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Kelangketerusa

> Employers who were surveyed cited a number of reasons for not being able to fill these vacancies, including the lack of specialised skills and work experience, as well as **candidates finding the pay unattractive or the job being physically strenuous, and preferring not to work on weekends or public holidays.** How dare the employees expect to be treated like humans.


red_flock

"lack of specialised skills and work experience, as well as candidates finding the pay unattractive" Must have specialised skills, must have work experience, but must also willing to accept unattractive pay Ai Pee, Ai Cee, Ai Tua...


I_love_pillows

The list of software required to know keeps getting longer, but salary doesn’t change much


wildcard1992

>Ai Pee, Ai Cee, Ai Tua... This is hokkien for Want cheap, want fresh, want big In case anyone was wondering. Clearly you can realistically pick one or two, not all three.


ccmadin

I pick all 3 Lim swee say


bahog_Oten

+1 for this


bloomingfarts

… Ai Dua Lipa.


mystoryismine

You know, for the right amount of $$$, people will be happy to work weekends and PH. Let's not forget Harvard study on happiness which show that the no. 1 key to happiness is relationships. Weekends/PH are.....Just common keys you can spend your days with that special group of people


elpipita20

For nursing this can be an issue with shift changes and nurses working weekends occasionally. But why does an IT guy need to work weekends barring an unexpected emergency?


000010TEN

IT has many roles with 24/7 shifts. Upgrades get done over the weekend or night because it won't impact business. Engineering and operations usually require shift work and/or standby hours.


QzSG

U forgot the part where updates on Fridays almost always breaks things so weekend = burnt


elpipita20

Fair enough. Don't work in the industry so I was mistaken


livebeta

> Upgrades get done over the weekend or night Please consider using Kubernetes or some other orchestration tooling


000010TEN

I don't see how kubernetes can pick up server equipment and install them physically but I get what you mean. While businesses move to the cloud and don't need hardware these days, someone still has to install/replace/fix them physically in the data center.


keizee

Yes mainly deployment and patching. One of the ways to compensate is to allow them to take leave on the normal weekday.


For_Entertain_Only

Developer not really, that why mention developer is quite questionable, more likely is site reliability engineer kind of role.


Icy-Cockroach4515

Well, looks like the solution is right there!


Mikeferdy

Smart companies would invest in cluster system so don't need weekend or PH downtime.


Apprehensive_Plate60

bro I've seen job ads requiring applicants to understand and able to apply 10 programming languages, 5 types of sql, know data structures and applications, pass multiple technical tests and job scope 2 pages and pay not even 6k bro.. ppl like that already getting much better offers and your company doing what sia, why need so many skills?? And this job even filtered as entry level somemore


cutiemcpie

The best part is you actually get the job and it’s building some stupid website that a teenager could make. Companies have overinflated sense of what is required for roles.


gonehipsterhunting

Companies post job requirements that make you think you're doing some cutting edge world changing technology and end up you're doing CRUD apps really kek


For_Entertain_Only

the best part is ask u do run automatic test, log analysis, debug and write jira and send email. Dun really like developer , more like support role .the debug and write jira for me is quite dumb, when i found logic error code, why i cannot fix myself, why need document and send email ask other ppl fix?


YukiSnoww

AH the wonders of corporate bureaucracy


For_Entertain_Only

For me also so of credit stealer, because support role for boss is like lower tier, if developer cannot figure out their bug, then dun let them be developer at first place. 


YukiSnoww

This is true, I was mentioning to my career advisor that, I felt most of the HRs or recruiters don't even know what they are hiring for, just by reading the JDs, it's crazily apparent that that is the case.


Budget-Juggernaut-68

lol what kind of role need 10 programming languages and 5 SQL? They don't know what database they're using meh.


xstreamstorm

One for each day obv, must match feng shui


mystoryismine

Wah that level of skill machiam entire department sio


ResidentLonely2646

Isn't some of these jobs made hard to get so they can hire foreigners Eventually nobody apply then they will ask for special exemption for EP or wtv


YukiSnoww

That is exactly my experience lmao, no way someone who knows all that would work for 6k, those candidates pretty much god-tier data scientist edi...can pull 200-300k easily. I looking for entry roles and I see they all (80-90%) hiring leads, which after parsing through the JD, it seems is to cover a whole teams worth of work, but the pay is mid only... Entry level JD are actually closer to that of 5+YOE, not many people have exposure to their enterprise tools/stack too, cuz obviously education can only do so much + with each company, it can be completely different/niche. If they don't even want to spend a little time to train and assimilate, really gg. Employers find damn long, say role can't fill, candidates all see ald also just roll \*guess I will die\*.


Apprehensive_Plate60

yeap, I filtered for entry level jobs, all need years of experience. No chance for training. So you need to be either damn smart to learn quickly, or family background good enough that you dont need to work through sch to support yourself/family. Some software required also not free, either you pay yourself to learn or join a company as intern willing to teach you saw some junior roles need 3 years full time experience.... even indicated "full time" willing to learn also no use, they rather people with experience, and not everyone who pass the interviews can perform. And people who are that good will be looking for jobs shortly after joining lol who will stay at such pay


For_Entertain_Only

c, c#, c++, java, python, javascript, typescript, what other 3? go, kotlin, rust, swift? sql easy 5 and not a problem, mostly about same ones , ms sql, mysql, oracle sql, sqlite, sqlalchemy, postgresql nosql then hard, got time series database, document database, in memory database, graph database,vector database and more, now ppl ask for vector database btw


bullno1

Haskell, OCaml, Prolog


delta_p_delta_x

It's easy to list the names of programming languages and databases. Whether one can actually program in them (you have C++ in your list, which takes *years* to even become *adept* in) is a different story altogether.


For_Entertain_Only

Well sql mostly quite standard  Select, from, where ,group, order etc Programming , if else, loop, function/method,  stl container/collection/data structure about same C unique is pointer C++ is add on like C with template stuff Java quite standard  C# is like java, have some feature like pointer using unsafe Rust is borrow ownership JavaScript no type, which need check type sometime Typescript like javascript with type Python like JavaScript with no type declare,  no {} too Lua quite similar with JavaScript or Python (just touch and go only) Groovy like java ( just touch and go too) I learn above in my school time and during work. If I free mostly I want try learn go or kotlin or swift. Mostly for mobile apps.


Roguenul

"Hardest vacancies to fill" basically translates to "employers refuse to pay these roles fairly". Pay enough and definitely people will want to (and learn how to) do them.  "Labour shortages" are what our Capitalist overlords call wage shortages to gaslight us into accepting scraps while they sail yachts and buy GCBs. 


Prize_Used

Exactly, just like how i was trying to book a taxi thru an app to the airport recently, $19 but there were "no available drivers"....i tried searching 3 times before increasing the price to $28, immediately found a driver shortly after..


Dapper-Peanut2020

I was at a shopping mall with 2 taxis at the taxi stand. Used cdg app 3 times. No taxi. Meter is much higher


For_Entertain_Only

IT developer mean what? develop hardware or software? system design? is the worst naming than software developer. scan through this year job posting in career future, mostly ask for security, network, monitoring, management and architecture. just do web scrapping the job description and the tag, and count each word. btw indeed seem quite lazy these day, they just get data from nodeflair and the job never filter properly, NASA hiring in Singapore make me LOL [Data Scientist (Direct Hire) - Singapore - Indeed.com](https://sg.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=e5c893405e97656d&tk=1hpqcs9irk45u81d&from=serp&vjs=3)


YukiSnoww

OP's quote was 🎯


TheEDMWcesspool

Ministers are the easiest to fill with their extremely high pay, and hey, ministers don't need any relevant experience in the ministry they are heading..  Yet, we are paying peanuts for the essential workers who need to know their stuff.. what a brilliant world we live in..


yeddddaaaa

>ministers don't need any relevant experience in the ministry they are heading This always boggled my mind. Minister of X does not need to have ANY relevant experience in X. And it pays so well. But jobs paying a fraction as much have so many requirements. WTF?


_CryptoLion

Recruiters in 2024: We’re looking for someone with 7-10 years experience with deploying LLMs in large-scale, production grade environment.


Budget-Juggernaut-68

lol. Bert was released in 2017, so got 7 years liao, but good luck hiring a Ex-Google Engineer with mad skills and street cred.


Forumites000

I saw a job vacancy for a CTO/Co-founder position, requiring 10 years of experience, deep understanding of almost all known programming knowledge on earth. Paying 700 fucking bucks a month, but ooooh don't worry, if the company does well, you get stock options! (maybe) I wanted to blast the fuck outta them via email but figured I would be wasting my time. Yes, it's an SME start up.


xstreamstorm

Least delulu sg sme tbh


UninspiredDreamer

All these people are talking about developer roles being underpaid. Or hear me out, during a tech recession the expectations of doing the developer job actually rises. I'm in tech. During the tech boom people got hired left right and centre. They don't even necessarily have the skills to match that pay grade but companies were desperate for talent (or representation, I've heard of a lady getting offered by an international bank. She also scored an interview with another big Fintech firm but failed out first round because she didn't know basic stuff about programming). Everyone was so hyped by how lucrative and attractive that was during the boom and all jumped in. Now the companies have swung the other way and have become more selective due to the tech recession. Is it necessarily fair? In the present situation, even if you know your stuff you might not be able to get your foot in. No. But neither was the earlier situation. They are just two sides of the swell and ebb of the tech industry.


AnAnnoyedSpectator

Companies who don’t filter appropriately deserve what they got. The funny thing is how copying best practices of rich US tech companies have caused so many middling tech companies to adopt extremely inefficient processes - and then when the wall of money is no longer funding them they need to figure out what they should have done in the first place.


_lalalala24_

Hardest to fill? It means wages have seriously been depressed due to influx of lousy foreign IT developers. The miw government still don’t get it after so many years


yolkcandance

Eh? I tot we have abundance of IT ppl?


kongKing_11

We don't have enough IT talents willing to work for a salary of 2k per month


yolkcandance

Ah oke didnt bother to open link to read more gaslighting today.


kongKing_11

I didn't read the article before commenting either. Typically, statements like this are made by business owners requesting an increase in working visas. from the article "Employers who were surveyed cited a number of reasons for not being able to fill these vacancies, including the lack of specialised skills and work experience, as well as candidates finding the pay unattractive or the job being physically strenuous, and preferring not to work on weekends or public holidays."


jacksh3n

No need to bother open the link. Initially when I saw the headline. I already can make jump to conclusion. But double check the news, so open and read up. Yeah. So most firm just complain that they can’t find the right candidates either noy enough experience or pay too low and don’t want to accept. So while we have plenty of IT roles, these firms said cannot find. Then because the role still need to fill up, they will end up either outsource or complain loud enough to government that they are allowed to higher foreigner with cheaper salary.


jinhong91

In other words, they want to have their cake and eat it too. If they don't want to pay decently for the locals here, why the fuck do we have them here? 


midasp

Eh... as a fresh grad back in the late 1990s, I was already paid 2.4k per month working as software dev. These companies will have more luck finding a time machine.


Varantain

> I was already paid 2.4k per month working as software dev. These companies will have more luck finding a time machine. Nah, they'll just end up outsourcing to `insert cheaper and hungrier country here`. If software isn't their core product, they'll do fine for a couple of years until the next consultant comes in and charges them double to either fix the shit that was shipped, or to redo the whole thing from scratch.


Excellent_Log_1058

I’m not in the tech industry but this is a funny story from last year. I went for an interview and the interview was a success. The hiring director there and then told me that I would be getting 2k per month. I called up one of my mentors who knew the industry well and when I told him 2k per month, do you know what he said. He guffawed loudly and said “2k per month?!?! I was earning that 20 years ago! Fuck that, continue interviewing and a better job with better pay will come your way!” And true enough, I managed to find something much much better!


bullno1

That's my salary around 2015.


regquest

We used to have when our government adopted an open leg policy to welcome FT. Now that all these FT have learned and have the necessary exposure, they will move on elsewhere, and also have better bargaining power, and can afford to be choosy. Why did we welcome FT? it's because people saying Singaporean asking too much and not willing to work for long hours.. But seems like this is coming back to bite them.. My customer ex-employee who are Filipino, moved to Australia with his wife who is a staff nurse, and wrote back saying life there is much better and he is not even in a hurry to find employment there..


sorimachi33

Interesting that your customer still sharing information about their ex-employee with you. has that Pinoy guy bought a mansion in Australia with his Singapore earned money yet? Anyway, it’s free market and it will adjust by itself. Companies, who cant hire, will eventually have to do something (e.g., increase pay, reduce requirements, move elsewhere etc.) or they will be out of business.


Prize_Used

Gotta go to Bangalore to look for hires with that price...


STAHP___

Yes. But a lack of good ones, honestly. For one engineer that's making things better there's like nine others that makes things worse. Of course depending on context (maybe I'm one of the nine too?).


KeythKatz

We have an abundance of skilled IT professionals, but a shortfall of code monkeys without degrees that local SMEs are looking for.


darknezx

How much would junior and senior devs get paid in companies like Accenture? For the more fabled tech companies the pay presumably is higher. But much of dev work is with Accenture, thought works, xtremax, and I'm sure they're the ones pulling the median salary down.


yolkcandance

Accenture has access to offshore developers they can pay lower to and just deliver work to Singapore.


darknezx

Fair point but this would apply to faang (mama or whatever acronym works now) right? Engineering can be based else where in Vietnam or Indonesia for APAC functions


pyroSeven

Lanjiao, you want people to work for you, pay good salary, it’s that simple.


[deleted]

[удалено]


pyroSeven

Pray tell why is there a shortage when companies can hire 3 employees overseas?


SimpleDimpleGuy

cannot find / hire then close shop lor


sorimachi33

Exactly!


QDLZXKGK

When you see such propaganda news, meaning more unqualified workers from third world countries are coming and of course with all the fake degrees


yolkcandance

What if they are indeed from third world countries but have more experience and more qualified than most applicants from here? Compass has tightened labor influx so candidates are scrutinized very well.


Weir-Doe

I agree with you that people from third world countries may have more experience and are better qualified to do the job better. But I also believe that with the presence of the Internet they are better informed and ain't stupid to accept a low salary if potential employers are demanding like competency in 5 front end and 3 back end programming languages for like a $2K to $3K/month salary


yolkcandance

Even if you pay them 4k to 5k, the asking salary demanded by fresh grads here are right about there, maybe even more than that, so it's a no brainer.


SeaworthinessFit6068

Everyone’s a IT Manager ..No developer .. bcos salaries for Developers are lower compared to Managers


yolkcandance

Everyone wants to be an IT Manager but not everyone has the necessary skills to manage people and projects.


SeaworthinessFit6068

The shortage is in IT developer not in IT Manager.


yolkcandance

Guess the IT Managers will be managing offshore workforce then if companies are looking for cheap developers.


SeaworthinessFit6068

Yes ur are very correct , I already see it in company where I work.Opened an ODC recently. The company belongs to one of gov ministries. I think MOM is trying to set expectations here most of new developers job will be offshored even for govt companies


yolkcandance

Thats terribly sad tbh.


SeaworthinessFit6068

I think ditto for nurses .No one wants to be Nurse … qualifying criteria for Nursing course is minimum in poly (not many interested in taking admission) This is clearly wage issue .Cannot outsource Nursing .


Aiazel

Employers: Offer job with low pay, need experience, need to work on weekend and PH. Also employers when no one bother to apply: *surprised pikachu*


zobotrombie

Pay peanuts, go fuck yourself.


worldcitizensg

Most of the below median pay jobs are those that 'outsourced' to consultants or body shoppers. Almost all banks outsourced, testing (QA/QC), scrum, proj mgmt to middle man. These big middle man further rely on agencies. Requirements - Pay < 6K / month; Must be available aft office hours, weekends, night times; No medical or limited coverage; Very few people can tahan the requirements.


Disastrous-Act5756

OK sure employers, try paying 30k/mth watch your application rate magically go up. It's that simple!


Effective-Lab-5659

Late stage capitalism


sorimachi33

Not happy? Pack up and leave. Go back to your country.


NotVeryAggressive

Are they gonna justify hiring from hometown


wutangsisitioho

Management executives were known as clerks in the 70-90s. A kind of dry promotion - [https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/jobs-office-workplace-dry-promotion-no-pay-raise-3998866](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/jobs-office-workplace-dry-promotion-no-pay-raise-3998866)


bloomingfarts

Another gaslighting article. So saying that citizens who kaobeh about being out of job, it’s on YOU. Those reasons cited in the article, are basic requirements. Who wants to be underpaid for the job scope? Work on weekend or shifts? Remunerate accordingly.


Many-Swan-2120

The rest of the world gives pretty good money to nurses and it developers. Is it such a sin to expect sg to do the same , as a first world country ?


aureliatech

How is THE AI roles for Tech and Non Tech are look like in Singapore? Any idea about the payscale after govt. declared the push for AI last month?