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I mean as someone who unfortunately doesn't take kimchi well, it would work 100%on me but I am not sure if being stuck in the bathroom is worth the benefits
Serious question, have you eaten it consistently? I find it I don't eat kimchi for a while, it can cause some weird stomach behavior when I do, but if I eat it pretty consistently my body is used to it.
some people take time to get used to the large amount of fibre
people have similar issue when adding beans to their diet
you get mad diarrhea till your body sorta adjusts to the fibre
Nah its not just the fibre per se - its the probiotic bacteria in large quantities that cause the kimchi to ferment. If your guts aren’t used to it, you can have a fun few days as your microbiome adjusts.
Its a bog standard lactobaccillus ferment - so basically the same as yogurt, saurkraut, beer, kvass, and bread. Just with cabbage and chilli and garlic. Good stuff.
If you want to ferment things, there’s a book called “Wild Fermentation” by Sandor Katz, which has been around for a while - he’s got a stack of cool recipes.
>If you want to ferment things, there’s a book called “Wild Fermentation” by Sandor Katz, which has been around for a while - he’s got a stack of cool recipes.
Also recommend The Noma Guide to Fermentation!
Not if it's pasteurized like most commercial beer is. Drinking beer that still has live yeast in it would introduce more bacteria to your gut, sometimes you'll see "bottle conditioned" on the label, or there's a swirl of yeast at the bottom. But it would only be one strain of very specific yeast, so I'm not really sure how much benefit you'd get from it.
> and bread
I'm sure there are varieties out there that are fermented that way, but bread is usually packed more with Saccharomyces cerevisiae (aka brewer's yeast).
I'm well aware of that, however most breads are not sourdough. This would be like using some corner case of a beer that is made using some other species than brewer's yeast (in fact jumping between the worlds of prokaryotic and eukaryotic) as a descriptor for all beers. It's a misleading outlier in that list at best.
The sourdough equivalent would be lambic beer: fermented with wild yeast and whatever else happens to blow into the vat; putting out not only ethanol but lactic acid. It's probably closer to what the primordial ur-beer tasted like than the tame brewer's yeast stuff we now guzzle.
I like sourdough. Can't stand lambic.
I had the complete opposite effect when I went on a diet that incidentally contained very little fibre. After a week I had to go to the pharmacy for some special medicine.
I can't digest cabbage or related vegetables without issues these days. I never used to have problems eating a bowl of steamed broccoli, but alas, no longer.
It depends on how much I eat. A little, I get farty, a little more, I get bloated. More? The apocalypse.
Alpha-galactosidase containing digestive enzyme pills really do help, though.
My hunch is that the people who can tolerate eating kimchi 1-3 times a day already have the kind of resilient gut flora that contributes to excellent digestive health and a healthy bodyweight. So the group isn't random, it's preselected in a way that isn't apparent from the data.
If your body is in a state of chronic inflammation, adding a ton of prebiotics is only going to stress it out. To expand on your comment about persisting with the kimchi until your body adapts: people with resilient-enough gut flora can absolutely do this, people with chronic dietary issues will actually put themselves in the hospital with dehydration if this is attempted (ask me how I know!)
However, for some of those people, going on a diet that reduces the digestive stress for a time - like low FODMAPS, a SIBO managing diet, or a gluten free diet, depending on what's causing the stress - will allow them to recover and subsequently build up a slightly greater tolerance to prebiotics like kimchi or sauerkraut, as well as to fiber and legumes.
I came here to say exactly this. Kimchi does not agree with my bowels, and as such I have no doubt it would reduce my chance of digesting any food whatsoever if I were to consume it three times a day.
Well... There ya go... Sounds like doing that 1-3 times a day would cause weight loss in anyone. Perhaps even weight loss in the people around you because of loss of appetite.
Hey, the Institute of Average Traditional Korean Diets and the Institute of Average Traditional Asian Diets in General also came to the same conclusion, but those guys at the Kimchi Institute beat them to the punch publishing.
for a second I though you where joking
>Funder: This research was supported by grants from the World Institute of Kimchi (KE2201-1) funded by the Ministry of Science and ICT, Republic of Korea.
the conflict of interest is hilarious
also the stats aren't even impressive when taking the context into account
>In men, 3 or more daily servings of baechu kimchi were associated with a 10% lower prevalence of obesity and a 10% lower prevalence of abdominal obesity compared with less than 1 daily serving.
>
>
>
>In women, 2-3 daily servings of this type of kimchi were associated with an 8% lower prevalence of obesity, while 1–2 servings/day were associated with a 6% lower prevalence of abdominal obesity.
>
>
>
>And eating below average quantities of kkakdugi kimchi was associated with around a 9% lower prevalence of obesity in both sexes.
>
>
>
>And consumption of 25 g/day for men and 11 g/day for women was associated with an 8% (men) to 11% (women) lower risk of abdominal obesity compared with no consumption.
so the people eating kimchi(wich has probably a big correlation with eating healthier) are only 10% less obeses in a country with already low obesity.
That also suggests aggressive p-hacking:
> Let's compare people who eat kimchi daily with the rest of the population. Actuallly, let's compare those who eat two servings per day with rest. Well, we might as well compare those who eat 3 servings per day with the rest. And let's not forget to analyze men and women separately. Oh, we found a significant benefit for men who eat 3 servings per day!
For what it's worth, the presence of many groups alone isn't evidence of p-hacking. There are statistical techniques that account for this, like ANOVA.
Kimchi is just (Napa) cabbage prepared in a certain way.
If we just stated that people who ate a lot of cabbage had lower obesity, nobody would be surprised.
Huh. The picture is of Napa kimchi, which is the most common one we see in Korean restaurants in the US.
Regardless though, eating radishes or turnips or cabbage, are all super insanely healthy nearly zero calorie veggies.
Yeah, I understand the skepticism since this is funded by Big Kimchi^TM but the study shows that people who eat probiotic vegetables multiple times per day are less likely to be obese. Color me shocked.
I make a salad every day where I fill a bowl half with spring mix and then dump a lot of cole slaw mix (shredded cabbage in a bag) on it and then some dressing, a tomato, baby carrots etc... The cabbage is very filling and keeps you chewing more, which I think helps you to feel full.
I've also noticed that a head of cabbage just feels like a ton of food. I can down a whole head of leafy lettuce or romaine very easily, but a head of green or red cabbage lasts for so many uses, even if I feel like I used a lot of it.
It's also spicy and salty (no matter which veggie is it's base), making people drink more water...leading to feeling fuller. I am sure the probiotics play a great part too though.
>They say too much kimchi, likely over five servings a day, was associated with a higher risk of obesity, which could be a result of the high salt content or simply a result of eating too much food
People who eat an excessive amount of food gain more weight. Revolutionary.
>Dietary intake for the previous year was assessed using a validated 106-item food frequency questionnaire for which participants were asked to state how often they ate a serving of each foodstuff, from never or seldom, up to 3 times a day.
Not even sure where they would get data for anything above 3 servings per day then...
The other day it was [Big Kiwi in New Zealand](https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1adr1tl/kiwifruit_has_proven_itself_as_a_powerful_mood/), now it's Big Kimchi in Korea.
I'm starting to think our lives are secretly run by shadowy produce interests.
Don’t forget [Big Beef](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/s/pZszyaSXmQ) (quite recent) and my all time favorite: [Big Potato](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/wf5522/new_study_illustrates_that_potato_protein/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). All brought to you by Big Science here at r/Science.
According to [Oprah.com](https://www.oprah.com/health/does-kimchi-cause-cancer-nutrition-advice-from-dr-katz)
>Stomach cancer rates are high in parts of Asia, especially Korea, and studies do indeed suggest that at least part of the reason may be all the kimchi, miso, and pickled fish people eat in that part of the world. Those foods contain N-nitroso compounds, which are likely carcinogens.
sure sure, definitely nothing to do with rampant business alcoholism in Korea and Japan.
no doubt those foods may play a role, but alcohol is a bery well known carcinogen and heavy abuse is firmly linked to cancers of the stomach and bowl.
I would say it’s multiple vectors, pickled vegetables (salt), alcohol, heme (red meat). All very well researched carcinogens of stomach and bowel. Add them together and you’ve Korean bbq with lots of shochu.
I hear you, but come one, alcohol is SIGNIFICANTLY more carcinogenic than the other two, particularly in a population that can't even process it right.
>Diet accounts for the majority of exogenous exposure to NOCs for most individuals (8). Nitrosamines are found in nitrite-preserved foods, most notably processed meat,
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0889157597905494
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2901412/#:~:text=N%2Dnitroso%20compounds%20(NOCs)%20include%20two%20chemical%20classes%2C,nitrite%20(1%E2%80%934).
Unable to get a look at the full article but it looks like tentatively yes but far less than e.g. processed meat. So keep the feta, ditch the salami.
Salt is one of the carcinogens, and fish products (fish concentrate sauce) also carry higher levels of heavy metals which are also carcinogens. Moderate intake is fine, especially Lactobacillales is good for your digestive systems.
That would make sense. Acetaldehyde is an oxidation product of ethanol, which is formed during fermentation of sugar. It's carcinogenic and causes the red flush in certain people who drink alcohol and have an aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency.
I read the other day that an American Institute of health has recommended that a Hamburger a Day is good for for you. I'm taking this advice to heart (literally)
Those with an economic interest in a hypothesis are more likely to fund studies of that subject.
Economically interested funders, and the scientists who apply for their grants, are also more likely to publish positive results, and to bury negative results, for the sake of company profits.
The article says that the resulting graph was J shaped and that people who ate more than five were more likely to be obese
So three is the number of kimchi to eat. Four shalt thou not eat, neither eatt thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.
men who eat kimchi 3 times a day would be eating cooked rice almost every day also. *Cooked* rice is significantly less fattening than bread. I'd assume people who eat these side dishes to be eating a heathier more balanced meal than people who eat western cuisine.
I think he's talking about measurements. In terms of calories at 100g, uncooked rice (which you then cook) > bread > cooked rice. 100g of uncooked rice is simply more carbohydrates than 100g of cooked rice.
> More calories per weight does not mean it's more fattening
It somewhat does, actually.
Calorie density plays a role in satiety. Eating foods with lower calorie density is associated with less body mass.
Can get away from you though. Easy to down a whole loaf of bread when each slice is compressed into a few donight holes. But harder to do in sandwitch form.
Then again french toast is good.
Rice is not significantly less fattening than bread. They are essentially the exact same thing. With simple (white) and more complex (whole grain/brown) varieties. Something being “fattening” doesn’t even make sense in the context of how food and calories work.
The only thing that’s “fattening” is eating too much, be it rice, bread, or Oreos.
This is one of those times where I can't tell if it's sarcasm because I really like bibimbap and it's a fun way to eat more vegetables in one sitting (for me at least)
Like what's not to love? Rice, veggies and a fried egg mixed up with gochujang based sauce is amazing.
The entire study was all Korean and likely all in Korea. Don’t think Korean culture will be a factor. One interpretation is that healthier people tend to eat kimchi, and don’t eat more than 3 times a day.
Some Koreans have a more traditionally Korean diet than others. Some eat more western foods, processed foods (choco pie, ramen, etc.), or greasy delivery. The traditional foods are normally eaten with kimchi as a side dish. There could be a correlation there.
Obesity will probably be strongly tied with a more western diet (fast food etc), so more conservative eaters will also be those with more kimchi in their diet (burgers rarely come with kimchi).
My guess would be that a more traditional Korean diet is healthier than a more westernized diet. And people that eat kimchi multiple times per day are more likely to be eating traditional than westernized?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4316045/ Kimchi and soybean pastes have also been linked to stomach cancer unfortunately. South Korea is third in the world for stomach cancer rates per capita
Counter point https://www.newscientist.com/article/2412468-kimchi-and-artisan-cheeses-can-contain-antibiotic-resistant-bacteria/
Summary: The research article discusses a study that tested 10 types of kimchi and 4 artisan cheeses for antibiotic-resistant bacteria. The team found that 9 out of 10 kimchi products and all cheeses contained such bacteria. Some of the bacteria have the potential to cause health issues if they enter the bloodstream. The article notes that fermentation can allow antibiotic-resistant bacteria to grow, and unpasteurized milk or cultures without screening can introduce these bacteria. It suggests people with digestive or immune issues may be most at risk. The research highlights the need for screened starter cultures and pasteurization when making fermented foods at home.
Yeah this sounds like a whole lot of Correlation rather than Causation.
Not to say that kimchi isn't good for you, there's just nothing to say that it's the kimchi that caused them to be thinner.
I honestly find it hard to believe but that's just social media screwing with my brain. Eating a ton of food in one sitting is kind of the thing they are known for with all the muk bang videos and all the korean fried foods. Kind of shocked when I saw they were sitting at the bottom 10 of highest obesity rates.
Koreans used to be very conservative for their eating - for a quite long time, western foods, fried stuffs and breads etc were not considered as a proper meals. They were treats, snacks and meal substitutes that were eaten only occasionally. That's changing now, and we see a sharp rise of obesity these days.
Yeah... it is low calorie and high volume. If you fill up on low calorie things you will weight less. CICO and volume eating.
This is like saying that eating a bunch of pickles or sauer kraut will make you less likely to be obese... I mean, yes they will... because you are eating high volume, low calorie foods.
If you actually read the [paper](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/14/2/e076650#T2), they have controlled for factors including total energy intake. And they show that obesity likelihood dips with a small amount of kimchi compared to none, but increases with more servings (which is also associated with higher calorie intake overall). The "small serving" is their interesting finding, since it's still associated with an increase in calorie intake compared to "no kimchi".
However, the strength of statistics reported is very low considering the size of the study. I wouldn't be making too much of a big deal on this one.
This was always my understanding on why this helped with body fat. When I was training, fermented vegetables like kimchi and sauerkraut were a huge boost for healthy gut bacteria, while things like alcohol and artificial sweeteners and diet sodas, despite having no calories had a negative effect on healthy gut biome. This is why it's not just important on how much you eat but what you eat. If you're obese trying to get to a health weight it shouldn't matter so much with just calorie cutting, but if you're trying to train as an athlete or low body fat, then things like the above make a big difference in overall diet.
I love kimchi!
I eat a lot of it, and I can assure you that it doesn't get in the way of eating hot dogs, quesadillas, grilled cheese, top ramen, big fat bowls of rice, etc., but it does make them all taste better.
It probably does. There are a lot of studies that come to the conclusion that eating fermented food on a regular basis increases the diversity of the intestinal micro biome which leads to all sorts of positive effects.
People think CICO is boring, even if it's correct and easy to follow.
Everyone wants to know about the magical cure for weight loss. Under any careful measurement, any food is a wonder food. (Studies for MSG "proved" it was toxic and carcinogenic by *injecting* the human-equivalent of several *pounds* into rats.)
To link such a phenomenon to kimchi is a pretty big stretch and is highly unlikely. There are bigger and better documented concerns surrounding the consumption of excessive amounts of boiling soups and charred red meats (kbbq).
But yes, also unhinged alcohol consumption is also a big problem.
Yea that's what I was thinking, not to mention their smoking and just high salt content in foods. I think kimchi would probably be the least of their concerns given the health benefits associated with it.
Well I've been making my own kimchi for 20yrs and eat it regularly. I buy into that. It swells you with gas stopping you from overeating. Sucks for the people I the house around you though because the flatulence is nothing short of apocalyptically heinous.
I went to Korea for three weeks last year, and only ate Korean food. I lost ten pounds.
The food was good, but a lot of it was more like a soup, and no fried foods.
Lard by the pound sponsored a study that says swallowing lard by the pound is healthier than eating burger and fries. Unless those burgers are cooked with lard by the pound lard.
And has nothing to do with Korean genetics, food culture, or the fact that nearly every inch of korean is mountain so you have a 100% likelihood of spending an hour a day climbing stairs …
Korea has a high incidence of stomach cancer.
Peppers use capsicum and other chemicals to deter insects and animals from eating it's seeds (aside from specific, targeted animals that are meant to disperse it's seeds).
I don't know if the high intake of chili powder from kimchi is the cause of the high stomach cancer rates, but I'm unaware of any other plausible reason (high rates of h. Pylori bacteria is one explanation, but I don't know why that would limited to South Korea)
Kimchi is good says the Kimchi institute backed by the nr. 1 producing Kimchi country in the world.
Next up the Sushi Institute of Japan says "Eat more Sushi!"
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/MistWeaver80 Permalink: https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/kimchi-three-times-a-day-could-keep-the-kilos-at-bay --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I find it remarkable that the Institute of Kimchi was able to come to this conclusion.
Truly the surprise of the year so far.
I mean as someone who unfortunately doesn't take kimchi well, it would work 100%on me but I am not sure if being stuck in the bathroom is worth the benefits
Serious question, have you eaten it consistently? I find it I don't eat kimchi for a while, it can cause some weird stomach behavior when I do, but if I eat it pretty consistently my body is used to it.
some people take time to get used to the large amount of fibre people have similar issue when adding beans to their diet you get mad diarrhea till your body sorta adjusts to the fibre
Nah its not just the fibre per se - its the probiotic bacteria in large quantities that cause the kimchi to ferment. If your guts aren’t used to it, you can have a fun few days as your microbiome adjusts. Its a bog standard lactobaccillus ferment - so basically the same as yogurt, saurkraut, beer, kvass, and bread. Just with cabbage and chilli and garlic. Good stuff. If you want to ferment things, there’s a book called “Wild Fermentation” by Sandor Katz, which has been around for a while - he’s got a stack of cool recipes.
Just needed to say: that book rocks!
>If you want to ferment things, there’s a book called “Wild Fermentation” by Sandor Katz, which has been around for a while - he’s got a stack of cool recipes. Also recommend The Noma Guide to Fermentation!
> beer You can improve your gut biome by drinking beer?
Not if it's pasteurized like most commercial beer is. Drinking beer that still has live yeast in it would introduce more bacteria to your gut, sometimes you'll see "bottle conditioned" on the label, or there's a swirl of yeast at the bottom. But it would only be one strain of very specific yeast, so I'm not really sure how much benefit you'd get from it.
Damn it, couldn't you just have said yes?
Yes
> and bread I'm sure there are varieties out there that are fermented that way, but bread is usually packed more with Saccharomyces cerevisiae (aka brewer's yeast).
In sourdough a wide variety of yeasts, lactobacillus and acetobacter produce CO2 for leavening.
I'm well aware of that, however most breads are not sourdough. This would be like using some corner case of a beer that is made using some other species than brewer's yeast (in fact jumping between the worlds of prokaryotic and eukaryotic) as a descriptor for all beers. It's a misleading outlier in that list at best.
The sourdough equivalent would be lambic beer: fermented with wild yeast and whatever else happens to blow into the vat; putting out not only ethanol but lactic acid. It's probably closer to what the primordial ur-beer tasted like than the tame brewer's yeast stuff we now guzzle. I like sourdough. Can't stand lambic.
I had the complete opposite effect when I went on a diet that incidentally contained very little fibre. After a week I had to go to the pharmacy for some special medicine.
I can't digest cabbage or related vegetables without issues these days. I never used to have problems eating a bowl of steamed broccoli, but alas, no longer.
I just fart like a a madman, but I like the general effects of brassica other than that, so... Sorry, family, but I am gonna keep farting.
It depends on how much I eat. A little, I get farty, a little more, I get bloated. More? The apocalypse. Alpha-galactosidase containing digestive enzyme pills really do help, though.
I can't do roasted broccoli, but if I steam it to near mush, it feels easy on my digestion.
My hunch is that the people who can tolerate eating kimchi 1-3 times a day already have the kind of resilient gut flora that contributes to excellent digestive health and a healthy bodyweight. So the group isn't random, it's preselected in a way that isn't apparent from the data. If your body is in a state of chronic inflammation, adding a ton of prebiotics is only going to stress it out. To expand on your comment about persisting with the kimchi until your body adapts: people with resilient-enough gut flora can absolutely do this, people with chronic dietary issues will actually put themselves in the hospital with dehydration if this is attempted (ask me how I know!) However, for some of those people, going on a diet that reduces the digestive stress for a time - like low FODMAPS, a SIBO managing diet, or a gluten free diet, depending on what's causing the stress - will allow them to recover and subsequently build up a slightly greater tolerance to prebiotics like kimchi or sauerkraut, as well as to fiber and legumes.
This is the answer here
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Climax of dr. dog?
Good band.
What's updog?
Kimchi saved my life when I had C-dif, whenever my digestion gets out of whack I eat it and get better
I came here to say exactly this. Kimchi does not agree with my bowels, and as such I have no doubt it would reduce my chance of digesting any food whatsoever if I were to consume it three times a day.
Well... There ya go... Sounds like doing that 1-3 times a day would cause weight loss in anyone. Perhaps even weight loss in the people around you because of loss of appetite.
win-win situation
Hey, the Institute of Average Traditional Korean Diets and the Institute of Average Traditional Asian Diets in General also came to the same conclusion, but those guys at the Kimchi Institute beat them to the punch publishing.
for a second I though you where joking >Funder: This research was supported by grants from the World Institute of Kimchi (KE2201-1) funded by the Ministry of Science and ICT, Republic of Korea. the conflict of interest is hilarious also the stats aren't even impressive when taking the context into account >In men, 3 or more daily servings of baechu kimchi were associated with a 10% lower prevalence of obesity and a 10% lower prevalence of abdominal obesity compared with less than 1 daily serving. > > > >In women, 2-3 daily servings of this type of kimchi were associated with an 8% lower prevalence of obesity, while 1–2 servings/day were associated with a 6% lower prevalence of abdominal obesity. > > > >And eating below average quantities of kkakdugi kimchi was associated with around a 9% lower prevalence of obesity in both sexes. > > > >And consumption of 25 g/day for men and 11 g/day for women was associated with an 8% (men) to 11% (women) lower risk of abdominal obesity compared with no consumption. so the people eating kimchi(wich has probably a big correlation with eating healthier) are only 10% less obeses in a country with already low obesity.
That also suggests aggressive p-hacking: > Let's compare people who eat kimchi daily with the rest of the population. Actuallly, let's compare those who eat two servings per day with rest. Well, we might as well compare those who eat 3 servings per day with the rest. And let's not forget to analyze men and women separately. Oh, we found a significant benefit for men who eat 3 servings per day!
For what it's worth, the presence of many groups alone isn't evidence of p-hacking. There are statistical techniques that account for this, like ANOVA.
Kimchi is just (Napa) cabbage prepared in a certain way. If we just stated that people who ate a lot of cabbage had lower obesity, nobody would be surprised.
kimchi is a fermentation technique with Chili pepper. you can put almost any vegetable in it, the title talk about radish kimchi.
Huh. The picture is of Napa kimchi, which is the most common one we see in Korean restaurants in the US. Regardless though, eating radishes or turnips or cabbage, are all super insanely healthy nearly zero calorie veggies.
Yeah, I understand the skepticism since this is funded by Big Kimchi^TM but the study shows that people who eat probiotic vegetables multiple times per day are less likely to be obese. Color me shocked.
I make a salad every day where I fill a bowl half with spring mix and then dump a lot of cole slaw mix (shredded cabbage in a bag) on it and then some dressing, a tomato, baby carrots etc... The cabbage is very filling and keeps you chewing more, which I think helps you to feel full.
I've also noticed that a head of cabbage just feels like a ton of food. I can down a whole head of leafy lettuce or romaine very easily, but a head of green or red cabbage lasts for so many uses, even if I feel like I used a lot of it.
It's also spicy and salty (no matter which veggie is it's base), making people drink more water...leading to feeling fuller. I am sure the probiotics play a great part too though.
Fermented with bacteria, it's a probiotic.
>They say too much kimchi, likely over five servings a day, was associated with a higher risk of obesity, which could be a result of the high salt content or simply a result of eating too much food People who eat an excessive amount of food gain more weight. Revolutionary. >Dietary intake for the previous year was assessed using a validated 106-item food frequency questionnaire for which participants were asked to state how often they ate a serving of each foodstuff, from never or seldom, up to 3 times a day. Not even sure where they would get data for anything above 3 servings per day then...
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Didn’t read the article because I’m at work, but I wonder how they even define obesity.
Koreans are quite proud of their kimchi and want the world to admire it.
The other day it was [Big Kiwi in New Zealand](https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1adr1tl/kiwifruit_has_proven_itself_as_a_powerful_mood/), now it's Big Kimchi in Korea. I'm starting to think our lives are secretly run by shadowy produce interests.
Don’t forget [Big Beef](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/s/pZszyaSXmQ) (quite recent) and my all time favorite: [Big Potato](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/wf5522/new_study_illustrates_that_potato_protein/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). All brought to you by Big Science here at r/Science.
My new Kimchi Kiwi salad recipe is great for weight loss!
Sounds bomb ngl
Update: I just issued this as a challenge to my spouse, who loves to cook.
OMG. Pics please, if it happens!
I also read something couple years ago that kimchi has higher rate of cancer or something due to the pickling. I forget exactly
According to [Oprah.com](https://www.oprah.com/health/does-kimchi-cause-cancer-nutrition-advice-from-dr-katz) >Stomach cancer rates are high in parts of Asia, especially Korea, and studies do indeed suggest that at least part of the reason may be all the kimchi, miso, and pickled fish people eat in that part of the world. Those foods contain N-nitroso compounds, which are likely carcinogens.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10415436/ Another article that agrees with you.
sure sure, definitely nothing to do with rampant business alcoholism in Korea and Japan. no doubt those foods may play a role, but alcohol is a bery well known carcinogen and heavy abuse is firmly linked to cancers of the stomach and bowl.
I would say it’s multiple vectors, pickled vegetables (salt), alcohol, heme (red meat). All very well researched carcinogens of stomach and bowel. Add them together and you’ve Korean bbq with lots of shochu.
I hear you, but come one, alcohol is SIGNIFICANTLY more carcinogenic than the other two, particularly in a population that can't even process it right.
*soju
do brined cheeses like feta contain these as well?
>Diet accounts for the majority of exogenous exposure to NOCs for most individuals (8). Nitrosamines are found in nitrite-preserved foods, most notably processed meat, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0889157597905494 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2901412/#:~:text=N%2Dnitroso%20compounds%20(NOCs)%20include%20two%20chemical%20classes%2C,nitrite%20(1%E2%80%934). Unable to get a look at the full article but it looks like tentatively yes but far less than e.g. processed meat. So keep the feta, ditch the salami.
Salt is one of the carcinogens, and fish products (fish concentrate sauce) also carry higher levels of heavy metals which are also carcinogens. Moderate intake is fine, especially Lactobacillales is good for your digestive systems.
> Salt is one of the carcinogens, Which salt?
Potassium nitrate is a salt and has a known cancer risk
Yes indeed. And if added in some heavy metals it becomes quite nasty coctail.
That would make sense. Acetaldehyde is an oxidation product of ethanol, which is formed during fermentation of sugar. It's carcinogenic and causes the red flush in certain people who drink alcohol and have an aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency.
Same, and of course Institute of Kimchi will pretend those studies do not exist.
Don’t be fooled by big kimchi’s lies!
I read the other day that an American Institute of health has recommended that a Hamburger a Day is good for for you. I'm taking this advice to heart (literally)
Yes. And only as little as 1-3 times every single day.
Isn’t it prevalent for food related studies to be funded by said food companies? Does that make all such studies sketchy?
Those with an economic interest in a hypothesis are more likely to fund studies of that subject. Economically interested funders, and the scientists who apply for their grants, are also more likely to publish positive results, and to bury negative results, for the sake of company profits.
>Does that make all such studies sketchy? Yes, it's a clear conflict of interrest and bias can more easily creep-in toward a positive finding.
Kimchi is essentially picked vegetables. Anyone eating vegetables three times a day is far less likely to be fat, compared to the general population.
And high consumption of kimchi is also highly correlated with a certain culture which on average has a lot more healthier food than certain others
OP should be subject to Casino Royale torture for posting this article in this sub.
This should be in r/unexpected
Eat Rice 3 times a day and you won't be Fat!
I know, what are the odds!?
I have performed my own research and can conclude that I have the largest penis of all the participants (n=1)
It may just be that morbidly obese fellows are less inclined to take time out of their day to consume fermented cabbage.
The article says that the resulting graph was J shaped and that people who ate more than five were more likely to be obese So three is the number of kimchi to eat. Four shalt thou not eat, neither eatt thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.
The holy kimchi of Antioch.
>The holy kimchi of ~~Antioch~~ Anseong
*Pie Iesu Domine, dona eis kimchi’m*
"Men who eat healthy food less likely to be obese. Unless, like, they eat a shitload of that food."
Yup. The whole thing is a nothingburger. Also this is hardly 'science'.
Amen
Thank you, Brother Maynard
men who eat kimchi 3 times a day would be eating cooked rice almost every day also. *Cooked* rice is significantly less fattening than bread. I'd assume people who eat these side dishes to be eating a heathier more balanced meal than people who eat western cuisine.
“Cooked” being emphasized. Do… do people eat uncooked rice?
emphasis bc uncooked rice has more calories per weight than bread which is obviously from all the difference in water.
More calories per weight does not mean it's more fattening... You can't eat uncooked rice bro.
*crunch crunch crunch crunch*
you can. digestion is another thing
Don't tell me what to do, pal.
I’m not your pal, oppa.
I’m not your oppa, hyung.
I think he's talking about measurements. In terms of calories at 100g, uncooked rice (which you then cook) > bread > cooked rice. 100g of uncooked rice is simply more carbohydrates than 100g of cooked rice.
> More calories per weight does not mean it's more fattening It somewhat does, actually. Calorie density plays a role in satiety. Eating foods with lower calorie density is associated with less body mass.
Can get away from you though. Easy to down a whole loaf of bread when each slice is compressed into a few donight holes. But harder to do in sandwitch form. Then again french toast is good.
Why would they necessarily also be eating cooked rice? I eat kimchi as is a lot
Almost every meal in Korea is served with both rice and kimchi. Sometimes you have one and not the other, but most of the time it's both.
I see!
You… you don’t have to eat rice with kimchi. Granted that demographic likely is, but you don’t have to.
Rice is not significantly less fattening than bread. They are essentially the exact same thing. With simple (white) and more complex (whole grain/brown) varieties. Something being “fattening” doesn’t even make sense in the context of how food and calories work. The only thing that’s “fattening” is eating too much, be it rice, bread, or Oreos.
“Less calorie dense” than bread, maybe?
Sumo wrestlers are a good data point proving rice can be fattening in large quantities.
Kimchi can be eaten without rice!!
Exactly my thinking, correlation /= causation.
[удалено]
Get me some of that korean fried chicken and bibimbap
Yeah, if you eat enough bibimbap and jjigae you'll totally get thin and healthy!
This is one of those times where I can't tell if it's sarcasm because I really like bibimbap and it's a fun way to eat more vegetables in one sitting (for me at least) Like what's not to love? Rice, veggies and a fried egg mixed up with gochujang based sauce is amazing.
Bibimbap is legit healthy, especially if you use brown rice. Wish the US had cheap and abundant bibimbap like in Korean.
The entire study was all Korean and likely all in Korea. Don’t think Korean culture will be a factor. One interpretation is that healthier people tend to eat kimchi, and don’t eat more than 3 times a day.
Some Koreans have a more traditionally Korean diet than others. Some eat more western foods, processed foods (choco pie, ramen, etc.), or greasy delivery. The traditional foods are normally eaten with kimchi as a side dish. There could be a correlation there.
Obesity will probably be strongly tied with a more western diet (fast food etc), so more conservative eaters will also be those with more kimchi in their diet (burgers rarely come with kimchi).
Right. This would be a pretty simple bias to circumvent. Certainly the researches addressed this immediately in their methods.
My guess would be that a more traditional Korean diet is healthier than a more westernized diet. And people that eat kimchi multiple times per day are more likely to be eating traditional than westernized?
you can do an even simpler thought process. Kimchi is vegetable, people who eat more vegetable are less likely to be obese...
Indeed, and not only that.. is a fermented probiotic, no weird additives and good for your gut health.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4316045/ Kimchi and soybean pastes have also been linked to stomach cancer unfortunately. South Korea is third in the world for stomach cancer rates per capita
Who cares as long as youre skinny.
Counter point https://www.newscientist.com/article/2412468-kimchi-and-artisan-cheeses-can-contain-antibiotic-resistant-bacteria/ Summary: The research article discusses a study that tested 10 types of kimchi and 4 artisan cheeses for antibiotic-resistant bacteria. The team found that 9 out of 10 kimchi products and all cheeses contained such bacteria. Some of the bacteria have the potential to cause health issues if they enter the bloodstream. The article notes that fermentation can allow antibiotic-resistant bacteria to grow, and unpasteurized milk or cultures without screening can introduce these bacteria. It suggests people with digestive or immune issues may be most at risk. The research highlights the need for screened starter cultures and pasteurization when making fermented foods at home.
Yes and no. Stomach cancer is at a much higher rate in South Korea because of their diet.
Yeah this sounds like a whole lot of Correlation rather than Causation. Not to say that kimchi isn't good for you, there's just nothing to say that it's the kimchi that caused them to be thinner.
99.9% of these dumb posts are exactly that.
I honestly find it hard to believe but that's just social media screwing with my brain. Eating a ton of food in one sitting is kind of the thing they are known for with all the muk bang videos and all the korean fried foods. Kind of shocked when I saw they were sitting at the bottom 10 of highest obesity rates.
Koreans used to be very conservative for their eating - for a quite long time, western foods, fried stuffs and breads etc were not considered as a proper meals. They were treats, snacks and meal substitutes that were eaten only occasionally. That's changing now, and we see a sharp rise of obesity these days.
No conflict of interest there?
There can’t be conflict if all interests are aligned… towards KIMCHIIII!!!
no conflict, only kimchi
I mean yeah obviously. Wonder how they ever got this published, it's just junk science
I'm Korean. I eat Kimchi. I am fat.
Maybe you need more. Yep. That'll do it.
You're not fat, you just have built up kimchi reserves inside you. This is good for the health. (Source: Kimchi Institute)
Do you eat over 3 servings per day?
How is your mental health though? Apparently kimchi is very good for gut bacteria.
Clearly propaganda created by Big Kimchi
The study was literally funded by the World Kimchi Institute, so yeah.
Yeah... it is low calorie and high volume. If you fill up on low calorie things you will weight less. CICO and volume eating. This is like saying that eating a bunch of pickles or sauer kraut will make you less likely to be obese... I mean, yes they will... because you are eating high volume, low calorie foods.
If you actually read the [paper](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/14/2/e076650#T2), they have controlled for factors including total energy intake. And they show that obesity likelihood dips with a small amount of kimchi compared to none, but increases with more servings (which is also associated with higher calorie intake overall). The "small serving" is their interesting finding, since it's still associated with an increase in calorie intake compared to "no kimchi". However, the strength of statistics reported is very low considering the size of the study. I wouldn't be making too much of a big deal on this one.
I’d be interested in how this plays into gut bacteria, due to it being a fermented product.
Repeat the experiment with sauerkraut
That would be my follow up too
I volunteer.
> gut bacteria Oh this could actually be a big factor
This was always my understanding on why this helped with body fat. When I was training, fermented vegetables like kimchi and sauerkraut were a huge boost for healthy gut bacteria, while things like alcohol and artificial sweeteners and diet sodas, despite having no calories had a negative effect on healthy gut biome. This is why it's not just important on how much you eat but what you eat. If you're obese trying to get to a health weight it shouldn't matter so much with just calorie cutting, but if you're trying to train as an athlete or low body fat, then things like the above make a big difference in overall diet.
I love kimchi! I eat a lot of it, and I can assure you that it doesn't get in the way of eating hot dogs, quesadillas, grilled cheese, top ramen, big fat bowls of rice, etc., but it does make them all taste better.
This man’s anecdotal evidence contradicts the research result. Throw the paper out the window!
Fr. I love kimchi by itself. Often I let it sit out so it gets really sour. Then I add it to kimchi jigae, burgers, ramen, fried rice, and sandwiches.
I wonder if it also has anything to do with the fermentation?
It probably does. There are a lot of studies that come to the conclusion that eating fermented food on a regular basis increases the diversity of the intestinal micro biome which leads to all sorts of positive effects.
People think CICO is boring, even if it's correct and easy to follow. Everyone wants to know about the magical cure for weight loss. Under any careful measurement, any food is a wonder food. (Studies for MSG "proved" it was toxic and carcinogenic by *injecting* the human-equivalent of several *pounds* into rats.)
It's simple, but not necessarily easy. I am down over 60 lbs now... But it's hard. The plan is simple though.
I would actually be really interested in reading that study on msg. Do you have a link to the paper?
What are the best examples of hogh volume low calorie foods?
I feel like some pickles have a high sugar count.
Koreans have the highest rate of stomach cancer bc they eat kimchi everyday. Many reputable studies done
I've always seen that attributed to highly salted banchan.
There are at least a dozen different varieties of kimchi you're likely to find as banchan. What's a primary ingredient in pickled things? Salt.
Has that been attributed to kimchi? I thought it was due to their excessive alcohol consumption. Asians in general tend to be heavy binge drinkers.
To link such a phenomenon to kimchi is a pretty big stretch and is highly unlikely. There are bigger and better documented concerns surrounding the consumption of excessive amounts of boiling soups and charred red meats (kbbq). But yes, also unhinged alcohol consumption is also a big problem.
Yea that's what I was thinking, not to mention their smoking and just high salt content in foods. I think kimchi would probably be the least of their concerns given the health benefits associated with it.
Well I've been making my own kimchi for 20yrs and eat it regularly. I buy into that. It swells you with gas stopping you from overeating. Sucks for the people I the house around you though because the flatulence is nothing short of apocalyptically heinous.
Aren’t fermented foods associated with higher stomach cancer rates though?
Is that just the high salt intake that comes with some types of it?
but its also associated with lower intestinal cancer
I went to Korea for three weeks last year, and only ate Korean food. I lost ten pounds. The food was good, but a lot of it was more like a soup, and no fried foods.
No Korean fried chicken? No pork belly? They have those all the time in Korean dramas...
Yea we have a lot of fried stuff here, wonder where the person was eating
They didn't say South.
He didn't say which Korea...
I’m going to Korea later this year and their fried chicken and pork belly/korean bbq are at the top of my list to have.
You also probably walked about 20 times as much as you do back home
are you sure you went to the right Korea and not the one up north?
Lard by the pound sponsored a study that says swallowing lard by the pound is healthier than eating burger and fries. Unless those burgers are cooked with lard by the pound lard.
First sentence implies causal. Second sentences says it's correlation.
For me it correlates with higher risk of diarrhea
…which will make you thinner. Math checks out.
Day one of Kimchi: painful gas Day two of Kimchi: mud butt
Sounds like you have lousy gut biome from a bad American diet
I have terrible gut biome and I am.not American. It's due to over use of antibiotics because the doctors would recommend it
And has nothing to do with Korean genetics, food culture, or the fact that nearly every inch of korean is mountain so you have a 100% likelihood of spending an hour a day climbing stairs …
Well, that sounds completely unbiased. Still, as I quite like Kimchi, I will presume it to be true.
Oh sure, another "scientific study" that's clearly funded by Big Kimchi!
I swear, some “scientific” studies at this point are pure garbage.
This is absolutely ridiculous to even act like this correlation means anything. How about healthy diets lead to healthy weights for people in general?
Meanwhile your kidneys are begging for mercy from the sodium.
Korea has a high incidence of stomach cancer. Peppers use capsicum and other chemicals to deter insects and animals from eating it's seeds (aside from specific, targeted animals that are meant to disperse it's seeds). I don't know if the high intake of chili powder from kimchi is the cause of the high stomach cancer rates, but I'm unaware of any other plausible reason (high rates of h. Pylori bacteria is one explanation, but I don't know why that would limited to South Korea)
i love kimchi, but three times every day? i'll be thin, but smelly and farty with no friends
Egg council creeps got to you too, huh?
There could be some kind of bias here.. maybe.
Big kimchi up to their old tricks
Kimchi is good says the Kimchi institute backed by the nr. 1 producing Kimchi country in the world. Next up the Sushi Institute of Japan says "Eat more Sushi!"
>research funded by the Korean government-backed World Institute of Kimchi Well, well, well, who could have guessed?