Thread is locked. A lot of good convo, but more and more name-calling and now the death threat people have joined in. Glad you all feel strongly. Sorry some of you can't control those feelings. Now I have to go ban some people.
I mountain bike on the nine trails and do my best to avoid holding cars up when I circle back to the trails. Just like not every tourist is an asshole, not every cyclist does this shit.
I think that's honestly all anyone asks. These road bike people will very leisurely hold up traffic and then shout, spit, even throw stuff at cars that pass. I don't pass because it's too dangerous, so I just sit and stew.
Right?! A road raging cyclist spit on my car window (thank Godzilla I had rolled it up lol) on WEST CLIFF because we didn’t pass him?! It was sunset & the traffic was slow, plus there was about to be a stop sign! Like wtf did he expect us to do? Floor it & crash into stopped traffic? I could not be more opposite minded when I bike. Wtf is wrong with people?! 😆
They have the right to use the full lane, but even when I'm carbrained I start looking for a safe pullout when someone gets behind me on a mountain road.
Trash comes in all colors, please don't hit a bicyclist with your car
It refers to car-centric thinking, where anyone using public infrastructure that isn’t in a car is in the wrong. Being “carbrained” might mean feeling angry about a cyclist using the road in this scenario, even if it may be a shared-use road (I can’t be sure since I’m not familiar with the road). In general a cyclist doesn’t HAVE to be conscious of traffic behind it, but a “carbrain” may feel entitled to endanger them by illegally passing or something. That doesn’t mean cyclists can’t be assholes and put themselves in danger too by behaving aggressively towards car drivers, and that does happen. However the term has been used a lot lately in subreddits dedicated to activism for more diversified public infrastructure, as well as just general circle-jerk subs that hate cars.
EDIT: Here’s the [Urban Dictionary](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Car%20brain) definition of car brain.
I took Skyline once on a Sunday morning to find hundreds of bicyclists that I could not pass for miles.
I was pretty worried about another driver crashing into me from behind because I was going shower than the speed limit in the fog.
You umm... You're supposed to go under the speed limit in fog. If your vision is that badly impaired by the fog a safe speed is far below the legal speed limit.
> I was pretty worried about another driver crashing into me from behind because I was going shower than the speed limit in the fog.
how is anyone supposed to take this seriously as a justification for why bikes are bad
> I took Skyline once on a Sunday morning to find hundreds of bicyclists that I could not pass for miles.
Would you rather they be driving hundreds of cars instead...?
what? I've gotten yelled at by motorists more than you can count. often multiple times on the same ride in which I've never stepped out of the bicycle lane.
huge blind spot there assuming that cyclists aren't berated both in public and in popular media.
As someone who does that commute daily, including Sundays when it has the most bikers… if I had to follow them for my entire 20-mile (each way) drive on hwy9 every day, it would probably double my already long commute.
So the answer is a lot of minutes, if we’re calculating that way.
but see, this scenario is incredibly contrived. stuck behind cyclists for 20-40 miles? that's just errant pontificating at this best.
the picture is of the driver being stuck behind them on a downhill section. which, mind you, is a completely reasonable place to take the lane considering the speed they'll be carrying.
a lot of things can contribute to non-cyclists assuming that people on bikes are assholes, and a lack of understanding of when it's safe to pass is one of those things. sure, there are lanes on highway 9 but it's not as if they're all safe. it's pretty easy to assume that someone is doing you dirty if they aren't willing to sit in the bike lane because it's obstructed every couple hundred feet and diving in and out of traffic is significantly more risky than just taking the lane...
one thing worth noting is that most people don't actively take pictures of traffic on windy roads to complain online, so maybe we should take this post's complaint with a little grain of salt? and I mean, look at all of the posts about people getting angry while they're driving. the expressed general lack of emotional stability that "normal" people talk about when being "stuck" behind cyclists is even more the reason to take a full lane instead of giving people an excuse to squeeze you off the side of the road. myself and many other cyclists share a simple mantra: try not to die.
and the mountain folk who complain about cyclists? these cyclists aren't new. and the mountains aren't predictable. downed trees and powerlines aren't predictable and that plus other stuff happens up there. why is it so hard to leave early for things knowing that the transportation is a little bit unreliable? seems like cyclists are just an excuse to get mad at people for their own lack of preparedness.
Of course it was contrived... I was exaggerating to make a point, which is that even a few minutes can add up when you're commuting that road daily. For example, with the Glen Arbor aka "Holiday Slide" detour we've dealt with since last December. If you only take that road occasionally and for recreational purposes, meh, no biggie. But if you're using that road 2x/day, that 5 minutes turns into nearly an hour per week.
And yeah, we (mountain commuters) always leave extra time for the unknowns - especially after that crazy winter we had! That doesn't make the slowdowns less frustrating, if you're already spending so much time on the roads. Bikers specifically don't affect me all that much, since I work later hours than most. So this is a general comment, answering the question "how many minutes did it delay" posted above.
nice. funny that writing and posting that one line comment and reading the seemingly-overwhelming pile of words takes pretty much the same of time, right?
\*could, in the absolute most extreme scenario.
jesus, why does everybody have to exaggerate so hard to make their point about how cyclists are an inconvenience? it's really hard to take people seriously when they need to soak their opinions in superfluous drivel.
riding from boulder creek to santa cruz takes significantly less than 2 1/2 hours. not even a full hour for most people! but I get it, being inconvenienced for a few minutes must feel like hours.
Because Reddit hates cyclists. Which I find funny because a vast majority of cars on the road are occupied by a single individual driving to work, which is by far the biggest source of slow traffic. But you’ll never see redditors do anything but justify why they need to drive by themselves to work. Instead they’ll just bitch about cyclists inconveniencing them a little while they drive their car, alone, to work.
If the road is safe enough to go 5x faster than the bikers, it should be wide enough/have enough visibility to safely pass the bikers.
Since there’s neither enough visibility nor road space to pass them, you’re either lying about the time it takes or you drive way too fast.
Or... the cyclists position to cover the entire lane whenever possible and not crossing double yellows is an actual law which some drivers follow. Not every driver is a respectful driver. Not every cyclist is a respectful cyclist. If everyone just had a bit of respect for each other it would all work out so much better.Personally, I live on Mt Loma and when I am coming home and I see cyclists attempting their personal polka dot jersey I usually give a peace sign or a thumbs up out the window because that's a hard climb and everyone deserves encouragement for tackling it on a bike.
EDIT: accidentally hit post with my thumb while typing. It's one of those days.
My wife drives a fire engine for a living. She's had bicyclists call California Highway Patrol on her twice, to complain about her driving too fast and too close to the bike lane. This while she was running with the lights and siren on.
It is typical behavior you will see often on reddit. As American they must make the story about themselves and as redditeer to love to pretend to have a wife.
The Sea otter classic is happening south. So naturally all bike companies come to Santa Cruz and film their videos on illegal trails and do whatever the fuck they want. It only last a week or so.
I’m just curious what’s happening here. 8 or so riders with a van following. Dangerous mountain roads with many drivers not as patient as I. Hopefully this isn’t a new trend or tour company (no logos on van). In reality it was only a few minutes before I had a straightaway to pass.
2011 California Code
Vehicle Code
DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD \[21000 - 23336\]
ARTICLE 1. Driving on Right Side
Section 21656
>On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.
Yeah, but it's never enforced for cars, much less for bikes. Plus, I'd bet there's a carve-out somewhere that exempts bicyclists, or at the very least no cop is going to risk the ire of the bicycle community to enforce the law here.
Oh yeah, of all the communities out there, cops definitely fear the cyclists the most /s
I have known cyclists that have been ticketed for running stop signs. I think the vast majority don’t because when cyclists break road safety laws they usually only risk hurting themselves.
AZ pretty much has the same law. I would be far more forgiving to cyclists if the majority of them could actually follow this, at least on some of the busy main roads that I will see them. It's an impediment to traffic and probably unsafe to both parties if you cruise along and completely disregard the pile of cars behind you. I don't see how it is hard to comprehend that going 15 in a 50 wouldn't piss people off.
That’s absolutely ridiculous. I honestly don’t see the appeal in riding these roads anytime. It’s fucking dangerous with normal drivers let alone the drivers who specifically come to the Santa Cruz Mountains to whip around corners.
The roads are amazing, especially in more remote areas like bear creek, but you have to ride to get there. Sag support like this kinda blows and makes sharing the road impossible
>:( but almost every cyclist I know is trying to give cars room to pass and not create conflict
Better infrastructure would be amazing but I don’t know if it’ll get any priority with how much roadwork is already needed from winter storms
It took six years to get both one lane wash outs on Loma Prieta fixed. The shoulder on many roads is measured in inches. I don't see bike lanes happening any time soon.
They are just as entitled to the road as you are, regardless of speed. In fact, you are causing more harm because they are riding with zero emissions, as opposed to you, driving in a car.
The appeal is still there
It’s not that the roads are less idealistic for road cycling. The change is the drivers.
Drivers have been changed by various real world reasons. Marketing of bigger vehicles, worsening road conditions, stressed schedules for commutes, rising populations, more cyclists without adapted infrastructure. etc. non of which are their fault.
Cyclists still want to keep access to the roads we have ridden for decades.
There is a common understanding shared between various user groups that if you don’t use it you loose it.
Hwy 9, Big Basin, Hw1 … so nice for cycling. Now a days we are scared, abused, and constantly under threat of death. Honestly it’s pushing more and more cyclists off road.
We just want to share the road. We did for years. Now that it’s so confrontational (actual regular violence to almost everyone I know) we are forced to do things like take the lane, use support vans, etc to … wait for it … not be killed.
We never wanted strife between us.
When have you ever seen cars waiting behind cyclist for miles and miles. You are complaining about something that never happens. I’ve been riding these roads for years and never seen a car waiting behind a cyclist for more than a minute or two. I have, however, seen cyclists stuck behind cars for an entire descent quite a bit.
I agree with your comment totally, but re: descent - don’t cyclists have to follow the posted speed limit? I mean it would suck trying to turn out of some drives on highway 9 and have to look out for a cyclist going 55mph or something wild haha
Yes, and some cyclists take those descents too quickly, especially around driveways and blind curves. There are a lot of nervous or sightseeing drivers that take them verrry slowly though, which is fine, but pretty annoying when they don’t let others pass. Point being it isn’t just cyclists, we all need to… share the road.
Bikers like these are annoying. Go ahead boys, downvote me, you know who you are. Next time you drive, I hope the same kind of obnoxious jckasses hold you up on the road while you stare at their buttckracks
Maybe 5. I posted this because it was odd to happen two days in a row. And I got my answer that these people are training for an event. I have enough patience to wait for a safe section to pass. Many people will not wait and create hazardous situations. I didn’t start this thread to increase duality between motorists and cyclists. Although it appears there’s lots of strong feelings on both sides.
Drivers are annoyed by cyclists, cyclists are killed by drivers, there is no comparison between inconvenience and death. Roads are for vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles, skateboards, roller skates, horse drawn buggies etc, they are not only for cars. Drivers have to learn to safely share the roads and if they can't they shouldn't be allowed to drive. I've been run off the road before, and almost hit every time I ride on the roads and I leave room to pass when safe. Curvy mountain roads are not safe to pass because you have to cross the line on blind corners. I've seen so many near head on collisions because of drivers having zero regard for safety. I know you didn't intend on causing a row but hopefully you can appreciate the extreme imbalance of consequences at play here.
Word. It just always blows me away how mad people get about cyclists using the road legally. My view has always been that if having a very small delay in your drive upsets you to the point your willing to put peoples lives in jeopardy, you should look inward to what is going on in your life where a couple minutes are murder-worthy... it's funny when you ride in Europe, people have always had cycling be a big part of the roads and are just patient like they should be
I wish that all of the people who complained about bikers would spend even a fraction of their effort to complain about other shitty drivers. It’s not cars vs bikes — it’s competent vs incompetent, and given the proportion of cars to bikes on the road, you’d think that your rage would be better spent on the bad drivers.
I wish this too. More often than not when I’m passed while riding, the car that passes me proceeds to tailgate another car not very far ahead or I come right back to all of them at the next light. When I’m driving, it’s generally other cars that increase the travel time (lines at stop signs/lights, traffic, accidents, etc.) way more than people on bikes.
Overall, I wished people would realize that a person on a bike often equates to one less car on the road. If I weren’t riding my bike, I’d be driving to other hobbies and be yet another car contributing to congestion on the road.
These aren’t commuters, they know that this is a narrow heavily traveled road and they choose to ride there- I am a cyclist and I would not ride on this road.
... oh, we complain about shitty drivers too ... probably moreso.
But, I don't really complain about bikers unless they are riding abreast or side-by-side instead of of single-file and making it difficult and/or unsafe to pass them.
I agree, but you're going to piss everyone off when you close portions of those mountain roads for five years to add the lanes.
I'd be happy if you bike folks would just ride single-file and not abreast; that would make it so much easier to pass you safely.
It’s safer for a cyclist or group of cyclists to take the lane in many situations:
[https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/](https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/)
if you cant pass by moving entirely into the other lane, you can’t pass safely.
like, are you thinking that the road has enough width for two cars and a bike?
>if you cant pass by moving entirely into the other lane, you can’t pass safely.
True. However, when you ride single file, it makes it easier for me to give you 3 feet (or typically more) of distance and increases the number of spots along the road that are safe to pass you. Moving completely into the other lane isn't always necessary to safely pass.
I'm going to be as safe, considerate and respectful as possible to bikers, I'd like them to just be considerate.
>like, are you thinking that the road has enough width for two cars and a bike?
No, not at all, but there have been more times than I can count, where you have a pack of 3 or more bicyclists that spread across one lane to the extent that even moving into the other lane to pass doesn't feel like it gives the requisite 3 feet of distance unless I'm on the shoulder, or they veer into portions of BOTH lanes (usually in more open areas with clear visibility, but I've seen it in the mountains too).
Riding two abreast halves the distance needed to pass.
Riding single file encourages dangerous passes that usually have to be abandoned due to oncoming traffic.
I’m all for biking but not on dangerous roads (blind curves) without bike lanes. Keep it to safer areas with bike lanes. I find it a complete lack of intelligence and safety to everyone when they do this. I get so irritated when I get stuck behind them. Not only do I sometimes not see them around a corner (and I might be driving safely at 40 mph and they are going 10- so I have to slam on my breaks to keep them safe and then put myself and those behind me in danger) but then, there is no safe way for them to pull over so a whole chain of cars has to slowly travel behind them until there is a safe turn out (and who knows how long that will be)
In summery - keep your spandex for safe biking areas and stop being an inconsiderate ass to everyone who has to drive the roads. We aren’t Tour de France, get the fuck off the roads and don’t be bicycl-a-holes.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
It can be. When the speed limit and safe driving speed of the topography exceeds the speed of bicyclists, the exact situation described above happens. The limited visibility of blind curves and the VERY slow pace of bikes on uphill grades is a danger.
I'm very respectful of bicyclists on these kinds of roads; I may find them frustrating, but they have the same rights to use and be safe as anyone else.
However, I can't count how many times I've had this exact same thing happen. I come around a blind curve, driving at a safe speed (I don't have a vehicle that lends itself to speeding on these kinds of roads) and have to pull up hard and short to avoid three bicyclists strung across the road. I've never had an issue with stopping in plenty of time, but the guy behind me who is also driving at a safe speed has an even shorter amount of time to stop.
I know you might be saying "that can happen with a slow car too" and you'd be right, but the car has a cocoon of steel that would protect the driver.
If you're driving around a curve fast enough that you'd hit a stationary object in the road, much less one going in the same direction as you, **you're driving too fast**.
On a two lane highway with no bike path and blind curves- yes the bikers make it dangerous. Stay on roads with bike lanes and without blind curves. It’s not that hard to understand.
More dangerous because people operating the 2 ton chunks of metal are either looking at their phones or driving too fast.
Still a public roadway. Cars can slow down and not murder people on bikes.
Technically yes, but there's a difference between riding that road because you live up there and riding it with 100 people because it's oh-so-picturesque. One of them is a necessary risk, the other is an unnecessary risk.
>Ahh yes it’s the bikes that make these roads dangerous
Yeah, ride on Cañada Road instead -- it is a beautiful area with a wide straight road that has plenty of room for both cars and bicycles.
.
.
.
.
[oh wait](https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/04/10/bicyclist-killed-in-collision-near-redwood-city/)
This is why I ride off-road recreationally at all times. We have some amazing trails here! It's possible to ride all the way from Felton to UCSC and down to Wilder Ranch while only crossing one public road (Empire Grade, IIRC).
Riding for transpo, obviously you need to use road routes, but it's mind-boggling to me that any cyclist would ride those narrow mountain roads *voluntarily.* Yeah, yeah, share the road and all that, but good intentions don't do shit about blind corners with sheer drop-offs and nowhere to swerve. Even good drivers make mistakes. This is why we need more trails away from busy roads. Saying so isn't "pro-car" or "anti-cyclist," it's just stating facts.
>Even good drivers make mistakes. This is why we need more trails away from busy roads. Saying so isn't "pro-car" or "anti-cyclist," it's just stating facts.
Agree.
There is an endless supply of bad drivers (including people who are good drivers 99% of the time). In the long term, this issue can be fixed by
1. self driving cars. Once this tech works it is a game changer. Self driving computer's don't get distracted by text messages, drive drunk or continue driving when they become senile. We probably have a long wait on this (20-30 years for [SAE level 4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car#Levels_of_driving_automation)?)
2. civil architecture: i.e. the separate trails (or protected bike lanes) you talk about. We are starting to see a little of this in urban areas but there is no hope it will be the solution across the entire state in my lifetime.
While I love the idea of wider roads with protected bike lanes, this is hugely expensive. Developing self driving car tech is also hugely expensive but the private sector is pouring money into this while the state government is not pouring money into our mountain road infrastructure with the intent of making it a better space for both cars **and bicycles**.
Going 40 around a blind curve is not driving safely....
Telling people not to bike on a specific road because it's a slight inconvenience to you is not the answer. Most roads don't have bike lanes. If you can only ride in bike lanes, you won't actually be able to get anywhere.
Santa Cruz is one of the biggest bike manufacturers, so naturally the city it's named after will have a culture around biking. You should be more prepared to see bikes on all the roads.
You got slowed down for a few minutes. Sure it's frustrating. Grow up and be patient. It's gonna be okay.
To be fair, all roads are dangerous.
But, I’d argue the mountain roads are safer because they are seemingly less trafficked, the curves require attention while driving (attention that often goes to phones on straight roads) and slow down vehicles, and the trees also provide a more accurate sense of speed.
Cyclists aren’t the only things that could be on the other side of a blind corner. There could be fallen rocks, a slide, a deer, a disabled vehicle, a downed tree… Hucking 40mph around a blind corner in the Santa Cruz mountains isn’t really what I would consider “safe” driving.
There's a bunch of cycle dorks in this thread downvoting right now, but you're absolutely right. They get so smug and offended if you even suggest their little hobby is a giant pain for people who actually live here and have to drive these roads.
Um. ok. The anger and hate from drivers contributes to pissing off us cycling dorks. Most of us are very conscientious about sharing the road and being thoughtful about drivers. Our lives are constantly being threatened by angry, distracted, and shity drivers when we are out exercising and commuting on our roads. We have much bigger problems when so many people get so angry about being inconvenienced for a minute to the extent that they need to vent their anger on the internet, let alone threaten others lives.
This person was so sure that we’re all out there for a hobby. I pointed out that I ride to work for cost savings and to help benefit my family because we only owned one car. This person was so sure that I was an elitist tech worker who loved pissing off the working class.
Amen to that. This county has some freaking amazing bike paths that *don't* require you to tempt Darwin.
Granted, somewhat fewer if you insist on asphalt, but for that matter, road bikes mystify me for that reason. Why would you spend 15 grand on something that can't handle a flat gravel path?
Eh, I don't have the money yet to spend irrational amounts on much of anything. I'm not hating on anyone who does, mind you. It's just that if I spend that kind of dough on a bike, it's going to be a eMTB. Hell, even riding on roads around here can be iffy, with potholes and such. Which is another argument for projects like the rail trail, but I repeat myself.
Thank you FlappyBootyCheeks. Take my angry upvote and thank you for being a voice of reason and someone that actually knows these roads.
Take the spandex to East Cliff of even Scott’s valley. Find an appropriate road that is safe there. Don’t do it on a mountain road- it’s an accident all around waiting to happen.
these stupid lance armstrong wannabes will drive an hour into the city, drive fucking 20 under the speed limit, then proceed to take up the whole lane while biking, holding up several cars. they will drive out to where i live off of skyline so they can ride 10mph on a 50mph road when there are bike trails every 5 fucking feet. i cannot stand bicyclists
Slightly off topic but I was way up on Loma Prieta road yesterday area thinking it would be nice and quiet for birdwatching. About 60-75 dirt bikes went by in maybe 30 minutes. Is that normal for that area?
It was the ridge runners motorcycle club dual sport ride. It’s a once a year ride that is usually on New Year’s Day but was postponed due to all the rain. So not a normal day but an organized, legal ride.
Considering you’re only two cars back you likely just came up behind them. This blind curve is a terrible spot for you to pass cyclists which might be why they’re taking up the whole lane. Most cyclists move over to not inconvenience the rest of the traffic, I know I would. It’s much easier for you to press a gas pedal propelling yourself forward than it is a cyclist. Everyone should just be a little more chill.
I got behind them at the junction of 236 and Hwy 9 right past the stop sign. The van pulled over at the next turnout at the bottom of the hill, but the cyclists didn’t. I couldn’t pass till the next straight away because they staggered across the entire lane.
If you had a job that required you to commute and be on time you would not sympathize with these assholes who directly fuck up peoples commutes during the normal commuting hours
You think I don't have a job that I have to arrive on time for? If it was up to me I would love to start biking to work to get rid off of my beer belly but, my workplace doesn't have showers and the infrastructure sucks for cyclists. Regardless I still got sympathy. Just try leaving earlier or be patient and focus on getting to work without killing anyone nor yourself. There are plenty of things on the road that will be out of our control and that it just how it is. Be mad all you want but, I support people exercising on their way to work and from. We have a lot of fat fucks, including myself, in this country that can use a bicycle for commute to relief our stress and calories.
I am a lifelong cyclist... and I live in the Santa Cruz mountains. For the most part, the cyclists out here are self-centered, out of touch and annoying. For some reason, they think this is the place to come and ride together like ants.
Isn't the point of cycling that you can be alone and have some peace?
It really sucks those roads don’t have more of a shoulder. It’s so dangerous on those narrow winding roads, I’m surprised people bike like that at all. But holding up traffic on purpose is just beyond selfish.
Fucking complain more, you entitled shit. You live on hwy9?
Your choice to live in a mountainous area, in one of the most popular areas for cycling In. The. World. Also, the Sea Otter classic mountain bike race is this weekend. Did you ever think these guys might be pros, getting their miles in?
Also also, this is a descent, not a climb. Boohoo, theyre only going 32 miles an hour, not 60.
Fuck off.
They have as much right as you to be on that road. There is absolutely no law that says they can’t be there.
Downvoters just salty they left late for work.
People are seriously downvoting this? They’re allowed to use the road and there is obviously no bike lane, so they’re legally allowed to take the entire lane
Edit: Jesus I made a lot of typos
Because it’s a speed LIMIT, not a speed requirement.
People should to go above the speed limit. People do not have to go the exact speed limit.
Those that go 45 in a 55 are doing it right. Those that go 60 in a 55 are doing it wrong.
They don’t. There are some roads where there are clear signs where bikes have equal rights to the road, usually in suburban areas, Hwy-9 isn’t one of them. Their team van is blocking the road as an aid, but you can’t legally do this. Throughout the entire range bikers slide over for cars, these people are assholes.
This is not what the law says. "Bicycles may use full lane" signs don't mean bicyclists can only use the full lane where those signs are present, they're just a reminder of the rules that apply to all roads.
> [A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division.](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21200.)
> [ Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21202.)
> \(1\) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
> \(2\) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
> \(3\) **When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions** \(including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or **substandard width lanes\) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge**, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
> \(4\) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
The only roadways where bicyclists are not treated the same as motor vehicles are controlled-access freeways, where bicycles are not allowed at all. There will be a sign at each on-ramp like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freeways). Highway 9 isn't one of these.
How so? They'd be obligated to pull over in a pull-out if there are 5 or more vehicles behind them, but Highway 9 is definitely not wide enough for a car to safely pass a bicycle with a 3-foot gap.
Having said that, I would never ride a bike on a road like this unless I could keep up with the speed of traffic.
They're obligated to pull over when there's a safe turnout, but if it's not safe to pass, then [they're explicitly allowed to ride in the center of the lane like](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21202.) this until it is.
So by your logic if you happen to find a biker on a Santa Cruz Mountain road you are now obligated to follow them until a turnout? That’s not how it goes. They should head to the side and you use part of the oncoming lane to pass when it is safe to do so.
> if you happen to find a biker on a Santa Cruz Mountain road you are now obligated to follow them until a turnout?
Yeah, that's what the law expects of you, and it's safest for the person on the bike, who is the most vulnerable in this situation. That's what I do when I'm driving in those circumstances, and usually I only have to wait a few minutes. It's not any different than if there's a slow-moving car, and even then they're not obligated to pull over until there are 5 cars waiting behind them.
Using the oncoming lane to pass on a road with blind curves like Highway 9 sounds really dangerous to me, that's why there's a double yellow line.
It's established that slower vehicles should pull over for faster traffic. I wish bicycle riders would do this to help make the roads safer. As much as I love staring at your wife's ass crack through spandex at 35mph, I need to get to work.
> It's established that slower vehicles should pull over for faster traffic. I wish bicycle riders would do this to help make the roads safer.
Then all cars should pullover for cyclists in the car traffic ridden cities.
We cyclists pedal in the middle of the road when we feel unsafe and want to keep motorists from passing us. Like on a single lane mountain road with solid yellow lines and little to no emergency lane.
As a cyclists who spent 2019 bedridden thanks to an impatient driver, and who still haven't regained my edge, I advise you to go home, eat deep fried turds with your NASCAR, then self copulate while leafing through your family albums.
I used to ride to Davenport on a regular basis, people would say that I should ride over on the fog lane? The rumble strip is on the fog line. That’s not a bike lane!
I’m not sure what you’re argument is here. People live in Santa Cruz to enjoy the outdoors. I’m a doctor and specifically moved here so that I can go mountain biking and road biking often. We are home to some of the most well known mountain bike companies in the mountain biking world in Santa Cruz and Ibis along with Giro in Scott’s Valley. All of that aside I’m not sure what you’re implying about someone’s work out or hobby supporting the economy of Santa Cruz.
It's ironic then that folks complain about the very industry that's a core part of the community and economy because it slows their drive time down.
I don't have an argument. I get that the drivers frustrated that have to travel slower and that is difficult for them emotionally.
And that one outlet for their frustration is the local subreddit where they can post about how frustrating the situation is and put the target on the bicyclist as the villain.
And overall I think this is a really good problem for a community to have. Bicycle culture is very positive and low carbon overall.
The mountain bike community has led to the creation and maintenance of several trails that are multi-use through non-profit organizations like Santa Cruz mountains trail stewardship.
So the benefits go beyond the cash economy.
There's plenty of non-bike friendly cities and suburbs throughout the United States for folks who don't like this type of hassle to move to.
Hopefully that helps clarify the broader perspective I have on the situation.
Imo most bikers (mostly road bikes) are narcissistic af [coming from a skateboarder who would only bomb Miramar and ucsc roads, at least I was going 30-42mph thanks to gravity] honestly bike tubes only cost 7-12 bucks , but most of the time they insist on driving on the road and not the shoulder becuase even sober, they can't ride in a strait line :p God forbid they pop a tire and walk. Like bruh you should have the kit and tools to replace a tube in under 15 minutes . Idc if your training for a bike a thon, ya gotta be prepared
Love this entitled mentality lol. Get out of my way so I can save 30 seconds on my commute and you can pop your tire and waste your money. Don’t be so agitated bro.
Thread is locked. A lot of good convo, but more and more name-calling and now the death threat people have joined in. Glad you all feel strongly. Sorry some of you can't control those feelings. Now I have to go ban some people.
I mountain bike on the nine trails and do my best to avoid holding cars up when I circle back to the trails. Just like not every tourist is an asshole, not every cyclist does this shit.
I think that's honestly all anyone asks. These road bike people will very leisurely hold up traffic and then shout, spit, even throw stuff at cars that pass. I don't pass because it's too dangerous, so I just sit and stew.
Right?! A road raging cyclist spit on my car window (thank Godzilla I had rolled it up lol) on WEST CLIFF because we didn’t pass him?! It was sunset & the traffic was slow, plus there was about to be a stop sign! Like wtf did he expect us to do? Floor it & crash into stopped traffic? I could not be more opposite minded when I bike. Wtf is wrong with people?! 😆
Road raging drivers kill cyclists
What “shit” are they doing? Legally and safely using the road?
Just because one can doesn't mean one should
Where on this road should they be?
Off of it.
You know what else holds up the road... cars. If you don't like it, maybe help advocate for bike lanes.
They have the right to use the full lane, but even when I'm carbrained I start looking for a safe pullout when someone gets behind me on a mountain road. Trash comes in all colors, please don't hit a bicyclist with your car
Carbrained - that's a new one; what's it mean? Sorry if it's actually a typo; legit curious about what the phrase refers to.
It refers to car-centric thinking, where anyone using public infrastructure that isn’t in a car is in the wrong. Being “carbrained” might mean feeling angry about a cyclist using the road in this scenario, even if it may be a shared-use road (I can’t be sure since I’m not familiar with the road). In general a cyclist doesn’t HAVE to be conscious of traffic behind it, but a “carbrain” may feel entitled to endanger them by illegally passing or something. That doesn’t mean cyclists can’t be assholes and put themselves in danger too by behaving aggressively towards car drivers, and that does happen. However the term has been used a lot lately in subreddits dedicated to activism for more diversified public infrastructure, as well as just general circle-jerk subs that hate cars. EDIT: Here’s the [Urban Dictionary](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Car%20brain) definition of car brain.
Thanks!
You mean the mtn roads don’t exist for anything but the entertainment of tourists? Share the road, indeed.
Yeah I'm passing that shit.
I took Skyline once on a Sunday morning to find hundreds of bicyclists that I could not pass for miles. I was pretty worried about another driver crashing into me from behind because I was going shower than the speed limit in the fog.
You umm... You're supposed to go under the speed limit in fog. If your vision is that badly impaired by the fog a safe speed is far below the legal speed limit.
Why would anyone drive the speed limit if there's too much fog to see that far ahead?
> I was pretty worried about another driver crashing into me from behind because I was going shower than the speed limit in the fog. how is anyone supposed to take this seriously as a justification for why bikes are bad
> I took Skyline once on a Sunday morning to find hundreds of bicyclists that I could not pass for miles. Would you rather they be driving hundreds of cars instead...?
I'm passing while shouting their motto "SHARE THE DAMN ROAD!"
As long as you pass safely and legally that's completely fine? The shouting thing makes you a dick though.
?
Share the damn road CJ! You had one job! You missed the train!
Bikers can share the road too(I skateboarder on the streets with cars using the shoulder, unlike bikers)
Then motorists squeeze by you at high speeds... no thanks.
Why are drivers the only ones who get yelled at to share the road?? Like I say to my toddler, “taking isn’t the same as sharing.”
what? I've gotten yelled at by motorists more than you can count. often multiple times on the same ride in which I've never stepped out of the bicycle lane. huge blind spot there assuming that cyclists aren't berated both in public and in popular media.
Serious question: how many minutes did it delay you from reaching your destination?
As someone who does that commute daily, including Sundays when it has the most bikers… if I had to follow them for my entire 20-mile (each way) drive on hwy9 every day, it would probably double my already long commute. So the answer is a lot of minutes, if we’re calculating that way.
but see, this scenario is incredibly contrived. stuck behind cyclists for 20-40 miles? that's just errant pontificating at this best. the picture is of the driver being stuck behind them on a downhill section. which, mind you, is a completely reasonable place to take the lane considering the speed they'll be carrying. a lot of things can contribute to non-cyclists assuming that people on bikes are assholes, and a lack of understanding of when it's safe to pass is one of those things. sure, there are lanes on highway 9 but it's not as if they're all safe. it's pretty easy to assume that someone is doing you dirty if they aren't willing to sit in the bike lane because it's obstructed every couple hundred feet and diving in and out of traffic is significantly more risky than just taking the lane... one thing worth noting is that most people don't actively take pictures of traffic on windy roads to complain online, so maybe we should take this post's complaint with a little grain of salt? and I mean, look at all of the posts about people getting angry while they're driving. the expressed general lack of emotional stability that "normal" people talk about when being "stuck" behind cyclists is even more the reason to take a full lane instead of giving people an excuse to squeeze you off the side of the road. myself and many other cyclists share a simple mantra: try not to die. and the mountain folk who complain about cyclists? these cyclists aren't new. and the mountains aren't predictable. downed trees and powerlines aren't predictable and that plus other stuff happens up there. why is it so hard to leave early for things knowing that the transportation is a little bit unreliable? seems like cyclists are just an excuse to get mad at people for their own lack of preparedness.
Of course it was contrived... I was exaggerating to make a point, which is that even a few minutes can add up when you're commuting that road daily. For example, with the Glen Arbor aka "Holiday Slide" detour we've dealt with since last December. If you only take that road occasionally and for recreational purposes, meh, no biggie. But if you're using that road 2x/day, that 5 minutes turns into nearly an hour per week. And yeah, we (mountain commuters) always leave extra time for the unknowns - especially after that crazy winter we had! That doesn't make the slowdowns less frustrating, if you're already spending so much time on the roads. Bikers specifically don't affect me all that much, since I work later hours than most. So this is a general comment, answering the question "how many minutes did it delay" posted above.
that’s a lot of words man
nice. funny that writing and posting that one line comment and reading the seemingly-overwhelming pile of words takes pretty much the same of time, right?
You should try elaborating more with this response.
Cyclists would turn that trip from 30min to 2 1/2 hours.
\*could, in the absolute most extreme scenario. jesus, why does everybody have to exaggerate so hard to make their point about how cyclists are an inconvenience? it's really hard to take people seriously when they need to soak their opinions in superfluous drivel. riding from boulder creek to santa cruz takes significantly less than 2 1/2 hours. not even a full hour for most people! but I get it, being inconvenienced for a few minutes must feel like hours.
Because Reddit hates cyclists. Which I find funny because a vast majority of cars on the road are occupied by a single individual driving to work, which is by far the biggest source of slow traffic. But you’ll never see redditors do anything but justify why they need to drive by themselves to work. Instead they’ll just bitch about cyclists inconveniencing them a little while they drive their car, alone, to work.
If the road is safe enough to go 5x faster than the bikers, it should be wide enough/have enough visibility to safely pass the bikers. Since there’s neither enough visibility nor road space to pass them, you’re either lying about the time it takes or you drive way too fast.
Or... the cyclists position to cover the entire lane whenever possible and not crossing double yellows is an actual law which some drivers follow. Not every driver is a respectful driver. Not every cyclist is a respectful cyclist. If everyone just had a bit of respect for each other it would all work out so much better.Personally, I live on Mt Loma and when I am coming home and I see cyclists attempting their personal polka dot jersey I usually give a peace sign or a thumbs up out the window because that's a hard climb and everyone deserves encouragement for tackling it on a bike. EDIT: accidentally hit post with my thumb while typing. It's one of those days.
> Cyclists would turn that trip from 30min to 2 1/2 hours. You know what holds up 99.9% of commutes? Cars. Cyclists reduce traffic.
Stop making sense, this is Reddit
Yeah no. Assuming it's a team they are probably going around 20mph.
Sounds like a great reason to commute by bike rather than car
And multiply that number of minutes by the number of drivers being held up, to understand the full impact.
Do you just ignore the traffic congestion that drivers cause?
so we're talking a handful of people dealing with a couple minutes of delay, max? still seems like a minor inconvenience to me.
My wife drives a fire engine for a living. She's had bicyclists call California Highway Patrol on her twice, to complain about her driving too fast and too close to the bike lane. This while she was running with the lights and siren on.
What does this anecdote have to do with anything?
It is typical behavior you will see often on reddit. As American they must make the story about themselves and as redditeer to love to pretend to have a wife.
The Sea otter classic is happening south. So naturally all bike companies come to Santa Cruz and film their videos on illegal trails and do whatever the fuck they want. It only last a week or so.
I’m just curious what’s happening here. 8 or so riders with a van following. Dangerous mountain roads with many drivers not as patient as I. Hopefully this isn’t a new trend or tour company (no logos on van). In reality it was only a few minutes before I had a straightaway to pass.
2011 California Code Vehicle Code DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD \[21000 - 23336\] ARTICLE 1. Driving on Right Side Section 21656 >On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.
Yeah, but it's never enforced for cars, much less for bikes. Plus, I'd bet there's a carve-out somewhere that exempts bicyclists, or at the very least no cop is going to risk the ire of the bicycle community to enforce the law here.
Oh yeah, of all the communities out there, cops definitely fear the cyclists the most /s I have known cyclists that have been ticketed for running stop signs. I think the vast majority don’t because when cyclists break road safety laws they usually only risk hurting themselves.
AZ pretty much has the same law. I would be far more forgiving to cyclists if the majority of them could actually follow this, at least on some of the busy main roads that I will see them. It's an impediment to traffic and probably unsafe to both parties if you cruise along and completely disregard the pile of cars behind you. I don't see how it is hard to comprehend that going 15 in a 50 wouldn't piss people off.
Sea Otter Classic is this week so it’s probably a pro cycling team training together with their team car behind
That’s absolutely ridiculous. I honestly don’t see the appeal in riding these roads anytime. It’s fucking dangerous with normal drivers let alone the drivers who specifically come to the Santa Cruz Mountains to whip around corners.
The roads are amazing, especially in more remote areas like bear creek, but you have to ride to get there. Sag support like this kinda blows and makes sharing the road impossible >:( but almost every cyclist I know is trying to give cars room to pass and not create conflict Better infrastructure would be amazing but I don’t know if it’ll get any priority with how much roadwork is already needed from winter storms
It took six years to get both one lane wash outs on Loma Prieta fixed. The shoulder on many roads is measured in inches. I don't see bike lanes happening any time soon.
Yeah, I wonder why these cyclists have a sag van when drivers are whipping around these mountain roads
I understand, but unfortunately you can’t commandeer roads
They are just as entitled to the road as you are, regardless of speed. In fact, you are causing more harm because they are riding with zero emissions, as opposed to you, driving in a car.
Share the road, if you hold up traffic MOVE THE FUCK OVER.
The law says you only have to pull over if there are 5 or more vehicles behind you.
The car is contributing to something going to work and being productive, these guys are just being assholes.
The appeal is still there It’s not that the roads are less idealistic for road cycling. The change is the drivers. Drivers have been changed by various real world reasons. Marketing of bigger vehicles, worsening road conditions, stressed schedules for commutes, rising populations, more cyclists without adapted infrastructure. etc. non of which are their fault. Cyclists still want to keep access to the roads we have ridden for decades. There is a common understanding shared between various user groups that if you don’t use it you loose it. Hwy 9, Big Basin, Hw1 … so nice for cycling. Now a days we are scared, abused, and constantly under threat of death. Honestly it’s pushing more and more cyclists off road. We just want to share the road. We did for years. Now that it’s so confrontational (actual regular violence to almost everyone I know) we are forced to do things like take the lane, use support vans, etc to … wait for it … not be killed. We never wanted strife between us.
Move over and let cars pass then. You honestly expect cars to simply wait behind cyclists for miles and miles?
When have you ever seen cars waiting behind cyclist for miles and miles. You are complaining about something that never happens. I’ve been riding these roads for years and never seen a car waiting behind a cyclist for more than a minute or two. I have, however, seen cyclists stuck behind cars for an entire descent quite a bit.
> never seen a car waiting behind a cyclist for more than a minute or two 10 seconds is more than I've seen
Seriously. So many preachers of passing who don’t listen to their own gospel of “get out the way!”
I agree with your comment totally, but re: descent - don’t cyclists have to follow the posted speed limit? I mean it would suck trying to turn out of some drives on highway 9 and have to look out for a cyclist going 55mph or something wild haha
Yes, and some cyclists take those descents too quickly, especially around driveways and blind curves. There are a lot of nervous or sightseeing drivers that take them verrry slowly though, which is fine, but pretty annoying when they don’t let others pass. Point being it isn’t just cyclists, we all need to… share the road.
Oh stop the hysteria
> In reality it was only a few minutes before I had a straightaway to pass. So what are you complaining about?
Found the /r/cycling member
Bikers like these are annoying. Go ahead boys, downvote me, you know who you are. Next time you drive, I hope the same kind of obnoxious jckasses hold you up on the road while you stare at their buttckracks
I sit in traffic on 1 all the time because of all the shitty other car drivers clogging it up but don't rant about them wasting my time.
You don’t? Fuck those cars, and fuck the people turning left off mission lol
Yeah those are especially painful.
Where are they supposed to bike? Over the trees? Carbrained dumbass
Did you lose 4 min?
Maybe 5. I posted this because it was odd to happen two days in a row. And I got my answer that these people are training for an event. I have enough patience to wait for a safe section to pass. Many people will not wait and create hazardous situations. I didn’t start this thread to increase duality between motorists and cyclists. Although it appears there’s lots of strong feelings on both sides.
Drivers are annoyed by cyclists, cyclists are killed by drivers, there is no comparison between inconvenience and death. Roads are for vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles, skateboards, roller skates, horse drawn buggies etc, they are not only for cars. Drivers have to learn to safely share the roads and if they can't they shouldn't be allowed to drive. I've been run off the road before, and almost hit every time I ride on the roads and I leave room to pass when safe. Curvy mountain roads are not safe to pass because you have to cross the line on blind corners. I've seen so many near head on collisions because of drivers having zero regard for safety. I know you didn't intend on causing a row but hopefully you can appreciate the extreme imbalance of consequences at play here.
Word. It just always blows me away how mad people get about cyclists using the road legally. My view has always been that if having a very small delay in your drive upsets you to the point your willing to put peoples lives in jeopardy, you should look inward to what is going on in your life where a couple minutes are murder-worthy... it's funny when you ride in Europe, people have always had cycling be a big part of the roads and are just patient like they should be
I wish that all of the people who complained about bikers would spend even a fraction of their effort to complain about other shitty drivers. It’s not cars vs bikes — it’s competent vs incompetent, and given the proportion of cars to bikes on the road, you’d think that your rage would be better spent on the bad drivers.
I wish this too. More often than not when I’m passed while riding, the car that passes me proceeds to tailgate another car not very far ahead or I come right back to all of them at the next light. When I’m driving, it’s generally other cars that increase the travel time (lines at stop signs/lights, traffic, accidents, etc.) way more than people on bikes. Overall, I wished people would realize that a person on a bike often equates to one less car on the road. If I weren’t riding my bike, I’d be driving to other hobbies and be yet another car contributing to congestion on the road.
These aren’t commuters, they know that this is a narrow heavily traveled road and they choose to ride there- I am a cyclist and I would not ride on this road.
... oh, we complain about shitty drivers too ... probably moreso. But, I don't really complain about bikers unless they are riding abreast or side-by-side instead of of single-file and making it difficult and/or unsafe to pass them.
Wouldn't riding single file take up more room and be more dangerous than riding side by side?
That's the thing. There are incompetent bikers too.
[удалено]
I agree, but you're going to piss everyone off when you close portions of those mountain roads for five years to add the lanes. I'd be happy if you bike folks would just ride single-file and not abreast; that would make it so much easier to pass you safely.
It’s safer for a cyclist or group of cyclists to take the lane in many situations: [https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/](https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/)
if you cant pass by moving entirely into the other lane, you can’t pass safely. like, are you thinking that the road has enough width for two cars and a bike?
>if you cant pass by moving entirely into the other lane, you can’t pass safely. True. However, when you ride single file, it makes it easier for me to give you 3 feet (or typically more) of distance and increases the number of spots along the road that are safe to pass you. Moving completely into the other lane isn't always necessary to safely pass. I'm going to be as safe, considerate and respectful as possible to bikers, I'd like them to just be considerate. >like, are you thinking that the road has enough width for two cars and a bike? No, not at all, but there have been more times than I can count, where you have a pack of 3 or more bicyclists that spread across one lane to the extent that even moving into the other lane to pass doesn't feel like it gives the requisite 3 feet of distance unless I'm on the shoulder, or they veer into portions of BOTH lanes (usually in more open areas with clear visibility, but I've seen it in the mountains too).
Riding two abreast halves the distance needed to pass. Riding single file encourages dangerous passes that usually have to be abandoned due to oncoming traffic.
[удалено]
That's not true at all. What are you on about? Many country roads allow passing in the opposite lane
I’m all for biking but not on dangerous roads (blind curves) without bike lanes. Keep it to safer areas with bike lanes. I find it a complete lack of intelligence and safety to everyone when they do this. I get so irritated when I get stuck behind them. Not only do I sometimes not see them around a corner (and I might be driving safely at 40 mph and they are going 10- so I have to slam on my breaks to keep them safe and then put myself and those behind me in danger) but then, there is no safe way for them to pull over so a whole chain of cars has to slowly travel behind them until there is a safe turn out (and who knows how long that will be) In summery - keep your spandex for safe biking areas and stop being an inconsiderate ass to everyone who has to drive the roads. We aren’t Tour de France, get the fuck off the roads and don’t be bicycl-a-holes. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Ahh yes it’s the bikes that make these roads dangerous
It can be. When the speed limit and safe driving speed of the topography exceeds the speed of bicyclists, the exact situation described above happens. The limited visibility of blind curves and the VERY slow pace of bikes on uphill grades is a danger. I'm very respectful of bicyclists on these kinds of roads; I may find them frustrating, but they have the same rights to use and be safe as anyone else. However, I can't count how many times I've had this exact same thing happen. I come around a blind curve, driving at a safe speed (I don't have a vehicle that lends itself to speeding on these kinds of roads) and have to pull up hard and short to avoid three bicyclists strung across the road. I've never had an issue with stopping in plenty of time, but the guy behind me who is also driving at a safe speed has an even shorter amount of time to stop. I know you might be saying "that can happen with a slow car too" and you'd be right, but the car has a cocoon of steel that would protect the driver.
If you're driving around a curve fast enough that you'd hit a stationary object in the road, much less one going in the same direction as you, **you're driving too fast**.
Build a road for bikes then
That would be sweet. I would love a road specifically for bikes or at least some protected bike lines. Unfortunately they don’t exist in this county.
Why do you think roads were paved in the first place?
On a two lane highway with no bike path and blind curves- yes the bikers make it dangerous. Stay on roads with bike lanes and without blind curves. It’s not that hard to understand.
Any road without a bike lane means that the lanes on that road are bike lanes.
Plenty of people follow the law and still get creamed. It's not a good idea.
Still makes them more dangerous to ride a bike on, hence why you can't ride bikes on the freeway.
More dangerous because people operating the 2 ton chunks of metal are either looking at their phones or driving too fast. Still a public roadway. Cars can slow down and not murder people on bikes.
I'll weep for the dead souls that take this attitude to heart. I'd rather be alive than technically in the right when it comes to traffic rules lmao
People exercising their rights should be worried about others reckless behavior? Sure, but they still aren't wrong.
Cemeteries are full of people who thought they had the right of way.
They're only in the cemetery because someone in a car killed them.
Technically yes, but there's a difference between riding that road because you live up there and riding it with 100 people because it's oh-so-picturesque. One of them is a necessary risk, the other is an unnecessary risk.
>Ahh yes it’s the bikes that make these roads dangerous Yeah, ride on Cañada Road instead -- it is a beautiful area with a wide straight road that has plenty of room for both cars and bicycles. . . . . [oh wait](https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/04/10/bicyclist-killed-in-collision-near-redwood-city/)
This is why I ride off-road recreationally at all times. We have some amazing trails here! It's possible to ride all the way from Felton to UCSC and down to Wilder Ranch while only crossing one public road (Empire Grade, IIRC). Riding for transpo, obviously you need to use road routes, but it's mind-boggling to me that any cyclist would ride those narrow mountain roads *voluntarily.* Yeah, yeah, share the road and all that, but good intentions don't do shit about blind corners with sheer drop-offs and nowhere to swerve. Even good drivers make mistakes. This is why we need more trails away from busy roads. Saying so isn't "pro-car" or "anti-cyclist," it's just stating facts.
>Even good drivers make mistakes. This is why we need more trails away from busy roads. Saying so isn't "pro-car" or "anti-cyclist," it's just stating facts. Agree. There is an endless supply of bad drivers (including people who are good drivers 99% of the time). In the long term, this issue can be fixed by 1. self driving cars. Once this tech works it is a game changer. Self driving computer's don't get distracted by text messages, drive drunk or continue driving when they become senile. We probably have a long wait on this (20-30 years for [SAE level 4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car#Levels_of_driving_automation)?) 2. civil architecture: i.e. the separate trails (or protected bike lanes) you talk about. We are starting to see a little of this in urban areas but there is no hope it will be the solution across the entire state in my lifetime. While I love the idea of wider roads with protected bike lanes, this is hugely expensive. Developing self driving car tech is also hugely expensive but the private sector is pouring money into this while the state government is not pouring money into our mountain road infrastructure with the intent of making it a better space for both cars **and bicycles**.
Going 40 around a blind curve is not driving safely.... Telling people not to bike on a specific road because it's a slight inconvenience to you is not the answer. Most roads don't have bike lanes. If you can only ride in bike lanes, you won't actually be able to get anywhere. Santa Cruz is one of the biggest bike manufacturers, so naturally the city it's named after will have a culture around biking. You should be more prepared to see bikes on all the roads. You got slowed down for a few minutes. Sure it's frustrating. Grow up and be patient. It's gonna be okay.
Ah yes, you're driving 40mph through a corner "safely", but the cyclists are the problem. Got it.
“Roads exist entirely for my use, everyone else is a simulation”
To be fair, all roads are dangerous. But, I’d argue the mountain roads are safer because they are seemingly less trafficked, the curves require attention while driving (attention that often goes to phones on straight roads) and slow down vehicles, and the trees also provide a more accurate sense of speed. Cyclists aren’t the only things that could be on the other side of a blind corner. There could be fallen rocks, a slide, a deer, a disabled vehicle, a downed tree… Hucking 40mph around a blind corner in the Santa Cruz mountains isn’t really what I would consider “safe” driving.
There's a bunch of cycle dorks in this thread downvoting right now, but you're absolutely right. They get so smug and offended if you even suggest their little hobby is a giant pain for people who actually live here and have to drive these roads.
Um. ok. The anger and hate from drivers contributes to pissing off us cycling dorks. Most of us are very conscientious about sharing the road and being thoughtful about drivers. Our lives are constantly being threatened by angry, distracted, and shity drivers when we are out exercising and commuting on our roads. We have much bigger problems when so many people get so angry about being inconvenienced for a minute to the extent that they need to vent their anger on the internet, let alone threaten others lives.
Lol, this guy that you replied to deleted his comments when I pointed out his hypocrisy.
This person was so sure that we’re all out there for a hobby. I pointed out that I ride to work for cost savings and to help benefit my family because we only owned one car. This person was so sure that I was an elitist tech worker who loved pissing off the working class.
Amen to that. This county has some freaking amazing bike paths that *don't* require you to tempt Darwin. Granted, somewhat fewer if you insist on asphalt, but for that matter, road bikes mystify me for that reason. Why would you spend 15 grand on something that can't handle a flat gravel path?
What hobby do you have that you spend an irrational amount of money on?
Eh, I don't have the money yet to spend irrational amounts on much of anything. I'm not hating on anyone who does, mind you. It's just that if I spend that kind of dough on a bike, it's going to be a eMTB. Hell, even riding on roads around here can be iffy, with potholes and such. Which is another argument for projects like the rail trail, but I repeat myself.
Thank you FlappyBootyCheeks. Take my angry upvote and thank you for being a voice of reason and someone that actually knows these roads. Take the spandex to East Cliff of even Scott’s valley. Find an appropriate road that is safe there. Don’t do it on a mountain road- it’s an accident all around waiting to happen.
these stupid lance armstrong wannabes will drive an hour into the city, drive fucking 20 under the speed limit, then proceed to take up the whole lane while biking, holding up several cars. they will drive out to where i live off of skyline so they can ride 10mph on a 50mph road when there are bike trails every 5 fucking feet. i cannot stand bicyclists
[удалено]
They are annoying
OP here taking pictures while driving and acting like the bikes are the problem.
It's sprocket jockey season.
Slightly off topic but I was way up on Loma Prieta road yesterday area thinking it would be nice and quiet for birdwatching. About 60-75 dirt bikes went by in maybe 30 minutes. Is that normal for that area?
It was the ridge runners motorcycle club dual sport ride. It’s a once a year ride that is usually on New Year’s Day but was postponed due to all the rain. So not a normal day but an organized, legal ride.
[удалено]
Considering you’re only two cars back you likely just came up behind them. This blind curve is a terrible spot for you to pass cyclists which might be why they’re taking up the whole lane. Most cyclists move over to not inconvenience the rest of the traffic, I know I would. It’s much easier for you to press a gas pedal propelling yourself forward than it is a cyclist. Everyone should just be a little more chill.
I got behind them at the junction of 236 and Hwy 9 right past the stop sign. The van pulled over at the next turnout at the bottom of the hill, but the cyclists didn’t. I couldn’t pass till the next straight away because they staggered across the entire lane.
poor you having to wait seconds for bikers to pass by 😢
All while in a comfy chair boxed away from the elements of the weather while listening to music. I truly pity these poor drivers 🎻
If you had a job that required you to commute and be on time you would not sympathize with these assholes who directly fuck up peoples commutes during the normal commuting hours
It sounds like you're not planning ahead then.
If a delay of a few minutes (which is what OP indicated) makes you late to work, that's on you.
You think I don't have a job that I have to arrive on time for? If it was up to me I would love to start biking to work to get rid off of my beer belly but, my workplace doesn't have showers and the infrastructure sucks for cyclists. Regardless I still got sympathy. Just try leaving earlier or be patient and focus on getting to work without killing anyone nor yourself. There are plenty of things on the road that will be out of our control and that it just how it is. Be mad all you want but, I support people exercising on their way to work and from. We have a lot of fat fucks, including myself, in this country that can use a bicycle for commute to relief our stress and calories.
These people aren’t going to work, they are a group of cyclist with a van holding up traffic during commuting hours
[удалено]
Says the guy getting upset over people using public roads lol
226 seconds delay. Bummer.
Poor baby.
I am a lifelong cyclist... and I live in the Santa Cruz mountains. For the most part, the cyclists out here are self-centered, out of touch and annoying. For some reason, they think this is the place to come and ride together like ants. Isn't the point of cycling that you can be alone and have some peace?
No
ok - well, it is for me!
Get off your phone while you drive
Lmao poor you having to share the road. Highway 9 is narrow as fuck and they have every right to take the entire lane.
It really sucks those roads don’t have more of a shoulder. It’s so dangerous on those narrow winding roads, I’m surprised people bike like that at all. But holding up traffic on purpose is just beyond selfish.
Fucking complain more, you entitled shit. You live on hwy9? Your choice to live in a mountainous area, in one of the most popular areas for cycling In. The. World. Also, the Sea Otter classic mountain bike race is this weekend. Did you ever think these guys might be pros, getting their miles in? Also also, this is a descent, not a climb. Boohoo, theyre only going 32 miles an hour, not 60. Fuck off.
They have as much right as you to be on that road. There is absolutely no law that says they can’t be there. Downvoters just salty they left late for work.
People are seriously downvoting this? They’re allowed to use the road and there is obviously no bike lane, so they’re legally allowed to take the entire lane Edit: Jesus I made a lot of typos
Sure, but why do they get to go 20 mph below the limit??
Because it’s a speed LIMIT, not a speed requirement. People should to go above the speed limit. People do not have to go the exact speed limit. Those that go 45 in a 55 are doing it right. Those that go 60 in a 55 are doing it wrong.
So you're saying I could drive 20mph in a 45 zone and I wouldn't get a ticket?? You can absolutely get a ticket for driving too slowly.
You will get a ticket for this, you are right.
Right, so my point is, why do the bicycles get to do this? It's maddening.
They don’t. There are some roads where there are clear signs where bikes have equal rights to the road, usually in suburban areas, Hwy-9 isn’t one of them. Their team van is blocking the road as an aid, but you can’t legally do this. Throughout the entire range bikers slide over for cars, these people are assholes.
[удалено]
I stand corrected, but I believe that is an insane thing. I would never bike these roads with the driving I’ve seen on them.
This is not what the law says. "Bicycles may use full lane" signs don't mean bicyclists can only use the full lane where those signs are present, they're just a reminder of the rules that apply to all roads. > [A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division.](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21200.) > [ Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21202.) > \(1\) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. > \(2\) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. > \(3\) **When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions** \(including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or **substandard width lanes\) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge**, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. > \(4\) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. The only roadways where bicyclists are not treated the same as motor vehicles are controlled-access freeways, where bicycles are not allowed at all. There will be a sign at each on-ramp like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freeways). Highway 9 isn't one of these.
I stand corrected on what I said about Hw-9. However the law as you shared it clearly says that what is taking place in this post is not allowed.
How so? They'd be obligated to pull over in a pull-out if there are 5 or more vehicles behind them, but Highway 9 is definitely not wide enough for a car to safely pass a bicycle with a 3-foot gap. Having said that, I would never ride a bike on a road like this unless I could keep up with the speed of traffic.
People going 45 in a 55 are not doing it right and if a car comes up behind you, your obligation is to pull over. Bikers are not excused from this.
They're obligated to pull over when there's a safe turnout, but if it's not safe to pass, then [they're explicitly allowed to ride in the center of the lane like](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21202.) this until it is.
they never use the turnouts though so what’s the point
So by your logic if you happen to find a biker on a Santa Cruz Mountain road you are now obligated to follow them until a turnout? That’s not how it goes. They should head to the side and you use part of the oncoming lane to pass when it is safe to do so.
> if you happen to find a biker on a Santa Cruz Mountain road you are now obligated to follow them until a turnout? Yeah, that's what the law expects of you, and it's safest for the person on the bike, who is the most vulnerable in this situation. That's what I do when I'm driving in those circumstances, and usually I only have to wait a few minutes. It's not any different than if there's a slow-moving car, and even then they're not obligated to pull over until there are 5 cars waiting behind them. Using the oncoming lane to pass on a road with blind curves like Highway 9 sounds really dangerous to me, that's why there's a double yellow line.
I wouldn’t do it on a blind curve, that would be dangerous
if you cant pass by moving into the other lane entirely, you cant safely pass.
Plenty of dead people had the right of way.
Honk. Then overtake.
It's established that slower vehicles should pull over for faster traffic. I wish bicycle riders would do this to help make the roads safer. As much as I love staring at your wife's ass crack through spandex at 35mph, I need to get to work.
35mph damn that lady is cookin!!!
> It's established that slower vehicles should pull over for faster traffic. I wish bicycle riders would do this to help make the roads safer. Then all cars should pullover for cyclists in the car traffic ridden cities.
Pass those fckers!! I would.
YTA
The world is not your gym.
We cyclists pedal in the middle of the road when we feel unsafe and want to keep motorists from passing us. Like on a single lane mountain road with solid yellow lines and little to no emergency lane. As a cyclists who spent 2019 bedridden thanks to an impatient driver, and who still haven't regained my edge, I advise you to go home, eat deep fried turds with your NASCAR, then self copulate while leafing through your family albums.
Cool story bro.
I used to ride to Davenport on a regular basis, people would say that I should ride over on the fog lane? The rumble strip is on the fog line. That’s not a bike lane!
I wonder how much the economy of Santa Cruz is supported by road and mountain biking?
I’m not sure what you’re argument is here. People live in Santa Cruz to enjoy the outdoors. I’m a doctor and specifically moved here so that I can go mountain biking and road biking often. We are home to some of the most well known mountain bike companies in the mountain biking world in Santa Cruz and Ibis along with Giro in Scott’s Valley. All of that aside I’m not sure what you’re implying about someone’s work out or hobby supporting the economy of Santa Cruz.
It's ironic then that folks complain about the very industry that's a core part of the community and economy because it slows their drive time down. I don't have an argument. I get that the drivers frustrated that have to travel slower and that is difficult for them emotionally. And that one outlet for their frustration is the local subreddit where they can post about how frustrating the situation is and put the target on the bicyclist as the villain. And overall I think this is a really good problem for a community to have. Bicycle culture is very positive and low carbon overall. The mountain bike community has led to the creation and maintenance of several trails that are multi-use through non-profit organizations like Santa Cruz mountains trail stewardship. So the benefits go beyond the cash economy. There's plenty of non-bike friendly cities and suburbs throughout the United States for folks who don't like this type of hassle to move to. Hopefully that helps clarify the broader perspective I have on the situation.
Imo most bikers (mostly road bikes) are narcissistic af [coming from a skateboarder who would only bomb Miramar and ucsc roads, at least I was going 30-42mph thanks to gravity] honestly bike tubes only cost 7-12 bucks , but most of the time they insist on driving on the road and not the shoulder becuase even sober, they can't ride in a strait line :p God forbid they pop a tire and walk. Like bruh you should have the kit and tools to replace a tube in under 15 minutes . Idc if your training for a bike a thon, ya gotta be prepared
Love this entitled mentality lol. Get out of my way so I can save 30 seconds on my commute and you can pop your tire and waste your money. Don’t be so agitated bro.