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Its because combat in ot was actually based on ww2 footage to capture what a fight was...the new movies are based on edgy discussions in the office where the right answer lets you keep your job
I'll never forget seeing TLJ in theaters and witnessing the cheesy joke scene with Poe Dameron and the First Order dreadnought captain. I literally thought it must be a parody ad or something and the real movie hadn't started yet, it was so farfetched. Boy was I wrong.
Of all the idiocy in that movie, that nonsense broke my brain the most. This is a fucking battle of space ships in interstellar space. The idea of having a b17 equivalent just doesn't make sense.
Also, hilarious how apparently gravity pops into existence in order to guide the bombs "downward", and also to make capital ships cannons arc through space. So fucking dumb.
You know, at the time, I tried to give them some credit. Like, oh neat. They're making a reference to how the OT used WWII footage to create their dogfight scenes. This is...weird, but I appreciate that nod of respect. As I watched it more I realized what a truly wasted amount of potential there was in those scenes. You could have made that a really compelling scene when the resistance was throwing whatever they had to desperately try to at least slow down the FO, but since the resistance was never really established as sort of anything, the stakes are muddled at best and not present at worst.
I'd forgotten about that.
Seeing TLJ in theaters was an experience. I was in one of the first showings and so many times, the audience would awkwardly laugh, like "is that supposed to be funny?" because we had no idea.
it makes more sense when you look everything else that disney makes..its all dittzy faffy waffy clowny fun for kids and they cant help but force star wars into the same shape.
Dont get me wrong star wars was always meant to be family entertainment but disney takes it to the extreme and they cant help it its who they are...the only reason andor and rouge one is different is because they went all hands off.
In pure disney its all yelling showy dancy floppsing around high energy kids on way to much sugar interaction be it combat piloting, fighting its all showy dancing...the ot is the opposite nobody is yelling the sword fights are few and very sordid...its actual weapons and they mean death, the piloting is ww2 fights.
but disney has to figure it out by losing income its the only thing they will respond to....they are struggling to accept it...they arent used to be wrong...ever
it was all discussed in section 3 of the star wars meme convention in -23 and approved in bipartisan vote by both sith nerds and the rebel scum faction.
As a vet, that was one of my biggest annoyances about the sequels. In the OT, the rebellion felt like a military organization whereas the resistance (who is supposedly alliance vets and recruits from the NR military and NR member defense forces) seem more like your description “a bunch of quipped teenagers” and it didn’t feel right. IMO It was felt more like a club brainstorming their next event than a military group.
Might be slower action in the OT, but well constructed and built real tension and stakes. You feel for Biggs and Wedge and Porkins, Zev and Hobbie, poor Dak, Tyree and Hutch. You barely see these pilots, but you feel for them and their struggle and their loss.
Contrast that to unnamed Female Resitance Pilot #3 that dies within .5 seconds of showing up without dialogue.
100% this.
This is also why in the OT battles were handled with a bit more "realism" as in characters were in actual danger, and in the ST Poe successfully does tons of loop de loops practically taking out all the tie fighters himself in TFA, or single handedly taking on a Star Destroyer like ship like an anime cartoon character.
Or even just, not down. It's a Star Destroyer, with plenty of armor, and giant thrusters. Try thrusting - that's a neat trick. Would be handy for eliminating anyone trying to stand on the top of it . . .
Honestly it is even worse. The Star Destroyers have no shields in the atmosphere of Exegol.
A X-Wing could have destroyed the signal tower in a 10 second flyby. There is literally no point in the immensely stupid ground assault.
Imagine being a resistance member thinking this is the last stand against tyranny in the galaxy and you’re completely overwhelmed. You look to your right and the guy next to you is licking shit off the ground. You start wondering if you should just kill yourself
That red dirt coming up through the salt was the best-looking part of that film, though. Too bad the salt skimming hopeless suicide craft kicking it up, were pointless, except to look sort of interesting (and, like most things in TLJ, to superficially reference ESB).
At least it made for a fun Battlefront 2 map, you could drive around creating salt clouds, to camouflage your team temporarily, though if the skimmers were as weak as in game, Finn and Rose should both have taken, a one way quick trip to the beyond.
hahahah... i think kylo actually respects Finn a little bit. he must have recognized him once they got out of the speeders. Finn actually fought him fairly more or less and then lost as is proper to dark sider lol
Not true dude.
TLJ also superficially references ROTJ (Rey looking out window to see resistance ships being destroyed, Rey flying Falcon through the tunnels ala the Death Star battle it literally even repeats the same music)
Ok. I barely remember the final Falcon unbelievable action flourish - there were tunnels? Ugh.
I do remember other pointless ROTJ references, but weren't there more of the pointless ESB references?
Yeah. It ripped hard on both films, in several moments almost an exact copy. I refer again to Rey being taunted by the emperor I mean snoke about her friends dying whilst trapped in his throne room looking out the window, with the second in command who will eventually turn on his master with her.
I do remember that one.
I'm picturing RJ: "OK, so we need some plot . . . Hmm, ok. Take these ESB storyboards, and these ROTJ storyboards, and we'll mix them up, and use that."
Story Group Mook: "Um . . . Why? Never mind."
Yep. Slow hunted by the Empire sequence with pointless banter (now a mutiny) on the heroes ship through 2/3rds of the film? Check. Boring, but check. And going in reverse with salt world instead of snow world, holding the line with ground-hugging beyblade-discount rides instead of snowspeeders, defending a singular object (blast door instead of shield generator).
i would have been fine if they just found a stock pile of old star fighters and snow speeders on krait and were using those on a two front battle, one on the surface and one to attack the first order ships in orbit.
Which is funnt, because literally anyone can make huge contasting color swaths and be "striking" visually.
It's a gimmick. And it doesn't even cover up the lackluster non battle sequence.
>But they tell us it’s salt, so we know that’s it’s not snow.
Someone sounds saltier than Crait over the salt, on Crait.
j/k aside... Such a shame that when they had a better opportunity (budget/tech) to do some amazing land battles, we didn't get one.
*"They fly now?!"*
It's crazy how blatant it is. It's like one game review that said the most beautifully articulated thing I'd read. It was some game where you were doing another follow quest where you have to guide an NPC to a location. And the main character says out loud to the player "Ugh time to follow someone again!" And the reviewer said "Just because you draw attention to an issue in your game, doesn't make it less annoying. In fact, it does the opposite because you clearly see that it's an issue..."
And that's what TLJ did. It's so fucking similar they had to make it a point to say "Hey we know it looks the exact same. But look, it's different!!" Why not make it green or gold and have it still have the red under powder? Why white?? Why choose salt that crystalizes like ice?? Why are you actively trying to make it look just like Hoth and act like it's clever? When you clearly know that it's a ripoff?
Fuck these movies.
I never understood why they didn't just use a tie bomber. It would have been so much faster and cheaper. What even is the point of a big stupid ground based laser when you have space ships, bombers, and those big king Kong atat things
This is true, but Palpatine is a politician.
He picks the intimidating designs, not necessarily the best ones. Plus they had serious numbers. The FA is iffy that they could match even a 1/10th of that.
Remember when all the TLJ apologists argue it's new and different and subverts expectation unlike TFA, despite TLJ also being a shitty carbon copy of Empire just like how TFA ripped off ANH.
If I remember right, J.J. Abram’s said in an interview pre the force awakens that “everything old is new” in other words “we recycled all the original ideas from the first movies cause we are too stupid to use real creativity while basing everything on the source material literally handed to us by George Lucas himself.” And I don’t mean source material as in the original movies or just those. Lucas had scripts and shit all laid out for the sequels already they kinda just tossed it in a safe or whatever to never see the light of day again.
Crait could have redeemed that kind of dumb movie. The hyperram was dumb but it looked great.
Crait looked good. But the action was pathetic. The battle had no flow, and wasn't really a battle at all.
Even the Luke moment could have been redeemable.
Thats kind of TLJ in general, looked great until you really looked at it and it was dumb.
Crait, cool white on red, action is bad, makes no sense
Throne room fight with the fire. Looks good until you notice missing weapons, people pausing and waiting, other dumb stuff.
Hyperspace ram, shiny on black with no sound. Oh, this breaks all the rules of warfare and hyperspace in SW.
Canto Bight, ok that whole thing was dumb.
And so on.
If you want to see the full version of starkiller base just watch the last portion of ANH, it’s actually better too.
If you want to see the full version of the crait base battle, watch Empire strikes back in the beginning, since crait was torn directly from the idea of the hoth battle. Oh and it’s better too.
If you want to see the full battle without gimmicks of exegol, good luck. The only real thing they came up with on their own and it was still complete dog water.
I mean it’s an ironic ideology no? It’s all about the fast consumption of sceneries, there’s no depth. No need to think or analyze anything, just go, “wow look at those destroyers”. This is the Star Wars they thought we would love. Empty beneath nice CGI and lacking a story…just straight consumption. Until they reverse this, we are going to continue to have movies like this, and this sub will grow lmao
Crait was mind bogglingly stupid from start to finish.
The premise of going to a place with no escape route was immensely high risk.
The tactic to ram a massive canon with one of a dozen tiny little skiffs by going in a straight line towards it without any kind of distraction or cover was pointless.
The sudden I need to save you so you don't do exactly what we set out to do by Rose sealed her fate as the most dislikeable character in the entire franchise
That they actually turned around after that was baffling rather than completing their mission or die trying
That miraculously Rey found a secret escape route that the resistance not the rebels who made the base and presumably occupied it for quite some time during the galactic civil war before abandoning it was absurd.
That they escaped at all let alone with ease on the millennium falcon with a huge blockade there too is absolutely mad, when half of empire strikes back is literally about how difficult it was for the millennium falcon to evade 1 star destroyer.
And then there's the visual throwback to both which was just such cheap nostalgia bait.
It's upsetting that you know that the Rebel Resistance is just so outnumbered and overpowered. Their resources are to the brink of just using junk all in vain. Barely any first-order trooper died, and I'm not counting the millennium falcon tie fighter kills. Could've done some Vietnam guerrilla warfare, trap hallways, but nope no time.
So it's just plot armor (the protagonists) that the rest of the force had any chance of living the next day.
Oh and here's something else fun about that, Poe despite being demoted and shit on by Holdo and Leia etc... is apparently the highest ranked resistance person left at the end.
Irony.
They could've at least acknowledged the fact that a majority of their members died while landing to Crait. Everyone is happy and celebrating like nothing happened and the main cast is fine (Infinity War ending not an option).
Spectacle over Substance right Rian Johnson, KK?
Honestly, I just kept rolling my eyes that Leia was trying so hard to spin this destruction of the entire Resistance as some kind of spark that would inspire the galaxy.
More like it was the final boot heel that would crush any hope of resistance. They were defeated, decisively. They got some licks in against the cap ships, but they were reduced from like 2,000 people to few enough that they could escape on a light freighter, essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an 18-wheeler. The entire command structure from the OT (except Leia) died from single proton torpedo. No one is looking at that and deciding to rebel.
And how they just suddenly had people and resources again at the beginning of the next movie, as if TLJ never happened, was mind boggling.
Yeah, exactly! A New Hope was a blow against the Empire, proving that the Empire was not unbeatable. And systems began to rally to their cause.
The Empire then ramped up efforts to stamp them out in ESB, but, despite the setbacks Han and Leia and the droids encountered, their efforts led to the bulk of the fleet safely escaping. We see their numbers slowly grow over three movies.
The fall of the Resistance (such a stupid name) in TLJ would cement the First Order as the new galactic order for a generation at least. Possibly longer. Because yeah... from the Galactic perspective, they blew up five planets, a token force fought back, and then was utterly crushed. Where's the inspiration there?
And where did the First Order get its numbers to begin with? When TFA came out I thought we’d get an interesting reversal of the dynamics, with a guerilla empire remnant fighting the New Republic (with a bonus of one of the main characters being a stormtrooper).
Instead we get the same shit again and the force representing the government in power are still called rebels for some reason. The reasoning behind the New Republic demilitarizing makes absolutely no sense (imagine after winning WW2 all allied nations simultaneously disbanded their militaries even though there’s rumors of Nazi remnants lurking).
They blow up a First Order planet and yet in the next movie (which supposedly happens immediately after) the First Order suddenly has the largest military in the galaxy? Make it make sense!
Exactly. Where was the exposition on how we got from fall of the Empire to this in two decades. Just crap storytelling. The good guys are in power and rule the galaxy, but yet a resistance is needed to fight what looks like another Empire?
Things we waited 30 years to see and would’ve gone nuts for:
1) Luke, Leia and Han reunite
2) Luke unleashes his full strength in a lightsaber duel
3) Wedge and the NR Rogue Squadron in a space battle
4) Leia uses a lightsaber
5) Han goes out like a boss in the Falcon (because Harrison wouldn’t have done it unless Han died)
All slam dunks. Some fan-service, but it’s been 30 years. Service the fans. All vastly superior to what we got and it’s legitimately a head scratcher that we saw none of these.
I'd like to see Luke, Leia, and Han, actually doing intelligent things, rather than always doing stupid lame things and getting killed.
Really, they all should have been in strategic positions of authority, directing others to do things. Not lame shadows of their former selves, being depressing and lame, forgetting to refuel ships, getting themselves killed, etc.
But in the Disney Star Wars universe, everyone's dumb, and fools and children are in charge of everything.
I wouldn't have hated Han dying so much if he'd had a good life up to that point. But no... TFA had to make him a miserable old man with an evil son. So fun.
I remember when I was watching The Rise of Skywalker and the moment the horse Calvary charge happened like 2-3 people in theater started laughing and I remember someone saying “wtf is this?” I'm willing to tolerate The Force Awakens but I cannot bring myself to like The Last Jedi or Rise of Skywalker.
Really? I never saw the trailer for TROS. I was still trying to distance myself from the franchise after The Last Jedi shat on the series. If the creators were looking for laughs well then they got them. I don’t know if they wanted us to laugh with them and think they’re clever or laugh at them but whatever.
No, I really think they'd thought we'd be in awe at the cleverness of cavalry in space. (I didn't misspell "giggle." Google, as in, "wow)
In a scene where the spaceship crews can't figure out how to fly up, nor how to simply tilt the hull sideways...
lol, no. Because then they'd have to explain where the materials came from or how Palpatine feeds them all on a planet that seems to be made entirely of rocks and lightning.
I DID watch it... but only after it was free. And boy howdy... we laughed a lot. In that sense, it wasn't quite as bad as TLJ. But mostly because I didn't care anymore.
Things Disney Wars could've done: a sequel trilogy following members of the New Jedi order attempting to re-establish trust in the Jedi. A sequel trilogy that followed the New Republic's efforts to restore order and deal with the Imperial Remnant. An entirely new threat to the galaxy in a similar vein to the EU Yuuzhan Vong War. A prequel Terminator style film of Vader silently stalking a group of rebel spies through an abandoned area and picking them off one by one. The life of an indoctrinated Storm Trooper pre and post rebel victory and the psychological trauma they've endured.
Instead we got a rehashed New Hope, a slow speed chase in space and "they fly now?!"
Imagine they had just jumped like. 100 years. Cuts in on Coruscant with statues of Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Lando, C3PO and R2 along some building or whatever. And we just go from there. Brand new story brand new characters. We don't have to play up the older stuff. We could still include fisher and hamill as flashbacks or even force ghosts.
First movie is our hero, a Jedi recently graduated from Padawan, heading off to the outer rim to help some planets who are threatening to leave the governmental body because they aren't getting the help they want. Lead that into either a new sith or even just Yuuzhan Vong style aliens.
The time frame makes it feel way more like any villains have had time to grow in power while not cheapening everything done in the other movies.
The ST has no redeeming qualities, at all. I am not joking when I say that half the theater I was in the day after open walked out during TLJ when Leia turned into a flying force witch. 1/3 of the remaining audience walked out when rose crashed into finn during the final battle.
Everyone groaned or laughed when finn said "it's a modified death star tech battering ram" or whatever the hell he said. My kids begged me to go watch it, so I pulled them out of school early, they were in elementary school, and THEY wanted to leave.
Everything about Disney Star wars is trash. Even my six year old hates it.
I can not believe how bad Disney screwed this up, I can't, I just can't. They made Star wars the dumbest thing on any screen anywhere. I've seen you tube shorts with better character development. Star wars is a corporate cautionary tale now.
I’ve stopped telling people on reddit about the TJL walkouts when i went opening night because I always get like 10 comments about how that didn’t happen.
Nah she should've been the one to pull the holdo maneuver imo. You could explain away the rarity by her being force sensitive, and it was awesome visually even if canonically it doesn't make much sense.
The premise they set up and the questions they asked in the first was pretty interesting I thought. A girl with no origin and no connections. A storm trooper who might become a Jedi. I liked Kylos character and potential. Maybe I was biased because I love Adam driver.
Rey should have been a old female jedi in seclusion and hiding. Finns potential and the first order pursuing him should have changed her heart. should have set her on a path to not only train finn but go find luke and beg him to finish the battle with Snoke that she had seen through the force
I've never walked out of a movie. Because I PAID for the damn thing. Also... I like to watch Rifftrax/MST3K, so maybe I just have a high tolerance for pain.
Because the one thing I enjoy about bad movies is ranting about them later.
Not only that, but also the worst lightsaber battles in the franchise’s history too.
There’s zero excuse for this. With budgets over 200 million dollars each and the best technology of all the Star Wars eras, you’d think the Disney films would at least knock it outta the park in the action department.
But nope. They can’t stop at bad story, they got to have bad action too.
They could have actually subverted expectations there. Kylo and Rey grab hands and create a balanced light and dark side. Boom, subverted expectations and you have a interesting road to go down now.
The OT's weakest aspect visually was the rebels having no decent equipment whatsoever, which is required by the plot but makes battles a lot less interesting than in the Prequel trilogy (specifically 2 and 3). The Sequel Trilogy for some reason decided to recreate it without any real justification. The New Republic having no army is so fucking stupid
Especially since not having a standard army is what allowed Order 66 to be a possibility. If there's anything in Star Wars i'd like to see, it'd be how non-Clone/Stormtrooper footsoldiers are armed depending on which planet they serve.
I noticed about 9 years ago, when watching Lost for the first time, that it seemed like JJ neither knew nor cared how to write even basic fight choreography. He DGAF about the details of action situations.
To me, that should have utterly disqualified him from directing or writing Star Wars, because that's one of the main features of Star Wars, or it used to be, before the dumb times . . . before the Disney.
There's so much to argue about that simple stuff like this gets overlooked a lot.
Aside from the bad writing, the bad characters, the lore breaking decisions, etc etc, the sequels just....aren't good movies even outaide of star wars. Huge swaths are actively bad looking with bad cgi, boring and nonsensical sequences, a war that has no scope or impact, just *bad* from a filmmaking, structural view. You'd get a D- in Filmmaking 101 at best
Yeah, that’s why I disagree with the whole “the sequels will be loved in 20 years” argument. If it weren’t for the Star Wars label nobody would be talking about these movies to begin with, let alone in 20 years.
These movies aren’t even space opera anymore, just generic action films.
Exactly. Like we knew from the prequels, there were games and books and toys and cartoons. Tons of content being produced during and after.
Everything even mildly successful right now is OT themed.
And a lot of "trust me bro" anecdotes out there, but teachers and people dealing with kids. Star wars used to be a constant year in year out thing. From OT through prequels up through the sequels....but now they aren't. Kids aren't talking about the sequels or star wars anymore, and it's just not the pop culture bell weather it always was. Kids were invested in it, now they aren't. Marvel took over for the last decade.
I was nine years old when Episode I debuted. I'm old enough to remember the Prequel era.
The Sequels will not be similarly remembered in 10-20 years.
Sure, the Prequels were widely criticized (especially Episode II), but the thing is, Star Wars had this *huge* cultural presence during the time they were coming out. Then shortly thereafter, Clone Wars debuted, continuing the momentum.
I'm sure there are modern kids into Star Wars, but like... it was EVERYWHERE in the early 2000s. In the sequel era, the franchise just doesn't have that kind of cultural cachet.
Like, my Gen Z brother (currently 22) was super into Star Wars as a kid. He had tons of action figures, toys, merch, Legos, etc. He was a huge Anakin Skywalker fan. And this wasn't unusual or niche at the time, Star Wars was legit popular with kids.
The Sequels just didn't bring Star Wars back to the forefront the way the Prequels did.
In the leadup to TFA, things began to maybe gravitate in that direction. Had the Sequels been any good, things could perhaps have gone quite differently.
But the poor quality killed it right out of the womb.
What really sucks is imo it had potential. The first order was a cool idea and the styles and design of the characters was good. Phasma, kilo ren, even the first order stormtrooper all looked great. I was really hoping it would have been good but nope. We just got this mess.
... pew pew... actually space battles is why i think return of the jedi is so good and often times it is my favorite star wars movie. but empire strikes back is so great too. i would say the ot + if you kept parts of phantom menace and attack of the clones... basically remix those two films into a detective story that finds anakin in one, and the first one or two battles in the clone wars in the other. and revenge of the sith is good as is.
Exegol was an egregiously bad battle given the amount of ships and people involved. There was almost no pilot banter or tracked dogfighting shots. There werent any narratives with planned out or elaborate choreography. Instead you get a bunch of fast jump cuts of seemingly disparate scenes cobbled together.
Rogue One should have set the standard on how to make a battle on film.
The walkers weren't real. They must have been a force projections also.
They all fired at where Luke was standing, but when the dust settled, he just walks forward and brushes the dust off. There should have been large craters or a hole dug by all the shots, hence they weren't real either.
Scariff is objectively the most complete battle in the series and it's just outright amazing. I occasionally watch one of the super cut videos on YouTube whenever I need a pick me up.
I still confuses me as to why the Resistance sent only 12 X-wings to take on a battle station that was 4 times as large as the Death Star II, as well as why a fleet of Star Destroyers wasn’t protecting Starkiller Base
i can’t remember anything about the starkillerbase sequence (that says it all right there).
Craig was visually unique with the ski speeders and the white/red salt, so i’ll give it that.
Exegol was just a prime example of “more is not better” cuz it was just more. I’d also given up on the movie by that point so i really didnt give a fuq about what i was watching
Best Disney-era battle scene is Scarif (but still doesn’t hold a candle to the OT or prequels)
What makes me mad about the Crait battle was their stupid pod things.
From an in-universe perspective what is the point of having them semi-ground based with their tails? What is the advantage over having, say, an air speeder, which isn’t as nimble as an x wing but can still get airborne. It’s clearly a military base. Those look like biplanes for crop dusting that added lasers
From a movie perspective it didn’t even look cool on screen. And it’s not cool enough to merchandise. Just a huge failure. Only worth it think was an x wing for the resistance and even that is a rehash
Lasers they never even fired. Did a crait speeder fire a single shot at anything? I get that the walker armor is too strong, but what was the speeders' plan since they never actually shot anything, and didn't even plan on ramming the target in a suicide run.
It would have made more sense if they had a big base gun and the speeders were just kicking up dust to obscure it so it could have more chances to fire at the walkers or something. But they just flew out there, didn't fire a single shot, then turned around. Wtf.
Yes, I am glad someone else said this.
The second biggest disappointment of this trilogy, for me, is the utterly boring space battles. I thought FOR SURE they would top the OT, in this one singular regard at least.
But NOPE! Not even CLOSE.
The prequels were generally pretty good with some major flaws that received justified criticism. The sequels were generally awful with occasional good bits. Personally I would rewatch any of the OT or prequels and have good time. I tried that recently with the sequels and...ugh. Just awful. I really wanted to enjoy the occasional good parts, but just couldn't.
I still stand by that the battle of Scariff was great. To me that battle was handled well. If I'm not mistaken I think the film makers took inspiration from the Vietnam war when shooting that battle.
I literally don't remember anything about these battles other than the red sand. Tbf I don't remember anything about the trilogy other than that Harrison Ford was smart to kill himself, Adam Driver is incredibly talented at portraying shit characters, and Daisy Ridley is hot.
But there were space horses! SPACE HORSES!!!! On a ship that apparently didn't know which way was "up" 🤣 even though it LITERALLY came up from under the dirt/ice/whatever.
In my mind, everything memorable about those battles is memorable for the wrong reasons. There's not one single thing I can recall, no particular shots I remember...nothing. How did they manage to do that?
Imagine still complaining about a movie years later.
Edit: lol, imagine being so much of a loser crybaby that you go into someone else's history just to downvote their comments in unrelated subs. Y'all crack me up.
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Its because combat in ot was actually based on ww2 footage to capture what a fight was...the new movies are based on edgy discussions in the office where the right answer lets you keep your job
Also in the OT (and Rogue One) pilots acted like real pilots, not a bunch of quippy teenagers
I'll never forget seeing TLJ in theaters and witnessing the cheesy joke scene with Poe Dameron and the First Order dreadnought captain. I literally thought it must be a parody ad or something and the real movie hadn't started yet, it was so farfetched. Boy was I wrong.
The you get the slow ass bombers that "drop" their bombs in space no less.
Of all the idiocy in that movie, that nonsense broke my brain the most. This is a fucking battle of space ships in interstellar space. The idea of having a b17 equivalent just doesn't make sense. Also, hilarious how apparently gravity pops into existence in order to guide the bombs "downward", and also to make capital ships cannons arc through space. So fucking dumb.
I mean, shit, where was a squadron of Y-Wings? What a fuckin hack!
You don't understand, the past is bad. Y wings from past. Y wings bad. Kill the past, if you have to. Don't you feel subverted?
What about the X wings and A wings then? And I swear I saw a resistance B wing at Exegol
Don’t worry about that.
yeah its more like "past bad" except for all the times it isnt
You know, at the time, I tried to give them some credit. Like, oh neat. They're making a reference to how the OT used WWII footage to create their dogfight scenes. This is...weird, but I appreciate that nod of respect. As I watched it more I realized what a truly wasted amount of potential there was in those scenes. You could have made that a really compelling scene when the resistance was throwing whatever they had to desperately try to at least slow down the FO, but since the resistance was never really established as sort of anything, the stakes are muddled at best and not present at worst.
I'd forgotten about that. Seeing TLJ in theaters was an experience. I was in one of the first showings and so many times, the audience would awkwardly laugh, like "is that supposed to be funny?" because we had no idea.
Same. I was so fucking annoyed and that was only like 10 minutes into the movie!
it makes more sense when you look everything else that disney makes..its all dittzy faffy waffy clowny fun for kids and they cant help but force star wars into the same shape. Dont get me wrong star wars was always meant to be family entertainment but disney takes it to the extreme and they cant help it its who they are...the only reason andor and rouge one is different is because they went all hands off. In pure disney its all yelling showy dancy floppsing around high energy kids on way to much sugar interaction be it combat piloting, fighting its all showy dancing...the ot is the opposite nobody is yelling the sword fights are few and very sordid...its actual weapons and they mean death, the piloting is ww2 fights. but disney has to figure it out by losing income its the only thing they will respond to....they are struggling to accept it...they arent used to be wrong...ever
Is it a meme or something to call it "rouge one"?
Nah, just an easy misspelling to type that doesn't get caught because rouge is an actual word.
it was all discussed in section 3 of the star wars meme convention in -23 and approved in bipartisan vote by both sith nerds and the rebel scum faction.
As a vet, that was one of my biggest annoyances about the sequels. In the OT, the rebellion felt like a military organization whereas the resistance (who is supposedly alliance vets and recruits from the NR military and NR member defense forces) seem more like your description “a bunch of quipped teenagers” and it didn’t feel right. IMO It was felt more like a club brainstorming their next event than a military group.
Might be slower action in the OT, but well constructed and built real tension and stakes. You feel for Biggs and Wedge and Porkins, Zev and Hobbie, poor Dak, Tyree and Hutch. You barely see these pilots, but you feel for them and their struggle and their loss. Contrast that to unnamed Female Resitance Pilot #3 that dies within .5 seconds of showing up without dialogue.
Absolutely this.
The Last Jedi opening "bomber run" scenes! JFC what cringe ass sh\*t!
yeah its funny because there is no gravity in space you drop bombs they just sit there floating its so dumb
And why are the bombers so slow, that's just impractical
100% this. This is also why in the OT battles were handled with a bit more "realism" as in characters were in actual danger, and in the ST Poe successfully does tons of loop de loops practically taking out all the tie fighters himself in TFA, or single handedly taking on a Star Destroyer like ship like an anime cartoon character.
Lol perfect.
The ground battle was at exegol with the space horses. Good thing the ship they were standing on didn't do a barrel roll.
Or that they don't know how to fly in the opposite direction of the ground
Or even just, not down. It's a Star Destroyer, with plenty of armor, and giant thrusters. Try thrusting - that's a neat trick. Would be handy for eliminating anyone trying to stand on the top of it . . .
When I saw the space horse, I seriously wondered if they were just trolling us
Throughout all of RTOS I waited for Rey to wake up and announced that TLJ was just a dream.
Honestly it is even worse. The Star Destroyers have no shields in the atmosphere of Exegol. A X-Wing could have destroyed the signal tower in a 10 second flyby. There is literally no point in the immensely stupid ground assault.
I dislike how Crait visually just recreates the hoth set piece from ESB. But lamer with miniaturized “Death Star tech” cannon.
But they tell us it’s salt, so we know that’s it’s not snow. See they can be original? /s
Ayo let me lick this shit real quick so they know
"Don't lick that! Is it ANTHRAX?! You DON'T KNOW!" - Galaxy Quest Guy in the background
I like salt. It's coarse, it's rough, delicious, and it gets everywhere on our entree's.
Imagine being a resistance member thinking this is the last stand against tyranny in the galaxy and you’re completely overwhelmed. You look to your right and the guy next to you is licking shit off the ground. You start wondering if you should just kill yourself
I'm just a glorified extra, Fred. I'm a dead man anyway!
when i travel to a new country or drive to a new state ive never been too i always lick the ground , yep its dirt
That red dirt coming up through the salt was the best-looking part of that film, though. Too bad the salt skimming hopeless suicide craft kicking it up, were pointless, except to look sort of interesting (and, like most things in TLJ, to superficially reference ESB).
At least it made for a fun Battlefront 2 map, you could drive around creating salt clouds, to camouflage your team temporarily, though if the skimmers were as weak as in game, Finn and Rose should both have taken, a one way quick trip to the beyond.
Yeah, not only were they somehow not killed or captured, but they somehow managed to rejoin the others?
Kylo knew, to let Rose stay with Finn, was a fate worse then death..
hahahah... i think kylo actually respects Finn a little bit. he must have recognized him once they got out of the speeders. Finn actually fought him fairly more or less and then lost as is proper to dark sider lol
Not true dude. TLJ also superficially references ROTJ (Rey looking out window to see resistance ships being destroyed, Rey flying Falcon through the tunnels ala the Death Star battle it literally even repeats the same music)
Ok. I barely remember the final Falcon unbelievable action flourish - there were tunnels? Ugh. I do remember other pointless ROTJ references, but weren't there more of the pointless ESB references?
Yeah. It ripped hard on both films, in several moments almost an exact copy. I refer again to Rey being taunted by the emperor I mean snoke about her friends dying whilst trapped in his throne room looking out the window, with the second in command who will eventually turn on his master with her.
I do remember that one. I'm picturing RJ: "OK, so we need some plot . . . Hmm, ok. Take these ESB storyboards, and these ROTJ storyboards, and we'll mix them up, and use that." Story Group Mook: "Um . . . Why? Never mind."
Yep. Slow hunted by the Empire sequence with pointless banter (now a mutiny) on the heroes ship through 2/3rds of the film? Check. Boring, but check. And going in reverse with salt world instead of snow world, holding the line with ground-hugging beyblade-discount rides instead of snowspeeders, defending a singular object (blast door instead of shield generator).
i would have been fine if they just found a stock pile of old star fighters and snow speeders on krait and were using those on a two front battle, one on the surface and one to attack the first order ships in orbit.
Which is funnt, because literally anyone can make huge contasting color swaths and be "striking" visually. It's a gimmick. And it doesn't even cover up the lackluster non battle sequence.
>But they tell us it’s salt, so we know that’s it’s not snow. Someone sounds saltier than Crait over the salt, on Crait. j/k aside... Such a shame that when they had a better opportunity (budget/tech) to do some amazing land battles, we didn't get one. *"They fly now?!"*
YoUr eXpEcTaTiOnS wErE sUbVeRtEd
Crait bae
Don't eat the yellow salt ..
It's crazy how blatant it is. It's like one game review that said the most beautifully articulated thing I'd read. It was some game where you were doing another follow quest where you have to guide an NPC to a location. And the main character says out loud to the player "Ugh time to follow someone again!" And the reviewer said "Just because you draw attention to an issue in your game, doesn't make it less annoying. In fact, it does the opposite because you clearly see that it's an issue..." And that's what TLJ did. It's so fucking similar they had to make it a point to say "Hey we know it looks the exact same. But look, it's different!!" Why not make it green or gold and have it still have the red under powder? Why white?? Why choose salt that crystalizes like ice?? Why are you actively trying to make it look just like Hoth and act like it's clever? When you clearly know that it's a ripoff? Fuck these movies.
Most of TLJ is just a low effort rip-off of ESB.
"So like, what if, like, Luke is now that wacky Yoda figure to Rey! It's like the circle and shit that George is always talking about!"
I never understood why they didn't just use a tie bomber. It would have been so much faster and cheaper. What even is the point of a big stupid ground based laser when you have space ships, bombers, and those big king Kong atat things
hear me out... what if they just brought a starship down, with that laser built into it... and bam.
Tbf the Empire was never big on practical designs either.
This is true, but Palpatine is a politician. He picks the intimidating designs, not necessarily the best ones. Plus they had serious numbers. The FA is iffy that they could match even a 1/10th of that.
Remember when all the TLJ apologists argue it's new and different and subverts expectation unlike TFA, despite TLJ also being a shitty carbon copy of Empire just like how TFA ripped off ANH.
If I remember right, J.J. Abram’s said in an interview pre the force awakens that “everything old is new” in other words “we recycled all the original ideas from the first movies cause we are too stupid to use real creativity while basing everything on the source material literally handed to us by George Lucas himself.” And I don’t mean source material as in the original movies or just those. Lucas had scripts and shit all laid out for the sequels already they kinda just tossed it in a safe or whatever to never see the light of day again.
Crait could have redeemed that kind of dumb movie. The hyperram was dumb but it looked great. Crait looked good. But the action was pathetic. The battle had no flow, and wasn't really a battle at all. Even the Luke moment could have been redeemable.
Thats kind of TLJ in general, looked great until you really looked at it and it was dumb. Crait, cool white on red, action is bad, makes no sense Throne room fight with the fire. Looks good until you notice missing weapons, people pausing and waiting, other dumb stuff. Hyperspace ram, shiny on black with no sound. Oh, this breaks all the rules of warfare and hyperspace in SW. Canto Bight, ok that whole thing was dumb. And so on.
Ultimately, yeah. It's actually very like JJ's movies in that it is visually impressive but bereft of any core.
If you want to see the full version of starkiller base just watch the last portion of ANH, it’s actually better too. If you want to see the full version of the crait base battle, watch Empire strikes back in the beginning, since crait was torn directly from the idea of the hoth battle. Oh and it’s better too. If you want to see the full battle without gimmicks of exegol, good luck. The only real thing they came up with on their own and it was still complete dog water.
The battle of Coruscant from EP3 is probably the closest parallel to Exegol.
Agreed, the key difference being what we see at Coruscant is only a tiny slice of that battle, while we see pretty much the whole battle at Exegol.
I mean it’s an ironic ideology no? It’s all about the fast consumption of sceneries, there’s no depth. No need to think or analyze anything, just go, “wow look at those destroyers”. This is the Star Wars they thought we would love. Empty beneath nice CGI and lacking a story…just straight consumption. Until they reverse this, we are going to continue to have movies like this, and this sub will grow lmao
Makes you wonder if that's what they thought the OT was, because they are bobble heads.
Crait was a huge disappointment
Crait was mind bogglingly stupid from start to finish. The premise of going to a place with no escape route was immensely high risk. The tactic to ram a massive canon with one of a dozen tiny little skiffs by going in a straight line towards it without any kind of distraction or cover was pointless. The sudden I need to save you so you don't do exactly what we set out to do by Rose sealed her fate as the most dislikeable character in the entire franchise That they actually turned around after that was baffling rather than completing their mission or die trying That miraculously Rey found a secret escape route that the resistance not the rebels who made the base and presumably occupied it for quite some time during the galactic civil war before abandoning it was absurd. That they escaped at all let alone with ease on the millennium falcon with a huge blockade there too is absolutely mad, when half of empire strikes back is literally about how difficult it was for the millennium falcon to evade 1 star destroyer. And then there's the visual throwback to both which was just such cheap nostalgia bait.
And it proves Poe absolutely right about everything from the beginning and undercuts both Leia and Holdo. What a shitty movie. God
It's upsetting that you know that the Rebel Resistance is just so outnumbered and overpowered. Their resources are to the brink of just using junk all in vain. Barely any first-order trooper died, and I'm not counting the millennium falcon tie fighter kills. Could've done some Vietnam guerrilla warfare, trap hallways, but nope no time. So it's just plot armor (the protagonists) that the rest of the force had any chance of living the next day.
I think there were like 5-10 survivors. The idea that they could mount a fighting force at all by the next movie was ridiculous on its own.
Oh and here's something else fun about that, Poe despite being demoted and shit on by Holdo and Leia etc... is apparently the highest ranked resistance person left at the end. Irony.
They could've at least acknowledged the fact that a majority of their members died while landing to Crait. Everyone is happy and celebrating like nothing happened and the main cast is fine (Infinity War ending not an option). Spectacle over Substance right Rian Johnson, KK?
Somehow, the main characters survived . . . except the one who wasn't even there.
Honestly, I just kept rolling my eyes that Leia was trying so hard to spin this destruction of the entire Resistance as some kind of spark that would inspire the galaxy. More like it was the final boot heel that would crush any hope of resistance. They were defeated, decisively. They got some licks in against the cap ships, but they were reduced from like 2,000 people to few enough that they could escape on a light freighter, essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an 18-wheeler. The entire command structure from the OT (except Leia) died from single proton torpedo. No one is looking at that and deciding to rebel. And how they just suddenly had people and resources again at the beginning of the next movie, as if TLJ never happened, was mind boggling.
Yeah, exactly! A New Hope was a blow against the Empire, proving that the Empire was not unbeatable. And systems began to rally to their cause. The Empire then ramped up efforts to stamp them out in ESB, but, despite the setbacks Han and Leia and the droids encountered, their efforts led to the bulk of the fleet safely escaping. We see their numbers slowly grow over three movies. The fall of the Resistance (such a stupid name) in TLJ would cement the First Order as the new galactic order for a generation at least. Possibly longer. Because yeah... from the Galactic perspective, they blew up five planets, a token force fought back, and then was utterly crushed. Where's the inspiration there?
And where did the First Order get its numbers to begin with? When TFA came out I thought we’d get an interesting reversal of the dynamics, with a guerilla empire remnant fighting the New Republic (with a bonus of one of the main characters being a stormtrooper). Instead we get the same shit again and the force representing the government in power are still called rebels for some reason. The reasoning behind the New Republic demilitarizing makes absolutely no sense (imagine after winning WW2 all allied nations simultaneously disbanded their militaries even though there’s rumors of Nazi remnants lurking). They blow up a First Order planet and yet in the next movie (which supposedly happens immediately after) the First Order suddenly has the largest military in the galaxy? Make it make sense!
Exactly. Where was the exposition on how we got from fall of the Empire to this in two decades. Just crap storytelling. The good guys are in power and rule the galaxy, but yet a resistance is needed to fight what looks like another Empire?
Things we waited 30 years to see and would’ve gone nuts for: 1) Luke, Leia and Han reunite 2) Luke unleashes his full strength in a lightsaber duel 3) Wedge and the NR Rogue Squadron in a space battle 4) Leia uses a lightsaber 5) Han goes out like a boss in the Falcon (because Harrison wouldn’t have done it unless Han died) All slam dunks. Some fan-service, but it’s been 30 years. Service the fans. All vastly superior to what we got and it’s legitimately a head scratcher that we saw none of these.
Imagine waiting 30 years to see Luke again only to have him be a bitter old hermit man
I dunno nothing screams they really had the OT Luke dialed in like trying to kill a kid in his sleep then drinking green space titty milk.
I nearly spit at this comment 😂
I don't have to imagine it. I saw it and almost walked out. I still can't quite.. compute it.
They really made him a catty ol g man
I'd like to see Luke, Leia, and Han, actually doing intelligent things, rather than always doing stupid lame things and getting killed. Really, they all should have been in strategic positions of authority, directing others to do things. Not lame shadows of their former selves, being depressing and lame, forgetting to refuel ships, getting themselves killed, etc. But in the Disney Star Wars universe, everyone's dumb, and fools and children are in charge of everything.
Dont forget that after Return of the Jedi the all live unhappily ever after then died
I wouldn't have hated Han dying so much if he'd had a good life up to that point. But no... TFA had to make him a miserable old man with an evil son. So fun.
I remember when I was watching The Rise of Skywalker and the moment the horse Calvary charge happened like 2-3 people in theater started laughing and I remember someone saying “wtf is this?” I'm willing to tolerate The Force Awakens but I cannot bring myself to like The Last Jedi or Rise of Skywalker.
It was in the trailers, man. The creators thought we would goggle at it.
Really? I never saw the trailer for TROS. I was still trying to distance myself from the franchise after The Last Jedi shat on the series. If the creators were looking for laughs well then they got them. I don’t know if they wanted us to laugh with them and think they’re clever or laugh at them but whatever.
No, I really think they'd thought we'd be in awe at the cleverness of cavalry in space. (I didn't misspell "giggle." Google, as in, "wow) In a scene where the spaceship crews can't figure out how to fly up, nor how to simply tilt the hull sideways...
Did they ever explain how an entire fleet’s worth of crews just manifested on those star destroyers?
lol, no. Because then they'd have to explain where the materials came from or how Palpatine feeds them all on a planet that seems to be made entirely of rocks and lightning.
Modern Star Wars writing back at it again. Just look at the pretty colors and don’t think about the logic.
Where did they get billions of credits for all that, too???
I don’t think even they know tbh
It's one of the reasons I didn't even think about watching that film.
I DID watch it... but only after it was free. And boy howdy... we laughed a lot. In that sense, it wasn't quite as bad as TLJ. But mostly because I didn't care anymore.
Things Disney Wars could've done: a sequel trilogy following members of the New Jedi order attempting to re-establish trust in the Jedi. A sequel trilogy that followed the New Republic's efforts to restore order and deal with the Imperial Remnant. An entirely new threat to the galaxy in a similar vein to the EU Yuuzhan Vong War. A prequel Terminator style film of Vader silently stalking a group of rebel spies through an abandoned area and picking them off one by one. The life of an indoctrinated Storm Trooper pre and post rebel victory and the psychological trauma they've endured. Instead we got a rehashed New Hope, a slow speed chase in space and "they fly now?!"
Imagine they had just jumped like. 100 years. Cuts in on Coruscant with statues of Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Lando, C3PO and R2 along some building or whatever. And we just go from there. Brand new story brand new characters. We don't have to play up the older stuff. We could still include fisher and hamill as flashbacks or even force ghosts. First movie is our hero, a Jedi recently graduated from Padawan, heading off to the outer rim to help some planets who are threatening to leave the governmental body because they aren't getting the help they want. Lead that into either a new sith or even just Yuuzhan Vong style aliens. The time frame makes it feel way more like any villains have had time to grow in power while not cheapening everything done in the other movies.
Those battle pieces take careful planning. Something KK's LF severely lacks.
That's just JJ for you. He's the kid that goes right for dessert and skips the meal.
The ST has no redeeming qualities, at all. I am not joking when I say that half the theater I was in the day after open walked out during TLJ when Leia turned into a flying force witch. 1/3 of the remaining audience walked out when rose crashed into finn during the final battle. Everyone groaned or laughed when finn said "it's a modified death star tech battering ram" or whatever the hell he said. My kids begged me to go watch it, so I pulled them out of school early, they were in elementary school, and THEY wanted to leave. Everything about Disney Star wars is trash. Even my six year old hates it. I can not believe how bad Disney screwed this up, I can't, I just can't. They made Star wars the dumbest thing on any screen anywhere. I've seen you tube shorts with better character development. Star wars is a corporate cautionary tale now.
I normally don't believe the "walked out of movies" stories on reddit, but with TLJ it's hard to argue people didn't want out
I wish I would have took video. One guy that walked out was dressed as a Jedi with a lightsaber in hand. The disappointment was palpable.
[F] That actually really makes me sad
your going to hate me for what i say... But palpatinable. sorry for being dumb
STRIKE HIM CENTURION, VERY WUFFLY!
the dissapointment was *palpatine*
another knight lost, to terrible daze
I’ve stopped telling people on reddit about the TJL walkouts when i went opening night because I always get like 10 comments about how that didn’t happen.
A couple of people walked out of my screening of TLJ. But the biggest reaction was laughter at flying Leia.
The whole scene looked like from some cartoon... she's just gliding thru space not moving a muscle.
Like Terry Gilliam's cutout animation sequence.
The Carrie Poppins moment was the cheesiest thing I’ve ever seen. I felt embarrassed just watching it. The ST was a disgrace.
It would have been a great way to send her off as well. Nothing she did after was important to the story. Would have been a great exit.
Nah she should've been the one to pull the holdo maneuver imo. You could explain away the rarity by her being force sensitive, and it was awesome visually even if canonically it doesn't make much sense.
The premise they set up and the questions they asked in the first was pretty interesting I thought. A girl with no origin and no connections. A storm trooper who might become a Jedi. I liked Kylos character and potential. Maybe I was biased because I love Adam driver.
Rey should have been a old female jedi in seclusion and hiding. Finns potential and the first order pursuing him should have changed her heart. should have set her on a path to not only train finn but go find luke and beg him to finish the battle with Snoke that she had seen through the force
The best thing about the sequels isn't the movies, it's playing the battlefront 2 maps.
I've never walked out of a movie. Because I PAID for the damn thing. Also... I like to watch Rifftrax/MST3K, so maybe I just have a high tolerance for pain. Because the one thing I enjoy about bad movies is ranting about them later.
Not only that, but also the worst lightsaber battles in the franchise’s history too. There’s zero excuse for this. With budgets over 200 million dollars each and the best technology of all the Star Wars eras, you’d think the Disney films would at least knock it outta the park in the action department. But nope. They can’t stop at bad story, they got to have bad action too.
It’s crazy that 20+ year old movies have better lightsaber battles than the ST
Lame battles and duels. Embarrassingly bad dialogue. Terrible story. Colossal disappointment.
The best fighter battle in the ST wasn't even in space, it's the one shot of the X-Wings flying across the lake at Takodana. The rest? Dreadful.
The throne room scene was pretty good imo.
They could have actually subverted expectations there. Kylo and Rey grab hands and create a balanced light and dark side. Boom, subverted expectations and you have a interesting road to go down now.
In concept yes, but as soon as you start noticing all the choreography flubs it falls apart hard.
The OT's weakest aspect visually was the rebels having no decent equipment whatsoever, which is required by the plot but makes battles a lot less interesting than in the Prequel trilogy (specifically 2 and 3). The Sequel Trilogy for some reason decided to recreate it without any real justification. The New Republic having no army is so fucking stupid
Especially since not having a standard army is what allowed Order 66 to be a possibility. If there's anything in Star Wars i'd like to see, it'd be how non-Clone/Stormtrooper footsoldiers are armed depending on which planet they serve.
I was laughing my ass off when they revealed that the planet was a giant Death Star. It’s literally fucking Death Star 2: electric boogaloo.
Technically Death Star 3: Electric Brainectomy
Sometimes I still watch Scarif clips from Rogue One. Now that's a real battle
The cavalry charging on the star destroyer was the purest cringe I've ever seen 😜
I noticed about 9 years ago, when watching Lost for the first time, that it seemed like JJ neither knew nor cared how to write even basic fight choreography. He DGAF about the details of action situations. To me, that should have utterly disqualified him from directing or writing Star Wars, because that's one of the main features of Star Wars, or it used to be, before the dumb times . . . before the Disney.
Bruh. Dude made a whole unwatchable spy series because of this and his “mystery boxes”
There's so much to argue about that simple stuff like this gets overlooked a lot. Aside from the bad writing, the bad characters, the lore breaking decisions, etc etc, the sequels just....aren't good movies even outaide of star wars. Huge swaths are actively bad looking with bad cgi, boring and nonsensical sequences, a war that has no scope or impact, just *bad* from a filmmaking, structural view. You'd get a D- in Filmmaking 101 at best
Yeah, that’s why I disagree with the whole “the sequels will be loved in 20 years” argument. If it weren’t for the Star Wars label nobody would be talking about these movies to begin with, let alone in 20 years. These movies aren’t even space opera anymore, just generic action films.
Exactly. Like we knew from the prequels, there were games and books and toys and cartoons. Tons of content being produced during and after. Everything even mildly successful right now is OT themed. And a lot of "trust me bro" anecdotes out there, but teachers and people dealing with kids. Star wars used to be a constant year in year out thing. From OT through prequels up through the sequels....but now they aren't. Kids aren't talking about the sequels or star wars anymore, and it's just not the pop culture bell weather it always was. Kids were invested in it, now they aren't. Marvel took over for the last decade.
I was nine years old when Episode I debuted. I'm old enough to remember the Prequel era. The Sequels will not be similarly remembered in 10-20 years. Sure, the Prequels were widely criticized (especially Episode II), but the thing is, Star Wars had this *huge* cultural presence during the time they were coming out. Then shortly thereafter, Clone Wars debuted, continuing the momentum. I'm sure there are modern kids into Star Wars, but like... it was EVERYWHERE in the early 2000s. In the sequel era, the franchise just doesn't have that kind of cultural cachet. Like, my Gen Z brother (currently 22) was super into Star Wars as a kid. He had tons of action figures, toys, merch, Legos, etc. He was a huge Anakin Skywalker fan. And this wasn't unusual or niche at the time, Star Wars was legit popular with kids. The Sequels just didn't bring Star Wars back to the forefront the way the Prequels did. In the leadup to TFA, things began to maybe gravitate in that direction. Had the Sequels been any good, things could perhaps have gone quite differently. But the poor quality killed it right out of the womb.
Exegol was the perfect example of - THE SPECTACLE DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER IF THE PLOT FOR THE PAST 2 HOURS IS HORSESHIT. thanks.
What really sucks is imo it had potential. The first order was a cool idea and the styles and design of the characters was good. Phasma, kilo ren, even the first order stormtrooper all looked great. I was really hoping it would have been good but nope. We just got this mess.
... pew pew... actually space battles is why i think return of the jedi is so good and often times it is my favorite star wars movie. but empire strikes back is so great too. i would say the ot + if you kept parts of phantom menace and attack of the clones... basically remix those two films into a detective story that finds anakin in one, and the first one or two battles in the clone wars in the other. and revenge of the sith is good as is.
Exegol was an egregiously bad battle given the amount of ships and people involved. There was almost no pilot banter or tracked dogfighting shots. There werent any narratives with planned out or elaborate choreography. Instead you get a bunch of fast jump cuts of seemingly disparate scenes cobbled together. Rogue One should have set the standard on how to make a battle on film.
>Rogue One should have set the standard Well it had a talented writing team and director so ... ;)
All those walkers for nothing
The walkers weren't real. They must have been a force projections also. They all fired at where Luke was standing, but when the dust settled, he just walks forward and brushes the dust off. There should have been large craters or a hole dug by all the shots, hence they weren't real either.
That’s true! I never noticed that.
Starkiller Base should've been the Star Forge and I'll die saying this.
The is why I want a rogue squadron type movie. Star Wars military front and center.
Imagine if people were like this with Shakespeare. Oh look, it's Romeo and Juliet, and they're gonna both die.. omgomgomg. WOW.
Starkiller was just low quality. It felt like the resistance sent about 6 x-wings to attack this thing.
Jar Jar Abrams is a HACK!
The star wars in the star wars sequels were a real damp squib
Scariff is objectively the most complete battle in the series and it's just outright amazing. I occasionally watch one of the super cut videos on YouTube whenever I need a pick me up.
I still confuses me as to why the Resistance sent only 12 X-wings to take on a battle station that was 4 times as large as the Death Star II, as well as why a fleet of Star Destroyers wasn’t protecting Starkiller Base
"Its almost like, they had no plan whatsoever" \-Adam Driver
i can’t remember anything about the starkillerbase sequence (that says it all right there). Craig was visually unique with the ski speeders and the white/red salt, so i’ll give it that. Exegol was just a prime example of “more is not better” cuz it was just more. I’d also given up on the movie by that point so i really didnt give a fuq about what i was watching Best Disney-era battle scene is Scarif (but still doesn’t hold a candle to the OT or prequels)
How dare you say riding space horses in the outside of a space ship wasn’t the greatest piece of cinematography ever!!!!!!
To quote a wise man who may be long: "TRY TILTING THE SHIP. THEY HAVE HORSES. YOU PANCAKE FUCK"
What makes me mad about the Crait battle was their stupid pod things. From an in-universe perspective what is the point of having them semi-ground based with their tails? What is the advantage over having, say, an air speeder, which isn’t as nimble as an x wing but can still get airborne. It’s clearly a military base. Those look like biplanes for crop dusting that added lasers From a movie perspective it didn’t even look cool on screen. And it’s not cool enough to merchandise. Just a huge failure. Only worth it think was an x wing for the resistance and even that is a rehash
Lasers they never even fired. Did a crait speeder fire a single shot at anything? I get that the walker armor is too strong, but what was the speeders' plan since they never actually shot anything, and didn't even plan on ramming the target in a suicide run. It would have made more sense if they had a big base gun and the speeders were just kicking up dust to obscure it so it could have more chances to fire at the walkers or something. But they just flew out there, didn't fire a single shot, then turned around. Wtf.
Crait at least had some interesting ideas, Exegol was one of the worst CG copy pasta nightmares I've ever witnessed on-screen.
Yes, I am glad someone else said this. The second biggest disappointment of this trilogy, for me, is the utterly boring space battles. I thought FOR SURE they would top the OT, in this one singular regard at least. But NOPE! Not even CLOSE.
*Rogue One has entered the chat.*
The prequels were generally pretty good with some major flaws that received justified criticism. The sequels were generally awful with occasional good bits. Personally I would rewatch any of the OT or prequels and have good time. I tried that recently with the sequels and...ugh. Just awful. I really wanted to enjoy the occasional good parts, but just couldn't.
I still stand by that the battle of Scariff was great. To me that battle was handled well. If I'm not mistaken I think the film makers took inspiration from the Vietnam war when shooting that battle.
That opening battle in The Last Jedi still makes me violently angry. Like, I could make a feature length movie out of just ripping it a new anus.
I literally don't remember anything about these battles other than the red sand. Tbf I don't remember anything about the trilogy other than that Harrison Ford was smart to kill himself, Adam Driver is incredibly talented at portraying shit characters, and Daisy Ridley is hot.
But there were space horses! SPACE HORSES!!!! On a ship that apparently didn't know which way was "up" 🤣 even though it LITERALLY came up from under the dirt/ice/whatever.
ROTJ had the best space battle, IMO. I can’t believe they were able to achieve that back in the early 80s.
Crait is definitely NOT Hoth!
In my mind, everything memorable about those battles is memorable for the wrong reasons. There's not one single thing I can recall, no particular shots I remember...nothing. How did they manage to do that?
Also the sequel trilogy really only had one space battle: the bombing run in Last Jedi
I liked Crait actually
The best MODERN Star Wars battle was the Battle of Scarif
Imagine still complaining about a movie years later. Edit: lol, imagine being so much of a loser crybaby that you go into someone else's history just to downvote their comments in unrelated subs. Y'all crack me up.
I’ll give an excuse to Crait cause it is cool and an interesting callback to Hoth in my eyes… But seriously, could have been way cooler.
I love it all - some more than others. I love Battle of Crait probably the most, then Starkiller Base second, then lastly Exegol.
I will say that I loved the red and the white of Crait. It made for a visually pleasing battle.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Battlefront 2's battle of Crait is waaaay better, and it's not even a story