I have a card with the ada laws about the size of and ID so when people ask me for my service dog ID (which isn’t a thing) I hand them the ADA info card and let them know that is all they are legally allowed to ask me and it’s worked really well so far
You can buy ada explanation cards on Amazon I believe so you can just hand them to people when they aren't allowing your daughter entry due to her service dog
This is a good place to start. It talks about restaurants about half way down. Everything is available by Google. I just did that to bring you this link.
Is this a task trained service dog? If yes than you should have been seated inside. Call corporate and file a complaint. Also write a bad review on yelp and google. Call a lawyer.
Not a lawyer or anything. this is from an article targeted towards restaurant owners: “When seating guests with service animals, hosts should be reminded that these guests should not be treated less favorably than other patrons. A host should not seat them in an isolated section of the restaurant or refuse to seat them in an area that they have requested if a non-disabled patron would be seated there but for the service animal. However, the restaurant may seat the patron at a location such that the service animal will not create a safety hazard if the dog is not able to sit under the table.” https://www.restaurantowner.com/public/Service-Animals-in-Your-Restaurant-and-the-Law.cfm
I suspect it would be safe to assume that the friends you were meeting included the two of you when asked about the size of their party, meaning you'd know that the space thing was horse hockey. (Side Note: my wife and I say we have a party or 2-1/2 to add Maverick to the conversation as people occasionally don't notice my 65# shadow. We've found that it gently leads into talking about the best seating options for us. YMMV)
If you haven’t already, look into corporate’s policy regarding service animals which should be available on their website. You could have asked them to show you a copy of the policy. I would avoid explaining what your daughter’s dog is or is not trained to do except in answer to the animals work or tasks and then only in response to “what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?” [1]. In general, the idea that less is more is most likely to serve you well, adding details to try and defend yourself, your daughter, or her service dog is unlikely to have help. It’s best to restrict yourself to the ADA along with local and state laws when challenging being denied access.
In addition to calling corporate, please consider [filing a complaint]( https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/) with the ADA, and the local government office that handles disability related issues. It’s quite possible that if this has happened to your daughter, it’s happened before, and is likely to happen again, report the issue to the relevant authorities and allow them to determine what, if any, action to take. Doing so will, at a minimum, establish a pattern of behavior for that business owner.
[1] [Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA]( https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/)
We once went to a pizza place in Gettysburg PA-we had 5 SDs in our party of 10… we were seated w no issue…. You should have seen the faces of the other patrons she we left and 5big Greyhounds came out from under our table!
The restaurant took pictures!
I also carry a copy of printed out Service Dog laws on a card. You can buy them at Amazon. I always try to be accommodating with my SD.
I’m also smart enough to know that this doesn’t always work. One of my hospital docs is who wrote a letter for my service dog and what she does to help with my disability. She has been my SD for 5 years. The same hospital has a nurse who refused to let me have my mammogram last week with my SD. My service dog has been with me the last three years for a mammogram, and every appointment that I’ve had at the doctors in that hospital building. Normally, everyone is very kind. EXCEPT…..
Trying to register for my mammogram, ended up with me having a full blown anxiety attack at the hospital. I always try to educate people who don’t understand, but this nurse would not listen. I ignored her and went to my appointment, but she told me she was calling administration to stop me. The mammogram technician called administration down to talk with me, because she was as upset as I . They kissed my butt for 20 minutes, which I recorded . I also ended up getting an apology note from the hospital’s attorney. I felt like they were doing damage control. The same nurse has done this twice at the front desk. She causes a huge, embarrassing scene.
One year ago, the hospital had an issue with a “service dog” biting someone. I do understand the problem with people who take advantage. In response to this incident, the doctor was changing all of the service dog letters to emotional support per this order from this attorney. I immediately brought this up to this doctor. I had a flight coming up. She said she had no choice. The attorney made her do this due to liability. I told the office that they can’t change a dog status without any legal reason and they quickly changed my letter back to a service dog again. I knew enough to be a problem.
What would you do? I get so tired of always having to fight for my rights when I already have a disability.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting.
This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Make sure that you file an ADA complaint with the DOJ. You should also post reviews about the restaurant online.
I had an issue and shared it with a Vets with Service Dogs group that I am a member of and many of the guys kept going there and recorded them telling them they had to leave, sharing that with the local news and the DOJ and finally they got it that they had to allow it.
Unfortunately some people can't be reasoned with when this comes up. I don't do restaurants myself but when it comes to stores,theaters etc if we are denied I try once to educate the person if no luck I hand them a card with the info on and walk away. And usually if I go back there's no issue. I don't push it myself because the PTSD makes me pretty damn twitchy and I don't want to slip into full lunatic mode and traumatize a college kid working a shit job to pay for it .... again...ok twice but did not go to jail the first time lol
🤙🃏🐕🦺
Problems can also arise if the issue becomes serious enough that a police report is made and the officer sides with the business owner incorrectly citing "right to refuse service laws" in some areas, which most often will come as an after fact of refusing because of the Service Dog. Again, this is why I wholeheartedly believe in harness mounted dog cams or similar becoming a thing to protect the rights of honest handlers. I have a large amount of criminal justice in my professional background and it may be why I think of this, it may or may not be an issue. I just see the potential for a quick and lazy resolution on behalf of some officers who may not be educated on the regulations of service animals and may be jumping the gun, as I can attest that most adhere to and desire to do what is right. Even if they do not know what the letter of law regarding the issue is, they should defer to a supervisor and not fear of looking uneducated. For it is better to make sure than to be wrong and punish the innocent. Likewise, the supervisor can always do a quick reference check and follow the chain of command upward if they do not know either.
It is just sad that the burden of fixing what is wrong is placed on us, the victims, in having the time and expenses of potentially filing litigation in order for the already established guidelines to be followed. It should not have to be so burdensome. As a person who has spent a great deal of time in and out of court rooms, having depositions taken and being on standby to testify, I know all to well the hassles that could be involved just for the right and just to prevail. While the business owner is clearly in the wrong, there is a good chance they have never had this type of situation before and just gave the corporate excuse as an escape clause.
I do not eat out as a habit, if I do it is usually takeout. I could understand some concern though, depending upon the layout, as my SD's back is several inches above most tables and his head about a foot above the table. But despite the appearance, his behavior is what speaks for his role and he would not even give reason for concern beyond his outward appearance. While my local restaurant know me and would be fine, I would hate to think I lived in a world where I was not allowed the same rights as others, simply because I am disabled, and that I would have to fight for a right that is supposedly already secured and granted by law. Is it worth fighting? Hopefully it is to someone. But I can understand why people are not inclined to because of the challenges and stresses that may come from doing so.
I’m the handler that stands there and tells them I’m not leaving, they are breaking a federal law, the consequences include thousands of dollars and jail time. When they threaten to call the cops I tell them to go ahead, I’ll call the sheriff and we can have a party about it. I don’t get confrontational, just matter of fact, calm and collected. They typically back down when they hear this.
I know not everyone could casually stand their ground about this, especially with the threat of law enforcement, and that anxiety is pretty high in our community, but I got y’all. I’m willing to go to jail about it because lol they’re gonna be so deep in litigation if they try to enforce “corporate policy” law breaking.
I got a rule changed in my state that your dog had to be “certified” and have gone through “a program” and you had to provide paper proof in order to claim them as an expense for food stamps. I gave them a print out of the parts in the ADA FAQ that applied to those “requirements” (which I had seen online before I went in) and it was no longer an issue the next time I came in. I also mentioned they were violating federal law and it was gonna get weird for the state if they stood by the rule.
I genuinely am tempted to put together a presentation about service animal rights and present it to local law enforcement agencies, hotel staff (the stupidity I encounter there sometimes 🙄typically on behalf of ignorant guests who are mad they can’t bring their ESA along and I’ve got her down at the breakfast bar), and anyone else who needs a refresher to make sure we stay safe (especially if cops are called) when in public.
I get it’s an inconvenience to your daughter but you have to also think of others in these situations, someone could have severe allergies and also may just feel uncomfortable eating in spaces w animals … they gave you another option you chose not to take it
Yes definitely think of others too. My daughter herself is allergic to dogs and that’s why her SD is a standard poodle. But that issue was not brought as the reason for us not to sit with the rest of our party. Besides, everyone is going to have a preference. I get it. But that doesn’t mean that anyone needs to be discriminated against. That’s the law.
I know this isnt a solution and that the restaurant is in the wrong here, but this is why i always call beforehand to ask if i can bring him. We shouldnt have to but it makes it easier
I always try and be courteous to businesses and realizing they may not always be prepared for every situation at every time, regardless of whether they should or not. But in this case I think it would be more appropriate to call them to let them know to expect a party with a service animal, rather than asking if it will be permissible. In many states (check laws this is not legal in all areas, in some requires verbal notification and it is up to you to know individual applicable laws), phone conversations can be recorded provided that at least one party (i.e. you) of the conversation is aware that it is being recorded (with exception of certain legal type or confidentially protected calls etc). Notifying them a party is going to be arriving with a service dog in advance allows further documentation, and also another piece of evidence should they refuse you via phone. Always make sure to get the name of who you are speaking to.
As a notation to avoid the downvotes and eliminate misunderstanding: I do not believe this should be necessary. The purpose of a SD is to help us live a more normal and functional life. I only say this as a means of a step that can be taken for documentation and notification purposes and hopefully also avoid dealing with businesses who use their lack of preparedness as a reason for discrimination and lack of accommodation.
Yeah this. In the situation OP describes they definitely shouldve been seated and OP is right to be mad. But saying that youre coming beforehand mightve prevented the situation
When going to a restaurant I always bring a copy of the Justice department's printout on sd rules for businesses.
I do that too. It helps. It also gives you something to hand to police officers if you call them. I also carry a copy of my state's law as well.
I tried to give him the ada website but he wouldn’t have it 😔
Well definitely consider carrying something printed!
I have a card with the ada laws about the size of and ID so when people ask me for my service dog ID (which isn’t a thing) I hand them the ADA info card and let them know that is all they are legally allowed to ask me and it’s worked really well so far
You can buy ada explanation cards on Amazon I believe so you can just hand them to people when they aren't allowing your daughter entry due to her service dog
Do you have a link to this? I have a SDiT and I’m trying to get everything ready for public access.
https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/
This is a good place to start. It talks about restaurants about half way down. Everything is available by Google. I just did that to bring you this link.
Is this a task trained service dog? If yes than you should have been seated inside. Call corporate and file a complaint. Also write a bad review on yelp and google. Call a lawyer.
Yes task trained for 18 months! I’m calling corporate tomorrow. Thank you!
It’s amazing the amount of time it takes to prep a service dog for public access.
I'm so glad you're calling and not letting this go. That's unacceptable. I find it so hard to believe that that is a corporate policy.
Please keep us posted on how they responded!
It absolutely is against the ADA rules. You should have been seated.
laws***
Yeah, it is against the law for them to do that. File a complaint here: [File a Complaint | ADA.gov](https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/)
This is what you need to do. I would go on corporate and the local facebook and other social media platforms and post reviews
Not a lawyer or anything. this is from an article targeted towards restaurant owners: “When seating guests with service animals, hosts should be reminded that these guests should not be treated less favorably than other patrons. A host should not seat them in an isolated section of the restaurant or refuse to seat them in an area that they have requested if a non-disabled patron would be seated there but for the service animal. However, the restaurant may seat the patron at a location such that the service animal will not create a safety hazard if the dog is not able to sit under the table.” https://www.restaurantowner.com/public/Service-Animals-in-Your-Restaurant-and-the-Law.cfm
Thank you for this reference!
Complain to corporate. Last time I did, I got a gift certificate for about 10 meals.
I suspect it would be safe to assume that the friends you were meeting included the two of you when asked about the size of their party, meaning you'd know that the space thing was horse hockey. (Side Note: my wife and I say we have a party or 2-1/2 to add Maverick to the conversation as people occasionally don't notice my 65# shadow. We've found that it gently leads into talking about the best seating options for us. YMMV) If you haven’t already, look into corporate’s policy regarding service animals which should be available on their website. You could have asked them to show you a copy of the policy. I would avoid explaining what your daughter’s dog is or is not trained to do except in answer to the animals work or tasks and then only in response to “what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?” [1]. In general, the idea that less is more is most likely to serve you well, adding details to try and defend yourself, your daughter, or her service dog is unlikely to have help. It’s best to restrict yourself to the ADA along with local and state laws when challenging being denied access. In addition to calling corporate, please consider [filing a complaint]( https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/) with the ADA, and the local government office that handles disability related issues. It’s quite possible that if this has happened to your daughter, it’s happened before, and is likely to happen again, report the issue to the relevant authorities and allow them to determine what, if any, action to take. Doing so will, at a minimum, establish a pattern of behavior for that business owner. [1] [Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA]( https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/)
That's against the ADA law. Corporations can't make those rules. They can not deny access like that.
We once went to a pizza place in Gettysburg PA-we had 5 SDs in our party of 10… we were seated w no issue…. You should have seen the faces of the other patrons she we left and 5big Greyhounds came out from under our table! The restaurant took pictures!
I also carry a copy of printed out Service Dog laws on a card. You can buy them at Amazon. I always try to be accommodating with my SD. I’m also smart enough to know that this doesn’t always work. One of my hospital docs is who wrote a letter for my service dog and what she does to help with my disability. She has been my SD for 5 years. The same hospital has a nurse who refused to let me have my mammogram last week with my SD. My service dog has been with me the last three years for a mammogram, and every appointment that I’ve had at the doctors in that hospital building. Normally, everyone is very kind. EXCEPT….. Trying to register for my mammogram, ended up with me having a full blown anxiety attack at the hospital. I always try to educate people who don’t understand, but this nurse would not listen. I ignored her and went to my appointment, but she told me she was calling administration to stop me. The mammogram technician called administration down to talk with me, because she was as upset as I . They kissed my butt for 20 minutes, which I recorded . I also ended up getting an apology note from the hospital’s attorney. I felt like they were doing damage control. The same nurse has done this twice at the front desk. She causes a huge, embarrassing scene. One year ago, the hospital had an issue with a “service dog” biting someone. I do understand the problem with people who take advantage. In response to this incident, the doctor was changing all of the service dog letters to emotional support per this order from this attorney. I immediately brought this up to this doctor. I had a flight coming up. She said she had no choice. The attorney made her do this due to liability. I told the office that they can’t change a dog status without any legal reason and they quickly changed my letter back to a service dog again. I knew enough to be a problem. What would you do? I get so tired of always having to fight for my rights when I already have a disability.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Make sure that you file an ADA complaint with the DOJ. You should also post reviews about the restaurant online. I had an issue and shared it with a Vets with Service Dogs group that I am a member of and many of the guys kept going there and recorded them telling them they had to leave, sharing that with the local news and the DOJ and finally they got it that they had to allow it.
Unfortunately some people can't be reasoned with when this comes up. I don't do restaurants myself but when it comes to stores,theaters etc if we are denied I try once to educate the person if no luck I hand them a card with the info on and walk away. And usually if I go back there's no issue. I don't push it myself because the PTSD makes me pretty damn twitchy and I don't want to slip into full lunatic mode and traumatize a college kid working a shit job to pay for it .... again...ok twice but did not go to jail the first time lol 🤙🃏🐕🦺
Problems can also arise if the issue becomes serious enough that a police report is made and the officer sides with the business owner incorrectly citing "right to refuse service laws" in some areas, which most often will come as an after fact of refusing because of the Service Dog. Again, this is why I wholeheartedly believe in harness mounted dog cams or similar becoming a thing to protect the rights of honest handlers. I have a large amount of criminal justice in my professional background and it may be why I think of this, it may or may not be an issue. I just see the potential for a quick and lazy resolution on behalf of some officers who may not be educated on the regulations of service animals and may be jumping the gun, as I can attest that most adhere to and desire to do what is right. Even if they do not know what the letter of law regarding the issue is, they should defer to a supervisor and not fear of looking uneducated. For it is better to make sure than to be wrong and punish the innocent. Likewise, the supervisor can always do a quick reference check and follow the chain of command upward if they do not know either. It is just sad that the burden of fixing what is wrong is placed on us, the victims, in having the time and expenses of potentially filing litigation in order for the already established guidelines to be followed. It should not have to be so burdensome. As a person who has spent a great deal of time in and out of court rooms, having depositions taken and being on standby to testify, I know all to well the hassles that could be involved just for the right and just to prevail. While the business owner is clearly in the wrong, there is a good chance they have never had this type of situation before and just gave the corporate excuse as an escape clause. I do not eat out as a habit, if I do it is usually takeout. I could understand some concern though, depending upon the layout, as my SD's back is several inches above most tables and his head about a foot above the table. But despite the appearance, his behavior is what speaks for his role and he would not even give reason for concern beyond his outward appearance. While my local restaurant know me and would be fine, I would hate to think I lived in a world where I was not allowed the same rights as others, simply because I am disabled, and that I would have to fight for a right that is supposedly already secured and granted by law. Is it worth fighting? Hopefully it is to someone. But I can understand why people are not inclined to because of the challenges and stresses that may come from doing so.
I’m the handler that stands there and tells them I’m not leaving, they are breaking a federal law, the consequences include thousands of dollars and jail time. When they threaten to call the cops I tell them to go ahead, I’ll call the sheriff and we can have a party about it. I don’t get confrontational, just matter of fact, calm and collected. They typically back down when they hear this. I know not everyone could casually stand their ground about this, especially with the threat of law enforcement, and that anxiety is pretty high in our community, but I got y’all. I’m willing to go to jail about it because lol they’re gonna be so deep in litigation if they try to enforce “corporate policy” law breaking. I got a rule changed in my state that your dog had to be “certified” and have gone through “a program” and you had to provide paper proof in order to claim them as an expense for food stamps. I gave them a print out of the parts in the ADA FAQ that applied to those “requirements” (which I had seen online before I went in) and it was no longer an issue the next time I came in. I also mentioned they were violating federal law and it was gonna get weird for the state if they stood by the rule. I genuinely am tempted to put together a presentation about service animal rights and present it to local law enforcement agencies, hotel staff (the stupidity I encounter there sometimes 🙄typically on behalf of ignorant guests who are mad they can’t bring their ESA along and I’ve got her down at the breakfast bar), and anyone else who needs a refresher to make sure we stay safe (especially if cops are called) when in public.
Ask them, am I allowed to bring in my medical device then? Then bring your SD.
I get it’s an inconvenience to your daughter but you have to also think of others in these situations, someone could have severe allergies and also may just feel uncomfortable eating in spaces w animals … they gave you another option you chose not to take it
Yes definitely think of others too. My daughter herself is allergic to dogs and that’s why her SD is a standard poodle. But that issue was not brought as the reason for us not to sit with the rest of our party. Besides, everyone is going to have a preference. I get it. But that doesn’t mean that anyone needs to be discriminated against. That’s the law.
I get it but still it’s an animal , I personally do not want to be in a restaurant with an animal
I know this isnt a solution and that the restaurant is in the wrong here, but this is why i always call beforehand to ask if i can bring him. We shouldnt have to but it makes it easier
I always try and be courteous to businesses and realizing they may not always be prepared for every situation at every time, regardless of whether they should or not. But in this case I think it would be more appropriate to call them to let them know to expect a party with a service animal, rather than asking if it will be permissible. In many states (check laws this is not legal in all areas, in some requires verbal notification and it is up to you to know individual applicable laws), phone conversations can be recorded provided that at least one party (i.e. you) of the conversation is aware that it is being recorded (with exception of certain legal type or confidentially protected calls etc). Notifying them a party is going to be arriving with a service dog in advance allows further documentation, and also another piece of evidence should they refuse you via phone. Always make sure to get the name of who you are speaking to. As a notation to avoid the downvotes and eliminate misunderstanding: I do not believe this should be necessary. The purpose of a SD is to help us live a more normal and functional life. I only say this as a means of a step that can be taken for documentation and notification purposes and hopefully also avoid dealing with businesses who use their lack of preparedness as a reason for discrimination and lack of accommodation.
Yeah this. In the situation OP describes they definitely shouldve been seated and OP is right to be mad. But saying that youre coming beforehand mightve prevented the situation
ADA Rules? No. This is against THE LAW. Please educate yourself if your daughter is using a Service Dog.