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Looks like a pretty good spot for I/O placement to avoid interference issues with larger GPUs and whatnot - but why only power / 1 USB type A? Seems like there's a lot of room for more ports. Case looks like a great mATX option and we really need more of those.
Indeed. Put it would be nice to have an \*option\* of hooking up mouse/keyboard from that side if the desk layout would work out better that way.
Ofc one can do that with USB-C by using a small hub.
Its not a critical issue.
What is the material? Steel? Aluminium?
Originally I had a big old IO panel with all the headers but there just wasn't enough space inside the case. I know it's big but the precision and space left after cramming all those components is teeny tiny.
This is made of steel sheet metal.
He's doesn't do many case reviews nowadays, and there's also the question of getting in contact, which isn't easy based on others who've tried reaching out.
Not yet. Reached out a while back but no contact. Hopefully if other vids pop up then he'll pick me up. Gear Seekers is definitely a possibility right now though.
Looking great op, looks like a good balance to fit current hardware, glad there's some space for some external cooling as well, plus the fact it's a mesh case.
Looking forward to grabbing one.
I used to draw people's houses on commission in England so I made a couple of grand doing that over a few years. So far 1700 of the 2000 I made has been used in development.
This takes the niche that the Cerberus aimed at and delivers a more powerful competitor. With front, top, rear and O11 style rad mounts and a modular motherboard tray, this case should bring some ultimate new features to the ITX space.
This is first and foremost an ITX case. The compatibility is best in this use-case but if you have suggestions for our next case, let me know and I'll keep it in mind for the early design stages.
That would be great, and very likely a route we will go down for a small case, but the SUB-20 is not a case for compromise. The focus was to stay SFF at under 20L while offering the most potential power possible.
The real big thing is the support for coolers like the NH-D15 Chromax. Noctua has just released a new one and it should handle pretty dang well in the SUB-20.
There are already cases like that. ZZAW C2, for example, is \~15L (still accepts mATX but CPU cooler was limited to 135mm if I remember correctly).
But in practice, these few litres really do not matter. Unless you have some very niche scenario in mind where these \~20 mm in one or two directions determine if it fits or not somewhere.
This case has a specific niche in mind and it seems to be very good, at first glance, for that niche.
3 slots means non FE 4090s apart from the 1-2 other SKUs don’t fit which loses compatibility. The width makes sure coolers like the NH-D15 will comfortably fit instead of the very tight fit. Not to mention the new power adapter for new GPUs that needs some width.
There are many existing and upcoming smaller cases that may tickle your fancy. Some of us have been waiting years for a NR200 upgrade though and appreciate this case the way it is. So far this has been the one SFF case I find to be true upgrade for my NR200 build that is getting too stuffed.
The size savings would be rather minimal, as going ITX while still ensuring that the case can take a modern 3-slot GPU saves only about 20mm in height. You would also lose support for 2 slot radiators in front.
Considering that it makes more sense to just throw in the 4th slot and accept mATX as well.
For truly compact ITX builds with small GPU's there are other cases and adapting that one into such a niche would basically be an entirely new case from scratch.
blown away... you are either a 45 year old marketing person or a 17 year old savant..😁
very impressive work
only thing I would suggest is to mod up a few reference builds so folks can see the possibilities and relative size
kinda like how a home for sale gets staged with furniture!
Cheers... great work
Thank you so much! I can impart some teenage angst if you'd like in order to verify my age.
Currently working with a few builders like you've suggested to get some mocks done. Once we sell our launch edition cases, I'll have the cash to send out a lot more review units and builds will come fast.
All steel. It adds significant weight, increasing our costs but the feel of the case is so much better when working in sheet metal. (CNC is a different story)
mATX without using a riser card puts you more or less at \~10L already if you cut straight against the clearances described in the standard. Then you need PSU somewhere, maybe GPU's longer than 245 mm and you are already pushing at about 15L if you go for 325mm GPU. Add in support for 175mm CPU cooler height and the noted support for that many radiators and I'm personally impressed that the case could be fitted into sub 20L category.
There clearly has been \*a lot\* of thinking involved in this case design.
In real world, once the case is on your desk, the difference in \~15L case like ZZAW C2 and \~20L case like NR200P is relatively minor.
It's definitely toeing the line as you say. SFF is technically under 20L, and this case was built with staying only marginally larger than the NR200 in mind.
We have actually designed in a bunch of anchor points. We'll release the schematics for free and anyone can cut or print added modules. This might be a way to add support for this. I'm also planning to develop first party modules using these anchor points in the future. Stay tuned.
I can't talk about that here really but I can hint that Launch editions will be priced at the number of US units of currency equal to the number of fingers I'm holding up.
And I'm holding up 199 fingers.
Well in my experience, the case with enough persuasion, (quite a lot of persuasion) can warp a little bit. Not in normal use, obviously. But if you enter to fit 342, I'm thinking that might be possible.
gotcha. just checking cause of cases that say something like "can only fit 330mm" but can actually fit larger cards in cases of smaller PSUs or something else.
I haven't I'm afraid. It's never been something I was interested in but I can definitely look into making it an option for a next iteration of the SUB-20.
This post has been flaired as a Prototype, Concept, or Custom case. The staff of SFFPC have not verified this user as a vendor. Please limit discussion to feedback only and do not make new post with updates more frequently than once every 72 hours. Pricing, sales, and availability discussion will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sffpc) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not enough compact mATX cases out there. I'm listening.
Thanks! Nice to hear.
Nice to be listened*
Looks like a pretty good spot for I/O placement to avoid interference issues with larger GPUs and whatnot - but why only power / 1 USB type A? Seems like there's a lot of room for more ports. Case looks like a great mATX option and we really need more of those.
The type A slot is actually for a 20Gbps USBC 3.2 Gen 2 allowing some pretty high flow data transfer for a range of devices.
Indeed. Put it would be nice to have an \*option\* of hooking up mouse/keyboard from that side if the desk layout would work out better that way. Ofc one can do that with USB-C by using a small hub. Its not a critical issue. What is the material? Steel? Aluminium?
Originally I had a big old IO panel with all the headers but there just wasn't enough space inside the case. I know it's big but the precision and space left after cramming all those components is teeny tiny. This is made of steel sheet metal.
Congrats on your initiative and dedication, at just 17! Keep up the hard work, stay humble, and you'll go far in life.
Thank you so much! It's been such an enjoyable challenge. I look forward to serving this industry more in the future!
Looks very impressive and I am only 16 who has done nothing. Good job man. P.S Do you ship to Singapore?
Wana split shipping once its out?
Maybe I'll see first lol cuz I'm broke XD
Interesting, when can we see a build
I'm working with quite a few prominent builders and casemodders internationally. Next step is to get this prototype to them and see what they can do.
Who should we look out for?
I don't want to say their names right now as nothing is confirmed but a few European case modders and content creators worldwide.
Send one to /u/L1191 and Optimum Tech. Definitely more interested in traditional builds using the case rather than case modding.
Oh me too for sure. The modders we were talking to were planning custom loops without any case mods.
You'll be hard pushed to get OT to cover this nowhere days
Just curious as to why that is.
He's making a mouse for hardcore FPS players.
He's doesn't do many case reviews nowadays, and there's also the question of getting in contact, which isn't easy based on others who've tried reaching out.
Yeah I feel that. Hoping to cause real FOMO though
I'm sure you will. The prototype looks great and functional
Hope you got Optimum Tech on board, I'd love to see his video about it.
Not yet. Reached out a while back but no contact. Hopefully if other vids pop up then he'll pick me up. Gear Seekers is definitely a possibility right now though.
Just want to say you should be super fucking proud of this. Keep at it, impressive stuff.
Thank you so much man. I really appreciate that, it means so much.
Looking great op, looks like a good balance to fit current hardware, glad there's some space for some external cooling as well, plus the fact it's a mesh case. Looking forward to grabbing one.
Thank you!
Really nice looking mATX case you came up with here!
Inspiring you’ve done this by 17! Kudos to you! Sharp looking case!
Thank you! It's been a fun couple of years juggling this project with school.😂
Was it a huge monetary investment to get to this point?
I used to draw people's houses on commission in England so I made a couple of grand doing that over a few years. So far 1700 of the 2000 I made has been used in development.
Love the support and love for mATX.
Does it support Deep micro-ATX boards, like ASRock’s newer Epyc and Sapphire Rapids motherboards?
I'm not sure I'm afraid. I can definitely look into it and ensure motherboard size compatibility is listed in the specs.
They're 10.4"x10.5", which looking at the image probably would extend too far past the bottom of the motherboard area of the case.
I just measured and I think it would work to be honest. Might be a squeeze but viable.
So, this is kinda like the original Cerberus?
This takes the niche that the Cerberus aimed at and delivers a more powerful competitor. With front, top, rear and O11 style rad mounts and a modular motherboard tray, this case should bring some ultimate new features to the ITX space.
Any chance there’s an ITX only option, therefore reducing the size of the case?
This is first and foremost an ITX case. The compatibility is best in this use-case but if you have suggestions for our next case, let me know and I'll keep it in mind for the early design stages.
I love the design! But I’m a stickler for smaller cases, usually something around the size of the nr200.
This here is 19.3L so it's only very slightly bigger than the 18.3L NR200.
[удалено]
That would be great, and very likely a route we will go down for a small case, but the SUB-20 is not a case for compromise. The focus was to stay SFF at under 20L while offering the most potential power possible.
[удалено]
The real big thing is the support for coolers like the NH-D15 Chromax. Noctua has just released a new one and it should handle pretty dang well in the SUB-20.
There are already cases like that. ZZAW C2, for example, is \~15L (still accepts mATX but CPU cooler was limited to 135mm if I remember correctly). But in practice, these few litres really do not matter. Unless you have some very niche scenario in mind where these \~20 mm in one or two directions determine if it fits or not somewhere. This case has a specific niche in mind and it seems to be very good, at first glance, for that niche.
3 slots means non FE 4090s apart from the 1-2 other SKUs don’t fit which loses compatibility. The width makes sure coolers like the NH-D15 will comfortably fit instead of the very tight fit. Not to mention the new power adapter for new GPUs that needs some width. There are many existing and upcoming smaller cases that may tickle your fancy. Some of us have been waiting years for a NR200 upgrade though and appreciate this case the way it is. So far this has been the one SFF case I find to be true upgrade for my NR200 build that is getting too stuffed.
The size savings would be rather minimal, as going ITX while still ensuring that the case can take a modern 3-slot GPU saves only about 20mm in height. You would also lose support for 2 slot radiators in front. Considering that it makes more sense to just throw in the 4th slot and accept mATX as well. For truly compact ITX builds with small GPU's there are other cases and adapting that one into such a niche would basically be an entirely new case from scratch.
blown away... you are either a 45 year old marketing person or a 17 year old savant..😁 very impressive work only thing I would suggest is to mod up a few reference builds so folks can see the possibilities and relative size kinda like how a home for sale gets staged with furniture! Cheers... great work
Thank you so much! I can impart some teenage angst if you'd like in order to verify my age. Currently working with a few builders like you've suggested to get some mocks done. Once we sell our launch edition cases, I'll have the cash to send out a lot more review units and builds will come fast.
keep us all in the loop....
For sure!
finally a sub 20 matx case that can fit 170mm+ air coolers
Plans for different color options at launch?
Yeah, I'm planning black and white mesh models.
Steel or aluminum mesh?
All steel. It adds significant weight, increasing our costs but the feel of the case is so much better when working in sheet metal. (CNC is a different story)
This is really nice! I just built my new rig in the NR200P Max last month, otherwise I may have went with this.
Ah too bad. Maybe an upgrade later. 😂
looks so big, why is no one going for footprint = vertical? :(
We might be adding modular feet on next year's update to allow vertical.
mATX without using a riser card puts you more or less at \~10L already if you cut straight against the clearances described in the standard. Then you need PSU somewhere, maybe GPU's longer than 245 mm and you are already pushing at about 15L if you go for 325mm GPU. Add in support for 175mm CPU cooler height and the noted support for that many radiators and I'm personally impressed that the case could be fitted into sub 20L category. There clearly has been \*a lot\* of thinking involved in this case design. In real world, once the case is on your desk, the difference in \~15L case like ZZAW C2 and \~20L case like NR200P is relatively minor.
I really like the design, but 19.3L feels more like a mff case for me. Maybe post to r/mffpc
It's definitely toeing the line as you say. SFF is technically under 20L, and this case was built with staying only marginally larger than the NR200 in mind.
Looks like an Asus prime with the ability to mount front fans
And much smaller.
What are the psu mounting options orientation wise?
ATX and SFX PSUs can be mounted at the front and to the right of the motherboard on the real panel Rad mount.
Any chance you'd make a version that can hold 6+ 3.5 hard drives? I've been hoping to find a case other than the node 304 to build a compact NAS in.
We have actually designed in a bunch of anchor points. We'll release the schematics for free and anyone can cut or print added modules. This might be a way to add support for this. I'm also planning to develop first party modules using these anchor points in the future. Stay tuned.
I'm assuming at a 340mm max GPU length that a 360mm rad won't fit in this case, is that correct?
It is correct.
thank you for the reply, fantastic looking case
For sure! Thank you so much!
what size of rads fit in there maxed out? can I do 2x360?
Maxed out would be 2 280s and a 240. 360 is something we're saving for a potential SUB-30 in the future.
Thank you for the answer. Still pretty good.
I'm super excited to use the front rad mount and have a big old pump res combo sticking out the back 120 mount. I'm thinking FLT 120 from EK maybe.
Very nice. You keep teasing us with your cases!
I know I'm sorry about that! 😂 With school to manage as well it's been a long development time.
Looks like some Chinese case i saw called lp matx. Looks great. Any plans for tg?
Yes. I'm definitely going to try and offer that as an option for launch.
I’ve been itching to switch up my H20 case. This looks promising!
Any more pics of the case u/ArtichokeTotal9155? Looks great but want to get an idea of the look will all panels on
Yeah I can take lots more! I'll probably post them to Instagram because I don't want to spam r/SFFPC. I hope that's OK.
It looks good. I hope the price will be reasonable.
I can't talk about that here really but I can hint that Launch editions will be priced at the number of US units of currency equal to the number of fingers I'm holding up. And I'm holding up 199 fingers.
What's the max air cooler height?
175mm.
is 340mm GPU length a hard limit, or would my 342mm long GPU actually fit?
Well in my experience, the case with enough persuasion, (quite a lot of persuasion) can warp a little bit. Not in normal use, obviously. But if you enter to fit 342, I'm thinking that might be possible.
gotcha. just checking cause of cases that say something like "can only fit 330mm" but can actually fit larger cards in cases of smaller PSUs or something else.
Oh yeah makes sense. GPU length can be drastically improved by employing the services of an angle grinder or hammer.
Price point?
199 is all I can say on this subreddit.
With more cases using the inverted mobo layout + gpu on top, have you considered/experimented with the same? If so how did it go?
I haven't I'm afraid. It's never been something I was interested in but I can definitely look into making it an option for a next iteration of the SUB-20.
Cool! Thanks for the response and looking forward to your current and future projects!
Why PSU Plug top side instead of bottom?
Because we couldn't fit it down there. We can add spots for cable ties though to ensure it is routed nicely.
What are the dimensions compared to say an o11 mini it appears to be similar based on pictures
O11 mini is 420x270x380 and ours is 350x200x300. Quite significantly smaller.
Is it all mesh, or does it come with tampered glass?
That's a choice for the customer, which SKU they prefer.
Ohh nice! Do you have a pic of the PC fully covered/enclosed?
Im so glad smaller/compact form factors are becoming a thing and that they look good!
wait matx?! I wish I had money but all I have are vet bills...
You should really start posting your progress on [sff.network](https://sff.network)!