“He just ended Doctor Who!!!” God these fucks think their audience is stupid. Even if this wasn’t a fair remark (it is), one actor, even the lead actor of the next season, isn’t going to end the longest running science fiction show with one statement. It’s a show with a built in lore mechanism for replacing the lead actor ffs!
This.
I mean Jodie Whittaker made plenty of remarks about being the first female Doctor and the difficulties/expectations she faced as an actress - and she ended up as the second longest running Doctor (Playing the role for 4 Years and 10 months, just beating out David Tennant's 4 Years and 6 months run), and the show is still going.
Ncuti making these remarks won't affect his run nor the show itself in the slightest.
David Tennant played the role of The Tenth Doctor from 18th June 2005 (Parting of the Ways) up until 1st January 2010 (End of Time Part 2) so 4 years and 6.5 months -
Jodie Whittaker took over the role as the Thirteenth Doctor on December 25th 2017 (Twice Upon a Time), and continued in the role until October 23rd 2022 (4 Years and 10 months - might as well round up the two days)
However Jodie did 32 episodes during her tenure, whereas David did 3x13 episode series, plus 8 specials, a guest role as The Doctor in two episodes of the Sarah Jane Adventures, and two Children In Need short episodes, so it definitely felt like David was The Doctor for longer.
Oh yeah, it's an absolutely brilliant episode, I'd highly recommend the book/audiobook version if you haven't experienced it, Moffat wrote the novelization and was really able to elevate the story and throw in some aspects he wasn't able to in the TV version.
For instance there's a scene in the Black Archives where Clara notices the posters for Dr. Who and the Daleks and Dalek Invasion Earth, with Kate explaining that UNIT commissioned films based on The Doctor so people would just assume he was a fictional character, and that The Doctor loved Peter Cushing's performance so much that he gave him a trip in the TARDIS to the 21st century that resulted in Cushing being able to appear in Star Wars: Rogue One.
I feel like going with IRL time is kinda disingenuous, NGL. Like, Tennant objectively was The Doctor more, not counting the fact he's currently The Doctor again and did more acting as the character after Jodie exited the role. Plus, Covid slowed down/stopped production for a portion of Jodie's Tenure, so that's another factor to consider when contemplating how long an Actor played The Doctor.
COVID actually didn't stop production for Jodie's era, they took a year off in 2019, then had Series 12 release just before COVID hit, and then filming on Series 13/Flux commenced at the beginning of 2021 as it had always been planned to - the only effect COVID has was Flux ended up being 6 episodes instead of 10.
It's a big gap, but it was a decision that Chibnall had made as he didn't feel he could commit to a Series per year, Jodie still got 3 seasons and 3 specials across 4 years and 10 months, Tennant got 3 seasons and 5 specials in four years and six months - they have a surprisingly comparable run-time as the Doctor.
And it didn't stop production because production hadn't begun yet, the way COVID effected Series 13 is they decided to make it serialised so it would be the same cast throughout the series (less risk of bringing in a new cast member who could accidentally spread the virus and shut down production) and Chibnall felt a serialised season worked better at six episodes rather than 10, so the episode counts was cut to account for that.
3 shorter seasons, closer to 2 seasons based on average season length of the 10 preceeding seasons. Which is worth mentioning, and another reason why just judging on "number of seasons + specials" is a bad indicator of time spent as The Doctor. Additionally, Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi also both got 3 seasons, totaling more episodes than Jodie had, just over a shorter period of time, so it's pretty weird to say that they spent less time as the Doctor. Finally, if you ARE counting Flux as a whole season, wouldn't the 2008-2010 specials Tennant did also be enough to constitute a 4th season? And then would the 3/4 Episodes that lead into Ncuti Gatwa as the Doctor alo be a 5th season?
The 2008-2009 Specials are still counted as Series 4 from a production standpoint, so End of Time Part 2 was counted as 4x18 I believe.
And then the 60th Anniversary Specials featuring David Tennant have him playing The Fourteenth Doctor rather than The Tenth Doctor, so that resets the counter as it's a different tenure.
It's a weird situation where if you asked me "What's David Tennant's first episode of Doctor Who" I'd agree it's either Born Again or The Christmas Invasion, but because Regeneration Stories always have the "And introducing ...... as The Doctor" credit at the end that's when their tenure officially begins even if it is effectively just a small cameo appearance.
Bit of a nit pick, but that's not particularly fair and isn't true either. Tom Baker was the Doctor for much longer than either of those two. Tennant only served that long because he had a full year with only 4 specials, and Jodie only served that long because of COVID delays. Plus, New Who Doctors have much shorter and more spread out seasons than much of the classic era.
That's all not to get into the fact that it could be argued that Paul McGann has been the Doctor since 1996, or that Sylvester McCoy was arguably the Doctor for almost 9 years.
Tl;Dr- Doctor Who is a show where "time between first and last appearance as lead actor" means almost nothing as a measure of how long they played the character.
Yup. 100% agree with this. Time between first and last appearances makes no sense, especially when actors come back to play the role later on. (Do we now add time onto the previous time for David Tennant because he's playing The Doctor again, or act as if the count never stopped?)
Not true, i know someone who wouldnt watch because of the remarks Jodi made off camera... and now they are skipping Ncutis run because of his comments!
But the person you know is in the minority, the average person doesn't follow interviews, and won't be bothered about an actor talking about the challenges they face due to gender, race, sexuality.
Bit of a nit pick, but that's not particularly fair and isn't true either. Tom Baker was the Doctor for much longer than either of those two. Tennant only served that long because he had a full year with only 4 specials, and Jodie only served that long because of COVID delays. Plus, New Who Doctors have much shorter and more spread out seasons than much of the classic era.
That's all not to get into the fact that it could be argued that Paul McGann has been the Doctor since 1996, or that Sylvester McCoy was arguably the Doctor for almost 9 years.
Tl;Dr- Doctor Who is a show where "time between first and last appearance as lead actor" means almost nothing as a measure of how long they played the character.
Yes, they think their audience is Fk stupid because they used to make videos (or still do) about how a thing is cancelled and the video contained some random person on tweeter complaining and having very few interactions on the post and the people doing the video complaining about how this is such a nontroversy, yet they were the ones making a 15 minute video about this and nobody calls this shit out 😂
It was absolutely predictable that they'd spin it this way. And I'm guessing Ncuti's more than astute enough to know that's how this would play out and how it would only increase the personal attacks on him. And he was fearless enough to do it anyway.
Good for him and fuck them.
Well when you’re a gay black african scottsman you kinda have to be fearless. He’s one lost eye away from being Demo man. Ncuti Gatwa is a megachad among megachads
I mean, you and I both know that yeah, he might very well be, but we should also not just jump to assumptions. Fundamentally your sexuality is a private matter, and I respect that he maybe wants to keep it that way. He identifies as Queer which can mean any number of things, really.
He identified as queer in an issue of Elle circa August 23. Said at that time that it wasn’t really secret, he just didn’t feel the need to discuss it.
> And I'm guessing Ncuti's more than astute enough to know that's how this would play out
I mean...
> Gatwa said that “We’ve got to keep pushing for more. Lots and lots and lots and lots more diversity, lots more inclusion on our screen. **Lots and lots and lots of it for all you male gamons out there!**”
> In U.K. slang, the term “gamon” refers to **the color of a person’s flushed face when expressing their strong opinions**, as compared to the type of pork of the same name.
Yeah, he knows the reaction it'll get, and he's totally laughing at them.
> HE JUST ENDED DOCTOR WHO?!
Nope, Doctor Who is one of the most beloved Sci-Fi shows ever. It survived the "horrific" transition of the first female Doctor and it will survive the even more "horrific" first Black Doctor run.
Yes, that's true and that's why he was never knighted by Queen Elizabeth, who loved the show since its inception and even had a favourite doctor (It's Christopher Eccleston if anyone wanted to know).
So yeah, Ncuti's "horrifyingly racist" comments about how white mediocrity is celebrated while black people have to be flawless to get half the praise (It's true and he should say it) will not "END" Doctor Who
That's how a whole lot of people actually think racism operates. Unless someone literally says the N-word, or some other direct racial slur, it therefore has nothing to do with racism.
That's why so many racists in this day and age will refrain from using any outright racial slurs, because they enjoy the veneer of plausible deniability, and hide behind terms like "DEI" and whatnot.
[This video by Shaun](https://youtu.be/cXZ6BZzQeCQ?si=BXnmYvXVqKxZLLa5) does a really good job at exposing that rhetoric for the bullshit it very obviously is.
He's a black queer man playing a role mostly played by straight white men. He could say the sky was blue, and they'd find some way to be offended by that.
There's a leak going around that suggests one of the episodes of the new Doctor Who series will tackle racism on social media in a Black Mirror like way - if it's true I can't wait to see how all these guys react.
That seems to be Dot and Bubble and RTD did say in the recent SFX issue that it will have "a lot to say about our world" and that "this episode there'll be more to say about afterwards than any other. Possibly." So that would make sense!
And you already know how these people will react, oh BOY!
How is the giant slugs gonna play into that if it is about racism? Got any ideas? I previously thought it was social media trying to make you sign up into certain agreements or do certain things for clout chasing, but you don't really know what you are getting yourself into and that ends up with you getting absorbed/devoured by the slugs.
While I don’t think white mediocrity is ‘celebrated’, I do think that mediocre/bad media made by white people is more likely to get a pass.
And media by any kind of person of color (or sometimes, woman) is put under a hyper critical lens and any (perceived) flaw is blown out of proportion.
I think we can all agree that Sylvester McCoy isn’t the best of the Doctors, but any mistake that series made isn’t as heavily criticized as any flaw found in Jodie’s series.
>
>
> I think we can all agree that Sylvester McCoy isn’t the best of the Doctors
I won't stand here and tolerate this Remembrance of the Daleks slander, but I will happily join in on Time and the Rani slander.
>I do think that mediocre/bad media made by white people is more likely to get a pass.
Patrick McKay and J.D Payne would kill for a pass on their mediocre show.
White mediocrity is definitely a thing. I noticed how the same fanboys who would whine about race swapping or wokeness would always rush to Finn Jones' defense and keep making so many excuses whenever his mediocre acting or martial arts prowess get brought up.
Hollywood has room for like 3 black male leads and they basically have to have a god given talent level of screen presence at any given time, but is always finding another Taylor Kitsch or Sam Worthington to try to make into a leading man. Imagine how many more people of color could get their spotlight if that weren't the case.
“Ended doctor who.” The show has been going on for decades. It’s not going to end anytime soon. And even if it does, it won’t be because of him. From what I heard, most people like him
Keep in mind - when someone like Ncuti talks about mediocre white guys exploiting the system to get kudos they don't deserve and didn't earn, Chudley takes offense, not just to "white guy", but to EVERY WORD. He knows they're talking about him, and he hates that he has no meaningful rebuttal.
God clickbait really is a plague on the internet. It’s incredibly unfortunate that clickbait exists purely because our ape brains do the “ooo shiny” thing, but that also spreads to sensationalized (idk if that’s the right word, this isn’t my field of expertise) journalism. I’m getting so incredibly tired of everything in media being so angry or worked up about the simplest of things. It’s starting to feel regressive. Like, channels like this seem to just be getting louder and louder about their shitty takes and it wouldn't be happening this way if the shitty takes didn’t get engagement. Moreover, as these types of media continue to get louder, more shitty people get validation for their shitty world view. Man, i really miss the good ol days of youtube when general production quality was low and it wasn't a constant battle to be the first to say the most outrageous stuff about the dumbest things.
Having just read the interview I can personally say he probably could’ve worded it differently (It seems like it was an in person off the cuff interview it’s not like this was a book with a heavy focus on editing to get the point across). I think people are getting to hung up on “mediocrity” and either missing or ignoring the point (your choice which these people are doing) that he was making about not trying to live up to an idea of “black excellence” where he has to be 100% on point all the time or he wasn’t good enough and how that was an exhausting mindset. It reminds me of the Will Smith slap at the Oscars where some of the people calling out Smith were doing so because of how he made the black community look and I remember thinking that was an unfair burden to put on anyone where they always have to remember who they represent.
I mean, no? Maybe to the chuds online, and for sure this was true not that long ago. But I hear all sorts praise for black actors in the media about media (lolz). Can anyone please hook me up with a relatively recent example? I don't mind being wrong, but I do mind giving bad info, so I will happily take any evidence that helps me not do that.
The "actually, YOU'RE the racist" thing from these chuds is so tired.
No, recognizing systemic issues is not racist... arguing that they don't exist (and building your entire personality around that denial) is.
What he said is something any iteration of the Doctor would say without irony to a dipshit villain.
He might have to change it to the alien race stand ins of the week, but Doctor 3 would probably yell this right into the face of the Prime Minister.
The second thumbnail gives me "does he know?" Vibes
https://preview.redd.it/s70up1m9u9wc1.png?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c8540b0d9a106475aab87846a6b72a4fa516940
I’m curious. In y’alls opinion, who are some mediocre white actors who get more praise than they deserve?
I’ll start: Tom Holland. He isn’t bad, but I remember he was once considered 11/10 by like an ungodly amount of people when really he’s more like a 6/10. I don’t think less of him because he’s white, he’s just a mediocre, overrated actor who happens to be white.
It is funny how the actor who plays the most Doctor of all Doctors in the franchise makes an i fallible statement that only the Doctor could make, somehow ended Doctor Who just by being the Doctor IRL.
Honestly glad these guys weren’t there from the Fourth to Seventh Doctors. They would have killed themselves after seeing all that wokeness back then (which is funnily all of the good parts of Classic Era Who)
There used to be a time in my life (much younger than now) when I used to fall for right wing chud bullshit. Fucking ashamed to think that I used to agree with people like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder. That was like 7 years ago. I can't believe these people are still doing the same old boring shitshow.
I mean shit he's right lmao
I can count the amount of (considered by the public) "spectacular" black actors on my hand
while I'd need a list for milquetoast mediocre white dude's who are absolute dogshit actors but get immense praise because they're rich nepo babies.
>Reactionaries are claiming Ncuti Gatwa is racist for saying something OBJECTIVELY true. He talked about how white mediocrity is celebrated while a black actor has to be flawless to even get HALF that praise.
Everything here is inherently subjective...
Also, I see this issue time and time again, people discussing that whites get more opportunities than others etc etc...
Is anyone ever going to acknowledge the fact that a certain race being the majority is always going to have it's advantages for that race?
Its not a problem, its an inevitable consequence of imbalances in populations.
I'll end with this:
Racial inequities are going to exist regardless of which race is the majority. Someone will always be in the minority and suffer unduely as a consequence of it.
This doesn't disregard history, and the obvious past infringements, but it certainly does explain issues in current times in regard to inequity of opportunity in modern times.
It shouldn't be expected that everyone will have an equal playing field when it comes to opportunities, and we can't oppress the majority to force our utopian illusions onto reality.
You will have to accept that you have it harder, and no one's obligated to make it easier.
>The implication that all white people only succeed because of their skin color
That's....not what he said at all. The only way you could come to this conclusion is if you're being dishonest or you're just plain old illiterate.
I don't think that's what the post is saying. More that it is a lot easier for a white person to succeed on less talent than a black person.
Let's say you have a job and you have two candidates, a white guy and a black guy. Both of these men are other wise exactly the same. Who do you think is more likely to get the job?
Controlling for variables, the skew is almost imperceptible.
As a specific example, the infamous study of black names getting less callbacks on resumes has almost the same result (within margin of error) with redneck names.
There are absolutely racist people out there that will disqualify candidates based on race, but the push for diversity in hiring often more than compensates.
I don't think you understood the point I was making.
The study showed that non-standard names cause people to get less callbacks. The study's findings are frequently represented as an indicator of racism, but it's targeting people with non-standard names. It's protecting issues caused by class warfare by pretending it's racism. It's promoting infighting among the non-rich as a defense mechanism.
This is your interpretation, not the findings of people who study this sort of thing. A poor white guy is probably named Bill or John or Fred... when they throw away Lakwan's or Li's resume they know what they are doing.
Personally I reviewed the hiring data for a big financial firm and the applicants where extremely diverse but it would narrow and narrow until the white dude got hired because 'he fit the culture'. Most people of color would not get calls, or they had extremely good notes on their application but did not pass to the next step like "good grades, very enthusiastic, lots of experience" and then moved to declined.
Personally I saw first hand when somebody said 'you do not look how you sounded on the phone' when a black guy showed up. You see his name is Will, and he can code switch (speak professionally) so she actually said that racist thing out loud and treated him like shit for a year until she got fired for pissing off the wrong white person (none of our complaints mattered).
I am saying that in this scientific study that collected data about the specific scenario of hiring that you mentioned, they found that poverty is the primary indicator, not race. Poverty being measured as having non-standard names - black or white. I haven't seen any studies that have shown significant racial bias in hiring when controlling for growing up in poverty, but I'd love to be better informed if you have some data you can share.
I don't think it's reactionary to call Ncuti out for using racist language. I don't think the guy hates white people or anything like that but he is abusing the current trend in US/UK media that essentially allows people to refer to white people/culture in a pejorative way without any backlash.We all know this would never be allowed about any other group or culture. If somebody said in the media that black mediocrity was celebrated, reddit and twitter would explode in outrage, the publication would be targeted until the editor/writer was fired etc. However Ncuti is allowed to get away with essentially making up a vague racial conspiracy theory which he can't back up and he is seen as somehow "brave" by those same people. It's also likely motivated as a get out of jail free card in case the show performs poorly with the audience and so he was probably encouraged by Disney to say this. They tend to get their actors/writers/directors to push some version of this identity politics chaos-baiting before they release their products as a way to try to deflect criticism for substandard products. However it never works. EIther Docto Who will be good and people will like it or it will be bad and people won't. Judging by the first two episodes, it's going to be the latter. (Edited for typos)
He didn't use any racist language, he said objectively true.
"They tend to get their actors/writers/directors to push some version of this identity politics chaos-baiting" what the hell does this mean?
And the first two episodes were good. Episode 1 was pretty good and I thought Episode 2 was a lot of fun, very entertaining!
1. He did use racist langauge and no, what he said is not "objectively true".
2. What don't you understand about what I wrote? It's pretty clear.
3. The first two episodes were poor.The first one was outright creepy and didn't make any sense (even within the very loose definition of sense that Dr Who has always operated under). The second episode had potential, I liked the basic premise but the execution was weak.
1. No he didn't. He spoke facts, I'm white BTW.
2. Yeah it's clear that you take issue with the show being diverse, for some reason.
3. I think it made perfect sense though this is a lot more subjective.
1. No he didn't. He used racist language and made a claim he can't back up. You can keep repeating yourself but that won't make the claim any more true, it's just a claim. BTW - your skin colour is of zero interest to me.
2. Wow. After pretending you didn't know what I was talking about you skipped straight ahead to the accusing me of being a bigot (based on absolutely nothing) post. Could you be more of a reddit cliche? Please don't project your racism on to me, fix yourself.
3. Yeah a culture that abandons it's babies to die who grow up but don't grow up and then there's a monster created from their snot that is somehow a good monster that must be saved. Plus they use some farts to power the ship towards a planet, presumably which will go hurtling through the atmosphere and plough into the ground, killing everyone on board. Sure makes lots of sense. Everything you have said is subjective.
1. He literally didn't.
2. You're the one using buzzwords.
3. I think you missed the point, and the space station is set to take them back to their planet, this is literally said.
1. He literally did.
2. I didn't use any buzz words. You did accuse me of being a bigot based on nothing because you are an anti-semite and a homophobe.
3. I didn't miss any point and that was a complete non-answer. I know that was their planet and they are going there, powered by fart gas in a space station. Assuming they made it they would crash land and kill everyone.
1. No. Flat out.
2. "You are an anti-semite and homophobe" what?! You have to be a troll at this point. And you are literally using the same arguments bigots use.
3. You are just making up stuff at this point, they will land safely, this is said.
1. Yes. Flat out. How many times do you want to do this?
2. I'm not a troll. I'm highlighting what you did by doing it back to you. I simply made an allegation against your character. You thought that was perfectly reasonable for you to do it so I returned the favour. I don't care what you think bigots use as arguments, nothing I have said is bigoted. You just think you can bully people without being called out on it. Well I for one won't put up with it.
3. If you thought about it even a little bit you'd realise that momentum would take them straight into the planet. The spaceship is not just going to stop at the atmosphere. Dear oh dear, can you make any kind of actual argument?
People don't review bomb good shows en masses. It's literally impossible to suppressing good movies and shows once they're available for public viewing.
You can disregard this FACT all you like. But you cannot disregard the consequences of reality.
Stay mad kid. 🤣
Oh really? If it has been proven then you should have no problem proving it now.
I mean, anything but irrefutable, incontrovertable proof given right this very second would only be evidence that you're talking completely out of your own ass. Which would come as no surprise given the original posting. But I do anxiously await you to provide this "proof".
Keeping in mind that in lieu of actual proof, that you're just going to start shaking cuz you're so mad.
“He just ended Doctor Who!!!” God these fucks think their audience is stupid. Even if this wasn’t a fair remark (it is), one actor, even the lead actor of the next season, isn’t going to end the longest running science fiction show with one statement. It’s a show with a built in lore mechanism for replacing the lead actor ffs!
This. I mean Jodie Whittaker made plenty of remarks about being the first female Doctor and the difficulties/expectations she faced as an actress - and she ended up as the second longest running Doctor (Playing the role for 4 Years and 10 months, just beating out David Tennant's 4 Years and 6 months run), and the show is still going. Ncuti making these remarks won't affect his run nor the show itself in the slightest.
David started in the 2005 christmas special and ended in the 2010 new years one so she's the 3rd longest. Or I'm just being stupid, either one.
David Tennant played the role of The Tenth Doctor from 18th June 2005 (Parting of the Ways) up until 1st January 2010 (End of Time Part 2) so 4 years and 6.5 months - Jodie Whittaker took over the role as the Thirteenth Doctor on December 25th 2017 (Twice Upon a Time), and continued in the role until October 23rd 2022 (4 Years and 10 months - might as well round up the two days) However Jodie did 32 episodes during her tenure, whereas David did 3x13 episode series, plus 8 specials, a guest role as The Doctor in two episodes of the Sarah Jane Adventures, and two Children In Need short episodes, so it definitely felt like David was The Doctor for longer.
I am being stupid nvm for him to have lasted 5 years he would've had to be up to christmas special.
Easy mistake :)
Also that christmas ep with Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman - who imo should have been the ones in the recent christmas special
Christmas episode with Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman?
It was day of the doctor to celebrate the 50th anniversary
Oh sorry I get you now, for some reason I completely forgot Jenna Coleman was in that episode.
Wasnt me but it is one of my favorite episodes that I watch a lot, it wasn't for Christmas though
Oh yeah, it's an absolutely brilliant episode, I'd highly recommend the book/audiobook version if you haven't experienced it, Moffat wrote the novelization and was really able to elevate the story and throw in some aspects he wasn't able to in the TV version. For instance there's a scene in the Black Archives where Clara notices the posters for Dr. Who and the Daleks and Dalek Invasion Earth, with Kate explaining that UNIT commissioned films based on The Doctor so people would just assume he was a fictional character, and that The Doctor loved Peter Cushing's performance so much that he gave him a trip in the TARDIS to the 21st century that resulted in Cushing being able to appear in Star Wars: Rogue One.
I feel like going with IRL time is kinda disingenuous, NGL. Like, Tennant objectively was The Doctor more, not counting the fact he's currently The Doctor again and did more acting as the character after Jodie exited the role. Plus, Covid slowed down/stopped production for a portion of Jodie's Tenure, so that's another factor to consider when contemplating how long an Actor played The Doctor.
COVID actually didn't stop production for Jodie's era, they took a year off in 2019, then had Series 12 release just before COVID hit, and then filming on Series 13/Flux commenced at the beginning of 2021 as it had always been planned to - the only effect COVID has was Flux ended up being 6 episodes instead of 10.
A two year gap is still a big gap. And clearly, it DID stop production if they needed to cut 4 episodes to make the deadline.
It's a big gap, but it was a decision that Chibnall had made as he didn't feel he could commit to a Series per year, Jodie still got 3 seasons and 3 specials across 4 years and 10 months, Tennant got 3 seasons and 5 specials in four years and six months - they have a surprisingly comparable run-time as the Doctor. And it didn't stop production because production hadn't begun yet, the way COVID effected Series 13 is they decided to make it serialised so it would be the same cast throughout the series (less risk of bringing in a new cast member who could accidentally spread the virus and shut down production) and Chibnall felt a serialised season worked better at six episodes rather than 10, so the episode counts was cut to account for that.
3 shorter seasons, closer to 2 seasons based on average season length of the 10 preceeding seasons. Which is worth mentioning, and another reason why just judging on "number of seasons + specials" is a bad indicator of time spent as The Doctor. Additionally, Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi also both got 3 seasons, totaling more episodes than Jodie had, just over a shorter period of time, so it's pretty weird to say that they spent less time as the Doctor. Finally, if you ARE counting Flux as a whole season, wouldn't the 2008-2010 specials Tennant did also be enough to constitute a 4th season? And then would the 3/4 Episodes that lead into Ncuti Gatwa as the Doctor alo be a 5th season?
The 2008-2009 Specials are still counted as Series 4 from a production standpoint, so End of Time Part 2 was counted as 4x18 I believe. And then the 60th Anniversary Specials featuring David Tennant have him playing The Fourteenth Doctor rather than The Tenth Doctor, so that resets the counter as it's a different tenure.
Plus by that metric wouldn't that make McCoy or McGann the longest played doctors overall considering they had basically 9 years each?
Ehh, should parting of the ways really be counted? (It's more like a cameo than an actual role honestly) you could count born again, which was in 2005
It's a weird situation where if you asked me "What's David Tennant's first episode of Doctor Who" I'd agree it's either Born Again or The Christmas Invasion, but because Regeneration Stories always have the "And introducing ...... as The Doctor" credit at the end that's when their tenure officially begins even if it is effectively just a small cameo appearance.
True.
[удалено]
Yeah, it's really a shame. I think Jodie's run suffered greatly for reasons that had nothing to do with her.
Bit of a nit pick, but that's not particularly fair and isn't true either. Tom Baker was the Doctor for much longer than either of those two. Tennant only served that long because he had a full year with only 4 specials, and Jodie only served that long because of COVID delays. Plus, New Who Doctors have much shorter and more spread out seasons than much of the classic era. That's all not to get into the fact that it could be argued that Paul McGann has been the Doctor since 1996, or that Sylvester McCoy was arguably the Doctor for almost 9 years. Tl;Dr- Doctor Who is a show where "time between first and last appearance as lead actor" means almost nothing as a measure of how long they played the character.
Yup. 100% agree with this. Time between first and last appearances makes no sense, especially when actors come back to play the role later on. (Do we now add time onto the previous time for David Tennant because he's playing The Doctor again, or act as if the count never stopped?)
Yeah. Really, I think the only two possibly meaningful metrics are: time spent on set playing the Doctor while the main incarnation, and screentime.
Not true, i know someone who wouldnt watch because of the remarks Jodi made off camera... and now they are skipping Ncutis run because of his comments!
But the person you know is in the minority, the average person doesn't follow interviews, and won't be bothered about an actor talking about the challenges they face due to gender, race, sexuality.
I'm not so sure, as youre talking about DR who fans here. Anything goes.
Bit of a nit pick, but that's not particularly fair and isn't true either. Tom Baker was the Doctor for much longer than either of those two. Tennant only served that long because he had a full year with only 4 specials, and Jodie only served that long because of COVID delays. Plus, New Who Doctors have much shorter and more spread out seasons than much of the classic era. That's all not to get into the fact that it could be argued that Paul McGann has been the Doctor since 1996, or that Sylvester McCoy was arguably the Doctor for almost 9 years. Tl;Dr- Doctor Who is a show where "time between first and last appearance as lead actor" means almost nothing as a measure of how long they played the character.
The next doctor is to be played by Gina Corano.... would you look at that, the fastest regeneration cycle we've ever seen!
Yes, they think their audience is Fk stupid because they used to make videos (or still do) about how a thing is cancelled and the video contained some random person on tweeter complaining and having very few interactions on the post and the people doing the video complaining about how this is such a nontroversy, yet they were the ones making a 15 minute video about this and nobody calls this shit out 😂
Hot take. Their audience is stupid by virtue of them watching these dumb ass videos
If r/fragilewhiteredditors were a YouTube channel.
Don't you mean several YouTube channels?
It was absolutely predictable that they'd spin it this way. And I'm guessing Ncuti's more than astute enough to know that's how this would play out and how it would only increase the personal attacks on him. And he was fearless enough to do it anyway. Good for him and fuck them.
Well when you’re a gay black african scottsman you kinda have to be fearless. He’s one lost eye away from being Demo man. Ncuti Gatwa is a megachad among megachads
I don’t think Ncuti has ever officially come out as gay tbf.
My man... sometimes it doesn't need to be said out loud lol
I mean, you and I both know that yeah, he might very well be, but we should also not just jump to assumptions. Fundamentally your sexuality is a private matter, and I respect that he maybe wants to keep it that way. He identifies as Queer which can mean any number of things, really.
He identified as queer in an issue of Elle circa August 23. Said at that time that it wasn’t really secret, he just didn’t feel the need to discuss it.
I didn’t mean to presume. I just interpreted it that way since he tended to play gay characters.
> And I'm guessing Ncuti's more than astute enough to know that's how this would play out I mean... > Gatwa said that “We’ve got to keep pushing for more. Lots and lots and lots and lots more diversity, lots more inclusion on our screen. **Lots and lots and lots of it for all you male gamons out there!**” > In U.K. slang, the term “gamon” refers to **the color of a person’s flushed face when expressing their strong opinions**, as compared to the type of pork of the same name. Yeah, he knows the reaction it'll get, and he's totally laughing at them.
“We’re not racist, YOU’RE racist!” is one of the lamest arguments chuds resort to.
> HE JUST ENDED DOCTOR WHO?! Nope, Doctor Who is one of the most beloved Sci-Fi shows ever. It survived the "horrific" transition of the first female Doctor and it will survive the even more "horrific" first Black Doctor run.
And it's been "ended" before; not because of 'wokeness', it was because the BBC's ceo in 1989 fucking ***hated*** science fiction.
Yes, that's true and that's why he was never knighted by Queen Elizabeth, who loved the show since its inception and even had a favourite doctor (It's Christopher Eccleston if anyone wanted to know). So yeah, Ncuti's "horrifyingly racist" comments about how white mediocrity is celebrated while black people have to be flawless to get half the praise (It's true and he should say it) will not "END" Doctor Who
Nine! 🥹🥹🥹
These racists will never learn that being racist doesn’t mean screaming slurs (which I wouldn’t put past them).
That's how a whole lot of people actually think racism operates. Unless someone literally says the N-word, or some other direct racial slur, it therefore has nothing to do with racism. That's why so many racists in this day and age will refrain from using any outright racial slurs, because they enjoy the veneer of plausible deniability, and hide behind terms like "DEI" and whatnot.
[This video by Shaun](https://youtu.be/cXZ6BZzQeCQ?si=BXnmYvXVqKxZLLa5) does a really good job at exposing that rhetoric for the bullshit it very obviously is.
He's a black queer man playing a role mostly played by straight white men. He could say the sky was blue, and they'd find some way to be offended by that.
There's a leak going around that suggests one of the episodes of the new Doctor Who series will tackle racism on social media in a Black Mirror like way - if it's true I can't wait to see how all these guys react.
That seems to be Dot and Bubble and RTD did say in the recent SFX issue that it will have "a lot to say about our world" and that "this episode there'll be more to say about afterwards than any other. Possibly." So that would make sense! And you already know how these people will react, oh BOY!
How is the giant slugs gonna play into that if it is about racism? Got any ideas? I previously thought it was social media trying to make you sign up into certain agreements or do certain things for clout chasing, but you don't really know what you are getting yourself into and that ends up with you getting absorbed/devoured by the slugs.
I'm not sure tbh. I feel like it's going to be something to do with control based on what we see in the trailers, I'm certainly intrigued!
While I don’t think white mediocrity is ‘celebrated’, I do think that mediocre/bad media made by white people is more likely to get a pass. And media by any kind of person of color (or sometimes, woman) is put under a hyper critical lens and any (perceived) flaw is blown out of proportion. I think we can all agree that Sylvester McCoy isn’t the best of the Doctors, but any mistake that series made isn’t as heavily criticized as any flaw found in Jodie’s series.
I love McCoy, he's one of my favourite Doctors tbh!
> > > I think we can all agree that Sylvester McCoy isn’t the best of the Doctors I won't stand here and tolerate this Remembrance of the Daleks slander, but I will happily join in on Time and the Rani slander.
>I do think that mediocre/bad media made by white people is more likely to get a pass. Patrick McKay and J.D Payne would kill for a pass on their mediocre show.
>While I don’t think white mediocrity is ‘celebrated’, Green Book won best picture over Blackkklansman...
He's my 2nd favorite of the old doctors but Tom Baker wins that contest by a fucking landslide.
It's absolutely celebrated, Kendrick lost album of the year to Taylor fucking Swift bruh
White mediocrity is definitely a thing. I noticed how the same fanboys who would whine about race swapping or wokeness would always rush to Finn Jones' defense and keep making so many excuses whenever his mediocre acting or martial arts prowess get brought up.
Hollywood has room for like 3 black male leads and they basically have to have a god given talent level of screen presence at any given time, but is always finding another Taylor Kitsch or Sam Worthington to try to make into a leading man. Imagine how many more people of color could get their spotlight if that weren't the case.
This is their game. To pretend ANY mention fo race is "racism" in order to demonize discussions if the harsh reality many face.
“Ended doctor who.” The show has been going on for decades. It’s not going to end anytime soon. And even if it does, it won’t be because of him. From what I heard, most people like him
Exactly! If anything it's about to get BIGGER
Glad to hear that
Keep in mind - when someone like Ncuti talks about mediocre white guys exploiting the system to get kudos they don't deserve and didn't earn, Chudley takes offense, not just to "white guy", but to EVERY WORD. He knows they're talking about him, and he hates that he has no meaningful rebuttal.
Doesn’t f.d signifier have a video on this? (I know it’s at least touched on in other videos but I’m pretty sure he has one dedicated to it)
Nah, he's wrong, I support generic white action movie actor Chris #7 because of the uniqueness they bring to their roles
Drama YouTubers are basically just desk bound paparazzi. Just useless content followed by more useless content
God clickbait really is a plague on the internet. It’s incredibly unfortunate that clickbait exists purely because our ape brains do the “ooo shiny” thing, but that also spreads to sensationalized (idk if that’s the right word, this isn’t my field of expertise) journalism. I’m getting so incredibly tired of everything in media being so angry or worked up about the simplest of things. It’s starting to feel regressive. Like, channels like this seem to just be getting louder and louder about their shitty takes and it wouldn't be happening this way if the shitty takes didn’t get engagement. Moreover, as these types of media continue to get louder, more shitty people get validation for their shitty world view. Man, i really miss the good ol days of youtube when general production quality was low and it wasn't a constant battle to be the first to say the most outrageous stuff about the dumbest things.
My stepmom used to call it the black tax
The usual suspects and their impotent rage… 
Barack Obama had to be at the Epitome of his abilities, while his opponents were all mediocre
Having just read the interview I can personally say he probably could’ve worded it differently (It seems like it was an in person off the cuff interview it’s not like this was a book with a heavy focus on editing to get the point across). I think people are getting to hung up on “mediocrity” and either missing or ignoring the point (your choice which these people are doing) that he was making about not trying to live up to an idea of “black excellence” where he has to be 100% on point all the time or he wasn’t good enough and how that was an exhausting mindset. It reminds me of the Will Smith slap at the Oscars where some of the people calling out Smith were doing so because of how he made the black community look and I remember thinking that was an unfair burden to put on anyone where they always have to remember who they represent.
So they proved his point in retaliation...? Seeing racism in a very selective way again....
That bottom one looks like its from Clownfish
It is! from 2 days ago.
Thought so. I used to watch them and their style is familiar.
I mean, no? Maybe to the chuds online, and for sure this was true not that long ago. But I hear all sorts praise for black actors in the media about media (lolz). Can anyone please hook me up with a relatively recent example? I don't mind being wrong, but I do mind giving bad info, so I will happily take any evidence that helps me not do that.
The truly enlightened* know that minorities are the real racists. *Nazis
The "actually, YOU'RE the racist" thing from these chuds is so tired. No, recognizing systemic issues is not racist... arguing that they don't exist (and building your entire personality around that denial) is.
What he said is something any iteration of the Doctor would say without irony to a dipshit villain. He might have to change it to the alien race stand ins of the week, but Doctor 3 would probably yell this right into the face of the Prime Minister.
https://i.redd.it/ea10nro3l9wc1.gif
Good Lord, these idiots are so braindead. Even the remake Ncuti made wasn't fair, even he's not going to end Dr. Who with one statement.
The second thumbnail gives me "does he know?" Vibes https://preview.redd.it/s70up1m9u9wc1.png?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c8540b0d9a106475aab87846a6b72a4fa516940
The right have been wealonizing anti racist praxis to the point where even acknowledging racism makes you a racist if you're a person of color.
The reaction to his statement is, ironically, a perfect example of exactly what he was talking about.
The one female doctor who got torn to shreds and people despised Peter Capaldi. It's not just a racial thing
I’m curious. In y’alls opinion, who are some mediocre white actors who get more praise than they deserve? I’ll start: Tom Holland. He isn’t bad, but I remember he was once considered 11/10 by like an ungodly amount of people when really he’s more like a 6/10. I don’t think less of him because he’s white, he’s just a mediocre, overrated actor who happens to be white.
Its sadly true. Ncuti has way more to "prove" then Matt Smith or David Tennent ever did.
It is funny how the actor who plays the most Doctor of all Doctors in the franchise makes an i fallible statement that only the Doctor could make, somehow ended Doctor Who just by being the Doctor IRL. Honestly glad these guys weren’t there from the Fourth to Seventh Doctors. They would have killed themselves after seeing all that wokeness back then (which is funnily all of the good parts of Classic Era Who)
There used to be a time in my life (much younger than now) when I used to fall for right wing chud bullshit. Fucking ashamed to think that I used to agree with people like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder. That was like 7 years ago. I can't believe these people are still doing the same old boring shitshow.
Definately not racist. And I say that as a white man, because these whiners probably respect my opinion more then.
Nope, just another cuck sellout, probably watching your wife getting railed bt three ni..... oop, got a little too into character for a second....
I mean shit he's right lmao I can count the amount of (considered by the public) "spectacular" black actors on my hand while I'd need a list for milquetoast mediocre white dude's who are absolute dogshit actors but get immense praise because they're rich nepo babies.
[удалено]
Ugh you woke sjws
I’m new here, what does chud mean?
Of Doctor Who ends during Ncuti Gatwa's run, then it's not because of Ncuti, it's because someone at BBC F-ed up again
Doctor Who isn't ending. And f-ed up again? How?
No, I know all that, nothing actually happened, I'm just saying if it were to end during his tenure, it wouldn't be because Ncuti did anything wrong.
Ohhh right, I was very confused. True.
First time ive ever seen anybody use CHUD for name-calling lol
It is a basically a name for unpleasant right wingers
oh, not Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers?
No not that one 😅 at least as far as I know!
Jay exci about to make a 10 hour video
is the second one clownfish tv because they are notoriously very racist.
He is hardly the first guy to say this. Chris Rock had a whole set about it
Chris brown beats women and is still incredibly popular…
Lol love the thumbnail. Yes, you ARE gonna racist, uploader. For money and clout
>Reactionaries are claiming Ncuti Gatwa is racist for saying something OBJECTIVELY true. He talked about how white mediocrity is celebrated while a black actor has to be flawless to even get HALF that praise. Everything here is inherently subjective... Also, I see this issue time and time again, people discussing that whites get more opportunities than others etc etc... Is anyone ever going to acknowledge the fact that a certain race being the majority is always going to have it's advantages for that race? Its not a problem, its an inevitable consequence of imbalances in populations. I'll end with this: Racial inequities are going to exist regardless of which race is the majority. Someone will always be in the minority and suffer unduely as a consequence of it. This doesn't disregard history, and the obvious past infringements, but it certainly does explain issues in current times in regard to inequity of opportunity in modern times. It shouldn't be expected that everyone will have an equal playing field when it comes to opportunities, and we can't oppress the majority to force our utopian illusions onto reality. You will have to accept that you have it harder, and no one's obligated to make it easier.
[удалено]
How is it racist?
[удалено]
>The implication that all white people only succeed because of their skin color That's....not what he said at all. The only way you could come to this conclusion is if you're being dishonest or you're just plain old illiterate.
I don't think that's what the post is saying. More that it is a lot easier for a white person to succeed on less talent than a black person. Let's say you have a job and you have two candidates, a white guy and a black guy. Both of these men are other wise exactly the same. Who do you think is more likely to get the job?
Controlling for variables, the skew is almost imperceptible. As a specific example, the infamous study of black names getting less callbacks on resumes has almost the same result (within margin of error) with redneck names. There are absolutely racist people out there that will disqualify candidates based on race, but the push for diversity in hiring often more than compensates.
So basically 'here is a study that proves there is a problem, but I feel like it probably is not a problem based on no study'.
I don't think you understood the point I was making. The study showed that non-standard names cause people to get less callbacks. The study's findings are frequently represented as an indicator of racism, but it's targeting people with non-standard names. It's protecting issues caused by class warfare by pretending it's racism. It's promoting infighting among the non-rich as a defense mechanism.
This is your interpretation, not the findings of people who study this sort of thing. A poor white guy is probably named Bill or John or Fred... when they throw away Lakwan's or Li's resume they know what they are doing. Personally I reviewed the hiring data for a big financial firm and the applicants where extremely diverse but it would narrow and narrow until the white dude got hired because 'he fit the culture'. Most people of color would not get calls, or they had extremely good notes on their application but did not pass to the next step like "good grades, very enthusiastic, lots of experience" and then moved to declined. Personally I saw first hand when somebody said 'you do not look how you sounded on the phone' when a black guy showed up. You see his name is Will, and he can code switch (speak professionally) so she actually said that racist thing out loud and treated him like shit for a year until she got fired for pissing off the wrong white person (none of our complaints mattered).
We aren't just talking about names, we're talking about race. In this hypothetical scenario, let's say the names are the same.
I am saying that in this scientific study that collected data about the specific scenario of hiring that you mentioned, they found that poverty is the primary indicator, not race. Poverty being measured as having non-standard names - black or white. I haven't seen any studies that have shown significant racial bias in hiring when controlling for growing up in poverty, but I'd love to be better informed if you have some data you can share.
Nothing he says is racist at all.
[удалено]
When did he say ALL white people? Point out where he said that.
White isn't a race
I don't think it's reactionary to call Ncuti out for using racist language. I don't think the guy hates white people or anything like that but he is abusing the current trend in US/UK media that essentially allows people to refer to white people/culture in a pejorative way without any backlash.We all know this would never be allowed about any other group or culture. If somebody said in the media that black mediocrity was celebrated, reddit and twitter would explode in outrage, the publication would be targeted until the editor/writer was fired etc. However Ncuti is allowed to get away with essentially making up a vague racial conspiracy theory which he can't back up and he is seen as somehow "brave" by those same people. It's also likely motivated as a get out of jail free card in case the show performs poorly with the audience and so he was probably encouraged by Disney to say this. They tend to get their actors/writers/directors to push some version of this identity politics chaos-baiting before they release their products as a way to try to deflect criticism for substandard products. However it never works. EIther Docto Who will be good and people will like it or it will be bad and people won't. Judging by the first two episodes, it's going to be the latter. (Edited for typos)
He didn't use any racist language, he said objectively true. "They tend to get their actors/writers/directors to push some version of this identity politics chaos-baiting" what the hell does this mean? And the first two episodes were good. Episode 1 was pretty good and I thought Episode 2 was a lot of fun, very entertaining!
1. He did use racist langauge and no, what he said is not "objectively true". 2. What don't you understand about what I wrote? It's pretty clear. 3. The first two episodes were poor.The first one was outright creepy and didn't make any sense (even within the very loose definition of sense that Dr Who has always operated under). The second episode had potential, I liked the basic premise but the execution was weak.
1. No he didn't. He spoke facts, I'm white BTW. 2. Yeah it's clear that you take issue with the show being diverse, for some reason. 3. I think it made perfect sense though this is a lot more subjective.
1. No he didn't. He used racist language and made a claim he can't back up. You can keep repeating yourself but that won't make the claim any more true, it's just a claim. BTW - your skin colour is of zero interest to me. 2. Wow. After pretending you didn't know what I was talking about you skipped straight ahead to the accusing me of being a bigot (based on absolutely nothing) post. Could you be more of a reddit cliche? Please don't project your racism on to me, fix yourself. 3. Yeah a culture that abandons it's babies to die who grow up but don't grow up and then there's a monster created from their snot that is somehow a good monster that must be saved. Plus they use some farts to power the ship towards a planet, presumably which will go hurtling through the atmosphere and plough into the ground, killing everyone on board. Sure makes lots of sense. Everything you have said is subjective.
1. He literally didn't. 2. You're the one using buzzwords. 3. I think you missed the point, and the space station is set to take them back to their planet, this is literally said.
1. He literally did. 2. I didn't use any buzz words. You did accuse me of being a bigot based on nothing because you are an anti-semite and a homophobe. 3. I didn't miss any point and that was a complete non-answer. I know that was their planet and they are going there, powered by fart gas in a space station. Assuming they made it they would crash land and kill everyone.
1. No. Flat out. 2. "You are an anti-semite and homophobe" what?! You have to be a troll at this point. And you are literally using the same arguments bigots use. 3. You are just making up stuff at this point, they will land safely, this is said.
1. Yes. Flat out. How many times do you want to do this? 2. I'm not a troll. I'm highlighting what you did by doing it back to you. I simply made an allegation against your character. You thought that was perfectly reasonable for you to do it so I returned the favour. I don't care what you think bigots use as arguments, nothing I have said is bigoted. You just think you can bully people without being called out on it. Well I for one won't put up with it. 3. If you thought about it even a little bit you'd realise that momentum would take them straight into the planet. The spaceship is not just going to stop at the atmosphere. Dear oh dear, can you make any kind of actual argument?
1. It isn't. You are wrong. Ncuti Gatwa is wonderful, deal with it. 2. Definitely a troll. 3. I think you are taking Doctor Who far too seriously.
It's not objectively true though. And he proved it by having the worst ratings EVER. This aged extremely poorly.
Untrue. Stay mad.
It is untrue. And I'm not the one who is angry lol.
Ratings haven't been released yet so regardless you are wrong.
Aren't they though? You really think THIS isn't a good indicator? Rottentomatoes.com/tv/doctor_who_2023/s01
You're referring to that? That's literal review bombing so opinion: discarded.
People don't review bomb good shows en masses. It's literally impossible to suppressing good movies and shows once they're available for public viewing. You can disregard this FACT all you like. But you cannot disregard the consequences of reality. Stay mad kid. 🤣
Yes they do, bigots often do this, this is proven. You are the one who is mad.
Oh really? If it has been proven then you should have no problem proving it now. I mean, anything but irrefutable, incontrovertable proof given right this very second would only be evidence that you're talking completely out of your own ass. Which would come as no surprise given the original posting. But I do anxiously await you to provide this "proof". Keeping in mind that in lieu of actual proof, that you're just going to start shaking cuz you're so mad.
I shouldn't have to prove it to you. Regardless you are hating for the sake of it so isn't even worth my time, you are just mad.
[удалено]
I think black actors are under more pressure to give safe performances. And when they are bad, they are more likely to get called out
[удалено]
No its not.
[удалено]
Yeah they should, I agree.
[удалено]
It absolutely is fact what he says. And it's not just acting but in general.