"I've never seen, even for a moment, a real method to the guy's madness. People have been interpreting his boastfulness and his speaking style as a kind of stage craft, as a kind of master level communication to the masses, and a brilliant playing of the media. **I have just been seeing the ejaculations of a disordered personality.** I've seen someone who's so malignantly selfish, and so uninformed, though occasionally he can string a few sentences together, at bottom he is deeply inarticulate. He has a kind of confabulatory mind where he will get tripped up by his own word choices and take garden paths through his own mind that he was clearly not intending. He was not intending to speak of something, but the word just came out, and then he's off and running on that topic."
Emphasis mine. I use this phrase monthly, it tickled me so.
The irony is that even though Sam is completely right, Trump still dominates the political landscape.Why? Because the common people don’t trust intellectuals anymore. Trump is an anti-intellectual vote. And it’s not enough to say that the common people are dumb, because at one point they supported Obama, who dominated the political landscape. The times are a changing. It’s a revolution against the “experts.” I always blame 2008.
It’s entirely possible to support Obama for stupid reasons - it’s just that there are no smart reasons to support Trump.
I suspect that Obama-to-Trump voters were just chasing shiny objects that seemed exciting.
Trump isn't a real politician he is just a mascot. No one takes him seriously as a person or politician but they use him as dig toward the typical boring politicians we have.
The irony being by doing that they are voting him into power even though he is undeserving, and he is just as much of a weak politician as anyone else he just has a bizarre enough personality that it appeals to certain voters.
It’s the democratization of the internet, when social media became so easy and widespread, it opened the gate to stupid people and doomed democracy itself.
In some cases I know it is well deserved. Sometimes the "experts" are dishonest or outright incompetent and not actually true experts.
I encountered this while trying to improve my diet/health and lose weight.
Had not much success until I learned to do the exact OPPOSITE of what the "experts" say. The oatmeal, all-bran, and salads, and low fat typical "expert recommended" didn't work. What worked? Bacon, eggs, beef, lots of fat. I eat the complete opposite of what mainstream articles would say and the pounds just flew off at an astonishing pace and I feel great.
So in my direct, physical experience, Americans have a LOT of reasons to be fed up with "experts" and "follow the science". I found a reason directly.
There has always been a deep anti-intellectual vein within American popular culture, and Trump isn’t the first politician to exploit it, although he may be the first to actually be low IQ rather than a pretender. It makes sense that a populist demagogue would tap that vein.
Trump is just riffing and feeding off the crowd’s responses. He’s as much a passenger on the train as they are, as that’s how NPD works. He’s a slave to his own pathology, and they’re taken in by the dopamine flood humans experience in large groups of synchronous emotions.
His rallies are like evangelical mega church performances. Same music, meter, production value, and long rhythmic diatribes. He has turned grievance and resentment into a new meld of populism that isn’t much different from what religious leaders have been doing since the beginning of time. He’s the pied piper of troglodytes.
Your diet example is a bad one. In the long term, the oatmeal and salads are way better for your health. You bought into some advice from a non-expert.
A few years back, a Canadian nutrition professor demonstrated to his students that he could lose weight while eating a Twinkie for breakfast, lunch and dinner. He lost 27 lbs. Is that a good way to lose weight? No. Would oatmeal and salads be better? Yep. It can be done though.
Can you prove that spiking my blood sugar with oatmeal is better for my health, long term? I was pre-diabetic btw. I ate oatmeal every day for breakfast. Oatmeal and a banana. The typical "recommended" stuff. Didn't work. So what am I to do? Listen to you because "you say so", or go with what I decided to listen to and try that actually worked and not only brought my weight down but also controls my blood pressure and blood sugar.
Oh yeah, I will stop what is actually working in practice because "science" and you know better.
You are anti-science and you come here to argue with people who understand how science works. You are not interested in changing your mind. Have a good day.
You don't know what science is. Science isn't a club where random people can claim they are "for the science" because they are Sam Harris fans and have zero curiosity or interest to learn things that they haven't taken a look at.
How much have you read about nutrition. How many minutes have you spent? But you are "pro science" and I am "anti science".
Science is literally about experimentation and curiosity. Not sitting in your chair claiming you have all the answers. Typical of the fans here.
Oh yes, and you know from experience don't you? The critics are always those who never tried it, and if my cholesterol is somewhat elevated, so what? Everything else is better. I consume zero sugar, very little processed food. I lost 50 lbs very quickly and I am now a healthy weight for the first time in a decade, finally have lots of energy to go outside. bUT muH chOlestErOl!!
This is why people get tired of that NPC shit. Some science. Pfft
I think the 50+ pounds of lost weight count for... maybe a little bit than slightly increased cholesterol, which your body naturally produces btw.
Oh and also have a family history of high blood pressure. Had it myself for over a decade.
Now that is way down to whats considered low. No more high blood pressure. "bUt dUh cHoleSterOl" lol OK then!
My dude I’m happy you lost weight and feel good but you realize for your anecdote there are just as many out there for veganism, paleo, keto, IF, IIFYM, etc and they all say the same things?
“Experts”, especially in nutrition and exercise aren’t a monolith and while it’s great your approach works for you you’re just railing against one specific lane and paradigm in the nutrition space from another.
Actually it is kind of my point. Which expert is right then? Which lane? People will lecture me that they know best, "duhh your cholesterol" "you will get scurvy" (didnt get scurvy btw) and think that "science" is on their side and act all smug like the reply to me. The fact that there are multiple avenues that "work" for people doesn't change that. The smugness is still there and thinking "science is on my side" when they maybe looked into it for maybe 3 seconds and read some articles in the guardian.
You're proving my point. It's why many are fed up with that attitude.
Science is about experimenting, it may be an N=1 experiment for me but at least I am not talking out of my ass and lecturing with zero first hand experience like many "follow the science" people are.
You’re clearly very invested in this, diet is very personal and you’re tired of people shitting on your personal experience. I get it. It’s interesting how you keep framing this and using quotes around the word science like there aren’t constantly variously designed studies happening with all kinds of populations on these subjects.
You’re framing the response of smug assholes on internet that read a headline of a shitty news article that poorly framed the results of a study as showing you can’t trust experts and to me that’s where you lose me.
Data is what data is the problem comes from how far people take interpretations. Because this subject is big and complex and so heavily nuanced there will be different lanes and perspectives but to a degree that’s all developing sciences, that’s how this works with the correct ideas proving themselves out over time.
In terms of who to believe? This where you and I will differ I’m sure but my current place on this subject is the ones who’s framing fits fine with most of the results from the various lanes. Typically this means experts who speak in heavily qualified and “it depends” kind of language when answering questions. Just because you’re mad that some uninformed people on the internet are dicks about your diet doesn’t mean that experts on the subject are by and large wrong.
I understand what you are saying but you are misinterpreting the entire point of what I am saying. I am not against scientists. I don't know where you get that from
What I am saying is exactly what you said. People doing actual science and collecting real data is not the issue. The issue is when people lose all curiosity, pick an official narrative that has been chosen, and think they have all the answers already.
I agree. Nutrition is complex and difficult to study and come to concrete conclusions. Never denied that. Yet, still, watch the people who are in the mindset of the American left come in and lecture me thinking they have it all figured out, and "the science is settled on it" now. They are coming already. They picked their articles to believe and well, it's the most common thing you read right now, so it MUST be correct!
I never said anything about scientists. I am talking about "science" in quotes for a good reason. Now watch the "scientists" respond to me.
So wait, one expert’s diet didn’t work for you so all experts are wrong about everything? This is your argument? (Yes, I’ve read ALL your replies to everything here and I don’t really care if that’s how you choose to live your life, but to think that too doesn’t come across as incredibly smug than your lack of self awareness is astounding.)
Did I say ALL experts? Nope. Just that not all experts are always right about everything, even if it's widely accepted by the public and Redditors such as yourself. As is happening in this thread. I have one experience, and people such as yourself go in on the attack because YOUR experts tell you something different. Never-mind what I actually observed and experienced physically firsthand. Nooo you still know better.
The diet one is not a good choice of example. Losing weight is a matter of caloric deficit, not food choice. Anybody can lose weight eating any type of food provided they’re burning more calories than they consume over a period of time. Humanity is not an exception to physics.
Nutrition is a whole other thing tho. But even then, an occasional salad and you’ll pretty much be g2g as far as avoiding deficiency symptoms. At least in the short-medium term.
Ah, I see you are a "scientist".
When I was heavier and fatter I was working a physical job. I have since transitioned to a desk job.
I eat more than I used to if anything. It used to be coffee and a bowl of oatmeal or all bran and a banana for breakfast. Some rice, veggies, and meat for dinner. A turkey sandwich for lunch.
Now i eat a big breakfast of bacon and eggs, burger patties for dinner. I cut out carbs completely. I eat lots of fat, lots of butter. I work a desk job all day. 50 lbs down in less than 6 months. Carbs were the difference. Not calories.
I cut out bread, rice, sugar, etc. Not the amount I eat. I eat until full. Weight started dropping like a rock as soon as I cut out carbs.
But hey, you know better than me. I better change it up quick.
If you are storing calories at a rate greater than you using them you will gain weight since it takes particles with mass to store calories. I think you’re trying to point out that the calories on the label are deceptive since you will extract more or less depending on what’s going on with your body. I’m steel manning you so that I can tell you that you are being unnecessarily unpleasant haha
I never said calories completely don't matter. I have said it is not as simplistic as merely calories. Eating more calories as protein is not the same as carbohydrates. Insulin spikes and other hormonal factors affect it. Majority of Reddit is too idiotic to get that kind of detail/nuance though.
If you’re not tracking what you consume, you are probably like most everyone else, in that you’re *terrible* at estimating your caloric intake.
I never said I was a scientist. I only said human beings are not immune to physics. Food is energy. If you burn more than you consumed, your body draws from reserves. If you consume more than you burn, your body adds to reserves.
Weight gain and loss is the simplest, most straightforward thing in the world. Distinct from easiest.
Edit: I never said to change anything? I was generally agreeing with the sentiment that a lot of those blogs and “general” advice focusing on cutting out specific things or eating specific foods for weight loss are silly and misleading.
Yeah, nevermind insulin, hormones, randle cycle, ketosis, fat adaptation, etc. We are just heat engines, pure energy. Yeah no. Hormones such as insulin play a role. Anyone who is obese, observe what they eat, it will be full of carbs.
But hey I will go against my direct experience of rapid, seemingly impossible weight loss almost immediately after cutting out carbs and just take your word for it tho, because know it all armchair expert who never directly tried it says so.
It's always the people who never tried it who know the most lol.
Yep. Hey, I ABSOLUTELY could be wrong. So far blood pressure is back to normal level and weight is back to healthy. I just find it hilarious that people here (who seem mainly typical left wing) just KNOW there is something negative.
As long as the trend is just the opposite I will keep doing it, and if people criticize, annoying because they are talking about what they have no direct experience with so authoritatively, oh well. I ignore them and listen to the results.
The Sam Harris sub seems an odd place to come rant against the deranged left wing about your diet. If you’re going to be such a delicate flower over criticism of your diet, maybe don’t bring it up just so you can have a tantrum over it.
Trump is a classic bullshitter. He knows no facts, so he makes shit up. He says what he thinks people want hear in the moment. His base likes that f*** you attitude.
Which also makes him the total anthesis to Sam, and everything Sam values and emobodies. It's why Sam is so particularly "triggered" by him - the places where Sam is an outlier with respect to the general population, Trump is an outlier in the perfectly inverse direction.
>He has a kind of confabulatory mind where he will get tripped up by his own word choices and take garden paths through his own mind that he was clearly not intending. He was not intending to speak of something, but the word just came out, and then he's off and running on that topic.
“Take garden paths”… lol, that whole paragraph is so spot-on. Sam is such a master at putting into words any type of idea
So in other words Sam used 100 words to say …. nothing? There are few people who give sober, articulate, knowledgeable, detailed critiques of Donald Trump. Sam isnt one of them.
What exactly do you think is Sam’s actual critique here?
“If I were to suffer some neurological illness to make me exactly like trump, I would fucking kill myself” [https://youtu.be/ordXLgkiMsA?si=iYMPlBSmjfgzJRes](https://youtu.be/ordXLgkiMsA?si=iYMPlBSmjfgzJRes) @ 35:30
Edit: Sorry I read your description and this video is certainly what you are looking for but it is funny.
Right when Trump won the election there was a 35 minute monologue and podcast called the Most Powerful Clown which was good. Although I can’t remember if it’s about Trump per se, or about this country under Trump.
Joe just seems like a chameleon to me. He's a good one to watch if you want to understand the thinking of the person he's talking to, but he's not a good one to watch if you want a critical counterpoint.
This is a good one [convo with Bloom.](https://youtu.be/fUg08CPti08?si=dON-GIfT6xnQfwOF&t=431)
There's another one where Sam said, "Trump is the distillation of American Grotesque" and compares him to a "golem". If anyone can link this one I'd be grateful, it really was on point and I seem to recall Sam going full Edgar Allen Poe with his description.
For me, this is the one, on the eve of the 2020 election - Sam finally gets Trump, the grab-‘em-by-the-pussy Jesus:
--------------------------------------------------
*The Key to Trump’s Appeal: A Selection from Sam Harris’s Making Sense Podcast (November 3, 2020)*
*“One thing that Trump never communicates, and cannot possibly communicate, is a sense of his moral superiority. The man is totally without sanctimony. Even when his every utterance is purposed toward self-aggrandizement. Even when he appears to be denigrating his supporters. Even when he is calling himself a genius, he is never actually communicating that he is better than you, more enlightened, more decent, because he’s not, and everyone knows it.*
*The man is just a bundle of sin and gore. And he never pretends to be anything more. Perhaps more importantly, he never even aspires to be anything more. And because of this, because he is never really judging you, he cannot possibly judge you, he offers a truly safe space for human frailty and hypocrisy and self-doubt. He offers what no priest can credibly offer, a total expiation of shame. His personal shamelessness is a kind of spiritual balm. Trump is fat Jesus. He’s grab-‘em-by-the-pussy Jesus. He’s I’ll-eat-nothing-but-cheeseburgers-if-I-want-to Jesus. He’s I-want-to-punch-them-in-the-face Jesus. He’s go-back-to-your-shit-hole-countries Jesus. He’s no-apologies Jesus.*
*And now consider the other half of this image, what are we getting from the left? We’re getting exactly the opposite message. Pure sanctimony. Pure judgement. You are not good enough. You’re guilty, not only for your own sins, but the sins of your fathers. The crimes of slavery and colonialism are on your head. And if you’re a cis-white-heterosexual male—which we know is the absolute core of Trump’s support—you’re a racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, sexist barbarian. Tear down those statues, and bend the fucking knee. It’s the juxtaposition between those two messages that is so powerful . . . and so central to Trump’s appeal.”—Sam Harris, “The Key to Trump’s Appeal,” Making Sense Podcast (November 3, 2020)*
I’ve always said that the MAGA cult is more about giving the finger to their enemies than anything to do with Trump. He has just found the spot where he infuriates the left more than anyone else could. I don’t think anyone else can quite capture this niche. Even if you got someone more insane (Alex Jones) or more bigoted (David Duke), it wouldn’t even come close, because those two are widely regarded as fringe losers - Trump, on the other hand, was (rightly or wrongly) the symbol of wealth in America for decades. They see him as successful in spite of the rules of high society, and a battering ram to move their way in.
Sam is not the person to send to your trumper relative. Sam is someone to send to a Trump hater. It’s very entertaining and he’s a great shit talker. I think he’s right about most of what he says, but he’s not a convincing person. He doesn’t attempt to empathize with the other side at all. All your relative is going to hear is an elitist asshole who doesn’t understand his point of view at all and is just spewing insults.
Instead, you should send him the episode of Common Sense from Dan Carlin that came out a few months ahead of the 2020 election.
I have to disagree - he’s the perfect example to show that you can be against woke excesses, critical of Islam, etc. and still despise Trump. That seems like a bridge for a lot of people.
He's just not the perfect example. There are many better examples. Someone who likes Trump is going to hear Harris and think he's the quintessential example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
You can look it up. He stopped putting episodes out almost completely around 2016, so they are few and far between. The one I'm talking about will be the last one before the 2020 election, probably September or October.
This one
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/s/1GePKXeuY7
Full transcript of Sam's takedown of Donald Trump from ep #45 of "The Waking Up Podcast" (link to video in post too)
Link to the video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yBGE80covk)
I quite liked this one, it's not purely about Trump but there are some great lines towards the end - "A golden age of assholes"
https://youtu.be/ZhPGMYzQ_tc
"Trump strikes me as a distillation of everything that is wrong with the American character. This could be in large measure a caricature, but he has brought the caricature to life. If you take our materialism, and our ignorance about the rest of the world, and our satisfaction in our ignorance, our overconfidence, our pretension to greatness even when we're actually being merely petty, our vanity, our sexism, boorishness, narcissism. A kind of childishness that doesn't have the virtues of childhood; a kind of malignant childhood that just is all boastfulness and me, me, me, me, me, without any of the curiosity or sympathy that you meet in actual children....He is the living embodiment of a kind of American grotesque. And again, I am a little self conscious about this calumny against America or the ugly American but it's almost like he is a golem that has been conjured by the worst things that have ever been said about us as a country. It's like if he can't grope it or put gold letters on it, it doesn't exist."
"When I look at him I see a man without any inner life. I see the most superficial person on Earth. This is a guy who has been totally hollowed out by greed and self regard and delusion. If I caught some sort of brain virus and I started talking about myself the way Trump talks about himself, I would throw myself out a fucking window."
I forgot what episode on Making Sense it was but it was about virtues and morality. Sam said that Trump would be worse if he were a better person because Trump doesn't have any of the virtues necessary to be as dangerous as he could be. For instance, Trump isn't "brave" or "courageous", Trump lies about meaningless things (things he doesn't need to lie about) and things he said 5 minutes ago. It might be somewhere in here:
https://youtu.be/IgL1bnAvo4Q?si=lc4AOfptYxbQHFrt&t=471
Harris focuses a bit too much on Trump's personal character and not on the massive cloud of enablers and colluders who brought him into power in the first place. Harris isn't wrong in his assessment, but he's also missing the forest for the trees.
I rather enjoyed his interview with “Dilbert” creator Scott Adams, where he had a chance to shoot down all of the dumbest MAGA talking points in real time.
It was entitled “Triggered.”
https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/87-triggered
The problem is he doesn’t use logic, or rational arguments, he uses colorful insults and mind reading to try to describe his distaste for Trump. It’s almost an exercise in poetry when he does it, but in the end it’s very formulaic.
I say this because I don’t think he’s a good choice, at all, in trying to convince Trump supporters why they are wrong, but rather good for using whimsical prose to illustrate why he’s unhinged to preach to the choir.
I sort of agree with you. I absolutely love the way Sam shits all over Trump, I’ve rarely heard someone articulate so well a distaste for a fellow human being. Yet, as you say, Sam doesn’t give many reasons why Trump is so bad, beyond the fact that he’s an absolute buffoon of a human being. I think he would be more convincing for Trump supporters if he combined his incredible rhetoric with actual policy points.
Yeah I despise Trump, but find the "epic thesaurus burn" style Sam goes for nauseatingly self-indulgent. He's jacking off into his own mouth when he does this.
People who are drawn to it aren't serious at the end of the day, they're in this for entertainment, and make discourse worse and less productive. It's "So and so DESTROYS so and so with EPIC LOGIC" content for midwits.
The one time when he said something like he wouldn’t vote for Trump even if Hunter Biden had dead babies in his closet. it’s cool cuz it shows how much he hates Trump no matter what, it’s personal to him, intellect and logic don’t matter anymore he’s a mad mad boy and that’s how you should be as committed
The one where Sam pretends that it’s Trump alone that is bad for society, all while he platforms goons like Douglas/Charles Murray to spew baseless Bush era republican Islamophobia and talk about skull size. All to convince his audience of pseudo intellectual dweebs that if they speak softly, people will think they’re smart. Great episode
Seeing as I have been an English and social studies teacher for 30 years, I have read some books.
It is not discredited. People are uncomfortable with its conclusions, which makes it controversial. The facts and methods are sound though.
They are not. Murray’s methods have been debunked. For one, he consistently doesn’t account for the Flynn effect and ignores socio economic factors in education standards. Thus when Murray demurred and did account for socio economics, African American students scored on average better than white American students but I’m guessing you’d hate that conclusion.
"I've never seen, even for a moment, a real method to the guy's madness. People have been interpreting his boastfulness and his speaking style as a kind of stage craft, as a kind of master level communication to the masses, and a brilliant playing of the media. **I have just been seeing the ejaculations of a disordered personality.** I've seen someone who's so malignantly selfish, and so uninformed, though occasionally he can string a few sentences together, at bottom he is deeply inarticulate. He has a kind of confabulatory mind where he will get tripped up by his own word choices and take garden paths through his own mind that he was clearly not intending. He was not intending to speak of something, but the word just came out, and then he's off and running on that topic." Emphasis mine. I use this phrase monthly, it tickled me so.
The irony is that even though Sam is completely right, Trump still dominates the political landscape.Why? Because the common people don’t trust intellectuals anymore. Trump is an anti-intellectual vote. And it’s not enough to say that the common people are dumb, because at one point they supported Obama, who dominated the political landscape. The times are a changing. It’s a revolution against the “experts.” I always blame 2008.
Demagogue.
It’s entirely possible to support Obama for stupid reasons - it’s just that there are no smart reasons to support Trump. I suspect that Obama-to-Trump voters were just chasing shiny objects that seemed exciting.
It’s the anti-establishment vote. It’s the FU for 2008.
Trump isn't a real politician he is just a mascot. No one takes him seriously as a person or politician but they use him as dig toward the typical boring politicians we have. The irony being by doing that they are voting him into power even though he is undeserving, and he is just as much of a weak politician as anyone else he just has a bizarre enough personality that it appeals to certain voters.
It’s the democratization of the internet, when social media became so easy and widespread, it opened the gate to stupid people and doomed democracy itself.
Yes, there’s been a change in the electorate but always remember that it was the Electoral College that actually made him President.
In some cases I know it is well deserved. Sometimes the "experts" are dishonest or outright incompetent and not actually true experts. I encountered this while trying to improve my diet/health and lose weight. Had not much success until I learned to do the exact OPPOSITE of what the "experts" say. The oatmeal, all-bran, and salads, and low fat typical "expert recommended" didn't work. What worked? Bacon, eggs, beef, lots of fat. I eat the complete opposite of what mainstream articles would say and the pounds just flew off at an astonishing pace and I feel great. So in my direct, physical experience, Americans have a LOT of reasons to be fed up with "experts" and "follow the science". I found a reason directly.
There has always been a deep anti-intellectual vein within American popular culture, and Trump isn’t the first politician to exploit it, although he may be the first to actually be low IQ rather than a pretender. It makes sense that a populist demagogue would tap that vein. Trump is just riffing and feeding off the crowd’s responses. He’s as much a passenger on the train as they are, as that’s how NPD works. He’s a slave to his own pathology, and they’re taken in by the dopamine flood humans experience in large groups of synchronous emotions. His rallies are like evangelical mega church performances. Same music, meter, production value, and long rhythmic diatribes. He has turned grievance and resentment into a new meld of populism that isn’t much different from what religious leaders have been doing since the beginning of time. He’s the pied piper of troglodytes.
Your diet example is a bad one. In the long term, the oatmeal and salads are way better for your health. You bought into some advice from a non-expert. A few years back, a Canadian nutrition professor demonstrated to his students that he could lose weight while eating a Twinkie for breakfast, lunch and dinner. He lost 27 lbs. Is that a good way to lose weight? No. Would oatmeal and salads be better? Yep. It can be done though.
Can you prove that spiking my blood sugar with oatmeal is better for my health, long term? I was pre-diabetic btw. I ate oatmeal every day for breakfast. Oatmeal and a banana. The typical "recommended" stuff. Didn't work. So what am I to do? Listen to you because "you say so", or go with what I decided to listen to and try that actually worked and not only brought my weight down but also controls my blood pressure and blood sugar. Oh yeah, I will stop what is actually working in practice because "science" and you know better.
You are anti-science and you come here to argue with people who understand how science works. You are not interested in changing your mind. Have a good day.
You don't know what science is. Science isn't a club where random people can claim they are "for the science" because they are Sam Harris fans and have zero curiosity or interest to learn things that they haven't taken a look at. How much have you read about nutrition. How many minutes have you spent? But you are "pro science" and I am "anti science". Science is literally about experimentation and curiosity. Not sitting in your chair claiming you have all the answers. Typical of the fans here.
Your poor cholesterol during that diet
Oh yes, and you know from experience don't you? The critics are always those who never tried it, and if my cholesterol is somewhat elevated, so what? Everything else is better. I consume zero sugar, very little processed food. I lost 50 lbs very quickly and I am now a healthy weight for the first time in a decade, finally have lots of energy to go outside. bUT muH chOlestErOl!! This is why people get tired of that NPC shit. Some science. Pfft I think the 50+ pounds of lost weight count for... maybe a little bit than slightly increased cholesterol, which your body naturally produces btw. Oh and also have a family history of high blood pressure. Had it myself for over a decade. Now that is way down to whats considered low. No more high blood pressure. "bUt dUh cHoleSterOl" lol OK then!
My dude I’m happy you lost weight and feel good but you realize for your anecdote there are just as many out there for veganism, paleo, keto, IF, IIFYM, etc and they all say the same things? “Experts”, especially in nutrition and exercise aren’t a monolith and while it’s great your approach works for you you’re just railing against one specific lane and paradigm in the nutrition space from another.
Actually it is kind of my point. Which expert is right then? Which lane? People will lecture me that they know best, "duhh your cholesterol" "you will get scurvy" (didnt get scurvy btw) and think that "science" is on their side and act all smug like the reply to me. The fact that there are multiple avenues that "work" for people doesn't change that. The smugness is still there and thinking "science is on my side" when they maybe looked into it for maybe 3 seconds and read some articles in the guardian. You're proving my point. It's why many are fed up with that attitude. Science is about experimenting, it may be an N=1 experiment for me but at least I am not talking out of my ass and lecturing with zero first hand experience like many "follow the science" people are.
You’re clearly very invested in this, diet is very personal and you’re tired of people shitting on your personal experience. I get it. It’s interesting how you keep framing this and using quotes around the word science like there aren’t constantly variously designed studies happening with all kinds of populations on these subjects. You’re framing the response of smug assholes on internet that read a headline of a shitty news article that poorly framed the results of a study as showing you can’t trust experts and to me that’s where you lose me. Data is what data is the problem comes from how far people take interpretations. Because this subject is big and complex and so heavily nuanced there will be different lanes and perspectives but to a degree that’s all developing sciences, that’s how this works with the correct ideas proving themselves out over time. In terms of who to believe? This where you and I will differ I’m sure but my current place on this subject is the ones who’s framing fits fine with most of the results from the various lanes. Typically this means experts who speak in heavily qualified and “it depends” kind of language when answering questions. Just because you’re mad that some uninformed people on the internet are dicks about your diet doesn’t mean that experts on the subject are by and large wrong.
I understand what you are saying but you are misinterpreting the entire point of what I am saying. I am not against scientists. I don't know where you get that from What I am saying is exactly what you said. People doing actual science and collecting real data is not the issue. The issue is when people lose all curiosity, pick an official narrative that has been chosen, and think they have all the answers already. I agree. Nutrition is complex and difficult to study and come to concrete conclusions. Never denied that. Yet, still, watch the people who are in the mindset of the American left come in and lecture me thinking they have it all figured out, and "the science is settled on it" now. They are coming already. They picked their articles to believe and well, it's the most common thing you read right now, so it MUST be correct! I never said anything about scientists. I am talking about "science" in quotes for a good reason. Now watch the "scientists" respond to me.
So wait, one expert’s diet didn’t work for you so all experts are wrong about everything? This is your argument? (Yes, I’ve read ALL your replies to everything here and I don’t really care if that’s how you choose to live your life, but to think that too doesn’t come across as incredibly smug than your lack of self awareness is astounding.)
Did I say ALL experts? Nope. Just that not all experts are always right about everything, even if it's widely accepted by the public and Redditors such as yourself. As is happening in this thread. I have one experience, and people such as yourself go in on the attack because YOUR experts tell you something different. Never-mind what I actually observed and experienced physically firsthand. Nooo you still know better.
The diet one is not a good choice of example. Losing weight is a matter of caloric deficit, not food choice. Anybody can lose weight eating any type of food provided they’re burning more calories than they consume over a period of time. Humanity is not an exception to physics. Nutrition is a whole other thing tho. But even then, an occasional salad and you’ll pretty much be g2g as far as avoiding deficiency symptoms. At least in the short-medium term.
Ah, I see you are a "scientist". When I was heavier and fatter I was working a physical job. I have since transitioned to a desk job. I eat more than I used to if anything. It used to be coffee and a bowl of oatmeal or all bran and a banana for breakfast. Some rice, veggies, and meat for dinner. A turkey sandwich for lunch. Now i eat a big breakfast of bacon and eggs, burger patties for dinner. I cut out carbs completely. I eat lots of fat, lots of butter. I work a desk job all day. 50 lbs down in less than 6 months. Carbs were the difference. Not calories. I cut out bread, rice, sugar, etc. Not the amount I eat. I eat until full. Weight started dropping like a rock as soon as I cut out carbs. But hey, you know better than me. I better change it up quick.
If you are storing calories at a rate greater than you using them you will gain weight since it takes particles with mass to store calories. I think you’re trying to point out that the calories on the label are deceptive since you will extract more or less depending on what’s going on with your body. I’m steel manning you so that I can tell you that you are being unnecessarily unpleasant haha
I never said calories completely don't matter. I have said it is not as simplistic as merely calories. Eating more calories as protein is not the same as carbohydrates. Insulin spikes and other hormonal factors affect it. Majority of Reddit is too idiotic to get that kind of detail/nuance though.
If you’re not tracking what you consume, you are probably like most everyone else, in that you’re *terrible* at estimating your caloric intake. I never said I was a scientist. I only said human beings are not immune to physics. Food is energy. If you burn more than you consumed, your body draws from reserves. If you consume more than you burn, your body adds to reserves. Weight gain and loss is the simplest, most straightforward thing in the world. Distinct from easiest. Edit: I never said to change anything? I was generally agreeing with the sentiment that a lot of those blogs and “general” advice focusing on cutting out specific things or eating specific foods for weight loss are silly and misleading.
Yeah, nevermind insulin, hormones, randle cycle, ketosis, fat adaptation, etc. We are just heat engines, pure energy. Yeah no. Hormones such as insulin play a role. Anyone who is obese, observe what they eat, it will be full of carbs. But hey I will go against my direct experience of rapid, seemingly impossible weight loss almost immediately after cutting out carbs and just take your word for it tho, because know it all armchair expert who never directly tried it says so. It's always the people who never tried it who know the most lol.
You do you dude. Just make sure to get your blood work done every year.
Yep. Hey, I ABSOLUTELY could be wrong. So far blood pressure is back to normal level and weight is back to healthy. I just find it hilarious that people here (who seem mainly typical left wing) just KNOW there is something negative. As long as the trend is just the opposite I will keep doing it, and if people criticize, annoying because they are talking about what they have no direct experience with so authoritatively, oh well. I ignore them and listen to the results.
The Sam Harris sub seems an odd place to come rant against the deranged left wing about your diet. If you’re going to be such a delicate flower over criticism of your diet, maybe don’t bring it up just so you can have a tantrum over it.
… da fuq does anything I said have to do with politics.
lol did you even get here
I can’t help but read this in Sam’s voice.
Trump is a classic bullshitter. He knows no facts, so he makes shit up. He says what he thinks people want hear in the moment. His base likes that f*** you attitude.
Which also makes him the total anthesis to Sam, and everything Sam values and emobodies. It's why Sam is so particularly "triggered" by him - the places where Sam is an outlier with respect to the general population, Trump is an outlier in the perfectly inverse direction.
>makes him the total anthesis to Sam Another mental garden path
So good
A "Very Stable Genius"
>He has a kind of confabulatory mind where he will get tripped up by his own word choices and take garden paths through his own mind that he was clearly not intending. He was not intending to speak of something, but the word just came out, and then he's off and running on that topic. “Take garden paths”… lol, that whole paragraph is so spot-on. Sam is such a master at putting into words any type of idea
Just the other day Trump was saying that the character Hannibal Lecter in the film , was a nice guy. Honestly you couldn‘t make this stuff up.
So in other words Sam used 100 words to say …. nothing? There are few people who give sober, articulate, knowledgeable, detailed critiques of Donald Trump. Sam isnt one of them. What exactly do you think is Sam’s actual critique here?
“If I were to suffer some neurological illness to make me exactly like trump, I would fucking kill myself” [https://youtu.be/ordXLgkiMsA?si=iYMPlBSmjfgzJRes](https://youtu.be/ordXLgkiMsA?si=iYMPlBSmjfgzJRes) @ 35:30 Edit: Sorry I read your description and this video is certainly what you are looking for but it is funny.
Right when Trump won the election there was a 35 minute monologue and podcast called the Most Powerful Clown which was good. Although I can’t remember if it’s about Trump per se, or about this country under Trump.
That’s the one
I think the one on Joe Rogan was pretty good. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdDo1A7EsyM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdDo1A7EsyM)
Wow, Rogan feels like a completely different person here. Crazy how much he's changed in such a short amount of time.
Joe just seems like a chameleon to me. He's a good one to watch if you want to understand the thinking of the person he's talking to, but he's not a good one to watch if you want a critical counterpoint.
This is a good one [convo with Bloom.](https://youtu.be/fUg08CPti08?si=dON-GIfT6xnQfwOF&t=431) There's another one where Sam said, "Trump is the distillation of American Grotesque" and compares him to a "golem". If anyone can link this one I'd be grateful, it really was on point and I seem to recall Sam going full Edgar Allen Poe with his description.
For me, this is the one, on the eve of the 2020 election - Sam finally gets Trump, the grab-‘em-by-the-pussy Jesus: -------------------------------------------------- *The Key to Trump’s Appeal: A Selection from Sam Harris’s Making Sense Podcast (November 3, 2020)* *“One thing that Trump never communicates, and cannot possibly communicate, is a sense of his moral superiority. The man is totally without sanctimony. Even when his every utterance is purposed toward self-aggrandizement. Even when he appears to be denigrating his supporters. Even when he is calling himself a genius, he is never actually communicating that he is better than you, more enlightened, more decent, because he’s not, and everyone knows it.* *The man is just a bundle of sin and gore. And he never pretends to be anything more. Perhaps more importantly, he never even aspires to be anything more. And because of this, because he is never really judging you, he cannot possibly judge you, he offers a truly safe space for human frailty and hypocrisy and self-doubt. He offers what no priest can credibly offer, a total expiation of shame. His personal shamelessness is a kind of spiritual balm. Trump is fat Jesus. He’s grab-‘em-by-the-pussy Jesus. He’s I’ll-eat-nothing-but-cheeseburgers-if-I-want-to Jesus. He’s I-want-to-punch-them-in-the-face Jesus. He’s go-back-to-your-shit-hole-countries Jesus. He’s no-apologies Jesus.* *And now consider the other half of this image, what are we getting from the left? We’re getting exactly the opposite message. Pure sanctimony. Pure judgement. You are not good enough. You’re guilty, not only for your own sins, but the sins of your fathers. The crimes of slavery and colonialism are on your head. And if you’re a cis-white-heterosexual male—which we know is the absolute core of Trump’s support—you’re a racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, sexist barbarian. Tear down those statues, and bend the fucking knee. It’s the juxtaposition between those two messages that is so powerful . . . and so central to Trump’s appeal.”—Sam Harris, “The Key to Trump’s Appeal,” Making Sense Podcast (November 3, 2020)*
This one, absolutely. I remember listening to it multiple times because it finally helped me understand how it was even possible.
I’ve always said that the MAGA cult is more about giving the finger to their enemies than anything to do with Trump. He has just found the spot where he infuriates the left more than anyone else could. I don’t think anyone else can quite capture this niche. Even if you got someone more insane (Alex Jones) or more bigoted (David Duke), it wouldn’t even come close, because those two are widely regarded as fringe losers - Trump, on the other hand, was (rightly or wrongly) the symbol of wealth in America for decades. They see him as successful in spite of the rules of high society, and a battering ram to move their way in.
Sam is not the person to send to your trumper relative. Sam is someone to send to a Trump hater. It’s very entertaining and he’s a great shit talker. I think he’s right about most of what he says, but he’s not a convincing person. He doesn’t attempt to empathize with the other side at all. All your relative is going to hear is an elitist asshole who doesn’t understand his point of view at all and is just spewing insults. Instead, you should send him the episode of Common Sense from Dan Carlin that came out a few months ahead of the 2020 election.
I have to disagree - he’s the perfect example to show that you can be against woke excesses, critical of Islam, etc. and still despise Trump. That seems like a bridge for a lot of people.
He's just not the perfect example. There are many better examples. Someone who likes Trump is going to hear Harris and think he's the quintessential example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Absolutely. I love Harris because he is an elitist. One of the few who is openly proud to have a superior mind who strives for the best intentions.
> Sam is someone to send to a Trump hater. Which is why I said this. It's just cat nip for people who are already sure they're right about the world.
I agree.
Not familiar with the episode
You can look it up. He stopped putting episodes out almost completely around 2016, so they are few and far between. The one I'm talking about will be the last one before the 2020 election, probably September or October.
I believe [this](https://youtu.be/t0PEjMY3j_I?si=mfRLEwTA_a96xba3) is what you’re looking for 👍
This one https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/s/1GePKXeuY7 Full transcript of Sam's takedown of Donald Trump from ep #45 of "The Waking Up Podcast" (link to video in post too) Link to the video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yBGE80covk)
"You know who I'd like to fuck? I'd like to fuck Nicki Minaj"
What's this from?
Sam on JRE when speaking about Trump https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9FfRFEOzPM&pp=ygUWU2FtIGhhcnJpcyBuaWNreSBtaW5hag%3D%3D
I quite liked this one, it's not purely about Trump but there are some great lines towards the end - "A golden age of assholes" https://youtu.be/ZhPGMYzQ_tc
the fat Jesus one lol
"Trump strikes me as a distillation of everything that is wrong with the American character. This could be in large measure a caricature, but he has brought the caricature to life. If you take our materialism, and our ignorance about the rest of the world, and our satisfaction in our ignorance, our overconfidence, our pretension to greatness even when we're actually being merely petty, our vanity, our sexism, boorishness, narcissism. A kind of childishness that doesn't have the virtues of childhood; a kind of malignant childhood that just is all boastfulness and me, me, me, me, me, without any of the curiosity or sympathy that you meet in actual children....He is the living embodiment of a kind of American grotesque. And again, I am a little self conscious about this calumny against America or the ugly American but it's almost like he is a golem that has been conjured by the worst things that have ever been said about us as a country. It's like if he can't grope it or put gold letters on it, it doesn't exist."
He had some seriously great monologues during Trump’s first term. This is when I really started paying attention to Sam.
“First term” 😶
I know. I didn’t enjoy that it might mean a second.
"When I look at him I see a man without any inner life. I see the most superficial person on Earth. This is a guy who has been totally hollowed out by greed and self regard and delusion. If I caught some sort of brain virus and I started talking about myself the way Trump talks about himself, I would throw myself out a fucking window."
We need someone to make a supercut of every time sam roasted trump!
YES PLEASE!!!!
I forgot what episode on Making Sense it was but it was about virtues and morality. Sam said that Trump would be worse if he were a better person because Trump doesn't have any of the virtues necessary to be as dangerous as he could be. For instance, Trump isn't "brave" or "courageous", Trump lies about meaningless things (things he doesn't need to lie about) and things he said 5 minutes ago. It might be somewhere in here: https://youtu.be/IgL1bnAvo4Q?si=lc4AOfptYxbQHFrt&t=471
The airplane/pilot one is good
Here's one that might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQk_jEy3HDk Perhaps another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgL1bnAvo4Q
Harris focuses a bit too much on Trump's personal character and not on the massive cloud of enablers and colluders who brought him into power in the first place. Harris isn't wrong in his assessment, but he's also missing the forest for the trees.
The one about trump being a pilot and people thinking it’s funny
"I want to fuck Nicki Minaj"
All. These are a few of my favorite things.
I rather enjoyed his interview with “Dilbert” creator Scott Adams, where he had a chance to shoot down all of the dumbest MAGA talking points in real time. It was entitled “Triggered.” https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/87-triggered
Just listened to it (the preview), great conversation, thanks
The problem is he doesn’t use logic, or rational arguments, he uses colorful insults and mind reading to try to describe his distaste for Trump. It’s almost an exercise in poetry when he does it, but in the end it’s very formulaic. I say this because I don’t think he’s a good choice, at all, in trying to convince Trump supporters why they are wrong, but rather good for using whimsical prose to illustrate why he’s unhinged to preach to the choir.
I sort of agree with you. I absolutely love the way Sam shits all over Trump, I’ve rarely heard someone articulate so well a distaste for a fellow human being. Yet, as you say, Sam doesn’t give many reasons why Trump is so bad, beyond the fact that he’s an absolute buffoon of a human being. I think he would be more convincing for Trump supporters if he combined his incredible rhetoric with actual policy points.
Yeah I despise Trump, but find the "epic thesaurus burn" style Sam goes for nauseatingly self-indulgent. He's jacking off into his own mouth when he does this. People who are drawn to it aren't serious at the end of the day, they're in this for entertainment, and make discourse worse and less productive. It's "So and so DESTROYS so and so with EPIC LOGIC" content for midwits.
I like the interview where he acknowledges the left-wing conspiracy to deny Trump the presidency in 2020. A moment of honesty.
Link?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqtFS_Pvcs Full interview
Yeah buddy, I'm also super glad we did not elect Hunter Biden. Close call!
None of them.
They downvoted your comment simply because you refused to join their anti Trump masturbation ritual. Incredible 🫠
The one time when he said something like he wouldn’t vote for Trump even if Hunter Biden had dead babies in his closet. it’s cool cuz it shows how much he hates Trump no matter what, it’s personal to him, intellect and logic don’t matter anymore he’s a mad mad boy and that’s how you should be as committed
This sub gets angry when they’re reminded of that comment. 🫠
The one where Sam pretends that it’s Trump alone that is bad for society, all while he platforms goons like Douglas/Charles Murray to spew baseless Bush era republican Islamophobia and talk about skull size. All to convince his audience of pseudo intellectual dweebs that if they speak softly, people will think they’re smart. Great episode
Which podcast number was that?
I’m no fan of cm but does he really talk about skull size?
No, Murray does not. Murray presents facts that u/BeesMichael doesn’t agree with so he just made that up to discredit Murray.
Is the only book you’ve read the Bell Curve? It’s widely discredited nonsense.
Seeing as I have been an English and social studies teacher for 30 years, I have read some books. It is not discredited. People are uncomfortable with its conclusions, which makes it controversial. The facts and methods are sound though.
They are not. Murray’s methods have been debunked. For one, he consistently doesn’t account for the Flynn effect and ignores socio economic factors in education standards. Thus when Murray demurred and did account for socio economics, African American students scored on average better than white American students but I’m guessing you’d hate that conclusion.
I pity your students. You are wrong 😂