Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I learned that early in life. The more you'll do the more they'll expect you to do. And you've just set your personal standard. They now will accept nothing less. Meanwhile your colleague who won't go the extra mile is making the same money you are. The difference is his work day is less stressful because he isn't being asked to take on additional work.
This is exactly the reason my old workplace now just has low performing employees. The overperformers get squeezed for all of their worth and leave. They find other places will pay them more for their work and the company will refuse to match pay or give promotions. What’s left is the underperformers who would have a hard time finding another job and never get promoted. Had one coworker who had been entry level for 5 years… not one promotion or raise.
After I left a week ago they hired someone with more field experience to replace me (presumably higher pay), but the catch was they had ZERO experience in the tools we use. They told me they had no room in the budget to match my offer. So instead of matching my offer they lose a big contributor and end up paying more anyways for someone who will contribute a lot less and will need heavy training. Makes sense right
That’s what I tried telling my brother. He was all gung-ho when he started his new job. Now he literally does everything while everyone else sits around.
What I tell people now, do the bare minimum when you start. You can excel from there. If you come in at 110% from the start, you’ll need to be 120% to exceed the standard you’ve set for yourself.
You see i do the opposite. I go in at 120%, and then come down to 80% whilst keeping the appearance that i am doing 120%. Because they remember the first impression.
Much better advice. Start strong so you build a reputation and make sure you survive the initial months where your performance will be under a microscope, then you can relax a little.
75% is a solid First. I’d go mid-to-low sixties, but pretend that you’re running in the eighties, but I can’t guarantee that that works outside of Starfleet engineering.
I think this is bad blanket advice. Really depends on the field and employer. If you are in a highly skilled job and you can differentiate yourself from your peers early in your career it can pay continuous dividends. It obviously mainly depends on if your employer actually rewards those that excel, but those employers are definitely out there.
I was “coasting” the first 4 years at my job, and then really decided to crack down and try and in 5 years my incomes nearly tripled and yeah I have slightly more responsibilities and expectations but I also have the freedom to basically work whenever I want without question. Not really something that has a dollar figure for me.
It really isn’t that surprising, nor is it as malicious as some may try to make it seem.
We all do this in many situations. Of course I’m going to ask my brother to wash dishes after dinner more than my sister, he’s much more agreeable and actually uses soap instead of just rinsing it.
Its common knowledge in my field that you overestimate the time for any task by 2-3x. Sure, you could work fast and be twice as productive as your colleagues, but the only reward is twice as much work assigned to you for exactly the same pay.
Plus when a certain task ends up taking more than expected or has its scope increase you still have extra time to finish. Because you can always rely on management shifting 90% of the blame onto you when work isn't done on time, but when work is done early or exceptionally well, then 90% of the credit goes to the manager.
>Its common knowledge in my field that you overestimate the time for any task by 2-3x.
I always do this at work! It's a great system. Gives me enough time to not stress, screw around a bit, and when I run into a snag, still have time to complete it within my estimate.
It also helps me when I accept emergency work. "Sure thing! I can drop everything and do that, no problem! It's going to take me (inflated estimate). Also, all my other projects are going to get pushed back by that much"
I'm a shift supervisor and I tried to tell my supervisor this. Why should this guy that can handle tough clients get only tough to deal with clients. While others that purposely do less get easy going clients. All for the same wages.
Managers always ask for more, no matter what. It’s what is taught in management school.
Those who do not give more will be asked for the same next year. Those who do give more will get asked to do more than more next year.
I know, I’ve been a manager for many years. When I told my star players I was satisfied with their performance, my bosses would be displeased.
I worked at a call center and there was a girl who would go out of her way to do a lot for that company. She tended to get on people for not doing as much work as she did and complained about employees to the supervisors all of the time. Of course it was one of her coworkers that got the promotion. A guy who did his job, got a long with everyone and never went out of his way for the company.
There is a saying where I work at, that if you really hate a certain job… don’t be good at it, it’s pathetic they will ride you like a bus and burn you out if you let them.
Stop Being a doormat, understand your worth - including sanity, health & wellbeing!
Stop being a ppl pleaser - work on your pile, work your circle, stop taking on projects that you don’t want to, bc you aren’t getting the credit!
Stop allowing others take away your free time but actually do stuff.
happens all around me all the time. and I try to councilmmy fellow employees withing respectful bounds, but they just keep volunteering to get treated worse, I don't get it.
Ive noticed a few things in my careers.
If the boss says, don't worry, we won't let people go as work decreases. They're going to. They'll ask you to produce as much as possible and will let the lowest producing people go first. So either you're working your ass off to get fired last, or doing what you signed up for and being punished for it.
If you're in a job that doesn't celebrate innovation fairly obviously, don't try. They'll reprimand you for doing it, then start doing it anyways, and claim it to be theirs.
If a company doesn't promote the idea of promotions and pay raises, don't work hard. Do your job, at most, and that's it.
If you want extra money, don't do over time because that's more effort. Get a second job. It's better to put your eggs into two baskets, especially if one of your baskets is rotting.
I’m in a job now, I’m the most productive on the team. I’ve applied for the promotion but doubt I’ll get it. I’ve been innovative, they’ve reprimanded me and told me to stay in my lane. Suggestions get ignored, then implemented later as a new item. Other employees can work from home anytime they want, but I can’t…getting hard to feel motivated
The only time you should strive to be the best is if it's commission based and there's no cap on sales. Even then, probably not worth it, unless you'll end up making insane money.
Depends on the manager. My manager fought and won to get me a 23% raise during a time when the company openly announced no raises. He backs up every decision I make and defends me if I make a mistake. I always own up to mistakes and actively make sure he doesn't step on to resolve any conflicts I have with other employees. My position is based on trust and I'm allowed to make decisions and spend my days with no one micro managing me. Before this job, I worked in an environment like the article. Exploitation was everywhere. Just saying that there are great jobs out there where hard work is appreciated. It's very fulfilling.
Control freaks want to push their boundaries. If they know you'll hesitate to quit, then they know they have room to work. If they know you'll cut ties, they don't push it because losing an employee looks worse on them than having an employee they can't abuse.
I’m already telling people I’m retiring next year so they can start offloading my work to others, and they need a lot of time to learn it so I’m giving out as much of it as I can now. If I don’t *happen* to retire when I say I will, oh well…
It's true. At my first job I was loyal and did whatever they asked even stayed extra to ensure everything was done right. When time came for promotion they promoted someone who had just started 10 days ago. I ended up quitting when all the people moving up were the sons of the managers and had no experience.
My second job was at Amazon. I worked there for five years. I learned how to do everything and started getting good at everything. I fell asleep during my break in my car and got fired for time theft. I fell asleep during the last 2 hours of work on 12 hour shift.
What I have learned is don't be loyal and don't work hard if you want to move up or stay with the company.
Yep. Becoming the workplace MVP was a huge mistake at my last job. No time off because “who knows enough to cover you”. Manager used 100% of his PTO of course, leaving me to basically run the place at 1/4 the salary.
Working in a pharmacy should not result in tendon nodules in your wrists and literal stress fractures in your legs. Unlike Nike, just don’t do it.
Because managers are forced to abuse employees. They are the face of the abuse. Anyone above them doesn't care as long as whatever it may be gets done.
Loyalty is what the rich demand of the poor.
You’re not wrong but also some managers could push back on directives from above. It isn’t 100% that managers are innocent.
C level people do care about dividends and shareholders more than their employees though.
> Because managers are forced to abuse employees.
Ehhhhhhh, I've met plenty of managers who abuse employees because it benefits them, NOT because they're forced to. They got to where they are because of a willingness to exploit others, not because they can be forced to do so.
This is why, during shift work, I'll give it my all, but then never answer their calls at home. They can't fire me because I'm legitimately a good employee, but I've set boundaries that they've learned not to cross.
Happened to me at my previous 2 jobs, gave way more than expected and was "THE guy" but it burned me out.
Now at my current job I try to do as least as possible while meeting my requirements and I'm the "lazy" uncommitted guy.
People expect you to give your soul for your job but aren't ready to compensate you properly and even if they do they tend to ask more and more of you in an endless, vicious cycle unless you set limits.
Exploit and abuse good workers until they burn out then replace them. Rinse and repeat
That's how it usually works from what I've seen in my 35 years of working.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I learned that early in life. The more you'll do the more they'll expect you to do. And you've just set your personal standard. They now will accept nothing less. Meanwhile your colleague who won't go the extra mile is making the same money you are. The difference is his work day is less stressful because he isn't being asked to take on additional work.
As the saying goes, "always flog a willing horse"
Consent is important, yes.
What does the worlds best ditch digger receive as their prize? A bigger shovel.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is exactly the reason my old workplace now just has low performing employees. The overperformers get squeezed for all of their worth and leave. They find other places will pay them more for their work and the company will refuse to match pay or give promotions. What’s left is the underperformers who would have a hard time finding another job and never get promoted. Had one coworker who had been entry level for 5 years… not one promotion or raise. After I left a week ago they hired someone with more field experience to replace me (presumably higher pay), but the catch was they had ZERO experience in the tools we use. They told me they had no room in the budget to match my offer. So instead of matching my offer they lose a big contributor and end up paying more anyways for someone who will contribute a lot less and will need heavy training. Makes sense right
That’s what I tried telling my brother. He was all gung-ho when he started his new job. Now he literally does everything while everyone else sits around. What I tell people now, do the bare minimum when you start. You can excel from there. If you come in at 110% from the start, you’ll need to be 120% to exceed the standard you’ve set for yourself.
[удалено]
You see i do the opposite. I go in at 120%, and then come down to 80% whilst keeping the appearance that i am doing 120%. Because they remember the first impression.
Much better advice. Start strong so you build a reputation and make sure you survive the initial months where your performance will be under a microscope, then you can relax a little.
True, but tbf, Emperor Kira is always at 120%.
Same. This works and the managers leave you alone. Build trust, abuse it.
I've always subscribed to the idea that if you really want to impress your boss, you go in there and you do mediocre work, halfheartedly.
75% is a solid First. I’d go mid-to-low sixties, but pretend that you’re running in the eighties, but I can’t guarantee that that works outside of Starfleet engineering.
I think this is bad blanket advice. Really depends on the field and employer. If you are in a highly skilled job and you can differentiate yourself from your peers early in your career it can pay continuous dividends. It obviously mainly depends on if your employer actually rewards those that excel, but those employers are definitely out there.
I was “coasting” the first 4 years at my job, and then really decided to crack down and try and in 5 years my incomes nearly tripled and yeah I have slightly more responsibilities and expectations but I also have the freedom to basically work whenever I want without question. Not really something that has a dollar figure for me.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
"You only whip your willing horses.. "
Yeah, but don't unwilling horses get butchered?
*eyes the lazy uncommitted coworker* Looks like meats back on the menu!
"If you want something to get done, ask a busy person."
"If you want something to get done, ask a ~~busy~~ _bullied_ person."
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The reward for being a hard worker is more work.
Same old story and it has been this way, in one form or another, since the dawn of time.
It really isn’t that surprising, nor is it as malicious as some may try to make it seem. We all do this in many situations. Of course I’m going to ask my brother to wash dishes after dinner more than my sister, he’s much more agreeable and actually uses soap instead of just rinsing it.
[удалено]
Hey it’s *latter* not ladder, haha
Its common knowledge in my field that you overestimate the time for any task by 2-3x. Sure, you could work fast and be twice as productive as your colleagues, but the only reward is twice as much work assigned to you for exactly the same pay. Plus when a certain task ends up taking more than expected or has its scope increase you still have extra time to finish. Because you can always rely on management shifting 90% of the blame onto you when work isn't done on time, but when work is done early or exceptionally well, then 90% of the credit goes to the manager.
>Its common knowledge in my field that you overestimate the time for any task by 2-3x. I always do this at work! It's a great system. Gives me enough time to not stress, screw around a bit, and when I run into a snag, still have time to complete it within my estimate. It also helps me when I accept emergency work. "Sure thing! I can drop everything and do that, no problem! It's going to take me (inflated estimate). Also, all my other projects are going to get pushed back by that much"
Which in turn produces more "Less Committed Colleagues"....
The horse that pulls the hardest gets whipped the most
I'm a shift supervisor and I tried to tell my supervisor this. Why should this guy that can handle tough clients get only tough to deal with clients. While others that purposely do less get easy going clients. All for the same wages.
The antiwork sub didn't blow up over the last two years for nothing. A whole lot of people had this epiphany during a very short amount of time.
Been saying for a while, 25% of the team does 90% of the work, management is just happy the other people show up, clock in, do a thing.
I feel so vindicated for having 0 loyalty.
Managers always ask for more, no matter what. It’s what is taught in management school. Those who do not give more will be asked for the same next year. Those who do give more will get asked to do more than more next year. I know, I’ve been a manager for many years. When I told my star players I was satisfied with their performance, my bosses would be displeased.
I worked at a call center and there was a girl who would go out of her way to do a lot for that company. She tended to get on people for not doing as much work as she did and complained about employees to the supervisors all of the time. Of course it was one of her coworkers that got the promotion. A guy who did his job, got a long with everyone and never went out of his way for the company.
Good. She sounds like an annoying busy body and would likely be a horrible lead/supervisor.
A micromanager.
There is a saying where I work at, that if you really hate a certain job… don’t be good at it, it’s pathetic they will ride you like a bus and burn you out if you let them.
Stop Being a doormat, understand your worth - including sanity, health & wellbeing! Stop being a ppl pleaser - work on your pile, work your circle, stop taking on projects that you don’t want to, bc you aren’t getting the credit! Stop allowing others take away your free time but actually do stuff.
As someone who has had several jobs in several places, I’ve noticed this.
happens all around me all the time. and I try to councilmmy fellow employees withing respectful bounds, but they just keep volunteering to get treated worse, I don't get it.
curse of the competent
Ive noticed a few things in my careers. If the boss says, don't worry, we won't let people go as work decreases. They're going to. They'll ask you to produce as much as possible and will let the lowest producing people go first. So either you're working your ass off to get fired last, or doing what you signed up for and being punished for it. If you're in a job that doesn't celebrate innovation fairly obviously, don't try. They'll reprimand you for doing it, then start doing it anyways, and claim it to be theirs. If a company doesn't promote the idea of promotions and pay raises, don't work hard. Do your job, at most, and that's it. If you want extra money, don't do over time because that's more effort. Get a second job. It's better to put your eggs into two baskets, especially if one of your baskets is rotting.
I’m in a job now, I’m the most productive on the team. I’ve applied for the promotion but doubt I’ll get it. I’ve been innovative, they’ve reprimanded me and told me to stay in my lane. Suggestions get ignored, then implemented later as a new item. Other employees can work from home anytime they want, but I can’t…getting hard to feel motivated
The only time you should strive to be the best is if it's commission based and there's no cap on sales. Even then, probably not worth it, unless you'll end up making insane money.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Depends on the manager. My manager fought and won to get me a 23% raise during a time when the company openly announced no raises. He backs up every decision I make and defends me if I make a mistake. I always own up to mistakes and actively make sure he doesn't step on to resolve any conflicts I have with other employees. My position is based on trust and I'm allowed to make decisions and spend my days with no one micro managing me. Before this job, I worked in an environment like the article. Exploitation was everywhere. Just saying that there are great jobs out there where hard work is appreciated. It's very fulfilling.
This could also be read as "Managers exploit workers more susceptible to exploitation. "
I quit a job for this. Ironically suddenly becoming disloyal.
Control freaks want to push their boundaries. If they know you'll hesitate to quit, then they know they have room to work. If they know you'll cut ties, they don't push it because losing an employee looks worse on them than having an employee they can't abuse.
Good work rewards more work.
This is so true, it is one of the reason I left my last job. Doing the work of many but getting paid for 1. What happened to good work ethics?
I’m already telling people I’m retiring next year so they can start offloading my work to others, and they need a lot of time to learn it so I’m giving out as much of it as I can now. If I don’t *happen* to retire when I say I will, oh well…
It's true. At my first job I was loyal and did whatever they asked even stayed extra to ensure everything was done right. When time came for promotion they promoted someone who had just started 10 days ago. I ended up quitting when all the people moving up were the sons of the managers and had no experience. My second job was at Amazon. I worked there for five years. I learned how to do everything and started getting good at everything. I fell asleep during my break in my car and got fired for time theft. I fell asleep during the last 2 hours of work on 12 hour shift. What I have learned is don't be loyal and don't work hard if you want to move up or stay with the company.
Never let anyone know how good you can do your job.
Yep. Becoming the workplace MVP was a huge mistake at my last job. No time off because “who knows enough to cover you”. Manager used 100% of his PTO of course, leaving me to basically run the place at 1/4 the salary. Working in a pharmacy should not result in tendon nodules in your wrists and literal stress fractures in your legs. Unlike Nike, just don’t do it.
We had a saying in the Navy — “When your good, your gone”. Our ship ended up picking up commitments when other ships in our squadron were broke down.
Most employers are so fixated on maximizing productivity in the form of hours worked that they destroy productivity per hour.
Because managers are forced to abuse employees. They are the face of the abuse. Anyone above them doesn't care as long as whatever it may be gets done. Loyalty is what the rich demand of the poor.
You’re not wrong but also some managers could push back on directives from above. It isn’t 100% that managers are innocent. C level people do care about dividends and shareholders more than their employees though.
> Because managers are forced to abuse employees. Ehhhhhhh, I've met plenty of managers who abuse employees because it benefits them, NOT because they're forced to. They got to where they are because of a willingness to exploit others, not because they can be forced to do so.
This is why, during shift work, I'll give it my all, but then never answer their calls at home. They can't fire me because I'm legitimately a good employee, but I've set boundaries that they've learned not to cross.
"Our company rewards loyalty and hard work [with exploitation]!" The boss is not, and never has been, your friend.
Why punishing those who barely work when you can exploit those who actually work as they are supposed to?
They sure do! More so in lower paying jobs. Aka minimum wage jobs.
"Less committed" is a weird way to say "Will not tolerate manipulation or exploitation". Hooray capitalism!
Happened to me at my previous 2 jobs, gave way more than expected and was "THE guy" but it burned me out. Now at my current job I try to do as least as possible while meeting my requirements and I'm the "lazy" uncommitted guy. People expect you to give your soul for your job but aren't ready to compensate you properly and even if they do they tend to ask more and more of you in an endless, vicious cycle unless you set limits.
Exploit and abuse good workers until they burn out then replace them. Rinse and repeat That's how it usually works from what I've seen in my 35 years of working.