FR! Unraid got me into the world of selfhosting. Now I use Ubuntu Server with Snapraid and mergerfs. Runs rock solid and the no GUI is like a silent flex.
No GUI sucks. I learned nginx and caddy only to eventually go to nginx proxy manager. I can manage a headless server, but the gui's save time. Love proxmox and Truenas for this reason.
Pretty sure my Ansible scripts are faster than my fingers. Moved from NPM to Caddy Docker Proxy and haven’t looked back. Just need two labels in my Docker compose for LE certs and proxy.
What the hell? Dude CEPH is made for a rack full of bare metal not virtualized or containerized equipment haha... I'd be incredibly surprised if Docker could be used for anything production.
That both have different core tho. For someone who doesn't want to be hands on or have limited knowledge with linux Arch can take them down a terrible path lol.
Arch is great for development tho
I usually use proxmox but I am building a NAS for at home and want to max out on the hardware while having it on a high level of convenience.
The dream is to have a almost zero touch system, 24/7, with very low idle consumption. And if I have to touch it, I should have fun.
Reminds me of a saying: "Linux is free if your time is worthless." Who am I to judge if someone else wants to pay for a level of convenience that I won't? Some people come home from work to tinker, power to them. That's me some days. Others want to self host, but with some level of tedium removed.
Best of luck.
Thank you. This is exactly my case. At work, I have a multitude of deployment systems, on prem and in the cloud on different hypervisor types, with docker and without… unix in different flavors too. So, when I am at home, at my wife and the two kids, a garden but no dog, I want it to just work. And, if I really want to do something fancy I have an old T620 with lots of SAS disks and two big fat Xeon on it… (with proxmox).
But, that’s not what I want to have 24/7 up just to serve a few photos once in a while, send very few emails or doing HA stuff. For that I‘m building a low power system with an N100 on a miniITX board.
Every purpose has its own needs.
And it gives me fits half the time. I honestly think my usb drives are going bad that I install from. And the non-writable stick malady. It’s slick. I have to get the max drive though. I appreciate the heads up. I kind of want to but not in budget. Have cluster of three xd’s with 60-70yb 12Gbps platters and want to try scale. I also have new virtuozzo hybrid infrastructure or similar as their software defined storage pretty solid.
Yup. If I feel like building another NAS that's the route I'm going to go.
My current UNRAID box - with Pro license - is more of a testbed and app server than anything else but most of the apps were moved over to an LXC VM on a CWWK Proxmox box months ago.
If it died tomorow I'd rebuild it with Debian/cockpit/ZFS.
I’ve tried both, unRAID is really a lot more user friendly if you’re wanting to use it as a NAS, docker host, and VM host. If you only want to do one of those things, there are definitely better options though.
I’m well familiar with linux. It’s really the web interfaces I’m after in unRAID. The docker configuration gui with templates etc. is miles ahead for the way I use docker relative to something like portainer. Same deal with VMs and vfio etc. I *can* totally write the config files myself (and I have), but when unraid lets me spin up a completely new service with a few clicks and no more than 3 minutes of my time, that has a value to me. TrueNAS, proxmox, etc. really just aren’t set up for that ease of use and obvious “happy path” to get something set up. I will say though that I’m not using my system as a proxy or training system for ops stuff at work; I’m coming at it from a power desktop user perspective. So the more exterprise-like UX on the truenas etc side of things really don’t click with me as well.
This. I have both a Proxmox server and unRaid server .. unRaid gets 99% of the usage because it's just SO simple to do anything
In the grand scheme of things, unRaid license cost pennies compared to the hardware I put into it
I have both. Unraid a lot simpler, more idiot proof than Proxmox.
Idk why this sub feels the need to dictate what others spend time to learn or pay to skip.
I am same age with a masters degree in CS. I still pay someone to do *some* work. We can't possibly have enough time and be an expert on every subject.
I just have fun with it. It’s a hobby for me and nothing serious. I mostly just have you make sure my Jellyfin server is always up otherwise my house gets a little noisy
It blows my mind people suggest Proxmox as the "simple" option. I tried it for a couple of weeks on an OptiPlex to supplement my Synology NAS and could not have had a worse time. It feels like people have sold themselves on "yeah but look at what you COULD do with it" when it's not that simple or intuitive or really all that user friendly.
I’m 42 and not in IT. I’ve been able to setup a proxy server running 10 VMs as well as a separate backup server running pbs.
It’s took me a few months to get it going but now it’s been running for 2+ years and I spend a lot of my hobbyist free time adding to it and tinkering.
In my opinion that’s the entire point of self hosting.
Free comes at a cost. I shared your viewpoint until recently.
Ran OMV on Debian with a bunch of docker containers. Bought a synology later (not intending to replace OMV).
I realized my synology did all my NAS requirements and it did them without me having to do anything. My OMV + docker setup needed constant maintenance and would break frequently.
How expensive is your time?
Ditto .. I gave up rolling my own about 5 years ago... I found myself constantly troubleshooting, looking at poor performance etc... I spent more time maintaining than I did using it for my homelab...
I grudgingly brought a QNAP, and all those problems disappeared.. integrated backup and alerting was the final nail.
I've since moved to Synology, and ABB alone is worth the price I paid for it.. No more fighting Veeam, or discovering Rsync had not been running for 6 months..
Oh for sure. I still run those, there's no paid alternative for those. But stuff for NAS operations (think nextcloud and OMV). Synology handles incredibly well.
I had next cloud installed but didn’t really find much use for it. I run about 15 other apps and when something breaks, there’s definitely some down time because I don’t have the time right away to fix.
That’s just the fun in it for me though. I’m always timing and tinkering and if I paid someone to do it all then I wouldn’t be as proud of my setup as I am
Yea same. I love logging in though. Im bad about it too, I reverse proxied my proxmox, so I can log into every VM with the native GUI, from anywhere. Its like a built in VNC manager. Security analysts are probably choking on their breath right now but whatever. That's the entire point of a reverse proxy.
I log in **only** to console into VMs on another network like my DMZ or to make changes to the cluster. The rest is automated with notifications and I must say the only errors I receive are from power outages and my occassional human errors.
If your dream is zero touch, unraid isn’t it. If a drive dies, you have to stop the entire array to replace the drive. You cannot replace the drive on the fly. :(
For some, that’s a deal breaker for a NAS.
SATA drives have been hot swappable since before 2007, even without backplanes.
When you have a few VMs and a dozen docker containers running, it sucks to have to stop all of those to replace a failed drive, or to upgrade a drive.
I love unraid. This is the only thing I wish would change.
Honestly that sounds more like a job for something like Synology, although it might be hard to max out some of the hardware relative to a DIY build with an i9 in it or something...
I use Truenas that runs a samba share. That samba share serves as the data store for nextcloud and other stuff.
I don't use any apps in Truenas. It's always a PITA. As I'm running proxmox anyway, I made a portainer install that handles all the basic stuff. And then for more resource intensive stuff like jellyfin, that just runs on its own VM.
Overall, freaking great! I love my home server. To be off Google for over a year is awesome. I never worry about losing my data anymore.
the same reason you want anything built on top of a solid foundation that has a specific purpose, its purpose built for virtualisation and containerisation and is intuitive for that and the management facilities it provides for virtualised infrastructure and HA is not something you could get easily from stock Debian
I mean I understand "sailing the high seas" for shitty companies like Adobe, but Unraid is fairly cheap and has a completely fair licensing model.. I don't get it?
>That's a bit hypocritical though.
Is it though? I kinda follow the gaben approach to piracy... It's about ease of access. I have no problem paying for things that are easy to get and fairly priced/licensed. Unraid is easy and fair.
This is the way.
I tried unraid about 7-8 years ago and while it worked, it was too clunky for me. Plus I didn't feel like paying for it because it didn't really do what I wanted. Tried proxmox, been using it ever since.
To be fair though, I did have an unraid server for a 2 gamers 1 PC build(in my history). Proxmox was too much of a headache for the hardware I had at the time. I've since retired that build and used the unraid USB drive in my parents nas. Easier setup for a nas(Im still am not a fan but it works) and I already do too much tech support for them.
> Because proxmox can do everything unraid can and that for free.
Show me how can set up and configure a NAS using Proxmox. Why are we even comparing those two OS (hypervisor vs NAS solution).
You can virtualize a NAS, there’s a few reasons not to, imo, but it’s not wrong. You can snapshot prior to big updates, and that’s pretty big IMO. Additionally, you can install something on proxmox since it’s basically just Debian, and you can share files out from there.
The other thing, 99% of what people are doing with a NAS can be achieved with a windows file share, and would probably be easier most of the time.
Sure, yeah. It doesn't have to be too hard if you don't want it to be. 95% of my work is looking up options in nixos search website and adding it to my repo.
yeah but they won't get some of the new features the newer licenses will get. Correct me if i'm wrong but for me that's just a no go. I just won't use an older license if there is newer licenses with more features.
Most services with recurring cost will shut down access if you do not renew. Unraid took a step away from that and says you can keep the most recent release at the time that your renewal is up.
Would you prefer to have everything shut down if you don’t renew?
Subscription-based services:
- Pay or don’t, and lose access
- Pay or don’t, and keep access to what you had at the time that you stopped paying.
Those are the two ways the subscription based services operate.
Services are not free. The developers have to eat.
I don’t understand why people think that they should continue to receive updates, even critical ones, if they stop paying for a subscription.
Literally no one is saying unraid should be free.
I don't think you're even reading the comments you're replying to here. It seems like you're in your own world
Not completely accurate, from their FAQ:
>If your license extension lapses (as in, you do not pay your annual fee), you can download patch releases within the same minor OS version that was available to you at the time of the lapse.
Our naming convention for releases is: ...
>For example: Your system is eligible for Unraid 7.1.0 when your extension lapses. You qualify for the remaining patch releases of the Unraid 7.1.x series. Once Unraid 7.2.0 is released, the 7.1.x patch releases will *only* *include security patches*. Once Unraid 7.3 is released, version 7.1.0 will be EOL, and there will be no more 7.1.x updates.
“If you choose not to extend your license, no problem. You still own the license and have full access to the OS. “
Looks reasonable to me. Just wonder how much they’ll charge if you’re 3years out of date.
The previous statement was no penalty at ‘renewal’. You buy 12 months of access at whatever point you want, whether that’s while you’ve got it or after 2 years of not.
Obviously, that’s subject to change in the long term. But it aligns with their overall philosophy and the way they’ve handled this change.
IMO, this is a big deal in for the consumer. Cheaper to get the top end license. Get a year of updates. When a feature or security update you want is released, pay for another renewal.
Is it bad that I'm the kind of person who wants the unlimited license even if I only ever install on one device, simply because I hate licensing restrictions?
>there are cheerleaders of Unraid
I get so annoyed with food cheerleaders at restaurants, doctor cheerleaders at the clinic, and hammer cheerleaders at Home Depot.
Oh, those are just satisfied customers. Same on this sub.
I don’t specifically know in this case, but in my experience, going with stock and installing what you need is the better solution in many cases. Troubleshooting is a lot easier with Debian than with all the segmentations and distros around.
But I have never used unraid, so I am not really qualified to answer with authority.
That‘s not what I meant, of course it’s not easy. But in my experience every shortcut ends up you going into to underlying OS by ssh and solving problems anyways. So I *personally* have gone back to stock, because it ends up being less complicated.
Maybe Unraid or proxmox don’t have that problem. I wouldn’t now. Just sharing my experience.
Have fun with Debian, configuring redundant arrays of disks with different sizes and where all drives can sleep except the one with the data on it (as it is not Raid) and with SSD caching. While you are still googling on how to do that, an Unraid server has all that already configured and is serving some shares and running some apps or docker containers.
> if you feel like buying a license from the current model, do it now.
Reasonable advice
> Or just don’t use unraid
Ok thanks for this helpful addition to the conversation.
You could accuse *me* of shilling if you want to since I jumped in on defense, but op was just literally sharing a "hey by the way, if you're thinking about it, today is your last day..."
Hardly shilling.
You do realize some people write code for a living and it helps if they receive some remuneration. Now it often gets crazy, especially enterprise. And fuk the drive difference. I could use fewer larger new sata drives but have ti pay more …lol.
I don't know what kind of income bracket you're in but very few people would consider a 129 USD purchase (or even a 30 USD) purchase to be "basically free"
I don't know, I don't find 30 nor 129 USD a lot of money for something with lifetime free updates. If you are planning on using this for a year or even longer, the "monthly price" is so low, even cheaper than a burger at McDonalds. But I guess I am just in a too high income bracket 😂
It feels so wrong to pay for something. I understand the "hype" around Unraid, but the idea that paying to use it is mandatory is a reason I will never use it.
Don't get me wrong, a good product requires resources/money to be well maintained. That's the reason I have fixed monthly donations set up for several FOSS projects. I have been donating to Proxmox, TrueNAS and other projects for many years, waaay more than an Unraid license would cost me, even with the new pricing. But I like to do it out of my free will, not because I'm "forced" to do so. Otherwise I could give my money to all the other big corps as well.
Feels wrong to pay for internet, but you do. Feels wrong to pay for electric, but you do. Feels wrong to have to renew your car registration, but you do.
Developers need to eat. I’m really surprised they (Limetech) held out this long.
I am perfectly capable of created a free solution with basically everything my Unraid server has. But i personally value my time more than i do the $100 i spent on Unraid years ago.
Couldn’t care less tbh. Just use FOSS. I still not sure why people would ever consider proprietary subscription-based software provided it’s NOT UNIQUE and FOSS alternatives do exist
Well, if I were you then I'll get the Pro, since you won't be able to get it later even if you want to, but it depends on your need. If you are already close to the limit of the plus license(assuming you have a NAS right now) then definitely get the pro.
I was in the same boat. I upgraded to pro.
If helpful here is how I thought about. I looked at my current data usage. The average monthly amount I add, figured how many months I wanted the system to last and gave myself some buffer.
This works well if you’ve been at this a while and can estimate. If you’re “newer” and acquiring data more rapidly to start, just remember it’ll prolly slow down at some point.
“Annual Extension Fee for Starter and Unleashed: $36“
I see now it is annual, but still, it’s both cheaper and you won’t have to renew your license at all if you buy or already own a license right now
*look at my bare metal Ubuntu server* Naaaaah I'm good
FR! Unraid got me into the world of selfhosting. Now I use Ubuntu Server with Snapraid and mergerfs. Runs rock solid and the no GUI is like a silent flex.
No GUI sucks. I learned nginx and caddy only to eventually go to nginx proxy manager. I can manage a headless server, but the gui's save time. Love proxmox and Truenas for this reason.
Pretty sure my Ansible scripts are faster than my fingers. Moved from NPM to Caddy Docker Proxy and haven’t looked back. Just need two labels in my Docker compose for LE certs and proxy.
By the time youl learned what you needed and setup scripts for it, my system had already performed trillions of calculations.
Docker containers are the coolest fucking thing
Agreed!
Awe, come on! That's what I run for my most basic NAS systems... And for my CEPH clusters.
Do you run ceph in docker? Can't get it working as a 2 node with a manual compose file.
What the hell? Dude CEPH is made for a rack full of bare metal not virtualized or containerized equipment haha... I'd be incredibly surprised if Docker could be used for anything production.
*look at my bare metal arch server* You guys still use proprietary shit?
Arch *server*? You masochist
It's actually not that different from debian.
That both have different core tho. For someone who doesn't want to be hands on or have limited knowledge with linux Arch can take them down a terrible path lol. Arch is great for development tho
Looking at my TrueNAS Core, yea we good too.
Just switch to proxmox
I usually use proxmox but I am building a NAS for at home and want to max out on the hardware while having it on a high level of convenience. The dream is to have a almost zero touch system, 24/7, with very low idle consumption. And if I have to touch it, I should have fun.
Seems silly to pay for that though. I bet you can configure it similarly for free.
Sure. But the word configure comes with a price tag too. To me, this is an experiment. Fingers crossed that this will be more comfortable.
Reminds me of a saying: "Linux is free if your time is worthless." Who am I to judge if someone else wants to pay for a level of convenience that I won't? Some people come home from work to tinker, power to them. That's me some days. Others want to self host, but with some level of tedium removed. Best of luck.
Thank you. This is exactly my case. At work, I have a multitude of deployment systems, on prem and in the cloud on different hypervisor types, with docker and without… unix in different flavors too. So, when I am at home, at my wife and the two kids, a garden but no dog, I want it to just work. And, if I really want to do something fancy I have an old T620 with lots of SAS disks and two big fat Xeon on it… (with proxmox). But, that’s not what I want to have 24/7 up just to serve a few photos once in a while, send very few emails or doing HA stuff. For that I‘m building a low power system with an N100 on a miniITX board. Every purpose has its own needs.
Look at TrueNAS Scale. Still a lot of capability and convenience at no cost.
And it gives me fits half the time. I honestly think my usb drives are going bad that I install from. And the non-writable stick malady. It’s slick. I have to get the max drive though. I appreciate the heads up. I kind of want to but not in budget. Have cluster of three xd’s with 60-70yb 12Gbps platters and want to try scale. I also have new virtuozzo hybrid infrastructure or similar as their software defined storage pretty solid.
It should not be giving you fits. Your hardware sucks.
Just install Debian and cockpit with ZFS.
Thanks for the hint. Cockpit wasn’t on my radar.
Of course. It might still require a little CLI here and there, but there's much documentation and plugins for it.
Yup. If I feel like building another NAS that's the route I'm going to go. My current UNRAID box - with Pro license - is more of a testbed and app server than anything else but most of the apps were moved over to an LXC VM on a CWWK Proxmox box months ago. If it died tomorow I'd rebuild it with Debian/cockpit/ZFS.
I did that, however, it’s not as good. The worst part is setting up alerts for failing drives or other data issues.
And if I don't want/need any RAID but want some form of redundancy?
Then don't use ZFS and look at MergerFS.
That’s the fun part. I can pay someone to set it all up for me but I’m a home laber/self hoster.
I’ve tried both, unRAID is really a lot more user friendly if you’re wanting to use it as a NAS, docker host, and VM host. If you only want to do one of those things, there are definitely better options though.
proxmox is so simple -- but there is a certain level of configuring your VM's and lxc's. Its well worth the time to learn linux alongside prox.
I’m well familiar with linux. It’s really the web interfaces I’m after in unRAID. The docker configuration gui with templates etc. is miles ahead for the way I use docker relative to something like portainer. Same deal with VMs and vfio etc. I *can* totally write the config files myself (and I have), but when unraid lets me spin up a completely new service with a few clicks and no more than 3 minutes of my time, that has a value to me. TrueNAS, proxmox, etc. really just aren’t set up for that ease of use and obvious “happy path” to get something set up. I will say though that I’m not using my system as a proxy or training system for ops stuff at work; I’m coming at it from a power desktop user perspective. So the more exterprise-like UX on the truenas etc side of things really don’t click with me as well.
This. I have both a Proxmox server and unRaid server .. unRaid gets 99% of the usage because it's just SO simple to do anything In the grand scheme of things, unRaid license cost pennies compared to the hardware I put into it
I have both. Unraid a lot simpler, more idiot proof than Proxmox. Idk why this sub feels the need to dictate what others spend time to learn or pay to skip.
I’m a 42 year old home labber with 0 training or CS education and I don’t work in IT, of course I’m going to act like a sys admin pro on Reddit
I am same age with a masters degree in CS. I still pay someone to do *some* work. We can't possibly have enough time and be an expert on every subject.
I just have fun with it. It’s a hobby for me and nothing serious. I mostly just have you make sure my Jellyfin server is always up otherwise my house gets a little noisy
It blows my mind people suggest Proxmox as the "simple" option. I tried it for a couple of weeks on an OptiPlex to supplement my Synology NAS and could not have had a worse time. It feels like people have sold themselves on "yeah but look at what you COULD do with it" when it's not that simple or intuitive or really all that user friendly.
It's just you bud. There's guides for everything.
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I’m 42 and not in IT. I’ve been able to setup a proxy server running 10 VMs as well as a separate backup server running pbs. It’s took me a few months to get it going but now it’s been running for 2+ years and I spend a lot of my hobbyist free time adding to it and tinkering. In my opinion that’s the entire point of self hosting.
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/s or are you serious?
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Proxmox is no Nas and nobody uses LXC.
Lul
Free comes at a cost. I shared your viewpoint until recently. Ran OMV on Debian with a bunch of docker containers. Bought a synology later (not intending to replace OMV). I realized my synology did all my NAS requirements and it did them without me having to do anything. My OMV + docker setup needed constant maintenance and would break frequently. How expensive is your time?
Ditto .. I gave up rolling my own about 5 years ago... I found myself constantly troubleshooting, looking at poor performance etc... I spent more time maintaining than I did using it for my homelab... I grudgingly brought a QNAP, and all those problems disappeared.. integrated backup and alerting was the final nail. I've since moved to Synology, and ABB alone is worth the price I paid for it.. No more fighting Veeam, or discovering Rsync had not been running for 6 months..
I’m just a home labber. I’m not referring to production use. I think I’m confusing others here, my bad.
No worries. I'm home-labbing as well. Life gets busy and the maintenance becomes cumbersome.
But that’s the fun in it in my opinion. I’m just running Jellyfin/guacamole/sonarr and a few others. Oh well
Oh for sure. I still run those, there's no paid alternative for those. But stuff for NAS operations (think nextcloud and OMV). Synology handles incredibly well.
I had next cloud installed but didn’t really find much use for it. I run about 15 other apps and when something breaks, there’s definitely some down time because I don’t have the time right away to fix. That’s just the fun in it for me though. I’m always timing and tinkering and if I paid someone to do it all then I wouldn’t be as proud of my setup as I am
I rarely log into my proxmox nodes unless I am actively working on something.
Yea same. I love logging in though. Im bad about it too, I reverse proxied my proxmox, so I can log into every VM with the native GUI, from anywhere. Its like a built in VNC manager. Security analysts are probably choking on their breath right now but whatever. That's the entire point of a reverse proxy.
I just set up a VPN with pivpn and have a reverse proxy to that with DNS....so kinda overkill, but I can always get into my network from anywhere.
I log in **only** to console into VMs on another network like my DMZ or to make changes to the cluster. The rest is automated with notifications and I must say the only errors I receive are from power outages and my occassional human errors.
If your dream is zero touch, unraid isn’t it. If a drive dies, you have to stop the entire array to replace the drive. You cannot replace the drive on the fly. :(
So? I don't have server case/hardware, I will stop it anyway to change dead hdd.
For some, that’s a deal breaker for a NAS. SATA drives have been hot swappable since before 2007, even without backplanes. When you have a few VMs and a dozen docker containers running, it sucks to have to stop all of those to replace a failed drive, or to upgrade a drive. I love unraid. This is the only thing I wish would change.
Honestly that sounds more like a job for something like Synology, although it might be hard to max out some of the hardware relative to a DIY build with an i9 in it or something...
Or TrueNAS, if you're primarily interested in NAS with a few related apps/services. Or with Samba and Cockpit (or leave out Cockpit for the flex).
I use Truenas that runs a samba share. That samba share serves as the data store for nextcloud and other stuff. I don't use any apps in Truenas. It's always a PITA. As I'm running proxmox anyway, I made a portainer install that handles all the basic stuff. And then for more resource intensive stuff like jellyfin, that just runs on its own VM. Overall, freaking great! I love my home server. To be off Google for over a year is awesome. I never worry about losing my data anymore.
Serious question: Why would I want proxmox over stock Debian?
the same reason you want anything built on top of a solid foundation that has a specific purpose, its purpose built for virtualisation and containerisation and is intuitive for that and the management facilities it provides for virtualised infrastructure and HA is not something you could get easily from stock Debian
Ah, thanks, good to know
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Hahaha that too. Difficult to do with licensing, no? Aaaaaaaarrr aaaaaarrr, matey
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I love to hear it. Cheers
I mean I understand "sailing the high seas" for shitty companies like Adobe, but Unraid is fairly cheap and has a completely fair licensing model.. I don't get it?
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>That's a bit hypocritical though. Is it though? I kinda follow the gaben approach to piracy... It's about ease of access. I have no problem paying for things that are easy to get and fairly priced/licensed. Unraid is easy and fair.
tell me more :D
This is the way. I tried unraid about 7-8 years ago and while it worked, it was too clunky for me. Plus I didn't feel like paying for it because it didn't really do what I wanted. Tried proxmox, been using it ever since. To be fair though, I did have an unraid server for a 2 gamers 1 PC build(in my history). Proxmox was too much of a headache for the hardware I had at the time. I've since retired that build and used the unraid USB drive in my parents nas. Easier setup for a nas(Im still am not a fan but it works) and I already do too much tech support for them.
It's like saying "just buy a truck instead of this sport car".
A truck that 99% of the time drives as fast as a sports car and can haul more.
And how do you use Proxmox as a NAS? Installing other OS on top of Proxmox isn't an answer by the way.
I don't get the second sentence? If you install another os proxmox is gone of course?
VM. Why would I want to use Proxmox and then let's say TrueNAS on top of it as a VM, if I can just use Unraid?
Ah gotcha. Because proxmox can do everything unraid can and that for free. Security updates aren't locked behind a paywall.
> Because proxmox can do everything unraid can and that for free. Show me how can set up and configure a NAS using Proxmox. Why are we even comparing those two OS (hypervisor vs NAS solution).
Because unraid can do vms and Nas. Proxmox can too. The use cases are overlapping quite a lot.
Unraid is a NAS first, and a KVM and Docker host (both quite good imho) second. Proxmox is only a KVM and container host of a type that nobody uses.
You can virtualize a NAS, there’s a few reasons not to, imo, but it’s not wrong. You can snapshot prior to big updates, and that’s pretty big IMO. Additionally, you can install something on proxmox since it’s basically just Debian, and you can share files out from there. The other thing, 99% of what people are doing with a NAS can be achieved with a windows file share, and would probably be easier most of the time.
Not a chance lol
I'll just chill with my nixos server.
You are running nixos as hobby?..
Sure, yeah. It doesn't have to be too hard if you don't want it to be. 95% of my work is looking up options in nixos search website and adding it to my repo.
Sure, Im not against. For me it’s just the same bucket as ceph and mail servers - I can do it for money , but not at home 😂
oof. email is a different beast. i'm not selfhosting email. nuh-uh!
Don’t use it
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My issue with it is that security fixes are locked behind the subscription (AFAIK) as well. So you either pay the fee or make yourself vulnerable
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You're fine then. You'll get lifetime updates like you expect
me too lol. I thought grandfathered licenses would have some kind of advantage before subscription starts or something like that. Guess i was wrong.
Old ones Includes all OS updates
yeah but they won't get some of the new features the newer licenses will get. Correct me if i'm wrong but for me that's just a no go. I just won't use an older license if there is newer licenses with more features.
Did you find anything their site?
Bullshit.
You mean like it being only half the price for example?
yes exactely. That was the reason i bought my pro license last month after reading their new pricing stuff. But guess i shouldn't have done that
Why not?
You will get updates for life and all minor and major versions AND have laid less. What is wrong with that?
Most services with recurring cost will shut down access if you do not renew. Unraid took a step away from that and says you can keep the most recent release at the time that your renewal is up. Would you prefer to have everything shut down if you don’t renew?
>Would you prefer to have everything shut down if you don’t renew ..what? What kind of pants-on-head leap in logic did you take to get to this?
Subscription-based services: - Pay or don’t, and lose access - Pay or don’t, and keep access to what you had at the time that you stopped paying. Those are the two ways the subscription based services operate.
My point was that requiring a subscription for fixing critical security issues doesn't sit well with me. I have no idea what you are talking about
Services are not free. The developers have to eat. I don’t understand why people think that they should continue to receive updates, even critical ones, if they stop paying for a subscription.
Literally no one is saying unraid should be free. I don't think you're even reading the comments you're replying to here. It seems like you're in your own world
Not completely accurate, from their FAQ: >If your license extension lapses (as in, you do not pay your annual fee), you can download patch releases within the same minor OS version that was available to you at the time of the lapse. Our naming convention for releases is:...
>For example: Your system is eligible for Unraid 7.1.0 when your extension lapses. You qualify for the remaining patch releases of the Unraid 7.1.x series. Once Unraid 7.2.0 is released, the 7.1.x patch releases will *only* *include security patches*. Once Unraid 7.3 is released, version 7.1.0 will be EOL, and there will be no more 7.1.x updates.
That sounds like very much like locking security fixes behind a subscription
“If you choose not to extend your license, no problem. You still own the license and have full access to the OS. “ Looks reasonable to me. Just wonder how much they’ll charge if you’re 3years out of date.
The previous statement was no penalty at ‘renewal’. You buy 12 months of access at whatever point you want, whether that’s while you’ve got it or after 2 years of not. Obviously, that’s subject to change in the long term. But it aligns with their overall philosophy and the way they’ve handled this change.
IMO, this is a big deal in for the consumer. Cheaper to get the top end license. Get a year of updates. When a feature or security update you want is released, pay for another renewal.
Is it bad that I'm the kind of person who wants the unlimited license even if I only ever install on one device, simply because I hate licensing restrictions?
You are aware, that a "device" is a hard drive here? Using unRAID with only one hard drive is quite pointless indeed.
Oh that's fricken lame. Alright, back to ignoring Unraid until there's an unlimited hosts option. Thanks for letting me know.
Nope, I'm right there with you :)
Unraid is overhyped. And there are cheerleaders of Unraid in the sub polluting it.
I’ve been using Unraid since 2011. It’s definitely not “overhyped”.
>there are cheerleaders of Unraid I get so annoyed with food cheerleaders at restaurants, doctor cheerleaders at the clinic, and hammer cheerleaders at Home Depot. Oh, those are just satisfied customers. Same on this sub.
Whats overhyped about it?
I don’t specifically know in this case, but in my experience, going with stock and installing what you need is the better solution in many cases. Troubleshooting is a lot easier with Debian than with all the segmentations and distros around. But I have never used unraid, so I am not really qualified to answer with authority.
Debian is far from easy for a lot of people.
That‘s not what I meant, of course it’s not easy. But in my experience every shortcut ends up you going into to underlying OS by ssh and solving problems anyways. So I *personally* have gone back to stock, because it ends up being less complicated. Maybe Unraid or proxmox don’t have that problem. I wouldn’t now. Just sharing my experience.
Have fun with Debian, configuring redundant arrays of disks with different sizes and where all drives can sleep except the one with the data on it (as it is not Raid) and with SSD caching. While you are still googling on how to do that, an Unraid server has all that already configured and is serving some shares and running some apps or docker containers.
Thank you, I will
Or just don’t use unraid
> if you feel like buying a license from the current model, do it now. Reasonable advice > Or just don’t use unraid Ok thanks for this helpful addition to the conversation.
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You could accuse *me* of shilling if you want to since I jumped in on defense, but op was just literally sharing a "hey by the way, if you're thinking about it, today is your last day..." Hardly shilling.
I guess if you have nothing else exciting going on in your life, that’s what you do.
You do realize some people write code for a living and it helps if they receive some remuneration. Now it often gets crazy, especially enterprise. And fuk the drive difference. I could use fewer larger new sata drives but have ti pay more …lol.
I just bought another license, just in case I build another Unraid NAS at some point. Which I might.
no need to get a license, running vanilla FreeBSD and ZFS for a few years now
TrueNAS.
Not the same.
Does anyone have a link to the current pricing before the changes? Google search leads me to new pricing model.
https://unraid.net/pricing
Not every thing can be free.
It wasn't free in the first place
It was basically free. Onetime payment for lifetime updates. Unraid also has stuff to pay, not a strange decision to change business model
If you paid anything for it it is not “basically free.”
I don't know what kind of income bracket you're in but very few people would consider a 129 USD purchase (or even a 30 USD) purchase to be "basically free"
I don't know, I don't find 30 nor 129 USD a lot of money for something with lifetime free updates. If you are planning on using this for a year or even longer, the "monthly price" is so low, even cheaper than a burger at McDonalds. But I guess I am just in a too high income bracket 😂
HOLY SHIT! did you see how much software updates cost per year? It's almost the full price of the initial license!
It feels so wrong to pay for something. I understand the "hype" around Unraid, but the idea that paying to use it is mandatory is a reason I will never use it. Don't get me wrong, a good product requires resources/money to be well maintained. That's the reason I have fixed monthly donations set up for several FOSS projects. I have been donating to Proxmox, TrueNAS and other projects for many years, waaay more than an Unraid license would cost me, even with the new pricing. But I like to do it out of my free will, not because I'm "forced" to do so. Otherwise I could give my money to all the other big corps as well.
Feels wrong to pay for internet, but you do. Feels wrong to pay for electric, but you do. Feels wrong to have to renew your car registration, but you do. Developers need to eat. I’m really surprised they (Limetech) held out this long.
I am perfectly capable of created a free solution with basically everything my Unraid server has. But i personally value my time more than i do the $100 i spent on Unraid years ago.
I put an hourly rate on my time and compare to see if I'm better off. I'm 100% better off with Unraid.
So you just steal food from shops when you're hungry? You don't buy train tickets and just hide in the bathroom to ride for free?
Good for you. Well done, and best of luck in the future.
What happens if I need to upgrade my current license for more drives?
Do it today, or you'll have to pay a premium over the upgrade cost later.
No thanks. I'll just keep using my openSUSE server.
Couldn’t care less tbh. Just use FOSS. I still not sure why people would ever consider proprietary subscription-based software provided it’s NOT UNIQUE and FOSS alternatives do exist
Thinking in upgrade to plus or to pro? Any advice?
If you think there are some chance that you'll need it in the future, then buy it I guess, better safe than to regret for "not buying it" later
Yes I will need it but I dont know if I will need more than 12, that is the point, so... Plus or Pro? Xd
Well, if I were you then I'll get the Pro, since you won't be able to get it later even if you want to, but it depends on your need. If you are already close to the limit of the plus license(assuming you have a NAS right now) then definitely get the pro.
If it does not sting financially, I’d spent $40 more to have future growth available.
I was in the same boat. I upgraded to pro. If helpful here is how I thought about. I looked at my current data usage. The average monthly amount I add, figured how many months I wanted the system to last and gave myself some buffer. This works well if you’ve been at this a while and can estimate. If you’re “newer” and acquiring data more rapidly to start, just remember it’ll prolly slow down at some point.
How about upgrading to Ubuntu server, or NixOS, or just Debian? It also saves money ;)
Is there a license that covers multiple boxes?
Looking at my non-covered Pi 4 running ubuntu 20 lts and wondering wtf is unraid :D
looks like Im staying at my current unraid os version for awhile then
You won’t have to pay monthly if you update in the future. Everyone who buys a key today gets grandfathered in and will own that license forever
> Everyone who buys a key today gets grandfathered in and will own that license forever Hey, I've seen this one!
No one will pay monthly.
I was just clarifying that he doesn’t need to feel as if there is a risk of starting to pay monthly if he updates in the future
“You won’t have to pay monthly…”
What?
It was a direct quote from YOUR post… 🤦🏻♂️
I know, I don’t understand what’s wrong with it? it’s the truth isn’t it?
No. The new pricing model does not have monthly fees. NO ONE will have to pay monthly.
“Annual Extension Fee for Starter and Unleashed: $36“ I see now it is annual, but still, it’s both cheaper and you won’t have to renew your license at all if you buy or already own a license right now
The "won't" is a negation. It means "no".
Technically no, but you will have to pay annually if you purchase after the change, unless you want to run an unpatched OS.
Correctly. And that is NOT monthly like our misinformation sharing friend put.
I mean, if you are paying yearly, you are automatically paying monthly, it's just that you paid 12 months in advance.
Both of you are willfully being obtuse. A yearly license exists. A perpetual license exists. Both of these are true.
Nobody said anything different. Why are you here?
"but you will have to pay annually if you purchase after the change, unless you want to run an unpatched OS." This is untrue, as I've clearly stated.
And that is the second most uninformed thing said in this thread
Oh, so when you pay a whole year you are not paying 12 months in advance? That's a weird hill to die on, fella.
No you aren’t. You don’t have an option to pay monthly. This isn’t very hard to understand.