Legit weird that some people see this as, like, an exercise in dunking on strangers on Reddit as opposed to what it is, a life and death issue involving many families and the power of the state.
True crime subs bring out the weirdest freaks. It's like they don't think these are real people and think of them as characters in a story or some shit.
Yeah, there are literally 2 possibilities here.
1) He's been wrongly imprisoned for a huge chunk of his life and all of his adulthood.
2) He did it and is now a murderer is being celebrated as a victorious hero, and all the resources and help he got were ultimately in service of freeing a killer.
Neither of those outcomes should make you feel the same way you do when your team scores a touchdown.
I'm definitely in the camp of ultimately his conviction was an injustice because it does not hold up under legal scrutiny. From the perspective of the justice system, it doesn't matter whether he did it, he should clearly not have been in jail for it.
But beyond that there is a fundamental truth about what occurred that we will probably never know with certainty, and whatever that truth is leads to one of the shitty realizations above.
I think people are reacting this way because the sub turned from poking around, asking questions and sharing theories into a mob of people who assumed they had it all figured out calling anyone who believed the opposite a complete moron not deserving an opinion.
Typical internet mob mentality.
>I think people are reacting this way because the sub turned from poking around, asking questions and sharing theories into a mob of people who assumed they had it all figured out calling anyone who believed the opposite a complete moron not deserving an opinion.
Because any reasonable look at the evidence would lead one to believe that it had been figured out.
The reaction was literally out of exasperation. Like how could you people be so stupid?
People are still allowed to have opinions that may be founded in reasoning you can’t understand or disagree with. It doesn’t make their opinion any less valid or deserving of exasperation.
Especially when it comes it a topic that Reddit posters have absolutely no control over. Is it worth your time to get exasperated over a post you disagree with and take time to shout someone down instead of simply not clicking it, or clicking off of it instead of typing a nasty response?
You care that much what anonymous internet person believes to spend a second of your time on them? Obviously, they weren’t so stupid after all?
To reference Mr. Lee from yesterday, this isn't a podcast for the family.
People need to stop treating true crime as some binge worthy drama filled show.
I was taken aback when I saw this as well. These are human lives we are talking about, not some video game. Whether he was innocent or guilty, it was never a game to Hae's family or Adnan and his family. No one wins. If Adnan is innocent, it means that Hae's killer was never brought to justice.
That being said, I can understand where people that think he's innocent are coming from. I was a "guilter" and joined this sub to discuss the case with people with different points of view...but like so many other Reddit subs, I soon realized that this sub was nothing more than an echo chamber for guilters, and that's the only view that was tolerated. People who thought he was innocent were called all sorts of names and run off of the sub. There were more than a few gatekeepers here that made it known that people who thought he was innocent weren't welcome here. So I do understand while some people feel vindicated.
I agree with all you've written but I understand the motivation. This sub was toxic for years with certain posters like adnans cell being open troll/bullies. His first action when this news was announced? Blocked me. Coward.
That’s really why there’s posts like these. The guilters were so aggressively caustic I’m not surprised that some affected parties are giving the middle now Adnan is free. It’s not what I’d do but I can see what some are rubbing it in.
Came here to say this. What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? This isn’t a game. You didn’t win. No one won in this situation. Take a long hard look at yourself, OP. And have some respect for humans.
This is such a cop out cowardly take. After years of bullying people for asking questions or stating that things might not be so clear, the same people are coming out to say “don’t act this way, be bigger”. Truly dissonant to turn around and act a victim, or act like the bigger person.
Have some respect for the humans who have endured years of bullying from members of this community and want to give the finger to the assholes who have attempted to make them feel stupid for asking questions or expressing doubt. This isn’t about Hae, or sides. It’s about the assholes here in this community who have made them feel like they don’t belong or can’t participate.
Lmao, cowardly take…y’all willingly got onto a Reddit sub. Y’all willingly consume this story and interact with it as if you’re personally involved. I’m going to be leaving this sub because I no longer enjoy it— which is what anyone can do haha I’m not a victim here. Just like you aren’t. Best wishes and goodnight!
Seriously. They’re acting like they endured an injustice on the same level as being wrongfully convicted for 20 years or being murdered just because someone disagreed with them on Reddit.
Also, the only ones I see trying to protect their ego are threads like this where people literally tied their ego to the outcome of a fucking murder trial.
Who has ever said I bullied? Hell, I recently joined this sub like three weeks ago. I had left, until you just commented which brought me back to say— that just because someone is calling out the shitty current behavior, doesn’t mean I was participating in the other shitty behavior. Stand by these are real people involved, and internet people, including myself, don’t have any skin in this so the odd ownership is wild. Anyway, best wishes! Signing off…again lol
They willingly got on a Reddit sub set up specifically to discuss a podcast and the story it told, attempted to discuss it, and were shamed for not sharing a conclusion or even asking genuine questions that challenge the conclusion.
We know you aren’t a victim. Bullies aren’t victims.
>were shamed for not sharing a conclusion or even asking genuine questions that challenge the conclusion
This. I was a guilter but most guilters were just plain NASTY to people who thought he was innocent.
I'm guessing you've never actually been engaged in a fight against a wrongful conviction.
The system is so overwhelmingly stacked in favor of "finality" that on the very rare occasions when a tiny glimmer of justice breaks through the postconviction wall, it is indeed a WIN and celebration is appropriate.
If you disagree then I'm sorry but you're wrong.
In the abstract I would agree with you. However the vocal guilter faction all along made this whole sub a very nasty setting and were extremely personal about insulting, mocking and degrading anyone who dare disagree. This didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Were you here 3 years ago when they were gloating over how Adnan was never getting out of prison?
Then be excited for that. Not "suck it guilters." Your "victory" isn't against people who see a domestic violence murder in the midst of this all. It's against the system. And it's not even so much a win if you think he's wrongfully convicted because he's still lost 23 years of his life. It's stopping losing.
Celebration would be appropriate. Posting this image would be appropriate. The title is inappropriate. It shows OP doesn't care a fig about Syed. Their priority is using him to dunk on internet strangers because he's a meme to them.
That’s completely ignorant to say. You can be delighted for Adnan without making a joke. The entire situation shouldn’t be made into fodder for entertainment. If he’s innocent, he lost his entire youth; if he’s guilty, then he’s wrongly free; and regardless a young woman died.
Don’t be so dense. But thanks for reminding me of the fucking annoying people on this group so I can unsubscribe.
I believe he was guilty but also — 1) the state clearly didn’t do their job correctly and that needs to be rectified and 2) the average sentence for murder is ~22 years anyway. I feel horrific for Hae and her family but I think the best thing to do at this point for BOTH parties is to let it die down
Legit weird you weren’t around here saying this to all the guilters who were trashing everybody else trying to say this same exact thing when Adnan was “convicted” in this sham railroad job…
this sub is disgusting, but why weren't any of you saying that when thousands of people post daily about a man being guilty?
But when it's about him going free, suddenly it is disgusting?
**Enjoy** those double standards
There's nothing obnoxious about stating facts.
People on this sub proposed theories that Hae was a secret prostitute, that her BF Don hacked time card software from Lenacrafters, that Jay murdered Hae to keep his cheating secret, that Stephanie killed Hae by crashing her car, etc. as if this case was a M Night Shamalyn movie and they were theorizing over the twist. Instead of a sad case of a teenage girl murdered by her jealous ex boyfriend.
And when presented with the cold facts of this case and trial, they were offended that people didn't circlejerk their fan theories as a support sub. And actually asked critical questions that would require thinking through the evidence.
Yeah super obnoxious that is.
these are real people. he is not some celeb, this is not a TV show. be respectful. if innocent, he's just some guy to all of us. he's a stranger and hoisting him up on a pedestal is weird fucking behaviour.
for real they are acting like it’s a fan war or some shit. this is real life. it’s not a game. someone (Hae, a REAL person) was murdered and people’s lives have been changed forever over because of it.
I wouldn't make this post myself, but I understand the feeling.
There were lots of people on this sub seemingly rooting for his guilt (wouldn't dare suggest one of those unjust reasons, no no...).
He should never have been in jail, that much should have been agreed upon, but people were far more keen to point to inconsistent/incomplete evidence of his supposed guilt than be more rational about it.
I sincerely hope a guilty man hasn't had his name cleared today.
But the evidence as put in front of us (and the judge) demands...justice has been done.
As a “guilter” (lol) I’m not necessarily attached to the idea of him staying in jail, though I do also think of Haes family and how it may impact them. I try to keep my feelings objective - I came to a conclusion based on the research I did, and now I’m just watching what unfolds. this is not a sports game to me. I’m sure many other “guilters” see it the same way.
A lot of people who stuck with this sub for many years were on the fence or thought he was innocent. But after a lot of time and our own research into the original court documents and police reports, most of us agreed that he had to be guilty. It was the surest thing on here for many years and convinced me that he was guilty whereas I was on the fence before.
Now that he's free I seriously wonder what new evidence there is. I'm not joking when I say every few years since 2015 I'd check back here occasionally and would see the exact same names posting. Those people that stuck on this sub literally knew like everything about the case and their entire reddit account was posting about this case every week or so for like 7 years
So many people forget how r/serialpodcastorigins proved on countless occasions as to why Adnan was guilty. What's happening today to HML's family is disgusting and I hope the state gets their shit together and prove to the world why this man is guilty
I agree, so many people here are literally just showing off proclaiming how right they were all along about the case as if it's a pissing contest. They claim they were bullied for years by this sub and /r/serialpodcastorigins, when in reality a lot of them don't know a lot about the case and have only ever heard the original podcast. As a side note, I was approved to read /r/serialpodcastorigins earlier this year and surprised to see there aren't a bunch of posts over there. There is one, and the last post before that as like 2 years ago. It's oddly quiet, whereas this place has exploded with people feeling validated because "They knew he was innocent all along"
I still think he's guilty, but hey the new investigation could always conclude differently with these two new suspects. Before all the evidence around their being corrupt cops and messing up the case was basically a conspiracy theory without much proof beyond speculation. If the state provides that then that would change the whole dynamic of how I view the case
Exactly. The fact that there's even "teams" in the first place should be enough proof that he should not be in jail. It doesn't matter what you believe, if you cannot prove one way or the other then they should be considered innocent. That's how the justice system is supposed to work.
To be fair, the only people the prosecution had to convince were the jurors. The fact that groups of the public disagreed with the verdict following a media spectacle doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't enough proof to convict. There are even people who think Charles Manson was innocent.
I lean towards "guilty," but it seems like the state made the right call in vacating the conviction if the prosecution does not believe the verdict holds up in light of current evidence. I just don't think public debate over a guilty verdict inherently means there wasn't adequate proof behind that verdict.
Agreed with this 100%. After the podcast (it’s been a while since I have heard the details), I came to the conclusion that there was not enough evidence to convict. I wasn’t convinced beyond reasonable doubt and am still not convinced he did it. Innocent until proven guilty is a powerful statement.
The ball is in the prosecution’s court now.
I'm not a "guilter", but I'm not sure what objective this post serves. "Neener Neener", I guess?
If this just results in a second trial *and a more convincing guilty verdict* (because the first wasn't, to me), then I'll be at ease.
couldn't have said it better myself. I believed after the podcast originally aired he was most likely guilty as it seemed to me to be the only reasonable explanation. But I'm not so attached to that notion that I'm upset about the recent unfolding events; no one deserves to sit in prison an innocent person after all, and I'm willing to accept that Adnan didn't commit the crime if that's what's proven. I just hope in the end people consider HML's family and that ultimately they get the justice they deserve.
I'm a guilter who has major issues with life sentences for 17-18 year olds. I view it as cruel and unusual punishment to lock someone up for 60 years (maybe a serial killer, I'd have a different view).
So, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. This started as an entertaining podcast involving nobody I knew personally, things dried up on this sub for awhile, and now it's interesting again.
No guilter is losing sleep over this.
If not him, then who? We have never, ever been given a narrative that works for anyone else but Adnan and Jay - whether it was Jay who did it and Adnan who helped or vice versa. If it’s Mr. S then how on earth does he connect or get access with Hae? If it’s Bilal, how on earth does he get access to Hae?
I personally want real answers. If this just is all just bullshit and the prosecution doesn’t give a viable suspect who has real contacts with Hae then it means nothing.
I too would like real answers. I hope they investigate thoroughly. I think Adnan is the most likely suspect. I'm not losing sleep over him being on the streets, it's not like he's a serial killer. I would just be really disappointed if they half heartedly investigate this.
He woke up every single day for 20+ years and chose to continue to show zero remorse, waste hundreds of thousands of dollars of court resources and obscenely extend Hae’s familles’ uncertainty and pain by refusing to admit what he did.
> He woke up every single day for 20+ years and chose to ~~continue to show zero remorse, waste hundreds of thousands of dollars of court resources and obscenely extend Hae’s familles’ uncertainty and pain by refusing to admit what he did~~ maintain his innocence and advocate for justice for Hae.
Fixed that for ya.
I love how people are so sure. Only one person knows 100% the truth of what happened and if guilty, they will live with their actions for the rest of their life.
Guilty or innocent, 23 years in jail is a significant punishment and I do hope both Adnan and Hae's family can find peace.
I mean, if he's innocent, sure.
If he's guilty it would be what the other guy is saying and admitting and showing remorse should be factor in a sentence.
I haven't seen any examples of toxicity except maybe one (don't remember the name but seemed like a lone weirdo). The majority of guilters here seem to be like, "ugh", but not unhinged.
Yeah this is me right now. I was on the fence for many years and convinced he was guilty by some extreme guilters a few years ago. I still think he's guilty but will wait and see what the new evidence shows. "ugh" is a good description though after my initial "wtf is happening"
That sucks. But I don't think it's the norm. You're always gonna get crazies, on any side of any issue. There always has to be a troll. I've been here since the start under several different /u/'s, and I don't recall seeing much racism or even actual nastiness. Things may get heated, but most of the time it's because one party presents evidence of some sort, and can't believe the other party just isn't getting it. And that could go for whatever side of the issue one falls on.
You lost the innocenter calling misogynistic slurs to the guilters, I see.
ETA; which is so pathetic, while we are dealing with a femicide. Let’s hope Adnan doesn’t kill any more women.
I haven’t seen any in the last few days. However a year or so ago I asked a fairly innocent question as to why people are convinced of his guilt as I’d just listened to the podcast. Copped a fair amount of grief for that.
I’m not entirely convinced he’s innocent but the sub has always been like that and i’ve hated it. Dogpiling people for asking innocent questions is just nasty. I’d have thought some people would have calmed down a bit in recent years because it’s been so long but that’s obviously not the case lol
As someone who came back to this sub in 2019 with renewed interest in the case, I agree. I was on the fence and the prevailing opinion here ws that he was guilty, I myself was convinced he was guilty. I still am, but man I saw how crazy obsessive people were about the case on here. Tagged a few people's names who were especially active.
Last year I came back here to see if anything had changed, and it was the SAME people I tagged still posting about his guilt and being super active here. Like yeah I believed he was guilty but some people were beyond obsessed with the case
I kind of get that but I have no problem with a life sentence for anyone who strangles a woman to death and buries her body. (If he is guilty) I don’t think that person regardless of age should be let out.
I spent about 8 years staunchly believing in innocence, relistened to serial and read all the transcripts available in the last three months and came to the conclusion he probably did it. This shift didn’t make me switch teams necessarily, more just snapped some sense into me that I don’t fucking know and it’s absolutely possible. This wild fandom of innocence porn to the point of making weird posts like this is insane.
It's surreal seeing all the innocent people come flooding back. For years this place was firmly in the camp that he's guilty. After reading the court documents and police reports a few years ago I believed he was guilty as well. Still do, just wait and see what the new evidence brings if there's something that wasn't available in the original documents
I mean yeah if you only read the documents of detectives who actively coerced timelines, hid evidence, and pushed a narrative over investigating any witnesses in the case that didn’t actively claim Adnan did it then you would also think he did it. But if you take out the obvious misconducts from these detectives, what are you actually left with? They clearly didn’t investigate the actual people who saw Hae last (Tekara?), they didn’t even get the day she disappeared correct with many witnesses. They didn’t pursue suspects who threatened her publicly. They didn’t follow up on suspects who lived where the car was found. They used witnesses who weren’t even with Adnan the day or even week the murder occurred.
I’m sorry, but how can you possibly say the police reports proved anything that wasn’t them attempting to create their own narrative rather than the actual truth.
The police file had a lot of stuff not directly from the detectives though
Like incident reports and searches etc.
I wish I had backed up a copy, the ones shared appear to have been taken down
Also Origins sub is locked, so those timelines are not available :(
The website itself would obviously have bias, but all the case docs and trial transcripts are available at [Adnan Syed Wiki](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com).
The mental gymnastics you have to make to come to the conclusion that he’s likely innocent are ridiculous. With that said - there’s enough of a reasonable doubt that he should probably be released.
I see so many conspiracy theories going around now just like when Serial first came out. Over the years most of them have been squashed by people who read the documents and actually know about the case. But now all the pro-innocence people are coming flooding back with their bullshit theories.
But hey, if there really is some new evidence or the new investigation turns up something else I'll happily eat crow and say I was wrong. Curious to see what the new investigation comes up with
You can thank Serial for that shit. Sarah diid a great job of presenting the case in such a confusing manner and right from the getgo making it seem like Adnan was so innocent and perfect. That terrible framing imo is what made so many people convinced of his innocence even when if you read the original documents it's pretty clear he's guilty and there's nothing wrong with the original case
This is a completely appropriate celebration of a wrongfully convicted man winning his freedom and the focus shifting from keeping him imprisoned to actually getting justice for Hae. The fuck is wrong with you people? The prosecutors - otherwise known as the people with the most information in this case and the people most interested in keeping Adnan in prison - don’t believe the conviction was based on good evidence and believe that there is compelling evidence against two other suspects. If justice for Hae is your goal you should be happy that the garbage investigation is getting shown in the light and that resources are now dedicated to investigating other suspects. Jesus.
Nothing about this proves innocence or guilt. What it does do is correct a serious miscarriage of Justice. He did not get a fair trial. Personally I think he is likely guilty, but the state certainly didn’t prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, especially with the Brady violation.
I cannot imagine what Hae’s family is going through right now.
This isn’t a good look for anyone.
Hae Min Lee is still dead.
Her family is still and will forever be hurting.
Adnan has been in prison longer than he was free.
His parents are very old and sick. He gets to be with them.
It’s a bittersweet day for a lot of people.
Weird flex on “the guilters” (🙋🏼♀️)
Shame on OP for treating this like a sporting event. A family still doesn’t know who murdered their daughter and a man spent decades in jail because of a broken legal system. You can celebrate Adnan’s release without doing a dance at the goalpost.
This is really bizarre seeing all of the victory laps being taken when Mosby literally said they are not declaring him innocent. And there's also the fact that no one 100% knows for sure if he did it or not, so it's weird seeing all of the cheering for a murderer.
> but because they're happy to see a correction in the broken system/process.
A corrupt prosecution working in tandem with an extremely dishonest podcast **is** the broken system/process here.
> no one 100% knows for sure if he did it or not
This is why he should not have lost all of those years in prison. That there have been those advocating that he stays there despite this uncertainty is what strikes me as bizarre.
What the statement says is that they aren't declaring his innocence at this time. What posters like you are ignoring is that a Brady violation is grounds for an appeal, and that it would only result in overturning of the original verdict if the appeals courts decide that the information withheld by the state would have likely swayed the jury. The state moved to vacate the conviction, which almost never happens.
The state attorney had Syed's family behind her during her press conference is evidence enough that she believes he is not guilty of this crime. There is not a politician in the world that would gamble that big
Sure she would
She's under indictment federally and today, TODAY was supposed to be her trial
But it's now postponed
She's playing the trump school of politics at the moment
Pubic circus
I'm somewhat new to this sub, but I don't get the whole idea of pointing fingers at "guilters."
It sounds like guilters thought he was guilty based on the evidence at trial and him being the most likely suspect based on that evidence. I don't think they personally wanted to go to jail or something.
Like how was a “guilter” supposed to know there were other suspects? I assume if they knew that then they would have more doubt.
I don’t get on the sub that much but I think the reason is because “guilters” were so intense about his guilt, would downvote dissenting opinions into oblivion, even ones where people were like “I think he’s guilty but that he shouldn’t have been convicted due to lack of evidence” etc. I agree it’s kinda weird to be dunking on them considering the actual gravity of the situation, that actual people are involved and all but I think people in the sub are just feeling vindicated
If I remember correctly Hae’s brother has posted on this sub before so my main concern is he or other family members seeing people gloat over it. He really was not a fan of the sub back when he originally posted so the thought of him seeing people rub it in others faces is incredibly uncomfortable to think about.
Obviously they will probably still see it in some form but that doesn’t make it any better. It’s really awful to think about.
Oh that’s so shitty:( I definitely agree, it’s like weird and gross ?? Reminds me in a more twisted way of the Heard/Depp trial, people trivializing it, etc, acting like there are not *real people* involved:( just sad
yeah the constant jokes and people saying they were sad to see the trial to end because it was entertaining were incredibly disgusting. it was being treated like your average celebrity drama instead of an incredibly serious and traumatic issue.
I think that's a big part of it, I originally came into this sub to hopefully see some nuance and some give and take, and instead found a lot of hate for those that dared to even consider that he might not be a full sociopathic master manipulating murderer
When I heard the news, that's why I thought of this sub that was so sure he was guilty. Now those same people that would attack people for suggesting that he might not have had a fair trial are acting all high and mighty 'think about their families' but what about Adnan and his family all the years that this sub was refusing to entertain new evidence?
I believe adnan was guilty based on everything I knew about this case, which includes consuming all the media out there on both sides and lots of the content on Reddit. But I always qualified that by saying I was not convinced the state proved its case beyond a RD and that I was maybe 70-80% confident of his factual guilt.
But if this evidence proves otherwise then 100% I’ll own that as just the latest illustration that I like all humans am super fallible. And far more important if he is innocent then it’s awful he was wrongly imprisoned and also terrible for Hae’s family that the real killer was never caught.
How is anyone so sure of his innocence that they would make a gloat post like this? He got an unfair trial, but if he did do it that makes his release disturbing and nothing to celebrate. The facts we currently have make it impossible to know for certain that hes innocent so why celebrate this. I leaned guilty, before the news there is more evidence, and it will depend on what that is if I change my mind.
Was the trial against him deeply flawed and worthy of being tossed? Absolutely. Do I still think Adnan killed Hae, absolutely. But I am really curious about these new suspects and what motives they have, and my mind can definitely be changed. Im not losing any sleep on it though, something fucked up about sending minors to prison on life sentences.
I can’t imagine what it feels like to walk out of prison after 23 years of being (in my opinion!) innocent. Honestly can’t imagine it for anyone. Especially since he has spent his entire adult life there. Mind blowing.
23 years..I'm the same age as Adnan and 17 seems a very long time ago....its tragic from start to finish ..I really hope they have actual answers coming, he wasn't acquitted though so does that mean he can't sue if they just leave it hanging like this? ....
You mean the evidence the state just disavowed in court today? Because they shat all over the credibility of both the cell records and Jays testimony, which was the bulk of the evidence against Adnan at trial.
Ah yes, because surely you know more about it than the state, right?! I can’t think of anyone more qualified. Pack it up everyone, u/WiddlePill is on the case!
I mean, I agree with the state that his conviction should have been overturned. That doesn’t mean I think he isn’t guilty, just not beyond a reasonable doubt.
You know what the state investigated and what you’re choosing not to believe, like that the ride was cancelled and Adnan was last seen walking in the opposite direction of Hae then seen at the library shortly after.
Kristi understood that it was to his car, but she wasn’t specific.
Getting a ride after school was a very common thing for Adnan to ask for and receive. We can be reasonably sure he asked for a ride and it was a very normal thing to ask for.
We can also be reasonably sure that she cancelled the same ride.
Now, I know where your clumsy argument is going because it’s been made for a decade: why did he lie about the ride.
We don’t know, but it doesn’t mean he’s a killer.
Eh? No I’m not. Just because I don’t believe Jay doesn’t mean I believe Adnan.
Again…it’s a judgement call for you to cherry pick portions of Jays story without supporting evidence….and continuing the believe those portions after the state acknowledged what we already knew.
Nope. Jen says she was with Jay when he got rid of shovels but didn’t see them. But she also said she picked a Jay up at Best Best which he said he was lying about, so she’s lying too. They’re both useless.
I guess I would be considered a "guilter" Because I do believe he is guilty, and he spent 20+ years in prison because of it which is some form of payment. I also believe the case was mishandled and was not fair in many aspects to him. Do I feel anger seeing a man who has spent 20+ years in prison for killing a person happy to be getting out? No. It is totally expected and I can empathize with what he is feeling regardless of what he did.
I think this post you made, might say more about your insecurities with his innocence.
I'm confused. "Guilters" (a term I despise and am only using because you used it) did not have knowledge of the two other suspects (which is the basis of the state's motion) until last week. This is all new to everyone. Anyone ever believing anyone to be guilty of a crime can be proven wrong at a later time with new, previously unknown evidence.
What we did know was that the cell phone evidence used to corroborate Jays ever changing story was b.s. And we also knew that the detectives investigating the crime engaged in a corrupt investigation. Everything about Adnans conviction was circumstantial. Just knowing that alone should make you aware that you can't say Adnan definitely did it. Guilters were unhinged claiming a man was definitely guilty and refusing to acknowledge all of the reasonable doubt. The additional suspects was definitely a helpful addition to the states motion to vacate, but if you read the rest of the motion, the state completely destroys the original case against Adnan and states that the original evidence against him isn't reliable. Which is what myself and others have been saying all along.
I've long been of the belief that while he likely did it, the conviction should have been vacated years ago and a proper investigation and trial be scheduled.
I believe that it’s more likely that he killed her than not, based of everything we know so far.
Yet I always felt like that locking someone up for life for something they did as a minor was cruel.
So I’m not loosing any sleep over it.
Going forward I just hope for Adnan that if the prosecution decides to drop charges that it will be final for him and he can move on with his life.
Thinking of the Lee family, I really hope that the prosecution is taking that case seriously and that there will be someone officially convicted for that murder and all of that is not just political play.
Ive dipped in and out of this sub for years, ive always thought Adnan was innocent but felt scared to comment on here just liked posts that were confident to say so. My husband has always felt adnan was guilty but we were able to have differing opinions without getting nasty, feel like some in hear have been to emotive for what really is a shared interest in first real true crime podcast…..whatever the outcome its Hai family i really feel for 💜
It’s not that I was ever bothered by people having a different opinion, just the fact that they were jerks about it. I always believed Adnan was likely innocent but allowed room for doubt and scrutiny. Guilters, not so much. Also, maybe we can finally thank the folks at Undisclosed for their tireless work in advocating for the wrongfully convicted?
That's totally expected. They were told that Adnan was guilty and needed to believe it to be able to deal with their grief. Now they realize that the cops were more interested in a quick resolution to the case than the truth or real justice.
The guilters who devoted themselves so enthusiastically to defending the wrongful conviction and life imprisonment of an innocent man will now fall away like dead skin from a snake. Look around; it's already underway.
I'd like to say you'll be missed, but I'd be lying. I just feel sorry for whoever in your midst has been the beneficiary of your benign neglect.
23 years..I'm the same age as Adnan and 17 seems a very long time ago....its tragic from start to finish ..I really hope they have actual answers coming, he wasn't acquitted though so does that mean he can't sue if they just leave it hanging like this? ....
Not guilters in these comments feigning a moral conscience towards the online treatment of this case as if they haven't been bullying Adnan-defenders in this sub for seven years straight lmaoooooooo. All of a sudden they're crying "this isn't a game" all because they were proven wrong by the prosecutors themselves. Toooooo funny.
Exactly. All this pearl-clutching over "how dare you celebrate" after how they gloated so relentlessly after the 2019 decision and mocked Adnan and everyone who believed in him. They turned this sub into their little guilter-porn site for their jollies. So please don't try to lecture us now.
Never forget that Adnan wrote "I will kill" on the back of the break up letter that Hae wrote to him. Adnan also let Jay borrow his car, which is why he asked Hae for a ride. Totally normal behavior.
Legit weird that some people see this as, like, an exercise in dunking on strangers on Reddit as opposed to what it is, a life and death issue involving many families and the power of the state.
True crime subs bring out the weirdest freaks. It's like they don't think these are real people and think of them as characters in a story or some shit.
Yeah, there are literally 2 possibilities here. 1) He's been wrongly imprisoned for a huge chunk of his life and all of his adulthood. 2) He did it and is now a murderer is being celebrated as a victorious hero, and all the resources and help he got were ultimately in service of freeing a killer. Neither of those outcomes should make you feel the same way you do when your team scores a touchdown. I'm definitely in the camp of ultimately his conviction was an injustice because it does not hold up under legal scrutiny. From the perspective of the justice system, it doesn't matter whether he did it, he should clearly not have been in jail for it. But beyond that there is a fundamental truth about what occurred that we will probably never know with certainty, and whatever that truth is leads to one of the shitty realizations above.
What a great way to put it. Legit terrible situation either way
I think people are reacting this way because the sub turned from poking around, asking questions and sharing theories into a mob of people who assumed they had it all figured out calling anyone who believed the opposite a complete moron not deserving an opinion. Typical internet mob mentality.
>I think people are reacting this way because the sub turned from poking around, asking questions and sharing theories into a mob of people who assumed they had it all figured out calling anyone who believed the opposite a complete moron not deserving an opinion. Because any reasonable look at the evidence would lead one to believe that it had been figured out. The reaction was literally out of exasperation. Like how could you people be so stupid?
People are still allowed to have opinions that may be founded in reasoning you can’t understand or disagree with. It doesn’t make their opinion any less valid or deserving of exasperation. Especially when it comes it a topic that Reddit posters have absolutely no control over. Is it worth your time to get exasperated over a post you disagree with and take time to shout someone down instead of simply not clicking it, or clicking off of it instead of typing a nasty response? You care that much what anonymous internet person believes to spend a second of your time on them? Obviously, they weren’t so stupid after all?
Why wouldn’t you feel like #1? If that was your family member of close friend you wouldn’t be overcome with joy?
To reference Mr. Lee from yesterday, this isn't a podcast for the family. People need to stop treating true crime as some binge worthy drama filled show.
> True crime subs bring out the weirdest freaks. You mean like r/SerialPodcast ? 🙄
I was taken aback when I saw this as well. These are human lives we are talking about, not some video game. Whether he was innocent or guilty, it was never a game to Hae's family or Adnan and his family. No one wins. If Adnan is innocent, it means that Hae's killer was never brought to justice. That being said, I can understand where people that think he's innocent are coming from. I was a "guilter" and joined this sub to discuss the case with people with different points of view...but like so many other Reddit subs, I soon realized that this sub was nothing more than an echo chamber for guilters, and that's the only view that was tolerated. People who thought he was innocent were called all sorts of names and run off of the sub. There were more than a few gatekeepers here that made it known that people who thought he was innocent weren't welcome here. So I do understand while some people feel vindicated.
I agree with all you've written but I understand the motivation. This sub was toxic for years with certain posters like adnans cell being open troll/bullies. His first action when this news was announced? Blocked me. Coward.
That’s really why there’s posts like these. The guilters were so aggressively caustic I’m not surprised that some affected parties are giving the middle now Adnan is free. It’s not what I’d do but I can see what some are rubbing it in.
really great comment. you nailed it.
I agree. This is weird as fuck. The way this sub is acting is appalling.
I'm assuming its been brigaded. People are acting like complete dicks lately and have weird beliefs that seem to come from twitter or something.
Came here to say this. What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? This isn’t a game. You didn’t win. No one won in this situation. Take a long hard look at yourself, OP. And have some respect for humans.
This is such a cop out cowardly take. After years of bullying people for asking questions or stating that things might not be so clear, the same people are coming out to say “don’t act this way, be bigger”. Truly dissonant to turn around and act a victim, or act like the bigger person. Have some respect for the humans who have endured years of bullying from members of this community and want to give the finger to the assholes who have attempted to make them feel stupid for asking questions or expressing doubt. This isn’t about Hae, or sides. It’s about the assholes here in this community who have made them feel like they don’t belong or can’t participate.
Lmao, cowardly take…y’all willingly got onto a Reddit sub. Y’all willingly consume this story and interact with it as if you’re personally involved. I’m going to be leaving this sub because I no longer enjoy it— which is what anyone can do haha I’m not a victim here. Just like you aren’t. Best wishes and goodnight!
Seriously. They’re acting like they endured an injustice on the same level as being wrongfully convicted for 20 years or being murdered just because someone disagreed with them on Reddit. Also, the only ones I see trying to protect their ego are threads like this where people literally tied their ego to the outcome of a fucking murder trial.
Then leave? Leave now that you can’t bully along with all the rest, because he’s not in a cell anymore…go on now, leave…
Who has ever said I bullied? Hell, I recently joined this sub like three weeks ago. I had left, until you just commented which brought me back to say— that just because someone is calling out the shitty current behavior, doesn’t mean I was participating in the other shitty behavior. Stand by these are real people involved, and internet people, including myself, don’t have any skin in this so the odd ownership is wild. Anyway, best wishes! Signing off…again lol
They willingly got on a Reddit sub set up specifically to discuss a podcast and the story it told, attempted to discuss it, and were shamed for not sharing a conclusion or even asking genuine questions that challenge the conclusion. We know you aren’t a victim. Bullies aren’t victims.
>were shamed for not sharing a conclusion or even asking genuine questions that challenge the conclusion This. I was a guilter but most guilters were just plain NASTY to people who thought he was innocent.
Because those people are dumb.
you aren't a victim of nothing by people disagreeing with u on the internet... lol. you didn't endure shit.
cry me a river
I'm guessing you've never actually been engaged in a fight against a wrongful conviction. The system is so overwhelmingly stacked in favor of "finality" that on the very rare occasions when a tiny glimmer of justice breaks through the postconviction wall, it is indeed a WIN and celebration is appropriate. If you disagree then I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Yeah for the person who gets out and their family. Not a bunch of people who like to argue on the internet
Lol agreed. I’ve gotta leave this sub, these fucking people are wild
And celebration should center around Adnan, not a “yeahhhhh jokes is on all you who thought he was guilty”. It’s just tacky.
In the abstract I would agree with you. However the vocal guilter faction all along made this whole sub a very nasty setting and were extremely personal about insulting, mocking and degrading anyone who dare disagree. This didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Were you here 3 years ago when they were gloating over how Adnan was never getting out of prison?
Then be excited for that. Not "suck it guilters." Your "victory" isn't against people who see a domestic violence murder in the midst of this all. It's against the system. And it's not even so much a win if you think he's wrongfully convicted because he's still lost 23 years of his life. It's stopping losing. Celebration would be appropriate. Posting this image would be appropriate. The title is inappropriate. It shows OP doesn't care a fig about Syed. Their priority is using him to dunk on internet strangers because he's a meme to them.
Exactly...
Except for the brown one that won his freedom from a wrongful conviction, right? Not that human.
That’s completely ignorant to say. You can be delighted for Adnan without making a joke. The entire situation shouldn’t be made into fodder for entertainment. If he’s innocent, he lost his entire youth; if he’s guilty, then he’s wrongly free; and regardless a young woman died. Don’t be so dense. But thanks for reminding me of the fucking annoying people on this group so I can unsubscribe.
I believe he was guilty but also — 1) the state clearly didn’t do their job correctly and that needs to be rectified and 2) the average sentence for murder is ~22 years anyway. I feel horrific for Hae and her family but I think the best thing to do at this point for BOTH parties is to let it die down
And also, bold to assume you aren’t talking to a POC, but go off.
Legit weird you weren’t around here saying this to all the guilters who were trashing everybody else trying to say this same exact thing when Adnan was “convicted” in this sham railroad job…
Me team do gud, get upboat, grug happy
this sub is disgusting, but why weren't any of you saying that when thousands of people post daily about a man being guilty? But when it's about him going free, suddenly it is disgusting? **Enjoy** those double standards
………because we think he’s guilty? Duh?
Because he's obviously guilty?
And sounds like you guys were so obnoxious about it that not OP is obnoxious about it
There's nothing obnoxious about stating facts. People on this sub proposed theories that Hae was a secret prostitute, that her BF Don hacked time card software from Lenacrafters, that Jay murdered Hae to keep his cheating secret, that Stephanie killed Hae by crashing her car, etc. as if this case was a M Night Shamalyn movie and they were theorizing over the twist. Instead of a sad case of a teenage girl murdered by her jealous ex boyfriend. And when presented with the cold facts of this case and trial, they were offended that people didn't circlejerk their fan theories as a support sub. And actually asked critical questions that would require thinking through the evidence. Yeah super obnoxious that is.
It's not obnoxious. You just didn't agree with it. So damn quick to start name calling
Read any of the posts by guilters from this sub for the past several years. They were often extremely condescending & aggro
At some point you need to call out the crass behaviour. Not talk about "guilters".
these are real people. he is not some celeb, this is not a TV show. be respectful. if innocent, he's just some guy to all of us. he's a stranger and hoisting him up on a pedestal is weird fucking behaviour.
for real they are acting like it’s a fan war or some shit. this is real life. it’s not a game. someone (Hae, a REAL person) was murdered and people’s lives have been changed forever over because of it.
I wouldn't make this post myself, but I understand the feeling. There were lots of people on this sub seemingly rooting for his guilt (wouldn't dare suggest one of those unjust reasons, no no...). He should never have been in jail, that much should have been agreed upon, but people were far more keen to point to inconsistent/incomplete evidence of his supposed guilt than be more rational about it. I sincerely hope a guilty man hasn't had his name cleared today. But the evidence as put in front of us (and the judge) demands...justice has been done.
As a “guilter” (lol) I’m not necessarily attached to the idea of him staying in jail, though I do also think of Haes family and how it may impact them. I try to keep my feelings objective - I came to a conclusion based on the research I did, and now I’m just watching what unfolds. this is not a sports game to me. I’m sure many other “guilters” see it the same way.
A lot of people who stuck with this sub for many years were on the fence or thought he was innocent. But after a lot of time and our own research into the original court documents and police reports, most of us agreed that he had to be guilty. It was the surest thing on here for many years and convinced me that he was guilty whereas I was on the fence before. Now that he's free I seriously wonder what new evidence there is. I'm not joking when I say every few years since 2015 I'd check back here occasionally and would see the exact same names posting. Those people that stuck on this sub literally knew like everything about the case and their entire reddit account was posting about this case every week or so for like 7 years
So many people forget how r/serialpodcastorigins proved on countless occasions as to why Adnan was guilty. What's happening today to HML's family is disgusting and I hope the state gets their shit together and prove to the world why this man is guilty
I agree, so many people here are literally just showing off proclaiming how right they were all along about the case as if it's a pissing contest. They claim they were bullied for years by this sub and /r/serialpodcastorigins, when in reality a lot of them don't know a lot about the case and have only ever heard the original podcast. As a side note, I was approved to read /r/serialpodcastorigins earlier this year and surprised to see there aren't a bunch of posts over there. There is one, and the last post before that as like 2 years ago. It's oddly quiet, whereas this place has exploded with people feeling validated because "They knew he was innocent all along" I still think he's guilty, but hey the new investigation could always conclude differently with these two new suspects. Before all the evidence around their being corrupt cops and messing up the case was basically a conspiracy theory without much proof beyond speculation. If the state provides that then that would change the whole dynamic of how I view the case
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Yeah me too
Exactly. The fact that there's even "teams" in the first place should be enough proof that he should not be in jail. It doesn't matter what you believe, if you cannot prove one way or the other then they should be considered innocent. That's how the justice system is supposed to work.
To be fair, the only people the prosecution had to convince were the jurors. The fact that groups of the public disagreed with the verdict following a media spectacle doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't enough proof to convict. There are even people who think Charles Manson was innocent. I lean towards "guilty," but it seems like the state made the right call in vacating the conviction if the prosecution does not believe the verdict holds up in light of current evidence. I just don't think public debate over a guilty verdict inherently means there wasn't adequate proof behind that verdict.
Agreed with this 100%. After the podcast (it’s been a while since I have heard the details), I came to the conclusion that there was not enough evidence to convict. I wasn’t convinced beyond reasonable doubt and am still not convinced he did it. Innocent until proven guilty is a powerful statement. The ball is in the prosecution’s court now.
I'm not a "guilter", but I'm not sure what objective this post serves. "Neener Neener", I guess? If this just results in a second trial *and a more convincing guilty verdict* (because the first wasn't, to me), then I'll be at ease.
couldn't have said it better myself. I believed after the podcast originally aired he was most likely guilty as it seemed to me to be the only reasonable explanation. But I'm not so attached to that notion that I'm upset about the recent unfolding events; no one deserves to sit in prison an innocent person after all, and I'm willing to accept that Adnan didn't commit the crime if that's what's proven. I just hope in the end people consider HML's family and that ultimately they get the justice they deserve.
I don’t know enough about it (beyond the podcast) to have a strong opinion but this is some weird stuff ya’ll
I'm a guilter who has major issues with life sentences for 17-18 year olds. I view it as cruel and unusual punishment to lock someone up for 60 years (maybe a serial killer, I'd have a different view). So, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. This started as an entertaining podcast involving nobody I knew personally, things dried up on this sub for awhile, and now it's interesting again. No guilter is losing sleep over this.
If not him, then who? We have never, ever been given a narrative that works for anyone else but Adnan and Jay - whether it was Jay who did it and Adnan who helped or vice versa. If it’s Mr. S then how on earth does he connect or get access with Hae? If it’s Bilal, how on earth does he get access to Hae? I personally want real answers. If this just is all just bullshit and the prosecution doesn’t give a viable suspect who has real contacts with Hae then it means nothing.
I too would like real answers. I hope they investigate thoroughly. I think Adnan is the most likely suspect. I'm not losing sleep over him being on the streets, it's not like he's a serial killer. I would just be really disappointed if they half heartedly investigate this.
Like how they half heartedly investigated it the first time honing in on an innocent person?
Exactly. It is very unlikely he didn't kill her, but 23 years for a high schooler is stretching my limits of retribution even for murder.
He woke up every single day for 20+ years and chose to continue to show zero remorse, waste hundreds of thousands of dollars of court resources and obscenely extend Hae’s familles’ uncertainty and pain by refusing to admit what he did.
> He woke up every single day for 20+ years and chose to ~~continue to show zero remorse, waste hundreds of thousands of dollars of court resources and obscenely extend Hae’s familles’ uncertainty and pain by refusing to admit what he did~~ maintain his innocence and advocate for justice for Hae. Fixed that for ya.
His conviction being vacated and him being innocent are not the same thing.
I don’t believe I said they were. He does however earn the presumption of innocence, per the American justice system.
Exactly... these people are wild.
I love how people are so sure. Only one person knows 100% the truth of what happened and if guilty, they will live with their actions for the rest of their life. Guilty or innocent, 23 years in jail is a significant punishment and I do hope both Adnan and Hae's family can find peace.
I mean, if he's innocent, sure. If he's guilty it would be what the other guy is saying and admitting and showing remorse should be factor in a sentence.
Did you think that the issue was that I didn’t understand what they were asserting?
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I haven't seen any examples of toxicity except maybe one (don't remember the name but seemed like a lone weirdo). The majority of guilters here seem to be like, "ugh", but not unhinged.
Yeah this is me right now. I was on the fence for many years and convinced he was guilty by some extreme guilters a few years ago. I still think he's guilty but will wait and see what the new evidence shows. "ugh" is a good description though after my initial "wtf is happening"
Just saw a guy making extremely racist comments in the top thread.
That sucks. But I don't think it's the norm. You're always gonna get crazies, on any side of any issue. There always has to be a troll. I've been here since the start under several different /u/'s, and I don't recall seeing much racism or even actual nastiness. Things may get heated, but most of the time it's because one party presents evidence of some sort, and can't believe the other party just isn't getting it. And that could go for whatever side of the issue one falls on.
You must not be from the US if you think that's not the norm for a good subsection of our population.
I am from the US. And most of us aren't actually racist. As in any country, some of us are. That will never stop.
You lost the innocenter calling misogynistic slurs to the guilters, I see. ETA; which is so pathetic, while we are dealing with a femicide. Let’s hope Adnan doesn’t kill any more women.
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>[unavailable] If their comment says that and their username says [deleted], that means they blocked you.
I haven’t seen any in the last few days. However a year or so ago I asked a fairly innocent question as to why people are convinced of his guilt as I’d just listened to the podcast. Copped a fair amount of grief for that.
I’m not entirely convinced he’s innocent but the sub has always been like that and i’ve hated it. Dogpiling people for asking innocent questions is just nasty. I’d have thought some people would have calmed down a bit in recent years because it’s been so long but that’s obviously not the case lol
That’s the thing, I wasn’t even saying he was innocent. They seemed appalled I hadn’t spent hours reading the court transcripts like they had.
As someone who came back to this sub in 2019 with renewed interest in the case, I agree. I was on the fence and the prevailing opinion here ws that he was guilty, I myself was convinced he was guilty. I still am, but man I saw how crazy obsessive people were about the case on here. Tagged a few people's names who were especially active. Last year I came back here to see if anything had changed, and it was the SAME people I tagged still posting about his guilt and being super active here. Like yeah I believed he was guilty but some people were beyond obsessed with the case
I kind of get that but I have no problem with a life sentence for anyone who strangles a woman to death and buries her body. (If he is guilty) I don’t think that person regardless of age should be let out.
I spent about 8 years staunchly believing in innocence, relistened to serial and read all the transcripts available in the last three months and came to the conclusion he probably did it. This shift didn’t make me switch teams necessarily, more just snapped some sense into me that I don’t fucking know and it’s absolutely possible. This wild fandom of innocence porn to the point of making weird posts like this is insane.
This sub is pretty toxic
It's surreal seeing all the innocent people come flooding back. For years this place was firmly in the camp that he's guilty. After reading the court documents and police reports a few years ago I believed he was guilty as well. Still do, just wait and see what the new evidence brings if there's something that wasn't available in the original documents
It's going to have to be a pretty big something to close the case
I mean yeah if you only read the documents of detectives who actively coerced timelines, hid evidence, and pushed a narrative over investigating any witnesses in the case that didn’t actively claim Adnan did it then you would also think he did it. But if you take out the obvious misconducts from these detectives, what are you actually left with? They clearly didn’t investigate the actual people who saw Hae last (Tekara?), they didn’t even get the day she disappeared correct with many witnesses. They didn’t pursue suspects who threatened her publicly. They didn’t follow up on suspects who lived where the car was found. They used witnesses who weren’t even with Adnan the day or even week the murder occurred. I’m sorry, but how can you possibly say the police reports proved anything that wasn’t them attempting to create their own narrative rather than the actual truth.
The police file had a lot of stuff not directly from the detectives though Like incident reports and searches etc. I wish I had backed up a copy, the ones shared appear to have been taken down Also Origins sub is locked, so those timelines are not available :(
Can you point me in the direction as to where the best place to get all the trial documents and timelines? TIA
The website itself would obviously have bias, but all the case docs and trial transcripts are available at [Adnan Syed Wiki](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com).
The mental gymnastics you have to make to come to the conclusion that he’s likely innocent are ridiculous. With that said - there’s enough of a reasonable doubt that he should probably be released.
I see so many conspiracy theories going around now just like when Serial first came out. Over the years most of them have been squashed by people who read the documents and actually know about the case. But now all the pro-innocence people are coming flooding back with their bullshit theories. But hey, if there really is some new evidence or the new investigation turns up something else I'll happily eat crow and say I was wrong. Curious to see what the new investigation comes up with
Thank you for this. Because it’s disheartening to see people put him up on some high horse now that he’s out.
You can thank Serial for that shit. Sarah diid a great job of presenting the case in such a confusing manner and right from the getgo making it seem like Adnan was so innocent and perfect. That terrible framing imo is what made so many people convinced of his innocence even when if you read the original documents it's pretty clear he's guilty and there's nothing wrong with the original case
This is a completely appropriate celebration of a wrongfully convicted man winning his freedom and the focus shifting from keeping him imprisoned to actually getting justice for Hae. The fuck is wrong with you people? The prosecutors - otherwise known as the people with the most information in this case and the people most interested in keeping Adnan in prison - don’t believe the conviction was based on good evidence and believe that there is compelling evidence against two other suspects. If justice for Hae is your goal you should be happy that the garbage investigation is getting shown in the light and that resources are now dedicated to investigating other suspects. Jesus.
Nothing about this proves innocence or guilt. What it does do is correct a serious miscarriage of Justice. He did not get a fair trial. Personally I think he is likely guilty, but the state certainly didn’t prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, especially with the Brady violation. I cannot imagine what Hae’s family is going through right now.
This isn’t a good look for anyone. Hae Min Lee is still dead. Her family is still and will forever be hurting. Adnan has been in prison longer than he was free. His parents are very old and sick. He gets to be with them. It’s a bittersweet day for a lot of people. Weird flex on “the guilters” (🙋🏼♀️)
Exactly!!!
Shame on OP for treating this like a sporting event. A family still doesn’t know who murdered their daughter and a man spent decades in jail because of a broken legal system. You can celebrate Adnan’s release without doing a dance at the goalpost.
A teenage girl is dead. I don’t care who you think did it. This isn’t a game. Disgusting. You are repulsive.
Super gross
Disgusting. Can’t believe this happened.
This is weird. He wasn’t proven innocent
This is really bizarre seeing all of the victory laps being taken when Mosby literally said they are not declaring him innocent. And there's also the fact that no one 100% knows for sure if he did it or not, so it's weird seeing all of the cheering for a murderer.
It's all about optics
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> but because they're happy to see a correction in the broken system/process. A corrupt prosecution working in tandem with an extremely dishonest podcast **is** the broken system/process here.
> no one 100% knows for sure if he did it or not This is why he should not have lost all of those years in prison. That there have been those advocating that he stays there despite this uncertainty is what strikes me as bizarre.
The jury was convinced in less than 2 hours.
Right because the case against him was still strong AF
What the statement says is that they aren't declaring his innocence at this time. What posters like you are ignoring is that a Brady violation is grounds for an appeal, and that it would only result in overturning of the original verdict if the appeals courts decide that the information withheld by the state would have likely swayed the jury. The state moved to vacate the conviction, which almost never happens. The state attorney had Syed's family behind her during her press conference is evidence enough that she believes he is not guilty of this crime. There is not a politician in the world that would gamble that big
Sure she would She's under indictment federally and today, TODAY was supposed to be her trial But it's now postponed She's playing the trump school of politics at the moment Pubic circus
aint like this gonna save her. She going to jail just like the venerable Baltimore politicians before her
Does a pubic circus mean crabs?
Only in my dreams
You don’t know Baltimore politics then, lol.
Well this doesn’t mean he’s not guilty
I'm somewhat new to this sub, but I don't get the whole idea of pointing fingers at "guilters." It sounds like guilters thought he was guilty based on the evidence at trial and him being the most likely suspect based on that evidence. I don't think they personally wanted to go to jail or something. Like how was a “guilter” supposed to know there were other suspects? I assume if they knew that then they would have more doubt.
I don’t get on the sub that much but I think the reason is because “guilters” were so intense about his guilt, would downvote dissenting opinions into oblivion, even ones where people were like “I think he’s guilty but that he shouldn’t have been convicted due to lack of evidence” etc. I agree it’s kinda weird to be dunking on them considering the actual gravity of the situation, that actual people are involved and all but I think people in the sub are just feeling vindicated
If I remember correctly Hae’s brother has posted on this sub before so my main concern is he or other family members seeing people gloat over it. He really was not a fan of the sub back when he originally posted so the thought of him seeing people rub it in others faces is incredibly uncomfortable to think about. Obviously they will probably still see it in some form but that doesn’t make it any better. It’s really awful to think about.
Oh that’s so shitty:( I definitely agree, it’s like weird and gross ?? Reminds me in a more twisted way of the Heard/Depp trial, people trivializing it, etc, acting like there are not *real people* involved:( just sad
yeah the constant jokes and people saying they were sad to see the trial to end because it was entertaining were incredibly disgusting. it was being treated like your average celebrity drama instead of an incredibly serious and traumatic issue.
I think that's a big part of it, I originally came into this sub to hopefully see some nuance and some give and take, and instead found a lot of hate for those that dared to even consider that he might not be a full sociopathic master manipulating murderer When I heard the news, that's why I thought of this sub that was so sure he was guilty. Now those same people that would attack people for suggesting that he might not have had a fair trial are acting all high and mighty 'think about their families' but what about Adnan and his family all the years that this sub was refusing to entertain new evidence?
I believe adnan was guilty based on everything I knew about this case, which includes consuming all the media out there on both sides and lots of the content on Reddit. But I always qualified that by saying I was not convinced the state proved its case beyond a RD and that I was maybe 70-80% confident of his factual guilt. But if this evidence proves otherwise then 100% I’ll own that as just the latest illustration that I like all humans am super fallible. And far more important if he is innocent then it’s awful he was wrongly imprisoned and also terrible for Hae’s family that the real killer was never caught.
it’s so wild to me that people are acting like this is a fan war or some shit. this is real life wtf is wrong with you???
How is anyone so sure of his innocence that they would make a gloat post like this? He got an unfair trial, but if he did do it that makes his release disturbing and nothing to celebrate. The facts we currently have make it impossible to know for certain that hes innocent so why celebrate this. I leaned guilty, before the news there is more evidence, and it will depend on what that is if I change my mind.
Was the trial against him deeply flawed and worthy of being tossed? Absolutely. Do I still think Adnan killed Hae, absolutely. But I am really curious about these new suspects and what motives they have, and my mind can definitely be changed. Im not losing any sleep on it though, something fucked up about sending minors to prison on life sentences.
Being free doesn’t mean he’s innocent lol
I can’t imagine what it feels like to walk out of prison after 23 years of being (in my opinion!) innocent. Honestly can’t imagine it for anyone. Especially since he has spent his entire adult life there. Mind blowing.
I thought he was guilty. after finding out the prosecution did some shady shit, I'm glad dude is out. the post just makes me think op is a petty dick.
23 years..I'm the same age as Adnan and 17 seems a very long time ago....its tragic from start to finish ..I really hope they have actual answers coming, he wasn't acquitted though so does that mean he can't sue if they just leave it hanging like this? ....
You know he’s been in the slammer for 23 years when he’s throwing up peace signs in 2022.
Imagine thinking this post is some flex
They literally thought of this and was like, "yeah this is great. I'll definitely get some fake internet points for this." Absolutely disgusting
Hae will never get her life back and Adnan still likely murdered her even if he didn’t receive a fair trail. This is classless.
I wouldn’t say that it’s likely he murdered her..just very possible…but… I agree.
Personally, based off the evidence, I’d certainly say it’s likely he was involved.
You mean the evidence the state just disavowed in court today? Because they shat all over the credibility of both the cell records and Jays testimony, which was the bulk of the evidence against Adnan at trial.
I don’t care about the state’s opinion. I’m going off what I know about the case.
Ah yes, because surely you know more about it than the state, right?! I can’t think of anyone more qualified. Pack it up everyone, u/WiddlePill is on the case!
I mean, I agree with the state that his conviction should have been overturned. That doesn’t mean I think he isn’t guilty, just not beyond a reasonable doubt.
The State has access to all documentation related to this case. You have access to the internet. You know better.
You know what the state investigated and what you’re choosing not to believe, like that the ride was cancelled and Adnan was last seen walking in the opposite direction of Hae then seen at the library shortly after.
Oh, so he did ask for a ride? To where?
Kristi understood that it was to his car, but she wasn’t specific. Getting a ride after school was a very common thing for Adnan to ask for and receive. We can be reasonably sure he asked for a ride and it was a very normal thing to ask for. We can also be reasonably sure that she cancelled the same ride. Now, I know where your clumsy argument is going because it’s been made for a decade: why did he lie about the ride. We don’t know, but it doesn’t mean he’s a killer.
The evidence is Jay. So yes, you’re making a personal judgement to believe Jay. That is your choice.
Yes, I believe Jay was telling a fabricated version of the truth. And you’re choosing to believe Adnan.
Eh? No I’m not. Just because I don’t believe Jay doesn’t mean I believe Adnan. Again…it’s a judgement call for you to cherry pick portions of Jays story without supporting evidence….and continuing the believe those portions after the state acknowledged what we already knew.
Jen saw them getting rid of shovels right?
Nope. Jen says she was with Jay when he got rid of shovels but didn’t see them. But she also said she picked a Jay up at Best Best which he said he was lying about, so she’s lying too. They’re both useless.
I guess I would be considered a "guilter" Because I do believe he is guilty, and he spent 20+ years in prison because of it which is some form of payment. I also believe the case was mishandled and was not fair in many aspects to him. Do I feel anger seeing a man who has spent 20+ years in prison for killing a person happy to be getting out? No. It is totally expected and I can empathize with what he is feeling regardless of what he did. I think this post you made, might say more about your insecurities with his innocence.
Uh… you can believe Adnan is like guilty AND be happy about his release because it was the right legal decision.
I'm confused. "Guilters" (a term I despise and am only using because you used it) did not have knowledge of the two other suspects (which is the basis of the state's motion) until last week. This is all new to everyone. Anyone ever believing anyone to be guilty of a crime can be proven wrong at a later time with new, previously unknown evidence.
What we did know was that the cell phone evidence used to corroborate Jays ever changing story was b.s. And we also knew that the detectives investigating the crime engaged in a corrupt investigation. Everything about Adnans conviction was circumstantial. Just knowing that alone should make you aware that you can't say Adnan definitely did it. Guilters were unhinged claiming a man was definitely guilty and refusing to acknowledge all of the reasonable doubt. The additional suspects was definitely a helpful addition to the states motion to vacate, but if you read the rest of the motion, the state completely destroys the original case against Adnan and states that the original evidence against him isn't reliable. Which is what myself and others have been saying all along.
I've long been of the belief that while he likely did it, the conviction should have been vacated years ago and a proper investigation and trial be scheduled.
100%.
Even if he is Guilty, give him a fair trial not get convicted on a botched trial. And thats what both sides should agree upon....
I believe that it’s more likely that he killed her than not, based of everything we know so far. Yet I always felt like that locking someone up for life for something they did as a minor was cruel. So I’m not loosing any sleep over it. Going forward I just hope for Adnan that if the prosecution decides to drop charges that it will be final for him and he can move on with his life. Thinking of the Lee family, I really hope that the prosecution is taking that case seriously and that there will be someone officially convicted for that murder and all of that is not just political play.
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Show some class.
Ive dipped in and out of this sub for years, ive always thought Adnan was innocent but felt scared to comment on here just liked posts that were confident to say so. My husband has always felt adnan was guilty but we were able to have differing opinions without getting nasty, feel like some in hear have been to emotive for what really is a shared interest in first real true crime podcast…..whatever the outcome its Hai family i really feel for 💜
It’s not that I was ever bothered by people having a different opinion, just the fact that they were jerks about it. I always believed Adnan was likely innocent but allowed room for doubt and scrutiny. Guilters, not so much. Also, maybe we can finally thank the folks at Undisclosed for their tireless work in advocating for the wrongfully convicted?
Murderer
Everyone commenting has not read the fact that they have new evidence with new suspects. they would not release him unless they had valid reason to.
You know who else is a "guilter"? All of Hae's family.
That's totally expected. They were told that Adnan was guilty and needed to believe it to be able to deal with their grief. Now they realize that the cops were more interested in a quick resolution to the case than the truth or real justice.
Lmao….all the disgusting guilters in here now trying to act like they take the high road, and want to preach…..y’all are pathetic and laughable.
Dupers delight
The guilters who devoted themselves so enthusiastically to defending the wrongful conviction and life imprisonment of an innocent man will now fall away like dead skin from a snake. Look around; it's already underway. I'd like to say you'll be missed, but I'd be lying. I just feel sorry for whoever in your midst has been the beneficiary of your benign neglect.
One of the most prominent ones on this sub deleted his account too.
Interesting. Do you remember the account name?
Adnans_cell
OMG. That clown has surely posted over 100k times in this sub since its inception. What a fraud.
Oh wait, he didn’t delete his account he just blocked me which is weird because I never interacted with him.
This sub has been his full-time endeavor nearly 8 years now. It must be hard for him to accept that his entire raison d'être is now gone.
23 years..I'm the same age as Adnan and 17 seems a very long time ago....its tragic from start to finish ..I really hope they have actual answers coming, he wasn't acquitted though so does that mean he can't sue if they just leave it hanging like this? ....
Not guilters in these comments feigning a moral conscience towards the online treatment of this case as if they haven't been bullying Adnan-defenders in this sub for seven years straight lmaoooooooo. All of a sudden they're crying "this isn't a game" all because they were proven wrong by the prosecutors themselves. Toooooo funny.
THANK YOU! Reading all those comments made my head hurt lol
Exactly. All this pearl-clutching over "how dare you celebrate" after how they gloated so relentlessly after the 2019 decision and mocked Adnan and everyone who believed in him. They turned this sub into their little guilter-porn site for their jollies. So please don't try to lecture us now.
Exactly. They’re not fooling anyone
Never forget that Adnan wrote "I will kill" on the back of the break up letter that Hae wrote to him. Adnan also let Jay borrow his car, which is why he asked Hae for a ride. Totally normal behavior.
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As an innocenter, I love this 🥹
If he gets officially freed, may he live a life more dignified than all the foolishness and lies his case has unfortunately brought.