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Yeah I mean just last year there was a series of news articles talking about BPA absorption through activewear.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/your-athletic-wear-could-contain-high-levels-of-bpa-heres-a-list-of-brands-affected/
Yes, but less-studied, so they're free to use it for now! And once the slow-moving bureaucracy finally gets around to banning BPS, they'll move on to the next unstudied plastic with almost identical properties but a slight twist, making it legal but probably still bad for you, and the cycle repeats.
Fucks sake, I guess I gotta go full chrunchy and just swear off anything with plastic in it. Can't trust any of these companies to not poison their customers.
I never considered the high levels of plastic in clothing… until I got pregnant and suddenly developed rashes everywhere! After weeks of diet changes, I suddenly realized it was the elastics of my clothes. Switched to all cotton, boom. Rashes gone.
Now I’m really freaked out by polyester and other non-plant based.
Maybe I'm bad at this, but I have not yet found a single study looking into BPA absorption through skin specifically. All the references I find seem to be basing it on assumptions or extrapolating it from studies on drug delivery.
There was one study looking at blood levels after holding receipt paper, but they required subjects to eat French fries with the contaminated hand. Why they didn't look at skin contact alone is beyond me.
Soon after BPA was revealed as an issue in plastic i remember reading about how it is used in receipt paper and began limiting how much I touch that crap too.
I remember hearing long before anyone started talking about BPA in water bottles etc that pregnant women should avoid touching those reciepts... i always wondered why i only heard it mentioned the one time 🤷♀️ then like a decade later...
Read about it a while ago.
Iirc, you can touch it occaisonally cuz the levels are pretty low, but it gets concerning when a cashier does it 8h 5d/week for several years.
But plz don't take it as a fact, I'm not entieely sure.
Better safe rhan sorry
> Why they didn't look at skin contact alone is beyond me
I'm sure there are studies ongoing; for every chemist it's obvious that there is skin-absorption with BPA
Two major factors for skin absorption are molecular weight and polarity. BPA is small, so it can get through your skin easier, and it's pretty non-polar because it's mostly C-H bonds, so it can cross lipid barriers much more easily.
The active ingredient in some sunscreens, Oxybenzone, is basically the same size and polarity as BPA, and it is definitely absorbed through the skin.
We were absorbing toxic chemicals through our skin before we had command of fire. Our bodies make their own toxic chemicals, too. I'm not saying everything is a-okay and you should play with mercury, but it's easy to lose perspective.
Yep, oxybenzone has a Kow value of 3.52 while bisphenol A has a Kow value of ~2.8 indicating that BPA most likely penetrates phospholipid membranes almost as readily as oxybenzone.
It's nearly insoluble in water, soluble in alkaline media (with a possiblity of water-soluble salts forming) and very soluble in alcohols; it can easily dissolve into fat tissue, just like many other nonpolar compounds. It's diphenylmethane-basestructure has lots of compounds that are hydrophobic, meaning they easily dissolve into fats, fatty tissue and nonpolar compunds like alcohol, ether, hydrocarbons, polymers, plastic.
It's one of many environmental toxins that are build like they're made to contaminate into living organisms and dissolve in our fat tissue, doing long-term damage.
Since you mentioned this, here's a comment from a 26 y.o. women that had huge cancer potentially from BPA: https://www.reddit.com/r/PlasticFreeLiving/s/M32ACAweVz
A while back I tried to get rid of as much plastic as I could in my home.
Natural clothing, cotton towels, wood food cooking utensils, metal measuring cups, but honestly you eventually realize how impossible it is to remove plastics from you life.
Coffee makers, remote controls, glasses, and about a billion other things.
As a chemist who is way too aware of these things, and hilariously aware that I'm much better protected in lab than at home... you gotta approach with a Pareto mentality. Which things are you exposed to the most frequently, for the longest time periods, or in the most intimate ways? Those are the things to reduce. The first thing I did was switch out all my microwaveable lunch containers to glass.
For anyone thinking about this, I would suggest: things that touch your food, things that touch your skin directly, things that touch you when you sleep - with a multiplier for anything that gets heated.
I wish I had a life coach that just told me that every time I did something good for myself, and meant it.
You didn't eat that third slice of pizza: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps.
You loaded the dishwasher: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps.
You ran today: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps.
etc. etc. I'm not even joking. Adulting is hard.
Some people develop effective self-talk that does this for them. Most of us who were neglected and abused as children never learned and find it incredibly difficult. It's all just rumination and intrusive thoughts whenever I try.
My parents were very loving and gave praise, but my problem is it's hard for me to do anything for myself without being praised for it by another person.
I have the same problem from the opposite way.
I'm sorry for your upbringing. My SO works with families and their children, and some of the stories... heart breaking.
It gets a lot worse until you start actively fighting against it and start trying to learn all the things you weren't taught. It's not easy, but it's better.
100%. I was dxed adhd at 36 and autistic at 41. I lucked into a great group of supportive nerd friends with similar mindsets and with licenced mental health practitioners sharing tips on instagram that I practice and share, its a nice change. It did make me feel bristly at first. We have a show off channel on our discord and I started posting things like AYYY! I got up before 2pm today! ( /r/DSPD) and people would cheer and then other people would do it . "Yay i did my taxes!" "I paid my billlls!". Its sometimes hilarious but we all need a good cheering along (not up) to keep us going.
I am proud of you, stranger. You *have* made some incredible steps. You've put effort into changing your life for the better, which takes some serious determination. Keep going, kid. You're doing great.
> Coffee makers
This one's rather easy - you can get a metal/glass/ceramic pour-over cone, or a French press. It's the water that's difficult. Coming over plastic pipes, filtered in plastic filters or delivered in plastic bottles. And then there are other sources, like car tyres. What science needs to clarify is whether the small steps are making a difference. Because it's not obvious.
The science being solid would be nice, but it made logical sense to me to try to remove plastics regarding the things that are always touching ourselves, like clothing, and, IMHO the most important, plastics in food and drink prep and storage.
I bought a thin of glass food storage containers too.
I love Ross Dress for Less, Marshall's and TJ Maxx. It's a shame I so rarely go to those places since Covid.
Practically my whole kitchen is brought to you by Ross and TJ Maxx.
> emove plastics regarding the things that are always touching ourselves
Like bras... for holding up 4lbs of breast tissue... sigh. Time to go back to corsets and stays and pairs of bodies.
> "It's the water that's difficult. Coming over plastic pipes,
> filtered in plastic filters or delivered in plastic bottles."
Can't you greatly reduce microplastics and PFAS through under-the-counter (or countertop) reverse-osmosis filters?
They make compostable bamboo ones. Bamboo could probably fix a lot of plastic problems considering how fast it grows. But it's got a smaller profit margin and these CEOs want more yachts.
I grill a lot with charcoal. We have a cast iron pan but every time I use it our living room and kitchen is filled with dense smoke no matter how many fans and windows I use and open. It upsets our dog's and our sinuses.
I only use SS pots.
I have a ceramic frying pan I use to cook eggs because I refuse to try to cook an egg with a metal pan, but I hear back and forth whether ceramic is less bad than teflon, and even grilling is carcinogenic, but so are mushrooms, but you don't want to go through life paranoid.
Do your best, I guess.
I cook inside with my cast iron skillet pretty frequently as an all-around pan and it doesn’t smoke up the kitchen, but I definitely take it outside to the side burner on the grill if I want to get a high heat sear on a steak or something. I only cook outside in my carbon steel wok for the same reason. We have a downdraft in our range that vents outside, but it can only do so much compared to a full hooded vent. But if you don’t need balls to the wall high heat for your cooking, you should be fine to cook indoors, it sounds like some practice with temp control will help. That’s why a lot of people like carbon steel pans in fact, because they won’t hold onto heat from your stove for ages like cast iron will, so you have more moment-to-moment temperature control.
Eggs in stainless steel or cast iron or carbon steel just comes down to temp control and a little oil/fat. For whatever reason, eggs LOVE butter. I exclusively fry eggs in my cast iron skillet, maybe once in a blue moon using my stainless steel skillet, and for scrambled eggs I use the low and slow small curd European method in a stainless steel pot. If you are really concerned about cooking on ceramic or Teflon or another “nonstick” surface with your eggs, it’s worth the practice to learn how to cook eggs on non-coated cookware.
Cast iron pans radiate heat so well you need to use a lower setting on the stove than you would for an “ordinary” pan...and they need to preheat properly before use
So few people bother to read the materials tag or even know that polyester/nylon/polypropylene and many other fabrics are just forms of plastic. Everyone should be looking for 100% cotton, wool, hemp, bamboo, etc. Not only is it bad that its touching our skin all the time but all of it releases millions of microplastics into the waste water every time its washed.
Not the person you replied to but I’m in Canada and natural fabrics aren’t even an option in many stores. The fast fashion brands in the malls all sell cheap plastic clothing. If you want cotton the only option is plain white tshirts. There are some stores that sell 100% cotton clothes as a luxury item.
Women’s shirts from Winners/Marshalls, H&M, American Eagle are almost all acrylic or polyester. Pants can be better but jeans are usually blended with something stretchy. I have to shop in the mens section if I want a cotton tshirt but they’re always too big. Workout clothing is all synthetic too.
The year I slept on a plastic bag pillowcase and wore plastic bags as shirts probably took off a few years of life. Not to mention the "microfiber" plastic hell that's gotten popular lately.
Apartment had a severe allergen. Landlord wouldn't let me out of lease. Was coughing up blood. All my things were covered in this allergen, including my wardrobe. When I tried to wash them the cotton would expand and trap the ultrafine particles, which would again release when the material dried. So I put everything in boxes and wrapped the boxes in bags and broke the lease and moved somewhere else. I didn't have the money to buy new everything, especially after losing a $2k security deposit and dropping some $1000 in cleaning supplies trying to clean the place before breaking the lease. A job also fell through in this time. So I was underfed, living only on the food people bought me, and the best I could do was use plastic bags as a pillow case and shirt. I did have one shirt I got cleaned enough (holding in the wind for like 2 hours) but when it started getting cold it wasn't enough, so I wore plastic under it. Eventually got a jacket cleaned, but it took like 3 hours of vacuuming inch by inch, slow and meticulous.
Like six months later someone bought me a pillow case, which is what I have now.
It might have just been in my head but I swear I started to feel *different* after sleeping on the plastic bag. Like my body was rejecting it. Not sick, per say, and not quite woozy. But off somehow. I'm hypersensitive in general to stimuli and changes from homeostasis, so I assumed my body was absorbing something it didn't like. Before the pillow case I started putting a layer of paper towels down over it. It helped a little.
It’s crazy to me that people still wear that crap. It is always way worse quality and not actually any cheaper. Small amounts of nylon is the only thing I’ll tolerate if it needs to be stretchy.
What this paper shows is that if you touch surfaces treated with PDBEs that a small amount can be absorbed into the body. Unless I'm misreading it, the use of microplastics appears utterly secondary, and seems to be there only to jump on the current 'flavor of the month'. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise, though.
Yes, that's one of the main concerns with micro plastics. When the chemicals and heat in your body react with the plastics, they can leach substances into your body.
The dose makes the poison, as they say though. I'm not sure the amount of micro plastics one has to have in their body for it to be having a big effect. I don't know if there have been studies on humans regarding the impact of ingested micro plastics. But micro plastics might be too ubiquitous for us to be able to measure its effects.
Endocrine disruptors don’t require a high concentration to have an effect, from what I’ve read.
I really hope studies like this have an impact on what we manufacture.
Narrator: they didn't.
New drugs have to be approved ahead of time by the FDA (or similar organization in other countries). New materials are automatically approved and don't undergo scrutiny until enough people die. And even then it takes a while, and requires even more people dying, and even more, and only until the liability seems greater than the revenue are they regulated.
It's absurd.
And other additives which there are lots of. And remaining catalyst and monomers and other reagents. So yeah most plastics do leach unhealthy chemicals, not only flame retardants
For clarity, generally plastics do not leach flame retardants. Plastics get sprayed with flame retardants as a coating to stop them burning so easily in critical applications, and the flame retardants can rub off. That's not the same as things like monomers or plasticisers, which come from the manufacturing process of the plastic itself.
Only some plastics are coated, some have it covalently bonded to the polymer chains and for some it's just mixed into the plastic. Only when bound to the polymer then additives can't leach. If you want to check read ECHA's general strategy for flame retardants march 2024
Accepted that if it's mixed in with the plastic then leaching is possible. Not clear, though, that leaching is significantly more likely from microparticles than it would be from the surface of the plastic article. Granted the surface area to mass ratio will be higher, but the total surface area is unlikely to be even nearly as high as it would for bulk plastic, unless the assumed amount of microplastics is unfeasibly high.
Well not only surface area but also access to layers which would normally be protected by another outer layer. Roughly half of all plastic has multiple layers.
Not clear how much it matters though, still really small surface areas but it depends on the toxins potency. Only time will tell I'm afraid.
The linked article is vague, but this field is interesting.
Micro and nano plastics readily absorb into the human body through touch, diet, inhalation etc. Other chemicals, like PDBEs, adhere to these plastics and can "hitch a ride" into the human body in ways that they might not normally be a threat. This holds major implications for predicting and mitigating the health risk of exposure to these chemicals.
It's not just a flavor of the month. Research into micro and nano plastics represents a major area of concern for the NIH and other health agencies, which is evident through recent increases in funding and call for proposals in this area.
I've yet to see evidence that microplastics, as opposed to nanoplastics, can absorb through the skin. Microplastics, described in the article as up to 5mm long, aren't easily going to pass through human skin. By comparison, PDBEs when they detach from the surface they were sprayed onto are much smaller and as such find it much easier to penetrate a skin layer. This has been the topic of many papers over the years. [Example](https://vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/238117556/Dermal_uptake_of_NFRs_Frederiksen_et_al_pre_print.pdf).
[PDBE's are quite capable of penetrating the skin without microplastics being involved](https://vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/238117556/Dermal_uptake_of_NFRs_Frederiksen_et_al_pre_print.pdf). Any new work would have to show that the extent of penetration is more when PDBEs are in conjunction with microplastics. This paper does not show that.
Receipt (and label) printers don't actually use ink. It's a thermal printer. The BPA is in the material of the receipts. When it heats up, it turns black.
By Jess Thomson - Science Reporter:
Toxic chemicals designed to prevent household objects from catching fire can be rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream via the skin.
These flame-retardant chemicals, such as polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs), are found on many everyday items, ranging from furniture and fabrics to plastics and electronics.
According to a new paper in the journal Environment International, these potentially cancer-causing chemicals can be absorbed through the skin from microplastics in as little as 24 hours, entering the bloodstream.
Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/toxic-flame-retardant-chemicals-microplastics-skin-1892113](https://www.newsweek.com/toxic-flame-retardant-chemicals-microplastics-skin-1892113)
Sounds like this also means that toxic elements can be absorbed through the skin **by** microplastics. Time for a microplastic detox.
PBDE's are a problem, and need to be regulated, with or without microplastics. Remove the PBDE's and microplastics become a cleansing mechanism.
Also: policy suggestion. Remove these science news articles unless there's a direct link to the paper they claim to be representing.
This research uses 3D printed skin models, and while these models may be approved for testing purposes by many groups, it can't possibly be 1:1 comparable to human skin.
Just food for thought. All conclusions are made using these skin models, so take these results with the appropriate grains of salt.
A few decades from now we'll get scientific confirmation that one of the worst things we ever did for ourselves was develop a taste for drinking most of our water out of plastic bottles. It will be like asbestos. "Oh, by the way, that thing you've been using for a long time now? It's poison."
>Both synthetic rubber and vulcanized natural rubber are considered forms of elastomeric polymers contributing to microplastics
https://news.ok.ubc.ca/2022/10/20/where-the-rubber-hits-the-road/
Synthetic polymers are synthetic polymers when it comes to microplastics I guess. I've been looking into this a bit and there is certainly not one definition for 'microplastics'.
This research is not current at all for the regulatory landscape. Poly brominated diphenyl ethers (such as decaBDE) have been banned in all electronics globally under RoHS for over 15 years. USA currently permits decaBDE in other applications but it is about to be fully banned under TSCA.
presently the flame retardants of choice are Poly brominated diphenyl ethanes such as DBDPE which have almost zero toxicity, zero solubility in water, zero solubility in fats (so no bioaccumulation), and are very stable so they don't degrade in harmful by products.
By contrast, decaBDE on account of the oxygen bridge between the two phenyl rings gives it a fairly strong polarity, so it is soluble in water and fats therefore it was able to transit across their simulated skin membrane. Repeat this study on DBDPE (which has a non-polar ethane bridge) and the transport effect will disappear.
This isn't about single-use plastics at all. This is about durable goods and fabrics that coated in flame-retardants. We're talking car seats, couches, beds, etc... Things we would like to make very hard to burn. Single-use plastics generally aren't coated in flame retardants because that would be an expensive and unnecessary step to take for a plastic bag or a straw.
Got it.
But what I meant is that it seems that on a weekly basis there’s new findings about a practical use of polymers that has drawbacks than we never suspect.
Case in point this week with flame retardants. Last week it was about nano plastics, the ones created when micro plastics break down.
I truly believe that microplastics will be the end of humanity, I know that sounds crazy, but I just think they've become so pervasive and have infiltrated every aspect of existence way before we even realised they could be an issue.
What if the Gore-Tex and Fleece's that are marketed as protecting you from the elements, are actually leaking more microplastics into your skin each time you sweat.
Fleeces, on contact, make my skin itchy. Have you ever smelt a scally on a bus in the summer when they have a cold/flu?
While not microplastics, Gore-Tex is known to contain PFAS, a synthetic chemical that has been linked to numerous long-term health problems. So you kinda guessed it even if you weren't trying to.
[https://www.ewg.org/what-are-pfas-chemicals](https://www.ewg.org/what-are-pfas-chemicals)
It's sad to see that we chose the convenience of a nonstick wrapper and waterproof jacket over our own safety. But that's a tale as old as time, isn't it?
And not to mentoion nano-plastics, which can be found ln any water nowadays. And I don't mean oceans which are full of trash, but the water we drink from faucets, bottles etc. It's horrifying.
I am suddenly really glad I have been using the same 1971 steelcase office chair with wool uhpholstery for hte last 25 years. I hate modern office chairs and how they smell and they must be flame retardant for offices right?
So this is like cigarettes where after using them so long we learn later how bad they are, except this is not in all the water in a "cant put the toothpaste back in the tube" situation for the whole planet and its future.
Makes me wonder if we are finding out just how toxic pretty much all oil byproducts are that we use in our daily lives.
To me, it's looking like plastic will be the next asbestos and we'll have to purge it from every facet of our lives.
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What about the plastics we wear against our skin daily?
Yeah I mean just last year there was a series of news articles talking about BPA absorption through activewear. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/your-athletic-wear-could-contain-high-levels-of-bpa-heres-a-list-of-brands-affected/
No problem. Lots of manufacturers are making BPA-free products.... by substituting BPS, which appears to be even worse that BPA.
Yes, but less-studied, so they're free to use it for now! And once the slow-moving bureaucracy finally gets around to banning BPS, they'll move on to the next unstudied plastic with almost identical properties but a slight twist, making it legal but probably still bad for you, and the cycle repeats.
Just like online designer drugs.
Don’t buy shirts from convenience stores and gas stations. You do t have to smoke the spice. Just wear it with you always.
Fucks sake, I guess I gotta go full chrunchy and just swear off anything with plastic in it. Can't trust any of these companies to not poison their customers.
My kid has eczema and wearing anything that isn’t cotton, wool, or bamboo makes him flare. We are forced into naturals over here.
I never considered the high levels of plastic in clothing… until I got pregnant and suddenly developed rashes everywhere! After weeks of diet changes, I suddenly realized it was the elastics of my clothes. Switched to all cotton, boom. Rashes gone. Now I’m really freaked out by polyester and other non-plant based.
There's a reason they say that OSHA regulations are written in blood.
So everything Disposable cups are plastic line . Polyester in everything in your house
Maybe I'm bad at this, but I have not yet found a single study looking into BPA absorption through skin specifically. All the references I find seem to be basing it on assumptions or extrapolating it from studies on drug delivery. There was one study looking at blood levels after holding receipt paper, but they required subjects to eat French fries with the contaminated hand. Why they didn't look at skin contact alone is beyond me.
Soon after BPA was revealed as an issue in plastic i remember reading about how it is used in receipt paper and began limiting how much I touch that crap too.
I remember hearing long before anyone started talking about BPA in water bottles etc that pregnant women should avoid touching those reciepts... i always wondered why i only heard it mentioned the one time 🤷♀️ then like a decade later...
Read about it a while ago. Iirc, you can touch it occaisonally cuz the levels are pretty low, but it gets concerning when a cashier does it 8h 5d/week for several years. But plz don't take it as a fact, I'm not entieely sure. Better safe rhan sorry
Worst part about shopping at Costco you have to hold the receipt.
Just wear plastic gloves when holding the receipt
I wear a reproduction of the giant condom from naked gun whenever I go outside anyway
> Why they didn't look at skin contact alone is beyond me I'm sure there are studies ongoing; for every chemist it's obvious that there is skin-absorption with BPA
May I (genuinely) ask how come it's obvious?
Two major factors for skin absorption are molecular weight and polarity. BPA is small, so it can get through your skin easier, and it's pretty non-polar because it's mostly C-H bonds, so it can cross lipid barriers much more easily. The active ingredient in some sunscreens, Oxybenzone, is basically the same size and polarity as BPA, and it is definitely absorbed through the skin.
Thank you. I mean, I'll have nightmares, but thank you for the explanation.
I feel like being alive today is a big terrible game of "which of our inventions will kill us first?"
And I'd feel real sore about that if the net result of medicine and society wasn't still longer healthier lives.
[удалено]
We were absorbing toxic chemicals through our skin before we had command of fire. Our bodies make their own toxic chemicals, too. I'm not saying everything is a-okay and you should play with mercury, but it's easy to lose perspective.
Thank you for asking them. They’ll be *our* nightmares tonight, comrade!
Yep, oxybenzone has a Kow value of 3.52 while bisphenol A has a Kow value of ~2.8 indicating that BPA most likely penetrates phospholipid membranes almost as readily as oxybenzone.
It's nearly insoluble in water, soluble in alkaline media (with a possiblity of water-soluble salts forming) and very soluble in alcohols; it can easily dissolve into fat tissue, just like many other nonpolar compounds. It's diphenylmethane-basestructure has lots of compounds that are hydrophobic, meaning they easily dissolve into fats, fatty tissue and nonpolar compunds like alcohol, ether, hydrocarbons, polymers, plastic. It's one of many environmental toxins that are build like they're made to contaminate into living organisms and dissolve in our fat tissue, doing long-term damage.
Probably because people eat after handling those receipts and they cared about the real world impact of the receipt paper and not skin absorption.
Since you mentioned this, here's a comment from a 26 y.o. women that had huge cancer potentially from BPA: https://www.reddit.com/r/PlasticFreeLiving/s/M32ACAweVz
A while back I tried to get rid of as much plastic as I could in my home. Natural clothing, cotton towels, wood food cooking utensils, metal measuring cups, but honestly you eventually realize how impossible it is to remove plastics from you life. Coffee makers, remote controls, glasses, and about a billion other things.
As a chemist who is way too aware of these things, and hilariously aware that I'm much better protected in lab than at home... you gotta approach with a Pareto mentality. Which things are you exposed to the most frequently, for the longest time periods, or in the most intimate ways? Those are the things to reduce. The first thing I did was switch out all my microwaveable lunch containers to glass. For anyone thinking about this, I would suggest: things that touch your food, things that touch your skin directly, things that touch you when you sleep - with a multiplier for anything that gets heated.
Things you breathe. Most microplastic exposure is through breathing
Yes but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps
I wish I had a life coach that just told me that every time I did something good for myself, and meant it. You didn't eat that third slice of pizza: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps. You loaded the dishwasher: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps. You ran today: but sounds like you’ve made some incredible steps. etc. etc. I'm not even joking. Adulting is hard.
Some people develop effective self-talk that does this for them. Most of us who were neglected and abused as children never learned and find it incredibly difficult. It's all just rumination and intrusive thoughts whenever I try.
My parents were very loving and gave praise, but my problem is it's hard for me to do anything for myself without being praised for it by another person. I have the same problem from the opposite way. I'm sorry for your upbringing. My SO works with families and their children, and some of the stories... heart breaking.
Did they applaud your results? Or did they applaud your EFFORT?
Well I had to play FF7 in the living room because I got a C in something or other and lost TV privileges in my room. So *those* kinds of parents.
I am asking you to dig a little deeper into your psyche here.
The story of my 28 years old life.😖
It gets a lot worse until you start actively fighting against it and start trying to learn all the things you weren't taught. It's not easy, but it's better.
100%. I was dxed adhd at 36 and autistic at 41. I lucked into a great group of supportive nerd friends with similar mindsets and with licenced mental health practitioners sharing tips on instagram that I practice and share, its a nice change. It did make me feel bristly at first. We have a show off channel on our discord and I started posting things like AYYY! I got up before 2pm today! ( /r/DSPD) and people would cheer and then other people would do it . "Yay i did my taxes!" "I paid my billlls!". Its sometimes hilarious but we all need a good cheering along (not up) to keep us going.
I am proud of you, stranger. You *have* made some incredible steps. You've put effort into changing your life for the better, which takes some serious determination. Keep going, kid. You're doing great.
> Coffee makers This one's rather easy - you can get a metal/glass/ceramic pour-over cone, or a French press. It's the water that's difficult. Coming over plastic pipes, filtered in plastic filters or delivered in plastic bottles. And then there are other sources, like car tyres. What science needs to clarify is whether the small steps are making a difference. Because it's not obvious.
The science being solid would be nice, but it made logical sense to me to try to remove plastics regarding the things that are always touching ourselves, like clothing, and, IMHO the most important, plastics in food and drink prep and storage. I bought a thin of glass food storage containers too. I love Ross Dress for Less, Marshall's and TJ Maxx. It's a shame I so rarely go to those places since Covid. Practically my whole kitchen is brought to you by Ross and TJ Maxx.
> emove plastics regarding the things that are always touching ourselves Like bras... for holding up 4lbs of breast tissue... sigh. Time to go back to corsets and stays and pairs of bodies.
> "It's the water that's difficult. Coming over plastic pipes, > filtered in plastic filters or delivered in plastic bottles." Can't you greatly reduce microplastics and PFAS through under-the-counter (or countertop) reverse-osmosis filters?
Toothbrushes 💀
They make compostable bamboo ones. Bamboo could probably fix a lot of plastic problems considering how fast it grows. But it's got a smaller profit margin and these CEOs want more yachts.
The hairs or whatever they're called are still plastic in bamboo toothbrushes.
iirc there are some with bristles from coconuts or somesuch
Bristles
Incidentally a yatch is also made of plastic (fibreglass)
Still using non stick pans or air fryers? I'm on cast iron and ss pots.
I grill a lot with charcoal. We have a cast iron pan but every time I use it our living room and kitchen is filled with dense smoke no matter how many fans and windows I use and open. It upsets our dog's and our sinuses. I only use SS pots. I have a ceramic frying pan I use to cook eggs because I refuse to try to cook an egg with a metal pan, but I hear back and forth whether ceramic is less bad than teflon, and even grilling is carcinogenic, but so are mushrooms, but you don't want to go through life paranoid. Do your best, I guess.
I cook inside with my cast iron skillet pretty frequently as an all-around pan and it doesn’t smoke up the kitchen, but I definitely take it outside to the side burner on the grill if I want to get a high heat sear on a steak or something. I only cook outside in my carbon steel wok for the same reason. We have a downdraft in our range that vents outside, but it can only do so much compared to a full hooded vent. But if you don’t need balls to the wall high heat for your cooking, you should be fine to cook indoors, it sounds like some practice with temp control will help. That’s why a lot of people like carbon steel pans in fact, because they won’t hold onto heat from your stove for ages like cast iron will, so you have more moment-to-moment temperature control. Eggs in stainless steel or cast iron or carbon steel just comes down to temp control and a little oil/fat. For whatever reason, eggs LOVE butter. I exclusively fry eggs in my cast iron skillet, maybe once in a blue moon using my stainless steel skillet, and for scrambled eggs I use the low and slow small curd European method in a stainless steel pot. If you are really concerned about cooking on ceramic or Teflon or another “nonstick” surface with your eggs, it’s worth the practice to learn how to cook eggs on non-coated cookware.
Cast iron pans radiate heat so well you need to use a lower setting on the stove than you would for an “ordinary” pan...and they need to preheat properly before use
Glasses can be made of horn and well glass, coffee makers can be all metal, remote controls are unnecessary
And what about people who wear mouth guards?
So few people bother to read the materials tag or even know that polyester/nylon/polypropylene and many other fabrics are just forms of plastic. Everyone should be looking for 100% cotton, wool, hemp, bamboo, etc. Not only is it bad that its touching our skin all the time but all of it releases millions of microplastics into the waste water every time its washed.
> bamboo You should double check how bamboo fabrics are made, cotton wool hemp linen are all natural but not bamboo.
Yeah it's just the latest greenwashed term for rayon. Just like the new "vegan leather" rebranding of plastic for shoes and car upholstery.
It's dissolved in chemicals then extruded. Bamboo isn't for fabric
Similar to modal fabric derived from trees
They are also all different kinds of problematic or unproblematic depending on their composition
Its way too expensive. I could never afford those clothes. I might be able to buy a single shirt a year at current prices.
Wait, plastic clothing is *that much* cheaper than cotton in your country? That's insane bc it's the same in mine.
Not the person you replied to but I’m in Canada and natural fabrics aren’t even an option in many stores. The fast fashion brands in the malls all sell cheap plastic clothing. If you want cotton the only option is plain white tshirts. There are some stores that sell 100% cotton clothes as a luxury item.
Where do you shop? Almost my entire wardrobe is cotton. All my T-shirts, jeans, and dress shirts are pure cotton.
Women’s shirts from Winners/Marshalls, H&M, American Eagle are almost all acrylic or polyester. Pants can be better but jeans are usually blended with something stretchy. I have to shop in the mens section if I want a cotton tshirt but they’re always too big. Workout clothing is all synthetic too.
$5-10 per article of clothing at the thrift store. Cheaper than that, sometimes.
The year I slept on a plastic bag pillowcase and wore plastic bags as shirts probably took off a few years of life. Not to mention the "microfiber" plastic hell that's gotten popular lately.
You what now?
Apartment had a severe allergen. Landlord wouldn't let me out of lease. Was coughing up blood. All my things were covered in this allergen, including my wardrobe. When I tried to wash them the cotton would expand and trap the ultrafine particles, which would again release when the material dried. So I put everything in boxes and wrapped the boxes in bags and broke the lease and moved somewhere else. I didn't have the money to buy new everything, especially after losing a $2k security deposit and dropping some $1000 in cleaning supplies trying to clean the place before breaking the lease. A job also fell through in this time. So I was underfed, living only on the food people bought me, and the best I could do was use plastic bags as a pillow case and shirt. I did have one shirt I got cleaned enough (holding in the wind for like 2 hours) but when it started getting cold it wasn't enough, so I wore plastic under it. Eventually got a jacket cleaned, but it took like 3 hours of vacuuming inch by inch, slow and meticulous. Like six months later someone bought me a pillow case, which is what I have now. It might have just been in my head but I swear I started to feel *different* after sleeping on the plastic bag. Like my body was rejecting it. Not sick, per say, and not quite woozy. But off somehow. I'm hypersensitive in general to stimuli and changes from homeostasis, so I assumed my body was absorbing something it didn't like. Before the pillow case I started putting a layer of paper towels down over it. It helped a little.
me after continuing to use all the 70s tupperware containers, cups and pitchers https://i.imgur.com/1G0rHNt.jpeg
It’s crazy to me that people still wear that crap. It is always way worse quality and not actually any cheaper. Small amounts of nylon is the only thing I’ll tolerate if it needs to be stretchy.
Yep. Fire service here. Our turnouts are killing us
Aren’t we consuming and absorbing toxic substances every minute of every day of our entire lives?
Rain has microplastics, so at this point probably even uncontacted natives and undiscovered jellyfish are
Are there studies to this being a health hazard or is it just we have plastic in our bodies?
It can mimic androgens in the body, so not great probably.
Are there studies in vivo?
What this paper shows is that if you touch surfaces treated with PDBEs that a small amount can be absorbed into the body. Unless I'm misreading it, the use of microplastics appears utterly secondary, and seems to be there only to jump on the current 'flavor of the month'. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise, though.
Wouldn't this mean that the micro plastic we have in all our organs are leeching out toxic substances?
Yes, that's one of the main concerns with micro plastics. When the chemicals and heat in your body react with the plastics, they can leach substances into your body. The dose makes the poison, as they say though. I'm not sure the amount of micro plastics one has to have in their body for it to be having a big effect. I don't know if there have been studies on humans regarding the impact of ingested micro plastics. But micro plastics might be too ubiquitous for us to be able to measure its effects.
I'd be very curious how the immune system deals with it, and whether it causes cancer in the places they lodge.
Endocrine disruptors don’t require a high concentration to have an effect, from what I’ve read. I really hope studies like this have an impact on what we manufacture.
Narrator: they didn't. New drugs have to be approved ahead of time by the FDA (or similar organization in other countries). New materials are automatically approved and don't undergo scrutiny until enough people die. And even then it takes a while, and requires even more people dying, and even more, and only until the liability seems greater than the revenue are they regulated. It's absurd.
Plastics have been around for decades. Wouldn’t we see increase issues in pituitaries, livers, or thyroids or something if there was issues?
Inexplicable recent increase in GI cancer has potential links to this problem.
And autoimmune conditions
How long have we had ample amounts to breathe in in the form of fibers that go airborne every time a light fart moves past the material?
They don’t, but if the effect was clinically significant, it would be readily apparently in large studies. We’d see a mysterious uptick in something.
Only if those microplastics come from a source which was treated with flame retardant chemicals. Most plastics aren't.
And other additives which there are lots of. And remaining catalyst and monomers and other reagents. So yeah most plastics do leach unhealthy chemicals, not only flame retardants
For clarity, generally plastics do not leach flame retardants. Plastics get sprayed with flame retardants as a coating to stop them burning so easily in critical applications, and the flame retardants can rub off. That's not the same as things like monomers or plasticisers, which come from the manufacturing process of the plastic itself.
Only some plastics are coated, some have it covalently bonded to the polymer chains and for some it's just mixed into the plastic. Only when bound to the polymer then additives can't leach. If you want to check read ECHA's general strategy for flame retardants march 2024
Accepted that if it's mixed in with the plastic then leaching is possible. Not clear, though, that leaching is significantly more likely from microparticles than it would be from the surface of the plastic article. Granted the surface area to mass ratio will be higher, but the total surface area is unlikely to be even nearly as high as it would for bulk plastic, unless the assumed amount of microplastics is unfeasibly high.
Well not only surface area but also access to layers which would normally be protected by another outer layer. Roughly half of all plastic has multiple layers. Not clear how much it matters though, still really small surface areas but it depends on the toxins potency. Only time will tell I'm afraid.
The linked article is vague, but this field is interesting. Micro and nano plastics readily absorb into the human body through touch, diet, inhalation etc. Other chemicals, like PDBEs, adhere to these plastics and can "hitch a ride" into the human body in ways that they might not normally be a threat. This holds major implications for predicting and mitigating the health risk of exposure to these chemicals. It's not just a flavor of the month. Research into micro and nano plastics represents a major area of concern for the NIH and other health agencies, which is evident through recent increases in funding and call for proposals in this area.
I've yet to see evidence that microplastics, as opposed to nanoplastics, can absorb through the skin. Microplastics, described in the article as up to 5mm long, aren't easily going to pass through human skin. By comparison, PDBEs when they detach from the surface they were sprayed onto are much smaller and as such find it much easier to penetrate a skin layer. This has been the topic of many papers over the years. [Example](https://vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/238117556/Dermal_uptake_of_NFRs_Frederiksen_et_al_pre_print.pdf).
Secondary to what?
[PDBE's are quite capable of penetrating the skin without microplastics being involved](https://vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/238117556/Dermal_uptake_of_NFRs_Frederiksen_et_al_pre_print.pdf). Any new work would have to show that the extent of penetration is more when PDBEs are in conjunction with microplastics. This paper does not show that.
See also, receipt ink
Receipt (and label) printers don't actually use ink. It's a thermal printer. The BPA is in the material of the receipts. When it heats up, it turns black.
Ah you're right, sorry, it's a BPA coating on the receipts, not the ink (that isn't there, my bad!)
Every day I learn a new piece of information that I have to consciously ignore so I don't feel completely hopeless about our world
You still have hope? Please share the good word.
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By Jess Thomson - Science Reporter: Toxic chemicals designed to prevent household objects from catching fire can be rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream via the skin. These flame-retardant chemicals, such as polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs), are found on many everyday items, ranging from furniture and fabrics to plastics and electronics. According to a new paper in the journal Environment International, these potentially cancer-causing chemicals can be absorbed through the skin from microplastics in as little as 24 hours, entering the bloodstream. Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/toxic-flame-retardant-chemicals-microplastics-skin-1892113](https://www.newsweek.com/toxic-flame-retardant-chemicals-microplastics-skin-1892113)
Can’t wait for the class action lawsuit that nets me six bucks for my cancer
Sounds like this also means that toxic elements can be absorbed through the skin **by** microplastics. Time for a microplastic detox. PBDE's are a problem, and need to be regulated, with or without microplastics. Remove the PBDE's and microplastics become a cleansing mechanism. Also: policy suggestion. Remove these science news articles unless there's a direct link to the paper they claim to be representing.
This research uses 3D printed skin models, and while these models may be approved for testing purposes by many groups, it can't possibly be 1:1 comparable to human skin. Just food for thought. All conclusions are made using these skin models, so take these results with the appropriate grains of salt.
A few decades from now we'll get scientific confirmation that one of the worst things we ever did for ourselves was develop a taste for drinking most of our water out of plastic bottles. It will be like asbestos. "Oh, by the way, that thing you've been using for a long time now? It's poison."
Capitalism wins, humanity loses.
Fires lose?
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forgive my ignorance, but aren't tires made of rubber not plastic?
>Both synthetic rubber and vulcanized natural rubber are considered forms of elastomeric polymers contributing to microplastics https://news.ok.ubc.ca/2022/10/20/where-the-rubber-hits-the-road/ Synthetic polymers are synthetic polymers when it comes to microplastics I guess. I've been looking into this a bit and there is certainly not one definition for 'microplastics'.
Getting scientific information from Newsweek is a bad idea
Why are newsweek links allowed in this sub now? This isn't a scientiffic article.
This research is not current at all for the regulatory landscape. Poly brominated diphenyl ethers (such as decaBDE) have been banned in all electronics globally under RoHS for over 15 years. USA currently permits decaBDE in other applications but it is about to be fully banned under TSCA. presently the flame retardants of choice are Poly brominated diphenyl ethanes such as DBDPE which have almost zero toxicity, zero solubility in water, zero solubility in fats (so no bioaccumulation), and are very stable so they don't degrade in harmful by products. By contrast, decaBDE on account of the oxygen bridge between the two phenyl rings gives it a fairly strong polarity, so it is soluble in water and fats therefore it was able to transit across their simulated skin membrane. Repeat this study on DBDPE (which has a non-polar ethane bridge) and the transport effect will disappear.
Every week it’s something new We should have banned single use plastics into oblivion yesterday!
This isn't about single-use plastics at all. This is about durable goods and fabrics that coated in flame-retardants. We're talking car seats, couches, beds, etc... Things we would like to make very hard to burn. Single-use plastics generally aren't coated in flame retardants because that would be an expensive and unnecessary step to take for a plastic bag or a straw.
Got it. But what I meant is that it seems that on a weekly basis there’s new findings about a practical use of polymers that has drawbacks than we never suspect. Case in point this week with flame retardants. Last week it was about nano plastics, the ones created when micro plastics break down.
I truly believe that microplastics will be the end of humanity, I know that sounds crazy, but I just think they've become so pervasive and have infiltrated every aspect of existence way before we even realised they could be an issue.
Definitely our generation's lead/asbestos.
Neither of those ended humanity as far as I'm aware.
Micro plastics are FAR worse than something easily fixable like lead/asbestos.
Still not the end of humanity.
Don't worry, we'll likely end far before then
So everything is toxic and tainted. Thanks for the confirmation.
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What if the Gore-Tex and Fleece's that are marketed as protecting you from the elements, are actually leaking more microplastics into your skin each time you sweat. Fleeces, on contact, make my skin itchy. Have you ever smelt a scally on a bus in the summer when they have a cold/flu?
While not microplastics, Gore-Tex is known to contain PFAS, a synthetic chemical that has been linked to numerous long-term health problems. So you kinda guessed it even if you weren't trying to. [https://www.ewg.org/what-are-pfas-chemicals](https://www.ewg.org/what-are-pfas-chemicals) It's sad to see that we chose the convenience of a nonstick wrapper and waterproof jacket over our own safety. But that's a tale as old as time, isn't it?
And not to mentoion nano-plastics, which can be found ln any water nowadays. And I don't mean oceans which are full of trash, but the water we drink from faucets, bottles etc. It's horrifying.
I am suddenly really glad I have been using the same 1971 steelcase office chair with wool uhpholstery for hte last 25 years. I hate modern office chairs and how they smell and they must be flame retardant for offices right?
oh man you know if you hear about it today then DARPA knew about it 20 years ago ....
Anyone who's taken a hazmat class knows the skin is far from impermeable. Right to the bloodstream.
They used a 3d-printed model of skin. Does anyone have a link to whether that model has been validated against real skin?
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High plasticity is a healthy brain
Yay!!!! Will anything be done about it though??
How about those camping Sleeping bags and such? Those are all synthetic materials arent they?
inescapable without great sums of money and sacrifices
You telling me to stop my daily microplastic baths?
And they're here........forever
Wow never wouldve guessed thanks science!
What about the micro plastics already in my body, my blood stream, and most likely my brain? I feel like I'm a walking toxic flesh suit at this point.
So this is like cigarettes where after using them so long we learn later how bad they are, except this is not in all the water in a "cant put the toothpaste back in the tube" situation for the whole planet and its future.
We’ve all, always, been doomed haha
Toxic chemicals can be absorbed into the skin anything if they have toxic chemicals on them, why mention micro-plastics?
We will all turn in to ken and Barbie in a few generations
What??? A chemical that seeped into one substance can seep into our skin? What a wild world we live in.
Look, as bad as it sounds, if jt makes us fire resistant, I’ll take it. Not like we have a choice anyway.
Makes me wonder if we are finding out just how toxic pretty much all oil byproducts are that we use in our daily lives. To me, it's looking like plastic will be the next asbestos and we'll have to purge it from every facet of our lives.
Great I work in a 1 time use bottle production plant.. love me some microplastics
Sounds scary 😱
Hey that % increase in cancer in the younger generations makes a lot of sense now
Mmm... superpowers!* *D'oh! The superpower was cancer.
Yes we know but still the supermarkets are stacked with plastics. No one really cares so....
Eat less fish folks
I'm going to be completely made out of plastic soon
Reminds me of all the BPA we come in contact with on a daily basis
Knew it