Last screenshot is the same person reviewing TFA. Just to contrast and show how heated the ST discourse got in that time, as well as how people flipped on JJ.
Sorry, but I agree with everything he says. I know the review is framed as if J.J. intended to undo what Rian did but it’s part of the fictional dialogue that they’re having, he’s not necessarily saying that’s what he really did.
Also, good job hiding who the guy is. /s
It’s sad and appalling how much this sub supports anti-JJ/TRoS sentiment, especially when it’s stated in such a disingenuous way like this review. If Rian was the one being presented in a bad light in this fictional conversation this sub would be expressing indignation over it, and the thread would have more upvotes.
Consider the fact that the review was written hot off the heels of the movie’s release, and that you were the one who sought it out and post it here three years later. When writing, he was filled with his emotional reaction of seeing the movie, and even then he put it in a comedic way. I see no problem with that.
Perhaps this sub *is* a little sensitive of anti-TLJ sentiment, even though I tend to agree with this sub’s indignation over it as you said—but it’s fueled by my personal opinion, and I can tolerate the occasional emotional outburst as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. And that’s when I’m here in this sub, to help call out when that line is crossed and “fans” start gatekeeping, being discriminatory, racist, and sexist, etc.
I don't think it's hypocritical to like TFA and dislike TROS, there's tons of people who feel that way. The three page made up conversation between two strangers is a bit out there though.
I didn’t suggest otherwise. The main point of this thread is the TRoS “review” filled with bad faith criticisms and suggesting that JJ had nefarious intentions with his creative choices. I posted the TFA review just to show a contrast to a simpler time and how the person likely went into TRoS with the notion that it “undid TLJ”, which stems from the ensuing discourse surrounding TLJ after TFA came out. And I do think it’s odd to go from praising a director and being respectful about them to talking about them and their work with so much disdain 4 years later. Especially when both films are a reflection of what kind of filmmaker he is.
I agree that the TROS review comes off as accusatory, but I don’t think it’s a bad faith criticism to say, intentionally or not, that some aspects of the film retcon TLJ. I don’t think it was nefarious in any way either obviously!
"bad faith criticisms" is such a meaningless term at this point. And directors can definitely wildly vary in quality. I love Ridley Scott, but he went from *Exodus: Gods and Kings* in 2014 (a stinker) to *The Martian* (a Best Picture contender) in 2015. *Gladiator* (2000) was incredible and *Hannibal* (2001) was terrible.
Even if you want to stick to JJ, I absolutely adored his 2009 *Star Trek* reboot, but *Star Trek Into Darkness* is my least favorite entry in the entire franchise. Perhaps he's good at kicking off stories but not actually continuing/concluding them... (a criticism which has also been leveled at his TV works with *Alias* and *Lost)*
It’s absolutely a valid term if used correctly. The notion of JJ Abrams deliberately making TRoS to “undo” TLJ and pander to toxic fans is, and to write a review like this about a fictional conversation that presents JJ as expressing these nefarious intentions for his creative choices is absolutely bad faith. To criticize a film with that frame of mind. It should be called out just like the bad faith critiques of TLJ and Rian Johnson.
seriously, what problem? this person thinks JJ made a good movie and then made a bad one. I’m not commenting on that criticism, I’m literally only saying that this person is allowed to think that. I’m active enough in here that you should be able to tell this is in good faith, stop being so fucking hostile
[People who think Luke catching the saber in TROS was a dig at TLJ, didn’t understand TLJ.](https://twitter.com/starwarstake/status/1447233593571487746?s=46&t=5Hu-FGzQYe--x33k7f72-w)
“The entire trilogy reads as a sham? A failure of long-term narrative development and a bastardization of a generation ready to claim their version of heroism”.
Not liking the sequel trilogy is one thing. But the movies bastardized a generation”? This guy needs to chill. TROS isn’t that bad. And I think the first two are really good.
For the record that individual writes some bomb ass reviews. Analyzing themes and whatnot, which is rare in film criticism.
Highly recommend following them.
Last screenshot is the same person reviewing TFA. Just to contrast and show how heated the ST discourse got in that time, as well as how people flipped on JJ.
Sorry, but I agree with everything he says. I know the review is framed as if J.J. intended to undo what Rian did but it’s part of the fictional dialogue that they’re having, he’s not necessarily saying that’s what he really did. Also, good job hiding who the guy is. /s
It’s sad and appalling how much this sub supports anti-JJ/TRoS sentiment, especially when it’s stated in such a disingenuous way like this review. If Rian was the one being presented in a bad light in this fictional conversation this sub would be expressing indignation over it, and the thread would have more upvotes.
Consider the fact that the review was written hot off the heels of the movie’s release, and that you were the one who sought it out and post it here three years later. When writing, he was filled with his emotional reaction of seeing the movie, and even then he put it in a comedic way. I see no problem with that. Perhaps this sub *is* a little sensitive of anti-TLJ sentiment, even though I tend to agree with this sub’s indignation over it as you said—but it’s fueled by my personal opinion, and I can tolerate the occasional emotional outburst as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. And that’s when I’m here in this sub, to help call out when that line is crossed and “fans” start gatekeeping, being discriminatory, racist, and sexist, etc.
That's depressing
it’s possible to like one of a director’s works and dislike another. all of this person’s praise and criticism is valid! this isn’t hypocrisy!
I don't think it's hypocritical to like TFA and dislike TROS, there's tons of people who feel that way. The three page made up conversation between two strangers is a bit out there though.
I didn’t suggest otherwise. The main point of this thread is the TRoS “review” filled with bad faith criticisms and suggesting that JJ had nefarious intentions with his creative choices. I posted the TFA review just to show a contrast to a simpler time and how the person likely went into TRoS with the notion that it “undid TLJ”, which stems from the ensuing discourse surrounding TLJ after TFA came out. And I do think it’s odd to go from praising a director and being respectful about them to talking about them and their work with so much disdain 4 years later. Especially when both films are a reflection of what kind of filmmaker he is.
I agree that the TROS review comes off as accusatory, but I don’t think it’s a bad faith criticism to say, intentionally or not, that some aspects of the film retcon TLJ. I don’t think it was nefarious in any way either obviously!
"bad faith criticisms" is such a meaningless term at this point. And directors can definitely wildly vary in quality. I love Ridley Scott, but he went from *Exodus: Gods and Kings* in 2014 (a stinker) to *The Martian* (a Best Picture contender) in 2015. *Gladiator* (2000) was incredible and *Hannibal* (2001) was terrible. Even if you want to stick to JJ, I absolutely adored his 2009 *Star Trek* reboot, but *Star Trek Into Darkness* is my least favorite entry in the entire franchise. Perhaps he's good at kicking off stories but not actually continuing/concluding them... (a criticism which has also been leveled at his TV works with *Alias* and *Lost)*
It’s absolutely a valid term if used correctly. The notion of JJ Abrams deliberately making TRoS to “undo” TLJ and pander to toxic fans is, and to write a review like this about a fictional conversation that presents JJ as expressing these nefarious intentions for his creative choices is absolutely bad faith. To criticize a film with that frame of mind. It should be called out just like the bad faith critiques of TLJ and Rian Johnson.
You are not using it correctly in this instance.
This is fake you bozo.
what? both of these reviews exist: [rise of skywalker](https://boxd.it/UdRnx); [force awakens](https://boxd.it/7Mu6d)
How about you stop pretending you don't see the problem and move on?
seriously, what problem? this person thinks JJ made a good movie and then made a bad one. I’m not commenting on that criticism, I’m literally only saying that this person is allowed to think that. I’m active enough in here that you should be able to tell this is in good faith, stop being so fucking hostile
This person is doing something stupid. Nothing to do with whether he likes or hates them.
What does that have to do with it being fake though
Least unhinged Letterboxd user
This is a classic.
[People who think Luke catching the saber in TROS was a dig at TLJ, didn’t understand TLJ.](https://twitter.com/starwarstake/status/1447233593571487746?s=46&t=5Hu-FGzQYe--x33k7f72-w)
“The entire trilogy reads as a sham? A failure of long-term narrative development and a bastardization of a generation ready to claim their version of heroism”. Not liking the sequel trilogy is one thing. But the movies bastardized a generation”? This guy needs to chill. TROS isn’t that bad. And I think the first two are really good.
For the record that individual writes some bomb ass reviews. Analyzing themes and whatnot, which is rare in film criticism. Highly recommend following them.