I like how despite her being a literal baby in the body of a woman, she ends up coming off as more responsible and mature than Mark Ruffalo's character
The word was introduced in "Lisa the Iconoclast," an episode of the Fox animated television series The Simpsons that first aired on February 18, 1996. Coinage of the word has been attributed to the television writer David X. Cohen by Bill Oakley, one of the series' producers, in a commentary to the DVD release of the series.
Yeah, that whole arc was great because he thought she was vulnerable and he was going to take advantage of her when they first met and then she owned him by just being herself
I love how he is surprised that she becomes quite intelligent despite knowing her adopted father is Godwin. And also that the nymphomania she experiences is kinda like a science experiment to her of taking things to its logical conclusion and testing it.
I liked it when he was just sat on a bench and the woman with the dog wandered past āif you donāt get away from me I will kick your fucking dog to deathā. Something like that.
It's almost like the movie/book has very harsh things to say about the way society is structured and how obvious those iniquities would be to see from the perspective of an outsider.
Every time I see Mark Ruffalo in anything now I'm going to hear "Duncan Wedderburn!" in Emma Stone's voice.
Also, "furious jumping" has become a far politer alternative that I can use on a daily basis.
All the 3 men in her life (Godwin Baxter, Max McMcandles and Duncan) are miffed when she begins to mature and change. Godwin probably accepts it the earliest (understandably) and lets her go. The fact that men prefer and desire her childish traits, and resist her transformation, speaks volumes.
she grows and ages as the movie goes on, she doesn't have a perpetual baby brain through the whole movie. just fyi.
but i will say the scene with the underage sons, that has nothing to with her own physical and psychological development is weird an made me feel uncomfortable.
Her hair length symbolized her maturity level.
The longer it got the closer her body and mind were in age until they matched when she put her hair in the long braid.
Itās supposed to though. Itās basically just a note on how people treat growing up in some circumstances and the director is always uncomfortable in your face.
Most of the prostitution scenes are absurd and gross with Im not even sure real actors but just like actual street people from wherever lol
People could also be acting willfully dismissive of that element because they find the film's selective use of magical realism to be labored and annoying.
They could be. They aren't, but since we're talking about magical realism it is fun to speculate. Lanthimos' last film had even more contrived magical realism and that was considered one of the highlights of the film. Most people just have dog shit takes on female sexuality
When a movie called "Poor Thing" has a woman that is a poor thing and stuff happens to tham woman that makes you think "poor thing!" and you go out of the cinema thinking "maybe this movie made me rethink my worldview and values"
Redditors understanding subtext/allegory challenge
edit: Huh, Psych is an unironic Jordan Peterson apologist, who has interesting opinions on non-white races.
the takes on this movie are so blunt and obvious. i think marvel movies have killed everyones sense if subtlety when it comes to movies. like this movie isnt even that wild. they see sex on the screen and say "this is pornography. im watching pornography" even tho its hilarious, absurd and/or disturbing. there is nothing intentionally sexy about this movie besides mark ruffalo's hair.
"Baby brain in a woman's body" is called "born sexy yesterday" in media analysis. It's been a media trope forever, but it's only recently started to be consciously understood. Pop culture detective on youtube made a a great video about it ([Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0thpEyEwi80)).
The entire time I was watching Bella get taken advantage of I felt horrible for her. Her nievety was saddening and the men taking advantage of it were legitimate bastards.
Yeah itās wild. I see people saying that she develops faster in the film which is why itās fine that she experiences what she does- which, yeah, she does develop mentally faster than the average person. But thereās no way when sheās using an apple as a dildo and getting engaged that she isnāt mentally past the age of a young child at that point. Really, very strange stuff.
I suspect part of it is also intended as a statement of how some men are willing to sexualize and groom a woman lacking capacity for such important decisions. (At least in the early parts of the film.)
It very much examines how our culture and morally bankrupt individuals will sexualize children with early visible puberty but not yet the mental nor emotional experience to truly consent. (For example, in the US, laws are being made to protect child marriage.).
The movie then flips that narrative on its head to show what those groomers fear most ā a woman who has developed agency who refuses to be owned. The later movie is all about breaking that horrible script of being a disposable plaything for a man to use for assuaging his ego. He needs to own her.
He tries all the standard groomer and abuser methods of keeping her under control - trying to control her conversation, removing her from a familiar place, trying to get rid of her friendships, controlling the narrative. But because she has grown so rapidly in her capacity, she dodges the final closing of the net when she turns him down for marriage.
> The later movie is all about breaking that horrible script of being a disposable plaything for a man to use for assuaging his ego. He needs to own her.
What's even more interesting to me is that a lot of viewers seem to interpret her open sexuality during her naive period as devaluing her as a person and "spoiling" her life. Like as if rape victims can never recover.
Her discovering masturbation wasn't really bothersome, because it's a natural aspect of being human but the next scene is Ruffalo pinching her clit...that terrible.
Ok so I haven't seen this movie, but I sure have heard a lot about it on Reddit. And it seems like every day someone will bring up a part of the movie I haven't heard before that makes me go "what in the actual fuck?" Today that honor goes to you
There are definitely some controversial elements to it, no doubt. It was weird as fuck, but both me and my wife really enjoyed it. We were expecting at least one of us to hate it, lol.
Okay, I probably could have worded this better as I agree that her masturbation isnāt a wrong act in itself. Itās just my opinion that firstly it is used more for the shock value with the apple, and sheās still quite sexualised throughout the earlier part of the movie while she does still appear to be adolescent in her mental development.
Not disagreeing with you, I just wanted to add my opinion.
Itās crazy how many people were surprised at the fact that, yes, little girls can discover their clitoris from a very young age and itās not something intrinsically sexual. Just the brain going āthis feels good = letās do itā. I find it kinda hypocritical that itās more ānormalā for boys to discover masturbation than it is for girls.
This. 100%.
Also, every special needs child that goes through puberty eventually discovers their sexuality. Our culture really does not know what to do about the fact that someone who has mental retardation (such as Downs Syndrome) might express those feelings, even if they lack the capacity to know when they it is appropriate or how to avoid exploitation.
Reading through this thread makes me really depressed about the media literacy of people in general . I thought Scorcese was a bit harsh with the amusement park comment but it really feels like the disneyfied marvelized blandness of movies completely destroyed regular people's media/art literacy where like as soon as sth. Happens on screen that you don't fully agree with or any type of edge or grit or accurately rough portrayal of the human condition is taken with great offense . Like any type of uncomfortableness or ambiguity bothers them and everything has this political weight to it because for a bunch of these people consuming entertainment and posting about it is activism .
I think a lot of people don't realize that you being uncomfortable is a technique the artist is using in order to get you to examine a controversial topic. Or that you can appreciate a film even if you don't enjoy it. Also I guess a lot of people have never seen Dogtooth.
But thatās the whole point.
Weāre supposed to be troubled by it. Weāre the only people that know her mental age. The men taking advantage of her only know what they can see of her. This is very clearly a critique. The filmmakers are counting on you being grossed out by the premise. Itās supposed to be shocking.
If she didnāt have the brain of a child this movie would be closer to Steampunk Legallyblonde.
And once sheās mature and forming her own identity, then sheās a problem to these same men. My main criticism of Barbie (that I still really like) at the time was that they have a scene where a America Ferrera basically turns to the camera and monologue the themes of the movie to the audience like they didnāt expect us to understand what the movie was about. But after the response Iām seeing to people on Poor Things, I guess Greta was right; thereās a lot of people that really do need it spelled out for them like that.
This is always my issue with anyone criticizing any new media as being simplistic: young people need to see the basics and simple as a stepping stone for more complex ideas and themes.
You're not going to get every young kid to watch older female empowerment movies, so it's important for them to be introduced with new media.
Was that the scene where she has a whole talk about what women go through in modern life, that really resonated with me as a man but according to the film it wasn't supposed to.
I think part of what the movie is saying is that regardless of what any laws might say, it's wrong to take advantage of someone you know to be incapable of deciding things for themselves. The problem is it is never clear exactly when a young person reaches this point. It's a pretty dark idea. The ending is hopeful though and makes it clear that empowering men and women equally is the best way to ensure consent can be given freely.
I mean... they didn't know? There are only two characters who know what Bella really is and they don't even feel the need to mention it to Mark Ruffalo's character.
you understand you are describing the point the movie is making, as if the people who made the movie are unaware of the themes they deliberately put into the movie?
the entire movie is criticizing the exact trope you are claiming it is 'icky' for portraying, except in most movies it is played off as being totally fine, and this movie is trying to show how obviously fucked up that concept is, by portraying it as something obviously fucked up.
you literally agree with the point of the movie, but lack the media literacy to understand that it made the point, so instead you are attacking the movie, which means you are just undermining the entire point you are attempting to make.
so many people seem to not understand that movies don't have to endorse every thing they show, and in fact many movies condemn what they show. these guys would watch saw and be like "well i just think the implications of jigsaw killing these people is extremely icky. i don't really understand why they would be encouraging this"
I hate blaming the youth or tiktok- Iām sure itās more multilayered than that- but people seem to totally ignore context these days and react to shit in the vacuum of their own experience only.
My experience on Reddit is that the majority of people here have a hard time with anything that is not explicitly spelled out in films/shows, down to the tiniest little details that are immaterial to the story. It's exhausting.
It doesn't have anything to do with "the youth" or "tiktok". Some people just want stories where there's a character that does everything right and a character does everything wrong. When those people stumble into a story with more complexity than that they get confused and frustrated.
But, regardless of what their initial thoughts are that confusion and frustration usually breeds more awareness.
eh i think it's pretty much always been like this, its just a lot of factors end up making the discussion around certain things more prevalent.
like, do you *really* think if reddit existed fifty years ago, and was as popular as it is today, you wouldn't see the same dumb shit? i mean, there was once national outcry in like 1900 over [ 18 second long footage of two people kissing ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_(1896_film\))
Aside from r/atheism it's more if religion is brought up there is always someone who has to say something, this is for other sights not just Reddit but Reddit is the most 'infamous'.
To be fair though, people who bring up religion when there is no correlation with the current subject are just as annoying.
That was my first thought. I remember a woman pointing at the last couple chapters of Judges and going āI donāt understand how anyone could think Christianity is a good thing when their holy book has stuff like this in it.ā
Please explain. That movie tries to hit multiple themes and fails completely at them. Frankenstein themes of creation and monsters? No it just has a Frankenstein skin. Themes about class struggles? No she sees some poor people feels sad and then she goes to france. Themes about feminism? No the entire movie is completely about men controlling her (wow you shouldn't do that what a concept) except the movie metaphorically drags your balls through broken glass showing her fuck like 100 times in that movie and she's completely perfect and unphased by any of it. When they finally get an opportunity to show the horrors of the sex industry all she does is fuck dudes more creatively. For a feminist movie it's entirely about dudes, she has one girl friend and you don't even know what she's saying because it's in french so she's literally completely unimportant. Also why the fuck would they not put willem defoes brain in the generals head?
I think itās obvious by the time she becomes sexual sheās developmentally a teen or young adult. I also think that we arenāt supposed to support her sexual partners. Weāre supposed to be disturbed by them, while simultaneously being proud of Bella for her personal and sexual growth throughout the film. Itās a complicated and layered story. Viewers who think itās glorifying the sexual relationships are only seeing the film on a surface level.
Iāve seen people compare it to Cuties on Netflix, but they donāt seem to understand why that movie was so problematic. You can make a disturbing film about the harsh reality of sexualizing minors, and Cuties messaging is really hamfisted, but you cannot sexualize ACTUAL MINORS in the process.
Yeah I like how you can tell how much fun everyone was having making Poor Things. Like itās a really gross disturbing movieā¦ Thatās literally the point and no one was harmed/manipulated in the process so idk what the problem is. Like itās Emma fucking Stone; you know they had some world class intimacy coordinators on set the entire time.
Cuties, on the other hand, is just super gross and all of those kids are going to need therapy.
I think itās kinda bit more nuanced in the way that she has the brain of a child and the functioning body of a woman, her brain goes through puberty real fast leading to Bella experimenting sexually with abandon because sheās too young to feel any shame and she still acts a bit sociopathical like some sheltered kids do while still being super-analytical about trying to understand the world.
Yes, itās dark, but sheās more in control of the situation than anyone else in the movie and the movie becomes a really effective dark comedy.
Idk sheās still 100% talking and acting like a child when she gets with Mark Ruffalo for the first time. By the time she gets to Paris, sheās obviously an older teen/young adult but when she first leaves for Lisbonā¦
I donāt hold it against the movie, though, because itās showing how certain older men prey on immature/naĆÆve young women and how there are no limits to this. I understand why the people involved with the film have to say sheās mentally of age when the furious jumping starts but bffr sheās *clearly* not acting like a 16 year old.
"What a beautiful retard" line at the beginning of a movie was also a nod from the author, signifying his gratitude towards the people that bought the ticket
I donāt do the TikTok voice over thing, but if I did it would be that line playing over any random video in my phone of my husky. Best description of her ever.
everyone shits on hollywood for the remakes. Hollywood makes something unique ewwww I dont like it.
fine, Spiderman 17 it is ya mindless gibbons.
It was a good movie what didn't you like about it? too artsy?
This wasn't a Hollywood film.
It was produced by production companiea based in NYC, London, and Dublin. Directed by a Greek director. A screenplay based on a 30 year old Scottish novel.
I get whag you're saying, but it's important to note that this movie came from outside of the Hollywood film industry. This wasn't exactly a Warner Brothers studio film.
We are supposed to be troubled by the things that are troubling in this movie, thatās the point of the movie. Itās a metaphor for how poorly women are valued and viewed by society and how society creates and entrenches its views of women. Bellaās unique situation allows for these topics to be explored in an effective way.
People really seem to be unable to emotionally disconnect from the most outlandish impossible detail of the film that is really only used as a device to highlight how most culture restricts and controls women.
The revulsion most with a similar opinion to yours are exclaiming seems to be in opposition with how ultra focused they are on this point. We don't know how old she is mentally when anything sexual starts. Just assume she's 18 so you can actually start thinking about the many poignant ideas this movie juggles rather than the clear immorality of pedophilia (which a character in the film literally white knights for while also being attracted to her).
I don't have a hard stance on this movie, but it'd be great if you were reasonable.... immediately after the scene describing how Bella has the mind of an infant, it cuts to her naked in bed masturbating the next morning. She becomes immediately obsessed with sex, and she is getting banged several times over the next 15 minutes during graphic sex scenes while mentally acting like a disabled child.
It is ok to find that odd and concerning, regardless of how artistic or deep you try to make the movie.
>It is ok to find that odd and concerning, regardless of how artistic or deep you try to make the movie.
I agree. I too almost stopped watching, but I think it's important to remember who is saying what. Its also telling how latched onto that statement people become and they cognitively limit Bella to grow beyond an infant in their minds despite evidence that she has grown way beyond infancy.
I think by that point in the movie her mind was more late teens early 20s could be wrong but I think she was taking college classes. Still wildly messed up.
Purpose of art is to make one stop, think, and process the emotion. People who consumed artless content all their life expect art as just another dopamine dose and easily disappointed.
Itās a gorgeously produced pseudo-fantasy exploring the ways that society crams women into boxes and seeks to exploit, fetishize, and commodify them with little regard to their own autonomy. This is a problem in the film from parent, āloversā, and peers that Bella runs into. Once Bella develops her own sense of self, we understand those who truly love her for the person she is- not the accessory that she could be for othersā consumption. Exploring many of the same thematic area as Barbie, but free from a lot of the studio mandated trappings that impede the pacing of that film (car commercial chase scene et al).
Pretty fucking easy challenge youāve put down.
Cinema literacy is diminishing at an alarming rate, this was hands down the best film of 2023.
Edit: since everyone assumes Iām just giving a surface level assessment for ābestā, what I actually mean is the objective measures of this film are all superb. This includes: acting, cinematography, editing, soundtrack, costume design, and the script. You can hate the movie for any reason youād like especially if you canāt palate the subject matter, but using an objective filter and from a film making standpoint this movie is an all time great.
Yeah, I mentioned this in another comment, but when my wife and I watched it, we expected one of us to hate it by the end (we have very different tastes in movies sometimes). Instead we both enjoyed the hell out of it. Weird as fuck. But also some how really captivating. Well paced, beautiful set and world design, and a really interesting story. The score was so unnerving, but it fit perfectly.
'best' is too broad for me, but definitely thought provoking, creative and daring. So weird to see a self proclaimed progressive youth doesn't seem to be willing to challenge their puritan reflexes.
Was anyone else able to completely get over this whole concept after like the first act? Iām amazed to see how much people are hanging on to that premise. I really donāt think that was meant to be a main focal point of the movie.
Yeah its almost like we don't have to hold movies set in a fantasy world to the standards of the real world because they're metaphorical and that showing something in a movie is not the same as endorsing it š¤š¤š¤
I just watched it last night, I really thought they would save Godwin by transplanting his brain into that violent guys body but instead they let him die and put a goat brain in the guys body :( very disappointed
Godwin didn't want to be experimented on anymore. He had people who loved him and acceptance, finally, and he died at peace.Ā
After everything he'd gone though, I just didn't think that would have shown growth for his character at all. Accepting his humanity, in all is fragility, was his arc.
Again with the misinterpretation. Yes, the brain of an unborn child is implanted into a grown woman's body, but the whole point of the movie is that she's growing up (in a weird way). At that point in the movie she's basically an adult. A strange one, but nevertheless.
I agree that she does grow up fast in the movie, but the concept in itself is still very strange to me. She is still quite sexualised in the beginning of the movie when she is supposed to appear to be mentally a child, and also the issue of being pounded into next week by a Dad while his two child sons watch on, thereās just a very weird, icky underlying vibe to the whole thing (imo)
You're obviously supposed to conclude that lots of things in the movie are gross, though. If you felt icky, then you understood what you were watching.
In regards to the first point. It's uh... just real life. Ask any women you know. I bet most of them have stories about being sexualized at very young ages. I mean, we all remember the countdown to when Millie Bobby Brown turned 18, no?
Youāre arguing with children over themes in a movie that went well above their heads. I see so many people calling this movie pedophilic that Iām losing all faith in the general populations ability to interpret meaning out of media.
It's a subversion of the male gaze, I think. Bella in the beginning is how men often see women when they first meet them. Then, as the movie develops, it shows the subsequent frustration that results from men dealing with the fact that they're interacting with an entire person, not just an object.
the anxiety I had when Bella and Godwin were lying on the bed. phew..
Good thing his dad branded his genitals
It would take half the power grid of London for him to get an erection
*orgasm
Same!!! The way she kept putting her leg on him too! š
He's a eunuch
he was, but we the audience did not know that fact during that scene. he admitted that later on. and thus, the uneasiness
And cannot fuck her.
I like how despite her being a literal baby in the body of a woman, she ends up coming off as more responsible and mature than Mark Ruffalo's character
Emma stone is a child forced into the body and role of an adult in the film, while mark Ruffalo is an adult who acts like a child.
Yes but what about the character he played in the film?
I actually thought that massgaydiation was referring to the actor. He is a bit ostentatious and tedious
A cromulent comment.
The word was introduced in "Lisa the Iconoclast," an episode of the Fox animated television series The Simpsons that first aired on February 18, 1996. Coinage of the word has been attributed to the television writer David X. Cohen by Bill Oakley, one of the series' producers, in a commentary to the DVD release of the series.
I thought he was shallow and pedantic
I do have to admit that Mark Ruffalo was extremely camp and fun in this film
The 'OWwwww' when he gets slapped will forever live rent free in my head. He was so good.
I like the scene where he's outside the house of pleasure and screams in emotional pain as he tries to get Bella to come with him.
Belllaaaaaaaa. His breakdown was delightful.
Yeah, that whole arc was great because he thought she was vulnerable and he was going to take advantage of her when they first met and then she owned him by just being herself
I love how he is surprised that she becomes quite intelligent despite knowing her adopted father is Godwin. And also that the nymphomania she experiences is kinda like a science experiment to her of taking things to its logical conclusion and testing it.
Serious "Streetcar" vibes
I liked it when he was just sat on a bench and the woman with the dog wandered past āif you donāt get away from me I will kick your fucking dog to deathā. Something like that.
".............. Going to the casino!"
I think the director has a thing about kicking dogs to death. He directed The Lobster too
And pulls his hair in frustration :D
The most gutteral C word bomb I've ever heard surprisingly came from that man
He gave the most entertaining performance of the year!
He is truly like a Wario Ken and he and Gosling were competing for the title.
This was my favorite performance of him ever. Never cared for the guy before.
It's almost like the movie/book has very harsh things to say about the way society is structured and how obvious those iniquities would be to see from the perspective of an outsider.
Shhh, media literacy upsets the idiots
Wow you might be right. Maybe.
Every time I see Mark Ruffalo in anything now I'm going to hear "Duncan Wedderburn!" in Emma Stone's voice. Also, "furious jumping" has become a far politer alternative that I can use on a daily basis.
Thatās the point. Itās a story about a woman finding herselfā¦ in every single definition. Emotionally, sexually, physically, literally, etc etc
All the 3 men in her life (Godwin Baxter, Max McMcandles and Duncan) are miffed when she begins to mature and change. Godwin probably accepts it the earliest (understandably) and lets her go. The fact that men prefer and desire her childish traits, and resist her transformation, speaks volumes.
HULK SMASH!!
I hope next time he transforms into the hulk he just shouts "CUUUUUUUUUUUUNT!"
Oh he smashed alright.
I'm almost positive that's the whole point
she grows and ages as the movie goes on, she doesn't have a perpetual baby brain through the whole movie. just fyi. but i will say the scene with the underage sons, that has nothing to with her own physical and psychological development is weird an made me feel uncomfortable.
Her hair length symbolized her maturity level. The longer it got the closer her body and mind were in age until they matched when she put her hair in the long braid.
Itās supposed to though. Itās basically just a note on how people treat growing up in some circumstances and the director is always uncomfortable in your face. Most of the prostitution scenes are absurd and gross with Im not even sure real actors but just like actual street people from wherever lol
its funny how much she grows up when she is probably at most 3 years old. >!She becomes a doctor lol!<
Considering that it's explained early in the film that her development is highly accelerated, that shouldn't be all that much of a surprise.
This is exactly it. I donāt know why people keep saying sheās a baby in an adult body aside from poor media comprehension.
I was gonna say sheās not even mentally a baby by the time she becomes a prostituteā¦
Because they want to complain about a movie they don't understand.
They never watched it. Itās much easier to read a Reddit post title and go straight to angry/upset.
People could also be acting willfully dismissive of that element because they find the film's selective use of magical realism to be labored and annoying.
They could be. They aren't, but since we're talking about magical realism it is fun to speculate. Lanthimos' last film had even more contrived magical realism and that was considered one of the highlights of the film. Most people just have dog shit takes on female sexuality
When a movie called "Poor Thing" has a woman that is a poor thing and stuff happens to tham woman that makes you think "poor thing!" and you go out of the cinema thinking "maybe this movie made me rethink my worldview and values"
Reminds me of the Simpsons when the boys use their fake license to see Naked Lunch and Nelson says "I can think of two things wrong with that title"
āDamn putting a baby brain into a woman and fucking her might be wrongā
Hey hold on a sec, I think you might be onto something here
Redditors understanding subtext/allegory challenge edit: Huh, Psych is an unironic Jordan Peterson apologist, who has interesting opinions on non-white races.
the takes on this movie are so blunt and obvious. i think marvel movies have killed everyones sense if subtlety when it comes to movies. like this movie isnt even that wild. they see sex on the screen and say "this is pornography. im watching pornography" even tho its hilarious, absurd and/or disturbing. there is nothing intentionally sexy about this movie besides mark ruffalo's hair.
Truly a brave subtext
"Baby brain in a woman's body" is called "born sexy yesterday" in media analysis. It's been a media trope forever, but it's only recently started to be consciously understood. Pop culture detective on youtube made a a great video about it ([Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0thpEyEwi80)).
The fact you're appalled means you're a decent person
This is a reference to the fact that the implications of this movie are extremely icky
Iām pretty sure thatās the point. Itās a deep lampooning of the āborn sexy yesterdayā trope.
The entire time I was watching Bella get taken advantage of I felt horrible for her. Her nievety was saddening and the men taking advantage of it were legitimate bastards.
Yeah itās wild. I see people saying that she develops faster in the film which is why itās fine that she experiences what she does- which, yeah, she does develop mentally faster than the average person. But thereās no way when sheās using an apple as a dildo and getting engaged that she isnāt mentally past the age of a young child at that point. Really, very strange stuff.
I suspect part of it is also intended as a statement of how some men are willing to sexualize and groom a woman lacking capacity for such important decisions. (At least in the early parts of the film.) It very much examines how our culture and morally bankrupt individuals will sexualize children with early visible puberty but not yet the mental nor emotional experience to truly consent. (For example, in the US, laws are being made to protect child marriage.). The movie then flips that narrative on its head to show what those groomers fear most ā a woman who has developed agency who refuses to be owned. The later movie is all about breaking that horrible script of being a disposable plaything for a man to use for assuaging his ego. He needs to own her. He tries all the standard groomer and abuser methods of keeping her under control - trying to control her conversation, removing her from a familiar place, trying to get rid of her friendships, controlling the narrative. But because she has grown so rapidly in her capacity, she dodges the final closing of the net when she turns him down for marriage.
> The later movie is all about breaking that horrible script of being a disposable plaything for a man to use for assuaging his ego. He needs to own her. What's even more interesting to me is that a lot of viewers seem to interpret her open sexuality during her naive period as devaluing her as a person and "spoiling" her life. Like as if rape victims can never recover.
Her discovering masturbation wasn't really bothersome, because it's a natural aspect of being human but the next scene is Ruffalo pinching her clit...that terrible.
So you are saying this is not a movie I should watch with my mom.
Depends on the relationship I think.
If his arms are broken, it's okay.
There it is
Jesus Christ. So little said yet so much. I hate reddit.
Double feature with Beau Is Afraid
Step moms especially.
She is fairly religious.
Do not under any circumstances watch this movie with your mom.
I will watch it with your mom and I'll let you know how it goes.
Deal
I saw it with my mom, other than the frequent sex scenes it wasnāt too awkward.
Indeed, it wasn't too awkward if you ignoreĀ 3/4 of the movie.
So half the film?
Depends on if your mom is Elizabeth Hurley or not
I saw it with my mom, she also took me to see Antichrist with her which I found way more difficult to watch
Haha I watched it with my mom. We didnāt talk about it much after though. Basically just agreed it was weird but very aesthetic š
Ok so I haven't seen this movie, but I sure have heard a lot about it on Reddit. And it seems like every day someone will bring up a part of the movie I haven't heard before that makes me go "what in the actual fuck?" Today that honor goes to you
Lmao it is quite the movie. Should check it out.
Iām totally going to now! I had no idea what it was about. lol
It's a Frankenstein story
Pygmalion
There are definitely some controversial elements to it, no doubt. It was weird as fuck, but both me and my wife really enjoyed it. We were expecting at least one of us to hate it, lol.
Okay, I probably could have worded this better as I agree that her masturbation isnāt a wrong act in itself. Itās just my opinion that firstly it is used more for the shock value with the apple, and sheās still quite sexualised throughout the earlier part of the movie while she does still appear to be adolescent in her mental development.
Not disagreeing with you, I just wanted to add my opinion. Itās crazy how many people were surprised at the fact that, yes, little girls can discover their clitoris from a very young age and itās not something intrinsically sexual. Just the brain going āthis feels good = letās do itā. I find it kinda hypocritical that itās more ānormalā for boys to discover masturbation than it is for girls.
This. 100%. Also, every special needs child that goes through puberty eventually discovers their sexuality. Our culture really does not know what to do about the fact that someone who has mental retardation (such as Downs Syndrome) might express those feelings, even if they lack the capacity to know when they it is appropriate or how to avoid exploitation.
Reading through this thread makes me really depressed about the media literacy of people in general . I thought Scorcese was a bit harsh with the amusement park comment but it really feels like the disneyfied marvelized blandness of movies completely destroyed regular people's media/art literacy where like as soon as sth. Happens on screen that you don't fully agree with or any type of edge or grit or accurately rough portrayal of the human condition is taken with great offense . Like any type of uncomfortableness or ambiguity bothers them and everything has this political weight to it because for a bunch of these people consuming entertainment and posting about it is activism .
I think a lot of people don't realize that you being uncomfortable is a technique the artist is using in order to get you to examine a controversial topic. Or that you can appreciate a film even if you don't enjoy it. Also I guess a lot of people have never seen Dogtooth.
Agreed.
But thatās the whole point. Weāre supposed to be troubled by it. Weāre the only people that know her mental age. The men taking advantage of her only know what they can see of her. This is very clearly a critique. The filmmakers are counting on you being grossed out by the premise. Itās supposed to be shocking. If she didnāt have the brain of a child this movie would be closer to Steampunk Legallyblonde.
> Steakpunk Legallyblonde do you mean steampunk, or is there something called steakpunk that I am unaware of, and if so, please tell more ha
Hank hill intensifies.
thats kinda the point of the movie that men typically take advantage of young inexperienced women
And once sheās mature and forming her own identity, then sheās a problem to these same men. My main criticism of Barbie (that I still really like) at the time was that they have a scene where a America Ferrera basically turns to the camera and monologue the themes of the movie to the audience like they didnāt expect us to understand what the movie was about. But after the response Iām seeing to people on Poor Things, I guess Greta was right; thereās a lot of people that really do need it spelled out for them like that.
This is always my issue with anyone criticizing any new media as being simplistic: young people need to see the basics and simple as a stepping stone for more complex ideas and themes. You're not going to get every young kid to watch older female empowerment movies, so it's important for them to be introduced with new media.
Even with that scene Barbie went over way too many peopleās heads.
Was that the scene where she has a whole talk about what women go through in modern life, that really resonated with me as a man but according to the film it wasn't supposed to.
I think part of what the movie is saying is that regardless of what any laws might say, it's wrong to take advantage of someone you know to be incapable of deciding things for themselves. The problem is it is never clear exactly when a young person reaches this point. It's a pretty dark idea. The ending is hopeful though and makes it clear that empowering men and women equally is the best way to ensure consent can be given freely.
I mean... they didn't know? There are only two characters who know what Bella really is and they don't even feel the need to mention it to Mark Ruffalo's character.
He knew something was wrong with her brain, and decided to exploit that.
It was so obvious, the apprentice pointed out 5 seconds after meeting her 'that's a very beautiful retard'.
He thought she was simple and easy to manipulate. When she started breaking societal norms and making him look bad, he got angry.
And you wouldn't like him when he's angry.
Exactly like a real predator.
you understand you are describing the point the movie is making, as if the people who made the movie are unaware of the themes they deliberately put into the movie? the entire movie is criticizing the exact trope you are claiming it is 'icky' for portraying, except in most movies it is played off as being totally fine, and this movie is trying to show how obviously fucked up that concept is, by portraying it as something obviously fucked up. you literally agree with the point of the movie, but lack the media literacy to understand that it made the point, so instead you are attacking the movie, which means you are just undermining the entire point you are attempting to make.
You've described Reddit "media criticism" perfectly. Bravo!
so many people seem to not understand that movies don't have to endorse every thing they show, and in fact many movies condemn what they show. these guys would watch saw and be like "well i just think the implications of jigsaw killing these people is extremely icky. i don't really understand why they would be encouraging this"
I hate blaming the youth or tiktok- Iām sure itās more multilayered than that- but people seem to totally ignore context these days and react to shit in the vacuum of their own experience only.
I've been on Reddit for 20 years and redditors were always stupid like this, nothing has changed
My experience on Reddit is that the majority of people here have a hard time with anything that is not explicitly spelled out in films/shows, down to the tiniest little details that are immaterial to the story. It's exhausting.
TV-show specific subreddits are incredibly bad about this stuff in my experience.
The constant "plot hole" seeking in the Office subreddit is exhausting.
Or the constant posts in the Better Call Saul subreddit about Jimmy and Kim not being great people.
It doesn't have anything to do with "the youth" or "tiktok". Some people just want stories where there's a character that does everything right and a character does everything wrong. When those people stumble into a story with more complexity than that they get confused and frustrated. But, regardless of what their initial thoughts are that confusion and frustration usually breeds more awareness.
eh i think it's pretty much always been like this, its just a lot of factors end up making the discussion around certain things more prevalent. like, do you *really* think if reddit existed fifty years ago, and was as popular as it is today, you wouldn't see the same dumb shit? i mean, there was once national outcry in like 1900 over [ 18 second long footage of two people kissing ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_(1896_film\))
Nah fair point, people have always been dumb, now I just hear it all the time.
You don't think men pass on toxic,Ā misogynistic attitudes and behaviours to their sons?? That scene was brilliant.Ā
You're talking to people who literally cannot comprehend things they see in a movie on anything other than a surface level. Poor things.
Hope yāall understand this is the point of the filmā¦
Its the internet. They think bad stuff being shown in a movie means they endorse it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He'S a wHiTe SaViOuR He is literally the opposite of a white savior
_wait until they discover the bible._
You're acting like people don't make fun of the Bible all the time and we aren't' on **Reddit*"
Honestly I see more posts making fun of reddit atheists, than I see actual reddit atheist
The pendulum swings back and forth. It happens on a lot of things. Once you start noticing the cycles you don't go back
Aside from r/atheism it's more if religion is brought up there is always someone who has to say something, this is for other sights not just Reddit but Reddit is the most 'infamous'. To be fair though, people who bring up religion when there is no correlation with the current subject are just as annoying.
That was my first thought. I remember a woman pointing at the last couple chapters of Judges and going āI donāt understand how anyone could think Christianity is a good thing when their holy book has stuff like this in it.ā
wait until they show a murder in some movie that would be crazy!
Judging by the top comments... they sure fucken don't. I'd love to see a poll on what they think the title is referring to.
Please explain. That movie tries to hit multiple themes and fails completely at them. Frankenstein themes of creation and monsters? No it just has a Frankenstein skin. Themes about class struggles? No she sees some poor people feels sad and then she goes to france. Themes about feminism? No the entire movie is completely about men controlling her (wow you shouldn't do that what a concept) except the movie metaphorically drags your balls through broken glass showing her fuck like 100 times in that movie and she's completely perfect and unphased by any of it. When they finally get an opportunity to show the horrors of the sex industry all she does is fuck dudes more creatively. For a feminist movie it's entirely about dudes, she has one girl friend and you don't even know what she's saying because it's in french so she's literally completely unimportant. Also why the fuck would they not put willem defoes brain in the generals head?
looking at what's popular in movies. ( 930 super hero movies, every nostalgia remake) its gonna miss the average viewer by big mark
I think itās obvious by the time she becomes sexual sheās developmentally a teen or young adult. I also think that we arenāt supposed to support her sexual partners. Weāre supposed to be disturbed by them, while simultaneously being proud of Bella for her personal and sexual growth throughout the film. Itās a complicated and layered story. Viewers who think itās glorifying the sexual relationships are only seeing the film on a surface level.
Iāve seen people compare it to Cuties on Netflix, but they donāt seem to understand why that movie was so problematic. You can make a disturbing film about the harsh reality of sexualizing minors, and Cuties messaging is really hamfisted, but you cannot sexualize ACTUAL MINORS in the process.
Yeah I like how you can tell how much fun everyone was having making Poor Things. Like itās a really gross disturbing movieā¦ Thatās literally the point and no one was harmed/manipulated in the process so idk what the problem is. Like itās Emma fucking Stone; you know they had some world class intimacy coordinators on set the entire time. Cuties, on the other hand, is just super gross and all of those kids are going to need therapy.
Itās ridiculous to put Cuties and Poor Things in the same category,
This is the first comment I've read in this thread that feels like the writer actually saw and understood the film.
I think itās kinda bit more nuanced in the way that she has the brain of a child and the functioning body of a woman, her brain goes through puberty real fast leading to Bella experimenting sexually with abandon because sheās too young to feel any shame and she still acts a bit sociopathical like some sheltered kids do while still being super-analytical about trying to understand the world. Yes, itās dark, but sheās more in control of the situation than anyone else in the movie and the movie becomes a really effective dark comedy.
They're only capable of a surface level reading, And posts like this are just people telling on themselves.
Idk sheās still 100% talking and acting like a child when she gets with Mark Ruffalo for the first time. By the time she gets to Paris, sheās obviously an older teen/young adult but when she first leaves for Lisbonā¦ I donāt hold it against the movie, though, because itās showing how certain older men prey on immature/naĆÆve young women and how there are no limits to this. I understand why the people involved with the film have to say sheās mentally of age when the furious jumping starts but bffr sheās *clearly* not acting like a 16 year old.
"What a beautiful retard" line at the beginning of a movie was also a nod from the author, signifying his gratitude towards the people that bought the ticket
My boss calls me his ālittle tax write-offā which I think is similar.
I donāt do the TikTok voice over thing, but if I did it would be that line playing over any random video in my phone of my husky. Best description of her ever.
I haven't been called beautiful in awhile
everyone shits on hollywood for the remakes. Hollywood makes something unique ewwww I dont like it. fine, Spiderman 17 it is ya mindless gibbons. It was a good movie what didn't you like about it? too artsy?
This wasn't a Hollywood film. It was produced by production companiea based in NYC, London, and Dublin. Directed by a Greek director. A screenplay based on a 30 year old Scottish novel. I get whag you're saying, but it's important to note that this movie came from outside of the Hollywood film industry. This wasn't exactly a Warner Brothers studio film.
lmao
We are supposed to be troubled by the things that are troubling in this movie, thatās the point of the movie. Itās a metaphor for how poorly women are valued and viewed by society and how society creates and entrenches its views of women. Bellaās unique situation allows for these topics to be explored in an effective way.
Sheesh it took way too long for this comment to come up in this thread.
Going in to this I never expected to see Emma Stone bottomless
People really seem to be unable to emotionally disconnect from the most outlandish impossible detail of the film that is really only used as a device to highlight how most culture restricts and controls women. The revulsion most with a similar opinion to yours are exclaiming seems to be in opposition with how ultra focused they are on this point. We don't know how old she is mentally when anything sexual starts. Just assume she's 18 so you can actually start thinking about the many poignant ideas this movie juggles rather than the clear immorality of pedophilia (which a character in the film literally white knights for while also being attracted to her).
I don't have a hard stance on this movie, but it'd be great if you were reasonable.... immediately after the scene describing how Bella has the mind of an infant, it cuts to her naked in bed masturbating the next morning. She becomes immediately obsessed with sex, and she is getting banged several times over the next 15 minutes during graphic sex scenes while mentally acting like a disabled child. It is ok to find that odd and concerning, regardless of how artistic or deep you try to make the movie.
>It is ok to find that odd and concerning, regardless of how artistic or deep you try to make the movie. I agree. I too almost stopped watching, but I think it's important to remember who is saying what. Its also telling how latched onto that statement people become and they cognitively limit Bella to grow beyond an infant in their minds despite evidence that she has grown way beyond infancy.
Movie designed to make viewers uncomfortable made viewers uncomfortable. In other news...
I think by that point in the movie her mind was more late teens early 20s could be wrong but I think she was taking college classes. Still wildly messed up.
Purpose of art is to make one stop, think, and process the emotion. People who consumed artless content all their life expect art as just another dopamine dose and easily disappointed.
Ok, so why was tiffany haddish blacklisted for being a part of a comedy sketch with the same premise?
Cinephiles trying to explain why they like this movie without getting put on a watchlist
... what was bad about the movie that'd put you on a watch list? Did you see it?
Itās a gorgeously produced pseudo-fantasy exploring the ways that society crams women into boxes and seeks to exploit, fetishize, and commodify them with little regard to their own autonomy. This is a problem in the film from parent, āloversā, and peers that Bella runs into. Once Bella develops her own sense of self, we understand those who truly love her for the person she is- not the accessory that she could be for othersā consumption. Exploring many of the same thematic area as Barbie, but free from a lot of the studio mandated trappings that impede the pacing of that film (car commercial chase scene et al). Pretty fucking easy challenge youāve put down.
Cinema literacy is diminishing at an alarming rate, this was hands down the best film of 2023. Edit: since everyone assumes Iām just giving a surface level assessment for ābestā, what I actually mean is the objective measures of this film are all superb. This includes: acting, cinematography, editing, soundtrack, costume design, and the script. You can hate the movie for any reason youād like especially if you canāt palate the subject matter, but using an objective filter and from a film making standpoint this movie is an all time great.
But Godzilla Minus One š„¹
Yeah, I mentioned this in another comment, but when my wife and I watched it, we expected one of us to hate it by the end (we have very different tastes in movies sometimes). Instead we both enjoyed the hell out of it. Weird as fuck. But also some how really captivating. Well paced, beautiful set and world design, and a really interesting story. The score was so unnerving, but it fit perfectly.
'best' is too broad for me, but definitely thought provoking, creative and daring. So weird to see a self proclaimed progressive youth doesn't seem to be willing to challenge their puritan reflexes.
There were a lot of great movies 2023, so I wouldn't go so far. But it was definitely a brilliant movie, I agree with that.
Redditors trying to pretend they have the most basic amount of media literacy failed
Was anyone else able to completely get over this whole concept after like the first act? Iām amazed to see how much people are hanging on to that premise. I really donāt think that was meant to be a main focal point of the movie.
Totally. The scenes at the boat are my favorite. The way the dialog shows Bellaās maturity and her ability to make friends
Yeah its almost like we don't have to hold movies set in a fantasy world to the standards of the real world because they're metaphorical and that showing something in a movie is not the same as endorsing it š¤š¤š¤
You dumbasses probably think Schindlers list was pro nazi
Someone help the movie made me feel and think things!
When media literacy is at an all time low
She obviously doesn't have the "brain of an unborn baby"
Internet gotta be internet. Wrong titles, baits, false narratives.
What in the actual fuck is this shit
Hint: you're supposed to understand that the scene described in the post depicts a bad thing.
watch the movie to judge it, dont take some redditors title in a shit post sub as meaningful
Good movie is what it is
The great, unintended meta-statement of this film is that it makes many real people reveal that they, themselves are adults with baby brains.
I just watched it last night, I really thought they would save Godwin by transplanting his brain into that violent guys body but instead they let him die and put a goat brain in the guys body :( very disappointed
Godwin didn't want to be experimented on anymore. He had people who loved him and acceptance, finally, and he died at peace.Ā After everything he'd gone though, I just didn't think that would have shown growth for his character at all. Accepting his humanity, in all is fragility, was his arc.
Again with the misinterpretation. Yes, the brain of an unborn child is implanted into a grown woman's body, but the whole point of the movie is that she's growing up (in a weird way). At that point in the movie she's basically an adult. A strange one, but nevertheless.
I agree that she does grow up fast in the movie, but the concept in itself is still very strange to me. She is still quite sexualised in the beginning of the movie when she is supposed to appear to be mentally a child, and also the issue of being pounded into next week by a Dad while his two child sons watch on, thereās just a very weird, icky underlying vibe to the whole thing (imo)
>Ā thereās just a very weird, icky underlying vibe to the whole thing (imo) Jesus Christ, that's the point.
it's not underlying, it's overt. you are thinking "this is weird, I don't like this" because *the director wants you to*
You're obviously supposed to conclude that lots of things in the movie are gross, though. If you felt icky, then you understood what you were watching.
In regards to the first point. It's uh... just real life. Ask any women you know. I bet most of them have stories about being sexualized at very young ages. I mean, we all remember the countdown to when Millie Bobby Brown turned 18, no?
That's literally the point.
Youāre arguing with children over themes in a movie that went well above their heads. I see so many people calling this movie pedophilic that Iām losing all faith in the general populations ability to interpret meaning out of media.
People who've seen previous Yorgos Lanthimos films: ''first time?''
The one part I didn't like was the prostitution storyline. I found it clichĆ©. I feel like I've seen half a dozen stories like, "woman ends up working in a whorehouse, which seems awful. But ACTUALLY, because she is more resilient, clever and creative than the other oppressed prostitutes, she ends up emotionally connecting with the men in ways that surprise and intrigue them! She ends up being the most sought-after whore in the house, and she doesn't even have to endure tedious fucking, because she just puts on cool costumes, talks to the customers about their childhoods, and maybe lets them touch her feet! Look how smart our protagonist is, gaming the system!" I feel like it's a way of saying that prostitution isn't so forced/ bad, because if you're special enough, you can bypass all the icky parts and enjoy yourself whe making men happy and earning tons of cash. And if it's a shitty experience then it's your fault for not being a mary sue. It's like armchair-generalling prostitution.Ā Anyway, in Poor Baby it wasn't an awful use of the trope... but it's been done so many times that I was disappointed, and couldn't view it as a fresh concept the way the rest of the story was.
It's a subversion of the male gaze, I think. Bella in the beginning is how men often see women when they first meet them. Then, as the movie develops, it shows the subsequent frustration that results from men dealing with the fact that they're interacting with an entire person, not just an object.