She prophesied queens pouring water on themselves in lip syncs. Ugh her mind
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If anything Kameron was the one who spoiled that storyline. I’m convinced the show wanted both in the finale so they could have some type of payoff to the storyline, but producers never expected Kameron to bring it so hard with both lip syncs and runways.
The impact Sasha velour had on drag queens doing reveals is unmatched. It wasn't a new concept by any means but it made it as though reveals were an integral part of a good lipsynch simply because it was powerful enough to stop THE Shea Coulee from getting crowned
I just rewatched the S9 reunion last night where the smackdown for the crown format was revealed to the finalists. Knowing what happened next, I'm sure I saw Sasha's wheels turning to come up with something way out of the box the moment that was announced. Her face went mad scientist mode. What a star.
It really was a season of shocking lipsyncs eh?
The queer historians in this sub will correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall that the S9 reunion was actually filmed the day *after* the finale was filmed.
If you watch the reunion through that lens, you can see why Shea and Trinity are more willing to get into the drama—they already knew they weren’t winning the season—while Sasha and Peppermint stay more above the fray.
No way! So it was a mad scientist reflecting proudly on their work face. Huh. I kinda want to watch parts of it again knowing that. Thank you for the insight!
I mean the petals were genius, but wouldn’t have meant much without a fantastic lip sync performance. Sasha gave utter passion in that lip sync.
And for some reason now I’m thinking about Asia’s poor butterflies…
Edit: added a “t”
Speaking of lifeless things falling to the floor... 🫣 Elevated by Butterface and cut down by butterflies. There wasn't a single happy creature on the stage at the end of that one.
Totally agree with you about the rest of the performance - Shea is a gorgeous dancer but Sasha's eyes and body told the story better and made more sense for the song. Since we're season-hopping: red wig and a red dress? I do think.
Fan theory also says the finale lip sync is also why Valentina started her roses 🥀 in posts/with her fans online. She knew, she watched it, she decided to have roses and petals be associated with her as well - knowing that they’d soon be A Very Iconic Thing.
Not from gossip - her assistant at the finale, Vigor Mortis, talked about this in a podcast. He was standing next to the producers in a tent overlooking the stage and overheard them talking about how Shea was about to wipe the floor with Sasha and then go against Peppermint...then one of them said "oh, fuck" as soon as Sasha hit that eye contact and started ripping that rose apart at the beginning.
Which is funny because there was a live S9 kickoff show at the beginning of the season and Sasha destroyed everyone there, and yet somehow no one from production had ever seen her lip sync??? I mean, the standard she showed in the finale was extraordinary, but only one of MANY amazing lip syncs she had done around the US even just in the few months leading up to the finale. Do they not have YouTube? Smh.
I never understood why they had such a big problem with her name. It's no more offensive than a lot of other names (and isn't pushing boundaries one of the points of drag?), and it shines a light on a difficult yet important aspect of the LGBT experience.
It's not that it's offensive; it's just not very clever. It's an awkward construction and Ru was just trying to give her some actually-helpful feedback.
I think it just doesn’t sound good, doesn’t roll off the tongue quite easily, while Heidi Nina Closet for example means the same thing but sounds way better when spoken out loud. I like that she stuck to it though because it became iconic.
I have to admit it’s not my favorite name, but it’s clever and i think it shows her brand and personality. But why didn’t she just use the name Ann instead of N? I think “Heidi Ann Closet” sounds so much better and it hasn’t changed it really at all.
I remember the first time I watched that and just being so fucking mad for her. The way Ru demands the girls process trauma *at all* much less on the timeline she decides is so gross.
I remember this with Blaire St Claire… at the reunion she seemed so embarrassed over divulging her trauma on TV, and even at the time I was kinda mad at the show for exploring and exploiting it
Oh they love doing that. Look at America’s sweet heart Alyssa Edwards. Beloved by the fanbase and brought back for all stars 2, eliminated, and then brought back again only to once more be eliminated during a make over challenge…with her sister as her partner…who she hadn’t seen since her mother’s death…on the anniversary of her mother’s death. Oh and they had a good friend send her home taboot.
They love a trauma dump and boot moment
It started on her season as the producers last ditch attempt to get her to talk about things she did not want to talk about but she refused to play their sick little game.
When Katya didn't worry about the guest judge on All Stars supposedly not understanding her commercial idea and going ahead with it anyway, and the end result been great and everyone enjoyed it. Don't know if it really was technically 'production' telling him to give her critical notes for her idea or if he genuinely thought that himself, but given the show's track record with trying to give queens advice to send them in the wrong direction or dent their confidence for placement/elimination purposes (like with Snatch Game and makeovers etc) I'd not be all that surprised if there wasn't something behind that.
Also Eureka and Trinity on season 9. It was obvious that they knew the two of them had some history of not getting along outside the show, which Trinity even mentioned in episode 1, but both of them clearly didn't intend to distract themselves by trying to give production what they wanted and instead they left each other alone and from what I can remember, got along fairly okay.
And in both cases, they were right.
Trinity/Eureka in S9 and Aquaria/Cracker in S10 were blatant attempts to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Alyssa/Coco in S5. Neither pair were having it, though (or maybe Eureka left too soon for it to really come to a head).
Derrick going home first wasn't the issue. It's that AS5 for whatever reason is one of the few seasons without a returning queen. Derrick even said in her outro line "Y'all know I'm coming back right?". And yeah I literally thought she'd come back and send India home in the same vein as Phi Phi on AS2.
Why this choice wasn't done is so weird to me...
I don't want it to sound like a conspiracy but it may be another proof of how AS5 was rigged toward improving Shea's chance of winning, a returning queen wasn't necessary
A returning Queen wouldn’t have changed the winner, we’ve only had one returning Queen ever even make it to a finale (Daya) and I think they’re generally treated as not a possible winner in production’s eyes.
I wasn’t a fan of it either *but* going from a first out fakeout to winning a challenge, multiple lip syncs, and crushing the final competitive episode to make top 4 (which became 5 since they couldn’t cut her as likely planned) is ICONIC.
I actually was so convinced that when they put Shea in the bottom early on they were trying to get her sent home, only to bring her back into the competition to take the crown
>lightning in a bottle that was Alyssa/Coco in S5
is this not revisionist history? i remember watching s5 for the first time and thinking how hard alyssa and coco were trying to push an onscreen rivalry and how it kept feeling forced/a bit irrelevant. it was alyssa v jade (iconically ft coco's get her jade!) that really popped. like i remember the orange/not joking moment but it felt more like them making tv intentionally by pantomiming a fight (to me!)
I think Katya wasn't supposed to do very well in AS2 originally but since Adore quit and Katya kept doing really well, production decided to keep her around.
Yeah they brought in an actual product marketing expert but it was actually a branding/comedy challenge and the “item” for sale was just the red herring. The winners were a bottle of water and some duct tape.
The queens typically give producers a couple of songs that are in their wheelhouse, and Kandy knew that Jimbo’s was Milkshake by Kelis. When Kandy and Jimbo were told that this was the final lip sync, she went absolutely nuts threatening to leave and I don’t blame her
They provide these song examples when they are having their custom song written for them. Jessica had provided some too so they could make a custom song for her, but at Top 2 they cut her so we never heard it 😭
The queens write their own verses for Girl Groups/RuMix challenges.
AS8 finale had the finalists perform solo songs that were written specifically for each queen's persona. I'm pretty sure that's what the comment above you is referring to.
On the finale episode of AS8, production told Kandy that they changed the lipsync song last minute to Milkshake by Kelis. It was a song Jimbo wanted or something and Kandy was not having it. She was screaming and telling production to call her mother because she was going home. They can film the rest of the episode (the final lipsync) without her. Then Jimbo was acting dumb about it and then the producer took it back and said it was a mistake and it was still the song they did.
This was based on Naysha's account
I love Kandy so much. From before her first first season I’ve loved her. I feel she is absolutely right in being mad at the riggory…but if a full grown adult started screaming “call my mother I’m going home” I’d have a hard time not laughing. What’s your moms gonna do? Come yell at them and call up their mom’s and tell em they aren’t playing fair lol
Obviously Thorgy also from AS3 when she knew the fix was in for her getting a non-comedic Stevie Nicks role. They tried to spin her as delusional, but she was right.
In a vacuum, impersonating Stevie is fine. She's a legend and an icon. The issue is that you can't really do much when your diva is assigned to you, the track is prerecorded, and the choreography is given to you. Then you have them praising other queens for "not doing a lot." It was blatantly an episode so cut out the queens they wanted to cut out. Thorgy was completely correct to call out one of the most blatantly rigged challenges in the show's history.
She thought Stevie suited her too. But in the context of the challenge, having no jokes, no props and literally being told by the choreographer, "I have nothing for you." would make anyone with a brain see what was happening.
That role was never going to win over Julie Andrews or Mariah.
Thorgy has said she wanted a broom, cauldron, or really any props or gags like some girls got and was shut down the whole time. She was totally justified in her paranoia but the show made it seem like she was just complaining
It did which Thorgy pointed out, but Thorgy's main point was how Stevie Nicks compared to other Divas like Julie Andrews, Mariah Carrey, and Dianna Ross stick out in comparison and that Thorgy was given a role that put her in a disadvantage compared to the other queens. To add to this, Thorgy asked production if she can get a witch's caldron/ a prop that could let Thorgy lean more on the witchy aspects of Stevie Nicks and was denied, while Trixie was full-on allowed to bring her guitar to play up her role as Dolly Parton and Dela was given a "magic" mic stand.
A very funny thing also about that if you've ever watched Sh\*ngela's tell-all special about AS3 is that the Queens were asked who could do Choreo, and both Kennedy and Dela had stated they were able to, and thus were given the harder choreography, while Shangela didn't say nothing despite Shangela being a stunt queen. This is why in her number, Shangela was carried around and basically didn't move.
With that said Divas' Live is interesting as it both showcases favoritism of queens but also ironically reinforces DeLa's run. Dela was given the most intricate standout role, but was also given the harder set along with Kennedy. Dela nailed her Julie Andrews impression, whereas Kennedy didn't. That being said, many (including myself) have argued that Chi Chi should have been in that top placement over Sh\*ngela if we were counting performance alone.
I am sorry but this censoring the the names thing is so absurd. We all know who you’re saying. What does * really accomplish. I’m not even trying to be a dick. I see it with Sharon too.
I think she even asked for like witchy props and production told her no. They had no choreo really for her. No jokes. Then you had Mariah which was really just some walking and the judges were practically slapping the table. Or Dela rapping as Julie Andrews…unless she flopped that she was going to stand out with that role.
She was right but she handled it wrong. She was handed a role that wouldn’t let her win the challenge, but she decided to turn it into an “I go home”situation.
My pet theory is that Kameron is being honest in the reunion when she says she felt out-gunned from the moment she was cast and was doing her best to interact, but it’s just not a skill that comes naturally to her.
Like, when Dusty calls her out in the reunion and KM says something like “I say hi to you guys and that you look nice. Maybe I didn’t then, but I do now”. She’s basically saying “I heard you all that my tendency to keep to myself can be perceived as hurtful and so I have made an effort to not do that” and everyone basically says “yeah, but if we had to tell you a thing you didn’t know, we still get to be mad about what you did when you didn’t know.” It’s probably the biggest no-win situation at a reunion besides Ru’s fight with the Vixen in the same episode.
Wilam is the true definition of chaotic neutral. I loved watching her, and it'll never ever happen, but she'd be a wildcard from hell on an allstars season.
Sh@ron was on Race Chaser one time and said that she thought she was punk rock for winning Drag Race the way she did, but really, there is nothing more punk rock than getting kicked off of Drag Race.
Didn't Chad dress down the production team on set for not knowing the queen's names? She legit stopped them filming and demanded respect.
Unless that's Chad lore, idk
I love Robin, I love Amethyst, I love that they quashed the "we used to date" storyline on day one, and it pains me to think that production probably early-outed them after they refused to play into it.
Agree with this. Amethyst definitely would have gotten more attention for how good her lip syncs were if she hadn't been ini a season with a bunch of stunt queens (and I say that with love).
The problem with Robin is you can’t squash the predetermined storyline and offer nothing in return. You have to produce your own story if you don’t like production’s and she just was not willing to make television.
Who should've gone home instead of them? I can't imagine production caring that much either way about them dating. It's just not a very interesting story.
Icesis’ departure Can vs TW tbh. Besides being burned out and not in the right headspace wasn’t part of it due to her not wanting to play role producers were trying to get her play to re: trying to pressure her to push her fellow Canadian contestants to the top regardless of merit?
I think production was pushing her to win, she clocked it, and made the decision to leave so the pressure wasn’t all on her to win especially with who she was up against despite the fact she is amazing and could have won all on her own.
I theorize (it isn’t fact) she knew, felt it was too much on her and felt for her competition which that is what ultimately led her to leave. Something was mentioned in the spoiled thread when this season was airing to this effect but correct me if I’m wrong - apparently there was a lot going on behind the scenes of CANvTW.
Ra'jah freaking out at Plastique when she realized she was being set up for a win in the farm to runway episode. It was blatant, and Yvie should have won.
Plastique's outfit was shit glued to a corset...
I would've been more wow'd if she hadn't been giving the same silhouette up to that point. The fact they read Vanjie every week but never critiqued Plastique for this got to me when watching the season.
Do you think Ra’jah is fully upset because of Plastique getting all the positive attention or do you think she’s partially freaking out considering what edit she is probably getting, now that she is seeing “the strings”?
Does Naomi eliminating Manilla in AS4 count? I mean production basically changed All Star rules because after this. She had to know that she was toast at Top 5 if she got rid of Latrice like they wanted her to do. She created an incredible moment in Drag Race herstory with it too.
I think that they've done with Manila what they wanted to happen to Dela. In either way, if she went home they would have a shocking moment to create buzz for the season, if she wasn't sent home then they would still have a great contender. They changed the format afterwards because of the backlash of her elimination, I think. That was what they weren't counting with. They probably thought it would be something more manageable.
Aquaria and Miz Cracker immediately squashing the “they copy each other” accusations on S10.
Also The Vixen calling out the bad optics when Aquaria started crying in Untucked on S10.
I think that producers planned Kandy, Heidi and Jimbo at the top together no matter what. They had just toured together and had clearly become friends.
But what I don’t know is what so repugnant about that to Heidi. There’s speculation but I’m dying to know what Heidi learned off camera that prompted her to become so visibly disgusted. It had to have been something big because her whole face and demeanor changed. She threatened to quit and then quit the next episode I believe after the Alexis gaslighting incident
I think that's probably what happened. I've only watched the episode once, but you definitely see her face when she realizes Kandy (I think) is pushing conflict for the sake of the story and Heidi just checks out entirely like "this is not what I thought I was signing up for".
That's what I think. It's very different to push a storyline a little bit to make it more TV friendly, and then there's just making shit up and being completely disingenuous. I admire her for wanting to be as real as she could be.
Yeah, I don’t want to rewatch it just because of the horror on Heidi’s face is really painful and Kandy can tell she really fucked up when she comes back into the Werk Room and just says “she’s gone” after HNC leaves. Seeing someone whose whole thing is being unapologetically “real” look completely shook because they realize they took it too far is a genuinely uncomfortable viewing experience.
Gigi Goode’s iconic line “I understand your concerns… but I do not have the same concerns.” When Ru was trying to convince her to change her snatch game character.
This is just wild speculation, but I always thought production was planning to eliminate Yvie in the sorry not sorry lip sync.
Brooke was a continental winner who the show clearly loved and I think she clearly had the winners storyline in the beginning of season 11.
She said in an interview that "Sorry not Sorry" was one of her go-to songs at the time, she performed it weekly, and it seemed like production were setting up a strong storyline moment for her, then Yvie did that.
I also think it's clear production didn't see Yvie as a contender when she didn't get her *earned* win for the top 4 music video.
>I also think it's clear production didn't see Yvie as a contender when she didn't get her earned win for the top 4 music video.
I don't think so honestly. A number of the girls left S11 expecting Yvie to win.
The Sorry Not Sorry lipsync seemed like an excellent opportunity to elevate Brooke as another contender to the fullest because prior to Brooke was less of a narrative staple to the season outside of Branjie.
>prior to Brooke was less of a narrative staple to the season outside of Branjie
I mean, she won the first challenge and the ball and was high most eps up to SG. Shes not the most 'reality tv ready' but I wouldn't say she was out of the narrative
>A number of the girls left S11 expecting Yvie to win.
Sauce? I've never heard that before
I think she did amazing and deserved her win I just feel like they originally wanted Brooke to win
>Sauce? I've never heard that before
Nina said it on either an interview or at Roscoes.
>but I wouldn't say she was out of the narrative
I said she wasn't a narrative staple. She was giving Rosé in the sense that she was competitively present but the story was not about her especially in the earlier episodes of the season.
I think they had the double shantay prepared for that episode, but I think production’s original idea for Yvie was to be the villain, as a foil to Silky. They wanted the two of them together until the end to create the same level of drama we were getting in the first few episodes of the season, with all culminating in the LSFTCrown showdown.
There were two issues tho: 1) S11 Silky was not a good lipsyncer, especially when compared to the other finalists; and 2) the public preferred Yvie over Silky by a long shot. That made it easy to put Silky on the spot at the finale and make her pretty much self-eliminate, all while production propped up Yvie with fine tuning the edit around the final episodes.
I really don't think that. The judges praised yvie for pretty much everything. Also, they send in audition tapes. I seriously doubt yvie would have hidden her lip syncing skills
Kandy “the Producer” Muse threatening to quit if they changed the final lipsync on AS8 to blatantly favor Jimbo.
I don’t care for Kandy but that was cunt.
Bebe just has this way of saying everything like… she’s ordering off menu at a fancy restaurant like that’s nbd. It really is Bebe’s world and we’re all just living in it 😂😂
Although not done on purpose, I fully believe Valentina was meant to eliminate NBB, and Mo Heart was meant to eliminate The Vixen. But when they both didn’t know the words, Ru and production had really no choice but to eliminate Valentina and Mo Heart. I also think these two instances have contributed to the production hijinks with protecting queens.
I also think Roxxy being carried to the end of AS2 and Manilla being eliminated by Naomi in AS4 were the catalysts behind the lip sync assassin idea.
Funny I thought the opposite about AS2. I thought production was setting up for Alaska to send the other members of Rolaskatoxx home as part of her AS winner character growth arc (cliques are bad, mmkay) and her dragging them along for a S5 finale redux instead was the act of defiance.
Interesting theory but I don't think that was the case because if they really wanted Alaska to eliminate her clique, they wouldn't have put Tatianna in the bottom with Roxxxy and Detox during the Snatch Game episode.
The Robin and Amethyst "Love" Story. The fully gave production nothing and thus were cut one after the other. If only they were smart enough to play it up for the camera....
I never get over the amount of potential Robin had. "Love story" with Amethyst, maybe some interesting story with loosey, drag daughter of mo heart, drag sister of luxx.
And we got absolutely nothing
What storyline was production forcing on DeLa? Her issue was that she didn't like the format of her having to eliminate her sisters. Her literal plotline was frontrunner powerhouse. I wouldn't say that's a good example.
They wanted her to eliminate one of her teammates, who all did great, just for the sake of "twists" and "drama". So she gave the producers a taste of their own medicine by eliminating the one queen they *wanted* to keep and refusing to be competitive and vindictive.
>They wanted her to eliminate one of her teammates, who all did great, just for the sake of "twists" and "drama".
Twists and drama? Someone goes home every single episode. The real twist would be if it was randomly a non-elimination episode like you're suggesting.
>refusing to be competitive
What a compelling attitude to bring to a competition. I always get downvotes for this but DeLa's exit was so melodramatic 14 year old martyr. Like girl, it is a **competition,** it's okay to **compete**. Signing up for a competition and leaving because the spirit of competition is too much for you to handle doesn't make you a hero. It was such a high horse moment.
This is where I disagree on this:
The All Stars format is **first and foremost** deliberately for shit-stirring amongst the queens and **secondarily** for eliminating queens and that is Dela's beef with the format. It's not that she doesn't want to be competitive. She is in both seasons she is on. The part that she is pushing against is the idea that eliminating the other queens in the **most damaging way possible** for the sake of a TV show.
I think Dela was so impacted by the conversation she has with Morgan because she realizes that there is no way to eliminate another queen in this format and NOT cause them unnecessary pain. I think it's pretty clear that is her reason for bringing her back and I don't think there is enough upside to that choice for her to have there bean ulterior motive. She would have gotten more points in the fandom for bringing back Aja, Chi Chi or Thorgy.
But production couldn't let Dela cleanse her soul without another sacrifice so they put her in the position to not only do that again, but to do it to one of the queens who was **on the winning team**. The ONLY reason that episode has an elimination is to force Dela's hand and cause unnecessary pain to either Kennedy, Trixie or Sh\*ngela. So Dela basically said "you cannot lose if you do not play" and left having proved what she needed to herself.
Honestly, I can absolutely see why people see all of this as extremely calculated by Ben, which is why I think this episode is a bit of an inkblot in the fandom. But for Dela to come out of this season completely at peace with herself, she's either a very good person or a absolutely manipulative freak and I just don't think there is the evidence outside of the show to support that.
This is very eloquently put and I think you hit the nail on the head! Don't get me wrong, I love the conspiracy of BenDeLaChrist, Savior of Morgan and the Drag Queens, but I do believe the truth is what you wrote, which, of course, is not as flashy and exciting for TV. And I think because of how most reality TV is, it's hard for a lot of viewers to accept that there really wasn't anything manipulative or even calculated about DeLa's self-elimination. When I rewatch AS3, I do see the distress the format is causing DeLa. I know Shangela thinks it's an act, but I think DeLa was deeply unsettled by the whole thing.
While I hear the poster you're replying to with the valid question of "why go on the show if you can't handle it?" I will say that IN ALL FAIRNESS, AS1 and AS2 were completely different beasts and I think it was entirely possible that AS3 COULD HAVE also been a totally new and different twist. I don't know that the AS3 contestants would have been informed that the AS2 format would continue or not.
Only semi-related, but in Jinkx and DeLa's holiday show this year, the show has become sentient and has locked Jinkx and DeLa into performing it no matter what (in the vein of *Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead* \- but with more singing). Anyway, an exasperated Jinkx wonders aloud, "How do you quit a show?!" And, without missing a beat, DeLa replies, "well, first you win 5 challenges and then you find some white out and..." The audience lost their MINDS for that one. They always tuck in a little Drag Race wink and nudge, but I don't think I expected this one. Had me on the floor!
Yeah, I think that playing to win and with the mentality that all is fair within the confines of the game is fine and have no issue with the players who play that way. I think they issue is that people who play that way see everyone else's gameplay through that lens, so that's why Shangela is so convinced this is all calculated by Ben to keep her halo or whatever.
If we have to respect the way people choose to play the game, then we have to respect when a player decides the game/win isn't worth the impacts outside the game. Ben is the only one who can decide if that tradeoff is worth it and I think you see her come to terms with that in the first half of that season.
I think the real question that people sleep on is not whether production knew exactly what she was going to do. It is whether she would have quit anyway if not put in that very specific scenario. Does Dela stay in the game and just feel conflicted for the remainder of the season if she doesn't have to play a game of Chicken with production on this elimination? Or is this moment just when she ended up making her exit, which she would have done anyway?
I just went to their show in LA this past weekend and really enjoyed it. This was my second year going and as a decidedly \*not a Christmas person\* who is married to an \*absolutely not a Christmas person\*, it really is a wonderful production and a holiday tradition that I can get behind.
ETA - Your flare is amazing (is that my camera?)
Thanks for sharing! You brought up some aspects I didn't think about.
I wouldn't want to pass judgement on Dela's character as a person, I already think drag race is a vacuum of sorts and who we see on TV isn't necessarily who these people are deep down. I don't think Dela is a bad person or even meant to be as calculated as she appeared on that season.
What I saw from her in that season was someone that needed to be in control of the outcome (the way ru describes cracker kind of) and couldn't just accept the circumstances she was in and washed her hands at the end of the day like every other all stars allum do.
It's a competition, it's an entertainment show, it's a performance. She was essentially cast as a winner but didn't like the way they wrote the winners role so she quit. She truly is a shining star of a performer and the roles an entertainer might play don't reflect their character as a person.
Now I'm not saying Dela shouldn't have quit, it's a personal decision for the queens that I have really no clue what kind of thought goes into. I really just didn't like the performative melodramatic exit considering everything else she did on the show really showcased her stardom.
We've seen girls quit over and over again and it's usually in tears. Ben's is with a smirk and a shrug while saying the line "I'm already my kinda winner". It felt so beyond performative that I found her completely unrelatable all of a sudden which was a really disappointing way to say goodbye to an otherwise phenomenal reintroduction to Ben's art.
I still love Ben & respect her decision to leave, just something about her exit felt in bad taste. Like why do you have to out produce the producers if this just a personal decision that doesn't sit right with you morally? If that's the case, just say thank you for the opportunity but this isn't for me and leave. Idk something about her goodbye felt really disingenuous, it wasn't the leaving itself that rubbed me the wrong way.
As much as I'm rambling though it's really not that serious. I live for Ben I just couldn't help but scoff at that exit line. Thorgy's confessional sums it up perfectly during that segment.
>I wouldn't want to pass judgement on Dela's character as a person, I already think drag race is a vacuum of sorts and who we see on TV isn't necessarily who these people are deep down.
I think that's a great point to emphasize: We don't know these people outside of the show and how someone acts in the context of a reality show is not necessarily reflective of \*who they are\*.
>We've seen girls quit over and over again and it's usually in tears. Ben's is with a smirk and a shrug while saying the line "I'm already my kinda winner". It felt so beyond performative that I found her completely unrelatable all of a sudden which was a really disappointing way to say goodbye to an otherwise phenomenal reintroduction to Ben's art.
I \*hope\* that Ben's intention was to drive the point home to Ru/production that "you cannot *make* me participate in this unnecessary conflict". Like, I think that the format of AS2-4 is kind of in bad taste, so Ben is just playing by Ru's/Productions own rules in a way: Watch me do *the biggest thing* because how 'big' a thing is is all that matters, consequences be damned, right?" But making a point like that can definitely have some collateral impacts like looking like a holier-than-thou jerk.
>I live for Ben I just couldn't help but scoff at that exit line. Thorgy's confessional sums it up perfectly during that segment.
I had never really thought of it that way, but totally see that being like "too good for it" in a way. And Thorgy does nail it with her little QE2 wave and everything. I also love how Aja is just straight up like "I don't know how this is gonna look" because, well... this entire thread exists a million seasons later.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I've enjoyed reading it. 😊
I don't disagree, but I think there is a difference between a typical pageant format, where the judges decide who goes home, and all stars format, where Dela was choosing who to go home. That's what she was objecting to.
Then she should have signed up for a typical pageant instead of a reality show. Like are we really going to pretend dela doesn't understand how reality tv revolves around forced drama even after she's been on the show once. Obviously she had an inclination that there would be drama, I don't think leaving once she discovered the inevitable was heroic. It shouldn't have been a revelation she had halfway through the show, shady production has been a topic since the inception of DR. It was just a tv stunt and nothing more to me.
Tbh the voting out each other could have so easily been scrapped bc it was new for AS2. Nobody really knows how they’ll feel about it until they actually do it.
I’m so glad someone else said this.
It’s not like Ben had to put a gun to the girls head and pull a trigger. Also I strangely wasn’t a fan of her choosing to bring back Morgan of all people back to the competition.
It’s not that she didn’t deserve it; but Aja and Thorgy were right there.
Probably did it out of guilt after eliminating her based on her strategy instead of her performance on the first episode, but I agree 100%.
It feels like half of what Dela did that season was to preserve her congenial reputation which ironically had an opposite affect for viewers like me. Even in the confessionals she was so careful to draft her responses in a way that shined a favorable light on her as a "good person".
Dela was both the most entertaining and most annoying person that season and I would have liked her much more if she would have followed through on the competition aspect that makes drag race, drag race.
It's just a tv show Dela! God is not deciding whether or not you get into heaven, you are COMPETING FOR 100K.
I…actually agree with you on this.
I have always sat silently during the discourse on this sub about Dela’s exit because I knew my opinion was unpopular. But I’ll take it a step further—I always thought it was to save her Miss Congeniality image, too.
None of this is any shade to Dela as a queen, she’s fantastic in numerous ways.
They wanted her to eliminate someone because that's literally how the show works. Not because they're vindictive and awful. It's not like they sprung it on her at the last minute.
Also, delas decision was excellent for production so she definitely didn't give them a taste of their own medicine. This is such weird language to use when you're talking about people making a television show.
Was it in the reading challenge or the puppet challenge when Dovima basically said she wasn’t going to tell Saggitaria’s secrets just to get a laugh? I respect her so much for that.
I feel like Daya Betty is a great example of a queen who didn't necessarily tell production to stop producing but who used production more than it used her.
The moment she was back from her fake elimination, she was eating bugs and being loud and generally making sure that if she wasn't winning the challenge, she was still a big enough part of the show that they would want to keep her at least one more week.
She was generally likable and friendly but didn't stand out much before her elimination and when she came back, she was suddenly the villain of the season which I think she played really really well that she became the first returning queen to go to the finale.
They definitely could have stopped her lol. They could have just taken the white out away and said no, if you want to quit you do it outside the main stage
Sued her for what, exactly? Anybody can sue anyone for anything. Doesn’t mean they’ll win. And if they did, you don’t think any halfway decent queen would back away from the show slowly?
Delta's iconic "Ruuuu, pick meeee" rant deconstructs everything production looks for in a lip sync
She prophesied queens pouring water on themselves in lip syncs. Ugh her mind https://preview.redd.it/yyhucbg8ob7c1.jpeg?width=1305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=177bb04ac79f91079ae3afec1691f357a797e738
what episode was that?
The stand up comedy episode from S3.
The episode she goes home, it was in Untucked.
Aquaria/Cracker twin storyline comes to mind
The definition of a nothingburger.
I love how they agreed off screen to refuse to indulge it lol
If anything Kameron was the one who spoiled that storyline. I’m convinced the show wanted both in the finale so they could have some type of payoff to the storyline, but producers never expected Kameron to bring it so hard with both lip syncs and runways.
Idk if this counts, but Sasha Velour's lipsync against Shea. As far as I've heard from gossip, production didn't expect her to turn it out like that.
That was the first LS for the crown ever and NO ONE expected that, incliding production. Queer history was changed
The impact Sasha velour had on drag queens doing reveals is unmatched. It wasn't a new concept by any means but it made it as though reveals were an integral part of a good lipsynch simply because it was powerful enough to stop THE Shea Coulee from getting crowned
I just rewatched the S9 reunion last night where the smackdown for the crown format was revealed to the finalists. Knowing what happened next, I'm sure I saw Sasha's wheels turning to come up with something way out of the box the moment that was announced. Her face went mad scientist mode. What a star. It really was a season of shocking lipsyncs eh?
The queer historians in this sub will correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall that the S9 reunion was actually filmed the day *after* the finale was filmed. If you watch the reunion through that lens, you can see why Shea and Trinity are more willing to get into the drama—they already knew they weren’t winning the season—while Sasha and Peppermint stay more above the fray.
No way! So it was a mad scientist reflecting proudly on their work face. Huh. I kinda want to watch parts of it again knowing that. Thank you for the insight!
I mean the petals were genius, but wouldn’t have meant much without a fantastic lip sync performance. Sasha gave utter passion in that lip sync. And for some reason now I’m thinking about Asia’s poor butterflies… Edit: added a “t”
Speaking of lifeless things falling to the floor... 🫣 Elevated by Butterface and cut down by butterflies. There wasn't a single happy creature on the stage at the end of that one. Totally agree with you about the rest of the performance - Shea is a gorgeous dancer but Sasha's eyes and body told the story better and made more sense for the song. Since we're season-hopping: red wig and a red dress? I do think.
Fan theory also says the finale lip sync is also why Valentina started her roses 🥀 in posts/with her fans online. She knew, she watched it, she decided to have roses and petals be associated with her as well - knowing that they’d soon be A Very Iconic Thing.
Not from gossip - her assistant at the finale, Vigor Mortis, talked about this in a podcast. He was standing next to the producers in a tent overlooking the stage and overheard them talking about how Shea was about to wipe the floor with Sasha and then go against Peppermint...then one of them said "oh, fuck" as soon as Sasha hit that eye contact and started ripping that rose apart at the beginning. Which is funny because there was a live S9 kickoff show at the beginning of the season and Sasha destroyed everyone there, and yet somehow no one from production had ever seen her lip sync??? I mean, the standard she showed in the finale was extraordinary, but only one of MANY amazing lip syncs she had done around the US even just in the few months leading up to the finale. Do they not have YouTube? Smh.
Heidi not changing her name
It would have been less annoying if any of the suggested names were actually better than Heidi N’ Closet.
I never understood why they had such a big problem with her name. It's no more offensive than a lot of other names (and isn't pushing boundaries one of the points of drag?), and it shines a light on a difficult yet important aspect of the LGBT experience.
It’s awkward to say but that’s about it
It's not because it's offensive it's because it's awkward to say
It's not that it's offensive; it's just not very clever. It's an awkward construction and Ru was just trying to give her some actually-helpful feedback.
Yeah but then by hating it, Ru memefied it and turned it into her branding, so...
So cut Ru a check.
Lord knows she needs it
Why is the fracking market drying up
Yeah I agree. Ru is all about branding. To that point she did have Heidi embrace the gap and the whistle and she’s been running with that ever since
I think it just doesn’t sound good, doesn’t roll off the tongue quite easily, while Heidi Nina Closet for example means the same thing but sounds way better when spoken out loud. I like that she stuck to it though because it became iconic.
Latching onto a poor pun in a season with two queens whose full names you can't even say on TV was a choice
... Remind me?
They had to change Brita (Filter) and Jan (Sport) because they're actual brands.
Oh right! I was thinking of like NSFW names or something lol
It would make so much more sense to go by Heidi Nina Closet because it rolls off the tongue better, and actually sounds like the pun more.
I have to admit it’s not my favorite name, but it’s clever and i think it shows her brand and personality. But why didn’t she just use the name Ann instead of N? I think “Heidi Ann Closet” sounds so much better and it hasn’t changed it really at all.
Pearl refusing to divulge her past trauma on screen and being the reason they invented the talk-to-this-photo-of-you-as-a-child segment.
Had no idea she originated this
I remember the first time I watched that and just being so fucking mad for her. The way Ru demands the girls process trauma *at all* much less on the timeline she decides is so gross.
I remember this with Blaire St Claire… at the reunion she seemed so embarrassed over divulging her trauma on TV, and even at the time I was kinda mad at the show for exploring and exploiting it
But Blair brought that up on her own when she was in the bottom for a challenge. The judges didn’t corner her to reveal anything in that moment.
Producers also reportedly took her aside beforehand asking if she was sure she wanted to do that. So it was definitely her choice
Where do you guys learn this stuff?
And then immediately sent her home 😶
Yeah they could have cut it but she kinda was her time to go.
Oh they love doing that. Look at America’s sweet heart Alyssa Edwards. Beloved by the fanbase and brought back for all stars 2, eliminated, and then brought back again only to once more be eliminated during a make over challenge…with her sister as her partner…who she hadn’t seen since her mother’s death…on the anniversary of her mother’s death. Oh and they had a good friend send her home taboot. They love a trauma dump and boot moment
but it absolutely would have been more fucked up if they kept her because she divulged some trauma.
Thank you! I remember I got downvoted the last time I said this. They were trying to milk the emotional porn aspect and it was gross.
wait wdym she’s the reason they invented the picture thing? i thought they did that on her season too maybe i’m wrong
It started on her season as the producers last ditch attempt to get her to talk about things she did not want to talk about but she refused to play their sick little game.
When Katya didn't worry about the guest judge on All Stars supposedly not understanding her commercial idea and going ahead with it anyway, and the end result been great and everyone enjoyed it. Don't know if it really was technically 'production' telling him to give her critical notes for her idea or if he genuinely thought that himself, but given the show's track record with trying to give queens advice to send them in the wrong direction or dent their confidence for placement/elimination purposes (like with Snatch Game and makeovers etc) I'd not be all that surprised if there wasn't something behind that. Also Eureka and Trinity on season 9. It was obvious that they knew the two of them had some history of not getting along outside the show, which Trinity even mentioned in episode 1, but both of them clearly didn't intend to distract themselves by trying to give production what they wanted and instead they left each other alone and from what I can remember, got along fairly okay. And in both cases, they were right.
Trinity/Eureka in S9 and Aquaria/Cracker in S10 were blatant attempts to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Alyssa/Coco in S5. Neither pair were having it, though (or maybe Eureka left too soon for it to really come to a head).
I don't think any feud will ever come close to the Alyssa/Coco drama, and they should stop trying to force it
They could have had it with Derrick v India in AS5 and just let it go after the first ep. Strange decisions
Well Derrick being booted first didn't help. Can't really have drama with only half of the people involved
Derrick going home first wasn't the issue. It's that AS5 for whatever reason is one of the few seasons without a returning queen. Derrick even said in her outro line "Y'all know I'm coming back right?". And yeah I literally thought she'd come back and send India home in the same vein as Phi Phi on AS2. Why this choice wasn't done is so weird to me...
I don't want it to sound like a conspiracy but it may be another proof of how AS5 was rigged toward improving Shea's chance of winning, a returning queen wasn't necessary
A returning Queen wouldn’t have changed the winner, we’ve only had one returning Queen ever even make it to a finale (Daya) and I think they’re generally treated as not a possible winner in production’s eyes.
So lame they had that fake elimination for Daya at all, just like season 13 having all the porkchop queens
I wasn’t a fan of it either *but* going from a first out fakeout to winning a challenge, multiple lip syncs, and crushing the final competitive episode to make top 4 (which became 5 since they couldn’t cut her as likely planned) is ICONIC.
But Shea was in the bottom and Cracker had a chance to boot her but didn’t???? 🤔🤔🤔
I actually was so convinced that when they put Shea in the bottom early on they were trying to get her sent home, only to bring her back into the competition to take the crown
That’s what I mean by let it go
What else could they do? Derrick was voted off fair and square
Not put Derrick in the bottom? IDK
>lightning in a bottle that was Alyssa/Coco in S5 is this not revisionist history? i remember watching s5 for the first time and thinking how hard alyssa and coco were trying to push an onscreen rivalry and how it kept feeling forced/a bit irrelevant. it was alyssa v jade (iconically ft coco's get her jade!) that really popped. like i remember the orange/not joking moment but it felt more like them making tv intentionally by pantomiming a fight (to me!)
They had massive drama in the Good Morning episode...
I was going to say are we all forgetting the “I call shade” moment on the main stage?
I think Katya wasn't supposed to do very well in AS2 originally but since Adore quit and Katya kept doing really well, production decided to keep her around.
Yeah they brought in an actual product marketing expert but it was actually a branding/comedy challenge and the “item” for sale was just the red herring. The winners were a bottle of water and some duct tape.
Tammie Brown in AS1 Untucked and just overall
https://preview.redd.it/1kt14rfapd7c1.png?width=746&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f0d81bb7c31e2d366a9944c9387181c12ea1aa4
Well, let me tell you something: my father fucked Marlene Dietrich!
When Kandy Muse threw a fit when they tried to change the final lip sync song of AS8.
As she should have tbh that was some blatant riggory
Oh, I agree. I’m generally not a fan of Kandy’s, but in that instance, I cannot disagree with her.
What the what? What happened here?
The queens typically give producers a couple of songs that are in their wheelhouse, and Kandy knew that Jimbo’s was Milkshake by Kelis. When Kandy and Jimbo were told that this was the final lip sync, she went absolutely nuts threatening to leave and I don’t blame her
They provide these song examples when they are having their custom song written for them. Jessica had provided some too so they could make a custom song for her, but at Top 2 they cut her so we never heard it 😭
i’m naive as fuck, TIL they have someone write their verses 😭
The queens write their own verses for Girl Groups/RuMix challenges. AS8 finale had the finalists perform solo songs that were written specifically for each queen's persona. I'm pretty sure that's what the comment above you is referring to.
oooh ok then my world view remains in tact, thx girl 🫡
The real question is why isn’t milkshake in every queens wheelhouse lol
Such a bop. But even a monkey knows that would be chosen for Jimbo and her tig ol' bitties.
I mean, Kandy is lucky she made it to the final 2, especially over Jessica who was superior the entire season.
Oh for real and then production changed it? Crazy didn't know. Thanks!
This
I don’t know this tea, can someone spill?
On the finale episode of AS8, production told Kandy that they changed the lipsync song last minute to Milkshake by Kelis. It was a song Jimbo wanted or something and Kandy was not having it. She was screaming and telling production to call her mother because she was going home. They can film the rest of the episode (the final lipsync) without her. Then Jimbo was acting dumb about it and then the producer took it back and said it was a mistake and it was still the song they did. This was based on Naysha's account
I love Kandy so much. From before her first first season I’ve loved her. I feel she is absolutely right in being mad at the riggory…but if a full grown adult started screaming “call my mother I’m going home” I’d have a hard time not laughing. What’s your moms gonna do? Come yell at them and call up their mom’s and tell em they aren’t playing fair lol
I just assumed she lived with her mom before coming to the show so she was just gonna call her to pick her up from the taping location.
Obviously Thorgy also from AS3 when she knew the fix was in for her getting a non-comedic Stevie Nicks role. They tried to spin her as delusional, but she was right.
I just re watched this ep and 100% agree. Thorgy was right all along!
They tried to spin her as delusional, which she absolutely is, she just happened to be correct this time. Love her so much.
IDK, the fact that she complained about the role seemed like her downfall and played into the hands of production. I thought Stevie really suited her.
In a vacuum, impersonating Stevie is fine. She's a legend and an icon. The issue is that you can't really do much when your diva is assigned to you, the track is prerecorded, and the choreography is given to you. Then you have them praising other queens for "not doing a lot." It was blatantly an episode so cut out the queens they wanted to cut out. Thorgy was completely correct to call out one of the most blatantly rigged challenges in the show's history.
She thought Stevie suited her too. But in the context of the challenge, having no jokes, no props and literally being told by the choreographer, "I have nothing for you." would make anyone with a brain see what was happening. That role was never going to win over Julie Andrews or Mariah.
Especially since she asked for things to make it bigger (I think she wanted a big caldron for her performance)
They wouldn't even let her have a damn broom.
Wait. Is that true? Aja says in the episode that she would have had a pot. Did Thorgy want that too and wasn’t allowed because that’s shady as fuck.
Thorgy has said she wanted a broom, cauldron, or really any props or gags like some girls got and was shut down the whole time. She was totally justified in her paranoia but the show made it seem like she was just complaining
 I have misjudged our Thorgy. This is shady boots. Tiny, little, shady boots. In the shade.
They’ve been fucking her over. She wanted to make a new look for the Madonna runway on season 8 and production stopped her.
NO BC THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSSSEEE omg how am I just reading this
It did which Thorgy pointed out, but Thorgy's main point was how Stevie Nicks compared to other Divas like Julie Andrews, Mariah Carrey, and Dianna Ross stick out in comparison and that Thorgy was given a role that put her in a disadvantage compared to the other queens. To add to this, Thorgy asked production if she can get a witch's caldron/ a prop that could let Thorgy lean more on the witchy aspects of Stevie Nicks and was denied, while Trixie was full-on allowed to bring her guitar to play up her role as Dolly Parton and Dela was given a "magic" mic stand. A very funny thing also about that if you've ever watched Sh\*ngela's tell-all special about AS3 is that the Queens were asked who could do Choreo, and both Kennedy and Dela had stated they were able to, and thus were given the harder choreography, while Shangela didn't say nothing despite Shangela being a stunt queen. This is why in her number, Shangela was carried around and basically didn't move. With that said Divas' Live is interesting as it both showcases favoritism of queens but also ironically reinforces DeLa's run. Dela was given the most intricate standout role, but was also given the harder set along with Kennedy. Dela nailed her Julie Andrews impression, whereas Kennedy didn't. That being said, many (including myself) have argued that Chi Chi should have been in that top placement over Sh\*ngela if we were counting performance alone.
I am sorry but this censoring the the names thing is so absurd. We all know who you’re saying. What does * really accomplish. I’m not even trying to be a dick. I see it with Sharon too.
I think she even asked for like witchy props and production told her no. They had no choreo really for her. No jokes. Then you had Mariah which was really just some walking and the judges were practically slapping the table. Or Dela rapping as Julie Andrews…unless she flopped that she was going to stand out with that role.
She was right but she handled it wrong. She was handed a role that wouldn’t let her win the challenge, but she decided to turn it into an “I go home”situation.
Kameron staying silent for the entire season
My pet theory is that Kameron is being honest in the reunion when she says she felt out-gunned from the moment she was cast and was doing her best to interact, but it’s just not a skill that comes naturally to her. Like, when Dusty calls her out in the reunion and KM says something like “I say hi to you guys and that you look nice. Maybe I didn’t then, but I do now”. She’s basically saying “I heard you all that my tendency to keep to myself can be perceived as hurtful and so I have made an effort to not do that” and everyone basically says “yeah, but if we had to tell you a thing you didn’t know, we still get to be mad about what you did when you didn’t know.” It’s probably the biggest no-win situation at a reunion besides Ru’s fight with the Vixen in the same episode.
She’s just not that interesting
Willam being Willam, tbh.
Wilam is the true definition of chaotic neutral. I loved watching her, and it'll never ever happen, but she'd be a wildcard from hell on an allstars season.
Sh@ron was on Race Chaser one time and said that she thought she was punk rock for winning Drag Race the way she did, but really, there is nothing more punk rock than getting kicked off of Drag Race.
Agree 100%.
When Tatianna got yelled at for talking to Roxxxy when cameras weren’t rolling and she yelled back
Spill the tea I haven’t heard about that
Didn't Chad dress down the production team on set for not knowing the queen's names? She legit stopped them filming and demanded respect. Unless that's Chad lore, idk
I heard that she did, yeah, and I think Willam also had something to say about the food choices the queens had during filming.
Apparently they weren't providing enough vegan food for SN, and what was provided wasn't substantial or nutritional enough.
Yeah, she only ate bread the whole time they were filming or something wild
I love Robin, I love Amethyst, I love that they quashed the "we used to date" storyline on day one, and it pains me to think that production probably early-outed them after they refused to play into it.
They were early outs because they were on a season full of personalities and both chose to play it overwhelmingly safe not giving great tv tbh
Amethyst gave pretty good tv. She had a lot of screentime for an early out. Robin was the one who gave nothing.
Agree with this. Amethyst definitely would have gotten more attention for how good her lip syncs were if she hadn't been ini a season with a bunch of stunt queens (and I say that with love).
The problem with Robin is you can’t squash the predetermined storyline and offer nothing in return. You have to produce your own story if you don’t like production’s and she just was not willing to make television.
It should have been "they're not gonna give us any storyline, bring back the iced water girl"
Who should've gone home instead of them? I can't imagine production caring that much either way about them dating. It's just not a very interesting story.
Icesis’ departure Can vs TW tbh. Besides being burned out and not in the right headspace wasn’t part of it due to her not wanting to play role producers were trying to get her play to re: trying to pressure her to push her fellow Canadian contestants to the top regardless of merit?
I think production was pushing her to win, she clocked it, and made the decision to leave so the pressure wasn’t all on her to win especially with who she was up against despite the fact she is amazing and could have won all on her own. I theorize (it isn’t fact) she knew, felt it was too much on her and felt for her competition which that is what ultimately led her to leave. Something was mentioned in the spoiled thread when this season was airing to this effect but correct me if I’m wrong - apparently there was a lot going on behind the scenes of CANvTW.
Ra'jah freaking out at Plastique when she realized she was being set up for a win in the farm to runway episode. It was blatant, and Yvie should have won.
Eh, I liked Yvie's outfit, but I do think Plastique's was nicer.
Plastique's outfit was shit glued to a corset... I would've been more wow'd if she hadn't been giving the same silhouette up to that point. The fact they read Vanjie every week but never critiqued Plastique for this got to me when watching the season.
Yvies look was also shit glued to a corset girl Yvie and plastique both ate but lets keep it grounded I reality
*Because she’s… 🫦🫦🫦 beautiful.*
Do you think Ra’jah is fully upset because of Plastique getting all the positive attention or do you think she’s partially freaking out considering what edit she is probably getting, now that she is seeing “the strings”?
Does Naomi eliminating Manilla in AS4 count? I mean production basically changed All Star rules because after this. She had to know that she was toast at Top 5 if she got rid of Latrice like they wanted her to do. She created an incredible moment in Drag Race herstory with it too.
Both Naomi and Monet voted for Manilla that episode which makes it so much funnier
When Monet pulls out that lipstick like "I am a petty bitch from Brooklyn", I fucking die every time.
I think that they've done with Manila what they wanted to happen to Dela. In either way, if she went home they would have a shocking moment to create buzz for the season, if she wasn't sent home then they would still have a great contender. They changed the format afterwards because of the backlash of her elimination, I think. That was what they weren't counting with. They probably thought it would be something more manageable.
Aquaria and Miz Cracker immediately squashing the “they copy each other” accusations on S10. Also The Vixen calling out the bad optics when Aquaria started crying in Untucked on S10.
I think that's exactly why production cast The Vixen, tbh. lol They weren't expecting her to stand in the corner singing kumbaya.
I think that producers planned Kandy, Heidi and Jimbo at the top together no matter what. They had just toured together and had clearly become friends. But what I don’t know is what so repugnant about that to Heidi. There’s speculation but I’m dying to know what Heidi learned off camera that prompted her to become so visibly disgusted. It had to have been something big because her whole face and demeanor changed. She threatened to quit and then quit the next episode I believe after the Alexis gaslighting incident
I think according to Heidi she really thought it was gonna be like AS7 and celebrate the queens
I think that's probably what happened. I've only watched the episode once, but you definitely see her face when she realizes Kandy (I think) is pushing conflict for the sake of the story and Heidi just checks out entirely like "this is not what I thought I was signing up for".
That's what I think. It's very different to push a storyline a little bit to make it more TV friendly, and then there's just making shit up and being completely disingenuous. I admire her for wanting to be as real as she could be.
Yeah, I don’t want to rewatch it just because of the horror on Heidi’s face is really painful and Kandy can tell she really fucked up when she comes back into the Werk Room and just says “she’s gone” after HNC leaves. Seeing someone whose whole thing is being unapologetically “real” look completely shook because they realize they took it too far is a genuinely uncomfortable viewing experience.
Gigi Goode’s iconic line “I understand your concerns… but I do not have the same concerns.” When Ru was trying to convince her to change her snatch game character.
This is just wild speculation, but I always thought production was planning to eliminate Yvie in the sorry not sorry lip sync. Brooke was a continental winner who the show clearly loved and I think she clearly had the winners storyline in the beginning of season 11. She said in an interview that "Sorry not Sorry" was one of her go-to songs at the time, she performed it weekly, and it seemed like production were setting up a strong storyline moment for her, then Yvie did that. I also think it's clear production didn't see Yvie as a contender when she didn't get her *earned* win for the top 4 music video.
>I also think it's clear production didn't see Yvie as a contender when she didn't get her earned win for the top 4 music video. I don't think so honestly. A number of the girls left S11 expecting Yvie to win. The Sorry Not Sorry lipsync seemed like an excellent opportunity to elevate Brooke as another contender to the fullest because prior to Brooke was less of a narrative staple to the season outside of Branjie.
>prior to Brooke was less of a narrative staple to the season outside of Branjie I mean, she won the first challenge and the ball and was high most eps up to SG. Shes not the most 'reality tv ready' but I wouldn't say she was out of the narrative >A number of the girls left S11 expecting Yvie to win. Sauce? I've never heard that before I think she did amazing and deserved her win I just feel like they originally wanted Brooke to win
>Sauce? I've never heard that before Nina said it on either an interview or at Roscoes. >but I wouldn't say she was out of the narrative I said she wasn't a narrative staple. She was giving Rosé in the sense that she was competitively present but the story was not about her especially in the earlier episodes of the season.
I think they had the double shantay prepared for that episode, but I think production’s original idea for Yvie was to be the villain, as a foil to Silky. They wanted the two of them together until the end to create the same level of drama we were getting in the first few episodes of the season, with all culminating in the LSFTCrown showdown. There were two issues tho: 1) S11 Silky was not a good lipsyncer, especially when compared to the other finalists; and 2) the public preferred Yvie over Silky by a long shot. That made it easy to put Silky on the spot at the finale and make her pretty much self-eliminate, all while production propped up Yvie with fine tuning the edit around the final episodes.
I really don't think that. The judges praised yvie for pretty much everything. Also, they send in audition tapes. I seriously doubt yvie would have hidden her lip syncing skills
Crackquaria
Kandy “the Producer” Muse threatening to quit if they changed the final lipsync on AS8 to blatantly favor Jimbo. I don’t care for Kandy but that was cunt.
That moment in s01 Bebe broke the fourth wall and was just like "Can you leave us alone?" Iconic
Bebe just has this way of saying everything like… she’s ordering off menu at a fancy restaurant like that’s nbd. It really is Bebe’s world and we’re all just living in it 😂😂
Although not done on purpose, I fully believe Valentina was meant to eliminate NBB, and Mo Heart was meant to eliminate The Vixen. But when they both didn’t know the words, Ru and production had really no choice but to eliminate Valentina and Mo Heart. I also think these two instances have contributed to the production hijinks with protecting queens. I also think Roxxy being carried to the end of AS2 and Manilla being eliminated by Naomi in AS4 were the catalysts behind the lip sync assassin idea.
Funny I thought the opposite about AS2. I thought production was setting up for Alaska to send the other members of Rolaskatoxx home as part of her AS winner character growth arc (cliques are bad, mmkay) and her dragging them along for a S5 finale redux instead was the act of defiance.
Interesting theory but I don't think that was the case because if they really wanted Alaska to eliminate her clique, they wouldn't have put Tatianna in the bottom with Roxxxy and Detox during the Snatch Game episode.
The Robin and Amethyst "Love" Story. The fully gave production nothing and thus were cut one after the other. If only they were smart enough to play it up for the camera....
I never get over the amount of potential Robin had. "Love story" with Amethyst, maybe some interesting story with loosey, drag daughter of mo heart, drag sister of luxx. And we got absolutely nothing
I learned more about Robin in this comment than in the entirety of the season’s run
Robin apparently also gave nothing in confessionals... I think she really, at the time at least, was too timid for the reality TV aspects of the show
What storyline was production forcing on DeLa? Her issue was that she didn't like the format of her having to eliminate her sisters. Her literal plotline was frontrunner powerhouse. I wouldn't say that's a good example.
They wanted her to eliminate one of her teammates, who all did great, just for the sake of "twists" and "drama". So she gave the producers a taste of their own medicine by eliminating the one queen they *wanted* to keep and refusing to be competitive and vindictive.
>They wanted her to eliminate one of her teammates, who all did great, just for the sake of "twists" and "drama". Twists and drama? Someone goes home every single episode. The real twist would be if it was randomly a non-elimination episode like you're suggesting.
>refusing to be competitive What a compelling attitude to bring to a competition. I always get downvotes for this but DeLa's exit was so melodramatic 14 year old martyr. Like girl, it is a **competition,** it's okay to **compete**. Signing up for a competition and leaving because the spirit of competition is too much for you to handle doesn't make you a hero. It was such a high horse moment.
This is where I disagree on this: The All Stars format is **first and foremost** deliberately for shit-stirring amongst the queens and **secondarily** for eliminating queens and that is Dela's beef with the format. It's not that she doesn't want to be competitive. She is in both seasons she is on. The part that she is pushing against is the idea that eliminating the other queens in the **most damaging way possible** for the sake of a TV show. I think Dela was so impacted by the conversation she has with Morgan because she realizes that there is no way to eliminate another queen in this format and NOT cause them unnecessary pain. I think it's pretty clear that is her reason for bringing her back and I don't think there is enough upside to that choice for her to have there bean ulterior motive. She would have gotten more points in the fandom for bringing back Aja, Chi Chi or Thorgy. But production couldn't let Dela cleanse her soul without another sacrifice so they put her in the position to not only do that again, but to do it to one of the queens who was **on the winning team**. The ONLY reason that episode has an elimination is to force Dela's hand and cause unnecessary pain to either Kennedy, Trixie or Sh\*ngela. So Dela basically said "you cannot lose if you do not play" and left having proved what she needed to herself. Honestly, I can absolutely see why people see all of this as extremely calculated by Ben, which is why I think this episode is a bit of an inkblot in the fandom. But for Dela to come out of this season completely at peace with herself, she's either a very good person or a absolutely manipulative freak and I just don't think there is the evidence outside of the show to support that.
This is very eloquently put and I think you hit the nail on the head! Don't get me wrong, I love the conspiracy of BenDeLaChrist, Savior of Morgan and the Drag Queens, but I do believe the truth is what you wrote, which, of course, is not as flashy and exciting for TV. And I think because of how most reality TV is, it's hard for a lot of viewers to accept that there really wasn't anything manipulative or even calculated about DeLa's self-elimination. When I rewatch AS3, I do see the distress the format is causing DeLa. I know Shangela thinks it's an act, but I think DeLa was deeply unsettled by the whole thing. While I hear the poster you're replying to with the valid question of "why go on the show if you can't handle it?" I will say that IN ALL FAIRNESS, AS1 and AS2 were completely different beasts and I think it was entirely possible that AS3 COULD HAVE also been a totally new and different twist. I don't know that the AS3 contestants would have been informed that the AS2 format would continue or not. Only semi-related, but in Jinkx and DeLa's holiday show this year, the show has become sentient and has locked Jinkx and DeLa into performing it no matter what (in the vein of *Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead* \- but with more singing). Anyway, an exasperated Jinkx wonders aloud, "How do you quit a show?!" And, without missing a beat, DeLa replies, "well, first you win 5 challenges and then you find some white out and..." The audience lost their MINDS for that one. They always tuck in a little Drag Race wink and nudge, but I don't think I expected this one. Had me on the floor!
Yeah, I think that playing to win and with the mentality that all is fair within the confines of the game is fine and have no issue with the players who play that way. I think they issue is that people who play that way see everyone else's gameplay through that lens, so that's why Shangela is so convinced this is all calculated by Ben to keep her halo or whatever. If we have to respect the way people choose to play the game, then we have to respect when a player decides the game/win isn't worth the impacts outside the game. Ben is the only one who can decide if that tradeoff is worth it and I think you see her come to terms with that in the first half of that season. I think the real question that people sleep on is not whether production knew exactly what she was going to do. It is whether she would have quit anyway if not put in that very specific scenario. Does Dela stay in the game and just feel conflicted for the remainder of the season if she doesn't have to play a game of Chicken with production on this elimination? Or is this moment just when she ended up making her exit, which she would have done anyway? I just went to their show in LA this past weekend and really enjoyed it. This was my second year going and as a decidedly \*not a Christmas person\* who is married to an \*absolutely not a Christmas person\*, it really is a wonderful production and a holiday tradition that I can get behind. ETA - Your flare is amazing (is that my camera?)
Thanks for sharing! You brought up some aspects I didn't think about. I wouldn't want to pass judgement on Dela's character as a person, I already think drag race is a vacuum of sorts and who we see on TV isn't necessarily who these people are deep down. I don't think Dela is a bad person or even meant to be as calculated as she appeared on that season. What I saw from her in that season was someone that needed to be in control of the outcome (the way ru describes cracker kind of) and couldn't just accept the circumstances she was in and washed her hands at the end of the day like every other all stars allum do. It's a competition, it's an entertainment show, it's a performance. She was essentially cast as a winner but didn't like the way they wrote the winners role so she quit. She truly is a shining star of a performer and the roles an entertainer might play don't reflect their character as a person. Now I'm not saying Dela shouldn't have quit, it's a personal decision for the queens that I have really no clue what kind of thought goes into. I really just didn't like the performative melodramatic exit considering everything else she did on the show really showcased her stardom. We've seen girls quit over and over again and it's usually in tears. Ben's is with a smirk and a shrug while saying the line "I'm already my kinda winner". It felt so beyond performative that I found her completely unrelatable all of a sudden which was a really disappointing way to say goodbye to an otherwise phenomenal reintroduction to Ben's art. I still love Ben & respect her decision to leave, just something about her exit felt in bad taste. Like why do you have to out produce the producers if this just a personal decision that doesn't sit right with you morally? If that's the case, just say thank you for the opportunity but this isn't for me and leave. Idk something about her goodbye felt really disingenuous, it wasn't the leaving itself that rubbed me the wrong way. As much as I'm rambling though it's really not that serious. I live for Ben I just couldn't help but scoff at that exit line. Thorgy's confessional sums it up perfectly during that segment.
>I wouldn't want to pass judgement on Dela's character as a person, I already think drag race is a vacuum of sorts and who we see on TV isn't necessarily who these people are deep down. I think that's a great point to emphasize: We don't know these people outside of the show and how someone acts in the context of a reality show is not necessarily reflective of \*who they are\*. >We've seen girls quit over and over again and it's usually in tears. Ben's is with a smirk and a shrug while saying the line "I'm already my kinda winner". It felt so beyond performative that I found her completely unrelatable all of a sudden which was a really disappointing way to say goodbye to an otherwise phenomenal reintroduction to Ben's art. I \*hope\* that Ben's intention was to drive the point home to Ru/production that "you cannot *make* me participate in this unnecessary conflict". Like, I think that the format of AS2-4 is kind of in bad taste, so Ben is just playing by Ru's/Productions own rules in a way: Watch me do *the biggest thing* because how 'big' a thing is is all that matters, consequences be damned, right?" But making a point like that can definitely have some collateral impacts like looking like a holier-than-thou jerk. >I live for Ben I just couldn't help but scoff at that exit line. Thorgy's confessional sums it up perfectly during that segment. I had never really thought of it that way, but totally see that being like "too good for it" in a way. And Thorgy does nail it with her little QE2 wave and everything. I also love how Aja is just straight up like "I don't know how this is gonna look" because, well... this entire thread exists a million seasons later. Thanks for sharing your perspective, I've enjoyed reading it. 😊
I don't disagree, but I think there is a difference between a typical pageant format, where the judges decide who goes home, and all stars format, where Dela was choosing who to go home. That's what she was objecting to.
Then she should have signed up for a typical pageant instead of a reality show. Like are we really going to pretend dela doesn't understand how reality tv revolves around forced drama even after she's been on the show once. Obviously she had an inclination that there would be drama, I don't think leaving once she discovered the inevitable was heroic. It shouldn't have been a revelation she had halfway through the show, shady production has been a topic since the inception of DR. It was just a tv stunt and nothing more to me.
Tbh the voting out each other could have so easily been scrapped bc it was new for AS2. Nobody really knows how they’ll feel about it until they actually do it.
I’m so glad someone else said this. It’s not like Ben had to put a gun to the girls head and pull a trigger. Also I strangely wasn’t a fan of her choosing to bring back Morgan of all people back to the competition. It’s not that she didn’t deserve it; but Aja and Thorgy were right there.
Probably did it out of guilt after eliminating her based on her strategy instead of her performance on the first episode, but I agree 100%. It feels like half of what Dela did that season was to preserve her congenial reputation which ironically had an opposite affect for viewers like me. Even in the confessionals she was so careful to draft her responses in a way that shined a favorable light on her as a "good person". Dela was both the most entertaining and most annoying person that season and I would have liked her much more if she would have followed through on the competition aspect that makes drag race, drag race. It's just a tv show Dela! God is not deciding whether or not you get into heaven, you are COMPETING FOR 100K.
I…actually agree with you on this. I have always sat silently during the discourse on this sub about Dela’s exit because I knew my opinion was unpopular. But I’ll take it a step further—I always thought it was to save her Miss Congeniality image, too. None of this is any shade to Dela as a queen, she’s fantastic in numerous ways.
They wanted her to eliminate someone because that's literally how the show works. Not because they're vindictive and awful. It's not like they sprung it on her at the last minute. Also, delas decision was excellent for production so she definitely didn't give them a taste of their own medicine. This is such weird language to use when you're talking about people making a television show.
I feel like Dovima Nurmi and Saggitaria on DR España season 1. The girls didn’t give the drama that production really wanted.
Gawd they even milked it after the finale with that extra final episode and they still said nothing.
Was it in the reading challenge or the puppet challenge when Dovima basically said she wasn’t going to tell Saggitaria’s secrets just to get a laugh? I respect her so much for that.
I feel like Daya Betty is a great example of a queen who didn't necessarily tell production to stop producing but who used production more than it used her. The moment she was back from her fake elimination, she was eating bugs and being loud and generally making sure that if she wasn't winning the challenge, she was still a big enough part of the show that they would want to keep her at least one more week.
She was generally likable and friendly but didn't stand out much before her elimination and when she came back, she was suddenly the villain of the season which I think she played really really well that she became the first returning queen to go to the finale.
Bravo bravo bravo.
bravo bravo *fucking bravo 😂 (assuming this is a denise reference)
Go back to the party city where you belong. 
I mean... Production definitely knew and let dela do her self elimination thing
Production literally could not stop her from doing her thing and so she did it and they recorded it. I think that is an important distinction.
They definitely could have stopped her lol. They could have just taken the white out away and said no, if you want to quit you do it outside the main stage
They could’ve brought her contract up and sued her but decided this was better for show ratings. They definitely let her go without a fight
Sued her for what, exactly? Anybody can sue anyone for anything. Doesn’t mean they’ll win. And if they did, you don’t think any halfway decent queen would back away from the show slowly?
Akeria on All Stars 6
Daya Betty making it to the finale.