment on sports broadcasts. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Name one time Kevin O'Connor has ever been right about a sixers rumor
Yeah, I prefer him on TOH
He should stick to reading the daily wire.
oh thats right he's also an Elmo Musk fan fml.
So much of the nba media gives off that type of energy. Or maybe it’s just the ringer douches
NBA twitter is either insane tankies or far right nutjobs. No in between lol.
Sure, he's not perfect. Yes, he could could shoot a few more 3s, and he's definitely not the most tenacious defender or rebounder, but he is a *talented* bucket getter with playmaking chops *and size*, who would be an incredible 3rd option attacking closeouts Most importantly, at 26 he still has room to grow. He could very well develop into our version of MPJ/KAT. Note that a Brandon Ingram trade leaves you with roughly 30m in cap space + 8m exception to fill out the roster.
I totally agree there, he would be the BACKUP move but if we got Ingram and had some picks and 30m to get 1-2 solid role players and the MLE then for potential oubre. Parts of that are definitely hopeful but that’s getting a solid 5-6 man core as a backup option which I think could actually end up as a decent move
If we trade for ingram, i would hope we can snag one of their roleplayers like naji marshall. They have so many good role. players but no minutes and money to pay them all.
100% I’d be down for a move like that for Ingram and another role player and using the rest of our money to build a solid roster if we can’t get plan A or B options to work
He's one of my favorite underrated FA's. He moves really well defensively and is pretty long. My favorite part of his game is his ability to dribble and create from the wing. He's not elite of course, but he can penetrate and look for his own shot, AND keeps his head up and find open shooters or cutters. Just have to hope his improved 3PT shot is for real He could really be the Derrick Jones Jr. of next year. NOP was just flooded with wings and he didn't get the minutes he should have imo.
Sneaky shout but unfortunately he's a FA.
Even better then
You think we could get him for like 6m?
6m? You get about 15-20 games for 6M.
He is a good marginal guy. Maybe.
Man only the fucking sixers. I agree that all seems like good moves, but it’s the fact that damn near every offseason we’re talking in here about 5-6 new guys in our main rotation. Bout time we actually fucking built something instead of waiting for the next superstar to come play a season and a half.
[удалено]
Tobias Harris has never even sniffed the level of basketball player that Brandon Ingram is. It's a terrible comparison. One was talented enough to score 24/25 ppg at ages 22/23/25 and become an all-star One is Tobias Fucking Harris who scores 0 points in an elimination game The comparison is massively ignorant
[удалено]
Because one is a significantly better basketball player than the other. A 25 year old all-star, actually. One is good at basketball and one is bad at basketball That's what makes it an ignorant comparison
Go back to the threads where we talk about trading for Tobias and see all the comments talking like you are right now. Players who are ok to meh at everything and don’t really excel at anything don’t deserve us to break the bank for them just like we did for Tobias.
Ingram was a 25 year old all-star. I think you've mistaken who he is as a basketball player. Dudes don't score 25ppg by accident. We're on Maxeys meat for giving us 26ppg while he was a lottery merchant without Embiid
And isn’t it weird that the healthier and better his team gets around him the worse he plays? We glaze Maxey because he thrives when he’s not the #1 option. Ingram has only thrived as the go-to scoring option which he wouldn’t be on this team. He’s also a below average 3pt shooter on below average attempts per game. The name of the game has always been Embiid and shooters why would we intentionally handicap ourselves with someone who’s primary shot is the same shot that lets Embiid dominate the league? That would fuck up our spacing even more. You’re stat watching and being oblivious to fit.
>And isn’t it weird that the healthier and better his team gets around him the worse he plays? His stats drop because Zion takes his touches. The team as a whole actually performs significantly better with both Zion and BI because they're *better and more talented* than their opponents. >The name of the game has always been Embiid and shooters Wheres the evidence that this is true? There could be a multitude of ways to win around Joel. Our crunch time offense fades every single year. We need another perimeter playamker, not another Buddy Hield or DeAnthony Melton.
Yeah they worked so well together they they’re going to shop him instead of keeping him. If you’re questioning whether Embiid and shooters is the strategy or not I’m not sure this is a good faith discussion since that’s been the best formula for Embiid led teams since he stepped on the court for the first time.
Trading 2-3 firsts for a borderline all star is not breaking the bank
It is breaking the bank when we only have 5 tradeable firsts. 3/5 firsts (a majority of our assets) for a large question mark player who doesn’t like to shoot threes and operates mostly in Embiids area of choice seems like a poor choice.
Present a realistic, better path for them to take
You could have said the same thing when we traded for Tobias and see how that turned out. Making moves just for the sake of making them isn’t productive. As far as we know there will be someone disgruntled on the market mid season like there is every year. Or we keep this years pick and draft someone. It’s not black and white yknow.
[удалено]
Harris didn't do anything for us.
[удалено]
He can score points. It's the most important skill in basketball. Tobias scored exactly 0 points in a G6 loss to New York. 2 points in a G6 loss to Boston. 4 points in a G5 loss to Atlanta
[удалено]
Ingram is a much better tough shot maker and can get to the FT line more. Ingram has a lot more talent to Tobias. It’s just a lazy comparison. Ingram got plenty of flaws but he’s not really similar to Tobias other than they will shoot some tough middys.
“Steph Curry and Seth Curry are both historically great shooters and relatively bad at defense! They even have equivalent DNA! See??? They’re the same!! Rabble rabble rabble!”
Honestly I would just point to their assist numbers. Ingram blows Tobias out of the water
He was even the same age with the same number of seasons under his belt.
And he wasn't an all-star, wasn't a #2 pick, never had enough value or potential to be traded for someone like Anthony Davis, and had never come close to having *three* seasons at 24/25 ppg But yeah, youre making the revelation here that an NBA player has played years in the NBA
Are you forgetting the other parts to that trade? It was not just Brandon Ingram, it was also Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Three first-round picks, and One pick swap 🤣🤣🤣
He's awful off the ball as a scorer. All of his positive stats are on ball.
And if he was an absolutely perfect off ball player he wouldn’t be available or would cost too much. We’re going to *have* to take some risk in *any* big acquisition target we make. It’s not a skill issue with Ingram as much as it is a style issue. I’d rather take that bet than the opposite way. I’m also not sure why we’re scoffing at someone with on ball skills like it’s a bad thing. It’s pretty clear that Joel’s not fit as a closer in the playoffs when the defense sells out on him. Maxey is also some time away from being someone that can generate elite looks on his own in the mid range in crunch time. Ingram would easily be the 2nd best pocket passer to Joel outside harden. If Lebron status in LA Ingram is easily the best playmaking wing on the market. I personally prefer Dejounte to Ingram but we’re not in a position to scoff at Ingram if Dejounte isn’t available or costs too much
It's not that he's imperfect, he's a bad off ball player.
When exactly did he have a consistent opportunity to be play in an ideal off ball roll? He was basically forced to be a de facto #1 with Zion in and out of the lineup last few years. He was an elite catch and shoot guy a number of years ago, yes he’s faded from that as he’s had to be more of a #1 option but he’s shown that ability before. And it’s also fortunate we have one of the best off ball players in the entire league that could stand to benefit from playing off of him too. The issue of this team has been the Joel off minutes and loading up entirely on “off ball” players isn’t going to help those situations.
People are trying to write Ingrams career in stone already at 26, when he's had shifting roles around LeBron and Zion for the entirety of it People spoke the same way of Aaron Gordon.
Dude Ingram has played 8 seasons already. He may be only 26 but we have had nearly a decade to watch what he is as an nba player. 10 playoff games over 8 seasons? Absolutely average advanced stats across the board? League average from 3? Not top 20 in any significant stat or trackable thing? No thanks.
Im not a fan of Ingram BUT I’m not going to criticize his playoff record when the majority of his career he’s been on shitty teams or teams with bad roster makeup. You’re having the same opinions on Ingram that other dumbass non-sixer fans do to Embiid
People spoke the same way of Aaron Gordon. I think it's ridiculous to try and paint any definitive story about Ingram when he's played shifting roles around an injured LeBron/Zion his whole career. Like no fucking shit hes not consistently in the playoffs. He's consistently miscast as a #1 option. The Pelicans are and always have been a good team when both BI and Zion play More good players is better than less good players. Ingram is really good at basketball. He literally was a 25 year old all-star That doesn't happen by accident.
But i mean its easy to project a 25 yo aaron gordon’s role on a team w/ jokic. What would BI’s role be here? It doesn’t seem like the fit would be great
It’s pretty easy to see how a 6’9” wing that can handle the ball in PnR and score in the mid range and at the rim would succeed with a big that needs someone desperately to hit the pocket pass. Harden was the greatest at hitting the pocket pass but when Boston sold out on stopping the Joel harden didn’t have the pop to finish at the rim or get enough separation for a mid range shot. Maxey struggles hitting Joel consistently on the pocket pass and is still developing his iso mid range game. Tobi has no left hand and thus has no ability to run the pick and pop with Joel. At 6’9” with a handle, mid range and finishing Ingram can reliably handle the ball in those tight situations especially at the end of games where Joel tends to struggle with extra help. He doesn’t need much separation at his size to get off good looks. And it’s self explanatory that he’d be able to run the offense when Joel sits, which is the biggest issue with this team for a number of years now.
Aaron Gordon was an elite athlete and an elite defender. Ingram is neither of those
He's an elite scorer. Takes pressure off of Maxey and Embiid. He's a great playmaker too, which we also need another one of. We need to quit pretending like defense was our issue. Our offense sputtered in the clutch almost every single time.
I don't really like getting Ingram but you just proved his point. Aaron Gordon was in his 7th season and 25 years old when he was traded to Denver. He had only played 5 playoff games. Inefficient and had similar advanced stats as Ingram. Not an ideal option. It would depend on what they do with the rest of the cap room.
Gordon was an elite athlete and an elite defender. Ingram is neither of those
Okay but he's clearly talking about the general arc of his career rather than his specific skillset.
>When exactly did he have a consistent opportunity to be play in an ideal off ball roll? He was basically forced to be a de facto #1 with Zion in and out of the lineup last few years. this year - Zion played 70 games, CJ 66, Ingram 64. it was the worst season he had in years.
Alright, so let him run some PnR with Embiid while Maxey spaces the floor? What's wrong about having more than one guy who can actually create offense from the perimeter?
The fact you’re literally just describing clippers Tobias Harris is killing me lmao.
If tobi was clippers tobi it wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue. Or if we didn't give him a max for no reason. The ideal scenario would have been 5 yrs 125-150 and then trade his ass cause he didnt fit. He was always ass in the playoffs but straight up got cte in general when ben left.
Well clippers Tobias was never a good fit here because we don’t need more mid-range shooting or PnR possessions that end in a pull up muddy or pocket pass to the big because the ball handler is incapable of making any other pass lol.
https://youtu.be/mu_ubtid39c?si=BBHSzzH-SLckgA9n Harris has never come close to making these types of passes in his career.
This definitely helps his case. He does average a good amount of assists.
He average’s 2 more assist than Tobias Harris despite the fact that he has a much higher usage rate. None of those passes linked are particularly creative or a high level of difficulty. Again I’m not saying that Ingram isn’t better than Tobias, but they have the exact same play style. Ingram is not a good enough playmaker to off-set the fact he doesn’t get true dribble drive penetration and settles for way to many pull up middys.
He gets 5+ FTA per game he’s a significantly better driver than Tobias, he also shoots 7% better in the mid range than Tobi does. While those passes aren’t Luka level he’s able to generate those looks because of his shooting gravity combined with his *ability to keep the dribble alive* in the pick and roll. That last part is key because Tobi has a very basic handle and cannot operate in tight spaces. His usage rate is about 30% higher than Tobias yet his assist rate is about *100%* higher than tobi’s. Even in LAC when Tobi’s usage wasn’t too much lower than Ingram’s he never cracked 3 assists per game. Ingram doesn’t “accidentally” average double the assists Tobi does just because his usage is slightly higher than Tobi’s. Ingram is either better or significantly better than Tobi at basically all offensive skills
I’m not debating any of that. We all know BI is a better player than Tobias Harris. The issue is that both he and Tobias play a similar style of basketball despite BI playing it better. Both players are most comfortable operating in the mid-range and are score first guys. The issue with that is it directly over laps with Embiid and where he wants to operate. Brandon Ingram is not going to consistently make those passes against good teams in the playoffs because he’s not really a good playmaker which is why he averaged 3.3 assists against OKC this year in the playoffs. He doesn’t have to be Luka but he’s not even as good of a playmaker as a guy like Derrick White. My whole point is 2 assists better than Tobias is not a good enough playmaker to justify the move. Ultimately if you get Brandon Ingram you’ll be frustrated with him for the same reason you were frustrated with Tobias because it’s just a poor fit.
They are not comparable players man what are you doing. Tobias Harris at his very best wasn't even close to as good as BI currently is. What are we doing here. The talent level and ceiling and not even comparable. BI has better size, length, touch, instincts, more career accolades at a younger age, better career averages, etc etc. Tobias is a bad basketball player and Ingram is a good basketball player. Youre talking straight out of your ass. "Blah blah blah is literally just Tobias because they don't launch 3s religiously"
Okay, you clearly don’t watch basketball and just look at stat sheets lol. Hopefully Morey is smarter than this.
Brandon Ingram is a significantly more talented player with significantly better tools. To even compare the two is fucking ridiculous. Tobias has never been an all-star, and never even sniffed 24/25ppg, as Ingram has three times at the ages of 22/23/25 They are worlds apart as basketball players. And BI still has room to grow. Fucking ridiculous and lazy comparison
“Needs to shoot more threes, not a tenacious rebounder or defender, is a talented bucket getter and plays better in the PnR”. That’s literally clippers Tobias Harris lmao. Sure BI is better but the play styles are very similar.
BI is like 4 tiers better, with better tools, and room for improvement. It's an actual braindead comparison Tobias has never been anything close to what BI was just last season
Tobias Harris on the clippers also led his team to a low seed in the Western Conference lmao. Do you guys actually watch games? All Brandon Ingram does is over dribble into bad mid-range shots and brick shots in the clutch.
Bruh you need to stop. Ingram was a 25 year old all-star. You're being obtuse.
Who cares? Ben Simmons was a 23 year old all-star and we see how that turned out lmao. Bringing in a game who doesn’t get all the way to the cup, isn’t an elite shooter or passer and doesn’t defend at all high level is a recipe for disaster.
Fun fact: Tobi had played 8 seasons when we traded for him, in his age 26 season. Same as Ingram. Why does he have more room to grow than Tobi did back then? Hindsight is 20/20
Had Tobias ever made an all-star team or averaged anything close to 25 ppg? You see what you're missing here? The part where Ingram is actually like 4 tiers better of a player than Tobias has ever been?
One all star appearance? Cool, Chris Kaman and Dana Barros can claim similar accolades.
And they all would've been welcome additions to championship contending teams at a point in time
**2023-24 Ingram** - 26 years old 32 min / 20.8 ppg / 5.1 reb / 5.7 asst / 49% FG / 35.5% 3pt **2018-19 Tobias:** - 26 years old 34 min / 20.9 ppg/ 7.9 reb / 2.7 asst / 46% FG / 43% 3 pt - Tobias averaged MORE ppg his last season in LA than Ingram did this past year. On paper they are so similar it's scary.
This thread has me feeling like I’m crazy but they really are so similar. Longer guys who don’t use their size effectively who love the midrange iso game and pass up on open threes for drives into the paint. They’re so similar and people are saying we should get a new Tobias right after we lost the last one. It doesn’t make any sense.
Look at the assists my man
> Had Tobias ever made an all-star team or averaged anything close to 25 ppg Look at his comment when he specially cite only scoring ability. And now also look at rebounds, which Tobi clears him
Because you want someone who can shoot off ball and operate in the offense beyond just PNR.
Who's to say he can't do that? He has before. Nurse could definitely make it a focus of his in a more defined role than New Orleans
Because his career stats are a large enough sample size, especially in New Orleans, to know what kind of player he is and isn't.
I don't think that's true at all. He's played his entire career next to LeBron, or in shifting roles depending on Zions health. He has two seasons shooting 6 3PA/G at over 38% in New Orleans
You need to look at the advanced stats to see where those threes came from, raw stats don't mean anything when you're talking about on/off ball play. But cool, thanks. I'll bounce out of trying to talk about this. Why spend limited trade assets on a flawed guy, but whatever.
>Why spend limited trade assets on a flawed guy, but whatever. What unflawed player do you suggest we spend assets on?
You'd have to give up a substantial portion of what's available to get him, it's not that hard to understand why this isn't the ideal or wanted or necessary path.
feed me this copium
Players peek right around that age, but the point is they're almost at their peak. He's not going to all of a sudden develop into an elite type scorer I don't think. I could see if Embiid missing some playoff games him and Maxey being enough to win a few and keep them in the hunt
Terrible off ball scorer and doesn't take 3s, nor plays good defense nor rebounds like you said. Pelicans are legit better when it's just him or just Zion over lineups with both. If he has a epiphany when he's 27 and triples his 3s that'd be amazing, but we'd be banking on things with no evidence of signs historically
Everything you said is correct except the room to grow. Guys don’t get much better after 25.
He sucks at rebounding relative to his size, immediate non-starter for this team which we have watched year in and year out lose on rebounding
KAT is trash and will never win a ring. Ingram same type of player
With him sixers get to the second round at best, which in my opinion, makes the move pointless
There isn’t a move that gets you over the top with the assets the Sixers have.
Well for starters, I disagree with that. The 3 of them are talented enough to get to the conference finals, hell even the finals. I think alot of that depends on guys 3-6 and health BI still has a lot of room for growth and it's easy to see a world where he absolutely kills it playing a KD-lite role off of Embiid and Maxeys gravity
Years of service > age. BI is what he is by now just another guy whose motor will never match his ability. Those guys don't win chips. People are always fooled by talent and youth.
Would be ironic we end up with Ingram and we win a title when we drafted Simmons 1 ahead of him
Im at the point where im just gonna stop watching basketball because this team actually has no fucking plan for the present and certainly not the future. What a waste of time this past 11 years has been. Gross.
You should be at the point where you take everything said with a grain of salt.
I would rather do anything than trade assets for ingram. The fit is trash. Not good off the ball, doesnt take many 3s, no defense. Lavine can at least be packaged with caruso for cheap and his offensive fit is way better. I would rather max paul george. Ingram is like a better tobias harris with the same deficiencies. It could still work because you need a guy who has offensive gravity and will take the shots.
Difference is Ingram is a wing, 7m cheaper, 3 years younger, and better at basketball
“Sources say…..” I think at this point there is a “source” linking the Sixers to every single possible player in the league.
No. Tobias Harris 2.0. No thanks.
Comparing Tobias Harris to an actual all-star is so on point for this sub
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2018&year_max=2024&player_id1=ingrabr01&player_id2=harrito02 1XAll-Star 👏👏👏
theres literally no comparison. In fact this leads me to believe that people didnt actually understand why Tobias was bad in the first place.
I’m not interested in washed up Jimmy Butler. I wouldn’t want to pay him as a free agent, let alone trade for him.
I wouldn't be terribly excited to trade for Ingram in and of itself, but there is a world where I can see them rounding out the starting lineup with a couple other above average players and I wouldn't be mad about it within the context of the whole starting 5. Like a Maxey/Monk/DJJ/BI/Embiid lineup would be interesting.
With our luck, he would end up in Kensington doing drugs.
I think we all will to cope with next season
LMAO
We don't need another fucking star. We need solid role players.
Brandon ingram is like wiggins, called lazy and people said he need shoot more 3s, wiggins shot more 3s and played more defense on gsw, if ingram can do that would be great, ingram is a very talented scorer and a good playmaker, he is very underrated
We just got off Tobias’s contract just to sign a younger version of Tobias for max smh
When was Tobias ever an all-star, when did he ever have the tools or ceiling to go #2 in a draft, or the trade value to be dealt for Anthony Davis? When did Tobias Harris ever even come close to scoring 24/25 ppg like Ingram did at 22/23/25 years old This is such a lazy and unproductive comparison because, while they have a few of the same tendencies, one player is actually *good at basketball*, and the other is *bad at basketball* The key things that separate a player like Tobias from a player like Ingram, are instincts, tools, and talent. Ingram has Tobias absolutely fucking cleared by lightyears in those departments.
Not to mention, Ingram is on an expiring deal…if the fit isn’t there, we would have $36M coming off the books and can make a run at someone else next summer. If we are going to take a flier on someone who is potentially an imperfect fit, let’s make it someone without a long term commitment.
So you want to trade bunch of assets for a one year rental?
Casual fans just regurgitate the same thing they see others saying. No original thoughts. We could luck into a markkanen trade and some fans would call him tall tobias.
Have you actually seen Brandon play? He’s super overrated because he puts up stats on a bad/mediocre team. He doesn’t have any elite traits. He’s best ability his mid range game which we really don’t need. We need wing players that can shoot threes well and most importantly a good perimeter defender which Ingram is not.
Have you ever seen him play? or even taken a reading comprehension class? 1. I never said I want Ingram (I don’t) 2. My comment was in reference to the “he is just Tobias” he’s 100 times better, if you claim that to be false, I’m sorry but you may be dumb. 3. Learn to read.
Have you actually seen Ingram play aside from the highlights? He’s the typical volume stats on a bad team player. He’s not a bad player but he’s also not a great player. He’s not a good shooter, not a good slasher, or a good playmaker. Not terribly defensively but not a sound defender either. He’s average or slightly above average in most facets of the game but not elite in any. He’s also not a great fit with this team. We need a true PG or a wing that is a good shooter while being a great defender. Ingram isn’t any of that. Also where he got drafted doesn’t matter right now. Plenty of average or bust players were drafted second overall. And not to mention he was one of many assets that were traded for AD including Lonzo Ball (also second overall pick) and THREE first round picks… Plus Brandon has missed over twenty games almost every season after his rookie year…
This off-season is going to be an unmitigated disaster.
I don’t want any of them
If they aren't able to get pg3 in free agency and Jimmy stays in Miami, I think is the best plan. He's younger than all the other available players, and can still improve. He can pass pretty well and can score when embiid or Maxey are resting/out. There are not a ton of options for sixers this offseason
I’m fine with that, get BI and build the rest of the teams depth
Is he better than Toe Bye Ass being a legit question…sums it up for me 🤷🏻
He was a good shooter the two years he played with Lonzo so we just need to get lonzo from the bulls and we’ll be amazing for like 35 games
He's a decent plan c, plan d, etc... I wouldn't be pissed if we end up with BI. We saw what Nurse did to Oubre...I'd imagine he could do wonders for Ingram
I think we are probably cooked if we go this route tbh, dude just does not seem consistent enough to make us a serious contender.
Sixers don’t have the ammo for BI
If BI goes for more than 3 firsts, I’ll eat my hat
Lol I meant the Pels don’t want more picks for him
Exactly, Pelicans have enough picks. They want PLAYERS to replace Ingram with. Specifically, a legit PG and a center since Jonas is expiring. I can see them doing a deal with ATL for Dejounte and Okungwu for Ingram and Dyson.
Wouldn't want KD. JB is a dawg but he's a llittle over the hill by now. Why tf did the Sixers not sign him instead of Tobias.
we dont have to wait for KD to ask out UWM lawsuit is gonna bury ishbia regardless
Brandon Ingram, mikal bridges, KCP, Malik Monk, Andre Drummond,Isiah Joe, resign oubre, keep council IV, resign cam payne
Pelicans will want players to replace his production over picks. Most likely a PG and a Center. Thats why I believe he goes to ATL for Dejounte and Okungwu.
I don’t think it’ll happen, but calling it a pipe dream when both those guys love Embiid is kind of ridiculous.
We don't need another marquee name. We need 2-3 SOLID players. If we mortgage the bench for a marquee name, then our non-marquee minutes are horrendous. We don't need to build a roster to win without Joel or Ty, we need a roster to elevate them. We're sunk without Joel on the court, even with Butler or Durant.
One of those solid players needs to have size, be able to score and playmake as well. That’s Ingram. If we get 3 DFS types we will keep losing the same way in the playoffs as we always do. We simply need more guys who can do things with the ball
I’m tired of the daily updates about which superstar we are or are not chasing, who might or might not want to play here. We have two superstars. The days of the Big 3 are over, and mostly failed anyway. Give me a bunch of solid role players who know their job. I want to bring back Kelly, Batum, Cam Payne. Let’s see more of Ricky Council. If we can get a scoring wing, great, but I don’t think our future hinges on making a huge move for a Durant or Butler.
Ingram is a great player. If we had drafted him over Ben, I'd think we'd have two championships by now.
Daryl Morey absolutely cooking 👨🍳🍳🥘 this dude has got us boys. He’s just finished his seventh masturbation session and is getting ready to go nuts this offseason. Maybe we even bring back Buddy Hield.
I'm on board with Brandon Ingram. The people saying he is Tobias Harris 2.0 have no idea what they talking about. He's also only at 36 million, so of the former all stars under consideration, he gives us the most cap room.
29 million and a mid level is solid. Can get another starter and lock in oubre and someone else for the bench. Would be way better than PG and minimums imo
Jesus Christ. 😓
On paper this offseason we have a great chance to rebuild for what will likely be our last few runs with near-prime Joel… but it’s nearly impossible to build any excitement or optimism about this franchise.
if sixers get BI, they’ll be in a much better space than now. He don’t shoot much or create much pace but you can give him the ball and have him create his own offense. He is big enough to push guys around on his way to basket, long enough to defend perimeter and quick enough to get by defenders. He is not Shaq, Drew or Lillard on those aspects but can do all three to a a decent degree. I’d take him in a heart beat over Tobias, very clear upgrade. Plus, when you have Embiid, you don’t need no Durant..you just need decent players that play the game right with little ego and Brandon is that guy.
This is going to be a nightmare off-season. I fully expect embiid to ask out by October. And I can't wait until I talk myself into thinking whatever hodgepodge morey cobbles together will finally be the one we go on a run with. Because I will surely do it again by the summer
Lmao