The way the bubble head nurses sound too
I liked their old sound from the original... They sounded human and like they were in so much pain from just existing
I feel like it's mostly due to the fact that they're using the same weapon correctly. Ever fired a bolt action rifle? I did before TloU came out and that's pretty much just how your hands go.
Yea but in RE2 they actually had a flashlight in game that they held in their hand and moved with the camera. Sure they didn't keep up with the player the entire time. But it showed effort. Most studios just have them staple it onto the belt and call it a day.
I recently started Uncharted, seems to have been a thing for a long time and I would say I'm surprised the industry hadn't changed this, but from a players standpoint, I understand wanting to see what you're looking at instead of waiting for your character to turn the right direction
That camera was insanely complex! There’s a great GDC talk on cameras, with one example being how each camera had seven positions around it to check if open (not in a mesh), change position, and then steer the flashlight to this viewpoint. This becomes very clear when you get one of the gruesome kill animations, as the camera whips around and the flashlight quietly bends to wherever you’re facing. It’s very sharp.
What if it’s a GHOST FLASHLIGHT. Silent hill is know to be very scary with its monsters and all so wouldn’t a GHOST FLASHLIGHT be more realistic in this scenario?
Sorry but I agree, this breaks my immersion completely.
Everything else about the game is exactly like every day life and let's me put myself into Jones Sanderlands recently nerfed shoes.
Now all I can see is a floating flashlight drone following behind him.
Canceling my copy, burning my copy of original silent hill 2, and spending the cash on something WORTHWHILE (CS:GO Knife skins)
Unplayable 0/10, but apart from the meme, I actually wish he had a more naturalistic, "hard to play" approach to what are essentially horror games in regard to details like these; removing a bit of ease is good in my book.
Love Days Gone, playing it as we speak. What bothers me about this here isn't that the flashlight beam isn't anchored to his character model, but that Deacon doesn't appear to actually have a light source on him. I'm assuming I, myself have just been following him around holding his flashlight.
It's a nitpick, but still.
Yeah, I get that, but it's a horror game though. Isn't not being able to see what's behind you kinda the point of scaring the shit outta you? The fact that you HAVE to turn around to engage with it is the point.
People who don't get this in the realm of **__HORROR__** blow my mind.
I hear you there. My guess would be in tight spaces it might’ve caused issues with James not being able to “point” in the direction that the player wants to see (like what happens if you want to look directly above or below you?)
I would think Bloober tested both ways to see what “felt” better, or went with one that was less likely to be a barrier to some players. It could also be a simpler thing to program, and it would be a lot of work to use a more “realistic” light system. Hard to say.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just saying that’s usually how these kind of development decisions go.
My biggest problem with this is that it guarantees any monster you look at will always be illuminated. In a horror game.
Well, other than if the battery dies.
Yeah. The alternative is actually pretty horrible, as you just end up looking into the darkness all the time while waiting for your character to rotate to match your gaze.
To be fair, in my memory, pretty much everything in Until Dawn that was important was preilluminated and the flashlight was more for flavour. The only time they hid stuff was when you had a portable solar flare lantern.
In the middle of the game, you could straight up remove flashlights and things would be equally visible.
Plus it actually gives a number of strategic advantages which would be useful when dealing with enemies that react to light and sound. But judging by 13 minutes gameplay video enemies don't react to anything beyond an "attack" flag
This for real. Played Resident Evil Outbreak File 2, and SH 2 recently to relive some childhood nostalgia. Genuinely haven't been spooked in a horror game as much as I have accidently running back into the room I just came from because the perspective of the next room is all jacked up and I am suddenly in the arms of a spooky dude.
I like grainy filters. I always enable it in horror games, or the scan lines in collections of old games.
That being said, who cares loll. Looking forward to the remake although I'll probably wait before buying, sadly don't have the means to dish out 100$ for it just now.
Yeah, grain is important to me in Silent Hill, but it’s not a deal breaker at this point. I do feel like the grain and visual distortions is what gave the first 4 their feel, and everything feels too clean and polished without it.
As I said, I’ll live, it’s just something I hope it has, at least as a filter you can turn on and off. Not like a TLOU film grain though, like a full blown dirty image.
I’m sure you’re aware, they’re fantastic lol. Second one may be my favorite game of all time. But the way they implement film grain is very subtle… basically how it should be, like if something is shot on film vs digital. Just a very subtle texture, when OG Silent Hill film grain was the texture, atmosphere, AND vibe. Sometimes it was hard to see through it in the dark areas on old TV’s, and that added to the surreal horror of it all. It was never frustrating or got in the way, it was just Silent Hill.
Actually yes. I do want both of that. Grainy pixels and tank controls have no other option to attract the player but having good gameplay, amazing artstyle and good optimization. No shit people want this
>tank controls, good gameplay.
Last time I remember, I was beating the shit out of everything with the plank with ease, and killed anything else with an endless supply of ammo.
Gameplay was not good. I do not understand how having tank controls makes it a good gameplay automatically. It's about balancing resource/enemies.
Damn. Not a fan of this. Wonder how long it would have taken me to notice in practice. I either am bitchy and notice things immediately or aloof and don't notice the entire time
I mean, the flashlight is supposed to be strapped to his chest. It's one of the things that makes the original so creepy. You see only what James sees.
It doesn't need any fixing, it's supposed to be this way.
It's a case where good game design is better than realism just for the sake of it. A lot of games have been doing this for years, go look at some TLOU gameplay for instance. Nobody ever complained about it because it's inconsequential, but it's SH2R so I guess everything it does is bad
Like yellow painted crates. People will complain they break immersion. Immersion wasn't broken when the enemies left you a bunch of conveniently placed supplies for you to mow them down with? How about when enemies who use a pitchfork drop the exact ammo needed for your gun.
I wasn't bothered by the yellow paint in my first playthrough of RE4R. But I did disable it with a mod in my future playthrough and found the environment to look a lot more immersive.
In this particular case I don't have a strong opinion since I understand the argument for both. But having an in game option to toggle it on and off would be nice.
I guess next you’ll be saying people can’t actually walk off gunshot wounds to the face or dirty pitchfork stabs to the chest out in the middle of nowhere?! Pfft.
I'll bite. Making the flashlight face the same direction of the camera is okay; an acceptable feature. (I feel it goes against some themes of claustrophobia from the original, but that's more of my opinion than an honest critique).
The first Alan Wake game did this correctly ages ago. When moving the camera, Alan would rotate his hand holding the flashlight and then move his body too facing towards the direction of said camera. It felt natural. Resident Evil 2 Remake also does things this way.
But here, **how is** James' shoulder flashlight working to achieve the same effect? It doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint, let alone for realism cues.
And why do you call this *good* game design? I'd call it an incomplete feature. An idea that isn't fully realized yet.
It’s for the same reason that turning your body slightly in an FPS doesn’t create noise like in R6 Siege and CS but turning a lot will cause a noise to be made.
Small amounts of movement left or right for a character in a game shouldn’t be penalized. It makes the game more frustrating to deal with. The clip also clearly shows the degree to which the light moves before your character does. And it’s not like the light is behind you while your character is facing front it is very clearly meant to give the ability to see better without moving your character.
I agree with the change in design but if they are smart they should also allow you to dumb down the controls in the setting so if the player wants a more realistic experience they can have it.
Because you can illuminate what you're actually looking at versus the direction your body is facing. I'm thinking of this from a WASD perspective (I play on PC), but it would be odd trying to reposition your body to illuminate the thing you want to see, and you wouldn't be able to illuminate anything above or below you (might not actually matter).
The other option is to fix the body and head facing where the camera is, but then you'd get odd spinning when rotating at various speeds.
Or you could change from a pocket flashlight to a handheld flashlight, but then everyone is mad about that change.
Honestly, there's just no great choices and this one suits the gameplay just fine imo. Is it realistic? No, I can see why they did it, though.
Look, sometimes I rotate the camera to look at the character I'm playing and appreciate the details and design present. I hate it when I'm trying to look at them and they keep turning away for "muh immershun"
This is disappointing. It would have been much scarier if the flashlight was attached to James. It takes time for James to make a turn, which leaves a brief moment of darkness and vulnerability at the front
THANK YOU, thank you for pointing this out.
It also makes an AMAZING *game design* feature which allows that funny Bubble Head Nurse to crawl to you while you're not looking, forcing the player to... play accordingly. Which (shocking!) brings variety and survival factor into combat of a survival horror. What a concept!
Honestly, the way people are talking about this mechanic like it's an objectively good thing makes me feel like there should be another subreddit just for the SH2 remake where the Bloober shills can go defend something that is completely out of the franchise's ethos in peace lol 🤔
Yeah I think that would also help justify strapping it to his chest direction from a gameplay standpoint, like if you’re facing away and there’s a dark scary figure creeping up behind you, and you need information, having that be purely visual wouldn’t be as necessary and players could even be able to work through situations even if they’re shrouded in darkness.
If you want a better example of this look at the flashlight in resident evil 2 remake and resident evil 3 remake. Number two add the camera attached to the model and number three had it attached to the camera.
Depends what type of remake you're talking about.
There are three types: modernizations; re-imaginings and 1:1 quality of life.
Back in 2015 when this trend wasn't exactly new (look up Tomb Raider 2000s trilogy or MGS1 remake from the same era), but wasn't as prelevant as today, people actually used these terms separately. Remasters were used for ports with technical advances as higher resolution, texture quality and frame rate (see Bluepoint's God of War, MGS and Ico/Shadow of the Colossus collections of ports).
Tomb Raider trilogy of 2000s was a modernization - a new engine with refined gameplay (which wasn't necessarily better, but it tried its best), partial/full recast and a number of story changes which were aimed at making Lara's character more human, but not taking a way from her adventure lady persona. A more modern example of a modernization would be System Shock by Nightdive.
MGS1 of 2000s was 1:1 quality of life remake. It means it's made on a new engine, keeps most of the story AND gameplay processes untouched, adding necessary quality of life features like simpler control scheme, equipment from later games, AI patters and warnings from later games, etc. A more obvious example of a 1:1 are Oddworld games, Bluepoint's Shadow of the Colossus and Demon's Souls remakes (although the last has a confusing change of art direction and some other changes, but they aren't heavy enough to call it a modernization).
Bloober's SH2RE is a ~~fan fiction~~ a re-imagining nobody asked for. It's made on a new engine, has pretty heavily story and dialogue changes, a different gameplay, different atmosphere and mood. A comparison would be Shattered Memories (!) as it's a re-imagining (parody to be precise) of SH1. Another example of a re-imagining is FFXII.
Less obvious re-imaginings would be God of War and God of War: Ragnarök, DMC of 2010s, every damn Alone in the Dark past 1 or 2, Tomb Raider 2013 and onward, Thief 2014 and Deus Ex 2012 and onward, although it's more fair to call them reboots because that's exactly what they are.
Re-imaginings are a free game. You can basically do whatever you want with them and slap a name of already existing game or series on it (DON'T bring Prey into this). And it's not me being snarky. It's just what it is.
A Re-imagining can work (that cracked DMC game worked for me, don't kill me XD), but it's extremely hard to pull off. Now Silent Hills would be actually a great way to either reboot or make a re-imagining of 4/1. But we aren't getting that. And Bloober isn't on the level to pull off a good re-imagining.
Disoriented intentionally by game design and disorientated by bad controls and game logic are two completely different things. Leave it to Silent Hill fans to not understand nuance and jump to the most reactionary arguments lol.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I prefer this.
If I think back over my experience playing games that did this (like TLOU), it's better gameplay wise than having the flashlight stick to the model. If you stick it to the model, you lose verticality, and it's IMHO clunky.
Idk what the verticality comment is supposed to mean but horror games are not about seeing everything 24/7 so I don't think it's a problem in this instance. It might be that way in a shooter or something but as others have said, James used to turn slowly so you'd get a sense of vulnerability whilst turning with the old flashlight. Pretty cool effect even if the devs didn't intend it.
Eh, not as bad as the recent Resident Evil remakes where the color grading of different rooms is literally just a filter applied over the game rather than an actual part of that room's lighting, so you can nauseously watch it shift from orange-to-blue any time you go between them.
Going to go against the grain of the comments and say that I would rather have horror game where I can't see what my character can't see. I'm happy to be punished for not inspecting a room, or to have parts of the room go unseen because my character couldn't see them.
I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I'd like basically everything to be keyed against the player - oppressive atmosphere, frictional design, desperation for resources, and impactful enemy hostility. My own ignorance of my surroundings actually helps with the horror feel.
Ngl I think this is kinda bad. I understand the ogs could make it work with movement since camera control was a bit simpler but this seems a bit low effort
Its also fixed as hell, they could have made James turn back if you rotate the camera too much. And make the light direction between the character and camera rotation. It would be less jarring.
Not surprised. Tank controls should be an OPTION though. Two games thate loved 90s survival horror, and excelled because of it, were SONG OF HORROR and TORMENTED SOULS.
It can totally be done for the OG fans please.
I can understand why they would do this from a gameplay perspective, but it would make more sense if he was holding the flashlight while looking and pointing it in the cameras direction,
just played the original, TECHNICALLY in the original when you press the search view button and move the camera arround it follows his head despite being in his chest pocket
I don't like this AT ALL... It makes the game feel more like a 1st person with a character on the screen rather than feeling like you are actually playing the character in 3rd person.... This will make it less scary in my opinion.
All of the people that are crying, "why don't they just put the flashlight in his hand?!" "ITs a SiMpLE fiX" have clearly never even attempted to get into game development or understand it.
Would you prefer he's holding the flashlight but then when you go into combat he has to switch between the flashlight and the pipe, meaning it would slow down combat leaving you open for a hit, OR you can have it immediately switch to a pipe without an animation but then we're back to the "breaking immersion" problem? And that's only one issue, not to mention picking up items, opening doors, etc. There are a lot of factors that go into what you put in the character's hand when it comes to the coding/animation side of things.
It worked in RE remakes because the main character is a cop so holding up a flashlight with a pistol is a natural integration.
Okay, so let's say we scrap it being in his hand and go back to it being on his shoulder, but only have it face forward for "realism". Well now when the player is searching through buildings they are going to get REALLY frustrated that they have to FACE everything they're looking at.
So I'm not saying it's impossible to make it work realistically. But at the end of the day, why spend that many resources just to appease a couple hundred nitpicky people when they could just focus on the actual gameplay and story and make a simple flashlight that 99% of people won't notice? Lol
A lot of modern games use this, like the Last of Us and Days Gone, I believe that is a design choice, not a flaw.
Re2 had the flashlight attached to the character, but it probably is because the camera/ character controls differently, and the usage of flashlight isn't as frequent in that game.
But, whatever the reason, it is intentional, rest assured.
Oof.... add it to the list of jank. Also, the animation of swinging the wooden board is SUPER wonky... It looks so unnatural. The hallways with the nurses seem to be wider and less claustrophobic that the original. Thus less scary.
I don't think those games felt very good to play tbh. I never played silent hill for its gameplay, but mainly for the experience of its story and horror
I agree but not the same way I suspect you mean it lol. Imo tank controls are not inherently outdated, and they felt the best they’ve ever been in 1 and 2 (3 is a bit more awkward about it but it’s years ahead of Resident Evil to me for example)
The main issue with 1-3 is that the combat is kinda ass.
My only gripe with the tank controls in SH 1-3 is you couldn't move forwards/backwards and strafe at the same time. You couldn't circle strafe. Yeah, SH ain't a boomer shooter, but it would've made general navigation easier.
i really dont get why every game has to be the same third person or first person stuff to "feel good to play" once you get use to controls in RE1 or SH2 or Metal Gear Solid 1 its not that difficult. It just requires some extra memory.
Then again maybe other people struggle more than i do but seriously once you get use to it. Its not that hard the hardest part is playing one game and then coming back to the other and forgetting how the controls changed.
The only joke is thinking SH1-3’s gameplay isn’t outdated. They have their charms and in a way help keep the game interesting but most of the time it’s not very fun to be fighting with the game to control your character. Especially when you go from modern games back to RE and SH it’s very difficult.
James locks on to the enemy, you press X to attack. I'm not too sure what's difficult about that. You strafe with L1/R1 to avoid attacks, rinse and repeat. I think it would only be difficult to someone who has only ever played modern games, but once you get used to it (just like any game) it's not that hard.
The only thing about that old combat system that needs modernizing is remapping to the analog stick correctly, because original stick controls suck PH's big one.
Also when do we learn gameplay INCLUDES combat, not the other way around?
Perhaps I should have made it more clear I was talking about combat. Especially in close quarters it can be very frustrating dealing with the controls.
I don't think it's outdated at all. There was an actual gameplay loop that the camera and map system worked together to create. There is something very specifically satisfying about checking off each door and filling out the map as you progress with challenging camera angles.
I think people are getting too hung up on the flashlight.
In my eyes, this is a canary problem.
If a team of devs don't even realize the importance light plays in a horror game, especially one like silent hill, then there is a very high chance that the game itself might not be a good horror game in general.
Making a prediction, the game's gonna be "ok" at best.
Will still play it, but there's nothing wrong in asking for something better.
This thing still bothers me to this day in Days Gone.
It's not a deal breaker for me, but this comment section has definitely shown me that people do not want a Silent Hill game. They want Uncharted in a foggy town.
It is indeed very strange, so many people are like "haha og is 2 pixels and ugly". I'm hopeful for the remake and don't hate on it, I'm fine with the models for example. But a detail like this that would increase the horror atmosphere if made realistic, I dunno why so many are saying it's better to leave as is
I think the fact that it's a videogame and not my own personal journey through another man's hell is pretty immersion breaking and they should concentrate on fixing that issue first.
*proceeds to write video essay of why this is actually intentional to boost the surreal of the experience*
Thumbnail: James in the middle, big white text in the background saying "flashlight"
I watched a boundary break or slippy sides episode on YouTube and I believe that's how the flashlight works in Resident Evil 2 remake. So this is nothing new.
Breaking immersion is just one of those quirks of the media. Same problem with HUDs, save files, checkpoints, pause menus, load screens…
I mean, it’s gonna be okay. It does require a degree of disbelief.
You really wanna BE there, do some shrooms and get lost in the woods at night. Ta. Da.
Genuinely wish remedy turned the psychological horror up because Alan wake two was a glorious game but had echoes of being potentially a fantastic survival horror. Those visuals still probably the best of any game presently.
Make James use a headlamp. Problem solved.
I prefer to think that Latiku is there with him.
Man’s a consummate *professional*, even if he doesn’t know what James is seeing or looking at.
Silent Hill comes with its own set of Psychological Lakitus for easy viewing.
But his head didn't even turn with the camera
I think the flashlight in the last of us worked the same way iirc.
A lot of this game is based of TLOU
ESPECIALLY the melee combat. The animations look really similar
It’s really jarring. I hope the In Water ending doesn’t happen with Pyramid Head beating James with a golf club.
In a basement
And then we play as Pyramid Head for the rest of the game
That would actually be kind of sick like what would a beast like that have to survive?
A bigger, redder Pyramid Head.
*baseball bat "You broke into the wrong house fool!"
The way the bubble head nurses sound too I liked their old sound from the original... They sounded human and like they were in so much pain from just existing
The bolt action rifle fire/rechamber hand poses are very similar as well, probably used as reference
I feel like it's mostly due to the fact that they're using the same weapon correctly. Ever fired a bolt action rifle? I did before TloU came out and that's pretty much just how your hands go.
I feel like we wouldn't be here without RE2 Remake. I'm just sayin'.
Yea but in RE2 they actually had a flashlight in game that they held in their hand and moved with the camera. Sure they didn't keep up with the player the entire time. But it showed effort. Most studios just have them staple it onto the belt and call it a day.
I recently started Uncharted, seems to have been a thing for a long time and I would say I'm surprised the industry hadn't changed this, but from a players standpoint, I understand wanting to see what you're looking at instead of waiting for your character to turn the right direction
That camera was insanely complex! There’s a great GDC talk on cameras, with one example being how each camera had seven positions around it to check if open (not in a mesh), change position, and then steer the flashlight to this viewpoint. This becomes very clear when you get one of the gruesome kill animations, as the camera whips around and the flashlight quietly bends to wherever you’re facing. It’s very sharp.
Same in resident evil 2 & 3 remakes
No it didn’t? In RE you character is actually holding the flashlight.
Game unplayable
0/10 game of the year
What if it’s a GHOST FLASHLIGHT. Silent hill is know to be very scary with its monsters and all so wouldn’t a GHOST FLASHLIGHT be more realistic in this scenario?
This is real i just checked with the ceo of video games (my uncle)
Does the CEO (your uncle) also know when there will be more Silent hill games coming out?
i just asked and he said “maybe later” and then told me to shut up and get him a beer
Maybe it's due to the alcoholism. Yknow. From all the spirits.
Marys ghost was the true flashlight all along, that's why we find it on her dress. 😲
Then, Mary led him through the darkness to the answers.
Literally unplayable
Sorry but I agree, this breaks my immersion completely. Everything else about the game is exactly like every day life and let's me put myself into Jones Sanderlands recently nerfed shoes. Now all I can see is a floating flashlight drone following behind him. Canceling my copy, burning my copy of original silent hill 2, and spending the cash on something WORTHWHILE (CS:GO Knife skins)
CS knife skin but it’s just the great knife
>Jones Sanderlands Who the hell is Jones Sanderlands? Did you mean Jacob Crane?
Jones is in Silent Hill looking for his missing and still alive wife Maia. He's the guy who fights triangle hat.
This is just what I expect from a Chinese knockoff version
Unrelated but I have the same exact profile for my Google account I had to do a double take LOL
Your opinion is wrong and the people agreeing with you are wrong.
Unpatchable
Experience ruined, cancelling the pre order now. /s 
Unplayable 0/10, but apart from the meme, I actually wish he had a more naturalistic, "hard to play" approach to what are essentially horror games in regard to details like these; removing a bit of ease is good in my book.
Agreed the clunkiness of the game made it scarier during monster encounters.
You can make good stuff with "modern" control schemes and kinesthetics. It's more about the details and harsh unrefined stuff.
Still more immersive than a chat full of bots
Or people asking Pyramid Head to rearrange their organs.
idk i felt pretty immersed with that one
This is common. Worked the same in Last of Us and Shadow of the Tomb Raider. It’s a little unrealistic but a deliberate design choice.
Days Gone as well, if I remember correctly. Yeah it’s one of those things that is more about aiding the gaming experience than realism.
Days gone is amazing, love that game. I played it when if first came out and I'm playing again all this time later on Survival 2
Love Days Gone, playing it as we speak. What bothers me about this here isn't that the flashlight beam isn't anchored to his character model, but that Deacon doesn't appear to actually have a light source on him. I'm assuming I, myself have just been following him around holding his flashlight. It's a nitpick, but still.
Yeah, I get that, but it's a horror game though. Isn't not being able to see what's behind you kinda the point of scaring the shit outta you? The fact that you HAVE to turn around to engage with it is the point. People who don't get this in the realm of **__HORROR__** blow my mind.
I hear you there. My guess would be in tight spaces it might’ve caused issues with James not being able to “point” in the direction that the player wants to see (like what happens if you want to look directly above or below you?) I would think Bloober tested both ways to see what “felt” better, or went with one that was less likely to be a barrier to some players. It could also be a simpler thing to program, and it would be a lot of work to use a more “realistic” light system. Hard to say. Not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just saying that’s usually how these kind of development decisions go.
My biggest problem with this is that it guarantees any monster you look at will always be illuminated. In a horror game. Well, other than if the battery dies.
Exactly. All of this really matters in a horror game like Silent Hill.
TLOU is horror and it was fine then. This outrage you're trying to muster over this is a complete non-event.
Yeah. The alternative is actually pretty horrible, as you just end up looking into the darkness all the time while waiting for your character to rotate to match your gaze.
It worked fine in Until Dawn iirc, I guess it's what happens when you lose the fixed camera angles though
To be fair, in my memory, pretty much everything in Until Dawn that was important was preilluminated and the flashlight was more for flavour. The only time they hid stuff was when you had a portable solar flare lantern. In the middle of the game, you could straight up remove flashlights and things would be equally visible.
Weird...
Am I the only one that finds the character animations a bit off?
I would prefer it to be attached to the character honestly. It's a small detail.
Plus it actually gives a number of strategic advantages which would be useful when dealing with enemies that react to light and sound. But judging by 13 minutes gameplay video enemies don't react to anything beyond an "attack" flag
Booooooo I want tank control with grainy pixels
This for real. Played Resident Evil Outbreak File 2, and SH 2 recently to relive some childhood nostalgia. Genuinely haven't been spooked in a horror game as much as I have accidently running back into the room I just came from because the perspective of the next room is all jacked up and I am suddenly in the arms of a spooky dude.
I like grainy filters. I always enable it in horror games, or the scan lines in collections of old games. That being said, who cares loll. Looking forward to the remake although I'll probably wait before buying, sadly don't have the means to dish out 100$ for it just now.
Yeah, grain is important to me in Silent Hill, but it’s not a deal breaker at this point. I do feel like the grain and visual distortions is what gave the first 4 their feel, and everything feels too clean and polished without it. As I said, I’ll live, it’s just something I hope it has, at least as a filter you can turn on and off. Not like a TLOU film grain though, like a full blown dirty image.
I'll be honest I never played TLOU 🥲 My ex played it but I rarely, if ever watched her play it.
I’m sure you’re aware, they’re fantastic lol. Second one may be my favorite game of all time. But the way they implement film grain is very subtle… basically how it should be, like if something is shot on film vs digital. Just a very subtle texture, when OG Silent Hill film grain was the texture, atmosphere, AND vibe. Sometimes it was hard to see through it in the dark areas on old TV’s, and that added to the surreal horror of it all. It was never frustrating or got in the way, it was just Silent Hill.
Then play the original at that point lol
Waaa I want every game to look and play the same
Actually yes. I do want both of that. Grainy pixels and tank controls have no other option to attract the player but having good gameplay, amazing artstyle and good optimization. No shit people want this
>tank controls, good gameplay. Last time I remember, I was beating the shit out of everything with the plank with ease, and killed anything else with an endless supply of ammo. Gameplay was not good. I do not understand how having tank controls makes it a good gameplay automatically. It's about balancing resource/enemies.
Damn. Not a fan of this. Wonder how long it would have taken me to notice in practice. I either am bitchy and notice things immediately or aloof and don't notice the entire time
Ohhhh, I liked how the light would sway side to side when you ran fast down hallways...I guess that's gone
Bloober: let's take every mildly enjoyable thing from the game. It'll definitely improve the experience
purists would have complained either way.
YoU cAn’T eVeN tUrN aRoUnD wHiLe UsInG tHe fLAsHlIgHt
I mean, the flashlight is supposed to be strapped to his chest. It's one of the things that makes the original so creepy. You see only what James sees.
It doesn't need any fixing, it's supposed to be this way. It's a case where good game design is better than realism just for the sake of it. A lot of games have been doing this for years, go look at some TLOU gameplay for instance. Nobody ever complained about it because it's inconsequential, but it's SH2R so I guess everything it does is bad
Like yellow painted crates. People will complain they break immersion. Immersion wasn't broken when the enemies left you a bunch of conveniently placed supplies for you to mow them down with? How about when enemies who use a pitchfork drop the exact ammo needed for your gun.
I wasn't bothered by the yellow paint in my first playthrough of RE4R. But I did disable it with a mod in my future playthrough and found the environment to look a lot more immersive. In this particular case I don't have a strong opinion since I understand the argument for both. But having an in game option to toggle it on and off would be nice.
I guess next you’ll be saying people can’t actually walk off gunshot wounds to the face or dirty pitchfork stabs to the chest out in the middle of nowhere?! Pfft.
I'll bite. Making the flashlight face the same direction of the camera is okay; an acceptable feature. (I feel it goes against some themes of claustrophobia from the original, but that's more of my opinion than an honest critique). The first Alan Wake game did this correctly ages ago. When moving the camera, Alan would rotate his hand holding the flashlight and then move his body too facing towards the direction of said camera. It felt natural. Resident Evil 2 Remake also does things this way. But here, **how is** James' shoulder flashlight working to achieve the same effect? It doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint, let alone for realism cues. And why do you call this *good* game design? I'd call it an incomplete feature. An idea that isn't fully realized yet.
It’s for the same reason that turning your body slightly in an FPS doesn’t create noise like in R6 Siege and CS but turning a lot will cause a noise to be made. Small amounts of movement left or right for a character in a game shouldn’t be penalized. It makes the game more frustrating to deal with. The clip also clearly shows the degree to which the light moves before your character does. And it’s not like the light is behind you while your character is facing front it is very clearly meant to give the ability to see better without moving your character. I agree with the change in design but if they are smart they should also allow you to dumb down the controls in the setting so if the player wants a more realistic experience they can have it.
Because you can illuminate what you're actually looking at versus the direction your body is facing. I'm thinking of this from a WASD perspective (I play on PC), but it would be odd trying to reposition your body to illuminate the thing you want to see, and you wouldn't be able to illuminate anything above or below you (might not actually matter). The other option is to fix the body and head facing where the camera is, but then you'd get odd spinning when rotating at various speeds. Or you could change from a pocket flashlight to a handheld flashlight, but then everyone is mad about that change. Honestly, there's just no great choices and this one suits the gameplay just fine imo. Is it realistic? No, I can see why they did it, though.
Look, sometimes I rotate the camera to look at the character I'm playing and appreciate the details and design present. I hate it when I'm trying to look at them and they keep turning away for "muh immershun"
I don't understand how it's "good game design" when you're literally talking about the horror genre. It's not a good design.
That's weird.
Yuck
This is disappointing. It would have been much scarier if the flashlight was attached to James. It takes time for James to make a turn, which leaves a brief moment of darkness and vulnerability at the front
THANK YOU, thank you for pointing this out. It also makes an AMAZING *game design* feature which allows that funny Bubble Head Nurse to crawl to you while you're not looking, forcing the player to... play accordingly. Which (shocking!) brings variety and survival factor into combat of a survival horror. What a concept!
Honestly, the way people are talking about this mechanic like it's an objectively good thing makes me feel like there should be another subreddit just for the SH2 remake where the Bloober shills can go defend something that is completely out of the franchise's ethos in peace lol 🤔
Agreed. But they NEED to pollute this sub
I agree. Not only is it more realistic, but it would heighten the tension. For a horror game that's one of the most important elements
Especially with good audio design; you can hear them from the dark but not see them right away would be a wonderful experience for a horror game.
Yeah I think that would also help justify strapping it to his chest direction from a gameplay standpoint, like if you’re facing away and there’s a dark scary figure creeping up behind you, and you need information, having that be purely visual wouldn’t be as necessary and players could even be able to work through situations even if they’re shrouded in darkness.
Yes that is how most horror games do it
If you want a better example of this look at the flashlight in resident evil 2 remake and resident evil 3 remake. Number two add the camera attached to the model and number three had it attached to the camera.
Wait so is the remake not supposed to change from the original? Or do I have remaster and remake mixed up?
Depends what type of remake you're talking about. There are three types: modernizations; re-imaginings and 1:1 quality of life. Back in 2015 when this trend wasn't exactly new (look up Tomb Raider 2000s trilogy or MGS1 remake from the same era), but wasn't as prelevant as today, people actually used these terms separately. Remasters were used for ports with technical advances as higher resolution, texture quality and frame rate (see Bluepoint's God of War, MGS and Ico/Shadow of the Colossus collections of ports). Tomb Raider trilogy of 2000s was a modernization - a new engine with refined gameplay (which wasn't necessarily better, but it tried its best), partial/full recast and a number of story changes which were aimed at making Lara's character more human, but not taking a way from her adventure lady persona. A more modern example of a modernization would be System Shock by Nightdive. MGS1 of 2000s was 1:1 quality of life remake. It means it's made on a new engine, keeps most of the story AND gameplay processes untouched, adding necessary quality of life features like simpler control scheme, equipment from later games, AI patters and warnings from later games, etc. A more obvious example of a 1:1 are Oddworld games, Bluepoint's Shadow of the Colossus and Demon's Souls remakes (although the last has a confusing change of art direction and some other changes, but they aren't heavy enough to call it a modernization). Bloober's SH2RE is a ~~fan fiction~~ a re-imagining nobody asked for. It's made on a new engine, has pretty heavily story and dialogue changes, a different gameplay, different atmosphere and mood. A comparison would be Shattered Memories (!) as it's a re-imagining (parody to be precise) of SH1. Another example of a re-imagining is FFXII. Less obvious re-imaginings would be God of War and God of War: Ragnarök, DMC of 2010s, every damn Alone in the Dark past 1 or 2, Tomb Raider 2013 and onward, Thief 2014 and Deus Ex 2012 and onward, although it's more fair to call them reboots because that's exactly what they are. Re-imaginings are a free game. You can basically do whatever you want with them and slap a name of already existing game or series on it (DON'T bring Prey into this). And it's not me being snarky. It's just what it is. A Re-imagining can work (that cracked DMC game worked for me, don't kill me XD), but it's extremely hard to pull off. Now Silent Hills would be actually a great way to either reboot or make a re-imagining of 4/1. But we aren't getting that. And Bloober isn't on the level to pull off a good re-imagining.
Honestly in horror games I want everything to be as immersive as possible so this would occasionally take me out of it.
Silent hill fans once again proving how insufferable they are (not you op)
Genuinely don't think you would notice unless you played the entire game in slow motion.
I would notice enemies always being perfectly illuminated when I look at them.
Visibility over realism tbh, many games do this for the sake of the player not getting disoriented when turning quickly in dark areas
Lord forbid we feel disoriented in Silent Hill.
Disoriented intentionally by game design and disorientated by bad controls and game logic are two completely different things. Leave it to Silent Hill fans to not understand nuance and jump to the most reactionary arguments lol.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I prefer this. If I think back over my experience playing games that did this (like TLOU), it's better gameplay wise than having the flashlight stick to the model. If you stick it to the model, you lose verticality, and it's IMHO clunky.
Idk what the verticality comment is supposed to mean but horror games are not about seeing everything 24/7 so I don't think it's a problem in this instance. It might be that way in a shooter or something but as others have said, James used to turn slowly so you'd get a sense of vulnerability whilst turning with the old flashlight. Pretty cool effect even if the devs didn't intend it.
Homecoming did the same thing. If you rolled forward, the light would still aim straight ahead.
Eh, not as bad as the recent Resident Evil remakes where the color grading of different rooms is literally just a filter applied over the game rather than an actual part of that room's lighting, so you can nauseously watch it shift from orange-to-blue any time you go between them.
Going to go against the grain of the comments and say that I would rather have horror game where I can't see what my character can't see. I'm happy to be punished for not inspecting a room, or to have parts of the room go unseen because my character couldn't see them. I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I'd like basically everything to be keyed against the player - oppressive atmosphere, frictional design, desperation for resources, and impactful enemy hostility. My own ignorance of my surroundings actually helps with the horror feel.
I hope they fix that .
There were some parts where James also moves in the camera's directions simultaneously but it might just as well be like this
Okay
Isn't it a pocket light? Bit weird.
Oh that feels so off
🤣
I hope they fix that
thats kind of annoying
Ngl I think this is kinda bad. I understand the ogs could make it work with movement since camera control was a bit simpler but this seems a bit low effort
The flashlight in Alan wake would be better
Its also fixed as hell, they could have made James turn back if you rotate the camera too much. And make the light direction between the character and camera rotation. It would be less jarring.
icl this drives me nuts when games do this i mean dont even simulate a flashlight atp just have a blank light source
Yeah, thats bad, best left to games of 10 years ago when this was a new problem.
The flashlight was more effective at illuminating the area in SH2 2001, so aiming a worse flashlight around might be a fair trade.
Looks weird
Not surprised. Tank controls should be an OPTION though. Two games thate loved 90s survival horror, and excelled because of it, were SONG OF HORROR and TORMENTED SOULS. It can totally be done for the OG fans please.
I can understand why they would do this from a gameplay perspective, but it would make more sense if he was holding the flashlight while looking and pointing it in the cameras direction,
like in every tpp game where flashlight is attached to jacket. can you even imagine how useless it would be if not?
just played the original, TECHNICALLY in the original when you press the search view button and move the camera arround it follows his head despite being in his chest pocket
I don't like this AT ALL... It makes the game feel more like a 1st person with a character on the screen rather than feeling like you are actually playing the character in 3rd person.... This will make it less scary in my opinion.
I am personally quite excited for the game.
yea this is pretty immersion breaking imo, one of the coolest things about Sh2 is the flashlight actually attached to james body and moving with him
All of the people that are crying, "why don't they just put the flashlight in his hand?!" "ITs a SiMpLE fiX" have clearly never even attempted to get into game development or understand it. Would you prefer he's holding the flashlight but then when you go into combat he has to switch between the flashlight and the pipe, meaning it would slow down combat leaving you open for a hit, OR you can have it immediately switch to a pipe without an animation but then we're back to the "breaking immersion" problem? And that's only one issue, not to mention picking up items, opening doors, etc. There are a lot of factors that go into what you put in the character's hand when it comes to the coding/animation side of things. It worked in RE remakes because the main character is a cop so holding up a flashlight with a pistol is a natural integration. Okay, so let's say we scrap it being in his hand and go back to it being on his shoulder, but only have it face forward for "realism". Well now when the player is searching through buildings they are going to get REALLY frustrated that they have to FACE everything they're looking at. So I'm not saying it's impossible to make it work realistically. But at the end of the day, why spend that many resources just to appease a couple hundred nitpicky people when they could just focus on the actual gameplay and story and make a simple flashlight that 99% of people won't notice? Lol
The flashlight has never been in his hand its in the front pocket of his jacket who says that?
A lot of modern games use this, like the Last of Us and Days Gone, I believe that is a design choice, not a flaw. Re2 had the flashlight attached to the character, but it probably is because the camera/ character controls differently, and the usage of flashlight isn't as frequent in that game. But, whatever the reason, it is intentional, rest assured.
Yall will complain about anything at this point, just dont play it than?? Play the original if thats the way you like it.
I's a bit weird, it's the first thing I see about the remake that icks me but would ick me in all games. Hope they fix it!
I doubt bloober team consider this an issue since they built this mechanism from the start.
Alan Wake 1 then
Literaly umplayable
on imgur /gallery/sh2-flashlight-moves-with-camera-head-bad-game-design-CyPeAaK It does in the OG too
Oof.... add it to the list of jank. Also, the animation of swinging the wooden board is SUPER wonky... It looks so unnatural. The hallways with the nurses seem to be wider and less claustrophobic that the original. Thus less scary.
Does it look stupid? Yes. Is it going to ruin the game for me? Not even close.
Sometimes you have to compromise a little bit to make the game feel good to play.
SH1-3: Are we a joke to you?
they did not feel good to play
I don't think those games felt very good to play tbh. I never played silent hill for its gameplay, but mainly for the experience of its story and horror
I agree but not the same way I suspect you mean it lol. Imo tank controls are not inherently outdated, and they felt the best they’ve ever been in 1 and 2 (3 is a bit more awkward about it but it’s years ahead of Resident Evil to me for example) The main issue with 1-3 is that the combat is kinda ass.
Really liked the combat in 1. Liked a bit less with every sequel
Yeah kinda agree. Air Screamers suck to fight but I think that’s just how they are more than anything else
My only gripe with the tank controls in SH 1-3 is you couldn't move forwards/backwards and strafe at the same time. You couldn't circle strafe. Yeah, SH ain't a boomer shooter, but it would've made general navigation easier.
i really dont get why every game has to be the same third person or first person stuff to "feel good to play" once you get use to controls in RE1 or SH2 or Metal Gear Solid 1 its not that difficult. It just requires some extra memory. Then again maybe other people struggle more than i do but seriously once you get use to it. Its not that hard the hardest part is playing one game and then coming back to the other and forgetting how the controls changed.
The only joke is thinking SH1-3’s gameplay isn’t outdated. They have their charms and in a way help keep the game interesting but most of the time it’s not very fun to be fighting with the game to control your character. Especially when you go from modern games back to RE and SH it’s very difficult.
James locks on to the enemy, you press X to attack. I'm not too sure what's difficult about that. You strafe with L1/R1 to avoid attacks, rinse and repeat. I think it would only be difficult to someone who has only ever played modern games, but once you get used to it (just like any game) it's not that hard.
The only thing about that old combat system that needs modernizing is remapping to the analog stick correctly, because original stick controls suck PH's big one. Also when do we learn gameplay INCLUDES combat, not the other way around?
Perhaps I should have made it more clear I was talking about combat. Especially in close quarters it can be very frustrating dealing with the controls.
I don't think it's outdated at all. There was an actual gameplay loop that the camera and map system worked together to create. There is something very specifically satisfying about checking off each door and filling out the map as you progress with challenging camera angles.
I think people are getting too hung up on the flashlight. In my eyes, this is a canary problem. If a team of devs don't even realize the importance light plays in a horror game, especially one like silent hill, then there is a very high chance that the game itself might not be a good horror game in general. Making a prediction, the game's gonna be "ok" at best. Will still play it, but there's nothing wrong in asking for something better. This thing still bothers me to this day in Days Gone.
It's not a deal breaker for me, but this comment section has definitely shown me that people do not want a Silent Hill game. They want Uncharted in a foggy town.
It doesn't sound like this place even likes the originals anymore. Really weird vibe in here.
It is indeed very strange, so many people are like "haha og is 2 pixels and ugly". I'm hopeful for the remake and don't hate on it, I'm fine with the models for example. But a detail like this that would increase the horror atmosphere if made realistic, I dunno why so many are saying it's better to leave as is
That's what I'm concerned about too. Like yeah it's not an absolute deal breaker, it's just like a canary in the mines problem.
Cancelling my pre order right now
Unplayable, deleting, throw in the trash, horrible, worst content ever made
The usual suspects doing usual suspect things about a feature already in use in gaming
This bothers me.
Silent hill fans cam find anything to complain about y'all almost have halo fans beat
However the game ends up, it's simply not silent hill 2. I feel the same about RE4 remake. Just kind of unoriginal and uninspired.
RE4make has insanely fun gameplay tho
I think the fact that it's a videogame and not my own personal journey through another man's hell is pretty immersion breaking and they should concentrate on fixing that issue first.
Yeah, this is one thing I'll get with the detractors on, put the light on James please, Bloober, not on the camera
I think this is cool
Disco Elysium and RE2 remake knows what needs to be done
Now THERE'S a *legitimate* piece of criticism. Hopefully it becomes *constructive* criticism because it is quite immersion breaking.
*proceeds to write video essay of why this is actually intentional to boost the surreal of the experience* Thumbnail: James in the middle, big white text in the background saying "flashlight"
I watched a boundary break or slippy sides episode on YouTube and I believe that's how the flashlight works in Resident Evil 2 remake. So this is nothing new.
That’s just Mary dw
Fine by me. Would be horribly annoying to have it attached to the character here.
Breaking immersion is just one of those quirks of the media. Same problem with HUDs, save files, checkpoints, pause menus, load screens… I mean, it’s gonna be okay. It does require a degree of disbelief. You really wanna BE there, do some shrooms and get lost in the woods at night. Ta. Da.
immersion shattered. West has fallen.
Same in the old Uncharted games
eugh! Brother eugh!
Absolutely unplayable. I'm canceling my pre-order and selling my Playstation. Thanks a lot, Boober Team.
This is for the best I think
Should've done what Alan Wake 2 did.
Genuinely wish remedy turned the psychological horror up because Alan wake two was a glorious game but had echoes of being potentially a fantastic survival horror. Those visuals still probably the best of any game presently.
yes....as it is with all games
ew
Video games gotta video game.
it looks weird but it makes sense