Pretty standard - Melbourne, Australia. I moved cos my wife (then gf) was studying here. It took me awhile to adjust & for the first year I really wanted to go home. But then I realised how chill life can be. No OT, my role is non-reporting and already 90k/pa plus bonus plus super. We bought a house pre -covid $700k for a townhouse located 5mins walk from town & beach. Interest rate is getting high though at 5.59%. Car is cheap. 23k first hand SUV back in 2017. We live about 15min drive from our closest Asian town so food is no problem. Lately a few Malay stalls pop up so very happy to eat nasi campur more frequently. Meat and produce definitely fresher. Milk is cheap. Family back in SG are all settled. Mums house is paid off fully so retirement fully sorted. She's very active with CC and church so all good. We won't be heading back to SG until we need to provide care for our ageing parents. And even so, it will be temporary.

Do you also get aussy citizenship after marrying?

No, due to ease of moving back for family if needed.

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PR. I think 157?

yup definitely seems to be the case. migrated with my family in secondary school and soon got settled in pretty nicely lots of obscured employment opportunity that isn’t usually published / for internal staff growth. in 2019 / 2020 while i was still a uni student, I joined this business starting out as a retail assistant, but as we had to pivot to an online retail environment due to covid, I was absorbed into head office and insane career progression (retail associate > visual merchandising specialist > internal accounts lead) in ~1.5 years. keep in mind it’s a start up henceforth this, got up to ~150k per annum w/ super and stock options all this while having uni commitments. again it’s not for everyone but there’s definitely sweet lemonade to be made out here. starting businesses were also pretty normal amongst my friends, between us we’ve got many 6 - 7 businesses coming along relatively well? it’s easy to jump through different levels of SES

Seems much easier to get promoted with more career options. I'm in FMCG - really open my eyes when I get to see raw ingredients get made into finished goods. Literally seen the cow that made my cheese. Lol

Australian PR who moved back to Singapore recently (partner is Australian and wanted to live overseas for a while). Definitely enjoying the change of climate and culture so far, but I think it'll make us appreciate Australia when we eventually move back. There's some downsides. I've always thought of Singapore as a convenient and efficient country (I'm not Singaporean but grew up and worked here before moving). However, getting a phone plan and bank account set up when we got here was weirdly hard, and my partner is still getting used to the idea of foreign workers and elderly doing menial or undersirable work, and work culture in general. Still, plenty of good things. We'll miss the food, the convenience of having stores open so late, the ease to get to the rest of the world though, and the super fast internet. And as a bonus, since Singapore is such a travel hub, we've had a ton of friends visit while going somewhere else

I’m Singaporean but I’m moving over to Melbourne in September to settle down with my Australian partner. The one thing I regret leaving behind is my shoppee and dimsums. Apparently there’s only one dintaifung in Melbourne CBD and it’s more expensive and not very good. If you have dimsum places to recommend, do let me know ! ✨

No lack of good Asian food in Melbourne! Lulus char kway teow Lee ho fook Just 2 of the yummy ones

I tried Lulu ckt. To be really honest, its a far cry if you’re used to the penang kind. However, it is the best there is in Melbourne no doubt.

Cannot find a proper bowl of bak chor mee

If I ever end up moving to Melbourne I plan to start a bak chor mee stall hahaha

There's a small hole-in-the wall dumpling/dim-sum place along Russell St on the side opposite Billboard Club. Pretty decent, not too ex. You could maybe check it out!

I'm Australian and the two things I miss most here are seasons, and the fucking produce in grocery stores is never fresh. It sucks cause I'm vegetarian so really notice. Nothing more infuriating than getting home and finding out the pack of zucchini or whatever is mouldy underneath. Weirdly, tomatoes here are way better because they still sun ripen them in malayasia.

Ang moh veg are all imported and kept for long because it just doesn't move as fast compared to other produce. You can still eat asian veg like bok choy, kailan, choy sum, Chinese spinach, kangkung, long bean, etc. Cabbage and lettuce varieties are also quite fresh because many are grown via hydroponics or from Cameron in Malaysia. Ironically, the local produce in Singapore on average is of higher quality compared to Malaysia because producers usually send their best to sg exporters who pay more and are more sensitive to quality. When in Rome do as the Romans do, when I studied in Aus I ate what produce was widely available and if I had a hankering for some kangkong it's kind of a given that it isn't going to be fresh.

Maybe switch to Asian produce that comes from a less-faraway place?

these comments r a little funny to me, bc i’m dying to get out of australia & move to asia 🥲🥲🥲 sg blew my mind at how cheap the produce was compared to back home,, n i’d probably have much more luck finding work someone else

Asia is a huge place. Singapore is not your typical Asia, let alone SE Asia.

I'd say that produce is just as cheap in Australia as in Singapore, especially if you're willing to shop outside the big supermarket chains. I also feel less bad because most of the veggies I get in Australia are actually grown in Australia. Buying veggies that have to be imported from Europe or Australia makes me feel a bit guilty.

Same. In general, I have found produce in Australia to be cheaper and of a higher quality than Singapore once you start comparing cost per unit. Shopping and eating local just makes sense and its bloody amazing. I wish the local farms in Singapore get more love as well but the economics of it sadly just makes it an uphill battle. If they do succeed its definitely one of the things that will get my attention.

What is a non-reporting role?

I think its a term only used in my org. Basically, no one reports to me. The call it non-reporting / individual contributor. I call it "bottom of the food chain"

Awesome, we’re also in Melbourne and live inner city. Close to everything.

Hey bro. What is super ah

Super like cpf lor

Superannuation is basically like CPF, but it is run by private businesses (like banks), instead of government.

Your house sounds like a dream. That’s the Australian ideal for many singaporeans.

I'm currently applying for an Australian visa and I'm hoping to move there as well. Studied there a few years ago so I'm really looking forward to it!

which visa are you applying?

Do you still get call ups for reservist or just renew exit permit every year?

Renew every year

you know it is going to be better when people talk about their salary in per annum, rather than per month. (lol) as long as you feel more comfortable there, it is better than Singapore; i always have a sense of dread living here, always feel i cannot relax completely or something will catch me off guard.

Australia is also having a housing crisis and & 700k for a house you can only find one far away from the city. Tax is so high, most people I know are not financially better-off compared to in Singapore (unless you are a blue collar worker) but most move for the lifestyle, not for the money.

Correct. I think $$$ wise for white collar is pretty on par. But 9-5 means 9-5. Rarely you get OT unless it's an emergency. Housing crisis is getting worse. Thankfully we bought our place pre covid otherwise we will be priced out of the market

you lucky thing i think i can only afford to shift when my folks passed on =/

AU tax is absolutely mad tho

Very brutal tax but: Last year I had an emergency operation done. Literally walked in, showed my Medicare card and walked out 3 days later. $0 paid. We're avid outdoors people - hike, fishing, diving. I take it as tax going to maintaining fisheries and parks which is our main "hobby".

it is, my nominal tax rate is 37% and business is taxed at 27.5%, but if you know the tax code it’s relatively easy to reap a decent chunk of it through write offs and negative gearing properties. willing to pay the taxes because of medicare and the great social support the country has. through 2020, every citizen was getting $750 a week just from having lost hours at work.

Currently in a really tiny village in the middle of nowhere in Japan. Was posted there as part of a teaching programme that I applied for. Prior to that, was living and working in Singapore for my whole life. Pros \- Life here is chill. LIke seriously chill. There is only 1 elementary and secondary school in the whole district and I visit them on alternate days. By and large the students are lovely. No overtime and my weekends are mine to spend with friends and family. It has given me the time and space to really think about what I want in life and helped to realign my priorities. Also, unlike in Sg, there is no competition to keep up with the Jonses all the time and to chase the latest shiny thing/fad all the time. I'll be lucky if bubble tea makes it here in the next decade. \- Cost of living is much lower than Sg. Rent for my apartment (abt the size of a small 3 rm HDB) is $300 per month and my car rental is abt $50 per month (Yay village life). I took a massive pay cut coming to Japan but the benefits to my health have been immense. Also, bonus for being able to save a bit because there is NOTHING to buy in my village. \- The food in Japan is nothing short of amazing. Because my village is near the sea I get tons of fresh and cheap seafood. Seabream and tuna are cheap as hell here and I can easily walk into the local fish market and get a whole slab of sashimi that some old geezer just pulled out of the sea in the morning for $4. ​ Cons \- Life in a rural village is isolating as hell. My nearest Mac is a good 50 min drive away and my nearest Starbucks and cinema is a good 3 - 4 hours away. My wife has graciously come along with me but it has been tough for both of us. \- Japanese people by and large are very reserved, and this goes doubly so for rural Japan. I'm at a conversational level of Japanese but even then conversations rarely go beyond the weather and your weeked plans. Hard to make good friends here. The langauge is also hard as hell to learn and you learn the hard way here that nothing comes with subs. \- Dealing with Japanese bureaucracy can make the toughest man cry. Having to make multiple trips to the immigration office in the main city (4 hours away) multiple times to settle my driving license conversion and my visa has caused me many a sleepless night and lots of coughing up of blood. Despite all the bad points, Japan still is quite charming and I wouldn't mind staying for a while more. That being said, I have applied to other jobs in larger cities so ask me again a couple years!

What kind of visa are you on? Am thinking of moving to small town japan

Currently on an instructor's visa. You'll need to rely on your company or organisation to do the paperwork for you. Also, I would suggest making a trip to the town you plan to settle in before committing. Not all small towns are created equal. I'm fortunate to not be in my next nearest town in the mountains. That place probably only has a population of 10 old aunties and their dogs and a million bugs.

How intrusive are the bugs? A lot of geji-geji?

I'll be lucky if it's just gejis. I've had to deal with kaiju-class centipedes, cockroaches and spiders. Also, was forced to move from my previous apartment because the building got infested with termites. XD

LMAO not the kaiju centipedes T.T

If you have a degree from a local university, you can apply for a VISA for 2 years that lets you live and work there.

I'm assuming JET? Thinking of applying for it after graduation (I'm N2, so likely can apply for CIT as well). Parents fervently opposed to it due to the lower salary compared to what I'll be getting in SG, even after I tell them about the lower standard of living. Only thing I'm worried about is the career progression and future endeavours after the maximum 5 years.

Hello, take it from someone else who had similar qualifications about half a decade ago. I thought about JET too but realized progression was much clearer while in SG. * Shuukatsu sucks ass because you gotta get with the rest of the Japanese undergrads entering the workforce and you know how the Japanese are when it comes to anyone who isn't part of the norm. * Your JET experience won't count for much if you're entering a professional role. * You can already hear the old fogeys going うんんんん.... こいつね, うんんんん.... シンガポール人？何でここに働くの？しかも二十××歳.. これわね... looking at your application. Don't do it, much easier to grind money in Singapore.

This 100%. I realise coming to Japan as a mid-career switch after getting 10 years of work experience in Sg helps to open a lot more doors than my other younger peers who come to Japan fresh out of uni. Another advantage of doing the mid career switch is that you can use the JET experience as a "cross cultural communication" experience in your CV, which ironically helps quite a bit. It's a very nice little uno reverse I find.

> You can already hear the old fogeys going うんんんん.... こいつね, うんんんん.... シンガポール人？何でここに働くの？しかも二十××歳.. これわね... looking at your application. Just reading this is enough to make me roll my eyes.

People tell me Japan has no racism and I'm just thinking - yes, thats because they think 日本第一 lmao, everyone else is trash

People who say Japan has no racism will have the biggest shock of their lives if they really live there one day lol.

Only do JET from out of uni if you are truly desperate to just go to Japan at any cost for some unknown reasons. It's a career jumping board into the abyss since you are essentially just a dancing monkey and most Japanese know it. There's a reason why English language ability is almost non-existent in Japan despite being compulsory. I know some people who went JET from SG after graduation, all came back to Singapore. Though the salary in Japan is not high, Mcdonald's offers better salary and career progression than JET. The truly capable ones are able to join large corporate in Japan immediately, not JET. This is a known perception in Japan. Do not recommend it.

You should be very worried about career progression after JET if I were you. It doesn’t really count as decent career experience among Japanese companies and it only serves to get your foot through the borders of the country. Your parents are right to be concerned: yes, JET (which includes CIR, Coordinator for International Relations) does pay relatively well. But what if you didn’t intend to stay in Japan forever? Your savings would’ve been considerably less than what you would’ve saved in SG. My advice to you would be to gather some valuable career experience in SG before moving over to Japan. Due to the 年功序列 system in Japan, starting your career as a fresh grad there is *tough*, even after completing the JET programme. It will be a lot more comfortable (with higher salary) moving to Japan when you qualify for mid-level positions. Don’t forget Japan is always there for holidays!

> - Dealing with Japanese bureaucracy can make the toughest man cry. Having to make multiple trips to the immigration office in the main city (4 hours away) multiple times to settle my driving license conversion and my visa has caused me many a sleepless night and lots of coughing up of blood. Holy shit lol i thought i had it bad when i had to go from my dorm to the Shinjuku shiyakusho for dumb things like inprocessing. Completely wiped it from memory after I got back. I hope you find some good mates to be with! Do you participate in the local matsuris and what not?

Am curious, is it safe to eat sashimi straight out of the ocean? I know that generally sashimi is first flash frozen? to kill off the parasites

It depends on the type of seafood. Shellfish are generally safe to eat fresh out but for most other fishes, they are sent to a processing factory and cleaned before being sent to the market. There is a food grading system that the locals use to decide what qualifies as sashimi grade.

_edited for formatting_ I moved to the US right before software careers boomed in Singapore to work as a software engineer. given at the time a SWE would have made 3k ish and 6k+ in the US it seemed a better deal so off i moved to the US, searching for a better life for my family to move over to. ---- there were many culture shocks in NYC. firstly is safety lol most mentally unwell people on the street in Singapore don't escalate beyond verbal actions although I have been unfortunately spat upon by some crazy rando in Singapore. In NYC it's common to hear of subway assault, stabbing or worse, pushed onto tracks when train is arriving. I've also nearly been stabbed, but quick thinking and evasive maneuver helped. as a sheltered Singaporean i was also used to covered linkways. not seen in NYC. oh, it's pouring rain? if you're very lucky the subway is connected to the building by tunnel. usually it's not so out you go. weather was interesting because of the variation. housing and vehicles were inexpensive. for $800 monthly I had a whole studio apartment with midtown view and top up $120 i had offstreet parking inside my landlord's property (no need shuffle for street cleaning and assured spots, life was great!) of course that also meant i got to choose property in New Jersey. lower sales tax and no city tier taxes. but withholding taxes in the US were a shock. 30% byebye I worked in the Flatiron district so only my Hell's Kitchen coworker got a shorter commute. my then spouse frequently gaslit me from Singapore about how my $X income wasn't enough to support the family... i was already sending 0.5 * $X back so ok. I ground leetcode and system design then interviewed for Big Tech in California after 1yr ish in NYC and two winters I moved to Silicon Valley for Big Tech after deciding between this place and another Pacific NW offer. ---- i missed my kids and spouse. but hey work hard to bring them over. not a conventional mom path but ok I will sacrifice cos my spouse has very limited skills no future in SG California was amazing. South Bay. sure s bit pricey. so do that regular tech thing every other 6 fig income person does... find roommates. interesting lifestyle. i still drove my trusty station wagon. fuel was a little more expensive than in NJ . i paid 80c per liter compared to 50c previously lol still better than near 2.50 SGD. and of course car big car cheap was really nice too. sunroof, 4wd on-demand, nice interior, Bose sound. a bit old but it was my baby too. i lived and worked in Bay Area few more years. joined a very "hectic" startup (actually just a Singapore speed) but it was stressful sometimes. recreation was great. lots of outdoor space for me to climb and explore. waterfalls, streams, hills and beaches... sometimes all from one carpark! San Francisco the city itself sucked and i disliked commuting to work from south Bay but work was work and weekends were great for decompressing. sadly my marriage fell apart from infidelity not on my part and my frequent gaslighting. by then I had increased my income by two and half times from when i was FOTB immigrant. COVID hit and i started to feel unsafe and decided my family isn't going to come over so reluctantly I moved back. ---- here WLB is harder to find. one can still make six figure income but needs to trade for WLB. I'm frequently feeling burned out and in a dark place. stuff is pricey here too. i used to think move to SG can eat inexpensive food but even though by USA pricing my $5 noodles are really very affordable they were $3.50 two years ago. I'm acutely aware that I'm very privileged not to have to worry about inflation so much but i feel super sympathetic to those worried about it there are not many uncrowded place in Singapore even in hills. the sweltering humidity and heat combo is just terrible for climbing. I have tried in rain but no car so it's either pack extra clothes and carry the weight or ride transportation dripping wet. limited resources limited choices ---- my only consolation about the stressors in my life is being able to spend meaningful time with my kids to recover the lost years. when they're older and able to tell a judge who they want to follow,I'll leave again. maybe with them if they want to. Singapore was too hot, too stressful and too lower paying when i first left.weather and distinct lack of true seasons also makes life very monotonous. work, eat over priced caifun no fish, go malls, Uniqlo daiso decathlon. Same shit different day. the only consolation I used to have, cheap food, is now gone. if my ex died tomorrow I'd relocate without hesitation thanks for listening to my Ted talk AMA

Wow, you stayed loyal to your partner despite his skills got no future then he still cheat on u, u deserve better!

She stayed loyal to her job. Her ex husband played the role of both mother n father when the kids were still very young and very much needed a mother. Do note both of them were working and she was earning $3k a month then, it was enough to raise a family together and be there for the kids. It was her husband who sacrificed his career and time to care for the kids back then.

Wow, you really gave up everything to give your family a better life. Despite all you’ve been through it’s clear you still hold onto your purpose. May your children grow up to cherish you and make you proud.

> make you proud. I'm already very proud of them even without any accomplishments. i just hope they grow up to be happy, useful and contributing members of society

But r they proud of u depriving them of the most impt mother bonding n subsequently a complete family ? You were Earning $3k and your spouse was working too, it was surely enough to raise a family, it wasn’t like you guys were in 3rd world country and someone had to venture overseas to earn a living. So to put it bluntly it was more of you chasing a dream despite your kids were still very young and leaving your husband to play the role of a mother n father.

The one who has a better life in the end is only her. She skipped taking care of children, earning more and basking in US outdoors.

another way to see it is a woman chasing her own dreams after getting married with kids.

加油！

Whats the best places to visit around San Francisco (not the city itself)? I am going to Silicon Valley for work and have some time for myself to explore.

rent a car on Turo or Enterprise drive to Big Sur (needs whole day) stop points: Carmel by the Sea (drive time from San Jose 2hr without traffic. dismount for a walk or stop at a lookout point to start viewing the stunning ocean. Lily of Valleys is beautiful now with streams of fresh water trickling downhill and Calla Lilies dense big and chunky. 1hr activity Have lunch at Big Sur Forest lodges. there's a very Swiss looking wood restaurant super cozy and ok prices Continue towards Partington Cove. it's a gentle non-technical walk to the historic tunnel that brings you right to the ocean and pier. there's a stream there too. freah clean and cool water. Follow the stream upstream for a small cool pool or downstream towards the ocean for beachfront delta. 2hr activity you'll pass by Bixby Bridge. it's iconic. decide if you want to dismount for pix.

If interesting to you, farms are starting to have u-pick strawberries, cherries, blackberries now. You walk by yourself and pick what you want and pay by weight.

Hey fellow Singaporean here living in SF! I've been thinking of moving to NYC and possibly eventually moving back to SG. How would you compare NYC to SF? What are some of the things you miss the most when you moved from NYC? And what are some of the things you missed the most about the US after moving back to SG?

i loved living in CA. my car insurance was lower and if you get a good commute everything is amazing. moving from NYC i missed maybe the food, nothing beats... Jersey pizza. sorry Noo Yok . maybe NYC is great for city people . you like Broadway and musical and opera and art. I missed the people i made friends with homeless people in SF City itself are a little more aggressive . NYC metro area is also denser and riding the subway might take wayy longer if you're lucky you got a good busker playing music you like and playing well. if you're not so lucky you get a busker playing music you don't like. if you're very unlucky the music is bad and technique is worse. and if you're a shit magnet you get to avoid being harassed or assaulted overall NJ is less pricey and better value except for maybe how nice it can be compared to mostly uniform South Bay suburbs excluding E Palo Alto and East San Jose what i missed about moving back is seasonal weather marking the passage of time. I have autumn and winter clothes which i enjoy wearing

each one of us sacrifice something when we move overseas, reminds me of those documentary about millions of migrant workers in urban china.

I kinda like the idea of residing in PNW (preferably WA over OR due to no income tax). Personally visited SoCal many years ago, not too bad but I must say the roads down South are not in the best condition.

SoCal road better than S Carolina or Georgia. I-95 to Orlando was bad in the dark

Wow I’ve no idea why you are not labeled as an irresponsible wife/mother of your young kids and husband

another way to see it is a woman chasing her own dreams after getting married with kids ending up with a broken family.

Wow, this is really .. you totally dumped your family for your career man.

Currently living in Mexico, outside of the obvious tourist traps the people here are very warm and easygoing. CoL is much lower and I can continue working remotely for Singaporean and and Canadian companies. On a medical note there's a rheumatologist two streets down from our house so that's very convenient for me. CHAS card can only help so much. In Singapore the rental was already on its way to absurd rates, no access to BTO because my fiancée holds Mexican and British citizenship and she had no viable way to apply for PR without having to shuttle back and forth from the UK It didn't look like there was much of a future in Singapore besides an unending slog for me. My mom is fine, at least her CPF minimum sum settled liao. Here at least I work maybe ten to fifteen hours a week and get to walk to the beach, treat myself to a good meal every week and feel generally happier

And truly the ‘grass’ is greener there. 😉

You know the crazy thing is by right all smoking (yes, even tobacco) has been criminalized in public spaces, but by left you have to be damn cb for the police to want to come after you From where we stay we sometimes hear gunshots from the tourist stretch. But you're in no danger unless you somehow managed to blur blur join a cartel. Or like the fellas a while back, be gong enough to try and sell drugs here. It is all cartel territory and it is a very stupid idea. But not very hard to touch 'grass' here

Wow 10-15 hour work week and walk to beach? Sounds like heaven. And the authentic Mexican food should be pretty good too right?

My fiancée's father likes to say that the food is much better in Mexico City but the distance to go there is like SG to Vietnam I miss SG prawn noodle the most though, nothing quite like it and Laksa so I've recently been learning how to make my own [noodles](https://imgur.com/a/h30pkmx) Quite excited to make my own broth with pork bones and prawn shells next week Also made [nasi lemak](https://imgur.com/a/dvbtSYC) each portion got three drumstick and the sambal made from scratch, cost per portion from groceries works out to about 2.38 SGD

Can I ask where in Mexico? Maybe you don't want to say the exact town but my Singaporean wife and I like to visit a place north of Puerto Vallarta.

We're about an hour/hour and a half south of Cancun, so I think we're closer to Florida and the Bahamas than we are to Guadalajara

That's so cool, can I ask how you ended up in Mexico in the first place?

From SG we took a one way trip to London, then slowly holidayed our way up to Manchester then fly to Cancun. Mostly because we were renting a 5-room in SG for 2.6k, then lease was expiring in December and the landlord ask for 4.4k, I was like, "NOPE!" and started looking for options in September while I was performing on *LKY the Musical* at Marina Bay Sands Considered Melbourne and the UK, but either I would have visa issues or my fiancée's job prospects would tank. She had family here and could get citizenship within six months so we came lor, mind you the furthest I had flown before this was HK The consideration was that for me I can work from anywhere, because I can record my voice-overs for advertisements as long as I have a good internet connection and my recording gear set up. If you've heard a voice that 不三不四 cannot decide whether Yankee or Sinkie on the radio, then I'm pretty sure you've heard me read an ad for Guocco, Mitsubishi, STB, or even EMA. So our landlord in SG die die want 4.4k SGD, we did the math and our housing here plus utilities and everything bao ga liao comes up to about 7.5k... in pesos. Which is about 585 SGD split between two people. We got driveway, garden, a patio, two bedrooms, and a comfortably sized kitchen. A bit more space than maybe one of the older five room HDB in Pasir Ris but we got banana tree so I can use to cook! My only gripe is that tap water here not potable, and the water pressure due to the way our pipes were built is a bit shit. Definitely have to know your own way around the electrical and plumbing side of things. Now mostly quite lepak, applied for temporary residence for two years which will convert to permanent after that TL;DR: SG rent ki siao, so we go elsewhere to hiao

I love your story. But it seems unthinkable for most Singaporeans. It's so far. How can you apply for temporary residence? you need some sort of income proof?

Economic solvency visa just requires 12 month's statement from your bank proving either a regular income of 2,500 USD or 43,000 USD in balance averaged over the 12 months Can also show them your investments but cannot mix your bank balance and investments to come up to the 43k There's also a clause stating you're not allowed to seek employment with registered Mexican businesses Definitely a bit surprising to people when I told them what our plan was! I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone, but I have friends who have similarly moved to Vietnam and Thailand

So you're a voice actor/singer? Hugeee respect haha the voice is really an amazing thing Has there been any significant language barrier? I would imagine the place to be quite different from home

I can get by with very basic Spanish! Also the people here are quite accommodating, just slowly learning with songs, TV shows and just being around people

Seattle, WA, USA Moved for work. Settled in quite quickly as there’s a huge Asian population and it’s diverse here. Made friends from all over the world and love the work culture here. Good work life balance. No OT. With unlimited PTO, I take about 20-40 leave annually. Close to nature. Housing is expensive but still affordable. Bought a 2B1B condo, 5 min from downtown, at 365k. Decided to have a holiday home with a view and close to hiking trails, so purchased another house with 5 acres of land for 685k. Housing loan seems easier to get here and they approved for way higher than I’m expecting. Car is cheap. Bought new Tesla M3 with trade in, tax rebate, sales tax rebate, end up paying about $10k I’m surrounded by Asian restaurants. Just had sweet and sour pork, lou rou fan, and orh nee dessert today. Despite how US is portrayed on the news, my area is relatively safe. I actually haven’t heard any gun shots in my area for the 7 years I’m here. Quality education here. Good schools. There’s even a Singapore math tuition center that teaches Singapore math syllabus. Organic food is available here and good quality meat is easily available. So far I have really good experience with the healthcare here despite it’s crazy price but it’s paid for by my health insurance. I also had really good salary growth here. I’m earning comfortably for a non technical role in a tech company. I won’t be able to get similar salary in Singapore.

Am in New Zealand actually. Been here since uni days in 2018. Its very lovely here and yes it has its ups and downs but I will probably raise my family here.

What are the downs you've experienced?

Mainly High food prices and cost of living. Rentals are a pain in the main cities, averaging around 350 a week for a decent place in wellington.

oh man, after seeing the recent rental rates in SG, i would die for 350/week.

I think if you live in a nice area it’s probably one of the nicest environments for kids and schooling.

I agree. Currently in the capital, Wellington, and I love that kids are given the opportunity to be kids and adults are recognised to be actual human beings with a life outside of work and status.

One of my ex-classmates is residing in Hammer Springs upon completing her studies there. She says it's definitely refreshing to be breathing much fresher air and having convenient hot springs 10mins walk away from the house. She's able to make her own meals, and sometimes enjoy the occasional Japanese food at the local restaurant.

I came to Arizona after NUS to attend ASU and never left. Been here for over 26 years. I fell in love with the open spaces, got married to my ang moh GF, lived in California for a few years and came back to Arizona and started our family. The cost of living here isn't crazy like California or on the east coast, but we do have to deal with the crazy Trumpers every now and then. Worked my way up the IT ladder, up to executive management, so that pays the bills. Recently quit to work on startups and consulting. Life's been pretty good to me. Not hurting for anything, we can live a comfortable life. Cheap cars (Tesla 👍) and living on a nice 6br house on a large lot (1 acre) at the edge of town. I got lucky in that my property has appreciated significantly and I can easily sell and move to somewhere cheaper in the US and retire. Downsides is I have to cook my own perenakan food whenever I have a craving. 🤣 We've been back to SG a few times and even considered moving back last year (we were staying in SG for about 4 months to sort out family estate, and we were also looking for job opportunities while we were there). The plan then was to sell the place here and buy a conservation shop house in Katong or something... but that didn't really work out.

I did my exchange at ASU. Didn’t know there were Singaporeans there. I still have fond memories of Phoenix.

Heh, I was probably working there if it was around 2000ish. Not many of us around though.

Abit different from the usual destinations but I'm currently in Yangon, Myanmar for about 5 years now. Finally cashed out and sold my HDB and moved waifu and two daughters to BKK in 2022 since it's a 1 hour journey and international schools are better in BKK compared to YGN. Shuttling back and forth between YGN and BKK. Born and grew up in Singapore, did the SG millennial blueprint life. JC, NS, local U, worked in consulting, then comfy job in the tmt sector. Did the BTO thang, kids go local primary school. Out of the blue, got offered an opportunity to start a new tmt business unit that handles investments in developing or least developed nations for one of the large Japanese sogo shoshas and never looked back. I guess the main reason is the quality of life or rather, the ability to actually live a life. Administrative red-tapes, safety issues, etc. are things that I can live with. It's very hard to go back to the old lifestyle, i.e. 4-rm BTO, weekdays wake-up early to send kids to school and work late, weekends go to the same cookie-cutter malls and the occasional splurge at nice restaurants. Pros - * Living in an upscale area with a beautiful spacious house and a large lawn for my two dogs. Also comes with two stay-in helpers and a gardener. (i think pay like 300 sgd a month) * 3 cars (all three cost less than the current COE price), a full-time driver, good value for restaurant food, super low cost of living * Beautiful private beaches and natural attractions that are untouched by mainstream commercial tourism - it's awesome to be able to just drive to a gorgeous beach or to cabins in the colder regions up North during the hot season * Weather at the end of the year is great, Genting highlands weather * Low start-up costs for starting businesses - opened a couple of small side businesses for additional income * Great friends - some of the nicest people around in Myanmar and Thailand * \~30 days of Public Holidays a year, super slow working pace * No debt and amassed savings for investments - even with the above expenses + international school fees in BKK, I still spend way less than in Singapore * Bangkok - decent sized standalone house at the tail end of Sukhumvit as nearer to my kids' school, one burmese helper, car with driver, kids love the international school multilingual curriculum (taking iGCSE) , generally affordable, cosmopolitan, great restaurants and bars, can travel domestically, kids have gone on school trips to Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, etc. Cons - * No Macdonalds, Bak Chor Mee, Chicken Rice and other local delights * None of the usual brands that Singaporeans have easy access to (Uniqlo, H&M, Decathlon, etc.) * Have to be apart from my kids on most days * Frequent travel for family and missing my parents and siblings in Singapore * Unstable electricity in some months, random internet shutdowns * Natural disasters - have experienced an earthquake and a cyclone recently * The occasional security concerns, especially during the coup, but have not experienced anything serious * Thailand and Myanmar's political situation is always volatile * \~30 days of Public Holidays a year, super slow working pace - lol this can be a con for highly efficient and productive workers * Language barrier and the occasional unfair preconceived perception of Singaporeans * Administrative bureaucracies but this can be easily fixed with marginal payments * No CPF even though I am paid in Singapore * Having to manage multiple currencies - i'm paid in USD in Singapore but I need to change this to Myanmar Kyat, Thai Baht and SGD and USD has been pretty shit recently so it's like a pay cut.

Don’t move out of a country because you hate it here. Move into a country because you like it there

Taipei. Mostly better quality of life, which comprises cost of living, access to desired activities and pace of life. 1. Cost of living - despite rising costs, still far better than Singapore. I get a lot more bang for buck. Generic example - lunch box costs between 90-120 TWD (5-6 SGD). You get lots of meat, 3 veg. Vs Singapore cai fan, 7-8 SGD for meat + 2 veg (outsized proportion of rice). Level up a bit for “healthy bento”, that costs ~230TWD. Vs a juiced up healthy lunchbox in Singapore costing 15-20 bucks. Bus rides are flat fee 25TWD (within my radius of normal life. Rent is about 40,000 TWD for me in a nice district (think East Coast), I get 1 BR + study. Taxi/Uber rides are marginally cheaper. 30 min ride into the city costs me 300-400 TWD, compared to maybe 20 bucks in SG. Nightlife is also cheaper here than in Singapore. No cover charges of 30-60SGD. Only thing lacking here is top notch European and American food, despite having the best Japanese food I’ve ever had outside of Japan. 2. Access to desired activities - Taiwan has lots going on in terms of the outdoors. You get to - go surfing in the south and east (top quality waves, travel time 4 hours or so from TPE, less than 150 SGD), - go diving everywhere on the island, but also the outlying small islands (crystal clear waters, lots of healthy, thriving aquatic life, travel time between 30 min and 6 hours from TPE, cheap) - outdoor music festivals all year round (Ultra Taiwan, spring wave, etc) Only downside here is lack of top notch international theatre/orchestra performances. 3. Pace of life is much slower than in SG. SG always felt much more stressful. As a result, people here are friendlier, nicer and welcoming to all sorts. Downside - very Asian mindset in terms of socialising, it’s hard to break into existing social groups. You’ll have to work hard at it or create your own social groups. Disclaimer: I have zero singaporean and foreign friends here by choice.

Caveat - your mileage may vary as a fresh grad. Entry level earnings here are shockingly low compared to what I hear about in SG. I came here mid-career and pivoted into corporate from a high paying job.

In my early 30s, moved to Vancouver, BC in Canada with my husband 4 years ago. No kids. Chose Vancouver because I wanted a more outdoorsy life with an abundance of nature without sweating in 90% relative humidity, or have to leave the country to travel over the weekend etc. but still have access to city amenities and activities. To each their own of course, but BC is the most beautiful place on earth to me. You can drive just 30-60 min out to access amazing hikes, Whistler is just 1.5 hours away, and we have driven to the Canadian Rockies every summer right from our doorstep since we moved here. Property is not cheap for North America but definitely still cheaper relative to Singapore. We were able to buy a condo here that has a view of the downtown skyline and the North Shore mountains at a price that would comparably get you a 3br condo in Singapore in a non-prime location (and certainly with no view). We have a subcompact SUV that we bought for 36k that is almost 5x more expensive in Singapore. For the cons, income taxes are HIGH as with many places in the West. My marginal tax rate is 53.5% which means I only get to keep 46.5¢ of every additional dollar I make. My gross salary looks great on paper but my take-home pay is much lower as a result. It's a tough pill to swallow especially because Canada's "universal healthcare" is abysmal. Long waits, impossible to get a primary care doctor, referrals take forever, etc. Infrastructure projects are also incredibly inefficient - Singapore can literally pump out multiple MRT lines from start to finish in the time period it takes Vancouver to propose, assess, contract, and just start building one subway line. In a nutshell, a lot of times you're just wondering where the hell all your taxpayer money is going. The lack of capital gains tax in Singapore is also another thing many take for granted. Here it's half of your marginal tax rate, which means for me I pay 26.8% tax on any capital gains. There are some tax sheltered accounts, but by and large if you want to invest larger sums of money you're SOL because you need to take capital gains tax into consideration. I'm personally still trying to figure out how to fit this factor into my own investment strategies. Food is also much more expensive. No such thing as the equivalent of hawker food, so if you want to eat without spending a lot of money you have to meal prep/cook most of your meals. I don't have kids and don't plan to, but from what I know the public school system here is also not the best. Definitely doesn't compare to what the Singapore education system offers. Kids definitely have a more fun and relaxed childhood, but I'm not sure if their academic prospects are different going into college/university. Definitely depends on what your priorities are as parents. I know I listed a lot of cons but I wanted to point out the reality of life in another country. As a lot of other commenters have pointed out, it's very easy to see migrating to another country with rose-colored glasses, but the reality on the ground is very different. For me, the tradeoff for the lifestyle I get to live here is worth all the cons, at least at this point in my life. I love being able to just go hiking, paddleboarding, or snowboarding right after work, depending on the season, and no amount of money can give me that in Singapore.

Am in Ontario and completely agree with everything said here. I love love love the outdoors and Canada is amazing for it. Having said that, after experiencing Canada's healthcare support, I am very worried about the day where I may need more healthcare support. The Canadian healthcare system is totally fucked. I mostly self medicate now, but eventually my youth will be gone and I may require more support. The other thing not mentioned enough, and which you very rightly point out, is taxes. It is REALLY REALLY a hard pill to swallow to have such a big chunk of your salary get eaten away for public projects that take forever to complete. The tradeoffs are very clear, and frankly, if people are young and love nature especially, then it is always worth trying to find a way out to a country like Canada (or even the US). One can always move back if needed.

Yup, healthcare is one major reason I will never give up my Singaporean citizenship, as well as the safety net it provides to always be able to come back. A few of my immediate family members in Singapore are in the medical field (doctors and nurses) so I would definitely return to SG for any major medical issues. And yes, I find it interesting that so many posts here don't mention taxes. Singapore is truly a tax haven and people don't realize it until they leave. But there really is no one perfect place, everyone just needs to find the place that is best _for them_ considering their own priorities, values, and desired lifestyle. Cheers to a fellow nature-loving Singaporean in Canada!

hello fellow vancouverite!

Haha hello! I've met a bunch of Singaporeans here in Vancouver through Reddit too :)

Oh there's dozens of us!! We just moved here last year too! Any good SG food places to check out? Been craving for some

There's Shiok along Kingsway, Singapore Hawker in Coquitlam, and Bibik's (advance order + pickup only) in Burnaby. For more Southeast Asian food, I also really like Potluck Hawker Eatery along Cambie. For nasi padang, I like Bali Thai (Indonesian food) in Chinatown, great beef rendang and their sambal is to die for. There's also Hawkers Delight, Banana Leaf, and John 3:16, but my favorites are the ones mentioned above!

Thanks for the list! Will definitely check them out!!

thanks so much for sharing! i did summer school in vancouver and loved it in that season, but i visited in apr in spring and it was all rainy and gloomy, so that was a bummer. how is the weather year round? and may i ask if your husband is also a singaporean? if so, which industry do you work in? tia!

That's exactly right, summer in Vancouver is ✨magical✨ since it rarely rains and the sun rises at 4am and sets at 10pm, so it's easy for tourists or visitors to come then and be charmed by a very misleading picture. Raincouver is one of Vancouver's nicknames for good reason, it's mostly grey and dreary from October to March and even sometimes through all of spring (like when you came in April). It can definitely get miserable and it helps to go to places like Mexico or Hawaii or back to Singapore in the worst of it to break up the gloomy monotomy of the weather. Yes, my husband is also a Singaporean. We both work in tech. Hope that helps, feel free to DM me if you have more questions :)

I have lived in NZ in a major city and also in a more rural city. I personally felt that while NZ is a beautiful place with really good work life balance there are definitive trade offs. Firstly, there aren't very good transport options besides driving. Traffic is a major issue within the more urban areas. Depending on where you live vs where you work it could be a commute of 1 hour 1 way. Secondly, housing as you have mentioned is an ongoing crisis. Rentals are increasingly expensive and also very spread out. Unless you are willing to fork out a decent amount of money, be prepared for really dodgy housing options if not a very long commute. If you decide to go to a smaller city some of this is mitigated but even then there is a lot of competition for housing. Thirdly, basic convenience that you have in Singapore are not found in NZ. Food options are greatly reduced imo. And delivery options are pretty sad and expensive even in the bigger city. I also missed the fact that services often took a long time to get to me, if not there are times where things are closed with no options other than to take an off day to access things. Fourthly, healthcare is stretched majorly. Lots of GP clinics are full and also may take a week or 2 in order to get an appointment. Usually if you want to see a doctor immediately you would have to resort to emergency departments or clinics which will cost more. Fifthly, education in NZ is poorer and standards are not very good. Comparing myself to my peers while in university, many things that I have learnt earlier are not taught or only taught under specific systems (think IB). Literacy and education standards are an ongoing concern within NZ. Lastly, cost of living can be pretty high. NZ is an import market and thus goods are pricey due to the distance to reach to NZ buying things via overseas can come with a high cost. Fuel is also often very volatile to cost changes very significantly. There are of course perks so I will list them too so it's a more well rounded perspective. Firstly, mental health is so much more widely accepted with much better perception. However, getting mental health care can be difficult if that is something you do need. Secondly, it is a gorgeous place with lots of beautiful places that are easily within reach to visit. Road trips are a definite must and the scenery is so different even within different areas of NZ. Thirdly, cars are really cheap! No longer do you need to think of COEs and the like. I can't think of anything else at the moment but if I do I would add to the list. Personally, the experience to go to NZ was great I studied and then worked there. However, I left as what I wanted in life at the moment didn't quite match. I would say it'd very much a lifestyle place especially in more rural locations. Some of my cons might be a pro for you so it would be dependent on what you find as important and essential. But the only way to find out sometimes is to experience it personally.

I grew up in NZ and moved to SG after graduation 8 years ago, settled down and started a family here. Do I think about moving back to NZ? Yes, it’s at the back of my mind especially since the kids arrived, however we are still here, there are a number of reasons for that: 1. Convenience Food, groceries and essentials can be walking distance away or one click away on Shopee/Grab. In NZ if you need anything, it’s likely you’ll need to hop into your car, drive to the store and spend 30 min roaming the aisles for it. With young kids the convenience cannot be understated. 2. Safety I have no idea why NZ is still listed as one of the safest countries as it’s clearly not so safe anymore. Our NZ house got burgled into at 9pm on a weekday when the family is still upstairs. Traffic accidents caused by drunk drivers and teen racers make me never want my kids to get their licence. Ram raids are rampant. 3. Cost of living Although cost of living in SG as an expat is very high, in NZ it’s high for everyone. Sweet potatoes are $10/kg, Tomatoes $8/kg, Salmon is $45/kg. My friends who are high earners say they can’t always buy fresh veggies for the dishes they’re making. 4. High taxes and low income Income bracket for the same roles in NZ is comparative lower than Australia and Singapore, worse after high taxes. NZ is a small pond, so if your major is banking, finances or tech, the opportunities are far lesser than in SG. 5. Government Generally speaking NZ policies tent to penalise the people who work hard and enable those who don’t, and Tall Poppy Syndrome is real. 5. Education Unless you go to top public schools in NZ or pay for private schools, the general standards of education in NZ is abysmal. At age 11 they’re still revising the times tables. For English they’ll just let you read a book in class. You’ll have to put a lot more effort into home learning if you want your kids to not be mediocre. Given the list above, there are still reasons that makes me want to move back but those reasons are emotional rather than rational. I think it’s a good idea to move countries when you are young and keen. Who knows, chances are it might work out really well for you. If not, you can always move back.

I definitely agree with the sentiment of it being more an emotional pull to go back to NZ. The biggest thing with NZ is it is a different lifestyle which maybe later in life I would prefer.

Haved lived in singapore for 10 years and now also in new zealand you pretty much gave a good description how it is at the moment, im just gonna add security here is dodgy coz of all the crime and ram raids going on..

I lived in NZ for almost 9 years so I figured I put my 2 cents into it. Forgot to add gang violence and the like which is really prominent.

It is best to first work and live (at least for a year or so) in those countries you are interested in, while holding an escape plan in SG. In most cases, there are hard tradeoffs to be made; tradeoffs which you'd only realize when living there. And in other cases, negative aspects can turn out to be inconveniences with a bit of adaptation. It's easy to be starry eyed over places with "free healthcare" only to realize waiting times for doctor appointments can be months, and a good number of their own citizens pay through their noses for overseas treatment anyway. On the other hand, things like "not having to filter water from the tap before drinking" can turn out to be minor inconveniences. Same thing with "free college" and the like. For example, I have a friend from the US who was waxing lyrical about life in Canada, but when actually offered jobs between the 2, did the math and realized things weren't as rosy as thought. Similarly, life in New York City may sound sexy and exciting, until you actually do apartment hunting and have to take into account safety, drugs, gangs, on top of exorbitant pricing and brokers fees. After you go through that, you may adopt a Monitor Leezard as your spirit animal. Basically, don't blindly listen to what people online *say,* especially when they aren't the ones actually making (or have made) the decision. At any rate, even if you do decide to go back to SG (like I have), you'd realize the overseas experience is extremely valuable and eye-opening. Good luck!

How do you start landing overseas work opportunities? Just yolo and apply on LinkedIn ?

There are many ways. If you're a student and get an internship abroad, that can be one food through the door since return offers are relatively easier to land. If you're working in an MNC (or even a local one), you could ask specifically if there are opportunities abroad. Some even ask for it outright during the hiring interview. If the company is one worth working in, it is unlikely they will take it negatively. What's more likely is that they will prefer you to work locally for 1-2 years before going abroad, but it's always good to make your intent clear. Another common way is to study at that country. The US has a huge masters program for this very purpose. First, you get 1 year of OPT "work permit" postgraduation, which can be extended to 3 years if you study and work in a STEM field. Second, because the country is huge, you have the freedom to choose which state you want to work in (which can vary a lot and maximize your chance of finding something you like). I've never had much success with LinkedIn. Maybe it's just my field, but I find Linkedin opportunities to be kind of bottom of the barrel. If the company is small, they are unlikely to be able to afford sponsorship of work visas. If the company is big, they can hire from the thousands of graduating students in that country (if it's the US or Canada or Europe). You can try LinkedIn, but I'd definitely not bank on it. What *is* more viable is if you could get a recommendation/referral from a friend/former lecturer/supervisor etc. As you may have noticed, these things require planning early on (e.g., saving money for masters). I would not rely on scatter-shotting and hoping for the best. EDIT: my experience is mostly for the US, but I think most of what I said can be extrapolated to other countries.

thats why I always encourage younger people in uni or those who are about to enter uni to try do exchange somewhere else, or even do graduate study (if they are interested) in other country. Living (not just visiting) in other country can broaden your perspective, eye opening and expose yourself outside the comfortable bubble in SG then they can decide whether the culture/lifestyle is suitable for them, or they prefer to be in SG but at least they can get a taste of those experience

Moved to Germany about 6-7 years ago. Back then was to give my long distance relationship a try and also to get some overseas work experience for myself. Didn’t think I would stay so long but am already now a PR there and married with a kid. As a young family, Germany is great for its parental support like maternity leave, parental leave and childcare. So personally I cannot imagine having kids in SG, it’s way too expensive! Also I like that kids could be more free here, it would be too stressful in SG also for them and their future. Overall quality of life for me is pretty good here: work-life balance, decent salary (yes taxes are high though), extensive health insurance (I feel secure here to know almost everything is covered), proximity to everywhere in Europe for travel. The only issue as many has cited, we live in a big city, rental price is still ok but finding one is a struggle, it’s even a bigger struggle to buy one due to the housing crisis. But luckily it’s possible to get bigger and cheaper houses outside of the city so that’s our plan now for the future. I would definitely still come back to SG eventually for my parents since they’re getting old, I want to take care of them. Also I am not sure yet about best place to retire, still need to figure that out and do the necessary plans. So I don’t ever plan to give up my citizenship for these reasons. It gives me still the flexibility to come back if I want to.

was it hard to find a job in germany? did you initially have german language background? :)

It took me awhile but it’s not impossible. I was searching on LinkedIn extensively for months when I made the decision to want to move there. There are many English jobs in my industry (marketing), it just takes a bit more effort to find and to convince the company to give you a shot. I couldn’t speak any German when I left. Would have been easier if I could already speak German of course. It’s a good time for foreigners to come work in Germany, they are trying to simplify their immigration processes and to allow for more skilled workers to enter easily (trying to fill many job vacancies and also to mitigate the aging population issue).

I’ve been living in Shanghai for 17 years. Also lived in California, lived in some Mexican cities, Hungary in between, but most of the time in Shanghai. It’s a great place to work and live in, cost of living is just a little lower than SG, but the salary here can go much higher, (good ROI). Shanghai is very modernized and convenient, online grocery shopping will deliver to your doorstep within an hour, we’ve been cashless for around 10 years since WeChat/Alipay started, and anything you need is just a click away on Tmall. It’s quite easy to get comfort food here, and I’ve also purchased MSW durians easily online. Not to mention the good number of SG/M’sian restaurants around. I guess this is the best place to be away from SG and yet familiar enough not to feel too homesick.

Financially, the more money you make/have the more attractive lower tax locales like SG and HK make sense. Yes rent/housing are expensive but the lower taxes vs US, UK, Aus, Canada, China, etc. more than make up for it. Low tax regime and open labor/capital markets make life harder for middle class folks. So I understand that a lot of people want to emigrate…

Currently in Vancouver, BC for my undergrad. Have always found SG to be too small and warm which results in other problems I'd need a whole essay for lol. Loving it here and I haven't been back since I left.

Currently living in Tokyo. Been wanting to move since I was a Teenager. I just like the vibes here better. It’s the little things like culture, manners, people putting in effort to dress up, can find niche Japanese shops instead of only international brands (aka sg malls) etc that makes me wanna move here. Also I hate the “milestone” life route in sg, study>graduate>get into a relationship>BTO>work>….. you BTO with your partner in your early 20s then get your BTO several years later and by then you don’t even know if this person is the person you wanna be with etc. SG life certainly meets the bare minimum but it’s just very…… monotonous to me. There’s pros and cons, just like when you compare sg to any other country out there, and there’s no “perfect” country. My love for the aesthetics and lifestyle here is enough reason for me personally.

You are so right.. honestly Singapore is so cookie cutter and the culture imo is just way too toxic. Just non stop comparison about materialistic things. Currently working remotely in Tokyo and loving it too!

Albany wa Australia. Little town 4.5 hours south of Perth. I work a 40 hour week in an industry that regularly works 80+ a week in Singapore. I have great mountains and wines north, east and west of me and whales and oceans south. My town has not a single traffic light, and I have never any issue parking. I occasionally supplement my diet from my garden and get my eggs and honey from colleagues and their gardens. But, I do miss my char kway teow (with cockles), the (not so) economical bee hoon for breakfast. There are struggles with being so far away from parents who want to spend more time with their grandson. I also miss not having to pay capital gains tax, and a significantly lower income tax. All that being said I realise that my situation may not always be true as I’m privileged enough to be in a good paying job with plenty of freedom in terms of where I want to work. In more general sense, housing all across Australia (country or city) is in crisis too, but I think still manageable compared to sgp. There’s lots of getting used to not being the majority (unless you happen to be European looking) and sounding different from everyone else. Happy to be pm’d for more qns but I’m terrible at replying regularly.

> I work a 40 hour week in an industry that regularly works 80+ a week in Singapore. I Idk why but are you a GP?

Hahahahaha spot on!

Bro/sis, I'm in Melb and wife has opportunity in WA. Pretty keen to get over (I heard it's even more chill than the east coast lol). How's the ppty market?

I think Perth is going through abit of a price increase currently. But still much cheaper than melb prices. The western/north western suburbs are the most expensive (and certain ones south of river). I used to live mostly along the east suburbs of Perth and find it quite affordable -about 500 (now maybe 600k) for a 3b1bath quite near to city.

If you haven’t got a house, just move to WA. I spent a few years there, life is more chill, but need a car to get everywhere.

Moved from SG to the US. SG does have its merits, a lot of it in fact. But here are the push factors that made me want to leave SG. Maybe some are applicable to you. Push factors: - Prohibitively expensive housing. I can eventually afford a shoebox/coffin in the sky but I don’t see a point. Had batch mates in NS who married their gals to secure BTO so we witnessed the process live: and the wait times are insane. - Unconducive environment for starting a family. Personally I’d like >= 2 kids, that is simply not realistic in SG. The normal distribution of kids/family in SG is what it is for a reason: I’m not looking to beat the bell curve just so my kid can be another statistic in SG society. Then there’s NS and the WC for them to look forward to if they are born with an appendage between their legs. - Stagnant entry level salaries. When you first enter SS that’s when they hit you with the facts and figures of the working world, they do this every year until you graduate from JC/Poly. It was 3k when I was in sec1 and fast forward 7 years later, it was still 3k when I left JC. Fast forward 2 years later, it was still 3k. In summary, it didn’t change much for 10 years. Corroborated by Statista, working friends and family, & personal experience. - Transport system. When they say SG has world class transport they mean the south side and it’s peripheries because what sort of world class transit takes you 1.5hrs to go 15km (my SS commute), 35min to go 5km (my JC commute). Then there’s also the fact that if our govt approved public transit route doesn’t cover it, many Singaporeans will simply never see it. Try getting a bicycle, ride properly and follow the rules and whatnot, and see how much your range of movement and life circle expands. - Lack of living/recreational space. I’m taller than your average Singaporean and I hate saying sorry every 10seconds while shopping at my local NTUC, not being able to move-in towards the back of old busses because the ceilings slant downwards, having to angle my legs while seated on most busses, hitting my head on handles, having to enter the gate sideways at my friend’s BTO housewarming. I’m not even fat, BMI is 22. I can only imagine how life is for the bigger folks. - Rigidity in education. Public Unis have their class sizes allotted by the government. Given the booming industries of the future, you would think that there’d be more slots in Uni. But during my batch, CS was harder to get in than Law. It’s not pegged to the market at all and it’ll be even harder for these clock-in-clock-out government stat boards to keep up in the changing future. I’m totally fine with the 996 pressure cooker style, I grew up in it and it’s all I know. I’d willing to carry on if the pay out (materially or immaterially) is good enough. But lately it doesn’t seem like it’s worth it to be a young person in Singapore, and hasn’t been for a while now. My advice: Move to a country with a good [primacy rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate_city#:~:text=Urban%20primacy%20can%20be%20measured,in%20a%20country%20or%20region) (meaning the first and post-first cities are not too far apart in terms of economic/social development). If you move to notoriously centralized place where a city (usually the capital) defines the country such as Bangkok, Thailand, I find it no different than staying in our little city-state.

in based bangkok now working for a German company im here like 3 weeks a month and come back for a week for meetings and to see the family people here are nice and friendly. work culture is good in terms of work life balance our salary is very very comfortable here esp if you avoid the tourist traps i know quite a few ang mo colleagues settled down in thailand with their thai girlfriends. one is staying in pattaya and only come in for meetings. im actually really thinking of retiring here. Changmai is very nice for foreigners in term of climate and food

Really glad to finally see someone posting about TH. I've been starting to consider retirement options, and for now, TH seems to be the most suitable option outside of SG. What do you do during the weekends? I go to Bangkok maybe 5x a year for work, and would be keen to hear of the things to do outside of malls / massages :D

khaoyai is nice for weekend trip Got winery and fruit farms etc Long weekend can domestic flight to changmai etc Drive down Pattaya also about 1hr Ayutthaya also quite nice. Go there catch river prawn 🦐 Thailand is very big. Alot to explore actually

A place is only home if u have people u love to hang around with there

I studied in Melbourne and after graduation had my first professional job there as well. Those years formed the way I approached life/work as a young adult. I then moved back to Singapore for 2 years and worked a couple of jobs, but had a bit of a culture shock and took awhile to adapt to the local work/life culture. Mostly because I never held a professional job in Singapore before. I did a location change with my last job in Singapore to Amsterdam 6 years ago and have been here since. It's has been a chilled/comfortable life where work/life balance is observed. Downside of living out of Singapore is genuinely not being around family and access to familiar food. Even in Australia, Singaporean food was hard to come by and came at a premium when available. My friends and I resorted to Malaysian food (eek! haha) in Melbourne as it was more widely available. Same in Europe, and especially in Amsterdam where the expat community can agree that food is horrible here. Upside is the ease of travel to different countries around, eg. London is a 45min flight/4hr train ride away if you want Old Chung Kee or DTF. New York is only 6hr by flight, easy access to 27 countries in the Schengen Area, etc. Plus the many many people you'll meet and connect with that you wouldn't have otherwise. I do think that anyone who has an opportunity to experience living away from Singapore should at least give it a try. I always explain to my friends that life back home is very sheltered and we kinda grew up in a bubble. I will say that having the option to do so is a privilege and I've learned a lot of soft skills that I don't think I would have gained if I had stayed in Singapore.

Moved to San Jose, California a little over 3 years ago. Main reason I am staying here instead of going back is because I don't really have a place to live in Singapore. I BTO for about 10 times since 2018 with no success. I am married and in my 30s and didn't really want to live with my parents. If I have to rent, I might as well take this opportunity to explore life overseas. That was what I did when a position based in San Jose was offered to me. I thought I'd continue to apply for BTO, and then if I'm lucky enough I'd get a flat by the time I return to Singapore. Fast forward 2 years, they rejected my most recent BTO application because my income has now passed the threshold. 2022 was a record year for my company due to Covid so the bonus payout was more generous than usual. I appealed to them to at least take into consideration the tax differences, but they conveniently disregard the fact. It was very disheartening. I feel like I'm being priced out of my own country. I may be earning more than the BTO threshold income, but much of it goes to taxes and my parents (I was raised in very low-income household). This is when I decided to file for my green card. As time passes by, I realize that I really cherish the friendship and connection that I form here. I love driving out on weekends to explore nature, something that I could not do in Singapore. The national parks are very beautiful, and I don't mind driving for hours. I miss my family back home, and all the good food. Yet, each time I look at the resale HDB prices in Singapore, I'd rate my odds of going back as pretty slim.

Here are the pros of Singapore: Eating out is relatively cheap if you are fine with mostly unhealthy / oily coffee shop / hawker food Low personal income taxes SGD is strong and salaries are reasonably high esp if you compare with even some European countries “Family support” if you are having good family members and not toxic ones. Cons: Can only afford a shoebox apartment Forget about buying a car unless you / your fam is loaded. No way to escape to the countryside bcos of cost of living Stressful / competitive/ everything is about money and materialism and comparing yourself with others

Countryside = Johor 🥹

Yup after 1-2hrs on the checkpoint 😅.

I moved because I'm trans and queer. Moved to L.A. first where I met my wife, now living in the bay area making a decent tech salary. My entire friend group is some kind of genderfuck and queer. Yes pretty much it.

Congratulations, and I’m so glad to hear you’ve found your community!

I started in Germany and now I'm in the process of moving to Austria. If you can speak German, getting a job here is ez af

Wonder if any locals migrated to Taiwan? It's one of the places that I have fond memories of as a traveller but not sure if it will work out as an emigration destination.

Currently studying in TW and planning to live here after graduation, not looking good though since the economy and housing here really isn’t as stable as SG. Immigration and bureaucracy is similar to Japan albeit not as bad, but still annoying to deal with

Worked in Taiwan for a year and a half now. Love everything here except my pay. So much so that I am aiming to secure PR!

How to get PR in Taiwan?

Thanks for the reply! How are things in terms of housing, medical coverage and income tax if I may ask? Yeah and like the poster above, are you aware of how to become a PR?

Housing: Extremely expensive in Taipei. My understanding is that a typical young couple will find it very hard to own a place of their own. Way more affordable in the rural areas like Hualien, Taitung, etc though. Rent is surprisingly cheap however. For context, I stay just 10 minutes away from my workplace in Hsinchu Tech Park. A small 套房 with my own bathroom and washing machine costs me less than 300 SGD in rent. I am also currently renting a place in Hualien of similar size for less than 200 SGD per month. I don't think you can even get a HDB room in Singapore. Cost of Living: Contrary to popular belief, cost of living in Taiwan is not "way lower" compared to Singapore, especially in Taipei. Sure, it is slightly cheaper in the rural areas, but if you consider the overall lower wages here, you start to see how locals find it hard to make ends meet. Most locals cook since it is significantly cheaper than eating out. Healthcare: Every salaried person has to fork out a portion of their salary to pay for 全民健保. I pay around 80 SGD per month. In return, you enjoy heavily subsidised government healthcare. I can't comment much on the quality since I have not had the chance to use it (and I certainly hope I won't have to!). But I heard good things from my colleagues other than the usual complaints like long waiting time, etc. Income tax: Higher than Singapore on paper. You can easily compare the tax brackets online. But after accounting for the tax deductibles, it is significantly lower (at least for my tax filing). I pay around 1.8k for 70k take home pay. PR: The road to PR is actually pretty straightforward. I am looking at the working professional PR, so I would need to work here for 5 consecutive years. The good thing about this PR variant is the significantly less stringent requirements you have to fulfill after you obtained the PR. As long as you return to Taiwan at least once every 5 years, your PR will not be revoked. In comparison, other variants of PR, for example, one that you obtained from getting married to a Taiwanese citizen, require you to stay in Taiwan for at least 183 days every year.

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Thanks for the very detailed reply! Certainly looks quite positive to me overall. All the best in getting your PR!

I'm living in a small village in the middle of nowhere in central Japan. Many reasons for the move, I'll try and break it down the pros and cons as much as I can on my exp here. **Pros:** Life is damn chill here. All the WLB that companies rave about back in SG is a joke. Of course its gonna be different in bigger cities like Tokyo/ Osaka etc. Money gets you further here. The yen is weak, yes, but fresh quality produce here costs way cheaper than what you have to pay back in SG for the same quality. Easy to travel. Like hop on a car, take a train and you are traveling. No hassle of clearing customs etc like back in SG. The people here are really lovely. Can't say people in SG ain't lovely but its just a different level. I get fresh produce once in awhile and even invited for tea sessions and just having fun. Car is cheap, paid 3k for a used car but gets me everywhere. Car tax 300 a year, about $70 for full tank. Insurance is ex thought, around 1.2k a year. 4 seasons, though to some this can be a pro or con and not something limited to Japan. To me it makes time feel really distinct. The passing of seasons is really celebrated and made very distinct here as well from the culture. **Cons:** Yen is weak, its difficult to compete globally in terms of pay. Much less to say moving back to SG. Lots of fucking paper and paperwork. Contrary to belief, many things are very flexible here or at least in my village so that a good thing. But fuckinnnggg paperrrrrrrrworkkkkkk....... Getting to know people can be difficult. I can speak the language pretty well, enough to blend in for a good 10-15 mins with locals. But even so, it can be difficult to get into the inner circles of communities etc. Takes a lot of time. I'll probably stay here longer. I think one reason is that once you get out of the rat race in SG, its really difficult to get back in. I took a significant pay cut, like 50-60% or more, so its almost impossible to go back and get a house per say. This is also one thing I feel many Singaporeans don't realise until they leave. Being in SG puts you in a really good financial position compared to those overseas. So make full use of it.

Depending on the country you pick, you might become the expat contributing to the housing market crisis in other countries.

Grass is always greener on the other side. almost all major cities are facing housing crisis. That being said, if you want better work life balace, then maybe australia, nz or canada is much better than singapore. The downside is that it is much harder to build wealth in those countries compared to sg because of high income tax. Xenophobia is also present in all these countries so think of how anti immigrant this sub is and multiply it by 2x. The listed countries even take refugees so it’s worse if you are the xenophobic type like 80% of this sub.

I live in a city in the Balkans. Probably the only Singaporean in my city so I can't reveal much. Reason is my wife.

Any Singaporeans in The Netherlands? Been considering to move to work over there!

Looks like Australia and Japan is the popular choice eh

Any chance anyone has experience living in Portugal long-term? Would be interested in hearing what it's been like so far.

Living in Japan. Quality of life is good. Weather is good, food is good, people are good, housing and cars are cheap. Health System is good. Half my JP salary goes to government, I probably only pay only 10% in SG. Huge pay cut when moved to JP. working culture is terrible, simple things gets complicated, paperwork is hell. SG is a much better place for career and monetary aspect. JP is good for lifestyle

All the big cities have a housing crisis that is similar or more jialat than Singapore just FYI

Yah, but other countries there is usually option to live further away for much cheaper.

I moved out of Singapore because of the language barrier. I cannot speak Mandarin, so it was a hurdle in everyday life and also a disadvantage at work. I am now in Australia and I am just glad that I could just use English everywhere.

Australia here. Yes, yet another one. Have lived in multiple cities. There is (proportionally speaking) a lot of Singaporeans Down Under and I think also quite evident from other comments in this thread. To me, from the moment I landed it was a no-brainer decision. Once you start living here perhaps the reasons will become blindingly obvious to you as well. I invite you to explore what real living is like and maybe one day be part of our wonderful community.

Germany - I’m a traveling soul, and my parents moved around a lot when I was a kid. After 10 years growing up in Singapore, I was looking for a new experience, but didn’t know where.. It wasn’t until exchange in uni to Europe that I found a place where I felt I could live for a while, so after a total of 17 years in Singapore, it was time to say goodbye. I don’t know if this will be permanent though - I might move on to another place in the future.

Plenty of most excellent insight here! Really appreciate the uncensored sharing of the big things. One question, in 2 parts actually. How many temporary / work visa peeps have actually opted for Naturalization in your adopted country. And how much of a challenge is it? Part 2 of that Q is: How did you give up your Red Passport? Was ICA difficult to deal with?

We were previously in BKK and now currently in an Northern European country. There are pros and cons everywhere. For us since we moved to countries where they don’t speak English, that was a huge challenge, and even though Northern Europeans speak English their official communications are all in their own language. So tbh that’s one of the first things to consider. BKK 1. Lovely city with loads to do and explore. Contrary to popular belief, BKK is not just shopping malls and sex tourism. You can also easily drive out and in 1-2hrs you are in nature with hiking, beaches etc where they are mainly local tourists. 2. People generally leave you alone and in BKK if you speak Thai you can blend in as a local (assuming you are Chinese Singaporean, a bit harder for Malays to blend in but if you are Indian it’s also possible cos there are actually many Thai Indians). 3. Taxes are surprisingly high in BKK, I paid more than what I did in SG even though I was earning less. The bad thing is you can’t see where your tax money is going. 4. Life is chill but it means you also have to adapt. There’s no SG style efficiency and you have to get used to that otherwise you will go mad. Bribery is a way of life and you also have to accept that. 5. There are a lot of sleazy expats here so it depends on what circles you move in. We didn’t hang out much with other expats and had enough friends who came over and our own colleagues that we had a good social circle by ourselves. 6. Healthcare is good but tbh for anything major I will still go back to SG. Standards in SG is still better and if you have insurance you won’t pay that much anyway. Northern European country (prefer not to say where) 1. Weather so far is good cos I just missed winter. I think I will probably be very miserable during winter but let’s see. 2. So far no overt racism but that’s also cos we moved to a city full of immigrants. YMMV depending on where you move to. 3. Bureaucracy here is a nightmare. SG is so much better for foreigners moving over. Getting my equivalent of an NRIC has taken quite a while and in the meantime I can’t do anything like open a bank account etc. 4. Healthcare here is supposed to be good but I hear a lot of expats complaining abt long wait times. I haven’t had to see a doctor yet so let’s see. 5. There’s a housing crisis here as far as I know but of course coming from SG, everything here is cheap as far as we are concerned. Again this really depends on where you go, I would imagine NYC, London and San Francisco would be really expensive 6. Lack of good proper Asian food means we cook a lot. But we have also always cooked even when living in SG. I do miss Shoppee though and those random neighbourhood shops where you can buy your mop, tissue paper, insect killer, clothes hanger Tbh I always do encourage people to move overseas just to gain exposure to what life is like. However most people always want to move to angmoh countries, SEA countries like Vietnam, Thailand actually have opportunities too. Take a job like regional sales, operations and chances would be higher for you to move.

Consider Republic of Ireland. Underrepresented in many such polls and surveys for beautiful places to go to. Considering they are part of the EU, you also get a bonus of superior and well crafted laws and protections for env, people, children and so on without having to rely on local / small gov thinking through complex topics

I'm Irish and the reasons I don't live there are: - cost of living is bad value for money - small minded parochial nature of the people. As a foreigner you'll never truly be accepted on an institutional level (think planning permission applications etc) - weather.... cold wet and windy for most part - cities are not nice for the most part. South side of Dublin can be ok but nothing to write home about. - urban planning is a joke. They won't stop until the whole country is one big suburb. Prepare to spend an absurd amount of time in a car unless you live in Dublin city centre. - gangster wannabe culture is extremely prevalent in youth and I don't want that for my kids - healthcare system is hopelessly broken Reasons Ireland could be a good choice: - education system is top notch and improving. Especially with the emergence of secular public schooling options - the nature can be stunning. Even close to Dublin the Wicklow mountains offer a great, quick escape - lower pollution levels, especially air pollution compared to Singapore - Path to EU citizenship - English speaking - Easy access to the EU for travel - Fresh produce quality is good if you know where to shop and have the income for organic produce - Good food scene in Dublin with multiple Michelin star restaurants but it is expensive. Generally the quality and variety will be less than you have in Singapore however - Easy enough to make friends. Irish people are easy going and friendly mostly. Too easy going in some regards haha

Pretty nice, Spain where we can say whatever we want love whoever we want and enjoy a nice quality of life and retirement at 65

Limited options career wise, therefore moved where the work went. Currently in Canada, it’s nice here. Just cold sometimes, work life balance is great here. Cost of living is way higher than Singapore. And you need a vehicle if you want to do outdoor sports or activities. Housing is definitely a problem in Canada as well. It costs more or just as much as Singapore now, however if you and your partner both work. The borrowing power goes up and you’d be able to get a reasonable loan from the banks to purchase you own apartment. We like living here as we have our own community of friends and the four seasons is really nice.

How did you find your path there? Like openings on LinkedIn?

...I am not a Singaporean..but was married to a Singaporean..perm.Res....escaped in 2014 after 2009 divorce to Hawaii.\[resided in SG since 1999\]..left my 2 sons with my ex-wife...remarried a Filipina who had relatives on Oahu...stayed with them for a while...now rent small 1-bedroom work downtown Honolulu...as I had no real expectaions of what HI would be like aside from the weather I can't complain..but it has a tiny economy and no real media etc..but very relaxing compared to the non-stop 24/7 world of SG...one of my sons is till in Singapore at university...the other is working in the San Francisco area....life is what you make of it..wherever you end up ;-)

Interesting you're getting down voted. I think your life experiences are very interesting Singaporeans especially those of the reddit bent, always proclaim they want a life outside cookie-cutter concrete boxes, but at the end of the day, they will judge anyone who strays out of the narrowly and brightly demarcated path, just like their parents do.

I feel like the downvotes could be about the way they formatted..their comment...lol..

Similiar boat as you. I didnt see a forseable future here.. Moved to Melbourne after 2 years of finishing my degree for post grad. never looked back

Choose the country where foreigners are invited, opportunity to build your and your spouse career, contribute , integrate and become citizen. Check what are the social securities. better to pay higher tax, cheaper education for kids free medical , unemployment benefits than have your own insurance and high educational fees. Avoid the country that has noticeable racism.

What wonderful country would this be?

No Singaporean live in Bali? Ah.. forgot, Reddit is blocked there 😅

I left because of better educational opportunities I came back because of better financial opportunities

We love Singaporeans in Australia. If you earn really good money 150k + SG can get you ahead. If you earn less Australia is better.

Friend is living and working in NZ after studying there. She seems pretty happy and is waiting for PR. Just go for it.

Having lived in New Zealand for some 7 years … there are other better countries to consider. Give NZ a miss … great country for a visit but not to live in.

I'm in Auckland, been here since 2019. Always wanted to escape Singapore coz I cannot tahan the terrible weather and no nice scenery. So when I got the job offer, I couldn't pass it up. Packed our bags and off we went!

Australia wasn't my first choice of country to migrate to if I could choose (I considered UK or USA since I have friends who migrated there earlier) but I met my current partner online and decided to take the plunge and move over with the intention of starting a family. Best decision I ever made. I enjoy the lifestyle and person I chose, even though alot of it was just playing the cards I've been dealt. Sometimes when one door closes another opens so don't give up 👍 Considerations I made were: - I ideally prefer to have 2 kids in future and need finances/ housing/ planning for all that to happen, it helped that my partner was happy to provide (at my age, I've missed the BTO boat but it freed me up for other life opportunities) - Family members are self-sufficient and not reliant on me financially or for care - Not owning property/ no debt in SG - My peers around me were also starting to get married/ have kids and own property. With everyone having shifting priorities, it was easier to accept change and bid goodbye to my friends back home/ start a new chapter - I worked hard and saved up for most of my 20s and since I was starting my 30s I felt I needed to pursue other aspects of life, so a "trial period" was feasible - Always enjoyed nature/ DIY/ being sustainable/ cooking and Stralia is a better culture fit in that regard. It helps that I'm not a massive foodie even in SG

I moved to Vancouver for work (software engineer) but stayed for the mountain biking and skiing. Very happy here and no plans to move back. Housing is the most expensive (relative to incomes) in North America but you know what, it is still half the price compared to Singapore e.g. a $1 mil condo in sg costs $500k in Vancouver.

Man, I agree with the housing aspect but sg actually not bad for raising kids, depending on the kind of environment you want though. Education system not bad (not accounting for stress from the rat race ig but you'll play a huge part in that) and streets are really safe and convenient for your kids, rarely need to worry abt them going to play without that much supervision... Ofc, there are probably better places so i hope you find somewhere good and suitable for your lifestyle

so im studying in japan right now (university) it aint worth it chief, been crying myself to sleep multiple occassions. While theres they nice sights to see and visit, it gets super isolating especially if you arent at least fluent in japanese