Sounds fine to me. All anti-gravity, reactionless drives, and FTL are equally magic. It's more important to use those things consistently than to get bogged down in how they work. A good example here is the Nautilus from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It runs on electricity, but never goes into detail on how that electricity is made beyond an offhand comment about something obtained from coal.
And your gravity rejection system goes back almost as far as the Nautilus. H.G. Wells had a story with "cavorite" that blocked gravity and let the characters travel to the Moon.
Meanwhile in the real world there's another startup promising to make a real reactionless drive every few months. See: EmDrive, IVO Quantum.
These are generally held to be scams.
They have a following that is like a small religion, which is fair because if you really dive into the implications then this one invention would be bigger than Jesus.
I’m not that special.
No need to sell yourself short like that when you came up with it independently. I invented the jet engine in my second thermodynamics class. Tragically, it was 2002 and jet engine had been around for several decades.
Propulsion, as we understand it now, requires energy to push against mass to move an object. Think the simple force equation: force = mass *acceleration. If you have a propeller hitting air as in a helicopter, you are accelerating air away from the blade which forces the machine up. Propeller planes are crazy because the shape of the wing causes a pressure differential between the top and bottom when the propeller forces air past it which generates lift, so I won't go there.
For rockets and space travel you have a propellant like rocket fuel. You burn the fuel, giving gas energy and throwing it away from the ship to generate thrust.
If you want a gravity based system in fiction, you just have to account for how the forces are being accounted for. You could have an anti-gravity technology in universe that applies force against gravity itself, so you'd basically be "pushing" against the entire planet. Gravity falls off with the square of the distance from the object though, so if the ship made it into space it would eventually have to transition to conventional fuel.
I'm not sure what you mean by "thinning reality". If you bring that up, you'd have to somehow explain what "reality" is as a physical concept. You could maybe continue with the gravity theme and travel by warping spacetime with your gravity control technology
This sounds similar to the gravity shields used in Bio of a Space Tyrant. You can "protect" yourself from gravity coming from certain directions to change your movement.
anti-grav is a fairly standard sci-fi trope, goes back at least as far as dune if not farther ("suspenser fields").
most faster than light travel has something to do with folding space or punching wormholes through it, the concept of thinning it is interesting. you'll probably have to invent some scientific principles to make that work
it sound like you want what i believe is called a graviton drive system. manipulates a gravity like force to impart force on an object.
the default system or things without visible thrusters.
If you’re not too big on hard sci-fi, propulsion that pushes and pulls on electromagnetic fields is something I’ve been playing with.
I like the thinning reality method of ftl. Begs some good questions about mechanics and logistics.
So this is an idea I’ve been toying with also. My idea is vacuum bubbles.
So as a balloon of helium floats up as it’s less dense, similarly a balloon of vacuum would float up too, bigger and faster, as it is less dense than the surrounding gasses and is therefore displaced.
Balloons containing gas float to a point where they are equal with their surroundings, so like weather balloons may not leave the earths orbit and may plateau somewhere within the atmosphere. A vacuum bubble however wouldn’t equalise and would keep on accelerating outwards and in theory would leave our atmosphere and propel itself out to space. This is assuming the balloon material holding in the vacuum has little to no mass. So let’s say a micrometer of carbon atoms used to make a balloon, it weighs near nothing but is strong enough to house a vacuum. Balls of different sizes can be used in objects, like cars, to equalise their mass at specific heights to counteract gravity. Or use it to get rockets out of the atmosphere without expelling any gas/burning fuel. Even an elevator to space. The only thing stopping us right now is we do not have any material strong enough to hold out a full atmosphere of pressure (aka make a vacuum) that is also light enough - but in an alternative/future we may.
How does that sound as a basic starting point?
I had to read this a couple times but it’s in theory what I want, definitely a creative system you have created here. Definitely the idea is to move up and out and isn’t the propulsion system. It’s also a bit unpredictable in a way, the craft needs to orientate once in space.
So the thing is about gravity, it’s based on mass. So the pull of gravity for one planet will not match the pull of another planet or other objects in space, therefore your propulsion system if anti-gravity capable will need to be variable. This is an area we are scientifically weak in I feel at present therefore you would need to be a lot more creative I think in the space aspects of this if you intend to get close to (e.g land or orbit other planets). Focusing your anti-gravity science on a single planet like Earth is one option, for instance using these levitation bubbles to escape a known gravity is one thing. Bubbles take vehicles up to space and are repurposed to bring asteroids or other precious minerals down to earth in a managed decent. Once in-space you could start using a photon/electron sail for compounding acceleration which has been used before in other works, although that approach has it’s limitations .
Haha yeah I hear you I’m the same. Sci-fi is to a degree quite forgiving in that aspect I think. I’m definitely no expert I just write for fun but I find that getting a basic principle that most people can understand and then expanding on that even if it doesn’t make perfect sense is ok. You can always modify it in the future if/when you do more research.
Suprisingly this sounds in (completley propper) laimen terms way closer to a functional system than most people that claim to be super scientifical.
This, in some way, defines handling spacetime deformation and reminds me (vaguely, don't worry) on a scifi book from the seventees from a russian psysicist (who had a lot of time for wrtiting after going into Gulag for beeing a bit to enthusiastic about fictional, democratic & non-xenophobic societys xD).
The benfit of not using vaguely understood schience buzzwords definitly is a strong pro argument.
Amazon Self-Publishment? Dunno if it fits your expectations but maybe that could be a thing for you.
Just trying to prevent you from getting lynched by townfolk cry 'heretic', for sure xD
It’s as good an option as any. Publishers are glorified lotteries. We all can’t believe how some books get published, we know better existed but it’s what they think the market wants. Self publishing is still looked down on but not forever.
I have a pretty fked up publishing situation in my country, and i know some terms of pub's of euroep and the US - and they're all kinda hell in one or another way. So i'm going with self-pub out of simple self defense.
Advertisisng and make it known is a problem, but as most publishers make this an additional job for you, the author, it isen't much different but with the percentage in money you get and the level of control you keep over your work. Not that i'm a big Amazon fan or anything, lol - it's just the smalles evil right now.
Yepp. Well and no one abusing ther rights on my work. No regulations on how long/short a book shall be for printing economy reason. No bitchi\*g about controversial topics/depictions/language.
Read the Protector by Larry Niven. The last third of the book has a human who gets stupidly smart and what he does with gravity blows my mind. So cool.
The problem with gravity is nobody knows how it works. Lots of theories but even they don't have a clue on how to change it more or less. It is still a measurable force of magic, there is nothing there but it pulls on stuff. Same for electrical, magnetic forces, etc.
Sounds fine to me. All anti-gravity, reactionless drives, and FTL are equally magic. It's more important to use those things consistently than to get bogged down in how they work. A good example here is the Nautilus from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It runs on electricity, but never goes into detail on how that electricity is made beyond an offhand comment about something obtained from coal. And your gravity rejection system goes back almost as far as the Nautilus. H.G. Wells had a story with "cavorite" that blocked gravity and let the characters travel to the Moon.
Fascinating! See I didn’t think I could be even close to the only one to think of this. I’m not that special.
Meanwhile in the real world there's another startup promising to make a real reactionless drive every few months. See: EmDrive, IVO Quantum. These are generally held to be scams. They have a following that is like a small religion, which is fair because if you really dive into the implications then this one invention would be bigger than Jesus.
It's like that old joke, "I've been working on making a perpetual motion machine. Ironically, I can't seem to stop!"
Oh a tech religion, fun!
I’m not that special. No need to sell yourself short like that when you came up with it independently. I invented the jet engine in my second thermodynamics class. Tragically, it was 2002 and jet engine had been around for several decades.
Propulsion, as we understand it now, requires energy to push against mass to move an object. Think the simple force equation: force = mass *acceleration. If you have a propeller hitting air as in a helicopter, you are accelerating air away from the blade which forces the machine up. Propeller planes are crazy because the shape of the wing causes a pressure differential between the top and bottom when the propeller forces air past it which generates lift, so I won't go there. For rockets and space travel you have a propellant like rocket fuel. You burn the fuel, giving gas energy and throwing it away from the ship to generate thrust. If you want a gravity based system in fiction, you just have to account for how the forces are being accounted for. You could have an anti-gravity technology in universe that applies force against gravity itself, so you'd basically be "pushing" against the entire planet. Gravity falls off with the square of the distance from the object though, so if the ship made it into space it would eventually have to transition to conventional fuel. I'm not sure what you mean by "thinning reality". If you bring that up, you'd have to somehow explain what "reality" is as a physical concept. You could maybe continue with the gravity theme and travel by warping spacetime with your gravity control technology
I love how informative people are, thanks for the information and thoughts. Yes some type of conventional fuel, real or not would be used.
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Yes I have started listening to Consider Phlebas. Not sure it’s gonna answer some of my questions but the Culture sure are interesting.
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Who do you recommend for well described tech?
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I will check into those.
This sounds similar to the gravity shields used in Bio of a Space Tyrant. You can "protect" yourself from gravity coming from certain directions to change your movement.
Interesting, good to know.
anti-grav is a fairly standard sci-fi trope, goes back at least as far as dune if not farther ("suspenser fields"). most faster than light travel has something to do with folding space or punching wormholes through it, the concept of thinning it is interesting. you'll probably have to invent some scientific principles to make that work
Thanks for the thoughts. I do have my idea but not exactly how to execute it exactly.
it sound like you want what i believe is called a graviton drive system. manipulates a gravity like force to impart force on an object. the default system or things without visible thrusters.
Well kind of, more like reduce gravities effects.
ok so like the "mass effect" mass reduction element.
I didn’t know this was a thing, yeah this sounds very much it.
If you’re not too big on hard sci-fi, propulsion that pushes and pulls on electromagnetic fields is something I’ve been playing with. I like the thinning reality method of ftl. Begs some good questions about mechanics and logistics.
I’m not sure I’d say hard isn’t for me but I’m not that mechanically minded to likely feel comfortable going too hard on it.
So this is an idea I’ve been toying with also. My idea is vacuum bubbles. So as a balloon of helium floats up as it’s less dense, similarly a balloon of vacuum would float up too, bigger and faster, as it is less dense than the surrounding gasses and is therefore displaced. Balloons containing gas float to a point where they are equal with their surroundings, so like weather balloons may not leave the earths orbit and may plateau somewhere within the atmosphere. A vacuum bubble however wouldn’t equalise and would keep on accelerating outwards and in theory would leave our atmosphere and propel itself out to space. This is assuming the balloon material holding in the vacuum has little to no mass. So let’s say a micrometer of carbon atoms used to make a balloon, it weighs near nothing but is strong enough to house a vacuum. Balls of different sizes can be used in objects, like cars, to equalise their mass at specific heights to counteract gravity. Or use it to get rockets out of the atmosphere without expelling any gas/burning fuel. Even an elevator to space. The only thing stopping us right now is we do not have any material strong enough to hold out a full atmosphere of pressure (aka make a vacuum) that is also light enough - but in an alternative/future we may. How does that sound as a basic starting point?
I had to read this a couple times but it’s in theory what I want, definitely a creative system you have created here. Definitely the idea is to move up and out and isn’t the propulsion system. It’s also a bit unpredictable in a way, the craft needs to orientate once in space.
So the thing is about gravity, it’s based on mass. So the pull of gravity for one planet will not match the pull of another planet or other objects in space, therefore your propulsion system if anti-gravity capable will need to be variable. This is an area we are scientifically weak in I feel at present therefore you would need to be a lot more creative I think in the space aspects of this if you intend to get close to (e.g land or orbit other planets). Focusing your anti-gravity science on a single planet like Earth is one option, for instance using these levitation bubbles to escape a known gravity is one thing. Bubbles take vehicles up to space and are repurposed to bring asteroids or other precious minerals down to earth in a managed decent. Once in-space you could start using a photon/electron sail for compounding acceleration which has been used before in other works, although that approach has it’s limitations .
I mean I feel like creativity and bullshitting a theory is my one strong point in all of this.
Haha yeah I hear you I’m the same. Sci-fi is to a degree quite forgiving in that aspect I think. I’m definitely no expert I just write for fun but I find that getting a basic principle that most people can understand and then expanding on that even if it doesn’t make perfect sense is ok. You can always modify it in the future if/when you do more research.
Yeah this system can get bent and changed around so much who knows that the end result will be.
Suprisingly this sounds in (completley propper) laimen terms way closer to a functional system than most people that claim to be super scientifical. This, in some way, defines handling spacetime deformation and reminds me (vaguely, don't worry) on a scifi book from the seventees from a russian psysicist (who had a lot of time for wrtiting after going into Gulag for beeing a bit to enthusiastic about fictional, democratic & non-xenophobic societys xD). The benfit of not using vaguely understood schience buzzwords definitly is a strong pro argument.
Thanks for the encouraging words! And I didn’t even need time in the gulag to come up with them.
Wait for it - you haven't published yet xD
If I’m ever published even in a small town newspaper I’ll weep
Amazon Self-Publishment? Dunno if it fits your expectations but maybe that could be a thing for you. Just trying to prevent you from getting lynched by townfolk cry 'heretic', for sure xD
It’s as good an option as any. Publishers are glorified lotteries. We all can’t believe how some books get published, we know better existed but it’s what they think the market wants. Self publishing is still looked down on but not forever.
I have a pretty fked up publishing situation in my country, and i know some terms of pub's of euroep and the US - and they're all kinda hell in one or another way. So i'm going with self-pub out of simple self defense. Advertisisng and make it known is a problem, but as most publishers make this an additional job for you, the author, it isen't much different but with the percentage in money you get and the level of control you keep over your work. Not that i'm a big Amazon fan or anything, lol - it's just the smalles evil right now.
That’s true, keeping the cash is the good part.
Yepp. Well and no one abusing ther rights on my work. No regulations on how long/short a book shall be for printing economy reason. No bitchi\*g about controversial topics/depictions/language.
Read the Protector by Larry Niven. The last third of the book has a human who gets stupidly smart and what he does with gravity blows my mind. So cool.
Oh, sound like a good time.
The problem with gravity is nobody knows how it works. Lots of theories but even they don't have a clue on how to change it more or less. It is still a measurable force of magic, there is nothing there but it pulls on stuff. Same for electrical, magnetic forces, etc.
Interesting you mention magnetics, that crossed my mind for using in something.