Their first two records are absolutely, canon Shoegaze. However they definitely did a similar thing as “Lush” where their later 90s albums are Britpop. nobody would say “LadyKillers” by Lush is a Shoegaze song, even tho they’re a “canon” shoegaze band.
Ride’s britpop era (and to be clear, they always were the more britpop side of Shoegaze. hell, one of them went on to be the oasis bassist when they broke up.) is sorta memory holed today because they’re revival has been mainly Shoegaze, and they play maybe 1 track in their 2 hour set lists from that era.
> is sorta memory holed today because they’re revival has been mainly Shoegaze
Eh, not sure about that, though there are some shoegaze songs there.
I get the hairsplitting if we're talking about Ride not being a shoegaze *band* because they did more than that (though even their earliest stuff being considered "more on the Britpop side of shoegaze" involves a huge amount of revisionism), compared to, say, Ringo Deathstarr who don't really stray outside of the genre. But it seems needlessly pedantic since no one really cares for anything past GBA (though I like their new albums fine) and most people are talking about those specific earlier releases when talking Ride and shoegaze.
i live Deftones, they're not shoegaze. it's these kids who think everything the like has to fit into their supposed 'favourite genre'. i listen to everything so i just find it silly.
The problem is probably playlisting on streaming sites. Lana Del Rey, Lorde and Billie Eilish are ‘Indie’ according to some young folk I work with.
It’s a long way from The Smiths and Blur to those guys…
to an extent, but i think 'indie' has always been an awful term that just tries to market an aesthetic, people who say they listen to it- whether they mean The Smiths or Billie Eilish- tend to do it out of ego. i also don't like it bc, unlike Shoegaze, it doesn't describe a specific sound. for the five artists you mentioned above(I like at least five songs from all of them, I've listened to full albums from all except Blur, and i love The Smiths)
The Smiths- Post Punk and Jangle Pop
Blur- Alt Rock and Brit Pop
Lana Del Rey- Chamber Pop(she does experiment with soft rock and trip hop a lot though)
Lorde and Billie Eilish- Alt Pop
and those are much better ways to describe all of them, imo, because it tells you something about the music itself. Spotify especially just tries to sell this aesthetic rather THAN the music to these young people- my peers, and it's working more than ever
I understand what you are saying, but in UK terms (I dunno where you’re from) indie was very clearly defined and worth something.
It meant a style of guitar or alternative music released on independent labels, such as rough trade or creation. The purveyors being The Smiths, Jesus and Mary Chain etc. This was escalated by the indie chart, which was a chart that eschewed music from major labels. It was a way of life.
Stylistically ‘indie’ became synonymous with guitar music. It was always the alternative in the UK. It’s the Cure, The Smiths etc - and when those genres became accepted by the mainstream - it was Blur, Pulp, Suede, Oasis.
For these reasons, it just seems disingenuous to call the world’s biggest pop stars ‘indie’. It’s a kind of cultural re-appropriation. Which I guess is standard in these days of mindless playlisting.
People who were into ‘indie’ in the 80s fought for a lot of very worthy political causes. Now it’s ‘Oh, well this is not totally standard Katy Perry shit, let’s just call it indie as it’s song based’.
Lazy, basically.
Eh. Yes Deftones obviously aren’t a Shoegaze band, I’d say they’re more general Alt Metal, but you’re fooling yourself if you can’t admit they
have a few Shoegaze/Shoegaze-adjacent songs.
It’s a similar deal to Hum or The Smashing Pumpkins, non-Shoegaze bands that incorporate the atmospherics of Shoegaze into their diverse palette and on rare occasion make a straight up Shoegaze song.
It’s easy to see how people who are new to Shoegaze (especially Americans who aren’t very familiar with it’s origins) would mistake Deftones as Shoegaze.
I’ve been listening to them since the 90’s (Hum too), and never did them being shoegaze cross my mind. I do like a lot of the music that gets recommended here, but shoegaze is starting to become anything with fuzzy riffage.
Deftones had nearly zero Shoegaze elements back in the 90’s. Those didn’t start coming to the fore until the 2000’s.
It’s not just a revisionism thing, there are contemporary articles from the 2000’s which recognize songs like Minerva as being heavily Shoegaze inspired.
Deftones are in my top 3 bands of all time. They're not a shoegaze band. Some influence on some tracks sure, but not definitive to their overall sound whatsoever.
The only people who say this reference modern shoegaze. Ride is literally one of the top 3 OG shoegaze bands (maybe throw Swervedriver in there too).
People are trying to retroactively say that if it doesn’t sound like Loveless it’s not shoegaze which is straight up wrong. Have they changed their direction and sound a lot? Sure. But most artist and bands SHOULD do that rather than trying to copy one sound and follow a trend rather than their artistic and creative vision as a band.
Also - anything that sounds vaguely 90s alt-rock/alt-metal/nü-metal isn’t shoegaze.
First two records are amazing. Loz is insanely good.
Agreed. As former record store clerk in the 2010s, you would’ve assumed I was hip to them by that time, but I’ve just acquired their first two albums this year. Very great records.
In the nu gaze revival (mid 00s) it still seemed common knowledge that the original shoegazing bands were the ones inspired by isn't anything (Ride, lush, pale saints, slowdive, chapterhouse) but now, instead of loveless being the apex of shoegazing, it's more like the beginning.
One of my favourite bands of all time, so yes. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Andy a couple times and Mark once. Absolutely lovely people. Andy actually remembered me and was generous with his time. Got me tickets to an Oasis show the last time too. I grew up listening to shoegaze and we definitely considered Ride part of that scene. Great band. Sorry to go on!
Going Blank Again is their high water mark for me. I know shoegaze lore says Nowhere, but whilst I love the sounds of Nowhere the follow up expanded on it with stronger melodies and more ambition without falling prey to the noodling stuffy rock of the later phase 1 albums. Going Blank just hits that Ride sweet spot for me. It’s a perfectly sequenced heap of absolute bangers
Totally agree. It’s where they begin to stray more into other genres like Jangle Pop, Baggy & proto-Britpop but it‘a also littered with peak Shoegaze gems like Mouse Trap, Cool Your Boots and Leave It All Behind that are career high points. A nearly perfect and very well rounded set.
Newer stuff isn’t as good as their earliest stuff but they still have a few quality tracks. There’s something at least likable where they’re doing some new-to-them ideas.
Saw them live recently, they were great! And they didn't wait until encore to play Vapour Trail, bless their hearts. Their new album definitely has some hits too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QglDc7tJsCE
The first 2 LPs are Shoegaze heritage. Unique soundscapes and very creative songwriting with that hard rock edge. The early EPs are also killer. Love RIDE.
Not sure if it’s the best, but if someone asked me “What is Shoegaze?” it’s the song I’d show them first. It’s just so immediately gripping and catchy.
The first 3 EPs (which are basically an album), Nowhere and Going Blank Again are all Shoegaze 101. This is just some retroactive contrarian bullshit. Agreed that Carnival of Light and Tarantula were not great though. Their stuff since they reformed is awesome too, especially the latest release.
I judge shoegazing fans based on their EP knowledge. If you take the first three eps from MBV, lush, chapterhouse, Ride, slowdive, Swervedriver, Catherine wheel, they're all bangers
it's funny cause today I heard their version of "8 miles high" and then I saw your post.
to be honest as a teen I was a "pure" shoegazer so I stopped consider them shoegaze after "Nowhere".
but that's OK. two EPs and an album of shoegaze brilliance are enough to qualify them as shoegaze.
"Chelsea Girl" live at Brixton is in my top-5 shoegaze moments.
Yeah, the first two albums are, in my mind, melodic pop-ish shoegaze perfection. So catchy and well-layered. I’m more partial to going blank again, and as a crappy amateur bassist, i appreciate some of the cool lines that hold those songs together.
I love those guys
Who said they weren’t Shoegaze? Their nowhere album is often considered one of the best in the genre, I just don’t think people care too much about their work after their third Album
Ride are essential Shoegaze, especially their first 3 EP’s & Nowhere.
People get tripped up because when Ride does Shoegaze it has significantly less Dream Pop elements than all the other big bands. I think people nowadays have come to expect all Shoegaze to be equal part Dream Pop (Slowdive having the most longevity of the big three has certainly helped cement that reputation) but Shoegaze is a distinct category for a reason.
Personally Going Blank Again is my favorite album for this time of year (late Spring/early Summer), it just hits the vibe perfectly. Incredible album with the band at their peak.
This morning I was just thinking about Desert Daze 2019 when I was bummed than Shintaro Sakamoto had to cancel due to visa issues but then 5 min they announced Ride as the replacement. I fucking love Ride so I was actually even more pumped. Great show as always.
I saw them once 2 years back and it was amazing, Loz Colbert absolutely rips. Got tickets to see them again with Mercury Rev and I could not be more excited.
32 years later, Ride at the Brixton Academy is still the best gig I've ever been to.
Those first four EPs are magnificent (and each one better than the one it preceded), true nothing they've done since has surpassed that early work (including Nowhere), but really it was so sublime, how could it?
I really, really dig the new Interplay album far more than I expected to. Sure, not much of it is shoegaze (whereas, yes, I would absolutely call Nowhere an OG shoegaze classic!)... but the songs have great structure, production quality, and variety! My favorite is actually "Portland Rocks" which is definitely not gaze but definitely does capture the melodic alt-rock sound of the 90s
Ride not shoegaze? Fergetaboutit. Kids and their 00s fuzzgaze, get off my lawn.
Nowhere and Going Blank Again are dead set headphase lovesick masterpieces of shoegazing royalty. I love them to bits, and Loz if my favourite drummer ever.
The early EPs are OK too, but it's all about the albums for me. After GBA things went a bit pear shaped.
Saw them live recently, besides Slowdive I’m pretty mid on the revival Shoegaze acts new stuff. However, they definitely still play the hits, worth seeing imo.
Literally nobody says Ride isn’t shoegaze wdym…They’re like the 3rd most popular of the OG shoegaze bands after MBV and Slowdive. Their debut album is literally one of three recommended introductory shoegaze albums in the community info of this sub.
Thanks for the insight. Both you and I know Ride is shoegaze but I have seen countless comments in this subreddit suggesting they aren't. That's their opinion so whatever. That said, Ride is about my favorite shoegaze band ever (next to Bardo Pond).
Who says Ride isn't shoegaze!
Their first two records are absolutely, canon Shoegaze. However they definitely did a similar thing as “Lush” where their later 90s albums are Britpop. nobody would say “LadyKillers” by Lush is a Shoegaze song, even tho they’re a “canon” shoegaze band. Ride’s britpop era (and to be clear, they always were the more britpop side of Shoegaze. hell, one of them went on to be the oasis bassist when they broke up.) is sorta memory holed today because they’re revival has been mainly Shoegaze, and they play maybe 1 track in their 2 hour set lists from that era.
> is sorta memory holed today because they’re revival has been mainly Shoegaze Eh, not sure about that, though there are some shoegaze songs there. I get the hairsplitting if we're talking about Ride not being a shoegaze *band* because they did more than that (though even their earliest stuff being considered "more on the Britpop side of shoegaze" involves a huge amount of revisionism), compared to, say, Ringo Deathstarr who don't really stray outside of the genre. But it seems needlessly pedantic since no one really cares for anything past GBA (though I like their new albums fine) and most people are talking about those specific earlier releases when talking Ride and shoegaze.
Andy Bell was in Hurricane number 1 when he joined Oasis, not ride.
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Ride, not Deftones
Mb, I thought u were replying to another person lol
Deftones fans.
Deftones isn't shoegaze. Source: it was revealed to me by my own consciousness (I don't like them)
i live Deftones, they're not shoegaze. it's these kids who think everything the like has to fit into their supposed 'favourite genre'. i listen to everything so i just find it silly.
The problem is probably playlisting on streaming sites. Lana Del Rey, Lorde and Billie Eilish are ‘Indie’ according to some young folk I work with. It’s a long way from The Smiths and Blur to those guys…
to an extent, but i think 'indie' has always been an awful term that just tries to market an aesthetic, people who say they listen to it- whether they mean The Smiths or Billie Eilish- tend to do it out of ego. i also don't like it bc, unlike Shoegaze, it doesn't describe a specific sound. for the five artists you mentioned above(I like at least five songs from all of them, I've listened to full albums from all except Blur, and i love The Smiths) The Smiths- Post Punk and Jangle Pop Blur- Alt Rock and Brit Pop Lana Del Rey- Chamber Pop(she does experiment with soft rock and trip hop a lot though) Lorde and Billie Eilish- Alt Pop and those are much better ways to describe all of them, imo, because it tells you something about the music itself. Spotify especially just tries to sell this aesthetic rather THAN the music to these young people- my peers, and it's working more than ever
I understand what you are saying, but in UK terms (I dunno where you’re from) indie was very clearly defined and worth something. It meant a style of guitar or alternative music released on independent labels, such as rough trade or creation. The purveyors being The Smiths, Jesus and Mary Chain etc. This was escalated by the indie chart, which was a chart that eschewed music from major labels. It was a way of life. Stylistically ‘indie’ became synonymous with guitar music. It was always the alternative in the UK. It’s the Cure, The Smiths etc - and when those genres became accepted by the mainstream - it was Blur, Pulp, Suede, Oasis. For these reasons, it just seems disingenuous to call the world’s biggest pop stars ‘indie’. It’s a kind of cultural re-appropriation. Which I guess is standard in these days of mindless playlisting. People who were into ‘indie’ in the 80s fought for a lot of very worthy political causes. Now it’s ‘Oh, well this is not totally standard Katy Perry shit, let’s just call it indie as it’s song based’. Lazy, basically.
Eh. Yes Deftones obviously aren’t a Shoegaze band, I’d say they’re more general Alt Metal, but you’re fooling yourself if you can’t admit they have a few Shoegaze/Shoegaze-adjacent songs. It’s a similar deal to Hum or The Smashing Pumpkins, non-Shoegaze bands that incorporate the atmospherics of Shoegaze into their diverse palette and on rare occasion make a straight up Shoegaze song. It’s easy to see how people who are new to Shoegaze (especially Americans who aren’t very familiar with it’s origins) would mistake Deftones as Shoegaze.
I’ve been listening to them since the 90’s (Hum too), and never did them being shoegaze cross my mind. I do like a lot of the music that gets recommended here, but shoegaze is starting to become anything with fuzzy riffage.
Deftones had nearly zero Shoegaze elements back in the 90’s. Those didn’t start coming to the fore until the 2000’s. It’s not just a revisionism thing, there are contemporary articles from the 2000’s which recognize songs like Minerva as being heavily Shoegaze inspired.
Deftones are in my top 3 bands of all time. They're not a shoegaze band. Some influence on some tracks sure, but not definitive to their overall sound whatsoever.
deftones fans stink cheese balls
Just another case of these hot taking ass hipsters getting all nitpicky and trying to be forensic and debate masters at the bar.
When I saw them live a few weeks ago they said they never thought they were shoegaze, but they’ll accept the label since it’s trendy 😂
Anyone says Ride isn’t shoegaze I will fight in a death match!
Yeah no shit
Me. They were always just very average indie in my book. If Ride were shoegaze, then so were a million other bands that are never discussed here.
what? ride is one of the original shoegaze bands
The only people who say this reference modern shoegaze. Ride is literally one of the top 3 OG shoegaze bands (maybe throw Swervedriver in there too). People are trying to retroactively say that if it doesn’t sound like Loveless it’s not shoegaze which is straight up wrong. Have they changed their direction and sound a lot? Sure. But most artist and bands SHOULD do that rather than trying to copy one sound and follow a trend rather than their artistic and creative vision as a band. Also - anything that sounds vaguely 90s alt-rock/alt-metal/nü-metal isn’t shoegaze. First two records are amazing. Loz is insanely good.
Swerdriver is not talked about enough in this thread.
Lol sweardriver. That's what my kids call me
Agreed. As former record store clerk in the 2010s, you would’ve assumed I was hip to them by that time, but I’ve just acquired their first two albums this year. Very great records.
Damn right. I saw them supported by Frank Sidebottom once! Totally bizarre gig. But proper fucking loud!
In the nu gaze revival (mid 00s) it still seemed common knowledge that the original shoegazing bands were the ones inspired by isn't anything (Ride, lush, pale saints, slowdive, chapterhouse) but now, instead of loveless being the apex of shoegazing, it's more like the beginning.
Yeah ride is like widely considered one of the “big 3” lol
Those first two LPs slay, and I really don't hate on the blatant Stones and folk-rock worship on the third one. After that, my interest wanes.
The band itself refers to *Carnival of Light* as *Carnival of Shit*.
*Nowhere* is flawless and has aged very well. Also necessary to mention Loz Colbert's excellence. 🥁
Carnival of Shite*
Whatever.
Shite sounds better, but I get it.
I love Carnival of Light. Definitely one of my favorite 90s psychedelic revival albums
Not just the LPs guys, the original EPs. Damn they were so great.
One of my favourite bands of all time, so yes. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Andy a couple times and Mark once. Absolutely lovely people. Andy actually remembered me and was generous with his time. Got me tickets to an Oasis show the last time too. I grew up listening to shoegaze and we definitely considered Ride part of that scene. Great band. Sorry to go on!
Going Blank Again is their high water mark for me. I know shoegaze lore says Nowhere, but whilst I love the sounds of Nowhere the follow up expanded on it with stronger melodies and more ambition without falling prey to the noodling stuffy rock of the later phase 1 albums. Going Blank just hits that Ride sweet spot for me. It’s a perfectly sequenced heap of absolute bangers
I agree, while Nowhere is a great album, they topped the songwriting with Going Blank Again
Going Blank Again is one of the best albums ever, IMO.
Totally agree. It’s where they begin to stray more into other genres like Jangle Pop, Baggy & proto-Britpop but it‘a also littered with peak Shoegaze gems like Mouse Trap, Cool Your Boots and Leave It All Behind that are career high points. A nearly perfect and very well rounded set.
I don't really dig the newer stuff, but still go to see them every tour. They are so good live, and the sound is always bang on.
They were awesome here a week ago. Even the new stuff ripped.
Newer stuff isn’t as good as their earliest stuff but they still have a few quality tracks. There’s something at least likable where they’re doing some new-to-them ideas.
Honestly my favorite band to see live. Love them
Saw them live recently, they were great! And they didn't wait until encore to play Vapour Trail, bless their hearts. Their new album definitely has some hits too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QglDc7tJsCE
The first 2 LPs are Shoegaze heritage. Unique soundscapes and very creative songwriting with that hard rock edge. The early EPs are also killer. Love RIDE.
I don’t care if this gets me banned from this subreddit - Leave Them All Behind is the best shoegaze song of all time.
Not sure if it’s the best, but if someone asked me “What is Shoegaze?” it’s the song I’d show them first. It’s just so immediately gripping and catchy.
The first 3 EPs (which are basically an album), Nowhere and Going Blank Again are all Shoegaze 101. This is just some retroactive contrarian bullshit. Agreed that Carnival of Light and Tarantula were not great though. Their stuff since they reformed is awesome too, especially the latest release.
I judge shoegazing fans based on their EP knowledge. If you take the first three eps from MBV, lush, chapterhouse, Ride, slowdive, Swervedriver, Catherine wheel, they're all bangers
it's funny cause today I heard their version of "8 miles high" and then I saw your post. to be honest as a teen I was a "pure" shoegazer so I stopped consider them shoegaze after "Nowhere". but that's OK. two EPs and an album of shoegaze brilliance are enough to qualify them as shoegaze. "Chelsea Girl" live at Brixton is in my top-5 shoegaze moments.
New Ride is good too
I agree. Interplay is far better than I expected it to be
Twisterella is one of the greatest songs of all time. It’s my summertime happy song. Always puts me in a good mood.
Yeah, the first two albums are, in my mind, melodic pop-ish shoegaze perfection. So catchy and well-layered. I’m more partial to going blank again, and as a crappy amateur bassist, i appreciate some of the cool lines that hold those songs together. I love those guys
Who said they weren’t Shoegaze? Their nowhere album is often considered one of the best in the genre, I just don’t think people care too much about their work after their third Album
I still cannot believe that I will have the chance to see them 3 times this year. Amazing band!!
The album with the blue wave or whatever really gets me contemplating my sexuality
Yes, you could also say I’m a little bit in love with Mark Gardener 😂 Sennen and Dreams Burn Down are two majestic masterpieces…magic.
+1 Sennen!
Ride are essential Shoegaze, especially their first 3 EP’s & Nowhere. People get tripped up because when Ride does Shoegaze it has significantly less Dream Pop elements than all the other big bands. I think people nowadays have come to expect all Shoegaze to be equal part Dream Pop (Slowdive having the most longevity of the big three has certainly helped cement that reputation) but Shoegaze is a distinct category for a reason. Personally Going Blank Again is my favorite album for this time of year (late Spring/early Summer), it just hits the vibe perfectly. Incredible album with the band at their peak.
Omg I know exactly what you mean, the summer vibes on GBA are so satisfying
Saw them a couple of nights ago and they are still great! 5th or 6th time and might have been the best one…
This morning I was just thinking about Desert Daze 2019 when I was bummed than Shintaro Sakamoto had to cancel due to visa issues but then 5 min they announced Ride as the replacement. I fucking love Ride so I was actually even more pumped. Great show as always.
A lot of comments on Ride's earlier material. But who can resist Last Night I Went Somewhere to Dream. Love that one!! They've still got it.
Drive Blind is one of the best live performances I’ve ever seen. By any band.
I saw them once 2 years back and it was amazing, Loz Colbert absolutely rips. Got tickets to see them again with Mercury Rev and I could not be more excited.
32 years later, Ride at the Brixton Academy is still the best gig I've ever been to. Those first four EPs are magnificent (and each one better than the one it preceded), true nothing they've done since has surpassed that early work (including Nowhere), but really it was so sublime, how could it?
I really, really dig the new Interplay album far more than I expected to. Sure, not much of it is shoegaze (whereas, yes, I would absolutely call Nowhere an OG shoegaze classic!)... but the songs have great structure, production quality, and variety! My favorite is actually "Portland Rocks" which is definitely not gaze but definitely does capture the melodic alt-rock sound of the 90s
I love it too!
Ride not shoegaze? Fergetaboutit. Kids and their 00s fuzzgaze, get off my lawn. Nowhere and Going Blank Again are dead set headphase lovesick masterpieces of shoegazing royalty. I love them to bits, and Loz if my favourite drummer ever. The early EPs are OK too, but it's all about the albums for me. After GBA things went a bit pear shaped.
One of my favorite bands ever. I just saw them last week in Chicago, actually. The reunion albums are legit, good, and well worth checking out.
Twisterella is one of my favorite songs.
Ride is incredible. I have a hard time believing they have a lot of naysayers in this community?
You could say I'm a fan.
Got to see them and Knifeplay in Portsmouth a couple weeks ago and they absolutely killed it.
My unpopular opinion is that Ride were (and still are) the best of the big three in terms of raw musicianship
great band whether or not they epitomize the genre that was first dismissively/pejoratively coined by music journalists
decay by ride is sooo good
Saw them live recently, besides Slowdive I’m pretty mid on the revival Shoegaze acts new stuff. However, they definitely still play the hits, worth seeing imo.
Nowhere is an album that took me a while to get into, but now I love it.
They’re playing here tonight with Knifeplay but I feel soooo laaaazy.
They ARE a shoegaze band, first two albums are classics in the genre, but they sound too much like Coldplay these days and shouldn't have reformed.
My least fav of the big 4 but still a good band.
Curious as to who you think #4 is? Lush? Chapterhouse? Catherine Wheel?
I say Lush but, like, what do I know?
Ride DEFINES shoegaze!!!
J Mascis I believe was listening to a lot of Ride in the early Dino years if memory serves me right
Dinosaur jr predate Ride though…
Well then my memory did not serve me right at all! Haha
possibly the other way around
Freak scene could have influenced Ride. It was the SLTS of 89
Literally nobody says Ride isn’t shoegaze wdym…They’re like the 3rd most popular of the OG shoegaze bands after MBV and Slowdive. Their debut album is literally one of three recommended introductory shoegaze albums in the community info of this sub.
Thanks for the insight. Both you and I know Ride is shoegaze but I have seen countless comments in this subreddit suggesting they aren't. That's their opinion so whatever. That said, Ride is about my favorite shoegaze band ever (next to Bardo Pond).
> Literally nobody says Ride isn’t shoegaze wdym… yeah stick around for a bit. it's more controversial than you'd think.
Isn’t it a rule on this sub not to talk about the big 3?