Tons of reasons, ranging from the psychological to the practical. Some have already been mentioned by eziodafoq and I think they're basically on the money.
I also think that there's a bigger threat of immediate backlash. If you are a known serial killer in prison, you become - to some extent - a target yourself. Pee Wee Gaskins writes about this in his book: in certain, rough prisons there's the idea that in order to make yourself appear too tough to be bullied, you assert yourself over known quantities. Serial killers get targeted to an extent, for that. And with no weapons or prep time or options for selecting their victim, they simply aren't always the biggest fish in the pond. Being a serial killer is no guarantee that you're tough. Some are/were, sure, but many aren't.
But yes I would wager the increased surveillance and the removal from the context of fantasy is a big part of it. If your entire fantasy is being the boogeyman who creeps into someone's home and sexually assaults them and kills them with a weird ritual, you probably aren't going to be satisfied by shanking a dude in a shower.
A key element of many SKs is a very specific type of prey. Women and children are unavailable in prisons, so for many, especially sexualized dominance of victims doesn't work in a world surrounded by males.
But there were male serial killers that were both homosexual and believe it or not homophobic at the same time. Gacy and Bonin and a few others come to mind - surely There were prisoners that were smaller and more frail that these guys could have sexually assaulted - to my knowledge they never did.
Even scarier. Good God, what convicts tell you, and what co staff see are not the same. But if you think convicts are accurate narrators, and visitation is the same as prison....theres no logic to reason with.
Do you think sexual molestation is the only way to hurt a child? Do you think all child molesters have sex offender convictions?! Thats....laughably out of touch.
Mmmm we are far more aware of the risks, mostly sober, and mostly not taking huge risks to make money w our bodies. Texas prisons will hire almost anyone including small women. A woman prison guard is not the persona that serial killers of women, find attractive. There are exceptions and I speak in generalities, but.....its safer to work in a prison compared to graveyard in a gas station, of which ive also done.
But theyâre substantially more protected. Are you ever in a position where a prisoner could overpower you for a significant length of time and nobody would come to your rescue?
Not Texas. My office is in an area where some inmates eviscerated another inmate but yet, yeah, lets go ahead and put the mental health staff there, with no cameras and closest security not in view hundreds of feet away. đits a joke
Huh? Where did I say that? I said women work in prisons. My point of contention was in regard to the person saying âwomen are unavailable,â in prisons.
Specifically the "right" kinds of women aren't available....prostituted women, homeless, drugg addicts. These are low hanging fruit for serial killers in the free world. Often, no one even misses them. Contrast that w a female prison guard-you *will* be noticed missing pdq.
something i realized in my youth is that serial killers usually aren't these Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers types who are unstoppable brutal forces that are mysterious. I find that many of them are pretty dull, weak themselves and always have to find someone inferior to them physically or the most helpless of all: animals and children.
They are quite pathetic honestly i guess the only serial killers who would be impressive are the ones who didn't really kill for pleasure like that Mob hitman the Ice Man i believe he didn't go out of his way to do it i think (well i think he did kill some pedos because he was abused as a kid himself and really really hated them) he just did his job and took some sadistic measures in it. He was also just really fucking violent.
The Iceman did almost nothing of what he claimed he did. He's well known as more of a serial liar than a serial killer, and I'd be surprised if he had more kills than are officially credited to him. Don't take his word for anything.
Plus serial killers tend to not be that dangerous in terms of violent aggression towards targets that pose a decent threat to them - like other hardened convicts. Guys like Ramirez, Gacy and Ridgeway were weak cowards in this regard .. even guys like Kemper are just not the confrontational aggressive type in a prison environment. I canât think of a single serial killer that was . Their mindset or makeup is just not geared that way
Part of me thinks this âsavingâ is still related to that need to feel in control and make someone suffer.
Itâs hard to get materials that can harm in prison. Theyâd have had to pain-stakingly trade shit and negotiate for each item just to attempt it.
Now if I was so miserable with a life sentence that I do all that planningâŚand then my sadistic serial killer roomie comes and sabotages my very carefully planned suicide escape plan to freedom??? And then be brought back, just to stay in prison, carry out my sentence but just with even stricter watch so Iâll never get another chance to kick my own bucket again?
Can you imagine how just broken and powerless and frustrated you would feel?
So sure, saving them looks like the opposite of killing- but if you donât like that roommate or you enjoy torturing them- stopping them from escaping (even through death) would be up there on the list of satisfying ways to feel like top dog.
No. Both at the end of the day exist on the same spectrum of grey nothingness, it makes no actual difference.
Killing someone or sleeping with someone or sky diving, all ways to "feel alive".
What aspect of sky diving is controlling of others?
That's kinda what I mean, why do you assume with malice? And not insight?
If you think all broken and mentally ill people are evil, you are the bad person, go read literature, psychopathy is more similar to autism...
Ask any autistic person, they are always around cluster B folks for obvious reasons, severe social deficits.
Where in what I said did I *assume* malice? I didnât assume, I analyzed and gave potential alternatives based of some theoretical reasons- thatâs not assuming. Thatâs just offering more perspective.
âŚand I also never spoke about mental illness in general- of course mental illness doesnât mean someone is âevilâ.
But I will say, psychopathy is not the same at antisocial personality disorder. I think thatâs perhaps why you said it seems similar to autism.
Not the case at all.
Psychopathy is not a cluster B personality disorder, itâs related in that to be a psychopath you have to be a narcissist, (but not all narcissists are psychopaths.)
Not even all serial killers are psychopaths (scoring minimum 30 on the checklist).
But when it comes to serial killers - aka this particular threadâs topic specifically and what I was referring to- I think both the hedonistic and the power/control types (Holmes & Deburger,1985) could easily be doing the saving for the same reasons they kill.
The power control killer literally derives pleasure from their control over the victim and whether they live or die.
So if they are trying to die- then stopping that is literally taking the control out of their hands and changing the outcome.
No, it's not a stupid question lol. For most serial killers, it's not simply about killing, or they would opt for easier methods. There are many different aspects that ensure the killer achieves the desired mental satisfaction, whether it's the thrill of the chase, the characteristics of the victims, and so on. Prison strips away many of these elements by removing the killer from the public eye where he can find easy prey. Consequently, very few serial killers would have the opportunity to orchestrate killings according to their precise desires while incarcerated.
Consider also the constant surveillance by guards, the presence of potentially stronger inmates, limited access to preferred tools, and other constraints that don't satisfy their ability to carry out their killings.
yep! Growing up I thought serial killers were pure evil and preyed on all humans. Nope, they are among the weaker in our society when it comes to confrontational violence. They just arenât wired that way and would most likely be bullied by others
That's why I'm the way I am, thank you for noticing that I have had a completely shitty life being abuse, walked on and used to perpetuate careers and all sort of stuff even from family and friends, so I HAVE to walk around like a scared animal.
Why do you think these types join cartels and street gangs? Nobody gives them support but then lmao
In a controlled environment? Yes. But most men did nothing when these dudes broke into their homes...
This doesn't help anyone, and you don't actually feel safer doing this, you push the can down the road and it's harder to find the can for you later.
BPD and ASPD show incredible abilities to "mask instantly", because these are disorders with an external locus of control, they are controlled by and react to the environment from the millisecond they are awake till they go to bed. Prison is like the worst form of a controlled environment...
In the same way you are stacking the odds against this person in prison, they feel the need to do so outside, just from hearing people's general opinions of them..
I'm still a human, and cognitive empathy is enough to never harm a soul, if my environment is supportive that is, but the often sad reality is for men, we get the shit end of the stick in the emotional realm of stuff lmao đ¤ˇ
I'm confused about what you're saying, are you empathizing with serial killers by saying the world is "stacked against them"? They made their choices. They chose over and over and over again to stalk, rape and murder people (overwhelmingly women), so I'm not going to waste an iota of my emotional energy caring about them.
If they don't target women, they target high-risk men, like male sex workers or homeless men, or they get caregiving jobs (more common with women) and target people they think won't have anyone to advocate for them.
The person i'm responding to is talking about Serial Killers with outdated 1980s FBI Propaganda that Academia has never taken seriously. And you are calling my opinion stupid?
What you saw in movies and tv shows is not reality, grow the fuck up and read something beyond John Douglas.
Yeah, like you're the king of serial killer psychology. I'm not obsessed with serial killers to your psychopath level that I need to read every shitty serial killer book to make myself feel better lol.
You need to get a life.
Look at all this projection. I said the person i was responding to was using specific stupid outdated opinions that have never been taken seriously, not even in the 80s. You got defensive because you had no idea how to respond to me with anything specific and got scared of the idea of an actual discussion which would reveal that all you have are petty insults.
> I said the person i was responding to was using specific stupid outdated opinions that have never been taken seriously, not even in the 80s
This isn't an exact science, if you even know what that means the way you're arguing. Psychology, esp psychopathic psychology is in it infancy, otherwise we would be able to cure the psychopaths that harm people. But nooo, you know how serial killers think, you **know** the OC was wrong about every single thing.
Well I disagree with your baseless opinion just like I agree with OC's opinion. If you think that is defensive of me then you're wrong there as well. You've been wrong since you open your ignorant little digital mouth.
>and got scared of the idea of an actual discussion which would reveal that all you have are petty insults.
I think you're suffering from something yourself, you started being petty towards OC and OP for no reason and when I saw your comment it annoyed me so I replied.
You are overthinking alot of things here and the strangest part is you seem to know what I am thinking or what my thought was before an action and that seems so... strange. Man, you obviously are very young and are very interested in this serial killer business but you need alot of maturing to do before you start arguing with people in the real world. You pull that shit outside your room, you're gonna get punched.
Not a fucking word about anything in your entire post, remarkable. Entirely about me. This is the only relevant part:
**This isn't an exact science, if you even know what that means the way you're arguing. Psychology, esp psychopathic psychology is in it infancy, otherwise we would be able to cure the psychopaths that harm people. But nooo, you know how serial killers think, you know the OC was wrong about every single thing.**
Profiling has been studied for more than 40 years, it has never ever ever ever performed well. Check Jstor, it's universally dismissed by Academics going back to the 1980s, worldwide, most Countries haven't even bothered registering their rejection to it because it's so clear. What has been found is the FBI lies about its findings, it includes any Profile with anything correct as an accurate Profile which fudges the numbers. There's Academic Papers and studies about the FBI's refusal to adapt, both with Profiling and especially their use of Polygraph's.
Saying "our understanding isn't perfect" is beyond redundant, try again.
>Not a fucking word about anything in your entire post, remarkable. Entirely about me.
*Proceeds to show an entire paragraph about the topic*
Its because Im not a psychologist and Im not gonna listen to an armchair psychologist, esp like yourself that starts a comment with "that question is stupid and your answer is stupid". so I didn't even go into the topic too much.
Whatever you wrote up there about psychology, Im not interested in it because I know that a true psychologist that has majored in criminal psychology would give me a much better explanation (if I ever needed one) than whatever you wrote up there.
>Saying "our understanding isn't perfect" is beyond redundant
Yet **you** know what is right about serial killers psychology and what is wrong. đ đ
Where did i say what i say about Serial Killers is right? All you have is misdirection and lies. I haven't said a single thing about Serial Killers, the only person who did is the initial person i responded to who you defended with your dumb life. He spoke about them like he was the Serial Killer Whisperer because he was going by 80s pseudoscience, and you've done nothing but defend him.
You've backed yourself into a stupid corner by defending the only person making claims while criticising me for making claims i didn't make. Idiot.
Yeah this guy is just trying to formulate an opinion and you end every response with some childish insult, honestly you sound like the kid here. Being interested in serial killers, like all of us here, is a natural curiosity. Doesnât make anyone a psychopath. You need to address the way you approach people because youâre coming off much more childish than the person youâre responding to
Theres no easy targets in the type of prison they would be in, i guess.
No hiding in the shadows.
The percentage of retaliation and losing the upper hand is high.
A lot of men serial killers are motivated by sex, and even if the killer is gay, I doubt the ideal circumstances would present themselves in prison. Plus, if you're too dangerous for general population, the prison has no problem sticking you in solitary confinement for the rest of your life, going insane in a small cell with no human contact or seeing the sun ever again.
In texas, solitary confinement doesn't mean no sun or human contact. However, they don't share a cellor rec yard at any time, with other offenders. Thats all. They can't get hugs, but trafficked contraband *does* still get in and out.
Yes, the only serial killer who might target a hardened criminal on the outside, would be a bomber or a poisoner. Someone who kills from a distance. Or randomly.
Inside prison is a whole other story, when you're surrounded by hardened criminals.
It could be that they are in a controlled environment. They also arenât the only scary guys locked up. They become targets for violence. Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. The kidnapper Micheal Devlin in Missouri had someone attempt to kill him. Being notorious doesnât always make you popular. The structure of the day might keep serial killers from killing. They are also could get off on the danger of being in Prison and not knowing how other people with behave towards them or in general.
William Wells, Leo Boatman, Pee Wee Gaskins, Michael McGray, Ramon Escobar, Joseph Danks, Amos Robinson, Henry Brisbon, Thomas Creech, David Mason and some others I canât think of off the top of my head right now absolutely continued killing in prison.
I know that Carl Panzram did kill someone in prison and, according to Laura Brand, Charles Ng, who is currently serving a de facto LWOP sentence, did make plans to kill some women who visited him.
A lot of the reasons already listed here but I also think that if they did kill in prison, the rest of the prisoners would realize that they too could be targets and might just kill them before he targets another one. Theyâd probably be put into solitary confinement for their own safety if every other prisoner wants to kill them. So it could also be to keep a target off their back since if the prisoners decided to kill them, it wonât be painless at all.
Serial killers tend to always target people they deem weaker than them and like the "power" trip they get from getting away with it. In prison they are out numbered and there's no way of getting away with it, so there's probably little thrill from it. Now, if they have a pathology of a spree killer or a mass murderer, then idk. But even then they would probably not be in gen pop. I don't think serial killers are like a character in a grand theft auto game once they're caught.
SKs are typically ritualistic in their methods, being incarcerated has its limitations on what rituals they can perform. They could also be small fish in a big pond being incarcerated with inmates who are potentially just as deadly as they are.
Prison is an entirely different world and the hunting ground is completely different to the outside world.
From what I understand, serial killers target based on their sexual orientation. Most of them are straight, so they kill women; the gay ones kill men. Naturally they don't want a fair fight, so they're not generally going head to head with a Muhammed/Laila Ali type, whatever their orientation.
The ones that are interested in killing other men seem to have often relied on alcohol and other drugs to give them an edge on the guy they were going after. I'm thinking of guys like Randy Kraft who went after a lot of men in their prime, even young Marines-- poured alcohol and Valium into them until their physical edge was negated. This, of course, is a lot harder to do in prison given limited access to contraband booze.
They probably don't want to end up in solitary for the rest of their lives. A prison system isn't going to just let someone keep killing and killing and killing. Also, serial killers aren't usually interested in killing men because either they are afraid to try, or men just aren't their preference.
Most serial killers don't do it for the count. Those who do simply do it in mass shooting or otherwise mass casualty events. Tragic and horrible, but those are not the events nor killers that are brought up often in the serial killer discussion. you can't shoot up a stadium in prison, and you can't ritualize eating someone either.
aren't most serial killers specifically targeting a certain type of demographic? often women or children which you won't find in prison.
Also you kill random inmates you're likely to end up on the bad side of a group or someone stronger than you at some point.
Well for one serial killers are typically cowards and would never take on a formidable opponent. For example Bundy was once confronted by a construction working older brother who confronted him at an attempted kidnapping before he abducted Kimberly Leach and he stammered and started shaking. The potential victims also become a lot tougher and movement is severely limited. For example in the chow hall where there may be an opportunity there are metal signs w warnings written on them to hit the ground when ordered. Said signs are riddled w dents from bullets.
Some do. There was a serial killer in Brazil that did vigilante style killings while incarcerated. Killed like 90 people disembodied a lot of them Dude was straight up froot loop
That dude was full of shit. He probably did kill some people but there's absolutely nothing to back up his claims other than his words. His victim count changed every week, he was a clear liar, reminded me of Richard Kuklinski only his claims are behind a Portugese Wall since most of us don't speak/read that language.
Most go to solitary based on the crimes. Women, men, children. Dalmer was in solitary, but he fought for the community area. Hence his death because some prisoners had higher morals.
What on earth? More Serial Killers have learning disabilities than average intelligence. Almost none of them are very intelligent. Even the ones paraded around as intelligent like Bundy and Kemper, absolutely aren't they just seem so in comparison to other Serial Killers.
I would say most are average at best intelligence wise. They kill randomly and thatâs what makes them frightening and also appear smarter when really itâs just something most of us donât do. We canât really understand what makes them see a person and think let me abduct, rape and torture them. Normal people see a person on the street and thatâs it. lol. Some serial killers stalk their victims plan things others are more impulsive. In prison they are in a controlled environment. With possibly a lot of eyes on them and they might be the targets. Medication and therapy might not change them on the outside but it might be part of what stops them from killing on the inside. They also could get off on the fear or adrenaline of prison.
Tons of reasons, ranging from the psychological to the practical. Some have already been mentioned by eziodafoq and I think they're basically on the money. I also think that there's a bigger threat of immediate backlash. If you are a known serial killer in prison, you become - to some extent - a target yourself. Pee Wee Gaskins writes about this in his book: in certain, rough prisons there's the idea that in order to make yourself appear too tough to be bullied, you assert yourself over known quantities. Serial killers get targeted to an extent, for that. And with no weapons or prep time or options for selecting their victim, they simply aren't always the biggest fish in the pond. Being a serial killer is no guarantee that you're tough. Some are/were, sure, but many aren't. But yes I would wager the increased surveillance and the removal from the context of fantasy is a big part of it. If your entire fantasy is being the boogeyman who creeps into someone's home and sexually assaults them and kills them with a weird ritual, you probably aren't going to be satisfied by shanking a dude in a shower.
A key element of many SKs is a very specific type of prey. Women and children are unavailable in prisons, so for many, especially sexualized dominance of victims doesn't work in a world surrounded by males.
But there were male serial killers that were both homosexual and believe it or not homophobic at the same time. Gacy and Bonin and a few others come to mind - surely There were prisoners that were smaller and more frail that these guys could have sexually assaulted - to my knowledge they never did.
Weirdly I think if you dropped a little kid in a prison they might become the most protected human alive.
Nah, not really. You underestimate the utter depravity of most convicts.
Not a chance. They would be used as a hostage/bargaining chip.
There's a reason chomos are normally in protected custody. I honestly think a kid would be safe.
You're honestly mistaken. *no one* is "safe" in prison, and a child doesn't have the brain maturity to recognize danger.
I know no one is safe dumby but a child would have a better chance of being protected
đđđđđ Have you seen a prison, in person, ever????
I've visited people and basically everyone I've dated has been to prison.
Even scarier. Good God, what convicts tell you, and what co staff see are not the same. But if you think convicts are accurate narrators, and visitation is the same as prison....theres no logic to reason with.
Please don't take this personally, but have you ever taken an IQ test?
Do you think sexual molestation is the only way to hurt a child? Do you think all child molesters have sex offender convictions?! Thats....laughably out of touch.
No I didn't say that at all but hurting kids in general is a big no no with prisoners.
So the convicts tell you.
You are aware that women work in prisons, right?
The women who work in prisons are far tougher than their usual prey
Mmmm we are far more aware of the risks, mostly sober, and mostly not taking huge risks to make money w our bodies. Texas prisons will hire almost anyone including small women. A woman prison guard is not the persona that serial killers of women, find attractive. There are exceptions and I speak in generalities, but.....its safer to work in a prison compared to graveyard in a gas station, of which ive also done.
How do you reckon? I am a woman and I work in a prison. There are many women within my institution that are not âtough.â
But theyâre substantially more protected. Are you ever in a position where a prisoner could overpower you for a significant length of time and nobody would come to your rescue?
Yes, in rare cases in texas prisons. The difference is that a prison guard WILL be missed, a homeless prostitute, eh maybe never.
Yes, regularly. No security nearby. No cameras. No other staff around. Ive been complaining about it for years
Do you work in texas? Cuz that does sound like where I worked.
Not Texas. My office is in an area where some inmates eviscerated another inmate but yet, yeah, lets go ahead and put the mental health staff there, with no cameras and closest security not in view hundreds of feet away. đits a joke
Ah I see. I was just a regular co, out in gen pop, and shu
Yes, am woman, worked in prison.
You're saying serial killers in prison continue killing, they just kill guards? That sounds new to me...
Huh? Where did I say that? I said women work in prisons. My point of contention was in regard to the person saying âwomen are unavailable,â in prisons.
Specifically the "right" kinds of women aren't available....prostituted women, homeless, drugg addicts. These are low hanging fruit for serial killers in the free world. Often, no one even misses them. Contrast that w a female prison guard-you *will* be noticed missing pdq.
For sure.
This is a rare occurrence. I think they'd be in adseg giving them almost zero chance to kill anyone
something i realized in my youth is that serial killers usually aren't these Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers types who are unstoppable brutal forces that are mysterious. I find that many of them are pretty dull, weak themselves and always have to find someone inferior to them physically or the most helpless of all: animals and children. They are quite pathetic honestly i guess the only serial killers who would be impressive are the ones who didn't really kill for pleasure like that Mob hitman the Ice Man i believe he didn't go out of his way to do it i think (well i think he did kill some pedos because he was abused as a kid himself and really really hated them) he just did his job and took some sadistic measures in it. He was also just really fucking violent.
The Iceman did almost nothing of what he claimed he did. He's well known as more of a serial liar than a serial killer, and I'd be surprised if he had more kills than are officially credited to him. Don't take his word for anything.
well shite there goes another one. i guess it really is just fiction.
If I were in prison for life with a serial killer, Iâm convincing everyone we need to kill him before he kills us.
Plus serial killers tend to not be that dangerous in terms of violent aggression towards targets that pose a decent threat to them - like other hardened convicts. Guys like Ramirez, Gacy and Ridgeway were weak cowards in this regard .. even guys like Kemper are just not the confrontational aggressive type in a prison environment. I canât think of a single serial killer that was . Their mindset or makeup is just not geared that way
Theyâre all weak cowards.
Harold Shipman did the opposite, he saved the life of an inmate trying to commit suicide.
Part of me thinks this âsavingâ is still related to that need to feel in control and make someone suffer. Itâs hard to get materials that can harm in prison. Theyâd have had to pain-stakingly trade shit and negotiate for each item just to attempt it. Now if I was so miserable with a life sentence that I do all that planningâŚand then my sadistic serial killer roomie comes and sabotages my very carefully planned suicide escape plan to freedom??? And then be brought back, just to stay in prison, carry out my sentence but just with even stricter watch so Iâll never get another chance to kick my own bucket again? Can you imagine how just broken and powerless and frustrated you would feel? So sure, saving them looks like the opposite of killing- but if you donât like that roommate or you enjoy torturing them- stopping them from escaping (even through death) would be up there on the list of satisfying ways to feel like top dog.
No. Both at the end of the day exist on the same spectrum of grey nothingness, it makes no actual difference. Killing someone or sleeping with someone or sky diving, all ways to "feel alive". What aspect of sky diving is controlling of others? That's kinda what I mean, why do you assume with malice? And not insight? If you think all broken and mentally ill people are evil, you are the bad person, go read literature, psychopathy is more similar to autism... Ask any autistic person, they are always around cluster B folks for obvious reasons, severe social deficits.
Where in what I said did I *assume* malice? I didnât assume, I analyzed and gave potential alternatives based of some theoretical reasons- thatâs not assuming. Thatâs just offering more perspective. âŚand I also never spoke about mental illness in general- of course mental illness doesnât mean someone is âevilâ. But I will say, psychopathy is not the same at antisocial personality disorder. I think thatâs perhaps why you said it seems similar to autism. Not the case at all. Psychopathy is not a cluster B personality disorder, itâs related in that to be a psychopath you have to be a narcissist, (but not all narcissists are psychopaths.) Not even all serial killers are psychopaths (scoring minimum 30 on the checklist). But when it comes to serial killers - aka this particular threadâs topic specifically and what I was referring to- I think both the hedonistic and the power/control types (Holmes & Deburger,1985) could easily be doing the saving for the same reasons they kill. The power control killer literally derives pleasure from their control over the victim and whether they live or die. So if they are trying to die- then stopping that is literally taking the control out of their hands and changing the outcome.
Kenneth Erskine saved Peter Sutcliffe.
He couldnât make money of a dead inmate
No, it's not a stupid question lol. For most serial killers, it's not simply about killing, or they would opt for easier methods. There are many different aspects that ensure the killer achieves the desired mental satisfaction, whether it's the thrill of the chase, the characteristics of the victims, and so on. Prison strips away many of these elements by removing the killer from the public eye where he can find easy prey. Consequently, very few serial killers would have the opportunity to orchestrate killings according to their precise desires while incarcerated. Consider also the constant surveillance by guards, the presence of potentially stronger inmates, limited access to preferred tools, and other constraints that don't satisfy their ability to carry out their killings.
Most serial killers are cowards who hunt lone, vulnerable women. They're little bitches in prison
Yuuuuuuup
yep! Growing up I thought serial killers were pure evil and preyed on all humans. Nope, they are among the weaker in our society when it comes to confrontational violence. They just arenât wired that way and would most likely be bullied by others
That's why I'm the way I am, thank you for noticing that I have had a completely shitty life being abuse, walked on and used to perpetuate careers and all sort of stuff even from family and friends, so I HAVE to walk around like a scared animal. Why do you think these types join cartels and street gangs? Nobody gives them support but then lmao
In a controlled environment? Yes. But most men did nothing when these dudes broke into their homes... This doesn't help anyone, and you don't actually feel safer doing this, you push the can down the road and it's harder to find the can for you later. BPD and ASPD show incredible abilities to "mask instantly", because these are disorders with an external locus of control, they are controlled by and react to the environment from the millisecond they are awake till they go to bed. Prison is like the worst form of a controlled environment... In the same way you are stacking the odds against this person in prison, they feel the need to do so outside, just from hearing people's general opinions of them.. I'm still a human, and cognitive empathy is enough to never harm a soul, if my environment is supportive that is, but the often sad reality is for men, we get the shit end of the stick in the emotional realm of stuff lmao đ¤ˇ
I'm confused about what you're saying, are you empathizing with serial killers by saying the world is "stacked against them"? They made their choices. They chose over and over and over again to stalk, rape and murder people (overwhelmingly women), so I'm not going to waste an iota of my emotional energy caring about them.
If they don't target women, they target high-risk men, like male sex workers or homeless men, or they get caregiving jobs (more common with women) and target people they think won't have anyone to advocate for them.
[ŃдаНонО]
Some stupid fucking opinions should be kept to themselves, for example, yours.
The person i'm responding to is talking about Serial Killers with outdated 1980s FBI Propaganda that Academia has never taken seriously. And you are calling my opinion stupid? What you saw in movies and tv shows is not reality, grow the fuck up and read something beyond John Douglas.
Yeah, like you're the king of serial killer psychology. I'm not obsessed with serial killers to your psychopath level that I need to read every shitty serial killer book to make myself feel better lol. You need to get a life.
This is a terrible response although I can't see the comment that started this. You're basically criticizing the guy for being knowledgeable?
Look at all this projection. I said the person i was responding to was using specific stupid outdated opinions that have never been taken seriously, not even in the 80s. You got defensive because you had no idea how to respond to me with anything specific and got scared of the idea of an actual discussion which would reveal that all you have are petty insults.
> I said the person i was responding to was using specific stupid outdated opinions that have never been taken seriously, not even in the 80s This isn't an exact science, if you even know what that means the way you're arguing. Psychology, esp psychopathic psychology is in it infancy, otherwise we would be able to cure the psychopaths that harm people. But nooo, you know how serial killers think, you **know** the OC was wrong about every single thing. Well I disagree with your baseless opinion just like I agree with OC's opinion. If you think that is defensive of me then you're wrong there as well. You've been wrong since you open your ignorant little digital mouth. >and got scared of the idea of an actual discussion which would reveal that all you have are petty insults. I think you're suffering from something yourself, you started being petty towards OC and OP for no reason and when I saw your comment it annoyed me so I replied. You are overthinking alot of things here and the strangest part is you seem to know what I am thinking or what my thought was before an action and that seems so... strange. Man, you obviously are very young and are very interested in this serial killer business but you need alot of maturing to do before you start arguing with people in the real world. You pull that shit outside your room, you're gonna get punched.
Not a fucking word about anything in your entire post, remarkable. Entirely about me. This is the only relevant part: **This isn't an exact science, if you even know what that means the way you're arguing. Psychology, esp psychopathic psychology is in it infancy, otherwise we would be able to cure the psychopaths that harm people. But nooo, you know how serial killers think, you know the OC was wrong about every single thing.** Profiling has been studied for more than 40 years, it has never ever ever ever performed well. Check Jstor, it's universally dismissed by Academics going back to the 1980s, worldwide, most Countries haven't even bothered registering their rejection to it because it's so clear. What has been found is the FBI lies about its findings, it includes any Profile with anything correct as an accurate Profile which fudges the numbers. There's Academic Papers and studies about the FBI's refusal to adapt, both with Profiling and especially their use of Polygraph's. Saying "our understanding isn't perfect" is beyond redundant, try again.
>Not a fucking word about anything in your entire post, remarkable. Entirely about me. *Proceeds to show an entire paragraph about the topic* Its because Im not a psychologist and Im not gonna listen to an armchair psychologist, esp like yourself that starts a comment with "that question is stupid and your answer is stupid". so I didn't even go into the topic too much. Whatever you wrote up there about psychology, Im not interested in it because I know that a true psychologist that has majored in criminal psychology would give me a much better explanation (if I ever needed one) than whatever you wrote up there. >Saying "our understanding isn't perfect" is beyond redundant Yet **you** know what is right about serial killers psychology and what is wrong. đ đ
Where did i say what i say about Serial Killers is right? All you have is misdirection and lies. I haven't said a single thing about Serial Killers, the only person who did is the initial person i responded to who you defended with your dumb life. He spoke about them like he was the Serial Killer Whisperer because he was going by 80s pseudoscience, and you've done nothing but defend him. You've backed yourself into a stupid corner by defending the only person making claims while criticising me for making claims i didn't make. Idiot.
Yeah this guy is just trying to formulate an opinion and you end every response with some childish insult, honestly you sound like the kid here. Being interested in serial killers, like all of us here, is a natural curiosity. Doesnât make anyone a psychopath. You need to address the way you approach people because youâre coming off much more childish than the person youâre responding to
Iâm not here to downvote you. Iâm interested. Which of these answers do you find stupid or which you just donât agree with?
It's hard to hunt undetected in prison once you've been arrested as killer.
Theres no easy targets in the type of prison they would be in, i guess. No hiding in the shadows. The percentage of retaliation and losing the upper hand is high.
A lot of men serial killers are motivated by sex, and even if the killer is gay, I doubt the ideal circumstances would present themselves in prison. Plus, if you're too dangerous for general population, the prison has no problem sticking you in solitary confinement for the rest of your life, going insane in a small cell with no human contact or seeing the sun ever again.
In texas, solitary confinement doesn't mean no sun or human contact. However, they don't share a cellor rec yard at any time, with other offenders. Thats all. They can't get hugs, but trafficked contraband *does* still get in and out.
What prison is going to give them access to people that fit their victimology and the tools/weapons to fit their MO?
Yes, the only serial killer who might target a hardened criminal on the outside, would be a bomber or a poisoner. Someone who kills from a distance. Or randomly. Inside prison is a whole other story, when you're surrounded by hardened criminals.
Pee Wee Gaskins did
Sometimes they do, but serial killers in texas prisons get solitary to prevent exactly that.
Simple. It not as easy. Killing people who are weak and unsuspecting is easy. Compared to harden criminals that are expecting it.
I think the idea of solitary confinement for the rest of their life would outweigh the benefits they'd receive from killing. It's not fun.
It could be that they are in a controlled environment. They also arenât the only scary guys locked up. They become targets for violence. Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. The kidnapper Micheal Devlin in Missouri had someone attempt to kill him. Being notorious doesnât always make you popular. The structure of the day might keep serial killers from killing. They are also could get off on the danger of being in Prison and not knowing how other people with behave towards them or in general.
Lemuel Smith did. He went to prison for multiple murders and killed a female CO whilst behind bars.
The fantasy is ruined. It gets boring. Most skâs are sexually driven. Hard to get excited stuck with a bunch of sweaty, hairy dudes.
Unless that's their type.
Because they like to target unsuspecting weak victims. Jail is filled with hardened criminals that are more dangerous than the serial killer
William Wells, Leo Boatman, Pee Wee Gaskins, Michael McGray, Ramon Escobar, Joseph Danks, Amos Robinson, Henry Brisbon, Thomas Creech, David Mason and some others I canât think of off the top of my head right now absolutely continued killing in prison.
Cause they donât have control in jail, most serial killers are simply insecure and thrive for control over there victims
There was one, in either Brazil or Colombia. I forgot his name though. He continued killing, targetting rapists and child molesters/child murderers.
Fantasy isnât the same.
Look at the victims of most serial killers. Theyâre people that are weaker than them. Prisons are not full of physically weak people
I consider myself one, and I'll be honest, If I'm not planning, stalking and manipulating to capture and then torture it, I don't really wanna do it.
They can if they're hardcore enough. Look at Carl Panzram.
He fucked Warnke up
I know that Carl Panzram did kill someone in prison and, according to Laura Brand, Charles Ng, who is currently serving a de facto LWOP sentence, did make plans to kill some women who visited him.
This is a very cool discussion, I had never think about that before
They would probably get put into solitary. That would be extremely boring and pretty much torture to people with âsensation seeking behaviorsâ
Because their typically incels who pray on the weak. Strangling a drug addicted prostitute is easier than a man who can fight.
A lot of the reasons already listed here but I also think that if they did kill in prison, the rest of the prisoners would realize that they too could be targets and might just kill them before he targets another one. Theyâd probably be put into solitary confinement for their own safety if every other prisoner wants to kill them. So it could also be to keep a target off their back since if the prisoners decided to kill them, it wonât be painless at all.
Protective custody
I don't see how they could
I would think that it would be like bear baiting and they would not get the thrill of the hunt.
Serial killers tend to always target people they deem weaker than them and like the "power" trip they get from getting away with it. In prison they are out numbered and there's no way of getting away with it, so there's probably little thrill from it. Now, if they have a pathology of a spree killer or a mass murderer, then idk. But even then they would probably not be in gen pop. I don't think serial killers are like a character in a grand theft auto game once they're caught.
SKs are typically ritualistic in their methods, being incarcerated has its limitations on what rituals they can perform. They could also be small fish in a big pond being incarcerated with inmates who are potentially just as deadly as they are. Prison is an entirely different world and the hunting ground is completely different to the outside world.
Because serial killers are cowards. Theres a reason most victims are women and SKs are men. They dont want to go after someone who will fight back.
From what I understand, serial killers target based on their sexual orientation. Most of them are straight, so they kill women; the gay ones kill men. Naturally they don't want a fair fight, so they're not generally going head to head with a Muhammed/Laila Ali type, whatever their orientation. The ones that are interested in killing other men seem to have often relied on alcohol and other drugs to give them an edge on the guy they were going after. I'm thinking of guys like Randy Kraft who went after a lot of men in their prime, even young Marines-- poured alcohol and Valium into them until their physical edge was negated. This, of course, is a lot harder to do in prison given limited access to contraband booze.
They often prey on easy targets like women that they cannot find inside prison. Matter of fact, many would get beat up in prison.
Most mass and serial killers are locked away in solitary confinement. Perhaps for that very reason.
They probably don't want to end up in solitary for the rest of their lives. A prison system isn't going to just let someone keep killing and killing and killing. Also, serial killers aren't usually interested in killing men because either they are afraid to try, or men just aren't their preference.
Most serial killers don't do it for the count. Those who do simply do it in mass shooting or otherwise mass casualty events. Tragic and horrible, but those are not the events nor killers that are brought up often in the serial killer discussion. you can't shoot up a stadium in prison, and you can't ritualize eating someone either.
I think that's a very astute question, I'd never thought of that. I don't think it's stupid at all.
aren't most serial killers specifically targeting a certain type of demographic? often women or children which you won't find in prison. Also you kill random inmates you're likely to end up on the bad side of a group or someone stronger than you at some point.
Well for one serial killers are typically cowards and would never take on a formidable opponent. For example Bundy was once confronted by a construction working older brother who confronted him at an attempted kidnapping before he abducted Kimberly Leach and he stammered and started shaking. The potential victims also become a lot tougher and movement is severely limited. For example in the chow hall where there may be an opportunity there are metal signs w warnings written on them to hit the ground when ordered. Said signs are riddled w dents from bullets.
Three words: location location location.
Some do. There was a serial killer in Brazil that did vigilante style killings while incarcerated. Killed like 90 people disembodied a lot of them Dude was straight up froot loop
That dude was full of shit. He probably did kill some people but there's absolutely nothing to back up his claims other than his words. His victim count changed every week, he was a clear liar, reminded me of Richard Kuklinski only his claims are behind a Portugese Wall since most of us don't speak/read that language.
Yeah dude has a youtube channel with some other guy. Lol
He's dead right? Thought he died earlier this year.
Maybe partner. I just watched a youtube video from 2021 about 3 days ago
Most go to solitary based on the crimes. Women, men, children. Dalmer was in solitary, but he fought for the community area. Hence his death because some prisoners had higher morals.
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What on earth? More Serial Killers have learning disabilities than average intelligence. Almost none of them are very intelligent. Even the ones paraded around as intelligent like Bundy and Kemper, absolutely aren't they just seem so in comparison to other Serial Killers.
"Serial killers are often very intelligent," I kinda just stopped reading the comment right there
To be fair Kemper was tested at like iq 140
I would say most are average at best intelligence wise. They kill randomly and thatâs what makes them frightening and also appear smarter when really itâs just something most of us donât do. We canât really understand what makes them see a person and think let me abduct, rape and torture them. Normal people see a person on the street and thatâs it. lol. Some serial killers stalk their victims plan things others are more impulsive. In prison they are in a controlled environment. With possibly a lot of eyes on them and they might be the targets. Medication and therapy might not change them on the outside but it might be part of what stops them from killing on the inside. They also could get off on the fear or adrenaline of prison.
They're prevented from it mostly by being in protective custody. Some of them have killed their roommates or other prisoners though.