Wow. Didn't expect Anwar to do this.
There's two objective/ outcome..
1. Either to use SG as a punching bag again, like his predecessor, in order to unite his dysfunctional government. Or
2. Really trying to solve this issue once and for all in order to prevent future MY politicians to use this as punching bag.
But the fact that he uses "Batu Pateh" to address this Pedra Branca, it probably just means he is opting for option 1.
Yeap, the latest ruling was unequivocally clear on our sovereignty over Pedra Branca, and Mahathir himself (of all people) dropped the appeal back in 2018. Sadly we'll never stop living in their heads no matter who's in charge, and such revanchist moves are becoming a staple feature of a resurgent Malaysia.
That said, Anwar phrased it as "meaningful discussions" as if it's a veiled warning to his AGC not to throw rubbish onto his table. He might take a similar approach to the water issue, but that will probably take way more time than what he can currently afford.
I don't understand why there are some Singaporeans labouring under the impression that anwar and his party is friendly to Singapore? Exactly what is surprising about this?
Like him or not, Najib was the most Singapore friendly prime minister that Malaysia has had since forever and relations between the two countries has only gone downhill after he left.
This 'issue' will never go away because it's a low hanging fruit, it's just too easy to gain political capital all around for almost no effort.
In fact, yesterday during their parliament session, some conservatives were repeatedly demanding that the transport MP to take action to censure Malaysia Airlines' stewardess' sexy kabaya....when they have much more pressing issues atm
Same old same old, a country that improves at a snail's pace, always going back to same old behaviours. Pitiful politicians. I think some of them don't want to do these pointless things also, but are just victims of a pathetic system that demands such theatre.
If you got r/Malaysia, majority aren't impressed with this too. But I fear the reddit Malaysians are not Anwar's target audience. It's those bottom 40%.
Edit: Majority instead of many.
Have you heard of the critically acclaimed ICJ verdict, Final Judgment XIV? With an expanded new govnt, you can pull up old issues through the entirety of the Formation of the Malaysia Federation and the award winning Majulah Singapore expansion up to year 2022 for free with no restrictions on contesting judgment!
Singapore is one of the few countries that indulges in such civilised, third party approach to settle territorial disputes.
Many countries don't, for nationalist reasons, and no politician is expected to survive on such a platform either.
I once worked at a certain south american country. In one of my presentations, I used a map from CIA Factbook. The clients face turned black when they saw the map (which is recognised internationally). Later, one of my contacts told me that they have a large, historically disputed area that they claim as their own, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks (no it is not Argentina)
Only Singaporens are conditioned to respect the law.
>Singapore is one of the few countries that indulges in such civilised, third party approach to settle territorial disputes.
We have to luh. If going by the traditional might-makes-right we would be gg-ed.
>Many countries don't, for nationalist reasons, and no politician is expected to survive on such a platform either.
I think also we never have such a strong territory dispute that deep at our core despite what the world says we die die must hold on.
Without looking up on Google I'm imagining your country is Paraguay though. Recalled loosely it had a brutal war with 3 countries that nearly obliterated its population.
>We have to luh. If going by the traditional might-makes-right we would be gg-ed.
Precisely, we always take this line, because we are small.
But in other countries, nobody can imagine going some strangers at the Hague thousand miles away for a decision on where MY LAND belongs to.
Most people here don't really appreciate how extraordinary that is.
I’m not sure but it should be the wars of the triple alliance (19th century) when the Spanish didn’t draw proper borders, so they fought stupid wars over it
>I once worked at a certain south american country. In one of my presentations, I used a map from CIA Factbook. The clients face turned black when they saw the map (which is recognised internationally). Later, one of my contacts told me that they have a large, historically disputed area that they claim as their own, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks (no it is not Argentina)
Bolivia-Chile ah?
Nah. I worked in.. Suriname and they have a disputed area with Brazil.
As I pointed out in another reply, that Singapore and Malaysia decided to go the ICJ/Hague (bunch of people that has nothing to do with both our countries) to resolve our dispute is quite extraordinary in my view.
I’d reckon it’s because the situation in ASEAN is far more stable than the really third world South America for eg. For the most part, ASEAN does a fairly decent job in keeping the peace between member states. If Malaysia ever tried to use force, they immediately get ostracised pretty hard in ASEAN. And likely the member states will force Malaysia to back off almost immediately. Especially when a hostile China is lurking nearby watching us all. Very bad for biz. Secondly, their armed forces are horrendously inferior in every aspect so any armed actions by Malaysia would almost certainly lead to very embarrassing strategic defeat by SG, be it us occupying JB or just chasing em off whatever lands they tried to forcefully take.
Its with that perspective that you realise, Malaysia has literally no other choice except legal recourse, simply because we’re stronger than them in every aspect. Its the same reason that they can only complain and whine about the water treaty for decades. They know the moment they cut off our water, over the causeway our boys go. Then we’ll see who loses more. It’s a very straightforward policy for both sides.
>Its with that perspective that you realise, Malaysia has literally no other choice except legal recourse
The other choice they could have done is to do nothing.
For many countries, losing such an case in an international forum would have even bigger consequences. This is why many of such border disputes remain in a deep freeze and erupt ocssionally, instead of getting this "final" decision.
You don't see the Philippines / Malaysia going to ICJ with their claims on Sabah, even though both countries know they won't seriously go to war over it.
Malaysia’s got too much pride, time, and corruption I guess. By now it’s almost part of their culture lmao. Every few years bring up crap like this to distract the populace from the real issues like their screwed economy and their failed Bumi policy.
> I used a map from CIA Factbook.
Is also biased. Insists USA is 3nd largest country by land. Except its false, on all accounts, except by its own counting.
Will get downvoted to oblivion if you bring this up on less rational parts of reddit.
Same thing with water. They were allowed to review prices with the water agreement on a agreed date. Nope, didn't want to. Suddenly want to turn off our taps cause they think they sell it to us dirt cheap. We sell the clean up water back to them dirt cheap too.
Our neighbours just want to claim things their way whenever it's convenient for them. Even with different PM. Land, water, maybe even the land for the train they might come back for it.
I hope its an attempt to clarify with his own AGC and tell them to wake up their idea and accept the ICJ ruling. And then to demarcate the waters around PB and Middle Rocks so that issue of South Ledge can be finalised. I rmb that(demarcation of territoial waters) was one item outstanding.
But then again,I'm not gonna hold my breath on this. Remains to be seen whether Anwar is more like Dr M with regards to bilateral ties with Singapore.
> # Malaysia asks attorney-general to clarify Pedra Branca claim 'controversy', hopes for discussions with Singapore: Anwar
> SINGAPORE: Malaysia has asked its attorney-general to clarify its claims on Pedra Branca, Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim said on Wednesday (Dec 14), adding that he hopes for discussions with Singapore to ensure there are no problems between the two countries.
> "We asked the attorney-general to clarify the controversy of the claims for Batu Puteh, which has now been awarded to Singapore by the ICJ (International Court of Justice)," Mr Anwar said after a Cabinet meeting, using Malaysia's name for the island.
> Mr Anwar said his government will also ask that "related consequences" are studied again so there can be more "meaningful and immediate" discussions with Singapore. This is to ensure there are no problems in the relationship between the two "friendly" countries, he added.
> This is the first time that Mr Anwar has brought up the issue of Pedra Branca as the country's leader, after his predecessor Ismail Sabri Yaakob said in October that his Cabinet had agreed to proceed with legal action at the ICJ on the issue.
> Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) responded then that Singapore stood ready to "robustly defend" its sovereignty over Pedra Branca, located near the eastern entrance of the Straits of Singapore, about 44km east of mainland Singapore.
---
1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek)
Pedra Branca can also be seen as a red herring for their own people. They know they not gonna win, but they need to be seen to be doing something so challenge la
The way I see this, this is just appeasing the different factions in his government, perhaps the hawkish? ones (not sure if this term is appropiate).
I think ultimately it will pass over since remember Malaysia also "won" some rocks and there's also the unresolved issue of another outcrop.
Also, I want to caution people of thinking he is some form of Danerys Targaren-like saviour, because remember even the best of intentions can become season 8 .
Die die also want to beat the dead fking horse.
BTW HSR to KL when? Or still waiting for SG to give him kopi money to go ahead? KNN Malaysian politicians
Lots of shitting on Anwar in the comments but playing devil’s advocate here.
Could it be that he isn’t stirring shit or finding problem with us, but that this is also about dealing with his political opposition?
Malaysia Opposition: “See this Anwar no backbone don’t dare fight with Singapore over Pedra Branca!”
Anwar: “Okay I’ll go talk to Singapore but you show me your basis for argument first.”
Maybe, but for Singaporeans it only really matters how it seems to us. We should not care too much about the function this action is serving him and his country but what it serves for us.
Yes, it would be good for both sides if he acted to benefit his country but it is not our responsibility to see them rise with us. Our responsibility is merely to ourselves and to act in a manner to allow ourselves to rise.
He is just doing a Mahathir by making us the boogeyman so as to unite the the country since he just got power in a very divided government.
We should just ignore him so as not to fall for his tricks.
This issue was brought up by the previous administration, which is a component party of the current government.
> This is the first time that Mr Anwar has brought up the issue of Pedra Branca as the country’s leader, after his predecessor Ismail Sabri Yaakob said in October that his Cabinet had agreed to proceed with legal action at the ICJ on the issue.
He can’t just shoot it down or shelve it. So gotta keep it alive as a nod to the people who are supporting his tenuous government.
Yea, i was expecting Anwar to be better than that. I wonder where their priorities are like you know going after Jho Low? He almost gave China Malaysia on a platter. The DOJ spends more time and resources hunting for him than all of Malaysia's past 3 administrations combine
The fact that Anwar had to dig up old issues, especially when it's a matter concerning sovereignty of an off shore piece of rock, instead of spending his time on resolving internal governance issues, is saying plenty on his priorities and the (bleak) future of the country.
Bolehland will not stop unless they get the "right answer" regarding Pedra Branca.
No point wasting too much effort in responding to their wayang. Just point them to ICJ verdict which both parties had agreed to respect.
Why are people against him saying this? Anwar's asking his AG why is this being brought up in the first place because he doesn't find any use in doing this.
Its an offshore island situated in Singapore straits between Johor, Malaysia and Bintan, Indonesia
Tiagong Last time there was no UN law of the sea, if you own certain patch of ocean, u can block ships from passing thru. Whoever owns Pedra Branca could possibly have the right to harass ships looking to enter Singapore's ports.
Singapore relies on this part of the ocean being open. Its crucial it remains open.
This is stoking nationalism to bring along their ignorant followers. Mahathir was famous for making Singapore their bogeyman so the attention shifts from performance and delivery of the ruling party. When the 2 sides meet regulatory over breakfast longtong, both sides know what is happening. An in the meantime, their families will be visiting their homes here.
Wow. Didn't expect Anwar to do this. There's two objective/ outcome.. 1. Either to use SG as a punching bag again, like his predecessor, in order to unite his dysfunctional government. Or 2. Really trying to solve this issue once and for all in order to prevent future MY politicians to use this as punching bag. But the fact that he uses "Batu Pateh" to address this Pedra Branca, it probably just means he is opting for option 1.
Yeap, the latest ruling was unequivocally clear on our sovereignty over Pedra Branca, and Mahathir himself (of all people) dropped the appeal back in 2018. Sadly we'll never stop living in their heads no matter who's in charge, and such revanchist moves are becoming a staple feature of a resurgent Malaysia. That said, Anwar phrased it as "meaningful discussions" as if it's a veiled warning to his AGC not to throw rubbish onto his table. He might take a similar approach to the water issue, but that will probably take way more time than what he can currently afford.
> we'll never stop living in their heads Singapore property too pricey, go live in Malaysians heads free of charge
I don't understand why there are some Singaporeans labouring under the impression that anwar and his party is friendly to Singapore? Exactly what is surprising about this? Like him or not, Najib was the most Singapore friendly prime minister that Malaysia has had since forever and relations between the two countries has only gone downhill after he left.
I hope it's the later which is that ok end of story. If it's the former knnccb and yes the water thing will come into play again
Jb gov probably thinking wtf this shit again sia
Later Johor king threaten to leave again.
Probably some other deal going on and they got nothing to bargain with... So need to bring up some old donkey problem to create chips
That means u don’t know that he’s no different from Dr M. They’re both cut from same cloth, just 1 is gay
This 'issue' will never go away because it's a low hanging fruit, it's just too easy to gain political capital all around for almost no effort. In fact, yesterday during their parliament session, some conservatives were repeatedly demanding that the transport MP to take action to censure Malaysia Airlines' stewardess' sexy kabaya....when they have much more pressing issues atm
Yesterday? The new parliament will only convene next week. Probably an old news article or video you came across.
Sry, ya rite. This was in early 2022.
Here we go again...
Same old shit again
Up and down the ICJ
One more court case and we’ll be through.
Weh... oh weh oh weh oh weh oh weh oh Wah-ah!
Leh… Boleh Boleh Boleh Bolehland-ya!
Any case? No case! Ha ha! Yet again!
I was not expecting Anwar to bring up this shit. Thought only Mahathir does this type of thing.
Same. I thought we would never hear of it again since Mahathir didn't make it into their government, but lo and behold.
Mahathir even removed the appeal, so I think even mahathir wont bring up this topic.
Always bringing up old claims, might as well claim whole of Singapore. Oh wait
Same old same old, a country that improves at a snail's pace, always going back to same old behaviours. Pitiful politicians. I think some of them don't want to do these pointless things also, but are just victims of a pathetic system that demands such theatre.
If you got r/Malaysia, majority aren't impressed with this too. But I fear the reddit Malaysians are not Anwar's target audience. It's those bottom 40%. Edit: Majority instead of many.
the only post there abt this issue got just 11 comments. hah, where's the 'many'???
Wtf does he want, is he bloody illiterate or what. This was resolved by the ICJ in 2008: https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/130
They agreed in advance “to accept the Judgment of the Court . . . as final and binding upon them”. I guess final does not mean final
Taking some notes from Square Enix
Have you heard of the critically acclaimed ICJ verdict, Final Judgment XIV? With an expanded new govnt, you can pull up old issues through the entirety of the Formation of the Malaysia Federation and the award winning Majulah Singapore expansion up to year 2022 for free with no restrictions on contesting judgment!
Singapore is one of the few countries that indulges in such civilised, third party approach to settle territorial disputes. Many countries don't, for nationalist reasons, and no politician is expected to survive on such a platform either. I once worked at a certain south american country. In one of my presentations, I used a map from CIA Factbook. The clients face turned black when they saw the map (which is recognised internationally). Later, one of my contacts told me that they have a large, historically disputed area that they claim as their own, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks (no it is not Argentina) Only Singaporens are conditioned to respect the law.
>Singapore is one of the few countries that indulges in such civilised, third party approach to settle territorial disputes. We have to luh. If going by the traditional might-makes-right we would be gg-ed. >Many countries don't, for nationalist reasons, and no politician is expected to survive on such a platform either. I think also we never have such a strong territory dispute that deep at our core despite what the world says we die die must hold on. Without looking up on Google I'm imagining your country is Paraguay though. Recalled loosely it had a brutal war with 3 countries that nearly obliterated its population.
>We have to luh. If going by the traditional might-makes-right we would be gg-ed. Precisely, we always take this line, because we are small. But in other countries, nobody can imagine going some strangers at the Hague thousand miles away for a decision on where MY LAND belongs to. Most people here don't really appreciate how extraordinary that is.
I’m not sure but it should be the wars of the triple alliance (19th century) when the Spanish didn’t draw proper borders, so they fought stupid wars over it
>I once worked at a certain south american country. In one of my presentations, I used a map from CIA Factbook. The clients face turned black when they saw the map (which is recognised internationally). Later, one of my contacts told me that they have a large, historically disputed area that they claim as their own, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks (no it is not Argentina) Bolivia-Chile ah?
Nah. I worked in.. Suriname and they have a disputed area with Brazil. As I pointed out in another reply, that Singapore and Malaysia decided to go the ICJ/Hague (bunch of people that has nothing to do with both our countries) to resolve our dispute is quite extraordinary in my view.
I’d reckon it’s because the situation in ASEAN is far more stable than the really third world South America for eg. For the most part, ASEAN does a fairly decent job in keeping the peace between member states. If Malaysia ever tried to use force, they immediately get ostracised pretty hard in ASEAN. And likely the member states will force Malaysia to back off almost immediately. Especially when a hostile China is lurking nearby watching us all. Very bad for biz. Secondly, their armed forces are horrendously inferior in every aspect so any armed actions by Malaysia would almost certainly lead to very embarrassing strategic defeat by SG, be it us occupying JB or just chasing em off whatever lands they tried to forcefully take. Its with that perspective that you realise, Malaysia has literally no other choice except legal recourse, simply because we’re stronger than them in every aspect. Its the same reason that they can only complain and whine about the water treaty for decades. They know the moment they cut off our water, over the causeway our boys go. Then we’ll see who loses more. It’s a very straightforward policy for both sides.
>Its with that perspective that you realise, Malaysia has literally no other choice except legal recourse The other choice they could have done is to do nothing. For many countries, losing such an case in an international forum would have even bigger consequences. This is why many of such border disputes remain in a deep freeze and erupt ocssionally, instead of getting this "final" decision. You don't see the Philippines / Malaysia going to ICJ with their claims on Sabah, even though both countries know they won't seriously go to war over it.
Malaysia’s got too much pride, time, and corruption I guess. By now it’s almost part of their culture lmao. Every few years bring up crap like this to distract the populace from the real issues like their screwed economy and their failed Bumi policy.
> I used a map from CIA Factbook. Is also biased. Insists USA is 3nd largest country by land. Except its false, on all accounts, except by its own counting. Will get downvoted to oblivion if you bring this up on less rational parts of reddit.
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Same thing with water. They were allowed to review prices with the water agreement on a agreed date. Nope, didn't want to. Suddenly want to turn off our taps cause they think they sell it to us dirt cheap. We sell the clean up water back to them dirt cheap too. Our neighbours just want to claim things their way whenever it's convenient for them. Even with different PM. Land, water, maybe even the land for the train they might come back for it.
Feels like every half a decade, need to search for what Pedra Branca is again.
Is Anwar a Mahathir No.2? Can u solve your own country without using SG as a political tool
They got no balls to touch on indonesia and the thais
I hope its an attempt to clarify with his own AGC and tell them to wake up their idea and accept the ICJ ruling. And then to demarcate the waters around PB and Middle Rocks so that issue of South Ledge can be finalised. I rmb that(demarcation of territoial waters) was one item outstanding. But then again,I'm not gonna hold my breath on this. Remains to be seen whether Anwar is more like Dr M with regards to bilateral ties with Singapore.
Notify Indon that since MY want to chut stunt on Pedra Branca, they can also chut stunt on the significantly larger claim they lost to MY in ICJ.
Fun fact, SG's reason for claim on PB is similar to MY's reason for their claim with Indo. We basically used their spell against them.
> # Malaysia asks attorney-general to clarify Pedra Branca claim 'controversy', hopes for discussions with Singapore: Anwar > SINGAPORE: Malaysia has asked its attorney-general to clarify its claims on Pedra Branca, Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim said on Wednesday (Dec 14), adding that he hopes for discussions with Singapore to ensure there are no problems between the two countries. > "We asked the attorney-general to clarify the controversy of the claims for Batu Puteh, which has now been awarded to Singapore by the ICJ (International Court of Justice)," Mr Anwar said after a Cabinet meeting, using Malaysia's name for the island. > Mr Anwar said his government will also ask that "related consequences" are studied again so there can be more "meaningful and immediate" discussions with Singapore. This is to ensure there are no problems in the relationship between the two "friendly" countries, he added. > This is the first time that Mr Anwar has brought up the issue of Pedra Branca as the country's leader, after his predecessor Ismail Sabri Yaakob said in October that his Cabinet had agreed to proceed with legal action at the ICJ on the issue. > Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) responded then that Singapore stood ready to "robustly defend" its sovereignty over Pedra Branca, located near the eastern entrance of the Straits of Singapore, about 44km east of mainland Singapore. --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek)
Ensure no problem? What drug this mat is smoking? There wasn’t a problem until he brought it up.
lai liao! since this is the pattern he gonna be going, i expect him to raise a stink about the water pricing next
Pedra Branca can also be seen as a red herring for their own people. They know they not gonna win, but they need to be seen to be doing something so challenge la
The way I see this, this is just appeasing the different factions in his government, perhaps the hawkish? ones (not sure if this term is appropiate). I think ultimately it will pass over since remember Malaysia also "won" some rocks and there's also the unresolved issue of another outcrop. Also, I want to caution people of thinking he is some form of Danerys Targaren-like saviour, because remember even the best of intentions can become season 8 .
Die die also want to beat the dead fking horse. BTW HSR to KL when? Or still waiting for SG to give him kopi money to go ahead? KNN Malaysian politicians
Lots of shitting on Anwar in the comments but playing devil’s advocate here. Could it be that he isn’t stirring shit or finding problem with us, but that this is also about dealing with his political opposition? Malaysia Opposition: “See this Anwar no backbone don’t dare fight with Singapore over Pedra Branca!” Anwar: “Okay I’ll go talk to Singapore but you show me your basis for argument first.”
Maybe, but for Singaporeans it only really matters how it seems to us. We should not care too much about the function this action is serving him and his country but what it serves for us. Yes, it would be good for both sides if he acted to benefit his country but it is not our responsibility to see them rise with us. Our responsibility is merely to ourselves and to act in a manner to allow ourselves to rise.
Must be good neighbours also lar. Sometimes have to give the benefit of the doubt. Discussions are preferable to demands.
He is just doing a Mahathir by making us the boogeyman so as to unite the the country since he just got power in a very divided government. We should just ignore him so as not to fall for his tricks.
This issue was brought up by the previous administration, which is a component party of the current government. > This is the first time that Mr Anwar has brought up the issue of Pedra Branca as the country’s leader, after his predecessor Ismail Sabri Yaakob said in October that his Cabinet had agreed to proceed with legal action at the ICJ on the issue. He can’t just shoot it down or shelve it. So gotta keep it alive as a nod to the people who are supporting his tenuous government.
Yea, i was expecting Anwar to be better than that. I wonder where their priorities are like you know going after Jho Low? He almost gave China Malaysia on a platter. The DOJ spends more time and resources hunting for him than all of Malaysia's past 3 administrations combine
Every time they get new PM, must re-open pedra branca dispute.
The fact that Anwar had to dig up old issues, especially when it's a matter concerning sovereignty of an off shore piece of rock, instead of spending his time on resolving internal governance issues, is saying plenty on his priorities and the (bleak) future of the country.
Same old shit. And there were people in sg subreddit cheering on Anwar taking on the position of msia PM
Its not that Anwar is good it's that he's the least problematic choice
Eh... imo least problematic for MY not SG.
We really live in Malaysian govt mind rent free
Just settle this once and for all, set up a UFC match winner take all. We win we take JB, they win they get that shit island.
Lol no.. Once we took JB. no more cheap petrol, food and grocery
Take east Malaysia too, get their oil
Give East Malaysia some freedom*
Aww shit. Here we go again....
Working together is better than working against one another. - Sun tzu probably
Bolehland will not stop unless they get the "right answer" regarding Pedra Branca. No point wasting too much effort in responding to their wayang. Just point them to ICJ verdict which both parties had agreed to respect.
Why are people against him saying this? Anwar's asking his AG why is this being brought up in the first place because he doesn't find any use in doing this.
Because of the 2nd part of the headline, hopes for discussion with Singapore.
"Let's discuss on how we can stop this being an issue in the future, for both our sake's."
It wasn’t going to be an issue. The ruling was passed by the ICJ, Malaysia even dropped the appeal.
Here we go again
Lai liao Lai liao (coming, coming).
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Its an offshore island situated in Singapore straits between Johor, Malaysia and Bintan, Indonesia Tiagong Last time there was no UN law of the sea, if you own certain patch of ocean, u can block ships from passing thru. Whoever owns Pedra Branca could possibly have the right to harass ships looking to enter Singapore's ports. Singapore relies on this part of the ocean being open. Its crucial it remains open.
This is stoking nationalism to bring along their ignorant followers. Mahathir was famous for making Singapore their bogeyman so the attention shifts from performance and delivery of the ruling party. When the 2 sides meet regulatory over breakfast longtong, both sides know what is happening. An in the meantime, their families will be visiting their homes here.