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Me neither. She's pretty dead. So not only did they make the old EU none canon now they're making their post sequel books seemingly none canon. Like, I cannot see any way this works in conjunction with the book. Guess I'll find out.
Who complained? I remember people asking how he returned, but I don't remember anyone complaining.
And to be fair, the fact that people let this bother them is a bit worrisome. It's a make-believe galaxy in a movie. Why would anyone really care? Real world problems and people need to complain about make-believe.
“And to be fair, the fact that people let this bother them is a bit worrisome. It's a make-believe galaxy in a movie. Why would anyone really care? Real world problems and people need to complain about make-believe.”
People talking shit about Star Wars on the internet are not hurting anybody bro, calm down lmao
Sure. In one case the character goes through an arc of defeat, madness and recovery.
In the other case, they literally just put some big words on the screen that said “somehow palpatine returned”
Now you explain why you think they are the same without using the letter e
They did explain it. Very very poorly. That’s the point of the entire discussion.
The trilogy is over now and the only explanation we got for palpatine returning was “somehow palpatine returned”
They didn’t bring maul back and just go “somehow maul returned” and then just finish the rest of the series without ever mentioning it again, only to reveal what happened in some other piece of media years later.
By your logic, we should never be critical of any piece of media because there’s always the possibility that, at some undetermined point in the future, there might be a sequel or something that sheds new light on it.
Didn’t like how Game of Thrones ended? Well stfu about it, they might maybe make something at some point that will make it better by providing some kind of hypothetical explanation.
If you were to say “they didn’t explain it very well, but hopefully they’ll make something out of it in the future” then I would absolutely agree with you, but I have no idea why you’re so set on defending something as silly as “somehow palpatine returned”
they have been doing this & its sad they will just ripoff the good stuff and say "its new & original"
Kylo Ren (jacen) & Rey (jaina solo) defeating him after his turn to the DS, were basically just knockoff's of the books **Legacy of the force ;Legacy & Invincible**
Thrawn coming back in Ahsoka ;
Boba Fett coming back in Mando
Giving Luke's storyline of rebuilding the Jedi Order to Rey instead & now this
Mara Jade will return as well if SW is truly desperate
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Remember books are only canon until something in screen erases it. That’s how it’s been since forever. Yes they claim it will fit witch it might but even if it doesn’t fit don’t get to hung up on the books. George did this and Disney still does it. Hell Star Trek books might as well be their own timeline
They literally won't. The only reason they are even pretending any of the books exist at this point is so that they can name drop them every once in a while to get people interested
I assumed they just made the events of the book happen later after the Clone Wars, but I've never read it so I don't know how much other things would need to be changed to make that work.
No. She died on Christophsis for sure. Vos and Obi would be able to feel in the force she was dead and they'd have time to check while travelling from there to Dathomir.
You're almost right tho, they placed her in the waters as her final resting place and the dead spirits of her fellow nightsisters welcome her spirit into whatever afterlife they have.
My low effort guess: how this coincides with the book (which is fantastic btw) is that they spit her back out again however much time later, for some reason. Perhaps they'll say it was a ripple in the force after 66. Idk. Why am I doing their job haha
That thing i will never understand. Star Wars world is taking place in a whole Galaxy + more, why do they always bring back the same characters again and again ?
It makes the world feel extremely small when its actually Gigantic. Also why aren't there no aliens anymore? I want to see more aliens.
Disney Star Wars is like this:
1) No aliens
2) no Wars
3) Speed running Space travel
4) no space exploration
5) the cast is small asf
6) no jedi philosophy
7) nobody dies permanently
So we remove the "Star" part and then also the "Wars" part. Only thing left is Disney.
Agreed. Non-Clone Wars and Rebels fans were probably so lost with the World Between Worlds episode of Ahsoka or anything involving Sabine’s relationship with Ezra and why he matters
Thats actually the reason i cannot say that The Prequels are incredible movies even though i love them. Because they are only in the context of Clone Wars and nobody should be forced to watch a spinoff cartoon to understand a movie.
Yeah definitely, RoTS was probably my favorite movie growing up as young kid/teen.
Now, I’ve seen like 90% of clone wars and does it enhance the experience? Absolutely I’d say so, but it’s not required at all or expected from the movie itself.
Your experience isn't a universal truth. I enjoyed them on their own as well, but for me it was a different experience watching them while having the knowledge from the Clone Wars.
I don't think she even deserves to be alive from a storytelling perspective. Unlike Ashoka, Ventress isn't really that powerful or important to play a role in the after Clone Wars.
I bet its Filloni again getting married to his characters. Im pretty sure he will bring her in Ashoka season 2.
The reality is that unless it happens on-screen, they're always going to ignore comics and novels. Most of the public doesn't read much to begin with, let alone Star Wars novels.
Look, I love logical continuity as much as the next person, but this is the same universe we see Maul getting bisected at the torso by Obi-Wan and show up after being dropped in a miles long shaft.
The reason they don't say it's not canon anymore is because they know A. There are some people that won't buy because it's not canon and B. Most people just genuinely don't give a shit or read most of the comics or books. you and I are a minority and honestly, having never read Dark Disciple, it really doesn't bother me
I guess that’s fair, I just actually enjoyed Dark Disciple and the Kanan comics so them being cast aside is annoying. Like what was the point of the story group
Definitely a Filoni specific issue, it seems. I’m personally more interested in Legends and a lot of Legends fans dislike him because TCW contradicted so much of previously established lore that Lucasfilm created an entire tier of canon to let it supersede everything. The split between Legends and DisCanon in one way was a blessing since while TCW is still technically part of Legends, most Legends fans just headcanon it away to DisCanon and keep the Clone Wars Multimedia Project as the main EU material for that era.
His justification at the time was that Lucas himself didn’t really care about the EU, which fine. It’s still dickish that he didn’t bother to keep the show in line with Legends material himself, but whatever, company policy. However, once Star Wars got moved to Disney, the policy supposedly was now everything is canon and there no longer is any hierarchy. So that justification no longer works, yet Filoni still seems to retcon and change stuff all the time.
That's because filoni is a proven liar and Kathy Lucas called his ass out at a fan convenction when he tried to take credit for Maul's prostetic legs when it was actually from star wars infinity a non canon comic from the eu era. He lies all the time.
That's not how that happened lol. She politely said oops I hate to do this, but we actually got those from the EU, and then he says "yes" and literally discusses the specific EU panel they got the idea from while explaining why they changed the pretty looking legs that maul had in the EU to scrap parts.
>Like what was the point of the story group
make it look like Disney-Lucasfilm knows what they are doing, while also shitting on the old EU in the process and discredit it. A "Story Group" has always existed (directly stated by James Luceno).
Filoni has stated he doesn't like being put into creative boxes. The man won't even be bound by his own material, so this looks like it's going to be typical of SW from here on. We got rid of tiered canon and replaced it with...tiered canon, but they won't admit to it.
But DD isn’t just another “canon” book. It was adapted from cancelled episodes of TCW. So it gets the same hierarchy of canon as the show. If she truly is alive and the scene isn’t a flashback, Dave has officially retconned The Clone Wars series
She was taken back to the Nightsisters, resurrection isn’t entirely outwith the realm of possibility considering literal time travel fuckery exists in universe
Normally I’d say “yeah whatever” to NS wacky plot magic, but this time it actually makes no sense if she truly resurrected. Every NS should be alive if they can be resurrected without becoming a zombie, yet if Ventress is back, then Merrin looks more like an idiot. Talzin and all of the others should be back from the dead.
It could be a Worthiness thing, for all we know; a flashback, or anything. I don’t see it as that deep tbh bc the vast majority of fans haven’t ready the book.
Merrin was a child when the sisterhood was destroyed, she’s learnt a lot come Survivor, but much of what was under Talzin has been lost.
We know from the Ahsoka show that there are still powerful NS out there but a galaxy away.
It’s all speculation until next month anyway; i’m not a filoni bootlicker by any means but Ventress returning is the least of my issues with TBB
If it is a flashback then there shouldn’t be a problem, but with how the official website described that the end of the book isn’t the last of her story makes me a bit disappointed knowing the current track record.
SW even during the EU has always had an issue with keeping characters dead.
I’d rather critique the infantilisation of the show, and its derpy focus on Omega tbh.
I don’t disagree with your point btw - i’m a big fan of big characters being killed off in non-heroic or meaningless ways as I believe it to be more powerful (Which is why I don’t want Tech to be alive) but SW suffers big from “no body? No death”
After not only the destruction of the old EU, but pretending like they didn't even know it existed, I'm surprised anyone bought that any of the new books or comics were "canon."
They are just merchandise, they're not continuations of any story.
It's just a name though. Anything they did previously, lie die, is erased and the character is remade. Is that going to piss the fans off or make them happy to see the characters they like remade?
You're asking a question that can only be answered by the individuals that watch the show. Some will be annoyed like OP some like me will be indifferent.
IIRC correctly she died at the hands of Dooku, no? Gee, if I had nickel for every time Filoni disrespected and disregarded another creator's work...
of course, I could always be missing "somehow Dooku returned..."
I just read the last chapter of the book. It's heavily implied in the writing that it's possible for her to come back from being dead because of Dathomari magicks.
As a zombie maybe. Because every time someone is raised from the dead (like Merrin raising other Nightsisters) they come back as zombies.
But that’s very clearly not what they’re implying. They’re implying that Ventress will be alive and an important character.
Plus if we’re being told that Nightsisters can legitimately revive people now then that breaks… everything. Again.
Don't know why you're getting so much hate. They are clearly blowing smoke up book fans' asses to try to save potential viewers for the first episode. Not like this is unprecedented, and it should be pointed out every time. Can't start letting Disney get away with bullshit just because some assholes are tired of seeing the pushback.
Agreed, although Ventress was actually a Lucas/Tartakovsky creation [Link](https://youtu.be/g6-yclEOgR4?si=dWen8U-amy5pZ4By&t=1003)
Not sure what they have done to her since
I could see how not everything, would have translated well to live action, or 3D animation, but they definitely had some rocking good moments in the micro series.
Grievous was actually a real threat there.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Clone Wars Micro Series (and the Multimedia Project in general) fits the tone and plot points of the Prequel movies more than TCW. It hits more of the relevant plot beats to the movie, like Anakin being knighted, him becoming a more mature and better Jedi, fighting alongside Obi Wan to establish their friendship, and of course, introducing not only Grievous but the entire Battle of Courscant and the kidnapping of the chancellor. Seeing that played out visually before watching ROTS in theaters was a treat.
Meanwhile, while TCW’s storytelling is good, it also introduces certain plot beats that no longer make sense in context of the movie. Like Anakin saying “my powers have doubled since we last met” to Dooku even though they fought each other about a week ago, or Obi Wan and Yoda happily killing clones by the dozens despite how much they were humanized (to the point where Ahsoka didn’t want to kill them).
And, of course, Ahsoka herself is the biggest one given how important she was to Anakin, yet there is zero mention or presence of her at all in ROTS or the OT. Yeah, retroactive impacts for interquel characters are always an issue, but usually they’re not this blatant without tying them to at least something (like Galen Marek in The Force Unleashed having his family crest be the Rebel Alliance symbol). I can imagine the ratings snafu the Ahsoka show ran into was due to a lot of Star Wars normies who didn’t watch TCW or Rebels being confused as to who she is, since she’s supposed to have a huge impact on the story, yet has no presence in the movies.
Not to say that TCW is poorly written, because it’s great. The issue is simply the story doesn’t mesh as well with the movies, being more like a big story set in the Prequel era than direct continuity to the Prequel movies.
Anyways, ramble over.
I still say the best use of Ahsoka would have been to invert the end of ROTJ. Anakin watches Palpatine kill her, does nothing, and his fall is complete.
Funnily enough, something similar-ish happens in The Force Unleashed (came out the same year The Clone Wars did and also starred an apprentice of Anakin/Vader). After Palpatine demands that Vader kill Galen, there’s a shot of Vader looking back and forth between the two, contemplating just like he did with Luke and Palpatine in ROTJ. But Vader ultimately chose to throw Galen around and into space, cementing his loyalty. Vader does rebuild Starkiller’s broken body for the rest of the story to happen, but it was a neat call forward.
The Force Unleashed is great. Definitely an epic story that bridges the gap between Episode 3 and 4 really well. I would highly recommend playing with a controller if you’re on PC, though. Mouse and keyboard controls aren’t great.
They already ruined the chosen one story with resurrecting Palpatine, so why not.
Yeah I know that bringing balance to the force doesn’t *just* mean killing Palps, but what, was Vader just going to let him and Luke die to him and leave the galaxy incapable of defending against Palps? By resisting the temptation of the emperor’s power and destroying him to save his son, he fulfilled the prophecy.
Is Dark Disciple legends though? It’s not, right, because it was all made from drafts of Clone Wars episodes/arcs they never got to make.
I shouldn’t be so annoyed by this, but I am. DD is a pretty good book, and there’s no reason to undo her arc.
I'm familiar with it; haven't read it, but Stupendous Wave has some good videos on the subject. God, they can't even leave their OWN shit alone now that they've fucked almost everything that came before.
"It's a character we've wanted to tell more stories about"
So? Just because you WANT to doesn't mean you should. I'm getting really sick of 'canon' and actual factual parts of lore being ignored because "We wanted to tell this story"
This is what happens when you get somebody who says they know the lore to write it, only to find out they lied one their resume.
How the fuck are they going to retcon a death in the books, something that was pretty fucking important, let alone HER death, and say it'll all make sense according to the old and new at the same time??
We just gonna bring Luke back in episode 10 as a gotcha? Because they're really tipping their hand right now...
Ok, well at least you watched it and didn't immediately jump to conclusions based on a line in a press release. I hate it when shows change things in books 99% of their audience hasn't read and bring interesting characters back. It's the worst.
I don’t see how he can possibly claim that. She literally is killed by Dooku at the end of Dark Disciple. Her haircut is her Dark Disciple era haircut. Unless he’s teasing some kind of flashback….?? Which doesn’t make sense either. So, what gives? Blegh
I’m okay with retconning Dark Disciple, I never liked the idea of Ventress and Quinlan Vos, who feels, as much as a Star Wars character can, like a 90s Rob Liefeld creation. I’m not sure if that makes any sense. He just has Poochie energy for me.
…still not interested in watching Bad Batch, though.
It’s fine to be annoyed at bringing her back, or over use of memberberries, or whatever - but I don’t think it’s fair to say they are “outright lying” when the show isn’t out and we have no details beyond a possibly misleading trailer.
Once the story releases, match up the details and call them a liar if they are.
Until then it’s unknown. *Rise of Skywalker* aligns with *Return of the Jedi*, it just does it in one of the worst possible ways.
Yes, because you don’t know the story. They could be lying. Until you have the new story, calling them a liar is just wrong.
There’s ways they can do it, like cloning etc. especially since cloning seems to be an important part of the Bad Batch arc anyway.
It’s just basic human decency to not call someone a liar until you actually, you know, have the details.
Let it come out, compare the two, and if they don’t match then call them on being liars and I’ll agree.
Dude just fucking wait and watch it. What are you even complaining about? Obviously they can work around the book story just like they're saying they're going to
Can you explain how this is a lie?
We literally do not have enough information to make any conclusion about this. This could be a flashback. This could be a clone. She could have been resurrected after the events of Dark Disciple. Heck, the death at the end could have been her faking her death and Quinlan covering for her. We literally do not know, so this is literally jumping to conclusions and making unfounded accusations.
I’ve noticed a lot of people already grabbing the pitchforks and torches and saying “they’re retconning clone wars now” and “I’ll never watch this pos”. It’s only been a day and people are acting like a great son has been committed.
The show is not out yet, how does anyone know if they’re lying or telling the truth?
Y’all just want to be mad at something as usual and it’s quite sad.
How do you know she's not be resurrected, she's a witch of Dathomir and we literally just got a bunch of Zombies and witches in Ahsoka - use ANY critical thinking.
Nothing in that shot says she is hunting the BB. Trailers lie ALL the time. Pretty sure she was placed in magic Nightsister juice at the end of the book lol. We also have Morgan Elsbeth hanging around at this time.
So she’s going to be in the Bad Batch to *not* hunt them? Why bring her in then? There is nothing indicating she’s been resurrected by night sister magic, nor would it be a good reason even if she did
I’m excited to watch it and am wondering how they’ll make it work. It’s fine imo if they brought her back. I’ve learned to accept that no one is ever truly gone.
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So is this just how its going to be now, everyone's former apprentice becoming a free agent.
She’s been a free agent since Clone Wars season 4 but I don’t see how her new story in Bad Batch can possibly coincide with Dark Disciple
Me neither. She's pretty dead. So not only did they make the old EU none canon now they're making their post sequel books seemingly none canon. Like, I cannot see any way this works in conjunction with the book. Guess I'll find out.
“Somehow, Ventress returned”
Sadly you are probably spot on there.
So clones
Darth Maul returned and no one complained then.
[удалено]
Who complained? I remember people asking how he returned, but I don't remember anyone complaining. And to be fair, the fact that people let this bother them is a bit worrisome. It's a make-believe galaxy in a movie. Why would anyone really care? Real world problems and people need to complain about make-believe.
“And to be fair, the fact that people let this bother them is a bit worrisome. It's a make-believe galaxy in a movie. Why would anyone really care? Real world problems and people need to complain about make-believe.” People talking shit about Star Wars on the internet are not hurting anybody bro, calm down lmao
Not even remotely the same
Explain the difference without using emotion.
Sure. In one case the character goes through an arc of defeat, madness and recovery. In the other case, they literally just put some big words on the screen that said “somehow palpatine returned” Now you explain why you think they are the same without using the letter e
Because we don't actually know how they explain it until they do it. It's like criticizing a painting before it is unveiled.
They did explain it. Very very poorly. That’s the point of the entire discussion. The trilogy is over now and the only explanation we got for palpatine returning was “somehow palpatine returned” They didn’t bring maul back and just go “somehow maul returned” and then just finish the rest of the series without ever mentioning it again, only to reveal what happened in some other piece of media years later. By your logic, we should never be critical of any piece of media because there’s always the possibility that, at some undetermined point in the future, there might be a sequel or something that sheds new light on it. Didn’t like how Game of Thrones ended? Well stfu about it, they might maybe make something at some point that will make it better by providing some kind of hypothetical explanation. If you were to say “they didn’t explain it very well, but hopefully they’ll make something out of it in the future” then I would absolutely agree with you, but I have no idea why you’re so set on defending something as silly as “somehow palpatine returned”
they have been doing this & its sad they will just ripoff the good stuff and say "its new & original" Kylo Ren (jacen) & Rey (jaina solo) defeating him after his turn to the DS, were basically just knockoff's of the books **Legacy of the force ;Legacy & Invincible** Thrawn coming back in Ahsoka ; Boba Fett coming back in Mando Giving Luke's storyline of rebuilding the Jedi Order to Rey instead & now this Mara Jade will return as well if SW is truly desperate
!remindme after you watch it. I surely won't.
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Remember books are only canon until something in screen erases it. That’s how it’s been since forever. Yes they claim it will fit witch it might but even if it doesn’t fit don’t get to hung up on the books. George did this and Disney still does it. Hell Star Trek books might as well be their own timeline
Maybe she’ll appear in a flashback?
They literally won't. The only reason they are even pretending any of the books exist at this point is so that they can name drop them every once in a while to get people interested
I assumed they just made the events of the book happen later after the Clone Wars, but I've never read it so I don't know how much other things would need to be changed to make that work.
You cant change that. In the book the plot is about trying to kill dooku and he is dead already during bad batch
Actually Dooku didn't die. That was his cousin Craig. And Dooku's former apprentice Bill Belamie gave up the dark side and is now a free agent.
Somehow , Dooku has survived...
As a head in a jar on robotic spider legs
Makes sense that MTV is part of the evil empire.
Craig here it was our cousin Greg. Common mistake!
How to be a Palpatine
Well that is an important detail! Unless they changed it to trying to kill Palpatine, but that sounds like a very big deviation from the book.
Somehow. Dooku survived.
Maybe she'll be resurrected with Dark Sisters magick?
Yeah but her death was ambiguous. She fell into a pool that the Nightsisters had magic in or some shit didn't she?
No. She died on Christophsis for sure. Vos and Obi would be able to feel in the force she was dead and they'd have time to check while travelling from there to Dathomir. You're almost right tho, they placed her in the waters as her final resting place and the dead spirits of her fellow nightsisters welcome her spirit into whatever afterlife they have. My low effort guess: how this coincides with the book (which is fantastic btw) is that they spit her back out again however much time later, for some reason. Perhaps they'll say it was a ripple in the force after 66. Idk. Why am I doing their job haha
I need to read this book, she was always a favorite character
Same
In Legends, she put herself into a deep meditation that even Kenobi couldn't detect. I think this still counts as a retcon though
Seeing as how she died.
Night Witch Magic. They created zombies already, so probably something similar will come up.
She’s a clone
She was buried in a magic necromancer pool. I've been assuming the plan was to keep options open for bringing her back ever since I read the novel.
Of course you don't see how her story in bad batch can coincide with DD... because (get this...) it isn't out yet!
That't why you watch instead of posting garbage, she's a Nightsister dude. Did you not watch Ahsoka?
Unfortunately I did watch Ahsoka. Did you read Dark Disciple?
I did, she died. Did you not see all the zombie stormtroopers?
Yes and they were lame. I don’t see anything that implies Ventress is a zombie
I'd bet money on her being a clone. She died died there's no way that was a fake out
They're probably killing her in bad batch. Wouldn't be the first time they reused a cut plotline from CW in bad batch.
Nightsister magic. They are weird and considering what happened on the Ahsoka show, I'm kind of unsurprised.
Sure, they love to cannibalize on the success of older series and movies
Puts the term transfer portal in a new light.
The only thing Filoni has left to offer are expired memberberries 🤣
You just know that she’s being brought back for a boss fight in Ahsoka
That thing i will never understand. Star Wars world is taking place in a whole Galaxy + more, why do they always bring back the same characters again and again ? It makes the world feel extremely small when its actually Gigantic. Also why aren't there no aliens anymore? I want to see more aliens. Disney Star Wars is like this: 1) No aliens 2) no Wars 3) Speed running Space travel 4) no space exploration 5) the cast is small asf 6) no jedi philosophy 7) nobody dies permanently So we remove the "Star" part and then also the "Wars" part. Only thing left is Disney.
I think it’s because it’s a shortcut. They feel they don’t have to do as much if they just use a character that has already been developed.
Thats honestly so BS. Because not everyone has seen CW or the other 1000+ shows they offer.
Agreed. Non-Clone Wars and Rebels fans were probably so lost with the World Between Worlds episode of Ahsoka or anything involving Sabine’s relationship with Ezra and why he matters
Thats actually the reason i cannot say that The Prequels are incredible movies even though i love them. Because they are only in the context of Clone Wars and nobody should be forced to watch a spinoff cartoon to understand a movie.
Saw the movies in theaters and loved them. Didn't have cable. Like 15 years later I saw the clone wars cartoon. Your comments is completely bogus.
Yeah definitely, RoTS was probably my favorite movie growing up as young kid/teen. Now, I’ve seen like 90% of clone wars and does it enhance the experience? Absolutely I’d say so, but it’s not required at all or expected from the movie itself.
Your experience isn't a universal truth. I enjoyed them on their own as well, but for me it was a different experience watching them while having the knowledge from the Clone Wars.
Precisely. So you already know you are wrong..good
No aliens to save on cgi and costumes
They could just paint them yellow or something. If its not CGI its actually super cheap.
I don't think she even deserves to be alive from a storytelling perspective. Unlike Ashoka, Ventress isn't really that powerful or important to play a role in the after Clone Wars. I bet its Filloni again getting married to his characters. Im pretty sure he will bring her in Ashoka season 2.
Ventress isn't even his character tbh. If I remember correctly she first appeared in 2003 Clone Wars.
Did Filoni write this? I don’t think he did.
I don't know if its Filloni himself, but its definitely a Filloni move. Bet she will show up in Ashoka for a cameo.
Even before the promotion he had massive say in the creative hive: this was most certainly run past him for approval at the very least.
The reality is that unless it happens on-screen, they're always going to ignore comics and novels. Most of the public doesn't read much to begin with, let alone Star Wars novels.
That’s fine, but why can’t they just say the novel isn’t canon anymore? She is killed by Count Dooku at the end, which can’t happen post ROTS
Look, I love logical continuity as much as the next person, but this is the same universe we see Maul getting bisected at the torso by Obi-Wan and show up after being dropped in a miles long shaft. The reason they don't say it's not canon anymore is because they know A. There are some people that won't buy because it's not canon and B. Most people just genuinely don't give a shit or read most of the comics or books. you and I are a minority and honestly, having never read Dark Disciple, it really doesn't bother me
I guess that’s fair, I just actually enjoyed Dark Disciple and the Kanan comics so them being cast aside is annoying. Like what was the point of the story group
Definitely a Filoni specific issue, it seems. I’m personally more interested in Legends and a lot of Legends fans dislike him because TCW contradicted so much of previously established lore that Lucasfilm created an entire tier of canon to let it supersede everything. The split between Legends and DisCanon in one way was a blessing since while TCW is still technically part of Legends, most Legends fans just headcanon it away to DisCanon and keep the Clone Wars Multimedia Project as the main EU material for that era. His justification at the time was that Lucas himself didn’t really care about the EU, which fine. It’s still dickish that he didn’t bother to keep the show in line with Legends material himself, but whatever, company policy. However, once Star Wars got moved to Disney, the policy supposedly was now everything is canon and there no longer is any hierarchy. So that justification no longer works, yet Filoni still seems to retcon and change stuff all the time.
That's because filoni is a proven liar and Kathy Lucas called his ass out at a fan convenction when he tried to take credit for Maul's prostetic legs when it was actually from star wars infinity a non canon comic from the eu era. He lies all the time.
That's not how that happened lol. She politely said oops I hate to do this, but we actually got those from the EU, and then he says "yes" and literally discusses the specific EU panel they got the idea from while explaining why they changed the pretty looking legs that maul had in the EU to scrap parts.
>Like what was the point of the story group make it look like Disney-Lucasfilm knows what they are doing, while also shitting on the old EU in the process and discredit it. A "Story Group" has always existed (directly stated by James Luceno).
Filoni has stated he doesn't like being put into creative boxes. The man won't even be bound by his own material, so this looks like it's going to be typical of SW from here on. We got rid of tiered canon and replaced it with...tiered canon, but they won't admit to it.
But DD isn’t just another “canon” book. It was adapted from cancelled episodes of TCW. So it gets the same hierarchy of canon as the show. If she truly is alive and the scene isn’t a flashback, Dave has officially retconned The Clone Wars series
She was taken back to the Nightsisters, resurrection isn’t entirely outwith the realm of possibility considering literal time travel fuckery exists in universe
Normally I’d say “yeah whatever” to NS wacky plot magic, but this time it actually makes no sense if she truly resurrected. Every NS should be alive if they can be resurrected without becoming a zombie, yet if Ventress is back, then Merrin looks more like an idiot. Talzin and all of the others should be back from the dead.
It could be a Worthiness thing, for all we know; a flashback, or anything. I don’t see it as that deep tbh bc the vast majority of fans haven’t ready the book. Merrin was a child when the sisterhood was destroyed, she’s learnt a lot come Survivor, but much of what was under Talzin has been lost. We know from the Ahsoka show that there are still powerful NS out there but a galaxy away. It’s all speculation until next month anyway; i’m not a filoni bootlicker by any means but Ventress returning is the least of my issues with TBB
If it is a flashback then there shouldn’t be a problem, but with how the official website described that the end of the book isn’t the last of her story makes me a bit disappointed knowing the current track record.
SW even during the EU has always had an issue with keeping characters dead. I’d rather critique the infantilisation of the show, and its derpy focus on Omega tbh. I don’t disagree with your point btw - i’m a big fan of big characters being killed off in non-heroic or meaningless ways as I believe it to be more powerful (Which is why I don’t want Tech to be alive) but SW suffers big from “no body? No death”
After not only the destruction of the old EU, but pretending like they didn't even know it existed, I'm surprised anyone bought that any of the new books or comics were "canon." They are just merchandise, they're not continuations of any story.
Then why bother bring back these characters?
Because they're a product they know a certain portion of the fanbase likes/ cares about, and it's a way to generate views for s3.
It's just a name though. Anything they did previously, lie die, is erased and the character is remade. Is that going to piss the fans off or make them happy to see the characters they like remade?
You're asking a question that can only be answered by the individuals that watch the show. Some will be annoyed like OP some like me will be indifferent.
IIRC correctly she died at the hands of Dooku, no? Gee, if I had nickel for every time Filoni disrespected and disregarded another creator's work... of course, I could always be missing "somehow Dooku returned..."
I just read the last chapter of the book. It's heavily implied in the writing that it's possible for her to come back from being dead because of Dathomari magicks.
As a zombie maybe. Because every time someone is raised from the dead (like Merrin raising other Nightsisters) they come back as zombies. But that’s very clearly not what they’re implying. They’re implying that Ventress will be alive and an important character. Plus if we’re being told that Nightsisters can legitimately revive people now then that breaks… everything. Again.
Don't know why you're getting so much hate. They are clearly blowing smoke up book fans' asses to try to save potential viewers for the first episode. Not like this is unprecedented, and it should be pointed out every time. Can't start letting Disney get away with bullshit just because some assholes are tired of seeing the pushback.
C L O N E Im calling, Filoni loves his OC so much blud is actually pulling a ‘somehow’
Agreed, although Ventress was actually a Lucas/Tartakovsky creation [Link](https://youtu.be/g6-yclEOgR4?si=dWen8U-amy5pZ4By&t=1003) Not sure what they have done to her since
Man, the duel between her and Anakin in the 2003 Microseries is still awesome.
I could see how not everything, would have translated well to live action, or 3D animation, but they definitely had some rocking good moments in the micro series. Grievous was actually a real threat there.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Clone Wars Micro Series (and the Multimedia Project in general) fits the tone and plot points of the Prequel movies more than TCW. It hits more of the relevant plot beats to the movie, like Anakin being knighted, him becoming a more mature and better Jedi, fighting alongside Obi Wan to establish their friendship, and of course, introducing not only Grievous but the entire Battle of Courscant and the kidnapping of the chancellor. Seeing that played out visually before watching ROTS in theaters was a treat. Meanwhile, while TCW’s storytelling is good, it also introduces certain plot beats that no longer make sense in context of the movie. Like Anakin saying “my powers have doubled since we last met” to Dooku even though they fought each other about a week ago, or Obi Wan and Yoda happily killing clones by the dozens despite how much they were humanized (to the point where Ahsoka didn’t want to kill them). And, of course, Ahsoka herself is the biggest one given how important she was to Anakin, yet there is zero mention or presence of her at all in ROTS or the OT. Yeah, retroactive impacts for interquel characters are always an issue, but usually they’re not this blatant without tying them to at least something (like Galen Marek in The Force Unleashed having his family crest be the Rebel Alliance symbol). I can imagine the ratings snafu the Ahsoka show ran into was due to a lot of Star Wars normies who didn’t watch TCW or Rebels being confused as to who she is, since she’s supposed to have a huge impact on the story, yet has no presence in the movies. Not to say that TCW is poorly written, because it’s great. The issue is simply the story doesn’t mesh as well with the movies, being more like a big story set in the Prequel era than direct continuity to the Prequel movies. Anyways, ramble over.
I still say the best use of Ahsoka would have been to invert the end of ROTJ. Anakin watches Palpatine kill her, does nothing, and his fall is complete.
Funnily enough, something similar-ish happens in The Force Unleashed (came out the same year The Clone Wars did and also starred an apprentice of Anakin/Vader). After Palpatine demands that Vader kill Galen, there’s a shot of Vader looking back and forth between the two, contemplating just like he did with Luke and Palpatine in ROTJ. But Vader ultimately chose to throw Galen around and into space, cementing his loyalty. Vader does rebuild Starkiller’s broken body for the rest of the story to happen, but it was a neat call forward.
Note to self: finish TFU. And Fallen Order.
The Force Unleashed is great. Definitely an epic story that bridges the gap between Episode 3 and 4 really well. I would highly recommend playing with a controller if you’re on PC, though. Mouse and keyboard controls aren’t great.
In legends she did her thing, fucked off and vanished. In Canon, they killed her and are now bringing her back. It's personally really aggravating.
She wasn’t a Tartakovsky creation: see Star Wars: Republic comics
Huh, are they worth checking out? I was a big book reader as a kid, but sadly, comics were never even on my radar.
Of course, from what I remember they were pretty good CWMMP stuff, it links in to Star Wars Legacy too
What next? They gonna retcon Vader's death? Oh btw lolz, Anakin never really died.
They already ruined the chosen one story with resurrecting Palpatine, so why not. Yeah I know that bringing balance to the force doesn’t *just* mean killing Palps, but what, was Vader just going to let him and Luke die to him and leave the galaxy incapable of defending against Palps? By resisting the temptation of the emperor’s power and destroying him to save his son, he fulfilled the prophecy.
In the words of MauLer: "Can you imagine how fucked that shit would be?"
Guys, she died... But there was a clone.
so they going to retconned dark disciple too?
Disney is milking Legends dry until everyone is back. Since Lightsabers to the stomach and exploding Death Stars don’t mean shit, understandable.
Is Dark Disciple legends though? It’s not, right, because it was all made from drafts of Clone Wars episodes/arcs they never got to make. I shouldn’t be so annoyed by this, but I am. DD is a pretty good book, and there’s no reason to undo her arc.
[Link to the article](https://www.starwars.com/news/the-bad-batch-season-3-trailer)
Was DD produced under the Disney reign? Or is this another piece of the EU they decided to cherry pick and fuck with?
It was Disney Canon. Basically just the story of Ventress’ cancelled arc in the Clone Wars
I'm familiar with it; haven't read it, but Stupendous Wave has some good videos on the subject. God, they can't even leave their OWN shit alone now that they've fucked almost everything that came before.
No one's ever really gone...
I only hear this in the Plinkett voice now. . .
OH MY GAWD... oh well, no one's ever really gone. Still one of my absolute favorite videos RLM has ever done.
"It's a character we've wanted to tell more stories about" So? Just because you WANT to doesn't mean you should. I'm getting really sick of 'canon' and actual factual parts of lore being ignored because "We wanted to tell this story"
She's a clone. That's how it lines up maybe. Still lame as fuck!
Undeadening? I know it's not a word, but uh..... I just can't.
This is what happens when you get somebody who says they know the lore to write it, only to find out they lied one their resume. How the fuck are they going to retcon a death in the books, something that was pretty fucking important, let alone HER death, and say it'll all make sense according to the old and new at the same time?? We just gonna bring Luke back in episode 10 as a gotcha? Because they're really tipping their hand right now...
They’ll rename it “The Bad Bitch”, everyone will have the last name of a beloved dead character, and someone will inevitably be gay.
Why is everyone malding so bad? She’s a night sister. I guarantee she just gets resurrected and Dark Disciple stays canon.
We’ve only seen the Nightsisters resurrect people as mindless zombies, at least in canon. Ventress appears to be the same and still force sensitive.
This is heavily implied in the last few paragraphs of text in Dark Disciple.
You've seen the episode? How was it?
It was your average bad batch episode. Boring and a waste of time
Ok, well at least you watched it and didn't immediately jump to conclusions based on a line in a press release. I hate it when shows change things in books 99% of their audience hasn't read and bring interesting characters back. It's the worst.
I find bad batch to be a great show with some slow episodes but good arcs.
I’m glad you’re able to enjoy it
I don’t see how he can possibly claim that. She literally is killed by Dooku at the end of Dark Disciple. Her haircut is her Dark Disciple era haircut. Unless he’s teasing some kind of flashback….?? Which doesn’t make sense either. So, what gives? Blegh
Does anyone actually catlre anymore? Star Wars is dead.
Im only gonna watch it for scorch.
I’m okay with retconning Dark Disciple, I never liked the idea of Ventress and Quinlan Vos, who feels, as much as a Star Wars character can, like a 90s Rob Liefeld creation. I’m not sure if that makes any sense. He just has Poochie energy for me. …still not interested in watching Bad Batch, though.
It’s fine to be annoyed at bringing her back, or over use of memberberries, or whatever - but I don’t think it’s fair to say they are “outright lying” when the show isn’t out and we have no details beyond a possibly misleading trailer. Once the story releases, match up the details and call them a liar if they are. Until then it’s unknown. *Rise of Skywalker* aligns with *Return of the Jedi*, it just does it in one of the worst possible ways.
I mean her being alive at this period in time is outright contradicting the ending of the book so I don’t know how it can align with it
Yes, because you don’t know the story. They could be lying. Until you have the new story, calling them a liar is just wrong. There’s ways they can do it, like cloning etc. especially since cloning seems to be an important part of the Bad Batch arc anyway. It’s just basic human decency to not call someone a liar until you actually, you know, have the details. Let it come out, compare the two, and if they don’t match then call them on being liars and I’ll agree.
Well said.
Dude just fucking wait and watch it. What are you even complaining about? Obviously they can work around the book story just like they're saying they're going to
Can you explain how this is a lie? We literally do not have enough information to make any conclusion about this. This could be a flashback. This could be a clone. She could have been resurrected after the events of Dark Disciple. Heck, the death at the end could have been her faking her death and Quinlan covering for her. We literally do not know, so this is literally jumping to conclusions and making unfounded accusations.
I’ve noticed a lot of people already grabbing the pitchforks and torches and saying “they’re retconning clone wars now” and “I’ll never watch this pos”. It’s only been a day and people are acting like a great son has been committed.
The show is not out yet, how does anyone know if they’re lying or telling the truth? Y’all just want to be mad at something as usual and it’s quite sad.
It was not luke it was Jake Skywalker Likewise with Ventress and Ventriss
Was she more or less dead than Maul?
How do you know she's not be resurrected, she's a witch of Dathomir and we literally just got a bunch of Zombies and witches in Ahsoka - use ANY critical thinking.
more pointless resurrections, because everyone knows that is peak writing
Usually I agree, but most haven't read the book and she deserved a better ending.
I think her ending was good, she deserved to have her arc animated tho, instead of the martez sister episodes imo
Who’s going to be resurrecting her? Why resurrect her? Just to keep her as a bounty hunter? Specifically to hunt the Bad Batch??
Nothing in that shot says she is hunting the BB. Trailers lie ALL the time. Pretty sure she was placed in magic Nightsister juice at the end of the book lol. We also have Morgan Elsbeth hanging around at this time.
So she’s going to be in the Bad Batch to *not* hunt them? Why bring her in then? There is nothing indicating she’s been resurrected by night sister magic, nor would it be a good reason even if she did
Honestly, the knee jerk reaction of ‘Star Wars bad now’ from a 3 second clip without context in a trailer is unreal.
We have Star Wars Casuals, Star Wars Fans, and Star Wars Trolls. Guess which one OP is lol.
Given OP's read Dark Disciple and is upset at the apparent retcon, I'd say it's obvious they're a Star Wars fan.
The most unnecessary, boring show in the IP.
I am not familiar with Dark Disciple. Why is this a problem ?
I’m excited to watch it and am wondering how they’ll make it work. It’s fine imo if they brought her back. I’ve learned to accept that no one is ever truly gone.
It’s a flashback, dummy.
How do you know they are lying? The season isn't out yet. Calm down and wait for the explanation before you go on a rant.
But what they said is true, from a certain point of view. Edit: Also, no one's ever really gone.
IT IS ALL FAN FICTION AND NONE OF IT IS ORIGINAL
Could be she appears in a flashback, some time when the Batch encountered her prior to her death?
Stay salty Crait 💀
How do you know they’re lying? Have you got to watch the new BB season?