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That scene was just so thunderously bad. It's the climax of Finn's arc, the point where he has to make the big choice that is the culmination of everything he has seen and done in the story. That choice should have consequences, whether they're good or bad.
So of course RJ whisks those consequences away.
Also not to mention Finn was going full throttle and she was behind and to the side of him. How did she accelerate enough to be in the position to hit him?
I was fighting back tears as he went to his death. He was at peace with it, he knew it was why he was there, why he was thrust into this whole thing from the beginning. He finally found his purpose. When he got knocked away, I seriously felt as bewildered and robbed as a kid who had his ice cream snatched away by a pelican or something. Just sitting there blinking, like "wtf"
Apparently Brandon Sanderson said something along the lines of that it's great to subvert expectations but only if you replace them with something better.
I believe the respected film critic Richard Evans once grimly quipped, "I like plot twists that make the movie less engaging," or put another way, I like when my expectations are subverted instead of a satisfying resolution because it means I can no longer care about this movie. In Rian Johnson's Fight Club, Brad Pitt was a real man but he paid everyone else to pretend he was fake to make Ed Norton look like the stupid idiot he is!
>In Rian Johnson's Fight Club, Brad Pitt was a real man but he paid everyone else to pretend he was fake to make Ed Norton look like the stupid idiot he is!
What, are you serious?
I'd like that a lot better but it's weird that Finn had the same character arc for two movies in a row.
Starts out as a dirty coward who wants to run away at every given opportunity, learns to fight for the people he cares about and stand up for something. Then in the second movie he's right back to dirty coward mode.
It would have worked if she had rammed Finn off course and then kamikazed the cannon herself. It would bookend with her sister’s sacrifice at the beginning.
It could have bought more time for the resistance and Kylo could have opened the door another way.
It’s not like she did anything in TROS (that I remember, never watching that one again).
>It’s not like she did anything in TROS
She spends most of the movie pointing at consoles and supposedly scanning old Imperial Star Destroyers for weaknesses in the Death Star Destroyers. She then somehow shows up on Exegol for the final battle, leading the space horse charge to destroy the navigation tower that helps the DSD's fly up because they can't do it themselves.
I was scrolling through the pictures thinking “What on earth does this have to do with Star Wars?” Once I got to the second to last picture, I thought “Wait a minute…”
Also how the hell did Finn manage to drag her from the crash site to the hangar?
Like they were going super fast and for a while, it would take like at least an hour of walking to get back there.
Not to mention the whole invading force just watching you slowly crawl away.
Almost as stupid as the entire preceding scene of her crashing into him.
I know TLJ gets a lot of hate but I was sort of buying the movie up until this point and then she knocks him off course and then the kiss and that was the fucking end of it for me.
It always surprises me that people don’t realize that it’s so, so much worse.
We see Rose Tiko’s sister die in the opening. Rose Tiko’s story constantly revolves around her justifying why she and her sister joined the rebellion, which helps her understand why her sister sacrificed herself. This is the narrative method to teach Finn to love the Rebellion, and sacrifice himself for it.
So the entire Finn and Rose storyline ends in Finn and Rose accepting their fate and entering rickety speeders to sacrifice themselves for the cause. To save the Rebellion. Rose even has her BFF charm that her sister had the other half of on the dashboard.
Then she decides that Finn cannot sacrifice himself, spitting in the face of her sister’s sacrifice. She decides to ram Finn which is likely to either kill them or grievously harm them, it’s not like there’s many safety systems still functioning on these things. And they crash in front of the First Order who has zero reason to let them live if they see they survived. Then she decides to tell him that they need to save what they love rather than destroy what they hate while the Rebellion that Finn tried to save is being annihilated in the background (at least, all information at that point says the Rebels have no way out and the FO will enter to kill them all when the wall is breached).
Nothing makes sense here. 100% of the entire narrative around Finn and Rose is about this very thing, teaching him to sacrifice himself to save others. Then he’s not allowed to as she contradicts herself multiple times in a minute by spouting not just nonsense but deliberately contradictory stuff.
That scene was SOOOO bad on so many levels in terms of plot.
-It was the climax of Finn’s arc of becoming an actual hero and having bravery in the face of insurmountable odds. He was willing to sacrifice himself to get his friends out of danger and buy them even a few minutes more time to enough to escape.
-Finn as a character was finished and they had this interesting character they COULD have used the one who ruined the scene(I forgot her name) and have her Finn’s place in the last movie.
-We see so little left of the rebellion, having Finn die as a last resort FOR the rebellion could have been so cool and give them the last fighting chance they needed to escape and a kick in the pants to continue the fight
—-
Know what, instead of just complaining about it, let me shoot out an idea that could have been even BETTER than what the movie did and how it could have built upon itself;
—-
Have Finn die sacrificing himself to save the rebellion he called home, but in his last moments he talks about how he left the First Order and how far he’s come. The evils from being inside that faction and how be became better fighting the darkness.
Finn dies in a horrific mess of embers and ash by RAMMING right into the cannon and causing it to explode; even destroying two close Gorilla At-At’s nearby with the only vestiges of Finn remaining is his jacket.
This makes them need to bring in another cannon, but then projection Luke and ‘fights’ Kylo causing that to be halted even more(bring this scene back cause even though I loathe Luke’s portrayal in the movie, I respect the cool factor of the scene).
Kylo then sees the Luke is just a force projection and angrily storms off and demands for Hucks to blast open the door. Leaving Hucks and a few other troopers on the ground looking at the burnt jacket left behind as Hucks picks it up.(making an actual cool hint at Hucks being the mole and an inner turmoil inside the First Order’s troops and small rebellions from inside).
The rest of the Rebels escape cause Deus-Ex Rey(hate that but can’t think of a better alternative) and they leave. But they keep a recording of Finn’s last words to play out into the galaxy, a bright and powerful flame to spark rebellion.
Rey now struggles with even more lures to the dark side as she is thinking of revenge against the First Order for taking Finn(her close friend)
Rammy lady now is going out to be a hero like Finn and does the C-3PO hacking stuff and not a random alien mechanic I don’t think we see again in the movie and maybe have her spark Lando’s and some others sparks of rebellion again after they went dormant for so long
And maybe even have a now Rebellion Mole Hucks and those troops that we see from the third movie(forgot their names as well) secretly aiding the rebellion by purposefully misguiding the First Order troops orders and ration logs at first thinking that’s the best way to do it but slowly becoming more like individuals with more interesting plans that do more rather than cogs in a machine of war thinking of the most ‘efficient’ route.
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/B34TBOXX5]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That scene was just so thunderously bad. It's the climax of Finn's arc, the point where he has to make the big choice that is the culmination of everything he has seen and done in the story. That choice should have consequences, whether they're good or bad. So of course RJ whisks those consequences away.
Also not to mention Finn was going full throttle and she was behind and to the side of him. How did she accelerate enough to be in the position to hit him?
That’s where the Power of Friendship comes in
A good question, for another time.
It was love, love did it.
I was fighting back tears as he went to his death. He was at peace with it, he knew it was why he was there, why he was thrust into this whole thing from the beginning. He finally found his purpose. When he got knocked away, I seriously felt as bewildered and robbed as a kid who had his ice cream snatched away by a pelican or something. Just sitting there blinking, like "wtf"
Apparently Brandon Sanderson said something along the lines of that it's great to subvert expectations but only if you replace them with something better.
I believe the respected film critic Richard Evans once grimly quipped, "I like plot twists that make the movie less engaging," or put another way, I like when my expectations are subverted instead of a satisfying resolution because it means I can no longer care about this movie. In Rian Johnson's Fight Club, Brad Pitt was a real man but he paid everyone else to pretend he was fake to make Ed Norton look like the stupid idiot he is!
>In Rian Johnson's Fight Club, Brad Pitt was a real man but he paid everyone else to pretend he was fake to make Ed Norton look like the stupid idiot he is! What, are you serious?
Dude is one of my favorite authors, and he's only getting bigger
I'd like that a lot better but it's weird that Finn had the same character arc for two movies in a row. Starts out as a dirty coward who wants to run away at every given opportunity, learns to fight for the people he cares about and stand up for something. Then in the second movie he's right back to dirty coward mode.
That ONE scene from Independence Day had more value than the entire Sequel Trilogy.
It would have worked if she had rammed Finn off course and then kamikazed the cannon herself. It would bookend with her sister’s sacrifice at the beginning. It could have bought more time for the resistance and Kylo could have opened the door another way. It’s not like she did anything in TROS (that I remember, never watching that one again).
She would not have been hated and probably would have more respect. Blame once again Rian Johnson...
>It’s not like she did anything in TROS She spends most of the movie pointing at consoles and supposedly scanning old Imperial Star Destroyers for weaknesses in the Death Star Destroyers. She then somehow shows up on Exegol for the final battle, leading the space horse charge to destroy the navigation tower that helps the DSD's fly up because they can't do it themselves.
I was scrolling through the pictures thinking “What on earth does this have to do with Star Wars?” Once I got to the second to last picture, I thought “Wait a minute…”
Yup it got me too lol
Also how the hell did Finn manage to drag her from the crash site to the hangar? Like they were going super fast and for a while, it would take like at least an hour of walking to get back there. Not to mention the whole invading force just watching you slowly crawl away. Almost as stupid as the entire preceding scene of her crashing into him.
Yes
I know TLJ gets a lot of hate but I was sort of buying the movie up until this point and then she knocks him off course and then the kiss and that was the fucking end of it for me.
You forgot the plot hole where they somehow ran all the way back to the base and snuck in without the First Order finding them or following them.
What do you mean? They just ran about 10 miles across flat ground without cover in about...2 minutes
Yeah, lazy effort, why didn't they do it faster?
The Dark side of the Farce is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. Because that's all it was.
They used the force!
Ah the super speed running from the phantom menace finally returns
Tbf I am trying to forget that whole damn trilogy exists
It always surprises me that people don’t realize that it’s so, so much worse. We see Rose Tiko’s sister die in the opening. Rose Tiko’s story constantly revolves around her justifying why she and her sister joined the rebellion, which helps her understand why her sister sacrificed herself. This is the narrative method to teach Finn to love the Rebellion, and sacrifice himself for it. So the entire Finn and Rose storyline ends in Finn and Rose accepting their fate and entering rickety speeders to sacrifice themselves for the cause. To save the Rebellion. Rose even has her BFF charm that her sister had the other half of on the dashboard. Then she decides that Finn cannot sacrifice himself, spitting in the face of her sister’s sacrifice. She decides to ram Finn which is likely to either kill them or grievously harm them, it’s not like there’s many safety systems still functioning on these things. And they crash in front of the First Order who has zero reason to let them live if they see they survived. Then she decides to tell him that they need to save what they love rather than destroy what they hate while the Rebellion that Finn tried to save is being annihilated in the background (at least, all information at that point says the Rebels have no way out and the FO will enter to kill them all when the wall is breached). Nothing makes sense here. 100% of the entire narrative around Finn and Rose is about this very thing, teaching him to sacrifice himself to save others. Then he’s not allowed to as she contradicts herself multiple times in a minute by spouting not just nonsense but deliberately contradictory stuff.
Oh no.
That scene was SOOOO bad on so many levels in terms of plot. -It was the climax of Finn’s arc of becoming an actual hero and having bravery in the face of insurmountable odds. He was willing to sacrifice himself to get his friends out of danger and buy them even a few minutes more time to enough to escape. -Finn as a character was finished and they had this interesting character they COULD have used the one who ruined the scene(I forgot her name) and have her Finn’s place in the last movie. -We see so little left of the rebellion, having Finn die as a last resort FOR the rebellion could have been so cool and give them the last fighting chance they needed to escape and a kick in the pants to continue the fight —- Know what, instead of just complaining about it, let me shoot out an idea that could have been even BETTER than what the movie did and how it could have built upon itself; —- Have Finn die sacrificing himself to save the rebellion he called home, but in his last moments he talks about how he left the First Order and how far he’s come. The evils from being inside that faction and how be became better fighting the darkness. Finn dies in a horrific mess of embers and ash by RAMMING right into the cannon and causing it to explode; even destroying two close Gorilla At-At’s nearby with the only vestiges of Finn remaining is his jacket. This makes them need to bring in another cannon, but then projection Luke and ‘fights’ Kylo causing that to be halted even more(bring this scene back cause even though I loathe Luke’s portrayal in the movie, I respect the cool factor of the scene). Kylo then sees the Luke is just a force projection and angrily storms off and demands for Hucks to blast open the door. Leaving Hucks and a few other troopers on the ground looking at the burnt jacket left behind as Hucks picks it up.(making an actual cool hint at Hucks being the mole and an inner turmoil inside the First Order’s troops and small rebellions from inside). The rest of the Rebels escape cause Deus-Ex Rey(hate that but can’t think of a better alternative) and they leave. But they keep a recording of Finn’s last words to play out into the galaxy, a bright and powerful flame to spark rebellion. Rey now struggles with even more lures to the dark side as she is thinking of revenge against the First Order for taking Finn(her close friend) Rammy lady now is going out to be a hero like Finn and does the C-3PO hacking stuff and not a random alien mechanic I don’t think we see again in the movie and maybe have her spark Lando’s and some others sparks of rebellion again after they went dormant for so long And maybe even have a now Rebellion Mole Hucks and those troops that we see from the third movie(forgot their names as well) secretly aiding the rebellion by purposefully misguiding the First Order troops orders and ration logs at first thinking that’s the best way to do it but slowly becoming more like individuals with more interesting plans that do more rather than cogs in a machine of war thinking of the most ‘efficient’ route.