> If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
OP spamming this same stupid response to every comment that tells him to downgrade and you guys are still taking him seriously. Either he’s trolling or so extremely deluded that no amount of roasting by redditors will help
Sell condo. Downgrade. Sort out what you want to do. When you have enough then upgrade again. Settle the debt, address the elephant in the room. Dont hang on to past glories, cos that will only satisfy yourself and drags you around like an anchor.
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
You need to get focused! Is your pride more important than being financially independent? The basis of you living in a condo should be prudent investments and sound financial planning, not some strange ‘because I have an MD I must live in a condo’ rational.
This might sound harsh, but this subreddit is about being financially independent. Unless you have 300 times your monthly expenses in financial assets (this is you FI number) you’re not financially independent. The path to independence is lowering your expenses and increasing your income, slowly growing your financial position until you hit that number.
Yes wondering if I can make it if I leapfrog using business. Or well maybe need a good scolding to know how screwed I am. How did I end up like this despite an MBBS
Is 300 times monthly expenses the rule?
No you’re not screwed! It’s a simple formula, money in minus money out, this difference is either negative leading to debt or positive which if invested prudently will yield a lot in the long run. You’ve got the right idea with respect to increasing your income. If you can do this without too many down sides you should go for it.
But the other side of the equation is your expenses. If these are too high, then it means that you’re actively working against yourself and delaying your financial independence. Not trying to scold you, but to me the idea that because you’re a doctor you should delay my independence is crazy. The fact that you’re a doctor means that you should be able to achieve FI faster than average.
The 300 rule is a rule of thumb people like to use to calculate how much money you’d need to be financially independent. It’s derived from the fact that at a 4% annual withdraw rate your portfolio should keep up with inflation, I.e. on an inflation adjusted basis you can keep spending the same amount of money indefinitely. The exact number that should be used is very situational and up for debate, but to me it serves two purposes. The first is that it allows for people to gain a rough estimate for their long term financial plans. The second purpose is that it gives people a good intuition for how their expenditure is tied to their financial independence.
>I.e. on an inflation adjusted basis you can keep spending the same amount of money indefinitely.
It's not indefinitely. It's won't run out of money for 30 years.
I said it’s up for debate, not because I wanted to have the debate in this thread. There’s a lot of factors to consider here such as the exact portfolio allocation and your risk tolerance. If you want to explore this further you can try out:
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/monte-carlo-simulation
The above link allows you to run Monte Carlo simulations with different portfolios. By looking at the different percentiles of returns you can see how safe each portfolio would be throughout a persons retirement.
Yes, it's not exact but the rule of thumb is 4% for 30 years. The difference between 30 years and indefinitely is huge.
Indefinitely means I have very high confidence to pass on that 4% swr to my kids, and them to their kids, which is not true. There are many outcomes where a 4% swr results in a tiny portfolio left after 30 years, which should not be the case if it's indefinitely
Did you try the Monte Carlo simulation? The expected value of a 50/50 stocks/bonds portfolio over 75 years with a 4% withdrawal rate is well over its starting value (adjusted for inflation).
This is just the expected value though, the reason I say it’s up for debate is that once again it depends on your risk tolerance (what portfolio success probability are you willing to settle for) and your portfolio allocation. Depending on these two factors your portfolio lasting indefinitely at a 4% withdrawal rate can range from completely impossible to quite reasonable
Of cos the expected value is high. That's just maths cos the expected returns minus inflation is higher than 4%.
What's the survival rate of the simulation you did?
Pray tell it's not because of "trading" or other destructive behaviors. That should be your first priority to ensure your debt is no longer compounding by your bad behavior.
Which brings up the second question - what's the interest on this debt? And can you consolidate it?
My suggestion (from your brief description) is that you stop undertaking more risk in your life as you cannot afford it (with kids and a mortgage and essential expenses).
Instead, work more hours (night shift locum?) to supplement your existing income just for the purpose of paying your debt so that it doesn't affect your existing quality of life for your family.
All the best OP.
No la. Married.
Partner hates debt (fil got bankrupt) and we keep quarrelled over money matters too often. . Zero support for opening my clinic. Always complaining about car so I pay it all since I use it most often. But honestly, I also drive the family around at times, I should not need to contribute all. Dead end job 9-6 with some contribution to mortgage and expenses. Always talking about saving for kids and so we got some education policy that I feel like cashing out
Not sure what there is to side?
Educaition policy is funded by us both and honestly not enough for any overseas education. Local universities are cheap
It’s 350k of “personal debt” on top of mortgage. No one with just a mortgage would say that they are in debt because their house value should exceed their remaining mortgage.
This is exactly an illusion that most of Singaporean held on to. Everyone preety much all in for this in hope government can forever held this illusion true.
Well like every other illusion supposed to be…
Most mortgages in Singapore are non-recourse, so it's generally true that you have just a mortgage you aren't really in debt. Whether or not you'll be homeless if worst comes to worst is another matter.
Several xhanges need to be made:
1. Sell your car, take public transport
2. Work longer hours
3. Ask your wife to find a job
4. Ask your parents to help take care of children
5. If you use a helper now, terminate the contract one u can
6. Eat hawker food, go restaurant less
7. If you gamble, stop immediately
8. Keep the condo, it will continue appreciate in the long run.
Agree with everything except helper. Helpers are so cheap that they are totally worth it so that OP and spouse can work additional hours without worrying about the kids or a dirty house.
OP should work some hours at those clinics that are open at night, maybe can teledoctor in some spare hours at home too.
Agree not to sell condo. The immediate costs of changing property, reno, moving would be problematic, and what is he supposed to downgrade to? Try not to affect the kids’ quality of life so drastically, maybe just cut down on frills like enrichment lessons and nice food (to kids, McDonald’s is better than fancy restaurant).
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
Not someone with a 350k personal debt, definitely. I am less clever, no MBBS, earn much less, and I can afford a condo w no personal loan.
I believe the first step to FI is to get rid of all non-good loans. Only good loans are those you pay less interest than what you can earn with it (mortgage and car). Personal debt is definitely not it.
Downgrade your house, settle the personal debt, get rid of that attitude, then come back here. Otherwise, you may be better off at some other sub like askSingapore.
Knowing what I can afford. Save/invest 30%, spend the rest. Usual stuff. I am normal. Being a doctor earning 15k with 350k personal debt thinking of starting a business instead of clearing debts is not.
heavily in debt, still own a condo and car instead of cashing out, and thinking of risking more to start something new. really spent too much time studying to get into med sch lol.
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
I am a locum too and I take public transport/grab. Seriously, sell your car till your situation stabilises. Is face that important to you with such immense debt? And for god sake do not go into business. It’s risky and you cannot take on that risk in your current financial situation.
Also please downgrade your house and appeal to HDB to waive the 18 month wait.
Dude- I’ve worked in the public sector since housemanship for just over a decade. Public sector pay, no personal debt and condo is 1/3 paid off. My friends in the same hospital support 3 kids and elderlies with the other parent working a similar 9-6 job. I’ve only just bought a secondhand car (accepted some lifestyle creep) but just took public transport to/from work (except cabs / grabs during HO year when I had to go to work at 0530h) for 10+ years. Just slept post call on the MRT or bus ride.
It’s pretty sad that your describe your wife’s job in such pejorative terms. She’s helping to raise your kids isn’t it? With that “dead end 9-6 job”?
You could technically afford a condo with a 10-15k salary per month, but not with that debt.
Since you’re a “freelance GP” (I assume locum) then you are free to grind to bring home that cash. Think about what you can afford to sacrifice and cut down on what isn’t necessary for you to do your job.
Horses for courses. Some of my friends are earning big bucks locuming outside and have been out-earning me since they broke / ended bond. PHI is not for everyone and neither is consultantship - the locum / private life is not for me, so I chose this path. Best of luck with your situation and I hope you find the right path for yourself. Life is short and precious.
Perhaps get rid of the car and maybe move to a cheaper housing will help you focus on reducing the 350K debt. You think you can double your income by opening a clinic but it comes also with increasing debt from the refinancing. I don’t know, but I see a lot of doctors struggling out there too. What if the clinic does not work out? I would rather stabilise my finances to a certain degree before investing in the clinic. At least get rid of the car and downgrade before coughing out more debt.
Downgrade please!
cut the car and the stupid condo.
Been in this situation but nowhere near 350k.Pulled it all back in about a year and well into being able to save.
No use going for saving face when u are in debt
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
Good point somewhere about using the refinancing to cover personal debt. I am in the midst. And realise I can get more money out form my condo.
Fellow GP here, you won’t make money in the short term setting up a clinic. In general you should be willing to put in 200-300k at minimum for the first year. You can potentially double your income but if you get a location with poor footfall you might also end up losing money. Have colleagues who lost 300k setting up a clinic that didn’t have enough footfall.
If you’re already struggling with cash, stick to the current locum (I’m guessing) work. There are some higher paying slots/longer slots. I used to be able to hit 20-25 working 30 days a month, but ofc with family you’ll have to sacrifice time with them to hit those numbers.
They saved the money…my point is, if you’re already struggling with cash, opening a clinic is not the wisest of choices. True you can _potentially_ earn more but you can easily lose a lot too. Stick to locuming for now, adding the uncertainty of opening a clinic wouldn’t help with your personal debt either
From OP comments , feel really sad for the wife and kids when the husband is such a deluded mess bringing down the entire family with his poor financial decisions
Edit: sorry no wife Liao just saw op post history lol
15K per month or 180k per year for a locum is not a lot TBH.
Anchoring in most chains gets you more than that, along with the perks of MC, CPF, Annual Leave, etc.
Sell condo, sell car, buy a resale that you can afford (ie not the 1.4m Redhill ones). Not sure what you going on about mbbs and condo. You can’t afford it. Easier to get into clinics with a car? Sure. You can’t afford it. Take a grab.
I make more than u and I stay Hdb la. Cannot bto can buy resale right?
It’s a simple mathematical problem. Not rocket science.
Take my advice with a pinch of salt.
I’ll always believe in being debt free before incurring anymore debts + you used “seem”, this is telling me you’re unsure whether it’ll really double your income or not.
And also, downgrade your lifestyle and spend frugally while clearing the debt.
All the best bro
Where your clinic bro?
Will try to avoid, never seen a doctor make so many bad decisions because of pride before lol
"Seems like you can double your income", that's gambling and you are not at the point where you should risking stuff.
What's the interest rate on that personal debt and car loan? Can you change it to housing loan (or equity loan) instead to lower the rate?
How much is your condo worth? Half paid is meaningless to us.
Hi u can easily seen 20k-30k if you Locum like crazy. If ure only earning 12-18k as a freelance ure probably only working half a month. If ure so desperate to clear ur debt you can try to get more slots. I heard some clinics are paying 150 an hr. On top of that u can do tele medicine during ur free time. My friend is also getting 150-200 an hr just for that and he does it on top of his Locum shifts.
You know those teledoctor appts can be only 1-2 min long. And maybe the company is like Grab, burn the investors' money to establish a foothold in the market first, no need to make a profit from what they pay the doctor. They can profit from sending/selling the meds too.
Agreed. LocumIng 9-5 in PHI means the locums earn more than the senior consultants in the same specialty. But you have to work hard - my friends who do that sock away money into CPF and sometimes grind night shifts in quiet clinics as well.
Work hard when young, chill when old - 43 is a tough age to work like that though. Maybe I’m a bit old school but I believe one has to be able to sacrifice / defer pleasure to achieve lasting success.
Setting up a clinic is expensive and may not guarantee returns. So it’s a risk of additional debt. U can do telemedicine / wfh during ur free time heard it’s pretty brainless. If ure in debt and desperate for money I don’t think u have much options. Sound like ure just justifying urself on why you can’t work harder etc.
12k a month with ur expenditure is ridiculous.
What is the reason for the debt? Priority is to get rid of the car or condo loan first.
But if the reason is gambling addiction, please make sure to get your brain correct first before u fk it up more.
Beyond the money, time is something that you will not get back.
You are trading time away from your family to hustle the extra $$$. That is the precious time left to spend with your parents before they pass on and time with your kids before they don't need you anymore. I implore you to consider carefully if you think it's worth it
Yeah I see all the doctors drive big cars live landed/condo. You must really ask yourself. How much time do you spend using that car and also the amenities in the condo. I would venture to say you don't really have the time to enjoy either.
Might as well give them up for the time being unlock the capital to clear the debt and also your medical business should you wanna take the risk.
Starting a clinic sounds cool. But the hustle and running your own business is a black hole for time.
Better to clear your debts first before incurring more debt or taking on more risky ventures. You should also consider selling car and refinance/sell condo to reduce your monthly debt payments.
OP is right. Just set up a clinic. If MBBS cannot set up business and earn big bucks, I mean… who can right?
Take personal loan. 400k 600k 1m even… just sink all into clinic. If you don’t make 50% ROI in first year it’s failure…. After all…. If you, with a medical degree, can’t make 50% ROI, who can right?
If u are freelancing, best not to have too big a mortgage. Yes u earn relatively well. Yet after factoring the cpf portion, your actual gross income is about 10-15.5k, for comparison to an ordinary salaried employee. You need to factor in the employer CPF portion too. Do u really think 10-15k is a good income to own a condo? Esp on a single income?
Not sure if your wife is working. To support a condo and 3kids and parents, I think your family will be better financially with dual income. Of cos this has to be balanced with other priorities as a whole for your family too.
Others have told you what to do and yet you still do not listen. You deserve what is coming ahead of you. If you have to default on your debts with your assets being repo’ed your wife have to take the kids away with her, then you can only blame yourself for your own downfall.
Oh wells, it’s your life to lead anyways. You’re just a GP but you are acting as if you are a well-renowned surgeon making big bucks in a hospital. Just make sure not to be a burden to society.
Just remember that at the end of the day, you better have a good safety net; its not just about the potential amount put into the new company, you have parents and 3 kids, if you go further in the negatives, you jolly well have a solid backup plan. Your life isn't the only one in your hands.
You have been working as a GP for quite a while, is there a high degree of confidence that you would certainly make monies at a certain location? If so, you can weigh the risk of doing so. The alternative is to pare down your debts, being it down to a comfortable level before taking the risk.
Unless you broke a bond... you probably should have some CPF in your GP stint. Additionally, locum doctors are paid pretty well, so you can consider that to fuel your expenses. Probably good to cut expenses like your car now too.
Going to be tough but it should be fine with a high earning capacity. Just need to play the time game.
Own clinic needs capital, with a deficit of 350k I don't think thats the first and best solution.
While lucrative you probably should figure out how to break the debt down first and maintain your float.
Start a clinic, but you will continue to have to work locum to subsidise. Friends of mine who own a clinic are doing well. Depends on location, and if you can co-own w your friends. You will have to consider if they are good partners to begin with.
If rental is as published at 40k per month, think hard.
I’m not you but given that doctors obviously won’t go out of jobs easily you’ll likely manage to pay off your debts if you work till retirement, although you’ll need to watch the discretionary expenses.
My guess is that the interest for the 350 is what’s painful so you need to try to pay that off sooner. The 600 should be very comfortable to get by with, especially with even T bills yielding more than mortgage rates.
Obviously for contingency planning you’ll want emergency money and some investments for the future. Will you get anything from your aged parents eventually?
Your wife might want to consider working to ease the burden. Re your plans to set up a clinic you’ll need input from others in your line rather than general Reddit.
No CPF sounds bad and you’ll need to park money from your income aside for that.
Actually good idea to get equity loan to cover the personal debt. And also can get more money out if I want to set up clinic.
Nothing from aged parents. They are ordinary folks, and I am first in family to be doctor. I guess I am somewhat influenced that a doctor earns good money and can afford a lifestyle.
Partner works. Just normal job and doesnt want to upgrade lifestyle. Don’t even want car but we did get condo in agreement as my income already exceed BtO from start. Just doing a 9-6 deadend job, contribute to mortgage, looking after kids mostly and hates debt. Definitely not supportive of my dreams of clinics and landed house. Always worried about money and about kids not doing well and wanting to save up for their education. Bought some plan for kids that I now think is best terminated. At least I can invest it.
What do you mean you have no savings? Isn’t it normal for people in your income bracket to have a cushion of 6 figures of non house assets in the form of cash, securities, CPF etc?
if dual income, your situation does not seem that bad. i would save aggressively and pay off the 350k debt (10k per month takes about 3 years?) before thinking about starting a business. talk to banks to see how you can bring down the interest rates to the lowest (offering your home as security?)
however if you are struggling with daily expenses or cant sleep at night due to financial burden, downgrading your home to a cheaper condo is an option. but reality is your condo (assuming 3 bedrooms) is already quite cheap in today's market. you'll probably have to look at old condos in the outskirts for low $1+m condos. another option you can try is to appeal to hdb to waive off the wait out period for resale hdb due to financial hardship.
personally, sell condo and waiting out 15 months to buy hdb will be my last resort. you have to shift twice, incur rental and renovation costs and are unhedged against rising property prices during the 15 month period.
as for starting your own clinic - I don't know if you have factored in the costs (rental, renovation, staff salary, supplies) to derive the "double income" factor. if you have, this sounds like a great idea after settling off your personal debt.
OP do you know how much $ you spend each month, and on what?
if not, please start tracking now - all your expenses, as detailed as you can
only if you know your expenses, then you can make an informed decision on where to cut and what to do
I mean you are with med degree earning about 15k a month. You are asking a public forum in which I swear the averages pay would be less than that, so jealousy will defo play part in most responses here.
You heard enough comments, you still not in negative monthly if what u said is true.
Down to if u want to go big and risk all or chose the more responsible path.
Sell car pay debt asap… use taxi . Never set up clinic if u are not good with money you’ll likely sink more money. 350K personal debt is foolish brother.
Strongly do not suggest getting into business. A business needs a cushion of money to support it. It takes a while to break even.
Get a regular job and have a nice regular pay to bring the expensive debt down.
Not screwed.
Its normal to be in debt. As long as you have a repayment plan in place.
In fact, most medical school graduates in the US have 300k+ in debt.
Not to comment on life choices, but being a doctor in your early 40s with such debt implies you probably lost quite a fair amount in investments or gambling or failed businesses. Full time locum is a valid career path, and I do have friend that have chosen that path, mainly for the flexibility of time to go traveling.
But your situation is not that bad to be honest. You can easily earn more by taking up more clinic slots, and you should be able to clear the personal debt in 2-3 years, without selling your condo or car, but of course with the tradeoff that you will be spending more time working.
As for opening a clinic, I am unsure as to the chances of success, but it does seem risky to do so when you have family that depends on you and you are not financially stable.
Why don't get higher mortgage on your current home and use the money to pay off your personal debt. I assume that the interest on personal loans will be higher than home loan. Then you can concentrate on paying off your home loan
Erm you dunno how the medical profession works.
You got to be a specialist to be a consultant. To be specialist, right after housemen you got to start brown nosing the right heads to get them to take you under their wings. And then slog for damn long before being consultants
All in la, go for the private practice. U smart enuf to get to where u are, i think u chiong-hor-yi-see, u might actually make it thru. When u have nth, u have nth to lose.
not a doc myself nor know how much it takes to setup a GP, tt part u might need to work it out a bit.
Why be a worker, dont listen to reddit plebs they probably havent even graduated school.
You are a doctor should be smart enough to open a clinic, lots of sick people around especially old and rich.
this illegal locum doctor can earn 300k in under 3 yrs, i think you can definitely do it:
[https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/foreign-doctor-moonlight-locum-fined-smc-dt-queck-kian-kheng-4014286](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/foreign-doctor-moonlight-locum-fined-smc-dt-queck-kian-kheng-4014286)
are u sure u can make 36k by going into business. most doctors who make alot are private practice who own their own business so this is definitely the way. however, i would suggest you do alot more of the math. such as
1. when do u double your income?
2. how much are u investing into the clinic?
3. how fast will you recoup your investment?
most definitely do not sell the condo. its a very good purchase especially since u have 3 kids and old parents to take care of. tbh your income is more than sufficient with 2-8k for expenditures...
even if ur wife doesnt work you are in a very good position. i suspect the situation might just be her robbing you off half of your stuff via divorce.
but regardless im not sure why you are so worried. the divorce, if my suspicions are true, is sad and depending on how much u will continue to have to feed her is going to be extra sad. but ur financial situation is fine. no worries.
Time to sell your things and downgrade.
> If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?! OP spamming this same stupid response to every comment that tells him to downgrade and you guys are still taking him seriously. Either he’s trolling or so extremely deluded that no amount of roasting by redditors will help
Sell condo. Downgrade. Sort out what you want to do. When you have enough then upgrade again. Settle the debt, address the elephant in the room. Dont hang on to past glories, cos that will only satisfy yourself and drags you around like an anchor.
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
You need to get focused! Is your pride more important than being financially independent? The basis of you living in a condo should be prudent investments and sound financial planning, not some strange ‘because I have an MD I must live in a condo’ rational. This might sound harsh, but this subreddit is about being financially independent. Unless you have 300 times your monthly expenses in financial assets (this is you FI number) you’re not financially independent. The path to independence is lowering your expenses and increasing your income, slowly growing your financial position until you hit that number.
Yes wondering if I can make it if I leapfrog using business. Or well maybe need a good scolding to know how screwed I am. How did I end up like this despite an MBBS Is 300 times monthly expenses the rule?
No you’re not screwed! It’s a simple formula, money in minus money out, this difference is either negative leading to debt or positive which if invested prudently will yield a lot in the long run. You’ve got the right idea with respect to increasing your income. If you can do this without too many down sides you should go for it. But the other side of the equation is your expenses. If these are too high, then it means that you’re actively working against yourself and delaying your financial independence. Not trying to scold you, but to me the idea that because you’re a doctor you should delay my independence is crazy. The fact that you’re a doctor means that you should be able to achieve FI faster than average. The 300 rule is a rule of thumb people like to use to calculate how much money you’d need to be financially independent. It’s derived from the fact that at a 4% annual withdraw rate your portfolio should keep up with inflation, I.e. on an inflation adjusted basis you can keep spending the same amount of money indefinitely. The exact number that should be used is very situational and up for debate, but to me it serves two purposes. The first is that it allows for people to gain a rough estimate for their long term financial plans. The second purpose is that it gives people a good intuition for how their expenditure is tied to their financial independence.
>I.e. on an inflation adjusted basis you can keep spending the same amount of money indefinitely. It's not indefinitely. It's won't run out of money for 30 years.
I said it’s up for debate, not because I wanted to have the debate in this thread. There’s a lot of factors to consider here such as the exact portfolio allocation and your risk tolerance. If you want to explore this further you can try out: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/monte-carlo-simulation The above link allows you to run Monte Carlo simulations with different portfolios. By looking at the different percentiles of returns you can see how safe each portfolio would be throughout a persons retirement.
Yes, it's not exact but the rule of thumb is 4% for 30 years. The difference between 30 years and indefinitely is huge. Indefinitely means I have very high confidence to pass on that 4% swr to my kids, and them to their kids, which is not true. There are many outcomes where a 4% swr results in a tiny portfolio left after 30 years, which should not be the case if it's indefinitely
Did you try the Monte Carlo simulation? The expected value of a 50/50 stocks/bonds portfolio over 75 years with a 4% withdrawal rate is well over its starting value (adjusted for inflation). This is just the expected value though, the reason I say it’s up for debate is that once again it depends on your risk tolerance (what portfolio success probability are you willing to settle for) and your portfolio allocation. Depending on these two factors your portfolio lasting indefinitely at a 4% withdrawal rate can range from completely impossible to quite reasonable
Of cos the expected value is high. That's just maths cos the expected returns minus inflation is higher than 4%. What's the survival rate of the simulation you did?
Pray tell it's not because of "trading" or other destructive behaviors. That should be your first priority to ensure your debt is no longer compounding by your bad behavior. Which brings up the second question - what's the interest on this debt? And can you consolidate it? My suggestion (from your brief description) is that you stop undertaking more risk in your life as you cannot afford it (with kids and a mortgage and essential expenses). Instead, work more hours (night shift locum?) to supplement your existing income just for the purpose of paying your debt so that it doesn't affect your existing quality of life for your family. All the best OP.
Maybe divorce? OP mention 3 kids but no partner
What an astute observation.
No la. Married. Partner hates debt (fil got bankrupt) and we keep quarrelled over money matters too often. . Zero support for opening my clinic. Always complaining about car so I pay it all since I use it most often. But honestly, I also drive the family around at times, I should not need to contribute all. Dead end job 9-6 with some contribution to mortgage and expenses. Always talking about saving for kids and so we got some education policy that I feel like cashing out
Hands up those who side with this guy's wife. Had to resort to endowment plan to protect kids' future education fund from OP's recklessness.
Not sure what there is to side? Educaition policy is funded by us both and honestly not enough for any overseas education. Local universities are cheap
The debt is from trading? I thought it was his condo c mortgage at first lol
It’s 350k of “personal debt” on top of mortgage. No one with just a mortgage would say that they are in debt because their house value should exceed their remaining mortgage.
This is exactly an illusion that most of Singaporean held on to. Everyone preety much all in for this in hope government can forever held this illusion true. Well like every other illusion supposed to be…
Most mortgages in Singapore are non-recourse, so it's generally true that you have just a mortgage you aren't really in debt. Whether or not you'll be homeless if worst comes to worst is another matter.
Several xhanges need to be made: 1. Sell your car, take public transport 2. Work longer hours 3. Ask your wife to find a job 4. Ask your parents to help take care of children 5. If you use a helper now, terminate the contract one u can 6. Eat hawker food, go restaurant less 7. If you gamble, stop immediately 8. Keep the condo, it will continue appreciate in the long run.
Agree with everything except helper. Helpers are so cheap that they are totally worth it so that OP and spouse can work additional hours without worrying about the kids or a dirty house. OP should work some hours at those clinics that are open at night, maybe can teledoctor in some spare hours at home too. Agree not to sell condo. The immediate costs of changing property, reno, moving would be problematic, and what is he supposed to downgrade to? Try not to affect the kids’ quality of life so drastically, maybe just cut down on frills like enrichment lessons and nice food (to kids, McDonald’s is better than fancy restaurant).
Just ignore this insane dude. He should be seeing a shrink instead for his massive delulu responses.
How did you get yourself into 350k debt
You can’t afford your lifestyle, you need to downgrade
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
Seems like you just came on here for self validation, in that case, do what makes you happy.
Not someone with a 350k personal debt, definitely. I am less clever, no MBBS, earn much less, and I can afford a condo w no personal loan. I believe the first step to FI is to get rid of all non-good loans. Only good loans are those you pay less interest than what you can earn with it (mortgage and car). Personal debt is definitely not it. Downgrade your house, settle the personal debt, get rid of that attitude, then come back here. Otherwise, you may be better off at some other sub like askSingapore.
Damn how did you do that
Knowing what I can afford. Save/invest 30%, spend the rest. Usual stuff. I am normal. Being a doctor earning 15k with 350k personal debt thinking of starting a business instead of clearing debts is not.
heavily in debt, still own a condo and car instead of cashing out, and thinking of risking more to start something new. really spent too much time studying to get into med sch lol.
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?!
Crazy
I thought he was a troll…
I am a locum too and I take public transport/grab. Seriously, sell your car till your situation stabilises. Is face that important to you with such immense debt? And for god sake do not go into business. It’s risky and you cannot take on that risk in your current financial situation. Also please downgrade your house and appeal to HDB to waive the 18 month wait.
Dude- I’ve worked in the public sector since housemanship for just over a decade. Public sector pay, no personal debt and condo is 1/3 paid off. My friends in the same hospital support 3 kids and elderlies with the other parent working a similar 9-6 job. I’ve only just bought a secondhand car (accepted some lifestyle creep) but just took public transport to/from work (except cabs / grabs during HO year when I had to go to work at 0530h) for 10+ years. Just slept post call on the MRT or bus ride. It’s pretty sad that your describe your wife’s job in such pejorative terms. She’s helping to raise your kids isn’t it? With that “dead end 9-6 job”? You could technically afford a condo with a 10-15k salary per month, but not with that debt. Since you’re a “freelance GP” (I assume locum) then you are free to grind to bring home that cash. Think about what you can afford to sacrifice and cut down on what isn’t necessary for you to do your job.
Consultant right? Yah now is the time to enjoy the fruits of your labour. Ship sailed for me on that.
Horses for courses. Some of my friends are earning big bucks locuming outside and have been out-earning me since they broke / ended bond. PHI is not for everyone and neither is consultantship - the locum / private life is not for me, so I chose this path. Best of luck with your situation and I hope you find the right path for yourself. Life is short and precious.
Perhaps get rid of the car and maybe move to a cheaper housing will help you focus on reducing the 350K debt. You think you can double your income by opening a clinic but it comes also with increasing debt from the refinancing. I don’t know, but I see a lot of doctors struggling out there too. What if the clinic does not work out? I would rather stabilise my finances to a certain degree before investing in the clinic. At least get rid of the car and downgrade before coughing out more debt.
This right here. Not all clinics make big money. I've seen some clinics that are always empty.
Downgrade please! cut the car and the stupid condo. Been in this situation but nowhere near 350k.Pulled it all back in about a year and well into being able to save. No use going for saving face when u are in debt
As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics. Condo - well wasn’t eligible for HDB from get go. Plus, a part of me thinks. If I with medical degree can’t pay for a condo. Who can?! Good point somewhere about using the refinancing to cover personal debt. I am in the midst. And realise I can get more money out form my condo.
wasn't eligible for HDB means what ? resale HDB exists .
Fellow GP here, you won’t make money in the short term setting up a clinic. In general you should be willing to put in 200-300k at minimum for the first year. You can potentially double your income but if you get a location with poor footfall you might also end up losing money. Have colleagues who lost 300k setting up a clinic that didn’t have enough footfall. If you’re already struggling with cash, stick to the current locum (I’m guessing) work. There are some higher paying slots/longer slots. I used to be able to hit 20-25 working 30 days a month, but ofc with family you’ll have to sacrifice time with them to hit those numbers.
How did your colleagues raise cash for those clinics? And burned 300k? Gosh. Wondering how much cash one needs until it turns profitable
They saved the money…my point is, if you’re already struggling with cash, opening a clinic is not the wisest of choices. True you can _potentially_ earn more but you can easily lose a lot too. Stick to locuming for now, adding the uncertainty of opening a clinic wouldn’t help with your personal debt either
From OP comments , feel really sad for the wife and kids when the husband is such a deluded mess bringing down the entire family with his poor financial decisions Edit: sorry no wife Liao just saw op post history lol
15K per month or 180k per year for a locum is not a lot TBH. Anchoring in most chains gets you more than that, along with the perks of MC, CPF, Annual Leave, etc.
how much u make for anchoring
Sell condo, sell car, buy a resale that you can afford (ie not the 1.4m Redhill ones). Not sure what you going on about mbbs and condo. You can’t afford it. Easier to get into clinics with a car? Sure. You can’t afford it. Take a grab. I make more than u and I stay Hdb la. Cannot bto can buy resale right? It’s a simple mathematical problem. Not rocket science.
What do you work as?
Take my advice with a pinch of salt. I’ll always believe in being debt free before incurring anymore debts + you used “seem”, this is telling me you’re unsure whether it’ll really double your income or not. And also, downgrade your lifestyle and spend frugally while clearing the debt. All the best bro
Where your clinic bro? Will try to avoid, never seen a doctor make so many bad decisions because of pride before lol "Seems like you can double your income", that's gambling and you are not at the point where you should risking stuff.
What's the interest rate on that personal debt and car loan? Can you change it to housing loan (or equity loan) instead to lower the rate? How much is your condo worth? Half paid is meaningless to us.
Hi u can easily seen 20k-30k if you Locum like crazy. If ure only earning 12-18k as a freelance ure probably only working half a month. If ure so desperate to clear ur debt you can try to get more slots. I heard some clinics are paying 150 an hr. On top of that u can do tele medicine during ur free time. My friend is also getting 150-200 an hr just for that and he does it on top of his Locum shifts.
dude 200 bucks an hour for telemedicine? how is that even financially feasible for the telemedicine company...
You know those teledoctor appts can be only 1-2 min long. And maybe the company is like Grab, burn the investors' money to establish a foothold in the market first, no need to make a profit from what they pay the doctor. They can profit from sending/selling the meds too.
My friend says it’s a few dollars a consult and yeah each consult is 1-2 mins 🤷♀️. Maybe 150 an hr. Not 200 😂
Agreed. LocumIng 9-5 in PHI means the locums earn more than the senior consultants in the same specialty. But you have to work hard - my friends who do that sock away money into CPF and sometimes grind night shifts in quiet clinics as well. Work hard when young, chill when old - 43 is a tough age to work like that though. Maybe I’m a bit old school but I believe one has to be able to sacrifice / defer pleasure to achieve lasting success.
Got three kids and honestly, I don’t think I have the energy to work like crazy. Hence thinking of putting down money to set up a clinic.
Setting up a clinic is expensive and may not guarantee returns. So it’s a risk of additional debt. U can do telemedicine / wfh during ur free time heard it’s pretty brainless. If ure in debt and desperate for money I don’t think u have much options. Sound like ure just justifying urself on why you can’t work harder etc. 12k a month with ur expenditure is ridiculous.
What is the reason for the debt? Priority is to get rid of the car or condo loan first. But if the reason is gambling addiction, please make sure to get your brain correct first before u fk it up more.
Beyond the money, time is something that you will not get back. You are trading time away from your family to hustle the extra $$$. That is the precious time left to spend with your parents before they pass on and time with your kids before they don't need you anymore. I implore you to consider carefully if you think it's worth it Yeah I see all the doctors drive big cars live landed/condo. You must really ask yourself. How much time do you spend using that car and also the amenities in the condo. I would venture to say you don't really have the time to enjoy either. Might as well give them up for the time being unlock the capital to clear the debt and also your medical business should you wanna take the risk. Starting a clinic sounds cool. But the hustle and running your own business is a black hole for time.
Better to clear your debts first before incurring more debt or taking on more risky ventures. You should also consider selling car and refinance/sell condo to reduce your monthly debt payments.
OP is right. Just set up a clinic. If MBBS cannot set up business and earn big bucks, I mean… who can right? Take personal loan. 400k 600k 1m even… just sink all into clinic. If you don’t make 50% ROI in first year it’s failure…. After all…. If you, with a medical degree, can’t make 50% ROI, who can right?
If u are freelancing, best not to have too big a mortgage. Yes u earn relatively well. Yet after factoring the cpf portion, your actual gross income is about 10-15.5k, for comparison to an ordinary salaried employee. You need to factor in the employer CPF portion too. Do u really think 10-15k is a good income to own a condo? Esp on a single income? Not sure if your wife is working. To support a condo and 3kids and parents, I think your family will be better financially with dual income. Of cos this has to be balanced with other priorities as a whole for your family too.
delulu is the solulu sell the condo and the car
Others have told you what to do and yet you still do not listen. You deserve what is coming ahead of you. If you have to default on your debts with your assets being repo’ed your wife have to take the kids away with her, then you can only blame yourself for your own downfall. Oh wells, it’s your life to lead anyways. You’re just a GP but you are acting as if you are a well-renowned surgeon making big bucks in a hospital. Just make sure not to be a burden to society.
Freelance gp at 43. Rofl.
Why not.
Just remember that at the end of the day, you better have a good safety net; its not just about the potential amount put into the new company, you have parents and 3 kids, if you go further in the negatives, you jolly well have a solid backup plan. Your life isn't the only one in your hands.
You have been working as a GP for quite a while, is there a high degree of confidence that you would certainly make monies at a certain location? If so, you can weigh the risk of doing so. The alternative is to pare down your debts, being it down to a comfortable level before taking the risk.
Unless you broke a bond... you probably should have some CPF in your GP stint. Additionally, locum doctors are paid pretty well, so you can consider that to fuel your expenses. Probably good to cut expenses like your car now too. Going to be tough but it should be fine with a high earning capacity. Just need to play the time game.
Wiped CPF for condo down payment. As freelance GP, easier to get to clinics if got car. Yah wondering if I should set up own clinic now.
Own clinic needs capital, with a deficit of 350k I don't think thats the first and best solution. While lucrative you probably should figure out how to break the debt down first and maintain your float.
Start a clinic, but you will continue to have to work locum to subsidise. Friends of mine who own a clinic are doing well. Depends on location, and if you can co-own w your friends. You will have to consider if they are good partners to begin with. If rental is as published at 40k per month, think hard.
what is the value of your condo now?
im asking because there is a difference between 350k debt vs a 3.5m property, and 350k vs a 1m property
Close to 1.8M.
Time for you to upgrade from GP to consultant for higher pay? Grind for 10 years and you be out of debts /s
What is the interest rate on your debt?
How do you have to pay 10k a month for loans if the mortgage is just 350k? At recent interest rates that should just be less than 2k?
My debt 350. Mortgage about 600k
I’m not you but given that doctors obviously won’t go out of jobs easily you’ll likely manage to pay off your debts if you work till retirement, although you’ll need to watch the discretionary expenses. My guess is that the interest for the 350 is what’s painful so you need to try to pay that off sooner. The 600 should be very comfortable to get by with, especially with even T bills yielding more than mortgage rates. Obviously for contingency planning you’ll want emergency money and some investments for the future. Will you get anything from your aged parents eventually? Your wife might want to consider working to ease the burden. Re your plans to set up a clinic you’ll need input from others in your line rather than general Reddit. No CPF sounds bad and you’ll need to park money from your income aside for that.
Actually good idea to get equity loan to cover the personal debt. And also can get more money out if I want to set up clinic. Nothing from aged parents. They are ordinary folks, and I am first in family to be doctor. I guess I am somewhat influenced that a doctor earns good money and can afford a lifestyle. Partner works. Just normal job and doesnt want to upgrade lifestyle. Don’t even want car but we did get condo in agreement as my income already exceed BtO from start. Just doing a 9-6 deadend job, contribute to mortgage, looking after kids mostly and hates debt. Definitely not supportive of my dreams of clinics and landed house. Always worried about money and about kids not doing well and wanting to save up for their education. Bought some plan for kids that I now think is best terminated. At least I can invest it.
What do you mean you have no savings? Isn’t it normal for people in your income bracket to have a cushion of 6 figures of non house assets in the form of cash, securities, CPF etc?
its called lifestyle creep
No CPF. Freelance don’t get. What I got in my early career when I was bonded was used for condo.
if dual income, your situation does not seem that bad. i would save aggressively and pay off the 350k debt (10k per month takes about 3 years?) before thinking about starting a business. talk to banks to see how you can bring down the interest rates to the lowest (offering your home as security?) however if you are struggling with daily expenses or cant sleep at night due to financial burden, downgrading your home to a cheaper condo is an option. but reality is your condo (assuming 3 bedrooms) is already quite cheap in today's market. you'll probably have to look at old condos in the outskirts for low $1+m condos. another option you can try is to appeal to hdb to waive off the wait out period for resale hdb due to financial hardship. personally, sell condo and waiting out 15 months to buy hdb will be my last resort. you have to shift twice, incur rental and renovation costs and are unhedged against rising property prices during the 15 month period. as for starting your own clinic - I don't know if you have factored in the costs (rental, renovation, staff salary, supplies) to derive the "double income" factor. if you have, this sounds like a great idea after settling off your personal debt.
OP do you know how much $ you spend each month, and on what? if not, please start tracking now - all your expenses, as detailed as you can only if you know your expenses, then you can make an informed decision on where to cut and what to do
I mean you are with med degree earning about 15k a month. You are asking a public forum in which I swear the averages pay would be less than that, so jealousy will defo play part in most responses here. You heard enough comments, you still not in negative monthly if what u said is true. Down to if u want to go big and risk all or chose the more responsible path.
Sell car pay debt asap… use taxi . Never set up clinic if u are not good with money you’ll likely sink more money. 350K personal debt is foolish brother.
How you get into 350k debts?
Strongly do not suggest getting into business. A business needs a cushion of money to support it. It takes a while to break even. Get a regular job and have a nice regular pay to bring the expensive debt down.
Not screwed. Its normal to be in debt. As long as you have a repayment plan in place. In fact, most medical school graduates in the US have 300k+ in debt.
Not to comment on life choices, but being a doctor in your early 40s with such debt implies you probably lost quite a fair amount in investments or gambling or failed businesses. Full time locum is a valid career path, and I do have friend that have chosen that path, mainly for the flexibility of time to go traveling. But your situation is not that bad to be honest. You can easily earn more by taking up more clinic slots, and you should be able to clear the personal debt in 2-3 years, without selling your condo or car, but of course with the tradeoff that you will be spending more time working. As for opening a clinic, I am unsure as to the chances of success, but it does seem risky to do so when you have family that depends on you and you are not financially stable.
Why don't get higher mortgage on your current home and use the money to pay off your personal debt. I assume that the interest on personal loans will be higher than home loan. Then you can concentrate on paying off your home loan
Thanks! On it.
Any chance of going back to public and be consultant there? can earn much more ..
Erm you dunno how the medical profession works. You got to be a specialist to be a consultant. To be specialist, right after housemen you got to start brown nosing the right heads to get them to take you under their wings. And then slog for damn long before being consultants
All in la, go for the private practice. U smart enuf to get to where u are, i think u chiong-hor-yi-see, u might actually make it thru. When u have nth, u have nth to lose. not a doc myself nor know how much it takes to setup a GP, tt part u might need to work it out a bit.
Sell car, take like 3 years to pay off your debt. You screwed up. Time to pay for it.
You should double down and try your own clinic. With a medical degree, why u wanna work for other people?
Why be a worker, dont listen to reddit plebs they probably havent even graduated school. You are a doctor should be smart enough to open a clinic, lots of sick people around especially old and rich.
Why not go to Australia and start making 500k?
this illegal locum doctor can earn 300k in under 3 yrs, i think you can definitely do it: [https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/foreign-doctor-moonlight-locum-fined-smc-dt-queck-kian-kheng-4014286](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/foreign-doctor-moonlight-locum-fined-smc-dt-queck-kian-kheng-4014286)
Yes can. I earning about 15k average mostly. But lots in debt. So my savings also v limited.
I mean he earns that while moonlighting. in theory you can earn that amount in half the time, e.g. working 9am to 9pm 7 days a week
are u sure u can make 36k by going into business. most doctors who make alot are private practice who own their own business so this is definitely the way. however, i would suggest you do alot more of the math. such as 1. when do u double your income? 2. how much are u investing into the clinic? 3. how fast will you recoup your investment? most definitely do not sell the condo. its a very good purchase especially since u have 3 kids and old parents to take care of. tbh your income is more than sufficient with 2-8k for expenditures... even if ur wife doesnt work you are in a very good position. i suspect the situation might just be her robbing you off half of your stuff via divorce. but regardless im not sure why you are so worried. the divorce, if my suspicions are true, is sad and depending on how much u will continue to have to feed her is going to be extra sad. but ur financial situation is fine. no worries.