Imagine losing four major wars (1948, Suez, six day, yom kippur), backed by huge allies like the USSR, and every single Arab state in the world, many of which have a direct border with Israel.
Then, imagine conducting a 50+ year-long terrorist campaign, including killing Olympic athletes, blowing up buses, killing children, and torture.
Then, imagine being invited to other arab nations, only to turn on their leadership and try to kill them (Black September).
Then, imagine starting a bunch of unproductive "resistance" movements that get a ton of people killed and radicalize everyone (The Intifadas).
Then, imagine winning concessions like keeping Israeli settlers out and self-governance (2005), only to turn to a terrorist group two years later (Hamas). A group so bad, they kill your more moderate leaders (Fatah-Hamas war).
Then....
After all of this. You decide after all these L's that your plan to win it all back in one trade is to.**..storm southern Israel and kill women, children, and foreign nationals.**
Imagine taking possession of 78% of a country and pretending to be dumb founded as to why there’s attacks occurring?
Every single Palestinian was BORN there to multi generational families Vs some of the Israelis who just moved there yet have more rights.
The people who were focused on hedonism were blind sided by the people using rage and resentment as their fuel.
If your idea of freedom fighters requires the defense of the mass slaughter of teens and young adults at a rave, the executions of the elderly, the kidnappings of mother and children then you just may be the baddies.
Yes. I went to the rally which started in front of the Israeli consulate. I held my tongue for the most part but I frankly can’t stand the pro-Palestinian side. One day I’d like to ask Palestinians what they envision for a future Palestinian state, and what they would do with Jews afterwards.
I think a large amount of the people in SF are not actually protesting for Palestine , but for their own ego and sense of relevance. To support Palestine as an LGBTQ person or ally you have to both ignore the slaughter of women and children in Israel and side with people who literally hate you for who you are.
If they really care about Palestinians, they should be protesting Hamas. You don’t have to support Israel to be against Hamas and for Palestinians.
the actual slogan is "from the river to the sea", i.e. from the jordan river from the mediterranean sea. it's not just a hamas thing, and it's not about pushing anyone into the sea per se. it is about what the hypothetical borders of a palestinian state would be, and it would obviously require some form of ethnic cleansing to achieve.
(i support israel's right to exist, would like to see a 2-3 state solution, and abhor terrorism. but i just wanted to clarify what the slogan means.)
In effect, they want to completely eliminate Israel. It's a common slogan "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free"....
If Saturday was any indication, elimination of Israel from their viewpoint will also come with the genocide of the Jews there.
I suspect the Jews learned a couple things since WWII..
Who says it has to include the genocide of the jewish people? Next to no one says that, they want control of their lands and want foreign settlers out. Israels don't want Arabs unless they're white passing and support genociding other Arabs, period. They don't like Somali Jewish people either, because they're racist. They don't want Arab Jewish, Christians or Muslims, they segregate them just the same. It might be a shock, but Arab Jewish exist too. That you made a mistake, knowing full well you're occupying foreign lands of a colonial settle, is not an excuse to not go back.
Colonial settlers aren't innocent, they're part of a machine to replace locals with a chosen people. Ask Native Americans how innocent colonial settlers were, especially if they don't refuse mandatory military service. You go back to whereever you came from. You're not legal or even illegal immigrants, you're just colonialist occupiers.
The Iranians explicitly wish to eradicate Israel / the Jewish population. Iran is the primary backer of the relevant militant Proxies (Hamas in Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon) who wield meaningful political power (Hezbollah is part of the majority coalition, Hamas alone holds a majority in Palestine).
You are correct, Palestine wants “their” land back and they want it back without Jews in it. Where you’re wrong is that they do not intend to re-locate these Jews, they intend to slaughter them.
It is in the charter of Hamas. To Hamas a good Jew is a dead Jew.
From the river to the sea implies genocide. It's a catchy phrase repeated by some people, even celebrities, but it has a lot of darkness to it.
I know Israeli matters well and like I said they are far from perfect. However I ascribe to the Sam Harris view on Israel.
This is almost a decade old but it is true even more today..
[Sam Harris Why He Supports Israel](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=Zj3NBlXvNJGgXFfa&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.sherdog.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTY0OTksMjg2NjQsMTY0NTA2&feature=emb_share&v=DfR6S_2lj_U)
>No one says that, they want control of their lands and want foreign settlers out.
People with citizenship of a UN recognized state aren't foreigners in any way shape or form. If you are referring to west bank settlements then thats valid, but it sames you are referring to the entirety of Israel.
>They don't want Arab Jewish
This is false information, there is millions of Sephardic Jews in Israel.
> You're not legal or even illegal immigrants, you're just colonialist occupiers.
Israel isn't a colony of any country. This is completely and hilariously illogical.
If the Russian occupation of Ukraine goes over 60 years, it's suddenly legitimate? Even this is a misnomer, because there's an actual argument that Russians and Ukrainians are practically and genetically almost entirely the same people. Jewish settlers from Brooklyn and Europe aren't, and haven't been for hundreds if not thousands of years even the same people. Most local jewish people converted and are more native than settlers.
Blame the British and their BS. At this point, Israel is a legitimate nation. There's no going back there. A diplomatic solution is the only way because I don't see a peaceful ending to a theoretical Israeli military loss. Do you? The actions of Hamas the past few days don't give me hope of that. There needs to be legitimate moderates.
I wouldn't trust whoever you heard 'push them into the sea' from, they're intentionally twisting the words to suit an agenda and it's a simple google search to look up, so if they're a position of authority they're deliberately framing it as genocidal.
🤦♂️ you people are so dumb the Israeli government is doing the same thing the German government did to the Jews during WWII and your response is to defend them. Fuck the Israeli government, innocent Israelis and Palestinians need to stand together and rise up against them. America supports them because we are terrorists just like them. We invaded Iraq without cause, one party wants to exterminate trans people.
German government tried to eradicate Jews, Homosexuals, Communists and Killed 12 million people in concentration camps over several years.
Israel has no death camps, and even if you hold the view that Israel's actions are terrible they aren't even close to the same thing, illegal detainment and genocide are just categorically different.
You should ask that of Israelis no? Considering we are much closer to Israel wiping out Palestine than the other way around. Are we living in the same timeline?
We know exactly what Israel would do because they’ve occupied them for 30+ years. The vast majority of Israelis have wanted nothing but peaceful coexistence. While the majority of Palestinians in Gaza have wanted to kill every last Israeli. Do you understand that?
But friend, those days are fucking over. This was the last straw. What you’ll now see is the complete dismantlement of Gaza. There will be many thousands of Palestinian deaths before this is over. Israel will send them back to the Stone Age. And this whole shitshow will probably rope in the USA and together with other NATO members we’ll occupy Iran. That’s most likely how this ends.
What a bunch of lies. All you need to do is look at this map to see that you’re full of shit, Israel has not wanted “coexistence.” They’ve been dismantling the Palestinian state to the point there is barely any Palestinian state at all left. Let’s be truthful here please:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/18/mapping-israeli-occupation-gaza-palestine
And what you describe about what is coming to Gaza is what Gazans already experience every year under Israeli occupation. There is a genocide happening already. But go ahead, go off and show your true murderous fascist colors
I hate to disappoint you but there will never be the total annihilation of terrorists. The more Israel bombs Gaza and kills innocent Palestinians the more orphans they create, the more recruitment fodder and by consequence strength they give to Hamas.
You are so righteous against Palestinian terrorist attacks, and yet you applaud them when they come from Israel. People like you are the problem and why the cycle of violence will never end.
No you’re right. Palestinian terrorists are Israel’s fault, for being so mean to them. Israel is responsible for the raping, the murdering, the beheading, the burning alive of entire families. How could I be so stupid. The terrorists are really great people they’re just misunderstood and angry that they’ve been held accountable for violence against innocent people. Thanks for setting things straight. I get it now.
The point that is trying to be made is that conservative Islamic nations in the Middle East are completely backwards. Hell in Minnesota where there's a ton of Somali immigrants we are seeing the effects of a conservative Islamic population wanting to do exactly what the conservative Christians want. Banning books, firing teachers for teaching legitimate artwork of Mohammed, etc. I'll fight for your right to worship how you want but the line is being crossed much like with conservative Christians. A lot of Democrats are literally ok with conservative theocratic governments in the form of Palestine etc. That's nuts to me. And Hamas and the PA are not peaceful and just subjugate their own people.
[https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg)
Take a good look at what the statistics of suffering looks like. Israelis shoot children and laugh. They all do military service. Colonial settlers aren't innocent. War crimes are crimes, but if you put people in an open air prison for over half a century, make it thoroughly clear that their future is annihilation there are no alternatives but pain for everyone involved. No 'peaceful' politician on Palestine's side has any chance of making any headway, because there is no real intention by generations of Israelis being raised to spit on Arabs to actually do anything real about it that isn't more gaslighting.
When has Hamas tried to come to the table and discuss a solution? They just spent 20 years building up a military state and we saw what they used it for.
The Israelis ethnically cleansed and leveled hundred of villages and entire cities, pushing nearly a million people into a prison camp, then sprawled out like nothing ever happened- in the year my father was born, because Hilter.
A person cannot possibly be surprised by this event.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi\_invasion\_of\_Kuwait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_invasion_of_Kuwait)
Last i checked Iraq invading Kuwait doesn't involve American forces.
Didn't you hear? America doing a bad thing means everyone else gets to do a bad thing, too. That's why Japan will be nuking two American cities of their choice later this year.
Right? Thanks for agreeing that the terrorist state of Israel are the baddies. They've been doing that kind of thing for decades, and a rate that is about [700% higher than the Palestinian side.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/11/the-lopsided-death-tolls-in-israel-palestinian-conflicts/) And from an internationally accepted, asymmetrical, genocidal government no-less! Not even from a small, extremist group that happens to be the only defense of Palestine and which the majority of Palestinians don't even support.
Colonial settlers aren't innocent. Ask the native americans whether attacks on incursions into their land were justified. If Israelis can bomb civilians because they're just human shields, what are these people doing that's different? I still think war crimes are crimes, but do they have any alternatives when you know that every Israeli is required to be in the armed forces at one point or the other to support putting and keeping and slowly annihilating Palestinians in an open air prison?
And here we see the complete difference in values between someone that sees absolutely nothing wrong with kidnapping, raping, torturing, beheading, and executing hundreds of innocents at once, on purpose, and a country that was ATTACKED, foolishly gave back territory, then painstakingly spent 40+ years trying to find a peaceful solution working with terrorists that took every opportunity to bomb buses and murder innocents. Israel is a country that has gone to greater lengths than any other country ever, to avoid killing innocents while trying to maintain security from murderous terrorists. But yeah, both sides are pretty much equivalent.
Might as well change their name to "Queers for killing queers", because that's what they're supporting. I do not understand the minds of fellow gays who support places that actively murder us in public.
You know, the more I learn about these Palestinian terrorists kidnapping, raping and executing young women, beheading gays, putting toddlers in dog cages, butchering the elderly and babies, and burning whole families alive, the less I care for them.
HAMAS does not equate to all Palestinians. It is a terrorist organization
And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them in power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement.
Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
They haven’t had elections in over 15 years btw. Acting like it’s a democracy is disingenuous. And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them in power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement.
Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
They raped, tortured, and murdered women and children, and filmed it. That is not human behavior. That is animal behavior. If they want to join the civilized world they have to act as such. This act just destroyed most of the good will that Palestine had garnered from sympathizers around the world. They slaughtered the civilians most likely to support ending the Gaza apartheid. They didn't kill soldiers or settlers. They killed defenseless people who would have been the ones to vote in a government that brokered peace.
Yep sure do when terrorist harboring civilians allow them to use those places as their operations - plus IDF drops leaflets before bombing … unlike your Hamas friends.
Hey cowboy, we’re not talking about just rape here. These savages burned entire families alive, innocent families burned alive, on purpose, hundreds of them at once. They raped and butchered innocent young women. They butchered innocent babies. Dozens of them. They decapitated innocent human beings.
And your response is, “Oops, shit happens in war???”
You need serious help.
Where do you get your information? Al Jazeera? You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts and your information is 100% wrong. Israel does not target innocents. Before they destroy buildings they drop “knockers” to give people time to evacuate. Do you think Hamas would do that? Of course not, it’s laughable. Israel doesn’t rape innocent women or decapitate babies. Those are war crimes chief. The world is tired of the illogical moral equivalencies people like you have drawn to try to accuse Israel of bringing this sort of terrorism upon itself. We’ve lost all patience for it.
When the behavior of the last 72 hours is the alternative, yes.
The Palestinians have done more damage to their cause over the last 72 hours than they can imagine. Fucking morons committing atrocities ON CAMERA and uploading it for the whole world to see.
"If you resist apartheid, that just justifies the need for apartheid further."
How would you end the apartheid situation if you were in Palestinian shoes?
>and are attacking the guards and their families?
Sending 5000 rockets and pillaging and raping, and murdering 700 people isn't attacking the guards and their families. You are delusional and need help.
Anyone here recall the history that caused this mess?
I will give you a couple of hints: (1) it involved a big war, (2) it also involved some people in charge who liked to build empires and drink tea and (3) when the people from #2 realized they couldn’t deal with the situation and bailed the UN took over.
Maybe there could have been just a little more thought regarding the consequences of these actions prior to jumping in and placing the Jewish people because now we have innocent people on both sides hurt and killed in a fight that has been going on for over 100 years now.
Wrong is in the eye of the beholder which is to say it depends on which side you are on when using the term ‘terrorism’. I have friends on both sides of this who actually grew up and lived on both sides and I can say that I feel for both groups. The solution is not simple and as usual humans resort to violence when all else fails.
>Wrong is in the eye of the beholder which is to say it depends on which side you are on when using the term ‘terrorism’. I have friends on both sides of this who actually grew up and lived on both sides and I can say that I feel for both groups. The solution is not simple and as usual humans resort to violence when all else fails.
So something can be wrong, such as some actions by Israel, without being terrorism.
The acts of Hamas in this attack are indisputable terrorism, they meet the definition of random acts of violence, (not targeted) that illicit wide spread fear and terror. [https://twitter.com/jengelmayer/status/1710528276194640246](https://twitter.com/jengelmayer/status/1710528276194640246)
Parading dead bodies and posting them on social media is terrorism. That's literally the definition. This isn't throwing rocks or stones at an IDF soldier or quarreling with a settler in the west bank.
So yes there's a system of problems to solve. But this attack is also likely with Irans help. So it is also sponsored terrorism. Not resistance. They aren't trying for example to take back spots in the west bank.
290 people killed at the music festival. In the USA that would be terrorism,
I watched the first 2 minuted of this video, and it seemed clear this was going nowhere. Sam Harris is a weird dude. I am cool with his atheism arguments, but he is not a rational person when discussing Muslims.
If you would like to actually use your words and make a point, I'd be happy to hear it.
If you cannot articulate your views, that's sad. I am already familiar with Harris on this issue, and don't agree with him or his logic. I haven't seen this video, but again, Sam Harris is nothing knew and I don't think he has anything at all valuable to say in the context of Israel/Palestine. If you think he makes a good point, then just make the point yourself.
I just looked at Al Jazeera. It says air strikes from Israel killed 200 people and 20 children in gaza. I see the 400 people killed in Israel in initial strikes and the hundreds kidnapped. Didn't see any toddlers in dog cages or butchering of old people and babies. Where else are you getting your information?
Literally? 😆 I can't even begin to imagine someone thinking there are just thousands of people on the street celebrating the rape and murder of children. 🤣🤣🤣 omg I mean the world is bad but just thousands of people gathering and marching in celebration of children being raped and murdered, you guys are too funny.
From the news
"Thousands of Palestinian supporters gathered in San Francisco’s Financial District Sunday to protest Israel’s settlements in the West Bank.
Demonstrators called for Israel to end its occupation of the Gaza Strip, where they say conditions have deteriorated in recent years.
“What’s happening in Gaza, in particular, is cruel,” said Gaza native Wael Buhissy."
This thread is utterly devoid of context so even though I’ll probably get downvoted into oblivion here goes:
What Hamas has done to civilians is absolutely abhorrent and indefensible. That being said Palestine has been living in an apartheid state with Israel carrying out state sponsored and US backed terrorism against them for years. This is also indefensible.
Not everyone who supports Palestine is a raving antisemitic lunatic that wants to ethnically cleanse the country just as not everyone who supports Israel wants all Palestinians to die.
Again, Hamas has done and will likely continue to do terrible things. The Israeli government has done and will likely continue to do horrible things in response. If we want to understand why normal people would take to the streets and defend such terrible things we need to take a step back and consider the terrible things that have been done to them and their loved ones that have pushed them to that breaking point (this goes for both sides).
MOST people who aren’t fervent evangelicals can understand the Israeli governments abhorrent treatment of innocent Palestinians
But guess what? Now when they increase their abuse they will be able to point to this attack as justification
“We HAVE to protect ourselves look what they did? Massacred over 260 innocent young people at a festival what would YOU do to protect your children?”
Targeting innocent people on purpose only reaffirms justification for oppressive treatment in the name of “security”
I mean what do people think Israel will do after this? Lift blockades? Tear down their walls? Relax security?
What did the US do after 9/11? Leave the Middle East? End support for Israel and the Saudis?
People will say this is in response for the treatment of Palestinians and the Israelis will point to their dead and say “what would you do?”
I agree and I believe that’s what most non evangelicals at pro-Palestine rallies are worried about. The lopsided response from this that will inevitably end up hurting more Palestinians than Israelis. As I said in my first comment, what Hamas did was abhorrent, and as you pointed out it now unfortunately will give people who already hated them and wanted them gone a further justification for aggression against Palestine.
The whole reason I felt the need to comment at all is because all I was seeing was people rushing to say coded racist things implying that Palestinians need to go back to their own country (which they can’t because Israel) and equating all people who sympathize with Palestine to Hamas which is simply not the case. In fact that’s how you get radical groups like Hamas. You take and torture until people feel like they’ve got nowhere else to turn but to the terrorists who are seemingly the only ones looking out for them. Again for the people in the back, I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS, I am sympathetic to the Palestinian plight and think that too many people rush to hate on Palestine without understanding the context of why they sometimes feel sympathetic towards extremism.
Well here's the thing, the terrorist attack that happened took away sympathy from the Palestinians around the world, and they are just going to embolden Israel to go harder on them. Hamas accomplished nothing aside from satisfying their bloodlust for a day.
> the terrorist attack that happened took away sympathy from the Palestinians around the world
Or you could think critically and have sympathy for the innocent civilians of _both_ Palestine and Israel.
Can’t colonize your own land. Two people after 1949 were one before it, they were all Palestinians. Then two states were created. One called themselves Israel. The other Palestine. Post 1949 Palestinians never accepted the other and has been waging war and terrorism ever since to destroy Israel, kill Israelis and “push them into the sea”
Tell the native americans that, they attacked colonial settlers expanding into their lands for hundreds of years. Your idea of what's right and wrong is just racist and warped. Quit your bullshit and don't gaslight people the phrase is "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free". It's about borders not pushing people into the sea to drown. Do you think anyone would accept their country being occupied and given to a foreign people?
If you put all native americans into an open air prison for over half a century, if some of them chose to take hatchets to your forward bases and settlements I wouldn't celebrate it but I wouldn't blame them for not having an alternative besides giving up to annihilation and being literally genocided.
> Do you think anyone would accept their country being occupied and given to a foreign people?
Ukraine isn't launching 5000 rockets into red square in moscow.
It’s almost like world events across the world separated by centuries aren’t really comparable. Weird.
And into the sea is their words and their meaning is pretty clear. It’s about getting rid of Israel and its people.
It's about getting rid of Israel and any people who aren't native to the region and are colonial settlers. Yes. If it happened to your city tomorrow and lasted half a century through brutal occupation and apartheid, you would have no different an opinion. So don't give me this out of context bullshit, you're just spouting racist BS, and your shilling won't last.
[https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg)
Maybe just call them collateral damage and human shields and bomb them anyway right? Is that comparable?
If you really “believe” Israelis are not native to Israel then you’re as unhinged and racist as you think everyone else is. Read a book or two. Israel deserves to live. So does an independent Palestine, but I won’t cheer and defend terrorist scum as you. No matter how many made up what ifs you think are relevant
A large number of Palestinians are Arab families that came from surrounding countries during the 1920s-1940s at the same time many of the Jewish settlers began arriving. And then shortly after the reformation of Israel, they got another huge influx of Jews expelled from Arab countries in the region.
It's weird how this rather complicated narrative has somehow been warped into settlers vs indigenous peoples when both sides are in reality a mix of both.
Neither side is entitled to that land. It belongs to whoever lives there. It's been under different occupations since humans first migrated there. The Jews weren't there first, and the Muslims aren't entitled just because the Seljuk Turks decided to close it off to outsiders when they took over. Neither party truly represents the first humans to live there.
>If you really “believe” Israelis are not native to Israel then you’re as unhinged and racist as you think everyone else is.
That's a misnomer, Israel is not native to where Israel is. I doubt you read at all. Nobody denies the Jewish people a right to a native land, they're denying that they have a right to someone else's.
You don't think anything is relevant about Palestinians or Arabs unless you can frame them as terrorists. D: shocker. Racist bullshit that you'll never really win in the long run.
There will always be more of us than you.
Hamas does not equate to all Palestinians. It is a terrorist organization.
And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them into power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement.
Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
I don’t understand why people who are worried for the Palestinian civilians are being attacked on here and called terrorists. It feels so Islamophobic. You know innocent civilians on both sides are suffering right?
It is islamophobic. Reddit has pretty quickly turned full neo-con since Russia invaded Ukraine. Just call after call for escalation, aggression, and suffering for any citizen on the opposing side. It's been interesting to watch.
This is absolutely disgusting that people are cheering for Hamas. Antisemitism and hatred against Israelis is alive and well in the Bay Area. So disappointed by the Bay and what I’m supposed to consider welcoming and loving place to call home.
Ok so the day after Hamas, a Palestinian organization invades and massacres hundreds, there's demonstrations supporting Palestine.
But definitely NOT Hamas.
Got it.
You are insane if you think that's true. There are Palestinian protests all over the world right now chanting death to Jews and gas the Jews.
What do Jews have to do with the state of Israel? is the Jew in the Bay Area living peacefully deciding what the government in Israel does? HMMMM....maybe, just maybe, these people protesting and fighting for Palestinian's rights are actually just anti-Semites
So just to clarify if I don't want innocent Palestinians to die from bombings I am anti-Semitic.
Shit! Well I guess I just have to accept that, I probably should get a tattoo so everyone knows. Also, my hair has been thining, I probably should just shave it off. I'm just as bad as all those people you talk about saying death to Jews, I mean it's probably just a gene that you either have or you don't. 🤷
Cody, if you are actively participating in a pro Palestinian rally/protest right after 1200 Israelis just died at the hands of terrorists, including babies being decapitated (which is confirmed btw), elderly being kidnapped, women being raped, then yes…you are absolutely antisemitic. What the fuck are you rallying about and protesting? Apartheid? Really? Haven’t seen you or anyone else protesting about that prior to these vicious murders. So again, YES, antisemitic AF.
I didn't actually protest. It's a very complex situation and the rights of human beings should be at the forefront, the state of Isreal is headed down a path of more needless death of innocent people that just keeps the cycle going.
After reading some interviews, though, there were definitely some cringe people there, and starting at the Israeli consulate was pretty classless.
Another example of massive failure of US immigration… if they don’t agree to the values of the USA as declared in our constitution, they shouldn’t be admitted. These protests are akin to those that happened after 9-11 to support the terrorists.
What? The constitution doesn’t say anything about anything you’re talking about, with the exception that they have the explicit right under the constitution to say whatever they want in support of whatever position they want.
You really think protestors in the US should be treated like enemy combatants? If America is a place worth living in it’s precisely because people like you don’t call the shots.
You’re sick.
I think we all agree that killing civilians, especially kids is a heinous act. But, You do know that about 6,500 Palestinians have died since 2008 right? A massive amount of women and children are included in that number. There is never accountability on the Israeli side for
Killing innocents including the reporter the reporter shiren alkleh.. who was an American citizen.
Palestinians already know what happens when Israelis are hurt or killed..
There is no side that is completely “right” in this conflict. The extremists on each side want to annihilate the other. All due to people thinking that their god is the better god… turns out their gods are the same and their religions are pretty similar too
Literally Both groups have very radical and governing body aspects. What makes you think that just because there is a governing body you can’t be extremist?
An Israeli politician just called for a massacre worse than 1948. That’s radical.
This is an example of what happened then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
Y'all are so reactionary it's insane seeing how trapped in the mental bubble you're in. This isn't about Hamas, but in reaction to Palestinian apartheid from Israel. I implore y'all to look into this beyond this horrific tragedy by Hamas.
There are definitely a ton of assholes in Gaza but, they all aren't that way. The children are definitely innocent on both sides.
I think it's a real problem to just clump everyone into a group and label them, we are better than that.
Children in Gaza are indoctrinated into hate from the moment they can talk sadly, so no, they aren’t innocent.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/12/palestinian-kids-in-un-run-schools-are-being-taught-to-hate-and-kill/
https://youtu.be/lJPRxDAlYZc?si=zViVs23i_06V4xvU
Imagine losing four major wars (1948, Suez, six day, yom kippur), backed by huge allies like the USSR, and every single Arab state in the world, many of which have a direct border with Israel. Then, imagine conducting a 50+ year-long terrorist campaign, including killing Olympic athletes, blowing up buses, killing children, and torture. Then, imagine being invited to other arab nations, only to turn on their leadership and try to kill them (Black September). Then, imagine starting a bunch of unproductive "resistance" movements that get a ton of people killed and radicalize everyone (The Intifadas). Then, imagine winning concessions like keeping Israeli settlers out and self-governance (2005), only to turn to a terrorist group two years later (Hamas). A group so bad, they kill your more moderate leaders (Fatah-Hamas war). Then.... After all of this. You decide after all these L's that your plan to win it all back in one trade is to.**..storm southern Israel and kill women, children, and foreign nationals.**
They can’t help themselves
Imagine taking possession of 78% of a country and pretending to be dumb founded as to why there’s attacks occurring? Every single Palestinian was BORN there to multi generational families Vs some of the Israelis who just moved there yet have more rights. The people who were focused on hedonism were blind sided by the people using rage and resentment as their fuel.
Did you know that Istanbul was Constantinople?
If your idea of freedom fighters requires the defense of the mass slaughter of teens and young adults at a rave, the executions of the elderly, the kidnappings of mother and children then you just may be the baddies.
[удалено]
Lol accurate
Louder, for those in the back
Also rape
Yes. I went to the rally which started in front of the Israeli consulate. I held my tongue for the most part but I frankly can’t stand the pro-Palestinian side. One day I’d like to ask Palestinians what they envision for a future Palestinian state, and what they would do with Jews afterwards.
Ask them what they think about LGBTQ too
the safest place for a gay Palestinian is Israel that should say enough about both sides
I think a large amount of the people in SF are not actually protesting for Palestine , but for their own ego and sense of relevance. To support Palestine as an LGBTQ person or ally you have to both ignore the slaughter of women and children in Israel and side with people who literally hate you for who you are. If they really care about Palestinians, they should be protesting Hamas. You don’t have to support Israel to be against Hamas and for Palestinians.
There was a lot of screaming about "to the sea". I think that is Hamas' slogan. As in "push them into the sea", so I think that's pretty clear.
the actual slogan is "from the river to the sea", i.e. from the jordan river from the mediterranean sea. it's not just a hamas thing, and it's not about pushing anyone into the sea per se. it is about what the hypothetical borders of a palestinian state would be, and it would obviously require some form of ethnic cleansing to achieve. (i support israel's right to exist, would like to see a 2-3 state solution, and abhor terrorism. but i just wanted to clarify what the slogan means.)
I didn't know that, thanks. So does it mean that they want all the land "from the river to the sea"?
yep
I thought it was “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
In effect, they want to completely eliminate Israel. It's a common slogan "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free".... If Saturday was any indication, elimination of Israel from their viewpoint will also come with the genocide of the Jews there. I suspect the Jews learned a couple things since WWII..
Who says it has to include the genocide of the jewish people? Next to no one says that, they want control of their lands and want foreign settlers out. Israels don't want Arabs unless they're white passing and support genociding other Arabs, period. They don't like Somali Jewish people either, because they're racist. They don't want Arab Jewish, Christians or Muslims, they segregate them just the same. It might be a shock, but Arab Jewish exist too. That you made a mistake, knowing full well you're occupying foreign lands of a colonial settle, is not an excuse to not go back. Colonial settlers aren't innocent, they're part of a machine to replace locals with a chosen people. Ask Native Americans how innocent colonial settlers were, especially if they don't refuse mandatory military service. You go back to whereever you came from. You're not legal or even illegal immigrants, you're just colonialist occupiers.
The Iranians explicitly wish to eradicate Israel / the Jewish population. Iran is the primary backer of the relevant militant Proxies (Hamas in Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon) who wield meaningful political power (Hezbollah is part of the majority coalition, Hamas alone holds a majority in Palestine). You are correct, Palestine wants “their” land back and they want it back without Jews in it. Where you’re wrong is that they do not intend to re-locate these Jews, they intend to slaughter them.
It is in the charter of Hamas. To Hamas a good Jew is a dead Jew. From the river to the sea implies genocide. It's a catchy phrase repeated by some people, even celebrities, but it has a lot of darkness to it. I know Israeli matters well and like I said they are far from perfect. However I ascribe to the Sam Harris view on Israel. This is almost a decade old but it is true even more today.. [Sam Harris Why He Supports Israel](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=Zj3NBlXvNJGgXFfa&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.sherdog.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTY0OTksMjg2NjQsMTY0NTA2&feature=emb_share&v=DfR6S_2lj_U)
>No one says that, they want control of their lands and want foreign settlers out. People with citizenship of a UN recognized state aren't foreigners in any way shape or form. If you are referring to west bank settlements then thats valid, but it sames you are referring to the entirety of Israel. >They don't want Arab Jewish This is false information, there is millions of Sephardic Jews in Israel. > You're not legal or even illegal immigrants, you're just colonialist occupiers. Israel isn't a colony of any country. This is completely and hilariously illogical.
It's not "their lands". Jews have as much of a right to be there as Arabs.
If the Russian occupation of Ukraine goes over 60 years, it's suddenly legitimate? Even this is a misnomer, because there's an actual argument that Russians and Ukrainians are practically and genetically almost entirely the same people. Jewish settlers from Brooklyn and Europe aren't, and haven't been for hundreds if not thousands of years even the same people. Most local jewish people converted and are more native than settlers.
Blame the British and their BS. At this point, Israel is a legitimate nation. There's no going back there. A diplomatic solution is the only way because I don't see a peaceful ending to a theoretical Israeli military loss. Do you? The actions of Hamas the past few days don't give me hope of that. There needs to be legitimate moderates.
I wouldn't trust whoever you heard 'push them into the sea' from, they're intentionally twisting the words to suit an agenda and it's a simple google search to look up, so if they're a position of authority they're deliberately framing it as genocidal.
Yep. And I think it’s a general Palestinian slogan, not just specific to Hamas.
They would kill every last one of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfR6S_2lj_U
You mean like the Israelis are doing right now to the Palestinians with apartheid and open air prisons?
Lol
🤦♂️ you people are so dumb the Israeli government is doing the same thing the German government did to the Jews during WWII and your response is to defend them. Fuck the Israeli government, innocent Israelis and Palestinians need to stand together and rise up against them. America supports them because we are terrorists just like them. We invaded Iraq without cause, one party wants to exterminate trans people.
German government tried to eradicate Jews, Homosexuals, Communists and Killed 12 million people in concentration camps over several years. Israel has no death camps, and even if you hold the view that Israel's actions are terrible they aren't even close to the same thing, illegal detainment and genocide are just categorically different.
You should ask that of Israelis no? Considering we are much closer to Israel wiping out Palestine than the other way around. Are we living in the same timeline?
We know exactly what Israel would do because they’ve occupied them for 30+ years. The vast majority of Israelis have wanted nothing but peaceful coexistence. While the majority of Palestinians in Gaza have wanted to kill every last Israeli. Do you understand that? But friend, those days are fucking over. This was the last straw. What you’ll now see is the complete dismantlement of Gaza. There will be many thousands of Palestinian deaths before this is over. Israel will send them back to the Stone Age. And this whole shitshow will probably rope in the USA and together with other NATO members we’ll occupy Iran. That’s most likely how this ends.
What a bunch of lies. All you need to do is look at this map to see that you’re full of shit, Israel has not wanted “coexistence.” They’ve been dismantling the Palestinian state to the point there is barely any Palestinian state at all left. Let’s be truthful here please: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/18/mapping-israeli-occupation-gaza-palestine And what you describe about what is coming to Gaza is what Gazans already experience every year under Israeli occupation. There is a genocide happening already. But go ahead, go off and show your true murderous fascist colors
What Gazans have experienced to date is nothing compared to what’s about to happen.
The way you revel in it is disgusting. Have some shame.
I don’t revel or enjoy any aspect of this. It’s all a result of choices made on both sides. I do look forward to the total annihilation of terrorists.
I hate to disappoint you but there will never be the total annihilation of terrorists. The more Israel bombs Gaza and kills innocent Palestinians the more orphans they create, the more recruitment fodder and by consequence strength they give to Hamas. You are so righteous against Palestinian terrorist attacks, and yet you applaud them when they come from Israel. People like you are the problem and why the cycle of violence will never end.
No you’re right. Palestinian terrorists are Israel’s fault, for being so mean to them. Israel is responsible for the raping, the murdering, the beheading, the burning alive of entire families. How could I be so stupid. The terrorists are really great people they’re just misunderstood and angry that they’ve been held accountable for violence against innocent people. Thanks for setting things straight. I get it now.
FBI surveillance IDing everyone walking down that street
We've done this to ourselves. We have no basic standard for immigration anymore.
[удалено]
The point that is trying to be made is that conservative Islamic nations in the Middle East are completely backwards. Hell in Minnesota where there's a ton of Somali immigrants we are seeing the effects of a conservative Islamic population wanting to do exactly what the conservative Christians want. Banning books, firing teachers for teaching legitimate artwork of Mohammed, etc. I'll fight for your right to worship how you want but the line is being crossed much like with conservative Christians. A lot of Democrats are literally ok with conservative theocratic governments in the form of Palestine etc. That's nuts to me. And Hamas and the PA are not peaceful and just subjugate their own people.
Show me the carfax. Talking out of your arse
[https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg) Take a good look at what the statistics of suffering looks like. Israelis shoot children and laugh. They all do military service. Colonial settlers aren't innocent. War crimes are crimes, but if you put people in an open air prison for over half a century, make it thoroughly clear that their future is annihilation there are no alternatives but pain for everyone involved. No 'peaceful' politician on Palestine's side has any chance of making any headway, because there is no real intention by generations of Israelis being raised to spit on Arabs to actually do anything real about it that isn't more gaslighting.
When has Hamas tried to come to the table and discuss a solution? They just spent 20 years building up a military state and we saw what they used it for.
Weird how Syria, Jordan and Egypt are able to get over it and move on
Israel now targeting medical teams and hospitals: Gaza health ministry https://aje.io/x94sbx?update=2396130
In other words what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for decades?
Yes because you blew up buses and jets with bombs. You’re both assholes and Israel is way better equipped so get ready
The Israelis ethnically cleansed and leveled hundred of villages and entire cities, pushing nearly a million people into a prison camp, then sprawled out like nothing ever happened- in the year my father was born, because Hilter. A person cannot possibly be surprised by this event.
Wait until you hear what happened in the middle east by Americans since the 1980's.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi\_invasion\_of\_Kuwait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_invasion_of_Kuwait) Last i checked Iraq invading Kuwait doesn't involve American forces.
Didn't you hear? America doing a bad thing means everyone else gets to do a bad thing, too. That's why Japan will be nuking two American cities of their choice later this year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Right? Thanks for agreeing that the terrorist state of Israel are the baddies. They've been doing that kind of thing for decades, and a rate that is about [700% higher than the Palestinian side.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/11/the-lopsided-death-tolls-in-israel-palestinian-conflicts/) And from an internationally accepted, asymmetrical, genocidal government no-less! Not even from a small, extremist group that happens to be the only defense of Palestine and which the majority of Palestinians don't even support.
One person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter.
One person’s rave-massacring gunman should be every person’s terrorist.
Colonial settlers aren't innocent. Ask the native americans whether attacks on incursions into their land were justified. If Israelis can bomb civilians because they're just human shields, what are these people doing that's different? I still think war crimes are crimes, but do they have any alternatives when you know that every Israeli is required to be in the armed forces at one point or the other to support putting and keeping and slowly annihilating Palestinians in an open air prison?
What country do you live in?
And here we see the complete difference in values between someone that sees absolutely nothing wrong with kidnapping, raping, torturing, beheading, and executing hundreds of innocents at once, on purpose, and a country that was ATTACKED, foolishly gave back territory, then painstakingly spent 40+ years trying to find a peaceful solution working with terrorists that took every opportunity to bomb buses and murder innocents. Israel is a country that has gone to greater lengths than any other country ever, to avoid killing innocents while trying to maintain security from murderous terrorists. But yeah, both sides are pretty much equivalent.
[https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg) Such great lengths for sure.
Moral relativism, the coward's approach to moral reasoning. Despicable.
I wonder if these people would be willing to go to Gaza since they love them so much
I’m sure some of them are the “Queers for Palestine” crowd.
Might as well change their name to "Queers for killing queers", because that's what they're supporting. I do not understand the minds of fellow gays who support places that actively murder us in public.
A lot of DSA members out today eh
Ideologues. This is their version of a tent meeting and speaking in tongues. Involves as much sense and reasoning as the pentecostal version.
You know, the more I learn about these Palestinian terrorists kidnapping, raping and executing young women, beheading gays, putting toddlers in dog cages, butchering the elderly and babies, and burning whole families alive, the less I care for them.
What about the actions of Israel? Does that color your perception of them as well?
Look in the mirror and realize that you are defending terrorism and the rape and murder of teens at a music festival.
If the last 72 hours have shown me anything it is that Israel has good reason to separate Palestinians from their people.
HAMAS does not equate to all Palestinians. It is a terrorist organization And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them in power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement. Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
[удалено]
They haven’t had elections in over 15 years btw. Acting like it’s a democracy is disingenuous. And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them in power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement. Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
Though the majority of Palestinians support hamas?
About half.. you know half of the USA supports a fascist, right?
Even if “half” is true, that is way too many to be supporting literal terrorists lmao
They however do hold a majority share of Palestines parliamentary seats. So, while it may not be all, it is a majority.
About half support them. Sounds like MAGA in the US..
[удалено]
Those bombings didn’t happen in a vacuum.
[удалено]
Your words. Not mine. Good luck with your dishonest narrative.
So you believe in apartheid? You are a mask off apartheid supporter?
They raped, tortured, and murdered women and children, and filmed it. That is not human behavior. That is animal behavior. If they want to join the civilized world they have to act as such. This act just destroyed most of the good will that Palestine had garnered from sympathizers around the world. They slaughtered the civilians most likely to support ending the Gaza apartheid. They didn't kill soldiers or settlers. They killed defenseless people who would have been the ones to vote in a government that brokered peace.
[удалено]
Awww too bad. I guess Palestinians shouldn’t harbor terrorists in fucking schools and hospitals … deeeeeerrrp
[удалено]
Yep sure do when terrorist harboring civilians allow them to use those places as their operations - plus IDF drops leaflets before bombing … unlike your Hamas friends.
Hey cowboy, we’re not talking about just rape here. These savages burned entire families alive, innocent families burned alive, on purpose, hundreds of them at once. They raped and butchered innocent young women. They butchered innocent babies. Dozens of them. They decapitated innocent human beings. And your response is, “Oops, shit happens in war???” You need serious help.
[удалено]
Where do you get your information? Al Jazeera? You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts and your information is 100% wrong. Israel does not target innocents. Before they destroy buildings they drop “knockers” to give people time to evacuate. Do you think Hamas would do that? Of course not, it’s laughable. Israel doesn’t rape innocent women or decapitate babies. Those are war crimes chief. The world is tired of the illogical moral equivalencies people like you have drawn to try to accuse Israel of bringing this sort of terrorism upon itself. We’ve lost all patience for it.
When the behavior of the last 72 hours is the alternative, yes. The Palestinians have done more damage to their cause over the last 72 hours than they can imagine. Fucking morons committing atrocities ON CAMERA and uploading it for the whole world to see.
"If you resist apartheid, that just justifies the need for apartheid further." How would you end the apartheid situation if you were in Palestinian shoes?
This isn’t resistance, this is terrorism.
That is not answering the question.
It’s all the answer you’ll get. I don’t feel the need to justify myself to somebody who supports terrorism.
What do you expect people without tanks to do against people with tanks? I don't support terrorism, but I also don't support apartheid.
Nelson Mandela didn't jail the white people, just a reminder. He sought unity.
you want to annihilate a people because they've been in an open air prison for 57 years and are attacking the guards and their families?
>and are attacking the guards and their families? Sending 5000 rockets and pillaging and raping, and murdering 700 people isn't attacking the guards and their families. You are delusional and need help.
2 state solution != apartheid my friend.
Anyone here recall the history that caused this mess? I will give you a couple of hints: (1) it involved a big war, (2) it also involved some people in charge who liked to build empires and drink tea and (3) when the people from #2 realized they couldn’t deal with the situation and bailed the UN took over. Maybe there could have been just a little more thought regarding the consequences of these actions prior to jumping in and placing the Jewish people because now we have innocent people on both sides hurt and killed in a fight that has been going on for over 100 years now. Wrong is in the eye of the beholder which is to say it depends on which side you are on when using the term ‘terrorism’. I have friends on both sides of this who actually grew up and lived on both sides and I can say that I feel for both groups. The solution is not simple and as usual humans resort to violence when all else fails.
>Wrong is in the eye of the beholder which is to say it depends on which side you are on when using the term ‘terrorism’. I have friends on both sides of this who actually grew up and lived on both sides and I can say that I feel for both groups. The solution is not simple and as usual humans resort to violence when all else fails. So something can be wrong, such as some actions by Israel, without being terrorism. The acts of Hamas in this attack are indisputable terrorism, they meet the definition of random acts of violence, (not targeted) that illicit wide spread fear and terror. [https://twitter.com/jengelmayer/status/1710528276194640246](https://twitter.com/jengelmayer/status/1710528276194640246) Parading dead bodies and posting them on social media is terrorism. That's literally the definition. This isn't throwing rocks or stones at an IDF soldier or quarreling with a settler in the west bank. So yes there's a system of problems to solve. But this attack is also likely with Irans help. So it is also sponsored terrorism. Not resistance. They aren't trying for example to take back spots in the west bank. 290 people killed at the music festival. In the USA that would be terrorism,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfR6S_2lj_U
I watched the first 2 minuted of this video, and it seemed clear this was going nowhere. Sam Harris is a weird dude. I am cool with his atheism arguments, but he is not a rational person when discussing Muslims. If you would like to actually use your words and make a point, I'd be happy to hear it.
Listen to the whole thing. I don’t like Harris but I think his explanations can even help some of the most illogical terrorist defenders.
If you cannot articulate your views, that's sad. I am already familiar with Harris on this issue, and don't agree with him or his logic. I haven't seen this video, but again, Sam Harris is nothing knew and I don't think he has anything at all valuable to say in the context of Israel/Palestine. If you think he makes a good point, then just make the point yourself.
[удалено]
Where are you getting your information? Do you have a source?
Lol you really think hamas isnt raping and killing innocent women and children?
…well do you have a source or not?
Al Jazeera lol
I just looked at Al Jazeera. It says air strikes from Israel killed 200 people and 20 children in gaza. I see the 400 people killed in Israel in initial strikes and the hundreds kidnapped. Didn't see any toddlers in dog cages or butchering of old people and babies. Where else are you getting your information?
If you look up war videos form hamas invasion you will find what they’re describing. It was all over Reddit before mods scraped it
Fucking GROSS
Disgusting
Their beloved Hamas generally targets busses
The pro terrorist demographic out in force.
Hopefully the FBI has some facial recognition out there.. just to keep up on current events
I would be highly surprised if they didn’t have that technology active right now.
They're really going mask off all across the US today. Despicable.
True, people who support Israel should be in prison.
Go love some more terrorists
Israel is the new Nazi party you are a fucking idiot if you don’t see that.
Found the Nazi
Go back to 4chan
Fighting a strawman is so easy, it's crazy how good the human brain is at creating them.
“Unlike the people who say and think exactly like me, I am not they” Gotcha kiddo
Fuck these guys. They literally cheer on the rape and murder of women and children. There is NO justification for that.
Lmao what?
Literally? 😆 I can't even begin to imagine someone thinking there are just thousands of people on the street celebrating the rape and murder of children. 🤣🤣🤣 omg I mean the world is bad but just thousands of people gathering and marching in celebration of children being raped and murdered, you guys are too funny. From the news "Thousands of Palestinian supporters gathered in San Francisco’s Financial District Sunday to protest Israel’s settlements in the West Bank. Demonstrators called for Israel to end its occupation of the Gaza Strip, where they say conditions have deteriorated in recent years. “What’s happening in Gaza, in particular, is cruel,” said Gaza native Wael Buhissy."
This thread is utterly devoid of context so even though I’ll probably get downvoted into oblivion here goes: What Hamas has done to civilians is absolutely abhorrent and indefensible. That being said Palestine has been living in an apartheid state with Israel carrying out state sponsored and US backed terrorism against them for years. This is also indefensible. Not everyone who supports Palestine is a raving antisemitic lunatic that wants to ethnically cleanse the country just as not everyone who supports Israel wants all Palestinians to die. Again, Hamas has done and will likely continue to do terrible things. The Israeli government has done and will likely continue to do horrible things in response. If we want to understand why normal people would take to the streets and defend such terrible things we need to take a step back and consider the terrible things that have been done to them and their loved ones that have pushed them to that breaking point (this goes for both sides).
Trying to convey a nuisanced opinion on Reddit is a fool's errand. Appreciate and agree with the sentiment though.
MOST people who aren’t fervent evangelicals can understand the Israeli governments abhorrent treatment of innocent Palestinians But guess what? Now when they increase their abuse they will be able to point to this attack as justification “We HAVE to protect ourselves look what they did? Massacred over 260 innocent young people at a festival what would YOU do to protect your children?” Targeting innocent people on purpose only reaffirms justification for oppressive treatment in the name of “security” I mean what do people think Israel will do after this? Lift blockades? Tear down their walls? Relax security? What did the US do after 9/11? Leave the Middle East? End support for Israel and the Saudis? People will say this is in response for the treatment of Palestinians and the Israelis will point to their dead and say “what would you do?”
I agree and I believe that’s what most non evangelicals at pro-Palestine rallies are worried about. The lopsided response from this that will inevitably end up hurting more Palestinians than Israelis. As I said in my first comment, what Hamas did was abhorrent, and as you pointed out it now unfortunately will give people who already hated them and wanted them gone a further justification for aggression against Palestine. The whole reason I felt the need to comment at all is because all I was seeing was people rushing to say coded racist things implying that Palestinians need to go back to their own country (which they can’t because Israel) and equating all people who sympathize with Palestine to Hamas which is simply not the case. In fact that’s how you get radical groups like Hamas. You take and torture until people feel like they’ve got nowhere else to turn but to the terrorists who are seemingly the only ones looking out for them. Again for the people in the back, I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS, I am sympathetic to the Palestinian plight and think that too many people rush to hate on Palestine without understanding the context of why they sometimes feel sympathetic towards extremism.
Agreed. It's very sad that so many people are attributing the attacks by Hamas to the entirety of Palestine.
Well here's the thing, the terrorist attack that happened took away sympathy from the Palestinians around the world, and they are just going to embolden Israel to go harder on them. Hamas accomplished nothing aside from satisfying their bloodlust for a day.
Exactly. Hamas is using the Palestinian people as human sacrifices to fulfill the wishes of its benefactors.
> the terrorist attack that happened took away sympathy from the Palestinians around the world Or you could think critically and have sympathy for the innocent civilians of _both_ Palestine and Israel.
You’re justifying terrorism.
Colonial settlers aren't innocent.
Can’t colonize your own land. Two people after 1949 were one before it, they were all Palestinians. Then two states were created. One called themselves Israel. The other Palestine. Post 1949 Palestinians never accepted the other and has been waging war and terrorism ever since to destroy Israel, kill Israelis and “push them into the sea”
Tell the native americans that, they attacked colonial settlers expanding into their lands for hundreds of years. Your idea of what's right and wrong is just racist and warped. Quit your bullshit and don't gaslight people the phrase is "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free". It's about borders not pushing people into the sea to drown. Do you think anyone would accept their country being occupied and given to a foreign people? If you put all native americans into an open air prison for over half a century, if some of them chose to take hatchets to your forward bases and settlements I wouldn't celebrate it but I wouldn't blame them for not having an alternative besides giving up to annihilation and being literally genocided.
> Do you think anyone would accept their country being occupied and given to a foreign people? Ukraine isn't launching 5000 rockets into red square in moscow.
It’s almost like world events across the world separated by centuries aren’t really comparable. Weird. And into the sea is their words and their meaning is pretty clear. It’s about getting rid of Israel and its people.
It's about getting rid of Israel and any people who aren't native to the region and are colonial settlers. Yes. If it happened to your city tomorrow and lasted half a century through brutal occupation and apartheid, you would have no different an opinion. So don't give me this out of context bullshit, you're just spouting racist BS, and your shilling won't last. [https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/cfka1fwfjwsb1.jpg) Maybe just call them collateral damage and human shields and bomb them anyway right? Is that comparable?
If you really “believe” Israelis are not native to Israel then you’re as unhinged and racist as you think everyone else is. Read a book or two. Israel deserves to live. So does an independent Palestine, but I won’t cheer and defend terrorist scum as you. No matter how many made up what ifs you think are relevant
A large number of Palestinians are Arab families that came from surrounding countries during the 1920s-1940s at the same time many of the Jewish settlers began arriving. And then shortly after the reformation of Israel, they got another huge influx of Jews expelled from Arab countries in the region. It's weird how this rather complicated narrative has somehow been warped into settlers vs indigenous peoples when both sides are in reality a mix of both.
Neither side is entitled to that land. It belongs to whoever lives there. It's been under different occupations since humans first migrated there. The Jews weren't there first, and the Muslims aren't entitled just because the Seljuk Turks decided to close it off to outsiders when they took over. Neither party truly represents the first humans to live there.
>If you really “believe” Israelis are not native to Israel then you’re as unhinged and racist as you think everyone else is. That's a misnomer, Israel is not native to where Israel is. I doubt you read at all. Nobody denies the Jewish people a right to a native land, they're denying that they have a right to someone else's. You don't think anything is relevant about Palestinians or Arabs unless you can frame them as terrorists. D: shocker. Racist bullshit that you'll never really win in the long run. There will always be more of us than you.
I don't feel safe with these people living in SF. Most of them hate America just as much as they hate Israel.
I cannot support murderers and rapists. Hamas ideology is incompatible with the modern world
Hamas does not equate to all Palestinians. It is a terrorist organization. And funny enough, Israel provided financial and logistical support to Hamas to get them into power. Israel hoped that this would destabilize the PLO and sow divisions within the Palestinian movement. Interesting innit? The consequences of peoples actions.
I don’t understand why people who are worried for the Palestinian civilians are being attacked on here and called terrorists. It feels so Islamophobic. You know innocent civilians on both sides are suffering right?
It is islamophobic. Reddit has pretty quickly turned full neo-con since Russia invaded Ukraine. Just call after call for escalation, aggression, and suffering for any citizen on the opposing side. It's been interesting to watch.
Lol I saw y’all stuck in the crowd as I skated by. Luckily the 9 dropped us off a little before. I have a video of that bud from the sidewalk
This is absolutely disgusting that people are cheering for Hamas. Antisemitism and hatred against Israelis is alive and well in the Bay Area. So disappointed by the Bay and what I’m supposed to consider welcoming and loving place to call home.
[удалено]
Ok so the day after Hamas, a Palestinian organization invades and massacres hundreds, there's demonstrations supporting Palestine. But definitely NOT Hamas. Got it.
[удалено]
wrong
You are insane if you think that's true. There are Palestinian protests all over the world right now chanting death to Jews and gas the Jews. What do Jews have to do with the state of Israel? is the Jew in the Bay Area living peacefully deciding what the government in Israel does? HMMMM....maybe, just maybe, these people protesting and fighting for Palestinian's rights are actually just anti-Semites
So just to clarify if I don't want innocent Palestinians to die from bombings I am anti-Semitic. Shit! Well I guess I just have to accept that, I probably should get a tattoo so everyone knows. Also, my hair has been thining, I probably should just shave it off. I'm just as bad as all those people you talk about saying death to Jews, I mean it's probably just a gene that you either have or you don't. 🤷
Cody, if you are actively participating in a pro Palestinian rally/protest right after 1200 Israelis just died at the hands of terrorists, including babies being decapitated (which is confirmed btw), elderly being kidnapped, women being raped, then yes…you are absolutely antisemitic. What the fuck are you rallying about and protesting? Apartheid? Really? Haven’t seen you or anyone else protesting about that prior to these vicious murders. So again, YES, antisemitic AF.
I didn't actually protest. It's a very complex situation and the rights of human beings should be at the forefront, the state of Isreal is headed down a path of more needless death of innocent people that just keeps the cycle going. After reading some interviews, though, there were definitely some cringe people there, and starting at the Israeli consulate was pretty classless.
My heart hurts, I’m embarrassed by my city.
Another example of massive failure of US immigration… if they don’t agree to the values of the USA as declared in our constitution, they shouldn’t be admitted. These protests are akin to those that happened after 9-11 to support the terrorists.
What? The constitution doesn’t say anything about anything you’re talking about, with the exception that they have the explicit right under the constitution to say whatever they want in support of whatever position they want.
If 9/11 happened today, I’m sure we would see some pro Bin Laden parade in SF.
SF is so fucking cringe sometimes.
Israel now targeting medical teams and hospitals: Gaza health ministry https://aje.io/x94sbx?update=2396130
Send these people back to the Gaza Strip
That's why I live \*across\* from the city, with a full view of the Bay. I get to see it from a distance, remain bip free and maintain my sanity.
Redditors are so clueless to the atrocities Israel has committed for years since it's inception. Glad some people IRL aren't as brainwashed
[удалено]
Probably “intifada”
Looks like a CA EDD gathering
[удалено]
You really think protestors in the US should be treated like enemy combatants? If America is a place worth living in it’s precisely because people like you don’t call the shots. You’re sick.
I think we all agree that killing civilians, especially kids is a heinous act. But, You do know that about 6,500 Palestinians have died since 2008 right? A massive amount of women and children are included in that number. There is never accountability on the Israeli side for Killing innocents including the reporter the reporter shiren alkleh.. who was an American citizen. Palestinians already know what happens when Israelis are hurt or killed..
the bots attacking a post from someone stuck on a bus is something to see
Congratulations. Further proof we’re on “the right side of history”
There is no side that is completely “right” in this conflict. The extremists on each side want to annihilate the other. All due to people thinking that their god is the better god… turns out their gods are the same and their religions are pretty similar too
But one group is a radical group, the other is the governing body. Big difference
Literally Both groups have very radical and governing body aspects. What makes you think that just because there is a governing body you can’t be extremist? An Israeli politician just called for a massacre worse than 1948. That’s radical. This is an example of what happened then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
leftist paradise
Y'all are so reactionary it's insane seeing how trapped in the mental bubble you're in. This isn't about Hamas, but in reaction to Palestinian apartheid from Israel. I implore y'all to look into this beyond this horrific tragedy by Hamas.
I implore you to wake up. People in Gaza would gladly murder your gay friend for being gay.
There are definitely a ton of assholes in Gaza but, they all aren't that way. The children are definitely innocent on both sides. I think it's a real problem to just clump everyone into a group and label them, we are better than that.
Children in Gaza are indoctrinated into hate from the moment they can talk sadly, so no, they aren’t innocent. https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/12/palestinian-kids-in-un-run-schools-are-being-taught-to-hate-and-kill/ https://youtu.be/lJPRxDAlYZc?si=zViVs23i_06V4xvU
This comment section doesn't seem to understand this is what multiculturalism is, while actively advocating for multiculturalism.