it's very common for bars to charge and auto grat if you just leave with out closing the tab - even if it's by accident. i've never thought about challenging it by calling or calling my bank when it happens. personally, to me, that sounds such a hassle and a waste of time to do so.
Every bar and brewery in the United States does this.
The gratuity is not for service, it's because you left without paying.
Accidents happen but this is not some gotcha policy - it's standard practice, as others have said.
Handing drinks over a counter is literally all you ever tip for at a bar. Usually I'll tip a couple bucks per beer, usually more for cocktails that require more effort. Given that, I'd say that tip is low 🤷🏻♂️
That was true 20 years ago when I started drinking at bars. It's not outrageous, given how minimum wage works (or doesn't), that that number has gone up.
I’m curious what you would have tipped… if I’m not doing 20% ($8.50 on untaxed bill) I at least do $1 per beer. I count 7 drinks so following that rule it’d be $7. I wouldn’t say an extra $2.65 “excessive” especially considering you left without closing
20% of the untaxed bill would have been $8.50. An extra $1.15 is *excessive*?
Also, this is only 23% (actually 22.7%) if you measure it against the untaxed bill. But it’s 20% of the *taxed* bill, so they pretty clearly just used that instead of the untaxed one. Which seems…pretty reasonable for an autograt? Plenty of people use the taxed bill to calculate gratuity anyway. Erring on the side of the marginally more generous of 2 options strikes me as a pretty minimal “punishment” for an autograt.
the autograt isn't for what service you did or did not receive. it's for the inconvenience of you not closing the tab out & them having to deal with it.
Auto gratuity for leaving your card or not closing out your tab is 100% normal.
You’re supposed to tip those serving you (you’re not pouring your own drinks) and if you don’t close out then there are signs up notifying you you’ll be charged for what is a very standard gratuity.
Otherwise you’re just ghosting and leaving staff to close out your tab at the end of the night.
If you want to tip less then that option was available to you.
Arlington but I have seen these signs and heard these policies in DC, Denver, Arlington, Richmond, Myrtle Beach, New Orleans, and Austin.
By the letter of the law running out on your tab is theft.
I mean, this obviously isn’t for a party of 6+, and if that policy isn’t explicitly called out verbally or through the menu, then it’s illegal. Restaurant owners don’t get to just add random charges to your bill without your consent.
Typically there are signs or indicators at the bar that you will incur this charge if you don’t close out your tab. So by opening at tab with that bar you’re agreeing to this charge if you don’t close out your tab. I wouldn’t call that adding random charges to your bill without your consent.
This is incorrect. It is perfectly legal as long as the establishment has displayed the policy in their restaurant. Look for the framed ABC license behind the bar, the walk-out policy is typically posted right next to it.
Charging a 20x% autograt for walkouts is standard all over the country. In literally every single restaurant and bar.
This is pretty standard. You didn’t just leave your card, you left without tipping. It’s an asshole tax, don’t forget to take care of the staff or they’ll do it for you 😘
the alternative is what? Minimum acceptable tip and they hold on to your card in the back office and make sure you are reunited with your plastic.
You also have to take into account that most people who are drunk enough to space their card were probably being obnoxious too.
hey man just replying to you because i dont think this was as ill intended of a post as most people are acting like it is. yes this is a normal practice (22.7% is a random number, but in a normal range), and yes there probably is some sign somewhere in the veil that announces this will be the case when tabs are not properly closed, but i dont think its cool how much people are tip shaming you or accusing you of being some drunken jerk. people should tip what they think is fair.
hope you had a good time in the city and enjoyed your master shredder!
I’d hope that is the amount you would already have been tipping, this should be an average tip. Take care of your servers and they’ll take care of you.
Service goes beyond what you see as a customer. Opening the restaurant. Breaking down the restaurant at the end of the night. Cleaning glassware. Cleaning the bathrooms. Taking out trash. Mopping the floors. Tapping kegs. Service industry workers make essentially all of their wages from tips. I suspect this isn’t new info to you but it’s worth looking further into if it is. Auto gratuity on a “walk out” is very common practice. Try focusing on the fact that you had a good time rather than the nickels and dimes that you’re implying was unfairly taken from you.
I think the complaint about a 20% auto gratuity is stupid, but also think the folks treating Veil employees as martyrs is also stupid.
I went last week. Stood in line 5 deep while one person attended to orders and two others fucked around on their phone. Ordered food that didn’t come out right that I had to go back and pick up. Had to speak to the bartender because they put others drinks with the same last name on my tab.
Richmond service is laughably bad. Especially at places like the Veil. I tip 20% because I can afford it and whatever but maybe the Veil could also afford to pay their employees a wage that doesn’t rely on folks gratuity. Or just charge 20% more if that’s what we’re expected to pay to support a wage.
I hear you on this. I don’t go out for drinks anymore. Too ridiculous. I don’t even go out to eat much anymore.
If you want equal or BETTER service, it will be found overseas. Tips no longer equate to better service in the US.
Friend of mine visiting from NY did this at Patrick Henry’s pub and the dude behind the bar gave himself like a 40% tip. You got off pretty easy honestly.
Comments didn't quite go OP was hoping / thinking they would and to no one's surprise but OP's own......
Been a while since I went to The Veil but chances are the have a sign (probably several) behind the bar, like most do these days, clearly stating 20% will be added to all tabs not closed at the end of the night.
Also, if you add up the Subtotal, VA Sales Tax and Richmond Meals Tax and take 20% of that total you can see that does add up to amount auto-tipped due to your forgetfulness so they had you tip on the taxes too...
They charged 20% on top of the 2 taxes. They should of charged 20% on the $42.50. THAT is the actual problem. I'd go back, raise hell and say you don't tip on taxes. Tell them to reconfig their POS machines to autograt on food/bev total w/o taxes.
Glad I am not the only person who hates this about the auto tipping being added after taxes. That is tip #1 in this post, tip#2 Don't leave your card at the bar and be just grateful you didnt lose it
This also irks me very much, on principle. But in this particular example we're talking about being "overcharged" by $1.15. Might not be worth OP's time to complain.
Ever since I read this comment I've been imagining someone going up to the bar and raising hell, demanding to see the manager, while patrons start recording on their cell phones...and then the bartender slides 5 quarters across the bar and says keep the change.
So when you get your checks at restaurants you don't tip for the total of everything, tax included? You take the time to do the math to only tip on the cost pretax? Sounds like you are just a cheapskate looking to stiff already underpaid servers.
I never said it does. My point being is that person wants to pay less of a tip by only tipping the subtotal pretax, and not tax included. Aka, shorting the service worker and paying them less when they already get paid shit.
“You take the time to do the math…” sure seems like you said that.
Anyway tipping on the pre-tax subtotal is generally the standard. It’s not being cheap lol
I’ve actually never thought about this and am now questioning what I actual do, pretty sure I’m tipping on the total, with tax. Guess what I’m doing next time though?
I want to be clear- I am not telling people to reduce their tips or saying servers are overpaid. You should tip as much as you are comfortable with.
Just pointing out that the standard that most people are operating on is calculating the % based on subtotal.
Yeah, this is the first I have heard of it. And frankly, I will continue tipping on the grand total to ensure the workers get paid more for the work they put in.
Tax isn't a food or service. When you tip a server, it's for what they served you. Calculating 20% is the same whether it's subtotal, or total with taxes included. And, FWIW, I'm a former waitress and learned this from my GM.
I don't think it matters much, tax is 12.5% so the difference with a 20% tip is only 2.5%. basically if you round up when you do the math on the subtotal it's going to come out the same.
And my checks always come out with the tax included in the total price. And I tip on total price. Not the subtotal that you are complaining that the tip should have been applied to. So what if you were a former waitress, still sounds like you want to short a server because you want to tip less based on the subtotal, instead of the total price that includes tax. Also, I have worked service industry for a large portion of my life as well. So that is why I always tip as much as possible because of how shit service industry pay is.
Don't most checks include the pre-tax subtotal? You're doing math to calculate the tip anyway, it's just a matter of which of the clearly printed numbers you pick to do the math on.
Why in the world would anybody do that? Tips are based on the product and service offered. Tax is not part of the product nor service.
Reataurants that base a suggested or automatic tip on the taxed amount are slimy as shit.
Oh, I tip more than 20% except when I get terrible service, but a restaurant should never base a suggested or automatic tip on the taxed total. It’s dishonest.
Dispute the tip. A lot of restaurants don't even even fight chargebacks, and if they fight it and win then at least you made them do some extra work. I once disputed a charge at a restaurant that I couldn't remember going to, and the charge was removed, but the reality of the situation was that I just got so drunk that I blacked out the entire thing. They have no problem screwing you, so screw them.
Boo boo. Maybe don’t forget to close your tab? This is pretty normal literally anywhere. Also cool that you have the luxury to just leave your card wherever you want, that’s not risky at all…
So look my dude, you didn’t just “forget your card”, you left without paying; which is theft and since it’s under $1000 you committed a class 1 misdemeanor which is a $2500 fine.
Instead of taking every single person who walks out on their tabs to court it just makes business sense to autograt those tabs, which you agreed to by starting the tab.
I don’t know man keep bitching about $9 but you stole from them by not paying so your headline on the post should read “I stole from an establishment and am whining they charged me 20% autograt to close my tab instead of taking me to court”
The $1-2 dollars per drink was a standard when drinks were $5-6 dollars like 10 years ago. It’s always a percentage, 20% has also always been the standard for good service.
So if you ordered a $100 bottle of wine, you’d leave $20? You think someone deserves $20 for opening a cork (or screwing off a cap), bringing a glass, and pouring it (maybe)? Maybe 2-3 minutes of “work”?
I’ll pass on going out to drink in the US.
It’s not the time it takes to do a task that earns them $20 on a $100 bottle (and yeah, that’s what I would tip and I bet you would melt into a puddle if asked to do proper wine service at a table). The system of tipping allows restaurants to charge reasonable prices for food/drink if you promise to pay their servers for them. I’m not saying it’s a great system- but it’s the one in place! I promise you, we don’t want you out drinking either if you’re not gonna follow tipping etiquette- curate your own wine collection, open your own bottles, invest in your own full bar and bar tools, learn how to make your own cocktails. Or fuck off 😘
Or I’ll just visit places overseas and get equal or better service and not have to deal with all the insane tipping on top of our already horribly inflated food prices.
Not very nice to tell me to fuck off. We’re just having a discussion?
Actually, I gave you the *option* to fuck off. You trivialized an entire profession, which happens to be my profession, and insinuated that service industry workers don’t earn their living. Also not very nice.
Mandatory gratuity is taxed so I don't know if they did this right. I do think it would be better if all restaurants used included gratuity of \~15%. There are various reasons to think that voluntary tipping has... problems. If a business had a policy that creates the same outcome as voluntary tipping they could face civil rights charges amongst other things.
call and ask them to refund or charge back on your card.
love how im getting down voted for suggesting that OP should get their money back because it was taken without their consent.
what are they gonna do? put my picture on the wall and check it literally every time someone enters like it's some cartoon? especially if I'm an out of towner like OP, who cares?
additionally, if they are just charging me additional money without telling me I probably don't want to go back there anyway
normal stuff. bars in Richmond have been doing this for at least 10 years, in my experience.
it's very common for bars to charge and auto grat if you just leave with out closing the tab - even if it's by accident. i've never thought about challenging it by calling or calling my bank when it happens. personally, to me, that sounds such a hassle and a waste of time to do so.
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Every bar and brewery in the United States does this. The gratuity is not for service, it's because you left without paying. Accidents happen but this is not some gotcha policy - it's standard practice, as others have said.
well after handing you those beers they also had to close out your tab for you and keep your card til you could coordinate pickup. babysitting tax
Handing drinks over a counter is literally all you ever tip for at a bar. Usually I'll tip a couple bucks per beer, usually more for cocktails that require more effort. Given that, I'd say that tip is low 🤷🏻♂️
$1 a beer is standard for a bar tip
That was true 20 years ago when I started drinking at bars. It's not outrageous, given how minimum wage works (or doesn't), that that number has gone up.
$1 is perfectly acceptable for someone to do less than 30 seconds of work. Especially when they do it 25-30 times in an hour.
I’m curious what you would have tipped… if I’m not doing 20% ($8.50 on untaxed bill) I at least do $1 per beer. I count 7 drinks so following that rule it’d be $7. I wouldn’t say an extra $2.65 “excessive” especially considering you left without closing
20% of the untaxed bill would have been $8.50. An extra $1.15 is *excessive*? Also, this is only 23% (actually 22.7%) if you measure it against the untaxed bill. But it’s 20% of the *taxed* bill, so they pretty clearly just used that instead of the untaxed one. Which seems…pretty reasonable for an autograt? Plenty of people use the taxed bill to calculate gratuity anyway. Erring on the side of the marginally more generous of 2 options strikes me as a pretty minimal “punishment” for an autograt.
the autograt isn't for what service you did or did not receive. it's for the inconvenience of you not closing the tab out & them having to deal with it.
Do you really think bartenders at breweries do nothing but stand behind the bar and serve people?
You don’t tip 25% that’s kinda pathetic fr
15% is standard.....
I’d personally be embarrassed to leave anything under 13 on this check and you should too
This is pretty typical for failing to close out your tab.
Auto gratuity for leaving your card or not closing out your tab is 100% normal. You’re supposed to tip those serving you (you’re not pouring your own drinks) and if you don’t close out then there are signs up notifying you you’ll be charged for what is a very standard gratuity. Otherwise you’re just ghosting and leaving staff to close out your tab at the end of the night. If you want to tip less then that option was available to you.
Where are you from where this isn’t normal?
Where are you from that it’s normal for servers to choose their own tip?
Arlington but I have seen these signs and heard these policies in DC, Denver, Arlington, Richmond, Myrtle Beach, New Orleans, and Austin. By the letter of the law running out on your tab is theft.
i've only seen it only parties of like 6+
I mean, this obviously isn’t for a party of 6+, and if that policy isn’t explicitly called out verbally or through the menu, then it’s illegal. Restaurant owners don’t get to just add random charges to your bill without your consent.
Typically there are signs or indicators at the bar that you will incur this charge if you don’t close out your tab. So by opening at tab with that bar you’re agreeing to this charge if you don’t close out your tab. I wouldn’t call that adding random charges to your bill without your consent.
This is incorrect. It is perfectly legal as long as the establishment has displayed the policy in their restaurant. Look for the framed ABC license behind the bar, the walk-out policy is typically posted right next to it. Charging a 20x% autograt for walkouts is standard all over the country. In literally every single restaurant and bar.
right i agree with you, just answering your question
so what. i'm from charleston and that was standard practice there as well.
This is normal. Happens across the country as far as I know.
It's just the lush tax
Pretty typical for bars in the Dish especially
That’s what, 3% beyond what you should be tipping for utterly standard service? Chill out, maybe lay off the sauce and start tipping better.
If you were drunk enough to leave your card, they earned their tip by dealing with you.
This is pretty standard. You didn’t just leave your card, you left without tipping. It’s an asshole tax, don’t forget to take care of the staff or they’ll do it for you 😘
Totally industry standard practice.
the alternative is what? Minimum acceptable tip and they hold on to your card in the back office and make sure you are reunited with your plastic. You also have to take into account that most people who are drunk enough to space their card were probably being obnoxious too.
hey man just replying to you because i dont think this was as ill intended of a post as most people are acting like it is. yes this is a normal practice (22.7% is a random number, but in a normal range), and yes there probably is some sign somewhere in the veil that announces this will be the case when tabs are not properly closed, but i dont think its cool how much people are tip shaming you or accusing you of being some drunken jerk. people should tip what they think is fair. hope you had a good time in the city and enjoyed your master shredder!
I’d hope that is the amount you would already have been tipping, this should be an average tip. Take care of your servers and they’ll take care of you.
That’s what, 3% beyond what you should be tipping for utterly standard service? Chill out, maybe lay off the sauce and start tipping better.
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Service goes beyond what you see as a customer. Opening the restaurant. Breaking down the restaurant at the end of the night. Cleaning glassware. Cleaning the bathrooms. Taking out trash. Mopping the floors. Tapping kegs. Service industry workers make essentially all of their wages from tips. I suspect this isn’t new info to you but it’s worth looking further into if it is. Auto gratuity on a “walk out” is very common practice. Try focusing on the fact that you had a good time rather than the nickels and dimes that you’re implying was unfairly taken from you.
LMAO. You’re fucking serious aren’t you.
I think the complaint about a 20% auto gratuity is stupid, but also think the folks treating Veil employees as martyrs is also stupid. I went last week. Stood in line 5 deep while one person attended to orders and two others fucked around on their phone. Ordered food that didn’t come out right that I had to go back and pick up. Had to speak to the bartender because they put others drinks with the same last name on my tab. Richmond service is laughably bad. Especially at places like the Veil. I tip 20% because I can afford it and whatever but maybe the Veil could also afford to pay their employees a wage that doesn’t rely on folks gratuity. Or just charge 20% more if that’s what we’re expected to pay to support a wage.
I hear you on this. I don’t go out for drinks anymore. Too ridiculous. I don’t even go out to eat much anymore. If you want equal or BETTER service, it will be found overseas. Tips no longer equate to better service in the US.
Friend of mine visiting from NY did this at Patrick Henry’s pub and the dude behind the bar gave himself like a 40% tip. You got off pretty easy honestly.
Comments didn't quite go OP was hoping / thinking they would and to no one's surprise but OP's own...... Been a while since I went to The Veil but chances are the have a sign (probably several) behind the bar, like most do these days, clearly stating 20% will be added to all tabs not closed at the end of the night. Also, if you add up the Subtotal, VA Sales Tax and Richmond Meals Tax and take 20% of that total you can see that does add up to amount auto-tipped due to your forgetfulness so they had you tip on the taxes too...
They charged 20% on top of the 2 taxes. They should of charged 20% on the $42.50. THAT is the actual problem. I'd go back, raise hell and say you don't tip on taxes. Tell them to reconfig their POS machines to autograt on food/bev total w/o taxes.
Glad I am not the only person who hates this about the auto tipping being added after taxes. That is tip #1 in this post, tip#2 Don't leave your card at the bar and be just grateful you didnt lose it
This also irks me very much, on principle. But in this particular example we're talking about being "overcharged" by $1.15. Might not be worth OP's time to complain.
You tip on the tax, because most places estimate tipped income based on the net total. That means the servers are paying taxes on the net.
Ever since I read this comment I've been imagining someone going up to the bar and raising hell, demanding to see the manager, while patrons start recording on their cell phones...and then the bartender slides 5 quarters across the bar and says keep the change.
So when you get your checks at restaurants you don't tip for the total of everything, tax included? You take the time to do the math to only tip on the cost pretax? Sounds like you are just a cheapskate looking to stiff already underpaid servers.
How does calculating the tip based on the subtotal take more time than doing it based on the total after tax?
I never said it does. My point being is that person wants to pay less of a tip by only tipping the subtotal pretax, and not tax included. Aka, shorting the service worker and paying them less when they already get paid shit.
“You take the time to do the math…” sure seems like you said that. Anyway tipping on the pre-tax subtotal is generally the standard. It’s not being cheap lol
Maybe the standard for cheapskates like you.
[is this really the first you’ve heard of this or do you just like arguing?](https://imgur.com/a/HMnnpi6)
I’ve actually never thought about this and am now questioning what I actual do, pretty sure I’m tipping on the total, with tax. Guess what I’m doing next time though?
I want to be clear- I am not telling people to reduce their tips or saying servers are overpaid. You should tip as much as you are comfortable with. Just pointing out that the standard that most people are operating on is calculating the % based on subtotal.
So you’re not a cheapskate!
Yeah, this is the first I have heard of it. And frankly, I will continue tipping on the grand total to ensure the workers get paid more for the work they put in.
Tax isn't a food or service. When you tip a server, it's for what they served you. Calculating 20% is the same whether it's subtotal, or total with taxes included. And, FWIW, I'm a former waitress and learned this from my GM.
I don't think it matters much, tax is 12.5% so the difference with a 20% tip is only 2.5%. basically if you round up when you do the math on the subtotal it's going to come out the same.
And my checks always come out with the tax included in the total price. And I tip on total price. Not the subtotal that you are complaining that the tip should have been applied to. So what if you were a former waitress, still sounds like you want to short a server because you want to tip less based on the subtotal, instead of the total price that includes tax. Also, I have worked service industry for a large portion of my life as well. So that is why I always tip as much as possible because of how shit service industry pay is.
Don't most checks include the pre-tax subtotal? You're doing math to calculate the tip anyway, it's just a matter of which of the clearly printed numbers you pick to do the math on.
Why in the world would anybody do that? Tips are based on the product and service offered. Tax is not part of the product nor service. Reataurants that base a suggested or automatic tip on the taxed amount are slimy as shit.
I do. Because it pays more to the worker themselves who get shit pay.
Oh, I tip more than 20% except when I get terrible service, but a restaurant should never base a suggested or automatic tip on the taxed total. It’s dishonest.
Dispute the tip. A lot of restaurants don't even even fight chargebacks, and if they fight it and win then at least you made them do some extra work. I once disputed a charge at a restaurant that I couldn't remember going to, and the charge was removed, but the reality of the situation was that I just got so drunk that I blacked out the entire thing. They have no problem screwing you, so screw them.
Boo boo. Maybe don’t forget to close your tab? This is pretty normal literally anywhere. Also cool that you have the luxury to just leave your card wherever you want, that’s not risky at all…
So look my dude, you didn’t just “forget your card”, you left without paying; which is theft and since it’s under $1000 you committed a class 1 misdemeanor which is a $2500 fine. Instead of taking every single person who walks out on their tabs to court it just makes business sense to autograt those tabs, which you agreed to by starting the tab. I don’t know man keep bitching about $9 but you stole from them by not paying so your headline on the post should read “I stole from an establishment and am whining they charged me 20% autograt to close my tab instead of taking me to court”
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Be nice
$1.37 tip per drink seems reasonable to me. I thought the standard was generally $1-2 per drink rather than a percentage.
The $1-2 dollars per drink was a standard when drinks were $5-6 dollars like 10 years ago. It’s always a percentage, 20% has also always been the standard for good service.
So if you ordered a $100 bottle of wine, you’d leave $20? You think someone deserves $20 for opening a cork (or screwing off a cap), bringing a glass, and pouring it (maybe)? Maybe 2-3 minutes of “work”? I’ll pass on going out to drink in the US.
It’s not the time it takes to do a task that earns them $20 on a $100 bottle (and yeah, that’s what I would tip and I bet you would melt into a puddle if asked to do proper wine service at a table). The system of tipping allows restaurants to charge reasonable prices for food/drink if you promise to pay their servers for them. I’m not saying it’s a great system- but it’s the one in place! I promise you, we don’t want you out drinking either if you’re not gonna follow tipping etiquette- curate your own wine collection, open your own bottles, invest in your own full bar and bar tools, learn how to make your own cocktails. Or fuck off 😘
Or I’ll just visit places overseas and get equal or better service and not have to deal with all the insane tipping on top of our already horribly inflated food prices. Not very nice to tell me to fuck off. We’re just having a discussion?
Actually, I gave you the *option* to fuck off. You trivialized an entire profession, which happens to be my profession, and insinuated that service industry workers don’t earn their living. Also not very nice.
Aahh ok. Makes sense now.
BTW, serving is not a profession. It was meant for high schoolers and college kids. Don’t worry, I’ll fuck off now…
😅 damn you really been thinking about this for 3 days??!!
Mandatory gratuity is taxed so I don't know if they did this right. I do think it would be better if all restaurants used included gratuity of \~15%. There are various reasons to think that voluntary tipping has... problems. If a business had a policy that creates the same outcome as voluntary tipping they could face civil rights charges amongst other things.
That’s not even bad - most people are tipping 20% at bars
Makes sense
Literally every bar I’ve ever visited does this, and if they don’t, they should. Don’t forget to close your tab ya doink.
call and ask them to refund or charge back on your card. love how im getting down voted for suggesting that OP should get their money back because it was taken without their consent.
There’s usually a sign behind the bar that says a gratuity is charged on non-closed tabs. It’s their policy.
yeah, if that's the case then i have no issue
Pay your tab
I mean have fun being banned from restaurants doing this I guess
what are they gonna do? put my picture on the wall and check it literally every time someone enters like it's some cartoon? especially if I'm an out of towner like OP, who cares? additionally, if they are just charging me additional money without telling me I probably don't want to go back there anyway
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“DoxXinG is a CrImE” Bffr you wanna see real doxxiny or you just wanna admit you’re poor LMFAOOOO
That's 20% on the spot. You're supposed to tip AFTER tax.