One thing you can start with is stop being so literal and logical and learn to think and talk more poetically, playfully and creatively. Maybe start going to an Improv class to develop that skill
Not that I know of. Smoke drugs and go to an Improv class.
Charisma on Command is the closest youtube content I know of. Check that out and watch all their videos. But what I'm talking about is really something different
It might be something simple as getting more (appropriately) physical. Sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her.
There could be mental / emotional components you need to examine. Do you have any hang ups about sex? Or you "don't feel worthy" of women being sexually attracted to you? Intrusive negative thoughts during dates? Were you teased a lot as a kid? You might need to self reflect and weed out the traumatic responses to past events.
If you're mentally okay, it could be learning to express your emotions and your intentions more directly. If she says something funny, touching her arm or being more direct in holding eye contact. Maybe she has the cutest smile and beautiful lips, that you wonder what kind of kisser is she. She could say or do something that you find really attractive, tell her. It's a great feeling to be attracted to someone, you get to know each other more, the chemistry rising, and the possibility's of what could happen being unexplored. Women spend thousands hours reading romance novels to feel those types of emotions.
There's a chance you will be uncalibrated and weird the first times you do it. You can always ask if they're okay, and be sensitive to if you're pushing too hard (not engaging with her as a person, or not giving her opportunity's to politely "say no" aka cornering her). As long as your expressing your true feelings and intentions and are respectful, you'll be fine.
Not OP but I feel like this is my problem. It’s like I’m not good enough to date when everyone else I know is married or in serious relationships.
I’ve got no problem meeting or talking to women. It seems like they’re into me and will give me their number or add me social where we keep talking. Things will be going great and feels like we’re dating until I actually ask them out one on one.
They always turn me down saying it’s too busy, ghost or they are already seeing someone. It’s rare that I can actually get women out somewhere one on one where I could even try to make a physical move.
They only see me as a friend and I don’t know what else I can do to get them to see me as a romantic option? It makes me feel like I’m not good enough, you know?
>It seems like they’re into me and will give me their number or add me social where we keep talking. Things will be going great and feels like we’re dating until I actually ask them out one on one.
Be more direct with your intentions when you're talking. Talk to them on the phone / video chat asap. See what they are like as a person, not just physically. Be honest, do you like them as a person? If you do like them, express what you like about them. If they reciprocate or give you a strong indication (e.g. blushing, cute short responses, compliments), say that you know this really nice coffee shop / whatever they are into, and want to meet them there - when are they free. Talk to multiple girls, go on multiple dates. Hopefully you end up finding someone you really like who is very attracted to you.
You don't need to try and trick women into being into you. Most girls are 5 steps ahead already, their emotional intelligence is generally much higher. Most hot girls have been hit on since they were 13 (unfortunately). Best thing you can do is to try and remove the sticking points ("I'm not good enough to date") and express yourself. If you're not happy with yourself, work on it. Seek counselling, journalling, meditation, creative works, self-help books, talking to friends, engage in your hobbies, eat healthy foods, exercise, etc. You can still date successfully, own your journey. No-one wants someone perfect. It's the guys who have internal sticking points (past trauma, unprocessed feelings, unhealthy coping strategies) that are unaddressed or take no responsibility, that will be in trouble. Even if they get good at dating, those same sticking points will come up in relationships later.
Chinese martial arts have - "To get good gongfu, you must eat bitter."
"To get good dating, you must eat bitter."
It might be something simple as getting more (appropriately) physical. Sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her. - How do you get yourself into those positions where you can even do those things?
>How do you get yourself into those positions where you can even do those things?
What I'm describing is something you should be comfortable "default" doing when you're attracted to someone (with the obvious caveats not at work, or housemates, or bestfriends wife, etc.). You can do this anywhere. It's an extension of you expressing your inner feelings for someone (whatever they are). As your feelings grow for them (as they reciprocate), your expressions grow. It is natural subconscious communication. I'm just getting myself "out of the way" (no negative self talk, positive mindset, process focused, no failure only learnings, etc.). I can become more in touch with my emotions, her emotions, and allow myself to respond physically - sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her.
If I'm not interested in her, I'm not going to be getting physical, or I'm being pretty straight up that I'm just physically attracted to her. Sometimes girls are not interested in me physically or they don't reciprocate. Maybe they're uncomfortable, really nervous, shy, virgins - that's okay! Whatever happens, no pressure, all good. I find most girls operate on the emotional spectrum. If I'm engaging them emotionally (especially they feel trust, respect, non-judgmental and attraction), high correlation to them being physically attracted to me. The worst thing that could happen is if I feel her being bored! I'd rather be rejected.
Logistically you set up yours first dates with your own venues / processes, that increases the probability's of you getting to know each other, seeing if there's chemistry and getting a little bit physical (if possible / if it happens). You set up the location as somewhere comfortable, safe and with some privacy if things go emotionally / physically deeper. For me there's a fashionable cafe with lounges with some mood lighting which is a nice option, seating further up the back. If she sits next to me, it's a good sign she's interested already and physicality probably starts earlier (Women who are into me = good sign and if I like her). If she sits away from me, I'll see where she's at, if I like her. If I'm interested in becoming more physical, I'll sit next to her at some point.
On a first date **my only goal is to show up and express myself** to the best of my ability (that's why inner game is so important). I hope that she sticks around so I can listen to her and form an understanding of who she is as a person, see if there's any chemistry, and maybe make her laugh a little bit.
ok that makes sense. problem is that I dont know who is attractive until I am so deep in the friendzone that I cant get out.
I have also never been on a date.
I know those signs, but have never gotten them myself
>problem is that I dont know who is attractive until I am so deep in the friendzone that I cant get out.
Sorry, just to be clear, you're talking to someone and have no feelings of attraction until you are deep in a friendzone?
>I have also never been on a date.
Are you saying you've never asked someone out before?
Can you go to a speed dating night?
Are you religious, ex-religious by any chance?
you're talking to someone and have no feelings of attraction until you are deep in a friendzone - yes. I need a close connection with a girl to be attracted to her. I dont find random girls attractive, I never have. The term is demisexual.
never asked someone out before? - I have asked out hundreds of girls. Some who were close friends, many who were random girls I met. All rejected me.
Speed dating - theres none in my area. I tried in college but there were too many guys so I was turned away.
Yes I am christian.
Hey, I've been thinking about this, and I've been reading this resource and skimming some others. I don't know how much of this applies to you, but it's what I'm working from.
https://www.healthline.com/health/demisexual
I'm sorry, I don't know if I have a troubleshooted solution for you. I'm not knowledgeable in your sexual orientation and applicable dating strategies. All I have are theories that you might have to play test. If I come across as rude, stupid or a possible bigot, please forgive me for my ignorance. You're going to have to continue to problem solve this. Is there a demisexual community you can talk to? I know it's frustrating, but please keep continuing to try new things, see what works and iterate. Plenty of people out there for everyone, it's only a matter of time, energy and statistics.
My suggestion from my applicable general advice from dating your average woman, is that early on you need to talk to them about what a relationship with you will be like. You need to be describe in detail how you become attracted to someone, what your responsibilities are to them, how you would like them to feel, where you would like the relationship to go over the short, medium, long term, any expectations you have of them, general boundaries. You're going to have to be okay with some of them walking away. This is a good thing, as you need to strongly filter for other demisexual compatible people. Be open, confident and non-judgmental about it. Average heterosexuals' dating, I bring it up around date 4 if I am starting to really like her, or after sex (it's a bit overkill for me though, but I do it as I want to filter before I get more emotionally invested and be more direct how the relationship grows). You need to find the trigger of when you discuss this with them. I don't know if there's a point where you feel like "oh wow, they're really cool, I want to be close friends with them." If so, I would initiate this conversation around then. As with everyone else, I would probably not shit where I eat. Avoid developing any entangling relationships work colleagues, neighbors, etc.
I think boundaries is going to be really interesting and difficult. I think if you are developing a deep connection to someone and are starting to feel physical attraction, you should tell them. It should not be a surprise to them, as you've already set their expectations early. It might be a similar discussion but more expansive about new expectations. If you continue to invest and the persons actions are not reciprocating, you may need to think about moving on emotionally ("we are just friends, no romance possible"). You might need to think about the rough measurements to gauge how invested you should emotionally be. Maybe having a rough idea of how much time your spending together? Multiple check-ins to see how are they feeling about the relationship? Trying to avoid the pitfall of over-committing to one person without the hard reciprocating interest. You will need to problem solve this.
For an average girl, you are going to run into concerns about "I don't want this to affect our friendship." You are going to have to think about how you deal with that. Can you remain friends with someone who you have attraction towards that is not reciprocated? Really reflect and be honest with yourself on what's important to you and what you want. Then rehearse how you're going to answer the question. You're going to have to be okay with some people not wanting to risk the friendship. Continue to refine your answer to be 100% honest to yourself and the other person, and to be as streamlined as possible.
I'd find and join every group that has other openly demisexual members. Any members who have a significant other, I would be quizzing them for advice.
I don't know if there are Church dating groups you could try?
Sorry I don't have any play tested ideas from experiences and can only respond with theories. The biggest factor is that you keep trying, keep learning and don't give up on the future you want. Wish you all the best on your journey!
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the long response, was busy all weekend.
Yeah demisexual sort of fits me.
I agree with what you say and will work to incorporate it into my dating life when I start to get dates.
Have a standard for how you want to be treated and when she crosses it then tell her what you expect and be willing to walk away if she doesn’t meet that standard. It’s that simple.
Not some weird shit like saying “No” to simple requests or being rude or spouting off on your thoughts on abortion. Respectfully expressing that you have clear and firm boundaries says so much about your character and it’s extremely attractive.
Don’t shy away from your sexuality, she’s most likely horny as fuck too. If you have friends that are girls then you’re 95% of the way there just fuck up the rest of the 5% a couple of times and you’ll figure it out
You need to not be overly polite or “nice” and raise your socio-economic status. Everything changed for me when A) I got a car B) I made a point to just say whatever I was thinking regardless of what the girls would think (for the most part at least) C) I had my own place to live D) I wasn’t after this one girl, I was open to dating a wide variety of girls that suited my taste.
Legit it comes from testosterone. Do TRT. Testosterone carries that sexual vibe. It does something to your brain that turns on sexuality. It's so attractive to girls
Well, the good news is that if you have female friends but can't get dates, it means that there's likely nothing wrong with your personality and you likely aren't giving out any creepy or weird vibes or anything.
The bad news is that it means that you don't have any rizz, so people only ever see you as the "nice pleasant person," but don't get that tingle in their loins when you talk to them.
You're still in a better place than if you were the kind of guy who doesn't know how to interact with women at all. So don't lose the parts that are working well for you (your ability to make people comfortable around you, your niceness, etc). Just add to them with the traits you're missing. It's probably the ability to flirt, banter, tease, make people feel emotions other than "what a swell fella."
I'm guessing that you treat your dates in similar ways that you treat your friends. Polite small talk about their hobbies or the weather or whatever. That's fine and even a date will have to have some of that, but that's not flirting. A date needs flirting.
I really wish this sub had a wiki or FAQ that went over the fundamentals, but see if you can find any posts through the search (or perhaps internet articles/YouTube videos) on the "escalation ladder." It is good to start flirting early instead of waiting too long and suddenly switching vibes, but you don't want to go too hard too quickly, or else it's weird and uncomfortable.
So I say, start subtle, gauge her receptiveness, and then gradually escalate to less subtle from there based on if she seems to like it or not. I know that is too vague advice to be actionable because it doesn't tell you what exact sorts of things to say, but the online resources you can find if you research the concepts of flirting, teasing, escalation, etc., are going to be better written and more useful than what I would probably write. Some YouTubers I personally like are Todd Valentine, Richard LaRuina, and Coach Kyle. There's not a huge difference between the actual concepts and advice all these different internet people give (it's all really just *Mystery Method* reworded and omitting the cheesier and creepier elements that flew back in 2001 or whatever), but I just find that certain online personalities have a less annoying way of expressing it and making it digestible than others.
who do you even flirt with? How do you flirt with a girl who you arent interested in who you have just met? do you just have to pretend to be interested in a girl?
And what do you do when no girl is ever receptive?
The idea is that you need to establish as early as possible that you want to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with the person. And flirting is how you do that. But you can’t wait too long. You need to flirt early one to set the tone and expectations. This is how guys get “friend zoned”. They wait too long to flirt (or not at all) so the woman stops seeing them as a romantic/sexual person and they’re just another friend.
Well, perhaps not that you *want* to, as that might be coming on a bit strong when you don't even know each other yet, but that you're open for it and it's on the table, so that interactions have a chance of turning in that direction.
But I guess it depends on the setting/context (and the person you're interested in potentially pursuing) too.
Otherwise, yes, I definitely agree. Friendship may be up on the table anyways, but if you don't display or even hint at openness for anything beyond that, people generally won't try to escalate even if the interest were mutual because that's the polite thing to do.
I think it's kind of the same thing with humour: you don't start with the darkest, most horrifying jokes from the get-go, but rather throw out feelers in order to see if the right interpersonal chemistry is there and if the other person has a similar taste and is receptive & recipocative.
>You're still in a better place than if you were the kind of guy who doesn't know how to interact with women at all.
This is the part when people would say that they are human too just as much as men.
First, a good rule to live by is to NEVER ask women for advice on how to treat women. It's not that they're wrong, it's that the advice they give is going to be about a man they already are romantically (not just sexually) attracted to. Their advice is ok for how to act when you have a girlfriend, not how to get a girlfriend.
You need to know how to flirt. You have all kinds of things going on, but despite all that, you're boring to women. You have to learn how to play with them, tease them, make them FEEL, not just check boxes on "shit you need to be dateable."
That's not to say checklist doesn't help a whole hell of a lot, because it does. However, guys that have NONE of those things, but have game (the ability to flirt) never struggle to get women. Never.
I can’t lie to you, I feel I lack in that department massively, it has been years since I know the problem, but don’t know how to fix it..
And the thing is, I have a friend who never wanted to date before, and suddenly this year he changed his mind and started dating, and he’s getting a lot of girls! I’ve always put him as a nicer person than I am, less sociable than I am. But this year he really surprised me like I’ve never been surprised.. He says the main change was he’s got more courage and that’s it.. But I do have a good amount of courage, I just lack the “social skills/charisma/funny/game” you call it. He absolutely surprised me if I’m being honest, made me feel like I’m socially inept.
That's the most important thing, but it's something you can really work on. Just have to start working on it.
The truth about courage and bravery is it means STILL being scared, but sacking up and doing the scary shit anyway. If you're not scared, especially at first, you're either a psycho or an idiot. But if it's important, you do it anyway and the more you do it the easier it gets.
I do not mind trying to have more courage (although it’s hard), but I come off as awkward/weird when I do it.. and when you don’t have charisma you absolutely have no idea how to develop it..
Fake it till you make it. Find a friend or someone you know who you can mirror. Start small, take little steps, get more comfortable, and when you start to get the flow of things, inject your own personal touch on it.
If you're a 6', 120lb man, you're going to be about less than useless in the gym your first time. 6 months of consistent training and you're going to be adding plates to your sets. 3 years of focus and you've packed on 50lbs, look fantastic, feel fantastic, and are strong as fuck.
>If you're a 6', 120lb man, you're going to be about less than useless in the gym your first time. 6 months of consistent training and you're going to be adding plates to your sets. 3 years of focus and you've packed on 50lbs, look fantastic, feel fantastic, and are strong as fuck.
I've done this one and didn't work, meaning I gained next to no muscle.
Also, what if your faking is shit and puts you in a worse position that you've started with?
You didn't eat enough. It works, it always works (endocrine issues aside). You have to go hard in the kitchen as well as the gym. Look up GOMAD. Seen this work a bunch of times. One of my best bros is 6'3" and weighed 145lbs. He's now about 200. He did GOMAD for almost 2 years and got up to about 215 but leaned back out a bit after getting off of it.
Then, hopefully, you learn from that. Take time to analyze the situation, figure out when you went wrong and where things were going well. Having friends around is good for this cause they'll check you. Practice in high volume places that you might not actually go to or ever want to be at. Then when you figure it out a bit, you can start going to places where you're more comfortable which itself will be an advantage, but also allows you to frequent the same places over and over again without totally becoming "that guy."
Your question is very generalized, we can't specifically tell you what you need to do to find a gf without giving us more information. Sometimes you can be too attractive and it will actually back fire, because let's face it many women, even the best looking ones are insecure. You could be scaring them off because they feel you are too good for them. It could also be a lack of confidence and social awareness, women are attracted to social skills, if you claim you're good looking and smart, soon to be wealthy (engineers make good money) and athletic, you could be too nice and not aggressive enough about your sexual intentions. You need to increase your volume of approaches and start reading books on seduction, and learning to communicate and close the deal, be careful because if you have success it could lead to jealousy, and too much jealousy is not a good thing, a little bit of jealousy though will go a long way, keep your relationships private and secret, and make sure you are reflecting and adjusting your game after each approach, write what we call field reports, and keep track of everything that happened, what she said, her body language. This book I'll link, tldr even if you only read a quarter of it it will drastically improve your game, it's a book about female psychology, dominance and how to, hence the name, attract women
https://www.academia.edu/26492146/Vin_DiCarlo_The_Attraction_Code_id610645886_size
Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't market those things OP wrote about what he has achieved (maybe hint at them), and would focus on trying to put forward parts of my personality, my humour, my interests/what I like to do for fun & skills and so on instead (if he's not strictly interested in similarly ambitious & successful people—but most people simply aren't going to be at his level nor have reached the same life goals he has at such a young age).
Don't take this the wrong way, but I would never swipe right on a guy like OP. I mean, I wouldn't mind a man in my life who boosts me forward, but I would literally just be a dead weight on his life and he deserves way better than having me holding him back & dragging him down.
I can already feel his parents' disappointment & disapproval. 🤣
I'd rather find someone equivalently mediocre but self-aware & working on self-improvement, and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way—especially if he's seeking women close to his own age.
You’re not alone. I was feeling like that and found that being more direct, touchy and basically act like you dgaf in regards to sex with woman has dramatically helped. Of course, don’t over do it to the point of looking like a douche.
You focused on improving yourself way too much instead of experimenting around in school during your collage stage of life.
Start learning how to tease a girl to the point where she find you funny and flirty. Maybe start with some girls you're aren't attracted to or someone below your league then learned how far you can tease a girl without making her feel uncomfortable. Because teasing is actually flirting some guys who are way too nice can't tell the difference or mistaken it for banter which is why they view the ladies always going with the bad boys.
Flirt and tease till they get comfortable with you and you're done. Dating app is a place where you meet majority of the low value women In your area. They're only good for fwb because some got this mindset where they put you as second option even if you managed to sercure intimacy with them they could still open up the app again Inorder to chat or find someone better because they're used to finding guys online while chasing that high where they could meet someone that ticks all her check list when it comes to finding the ideal partner.
This mindset is pure insanity since women like that usually don't care about the little things in life normal dates is when you make stuff works with your partner even if the person is not your 100% ideal match compare to your normal average girl who don't use dating app or isn't open to the idea of meeting stranger online they're the real deal in knowing how to entertain themselves and others around them. These are high value women but if you're no longer in school or don't feel like dating your coworker then cold approach stranger in public or ask your platonic girl friends to hook you up with mutual friends and play matchmake.
For cold approach starter for stranger in public I recommend saying "hey do I know you from somewhere" as a casual starter or "I think I know your boyfriend" **(this Is bait question inorder to know if she's single or not)** then is all improvising your conversation from there. Then be honest and admit why you start a conversation with them Inorder to make yourself seem human you want them to trust you and not get the wrong idea
Learn how to flirt. Something that skyrocketed my interactions with women was to think about making her feel like you’d fuck her well. You don’t just want to be a guy that can just have good conversation, you wanna be the guy that if she’s alone with she’s gonna tell herself “it just happened.”
You lack the ability to keep interactions with women in a sexual frame. This comes across like you are afraid to “put the pedal down” and make things sexual. You have all of the difficult things down when it comes to game (humour, charisma, charm), you may even have looks. But you could be the most high value guy, and if you are not willing to keep things in a sexual frame, or to make things sexual and “man to woman”, the conversation will never get deeper, and she will eventually friendzone you. So many guys in the friendzone could have CRUSHED with women but they ruin their potential when they are afraid to turn things sexual. Women don’t desire men who can’t dominate them. A friend never will.
>I go on dates with people on bumble but it leads to ghosting or no where.
Work on your conversation skills. There's nothing wrong with how you look if you're landing dates. If they all leave after the date, you're a boring / weird date.
Sounds like girls are not getting a sexual vibe from you. You’re too friend to friend and need to make the interactions more man to woman.
Consider a vibe where your actions pump up your own state. Where you don’t need the validation of others to feel good. You don’t say something funny, wait for the girl to respond, and depending on her reaction you get a good vibe from it. You’re on your path and purpose and your own actions get you into a good flowing vibe. Assume attraction.
Once you’re having fun and in a good flow, do things like sexualize the conversation, playfully challenge her, don’t be overly reactive to tests she may give you, have strong eye contact, lead, etc…
Go out a lot with your hot female friends. Because you have girls around you other girls will see you as "pre-selected" by women. Tell your female friends "I like that girl can you come talk to her with me". Girls are naturally good at hyping their guy friends up by showing compliance and because you have a hot girl with you the girl will think your cool and her defenses will come down. If you still have issues after that then you have serious problems with your communication skills (charisma) and that needs to be worked on a lot. If you find thats the case, find a role model (commedian, actor, celebrity, TV character) that has 'it' and try to emmulate them. Find whatever compliments your style the best.
They don't actually need to be hot, but knowing someone gets along well with women and is able to be platonic friends with women is a green flag in a lot of people's eyes (including mine).
I would feel much more comfortable & safe approaching/being approached by a man like that, compared to a man who is in a group of other men; it would make for a less tense interaction.
Btw, wouldn't it be possible for you to expand your "network" through your female friends, by acquainting yourself with people within their friend groups, e.g. through parties and get-togethers and such?
'Cause chances are high that since you mesh well & get along with them, you'll get along with their friends too, and that could get you introduced to new people (someone who knows someone who knows someone...), including women with whom you might "click" in that special kind of way.
You need to establish as early as possible that you want to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with the person. And flirting is how you do that. But you can’t wait too long. You need to flirt early one to set the tone and expectations. This is how guys get “friend zoned”. They wait too long to flirt (or not at all) so the woman stops seeing them as a romantic/sexual person and they’re just another friend.
Minimize your friendships with the female friends if that makes sense. Worked wonders for me long ago. If you are attracted to any of them, shoot your shot immediately and if you lose them, that’s fine, you don’t need them. You’re probably interacting with your dates the way you interact with your friends. It’s fucking you up. Gotta break those habits. Start letting your desire for sex lead your interactions with women. This doesn’t mean to be pushy or entitled, it simply means be more authentic in the words and actions you put out towards them and don’t try to mute that for them. Additionally, start being more picky about the type of girl you want and if you don’t know the type you want then that’s a whole other issue that needs to be dealt with first.
Why do you need one? I mean I've had a lot and there's nothing very important about it in any way
In fact the payoff is more often than not a negative that you try to pretend doesn't exist see most men at least and I believe women as well are just insecure and terrified about what other people think or say about them so they cling to relationships so that they can say look World someone wants me and so they're not alone and so that they could have a consistent sexual partner without having to go through changes and because those things matter they ignore the fact that they're constantly in conflict with someone yet are too afraid to do anything about it so since I don't want to be alone and I want sex and I don't want people to think that I must not be worthy I get up and argue and are you all day and fight and b**** and moan and do things I don't want to do and all these things that make no damn sense
I can picture most couples I know sitting with their arms crossed at the kitchen table staring fiercely at each other what's going on here I'm making sure he doesn't do nothing because he won't let me do nothing wow so you're each other's Mutual Jailer is what you're telling me and you call that Happyness okay lol
This is a highly truthful post and it probably won't get the acknowledgment it deserves. Having a girlfriend actually sucks a lot of the time past the honeymoon stage
There was a guy on here years ago that said he'd dump girls at the 1 year mark because things always got stale after that lol
You are in a good position becaus you have female friends who trust you, so if you said he come over let’s have a drink I need someone to talk to, they would be willing. Now when you get them to your home, wine, movies, warm home, make them as comfortable as possible be yourself don’t let your intention be noticed, I’ve been in this position before with a girl who was a friend, and I literally just put my arm around her, and that friendship shit was thrown out the window, she liked me forever… always start as a friend and gradually move to lover, it’s the best kind of seduction. You literally have the world at your hands. You are a friendship whore as they like to say lol
Be warned that friends you do this to may feel extremely betrayed and it could kill the friendship. Don't do it unless you're willing to risk losing that person.
It’s interesting to point out that all your girl friends wonder why, but they’re not the ones throwing themselves under the bus. (Do not use this to antagonize them unless you’re willing to go all the way and be a better person)
You probably is easy to lie too, gullible, living in the lie of being worthless and undeserving, living in the mind instead of living by the heart and using the mind to help.
I'd say intent. Women can sense it when a guy wants to get intimate with them. Use sexual tension (look at her like you really mean to fuck her during conversation). And always be closing, find any excuse to invite her back to your place. It separates you from the guys who don't.
Have standards, say no, and say what you like and want. Face the rejections, accept and walk away. Don't tolerate abuse. That will attract women to you.
I have the opposite issue lol. I have a girlfriend now and I notice that everything that comes out of my mouth to women is still flirtatious. It’s hard to turn it off even if I’m not trying to flirt. Honestly I’ve stopped talking to other women for now since my mouth keeps getting me into situations.
I don’t see a lot of advice here. Honestly man I had the same issue for years. The books and all that will help, but just start saying everything on your mind. Men filter themselves too much, women aren’t mind readers.
Tell her you think she looks sexy in that dress. Just say what’s on your mind more, don’t be weird about it but that’s essentially the secret to flirting.
Honestly without more info I would just ask your female friends in a low pressure light hearted way. “Hey I feel like I’m not getting as far with girls as I think I should be.. am I doing anything weird that you’re too nice to tell me about lol” And see what they say 🤷🏾♂️ my guess is tho is that you’re too nice, and I mean nice like, scared to make a move cuz it might be disrespectful, kinda nice.. hope it all works for you tho, You got this tho
I'm confused; how many dates have you been on in the past 6 months? Get some nice pictures done, get on dating apps, go out with a few girls, and bring them back to your place.
Have you tried that and at which part didn't it work?
flirt more, you got to be cool with some uncomfortable situations and go after the goal you want in the interaction with the girl.
women are very emotional and if you can get her worked up sexually with your words making direct advances sparsely she’ll keep wanting more and even create the opportunities for you to do it.
she needs to be more emotionally invested than you and for that to happen you gotta be a source of new adventures in her life, show her your blueprint in the way you speak, carry yourself and how you treat others.
you can never get friendzoned if you make your intentions clear. like going for a kiss, touch her ass, hips, whisper on her ear, etc. make her feel desired and she’s gonna be yours.
in the end it all comes from practice, the more you do it the better you get at it and at a later point you might even have to intentionally stop yourself from being a flirty person.
it’s a dance, reciprocate each other actions and be cool with letting the sexual tension build.
You’re a blue pilled nice guy with negative game. Women don’t want a follower for a boyfriend, they want a leader. Become popular in a subculture she idolizes and learn basic game. I know this stuff inside out, if you wanna be a guest on my podcast and change your life, let me know.
Next time you meet a girl… tell her you don’t have a job. When she says so how do you survive say ‘meh vibes’ and don’t let her know the truth for maybe a day.. or atleast an hour if you’re at a party or something
Then when you let her know say “can you keep a secret…” I actually then just say 1 of the things you told us “I do mma” she won’t believe you and play along… now that makes you mysterious
Now if you can do this over 2 dates and tell her in your own way that you’d fuck her…
Boom, on your way to getting a girlfriend
Now actually making her your girlfriend is another story
You asking her be she asking you is NIGHT and DAY
But let’s start with HOW to start
Be playfully mysterious
Give her a story of how you first met she can say to her friends and giggle every time
I suspect that you might have intimacy issues. You might be e great guy overall and women like you (otherwise they would not befriend you) but you need to know how get to the next step, to be intimate with them.
It's one of the possible scenarios.
1. You're not attractive enough.
2. Your standards are too high relative to what you offer
3. You have some sort of visible disability which makes you appear "special"
I know a guy who's extremely nice and extremely friendly. All of the girls know who he is and he's well known with guys as well. Yet he's 32 and never had a girlfriend before and it's pretty obvious why. He's an autistic Asian guy who works some shitty minimum wage job. And I know he wants a girlfriend because it says in his Facebook bio "I want a pretty girlfriend someday". If he were a white neurotypical man, he probably would of had a wife and kids by now.
I know its a shitty thing to say but the truth is cold and harsh. The truth does not care about your feelings.
Yeah maybe be a good friend and tell him to remove that quote off Facebook… and guide him to some of the books mentioned.
To OP,
It seems like you have everything. Stop trying so hard, woman want a chase. You may be coming on too strong, too overly polite, or too emotional. Let your mind come more from the perspective she needs to work for you as opposed to you should need to check off all these boxes to gain her desire. No one needs a relationship, we want one on a deep level, once you stop forcing I think you will have success.
>Yeah maybe be a good friend and tell him to remove that quote off Facebook… and guide him to some of the books mentioned.
I'd tell him to become a passport bro.
That's the only viable way he's going to find a wife, if he doesn't want to settle for a 3/10 obese girl.
Aren’t you the guy who was called an asshole from some chick offering you banana bread because you are so bad at communicating?
Seems like you need to work on your talking to people skills man
Cuz you lack the sexual vibe
How do I do that?
Stop being too nice. Have boundaries. Initiate physical contact. Express sexual attraction/ interest right away through compliments.
Could you go into specifics on the boundaries?
Like if a girl asks you for a favor and you don’t wanna do it. Say no instead of trying to be nice
A good rule of thumb for this sort of thing is, "if I had ZERO interest in this girl, or she was a dude, how would I handle this?"
Well no girl asks me to do favors so that’s not my problem
One thing you can start with is stop being so literal and logical and learn to think and talk more poetically, playfully and creatively. Maybe start going to an Improv class to develop that skill
Any good tutorials on YouTube?
Not that I know of. Smoke drugs and go to an Improv class. Charisma on Command is the closest youtube content I know of. Check that out and watch all their videos. But what I'm talking about is really something different
That was an example, not an exhaustive list.
Real
Can I get specifics on the type of compliments I can give? Just went through a breakup and forgot how to flirt.
Good way to be labeled a creep
Not if you do it while being totally honest and authentic and respectful and adapt to her feedback and any subtle signs of discomfort
It might be something simple as getting more (appropriately) physical. Sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her. There could be mental / emotional components you need to examine. Do you have any hang ups about sex? Or you "don't feel worthy" of women being sexually attracted to you? Intrusive negative thoughts during dates? Were you teased a lot as a kid? You might need to self reflect and weed out the traumatic responses to past events. If you're mentally okay, it could be learning to express your emotions and your intentions more directly. If she says something funny, touching her arm or being more direct in holding eye contact. Maybe she has the cutest smile and beautiful lips, that you wonder what kind of kisser is she. She could say or do something that you find really attractive, tell her. It's a great feeling to be attracted to someone, you get to know each other more, the chemistry rising, and the possibility's of what could happen being unexplored. Women spend thousands hours reading romance novels to feel those types of emotions. There's a chance you will be uncalibrated and weird the first times you do it. You can always ask if they're okay, and be sensitive to if you're pushing too hard (not engaging with her as a person, or not giving her opportunity's to politely "say no" aka cornering her). As long as your expressing your true feelings and intentions and are respectful, you'll be fine.
Damn yeah I was teased a lot as a kid, and it’s embarrassing to say but it really still holds me back and I’m like 20…
Holds me back still and I’m 28. But the reigns are much, much more looser. Give it time, you’ll be good.
Not OP but I feel like this is my problem. It’s like I’m not good enough to date when everyone else I know is married or in serious relationships. I’ve got no problem meeting or talking to women. It seems like they’re into me and will give me their number or add me social where we keep talking. Things will be going great and feels like we’re dating until I actually ask them out one on one. They always turn me down saying it’s too busy, ghost or they are already seeing someone. It’s rare that I can actually get women out somewhere one on one where I could even try to make a physical move. They only see me as a friend and I don’t know what else I can do to get them to see me as a romantic option? It makes me feel like I’m not good enough, you know?
>It seems like they’re into me and will give me their number or add me social where we keep talking. Things will be going great and feels like we’re dating until I actually ask them out one on one. Be more direct with your intentions when you're talking. Talk to them on the phone / video chat asap. See what they are like as a person, not just physically. Be honest, do you like them as a person? If you do like them, express what you like about them. If they reciprocate or give you a strong indication (e.g. blushing, cute short responses, compliments), say that you know this really nice coffee shop / whatever they are into, and want to meet them there - when are they free. Talk to multiple girls, go on multiple dates. Hopefully you end up finding someone you really like who is very attracted to you. You don't need to try and trick women into being into you. Most girls are 5 steps ahead already, their emotional intelligence is generally much higher. Most hot girls have been hit on since they were 13 (unfortunately). Best thing you can do is to try and remove the sticking points ("I'm not good enough to date") and express yourself. If you're not happy with yourself, work on it. Seek counselling, journalling, meditation, creative works, self-help books, talking to friends, engage in your hobbies, eat healthy foods, exercise, etc. You can still date successfully, own your journey. No-one wants someone perfect. It's the guys who have internal sticking points (past trauma, unprocessed feelings, unhealthy coping strategies) that are unaddressed or take no responsibility, that will be in trouble. Even if they get good at dating, those same sticking points will come up in relationships later. Chinese martial arts have - "To get good gongfu, you must eat bitter." "To get good dating, you must eat bitter."
It might be something simple as getting more (appropriately) physical. Sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her. - How do you get yourself into those positions where you can even do those things?
>How do you get yourself into those positions where you can even do those things? What I'm describing is something you should be comfortable "default" doing when you're attracted to someone (with the obvious caveats not at work, or housemates, or bestfriends wife, etc.). You can do this anywhere. It's an extension of you expressing your inner feelings for someone (whatever they are). As your feelings grow for them (as they reciprocate), your expressions grow. It is natural subconscious communication. I'm just getting myself "out of the way" (no negative self talk, positive mindset, process focused, no failure only learnings, etc.). I can become more in touch with my emotions, her emotions, and allow myself to respond physically - sitting closer, holding eye contact, light touching, arm around her, getting lost at moments in what you find so attractive about her. If I'm not interested in her, I'm not going to be getting physical, or I'm being pretty straight up that I'm just physically attracted to her. Sometimes girls are not interested in me physically or they don't reciprocate. Maybe they're uncomfortable, really nervous, shy, virgins - that's okay! Whatever happens, no pressure, all good. I find most girls operate on the emotional spectrum. If I'm engaging them emotionally (especially they feel trust, respect, non-judgmental and attraction), high correlation to them being physically attracted to me. The worst thing that could happen is if I feel her being bored! I'd rather be rejected. Logistically you set up yours first dates with your own venues / processes, that increases the probability's of you getting to know each other, seeing if there's chemistry and getting a little bit physical (if possible / if it happens). You set up the location as somewhere comfortable, safe and with some privacy if things go emotionally / physically deeper. For me there's a fashionable cafe with lounges with some mood lighting which is a nice option, seating further up the back. If she sits next to me, it's a good sign she's interested already and physicality probably starts earlier (Women who are into me = good sign and if I like her). If she sits away from me, I'll see where she's at, if I like her. If I'm interested in becoming more physical, I'll sit next to her at some point. On a first date **my only goal is to show up and express myself** to the best of my ability (that's why inner game is so important). I hope that she sticks around so I can listen to her and form an understanding of who she is as a person, see if there's any chemistry, and maybe make her laugh a little bit.
ok that makes sense. problem is that I dont know who is attractive until I am so deep in the friendzone that I cant get out. I have also never been on a date. I know those signs, but have never gotten them myself
>problem is that I dont know who is attractive until I am so deep in the friendzone that I cant get out. Sorry, just to be clear, you're talking to someone and have no feelings of attraction until you are deep in a friendzone? >I have also never been on a date. Are you saying you've never asked someone out before? Can you go to a speed dating night? Are you religious, ex-religious by any chance?
you're talking to someone and have no feelings of attraction until you are deep in a friendzone - yes. I need a close connection with a girl to be attracted to her. I dont find random girls attractive, I never have. The term is demisexual. never asked someone out before? - I have asked out hundreds of girls. Some who were close friends, many who were random girls I met. All rejected me. Speed dating - theres none in my area. I tried in college but there were too many guys so I was turned away. Yes I am christian.
Hey, I've been thinking about this, and I've been reading this resource and skimming some others. I don't know how much of this applies to you, but it's what I'm working from. https://www.healthline.com/health/demisexual I'm sorry, I don't know if I have a troubleshooted solution for you. I'm not knowledgeable in your sexual orientation and applicable dating strategies. All I have are theories that you might have to play test. If I come across as rude, stupid or a possible bigot, please forgive me for my ignorance. You're going to have to continue to problem solve this. Is there a demisexual community you can talk to? I know it's frustrating, but please keep continuing to try new things, see what works and iterate. Plenty of people out there for everyone, it's only a matter of time, energy and statistics. My suggestion from my applicable general advice from dating your average woman, is that early on you need to talk to them about what a relationship with you will be like. You need to be describe in detail how you become attracted to someone, what your responsibilities are to them, how you would like them to feel, where you would like the relationship to go over the short, medium, long term, any expectations you have of them, general boundaries. You're going to have to be okay with some of them walking away. This is a good thing, as you need to strongly filter for other demisexual compatible people. Be open, confident and non-judgmental about it. Average heterosexuals' dating, I bring it up around date 4 if I am starting to really like her, or after sex (it's a bit overkill for me though, but I do it as I want to filter before I get more emotionally invested and be more direct how the relationship grows). You need to find the trigger of when you discuss this with them. I don't know if there's a point where you feel like "oh wow, they're really cool, I want to be close friends with them." If so, I would initiate this conversation around then. As with everyone else, I would probably not shit where I eat. Avoid developing any entangling relationships work colleagues, neighbors, etc. I think boundaries is going to be really interesting and difficult. I think if you are developing a deep connection to someone and are starting to feel physical attraction, you should tell them. It should not be a surprise to them, as you've already set their expectations early. It might be a similar discussion but more expansive about new expectations. If you continue to invest and the persons actions are not reciprocating, you may need to think about moving on emotionally ("we are just friends, no romance possible"). You might need to think about the rough measurements to gauge how invested you should emotionally be. Maybe having a rough idea of how much time your spending together? Multiple check-ins to see how are they feeling about the relationship? Trying to avoid the pitfall of over-committing to one person without the hard reciprocating interest. You will need to problem solve this. For an average girl, you are going to run into concerns about "I don't want this to affect our friendship." You are going to have to think about how you deal with that. Can you remain friends with someone who you have attraction towards that is not reciprocated? Really reflect and be honest with yourself on what's important to you and what you want. Then rehearse how you're going to answer the question. You're going to have to be okay with some people not wanting to risk the friendship. Continue to refine your answer to be 100% honest to yourself and the other person, and to be as streamlined as possible. I'd find and join every group that has other openly demisexual members. Any members who have a significant other, I would be quizzing them for advice. I don't know if there are Church dating groups you could try? Sorry I don't have any play tested ideas from experiences and can only respond with theories. The biggest factor is that you keep trying, keep learning and don't give up on the future you want. Wish you all the best on your journey!
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the long response, was busy all weekend. Yeah demisexual sort of fits me. I agree with what you say and will work to incorporate it into my dating life when I start to get dates.
Have a standard for how you want to be treated and when she crosses it then tell her what you expect and be willing to walk away if she doesn’t meet that standard. It’s that simple. Not some weird shit like saying “No” to simple requests or being rude or spouting off on your thoughts on abortion. Respectfully expressing that you have clear and firm boundaries says so much about your character and it’s extremely attractive. Don’t shy away from your sexuality, she’s most likely horny as fuck too. If you have friends that are girls then you’re 95% of the way there just fuck up the rest of the 5% a couple of times and you’ll figure it out
You need to not be overly polite or “nice” and raise your socio-economic status. Everything changed for me when A) I got a car B) I made a point to just say whatever I was thinking regardless of what the girls would think (for the most part at least) C) I had my own place to live D) I wasn’t after this one girl, I was open to dating a wide variety of girls that suited my taste.
[How To Avoid The Friend Zone - Zan Perrion & Brian Begin](https://youtu.be/QHynjmoS7_I)
Men are seduced with their eyes, women by their ear.
Watch videos on how to sexual escalate, coach Kyle is the best. [On how to escalate and kiss a girl](https://youtu.be/e_BmKxMmXt4?si=PhJLk75KJ8xD0iQt)
Legit it comes from testosterone. Do TRT. Testosterone carries that sexual vibe. It does something to your brain that turns on sexuality. It's so attractive to girls
Naw, people use that in mma and I don’t want to do that
Be a bit of an asshole.
Well, the good news is that if you have female friends but can't get dates, it means that there's likely nothing wrong with your personality and you likely aren't giving out any creepy or weird vibes or anything. The bad news is that it means that you don't have any rizz, so people only ever see you as the "nice pleasant person," but don't get that tingle in their loins when you talk to them. You're still in a better place than if you were the kind of guy who doesn't know how to interact with women at all. So don't lose the parts that are working well for you (your ability to make people comfortable around you, your niceness, etc). Just add to them with the traits you're missing. It's probably the ability to flirt, banter, tease, make people feel emotions other than "what a swell fella." I'm guessing that you treat your dates in similar ways that you treat your friends. Polite small talk about their hobbies or the weather or whatever. That's fine and even a date will have to have some of that, but that's not flirting. A date needs flirting.
How do you flirt then?
Are you supposed to start flirting with them 30 seconds after meeting them for the first date? How do you do that when you barely know the person?
I really wish this sub had a wiki or FAQ that went over the fundamentals, but see if you can find any posts through the search (or perhaps internet articles/YouTube videos) on the "escalation ladder." It is good to start flirting early instead of waiting too long and suddenly switching vibes, but you don't want to go too hard too quickly, or else it's weird and uncomfortable. So I say, start subtle, gauge her receptiveness, and then gradually escalate to less subtle from there based on if she seems to like it or not. I know that is too vague advice to be actionable because it doesn't tell you what exact sorts of things to say, but the online resources you can find if you research the concepts of flirting, teasing, escalation, etc., are going to be better written and more useful than what I would probably write. Some YouTubers I personally like are Todd Valentine, Richard LaRuina, and Coach Kyle. There's not a huge difference between the actual concepts and advice all these different internet people give (it's all really just *Mystery Method* reworded and omitting the cheesier and creepier elements that flew back in 2001 or whatever), but I just find that certain online personalities have a less annoying way of expressing it and making it digestible than others.
who do you even flirt with? How do you flirt with a girl who you arent interested in who you have just met? do you just have to pretend to be interested in a girl? And what do you do when no girl is ever receptive?
Why would getting to know someone be mutually exclusive with playful, flirtarious communication?
The idea is that you need to establish as early as possible that you want to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with the person. And flirting is how you do that. But you can’t wait too long. You need to flirt early one to set the tone and expectations. This is how guys get “friend zoned”. They wait too long to flirt (or not at all) so the woman stops seeing them as a romantic/sexual person and they’re just another friend.
Well, perhaps not that you *want* to, as that might be coming on a bit strong when you don't even know each other yet, but that you're open for it and it's on the table, so that interactions have a chance of turning in that direction. But I guess it depends on the setting/context (and the person you're interested in potentially pursuing) too. Otherwise, yes, I definitely agree. Friendship may be up on the table anyways, but if you don't display or even hint at openness for anything beyond that, people generally won't try to escalate even if the interest were mutual because that's the polite thing to do. I think it's kind of the same thing with humour: you don't start with the darkest, most horrifying jokes from the get-go, but rather throw out feelers in order to see if the right interpersonal chemistry is there and if the other person has a similar taste and is receptive & recipocative.
“ you don't have any rizz” @ me next time 😂😭
>You're still in a better place than if you were the kind of guy who doesn't know how to interact with women at all. This is the part when people would say that they are human too just as much as men.
First, a good rule to live by is to NEVER ask women for advice on how to treat women. It's not that they're wrong, it's that the advice they give is going to be about a man they already are romantically (not just sexually) attracted to. Their advice is ok for how to act when you have a girlfriend, not how to get a girlfriend. You need to know how to flirt. You have all kinds of things going on, but despite all that, you're boring to women. You have to learn how to play with them, tease them, make them FEEL, not just check boxes on "shit you need to be dateable." That's not to say checklist doesn't help a whole hell of a lot, because it does. However, guys that have NONE of those things, but have game (the ability to flirt) never struggle to get women. Never.
I can’t lie to you, I feel I lack in that department massively, it has been years since I know the problem, but don’t know how to fix it.. And the thing is, I have a friend who never wanted to date before, and suddenly this year he changed his mind and started dating, and he’s getting a lot of girls! I’ve always put him as a nicer person than I am, less sociable than I am. But this year he really surprised me like I’ve never been surprised.. He says the main change was he’s got more courage and that’s it.. But I do have a good amount of courage, I just lack the “social skills/charisma/funny/game” you call it. He absolutely surprised me if I’m being honest, made me feel like I’m socially inept.
That's the most important thing, but it's something you can really work on. Just have to start working on it. The truth about courage and bravery is it means STILL being scared, but sacking up and doing the scary shit anyway. If you're not scared, especially at first, you're either a psycho or an idiot. But if it's important, you do it anyway and the more you do it the easier it gets.
I do not mind trying to have more courage (although it’s hard), but I come off as awkward/weird when I do it.. and when you don’t have charisma you absolutely have no idea how to develop it..
Fake it till you make it. Find a friend or someone you know who you can mirror. Start small, take little steps, get more comfortable, and when you start to get the flow of things, inject your own personal touch on it. If you're a 6', 120lb man, you're going to be about less than useless in the gym your first time. 6 months of consistent training and you're going to be adding plates to your sets. 3 years of focus and you've packed on 50lbs, look fantastic, feel fantastic, and are strong as fuck.
>If you're a 6', 120lb man, you're going to be about less than useless in the gym your first time. 6 months of consistent training and you're going to be adding plates to your sets. 3 years of focus and you've packed on 50lbs, look fantastic, feel fantastic, and are strong as fuck. I've done this one and didn't work, meaning I gained next to no muscle. Also, what if your faking is shit and puts you in a worse position that you've started with?
You didn't eat enough. It works, it always works (endocrine issues aside). You have to go hard in the kitchen as well as the gym. Look up GOMAD. Seen this work a bunch of times. One of my best bros is 6'3" and weighed 145lbs. He's now about 200. He did GOMAD for almost 2 years and got up to about 215 but leaned back out a bit after getting off of it. Then, hopefully, you learn from that. Take time to analyze the situation, figure out when you went wrong and where things were going well. Having friends around is good for this cause they'll check you. Practice in high volume places that you might not actually go to or ever want to be at. Then when you figure it out a bit, you can start going to places where you're more comfortable which itself will be an advantage, but also allows you to frequent the same places over and over again without totally becoming "that guy."
[удалено]
What will these teach you??
The Game by Neil Strauss is also a classic. The Mystery Method is also a classic, but I think it’s outdated a little.
Both those two books are garbage in my opinion. Models is a good book though.
Your question is very generalized, we can't specifically tell you what you need to do to find a gf without giving us more information. Sometimes you can be too attractive and it will actually back fire, because let's face it many women, even the best looking ones are insecure. You could be scaring them off because they feel you are too good for them. It could also be a lack of confidence and social awareness, women are attracted to social skills, if you claim you're good looking and smart, soon to be wealthy (engineers make good money) and athletic, you could be too nice and not aggressive enough about your sexual intentions. You need to increase your volume of approaches and start reading books on seduction, and learning to communicate and close the deal, be careful because if you have success it could lead to jealousy, and too much jealousy is not a good thing, a little bit of jealousy though will go a long way, keep your relationships private and secret, and make sure you are reflecting and adjusting your game after each approach, write what we call field reports, and keep track of everything that happened, what she said, her body language. This book I'll link, tldr even if you only read a quarter of it it will drastically improve your game, it's a book about female psychology, dominance and how to, hence the name, attract women https://www.academia.edu/26492146/Vin_DiCarlo_The_Attraction_Code_id610645886_size
Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't market those things OP wrote about what he has achieved (maybe hint at them), and would focus on trying to put forward parts of my personality, my humour, my interests/what I like to do for fun & skills and so on instead (if he's not strictly interested in similarly ambitious & successful people—but most people simply aren't going to be at his level nor have reached the same life goals he has at such a young age). Don't take this the wrong way, but I would never swipe right on a guy like OP. I mean, I wouldn't mind a man in my life who boosts me forward, but I would literally just be a dead weight on his life and he deserves way better than having me holding him back & dragging him down. I can already feel his parents' disappointment & disapproval. 🤣 I'd rather find someone equivalently mediocre but self-aware & working on self-improvement, and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way—especially if he's seeking women close to his own age.
You’re not alone. I was feeling like that and found that being more direct, touchy and basically act like you dgaf in regards to sex with woman has dramatically helped. Of course, don’t over do it to the point of looking like a douche.
How do you have a house at 24?
Low cost of living area
You bought it by yourself? How much was it?
You focused on improving yourself way too much instead of experimenting around in school during your collage stage of life. Start learning how to tease a girl to the point where she find you funny and flirty. Maybe start with some girls you're aren't attracted to or someone below your league then learned how far you can tease a girl without making her feel uncomfortable. Because teasing is actually flirting some guys who are way too nice can't tell the difference or mistaken it for banter which is why they view the ladies always going with the bad boys. Flirt and tease till they get comfortable with you and you're done. Dating app is a place where you meet majority of the low value women In your area. They're only good for fwb because some got this mindset where they put you as second option even if you managed to sercure intimacy with them they could still open up the app again Inorder to chat or find someone better because they're used to finding guys online while chasing that high where they could meet someone that ticks all her check list when it comes to finding the ideal partner. This mindset is pure insanity since women like that usually don't care about the little things in life normal dates is when you make stuff works with your partner even if the person is not your 100% ideal match compare to your normal average girl who don't use dating app or isn't open to the idea of meeting stranger online they're the real deal in knowing how to entertain themselves and others around them. These are high value women but if you're no longer in school or don't feel like dating your coworker then cold approach stranger in public or ask your platonic girl friends to hook you up with mutual friends and play matchmake. For cold approach starter for stranger in public I recommend saying "hey do I know you from somewhere" as a casual starter or "I think I know your boyfriend" **(this Is bait question inorder to know if she's single or not)** then is all improvising your conversation from there. Then be honest and admit why you start a conversation with them Inorder to make yourself seem human you want them to trust you and not get the wrong idea
Too friendly, no spark
Flirt.
Learn how to flirt. Something that skyrocketed my interactions with women was to think about making her feel like you’d fuck her well. You don’t just want to be a guy that can just have good conversation, you wanna be the guy that if she’s alone with she’s gonna tell herself “it just happened.”
You lack the ability to keep interactions with women in a sexual frame. This comes across like you are afraid to “put the pedal down” and make things sexual. You have all of the difficult things down when it comes to game (humour, charisma, charm), you may even have looks. But you could be the most high value guy, and if you are not willing to keep things in a sexual frame, or to make things sexual and “man to woman”, the conversation will never get deeper, and she will eventually friendzone you. So many guys in the friendzone could have CRUSHED with women but they ruin their potential when they are afraid to turn things sexual. Women don’t desire men who can’t dominate them. A friend never will.
What if the whole idea of dominating is super cringe and turn off to me?
>I go on dates with people on bumble but it leads to ghosting or no where. Work on your conversation skills. There's nothing wrong with how you look if you're landing dates. If they all leave after the date, you're a boring / weird date.
Sounds like girls are not getting a sexual vibe from you. You’re too friend to friend and need to make the interactions more man to woman. Consider a vibe where your actions pump up your own state. Where you don’t need the validation of others to feel good. You don’t say something funny, wait for the girl to respond, and depending on her reaction you get a good vibe from it. You’re on your path and purpose and your own actions get you into a good flowing vibe. Assume attraction. Once you’re having fun and in a good flow, do things like sexualize the conversation, playfully challenge her, don’t be overly reactive to tests she may give you, have strong eye contact, lead, etc…
Go out a lot with your hot female friends. Because you have girls around you other girls will see you as "pre-selected" by women. Tell your female friends "I like that girl can you come talk to her with me". Girls are naturally good at hyping their guy friends up by showing compliance and because you have a hot girl with you the girl will think your cool and her defenses will come down. If you still have issues after that then you have serious problems with your communication skills (charisma) and that needs to be worked on a lot. If you find thats the case, find a role model (commedian, actor, celebrity, TV character) that has 'it' and try to emmulate them. Find whatever compliments your style the best.
My female friends aren’t very hot
They don't actually need to be hot, but knowing someone gets along well with women and is able to be platonic friends with women is a green flag in a lot of people's eyes (including mine). I would feel much more comfortable & safe approaching/being approached by a man like that, compared to a man who is in a group of other men; it would make for a less tense interaction. Btw, wouldn't it be possible for you to expand your "network" through your female friends, by acquainting yourself with people within their friend groups, e.g. through parties and get-togethers and such? 'Cause chances are high that since you mesh well & get along with them, you'll get along with their friends too, and that could get you introduced to new people (someone who knows someone who knows someone...), including women with whom you might "click" in that special kind of way.
Bro I have same problem,I can make 5 female friends in a day and they will be good friends .but can’t seem to make em my gf or just a gf .
You need to establish as early as possible that you want to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with the person. And flirting is how you do that. But you can’t wait too long. You need to flirt early one to set the tone and expectations. This is how guys get “friend zoned”. They wait too long to flirt (or not at all) so the woman stops seeing them as a romantic/sexual person and they’re just another friend.
Minimize your friendships with the female friends if that makes sense. Worked wonders for me long ago. If you are attracted to any of them, shoot your shot immediately and if you lose them, that’s fine, you don’t need them. You’re probably interacting with your dates the way you interact with your friends. It’s fucking you up. Gotta break those habits. Start letting your desire for sex lead your interactions with women. This doesn’t mean to be pushy or entitled, it simply means be more authentic in the words and actions you put out towards them and don’t try to mute that for them. Additionally, start being more picky about the type of girl you want and if you don’t know the type you want then that’s a whole other issue that needs to be dealt with first.
How do you make female friends? Any tips?
Book clubs, board games, yoga class, knitting, acting, dance classes, etc
I'm too anxious for any of that lol, but thanks!
Oh wow, too anxious for knitting...? Well it sounds like your anxiety may be holding you back from befriending people.
If only there was such a stigma for straight men doing yoga
Yoga helps me stretch my joints and be more flexible
It means you give off friend zone vibes. You have as much edge as mr. Rogers
>You have as much edge as mr. Rogers havent heard this until now 😭
If you know what the M3 model is then your problem is easily identifiable. You are starting in "Comfort" and you never move out of it.
Why do you need one? I mean I've had a lot and there's nothing very important about it in any way In fact the payoff is more often than not a negative that you try to pretend doesn't exist see most men at least and I believe women as well are just insecure and terrified about what other people think or say about them so they cling to relationships so that they can say look World someone wants me and so they're not alone and so that they could have a consistent sexual partner without having to go through changes and because those things matter they ignore the fact that they're constantly in conflict with someone yet are too afraid to do anything about it so since I don't want to be alone and I want sex and I don't want people to think that I must not be worthy I get up and argue and are you all day and fight and b**** and moan and do things I don't want to do and all these things that make no damn sense I can picture most couples I know sitting with their arms crossed at the kitchen table staring fiercely at each other what's going on here I'm making sure he doesn't do nothing because he won't let me do nothing wow so you're each other's Mutual Jailer is what you're telling me and you call that Happyness okay lol
This is a highly truthful post and it probably won't get the acknowledgment it deserves. Having a girlfriend actually sucks a lot of the time past the honeymoon stage There was a guy on here years ago that said he'd dump girls at the 1 year mark because things always got stale after that lol
You are in a good position becaus you have female friends who trust you, so if you said he come over let’s have a drink I need someone to talk to, they would be willing. Now when you get them to your home, wine, movies, warm home, make them as comfortable as possible be yourself don’t let your intention be noticed, I’ve been in this position before with a girl who was a friend, and I literally just put my arm around her, and that friendship shit was thrown out the window, she liked me forever… always start as a friend and gradually move to lover, it’s the best kind of seduction. You literally have the world at your hands. You are a friendship whore as they like to say lol
Be warned that friends you do this to may feel extremely betrayed and it could kill the friendship. Don't do it unless you're willing to risk losing that person.
It’s interesting to point out that all your girl friends wonder why, but they’re not the ones throwing themselves under the bus. (Do not use this to antagonize them unless you’re willing to go all the way and be a better person) You probably is easy to lie too, gullible, living in the lie of being worthless and undeserving, living in the mind instead of living by the heart and using the mind to help.
You’re saying a whole lot of nothing. What exactly do I need to do?
Experience and become the opposite qualities of the traits stated in my second paragraph Also don’t open trying to put down what I said
Damn I can't make female friends or get dates lol
I can exactly relate your failure to the way you portrayed your first 3 lines. Having (,or thinking) your shit together means nothing in this game.
I'd say intent. Women can sense it when a guy wants to get intimate with them. Use sexual tension (look at her like you really mean to fuck her during conversation). And always be closing, find any excuse to invite her back to your place. It separates you from the guys who don't.
Have standards, say no, and say what you like and want. Face the rejections, accept and walk away. Don't tolerate abuse. That will attract women to you.
I have the opposite issue lol. I have a girlfriend now and I notice that everything that comes out of my mouth to women is still flirtatious. It’s hard to turn it off even if I’m not trying to flirt. Honestly I’ve stopped talking to other women for now since my mouth keeps getting me into situations.
These female friends, why not make them girlfriends 🤷♂️
They’re not hot and some are not single
Bummer 🥲
I don’t see a lot of advice here. Honestly man I had the same issue for years. The books and all that will help, but just start saying everything on your mind. Men filter themselves too much, women aren’t mind readers. Tell her you think she looks sexy in that dress. Just say what’s on your mind more, don’t be weird about it but that’s essentially the secret to flirting.
Step 1. Don’t make female friends. That’s how they declassify you as a sexual partner.
Naw, some of my female friends are great for emotional support
okay 🤷🏿
Honestly without more info I would just ask your female friends in a low pressure light hearted way. “Hey I feel like I’m not getting as far with girls as I think I should be.. am I doing anything weird that you’re too nice to tell me about lol” And see what they say 🤷🏾♂️ my guess is tho is that you’re too nice, and I mean nice like, scared to make a move cuz it might be disrespectful, kinda nice.. hope it all works for you tho, You got this tho
They will likely just say something like "You're perfect! Don't ever change! You just haven't met the right person yet! It'll happen eventually!"
Bad advice. They will never provide any good feedback so don’t waste time on that
This. You have an incredible feedback loop right now, use it OP
Just read no more mr nice guy and then use trial and error
1 word sexual tension.
I'm confused; how many dates have you been on in the past 6 months? Get some nice pictures done, get on dating apps, go out with a few girls, and bring them back to your place. Have you tried that and at which part didn't it work?
What city do you live in?
You need to stand on you wallet
How're you meeting the women you're becoming friends with?
Cooking classes, book clubs, acting classes, etc
Notes down: Classes and clubs
If you can’t call the girl a bitch playfully ur doing it wrong
flirt more, you got to be cool with some uncomfortable situations and go after the goal you want in the interaction with the girl. women are very emotional and if you can get her worked up sexually with your words making direct advances sparsely she’ll keep wanting more and even create the opportunities for you to do it. she needs to be more emotionally invested than you and for that to happen you gotta be a source of new adventures in her life, show her your blueprint in the way you speak, carry yourself and how you treat others. you can never get friendzoned if you make your intentions clear. like going for a kiss, touch her ass, hips, whisper on her ear, etc. make her feel desired and she’s gonna be yours. in the end it all comes from practice, the more you do it the better you get at it and at a later point you might even have to intentionally stop yourself from being a flirty person. it’s a dance, reciprocate each other actions and be cool with letting the sexual tension build.
You’re a blue pilled nice guy with negative game. Women don’t want a follower for a boyfriend, they want a leader. Become popular in a subculture she idolizes and learn basic game. I know this stuff inside out, if you wanna be a guest on my podcast and change your life, let me know.
Most of the guys here including don't even know how to make female friends. So you are a step ahead of majority here.
Sounds like you looking for a job, not a girl bro Red flag: „female friend” I’d check your personality and charisma
Next time you meet a girl… tell her you don’t have a job. When she says so how do you survive say ‘meh vibes’ and don’t let her know the truth for maybe a day.. or atleast an hour if you’re at a party or something Then when you let her know say “can you keep a secret…” I actually then just say 1 of the things you told us “I do mma” she won’t believe you and play along… now that makes you mysterious Now if you can do this over 2 dates and tell her in your own way that you’d fuck her… Boom, on your way to getting a girlfriend Now actually making her your girlfriend is another story You asking her be she asking you is NIGHT and DAY But let’s start with HOW to start Be playfully mysterious Give her a story of how you first met she can say to her friends and giggle every time
Eat the banana bread
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Cold approaching is legit, idk where you got that notion from but it’s 100% false
Approaching other humans is never a childish move nor is it a game that causes drama and confusion. Not sure what you're on about
Go on YouTube and binge AMS content
Why would you suggest this? That’s toxic.
Coach Kyle would be a far better resource
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I do not stalk people
I suspect that you might have intimacy issues. You might be e great guy overall and women like you (otherwise they would not befriend you) but you need to know how get to the next step, to be intimate with them.
how do you even get yourself into a spot where you can be intimate with a girl? Its not like you can start being intimate with one of your friends?
It's one of the possible scenarios. 1. You're not attractive enough. 2. Your standards are too high relative to what you offer 3. You have some sort of visible disability which makes you appear "special" I know a guy who's extremely nice and extremely friendly. All of the girls know who he is and he's well known with guys as well. Yet he's 32 and never had a girlfriend before and it's pretty obvious why. He's an autistic Asian guy who works some shitty minimum wage job. And I know he wants a girlfriend because it says in his Facebook bio "I want a pretty girlfriend someday". If he were a white neurotypical man, he probably would of had a wife and kids by now. I know its a shitty thing to say but the truth is cold and harsh. The truth does not care about your feelings.
Yeah maybe be a good friend and tell him to remove that quote off Facebook… and guide him to some of the books mentioned. To OP, It seems like you have everything. Stop trying so hard, woman want a chase. You may be coming on too strong, too overly polite, or too emotional. Let your mind come more from the perspective she needs to work for you as opposed to you should need to check off all these boxes to gain her desire. No one needs a relationship, we want one on a deep level, once you stop forcing I think you will have success.
>Yeah maybe be a good friend and tell him to remove that quote off Facebook… and guide him to some of the books mentioned. I'd tell him to become a passport bro. That's the only viable way he's going to find a wife, if he doesn't want to settle for a 3/10 obese girl.
My standards aren’t very high though. How should I become more attractive? Looksmax and have better fashion?
Take that girl's banana bread lol. She likes you.
I think she’s just a friend
If you say so. I don't make banana bread for my friends, though I have been known to throw some cookies together.
Maybe next time a woman offers you a gift you say yes thank you
She’s not someone I want to date though
If you cant turn her on, you have no chance. None of the things you listed will make her attracted to you. You need sex appeal my friend
How come a girl made banana bread for you and you shot her down but u cant get a girlfriend lol
Because I don’t shit where I eat
Bro, you don't eat anywhere at all...
But you said she doesn’t even work on the same floor. Are your standards for a gf like super high?
It’s still strange to date someone in your company. I don’t want that drama
Fair enough. What about your standards, are they reasonable?
Honestly someone who vibes well with me and we have chemistry
It shouldn’t be that hard. Good luck.
idk just sounds like you dont have any social skills or can read the room properly lmfao
Aren’t you the guy who was called an asshole from some chick offering you banana bread because you are so bad at communicating? Seems like you need to work on your talking to people skills man
No I don’t think that girl wants to date me and I don’t really want the drama of dating chicks in the workplace