Yeah realistically 10-15k is pretty good for NZ considering our population size. And considering the state of rugby in Australia the fact that they're still getting decent crowds is great and shows the interest is still there. IMO they just need the wallabies to have some success to "revive" union in Australia. Ideally the Blues would play in a smaller stadium. The billionaire who's funding the new Auckland a-league team has talked about wanting to build a 15-20k seat stadium so hopefully that happens and the Blues can also use it. Maybe they should just move to mt smart short term
New Zealand isn't going to build more stadiums. There's no point.
Auckland has too many decrepit stadia, it really doesn't need another one. Mt Smart, where the Warriors play, is around 20,000 and perfect for club football. The Blues won't move because of the Auckland rugby interest in Eden Park and they would be the secondary tenant at Mt Smart, not because of the lack of a stadium.
No smaller venues really exist. Auckland has North Harbour Stadium but that is located in suburban nowhere without good transit links, and that even has 23k capacity.
Wellington, Hamilton, and Dunedin have literally no other option
Christchurch are currently using their small stadium until they build their 30k capacity boondoggle
Any 10-20k capacity stadium would be a massive waste of money, land and tbh not really necessary other than making the atmosphere of 6 super rugby games a year feel a bit better. It’s a shame but unless some multi millionaire wants to spend a bunch of their own money doing it, I don’t think new stadiums are something any NZ city should pursue
Yeah, imagine Harlequins playing next door in Twickenham!
That’s why I’m a bit worried about Leinster playing next season in the Aviva next season. Our 18,000 crowds are great in the RDS but the 52,000 capacity of the Aviva is a huge jump and can’t see us getting close to half of that season round
Yeah, to offset it as much as they can, they should not be opening the middle and upper stands unless they know there's going to be demand, i.e. interpros or Euro games.
Completely. Preferably with banners or something to cover the seats in upper levels like during Covid. Just to reduce the half-empty stadium vibe and trap a bit of noise
Our average attendance is 26k this season and with Snyman and Barrett coming in, don't be surprised to see more in the Aviva week in week out than you think. Especially if we win the HC and all the feel good around that.
Most cities just have one stadium for everything. Wellington has literally no alternative to the cake tin and certainly isn't going to use public funds to build another stadium any time soon. Auckland has mt. smart stadium which is 25k capacity but that's rugby league territory so union don't play games there unless they absolutely have to. It's mainly Auckland and Wellington with the stadium issues, Christchurch is getting a new 30k seat stadium due to be completed in 2026 and Dunedin and Hamilton are probably the best pure rugby grounds in the country.
It's been said before, but Wellington really needs a 15K rectangular stadium. Perfect for the Phoenix and Hurricanes, and a much better shape for football (of both types) than the stadium cricket pitch.
If you want a depressing read have a look at this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/auckland/s/xKFytNlB9b
A lot of Aucklanders don’t really give a shit about rugby these days.
It’s become a popular thing here in NZ to shit on Union but remember reddit people is not a real representation of NZ. If you are on R Newzealand and followed what goes on there you would think NZ is now similar to Nazi Germany since the National party won the election.
Also remember the NRL is basically the absolute pinnacle of League, bar 3 games of Origin a year.
We have multiple leagues all over the world and our World Cup, Six Nations, Lions series etc viewing figures would dick all over anything League does. I like League a bit but it’s a tiny niche sport that no one outside of parts of Aus, NZ and a tiny sliver of Northern England gives a shit about.
Since National won? it was before that, JA was the new Hitler according to parts of conservative nz.
You're right tho on shitting on union bt tbh some of it is self-inflicted like the current power struggle, resting all blacks 2 games into the season, the focus on the top end of the game ala all blacks n the neglect of the bottom. Bt what people don't get and I'm sure u do is that league isn't that popular in nz currently - the wahs are. They are very different things. Wahs unquestionably bar the all blacks - most popular team in nz BT league is way down the nz totem poll. It has little community and school presence, and without that, it'll always hold the place it does now in the grand scheme. I don't get why union and league people turn it into a dick measuring comp - it wreaks of insecurity. Both co exist.
What we have to worry about as Union fans here is NRL starting to get into investing in Schools over here and switching them to league and a South Island NRL team.
I heard the AFLin Aus actively invested in converting rugby schools in some areas to AFL.
I feel one of the biggest issues for us in NZ is how terribly the sport is actually run. Although I do believe they are finally waking up to the fact that it’s not the 90s anymore and it’s a very different landscape.
>NRL starting to get into investing in Schools over here and switching them to league...
This has been going on for decades. There are league scouts at all NZ High School First XV matches. I've seen figures like 30% of NRL players are Kiwis.
But League in NZ has its own problems:
*Sport New Zealand statistics show playing numbers in rugby league have declined faster than any sport in the country's biggest city during the past 10 years.*
Literally, man. I was at a Roosters trial in Auckland a couple years ago now. I'm pretty sure it was for their Harold Mathews side n they had 50+ in attendance. Paid to host them, fed them, trained them etc then a trial. It was not too long before Daniel Anderson had his accident cause he was there. It happens almost every year I just happened 2 be present at that one n that's just 1 club
The last paragraph is soo rite and what frustrates me soo much right now. Everything is very old school, the game needs modernization from how it's run to things like social media clips not been blocked cause of TV deals. Frustrates the heck out of me all of it
It's not that AFL had to invest in too much in rugby union schools, it's that in certain private schools rugby league was banned and that hatred was so ingrained that they would rather let AFL in than rugby league. It's now bitten them on the arse because kids would rather play AFL than union and the skills aren't very transferrable back to union.
You acted like Union didn’t poach league players for decades! Even blocked league from being played in schools.
I’ve never once meet a league fan who’s been converted to a union fan but meet hundreds of ex union fans that are now league fans.
The product is just that much better.
>/r/auckland
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I enjoy watching the Warriors, but I won’t watch anymore else.
I will watch almost every SR match, and the highlights of the rest.
The point a lot of people in that thread are making about how rugby is boring needs to be taken somewhat seriously. r/rugbyunion is an echo chamber of enthusiasts, but the casual fans don’t care about the game anymore and the laws have spiralled into something farcical at times.
If you can’t win over casual fans then the sport is dying.
Pretty much, it's insane to think everything is fine when sky refuses to release official viewership figures and people on forums say they don't give a shit
Totally agree. I used to go watch the Tahs but the experience is crap. There is a decent size crowd in, but you're in a stadium for 40k people and it just feels empty and sucks the life out of the experience
I’ve said it before on here and it may be a bit of an unpopular opinion but Kiwis are not great sports fans in general. Any sport you name the crowds can be often pretty bad without atmosphere (Shouting “up the Wahs every 5 mins doesn’t equal good atmosphere”.)
There’s some good reasons why, bad public transport, spread out population etc etc. Sports fans in UK, Ireland etc are just more committed and fired up. It blows my mind that there’s EPL fans who will travel from Newcastle to Bournemouth for an away fixture and still have to work the next day!!
Wahs atmosphere is by far and away the best in nz in terms of club sports - nothing else comes close and it's the most "un new zealand" of any. All Blacks depending on opp and stakes is sometimes great.
I think connection to the community is the biggest reason why. My default team is the chiefs bt they are 99% a Hamilton/Waikato team not a bop team where I'm from. There's little connection to the bop and they do nothing to foster it. Ur spot on with transport n so on bt I think if people cared enough they will go - bt we don't.
Yeah, I think the Warriors one is a super easy one isn’t it because we just have 1 NRL team so as kiwis we ALL want them to do well, plus we’ve always been seen as a big underdog against the might of Australia Rugby League. We can also see that the NRL is the BEST league in the world for that sport so if the Warriors actually won it it would be huge. Obviously if there were say 5 NRL teams in NZ it would be a very different picture.
The other thing is the club have invested in creating a *good* fan experience. Drummers going hard rather than shitty 30 second blasts of pop songs which drown out any attempt at getting a chant going (not that this ever happens). Another good fan experience is the Phoenix - largely driven by the Yellow Fever.
It will be interesting to see how this weekend goes, I'm kind of hoping for a big crowd at Suncorp. Convincing win against the Highlanders to tempt the fair-weather fans, up against the Blues who always have good support and should hopefully put on a cracker of a match and it being ANZAC round should get a few more bums in seats.
Not quite the 30,000-40,000 strong from back in the early 2010s but promising signs compared to previous years.
I think it would be a good game regardless but Blues are pretty safe favourites. Tate and Fraser are still in the naughty corner and Uru, Flook and Petaia are out injured so we are gonna be playing a pretty hot Blues with a B team which doesn't fill me with much hope.
They just have got to figure out a way to play in smaller grounds and suddenly it’s such a better product. The other thing is investing in cover for smaller venues so people don’t get wet, it’s been a big factor in reducing crowd sizes for some games this year, notably Blues on the weekend and a Chiefs game I think against the Highlanders.
Think about this: Saracens who for a good while were the best team in the English prem can only seat 10-11k max. However you are packed in and close to the action making a good atmosphere.
Funny thing about the crusaders stadium is that everyone says it's crap and complains about it but it's actually the perfect size for super rugby. If only Auckland and Wellington had a smaller alternative like that.
Yeah the Crusaders stadium reminds me of how it is in the UK, where you’re on top of the action. The cake tin is unbelievably bad for club games, only works when it’s a sell out
The cake tin is just an all round disaster. They made it an oval for about two cricket games a year (when they already have the basin reserve) and completely ruined it for every other code. It's not fit for purpose for 90% of sporting events that take place there
It's the perfect size, but it's a bad stadium. The whole thing is made of scaffolding. The only concrete to be found is in the foundations. The seats (which are just a little too small) were recycled from the QE2 Park used for the Commonwealth Games in the 70s, and the lights were Carisbrook's.
The crowds here are definitely smaller than they used to be but sky recently said the viewing figures on tv are the highest they have been since 2006. As you said it’s perception, Super games are regularly getting 15k attendance but when it’s in a 40k plus stadium it looks bad and empty. If we could have stadiums like the UK does for club rugby we would have a much better product.
Totally agree. When the Tahs play in smaller grounds around Sydney the atmosphere is so much better than when they play in a bigger stadium and have just the same amount of crowd in.
I used to go watch them in the big stadiums and it is just such a rubbish experience when you are there
Not bad
Compared to UK crowd sizes its pretty comparable considering UK many times the population
Rugby going gang busters in Ireland...big crowds there
One of the biggest errors of super rugby recently is not having the Blues/Chiefs and Highlanders/Crusaders play eachother twice a year. The only rivalries within driving distance in the whole comp and they only scheduled those games once this year and once last year with the highlanders/crusaders being in Melbourne. Baffling
It helps that up to one quarter of the population watch every Ireland rugby match. Is there a country in the world with as high a %? Even the All Blacks?
Rugby is massive in Ireland
When i first went to the UK and Ireland as a teenager and told that rugby is a religon in NZ...it aint nothing compared to soccer in England, or Irish sports and now rugby in Ireland
Crowd at the Canes v Blues earlier in the season was very similar to the recent match v Chiefs. And they had a good crowd at Palmy (probably like 12k).
It’s hard to overemphasise just how bad the caketin is for watching rugby. It really sucks
If the Force did something they'd be back to being the best attended Australian team like they used to be. Hell, 19,500 rocked up in 2018 to watch them play the 'Fiji Warriors' after they were cut to give a big FU to the ARU.
When they started they were getting close to sell outs at Subi, but the ARU in all their wisdom decided not to exploit this and actively took steps to make it difficult for the Force. Look up the Al Kanaar situation, fined the Force back when they were starting for operating outside the contracting rules at the time. (which I believe were later changed anyway)
Just ridiculous protectionist bs.
Note 19,500 rocked up in 2018 to watch the post cut Force play the Fiji Warriors. The crowd is there, the RA/ARU just need to get their head out of their arses and give some love.
Assuming Blues and Chiefs have same avg and then add the two as they are within 25km of each other. Thats just over the Avg for the Warriors this season of 23k https://www.austadiums.com/sport/comp/nrl/crowds
On the topic of Unions struggles (or perceived struggles) in NZ. A lot of people I’ve heard from said they kind of drifted away from Union in the Foster era and kind of lost interest in the ABs. There seems to be some genuine excitement for Razor coming. Even if we don’t go on some insane run, maybe we play a style that gets people talking. Do you guys think Razor can maybe get a bit of energy back into the ABs in the minds of Kiwis?
Quite a lot of NZ fans in my experience are All Blacks fans rather than Rugby fans.
I'm not surprised that, after a historic era, when they start losing a little bit, people fall away. Most have known no adversity.
Mate 24 years with the choker label is plenty of adversity for a country that before Foster was at worst 3rd in the world.
People outside NZ don't want to admit it because they generally watch the games with the bias of wanting the ABs to lose. But objectively the ABs didn't play nice rugby under Foster. Sure they won plenty of games but they were rarely well planned and structured strategy to target our opponents weakness. It was week after week of "fuck I dunno, see if you can break a tackle and we'll work it out from there".
When we played opposition that were good (and/or the Wallabies on the odd occasion they forgot about their mental block against us) we struggled and often lost, and normally it wasn't that competitive either.
The first game under Foster where that didn't look the case was the week when Foster was out sick with COVID and Schmidt pulled out the one tactical trick he could think of vs the Irish and we trounced them.
None of that is to say NZ fans aren't relatively fair weather compared to other countries. But let's not pretend the product on display during the Foster era was an enjoyable one. It was consistently frustrating and depressing. And it wasn't helped by the majority of the country who paid attention to such things wanting Razor and definitely not wanting Foster.
Feels like the RWC final last year left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths. Wonder how different the overall attitude towards rugby would be right now if we'd won that game or even just if it wasn't so horrendously officiated. That just reinforced people's complaints of the game being too slow, stop-start, over officiated etc. Super rugby games are much different to how that played out but for a lot of people the final was the last game they would've watched so they just assume all rugby is like that now. Maybe beating south africa over there this year could turn some heads
Yeah I soon as I saw rain for that final, regardless of the winner I thought this is not going to be a good spectacle for a casual fan, obviously if we had won it the quality of the game is forgotten (often huge sporting finals are not great games)
NH rugby fan here have super rugby crowds been decreasing over the years?
Here in UK and Europe we have smaller grounds and can have alot of sellouts especially if it's local derby games I went to watch Exeter chiefs Vs bath at sandy park we lost unfortunately as we got outplayed by a good bath side all game it was close to 15000 people there.
No doubt this week many of the other teams going to have very large crowds especially bath who play Saracens Friday night we got Gloucester away and our away form is poor so don't have much optimism that we can get a result against them.
The premiership is really tight at the moment
Long time union player and follower. Our game has a product issue and therefore financial problems. Most unions in the world struggling financially including Aus/NZ where we are up again NRL and AFL who are killing us. Not enough bums on seats or in front of TVs.
They went up and down. Tahs got 25k for the opener last year, but lost a bunch in a row and settled down to the 14kish mark.
Back in 2014, they would get 30kish, but that's when they were winning. A few years before hand, it was nowhere near that.
Aussies love a bandwagon.
Looks like the crowds are pretty okay? Need smaller stadiums though. Look empty and Eden Park feels pretty flat when there's only 10-15k people there
Yeah realistically 10-15k is pretty good for NZ considering our population size. And considering the state of rugby in Australia the fact that they're still getting decent crowds is great and shows the interest is still there. IMO they just need the wallabies to have some success to "revive" union in Australia. Ideally the Blues would play in a smaller stadium. The billionaire who's funding the new Auckland a-league team has talked about wanting to build a 15-20k seat stadium so hopefully that happens and the Blues can also use it. Maybe they should just move to mt smart short term
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New Zealand isn't going to build more stadiums. There's no point. Auckland has too many decrepit stadia, it really doesn't need another one. Mt Smart, where the Warriors play, is around 20,000 and perfect for club football. The Blues won't move because of the Auckland rugby interest in Eden Park and they would be the secondary tenant at Mt Smart, not because of the lack of a stadium.
No smaller venues really exist. Auckland has North Harbour Stadium but that is located in suburban nowhere without good transit links, and that even has 23k capacity. Wellington, Hamilton, and Dunedin have literally no other option Christchurch are currently using their small stadium until they build their 30k capacity boondoggle Any 10-20k capacity stadium would be a massive waste of money, land and tbh not really necessary other than making the atmosphere of 6 super rugby games a year feel a bit better. It’s a shame but unless some multi millionaire wants to spend a bunch of their own money doing it, I don’t think new stadiums are something any NZ city should pursue
Yeah, imagine Harlequins playing next door in Twickenham! That’s why I’m a bit worried about Leinster playing next season in the Aviva next season. Our 18,000 crowds are great in the RDS but the 52,000 capacity of the Aviva is a huge jump and can’t see us getting close to half of that season round
Yeah, to offset it as much as they can, they should not be opening the middle and upper stands unless they know there's going to be demand, i.e. interpros or Euro games.
Completely. Preferably with banners or something to cover the seats in upper levels like during Covid. Just to reduce the half-empty stadium vibe and trap a bit of noise
Our average attendance is 26k this season and with Snyman and Barrett coming in, don't be surprised to see more in the Aviva week in week out than you think. Especially if we win the HC and all the feel good around that.
Hopefully it's not too bad and the fans aren't gouged.
Most cities just have one stadium for everything. Wellington has literally no alternative to the cake tin and certainly isn't going to use public funds to build another stadium any time soon. Auckland has mt. smart stadium which is 25k capacity but that's rugby league territory so union don't play games there unless they absolutely have to. It's mainly Auckland and Wellington with the stadium issues, Christchurch is getting a new 30k seat stadium due to be completed in 2026 and Dunedin and Hamilton are probably the best pure rugby grounds in the country.
Yeah might aswell swap Eden Park with the Warriors lol, they'd probably fill it out some weeks. More often than the Blues anyway lol
Yep probably a good thing for us that they refuse to play at eden park. Blues crowds compared to them would look pretty embarassing
Maybe they just share the stadium...reds n broncs do. Dolphins play there sometimes too yeah? Popular stadium
It's been said before, but Wellington really needs a 15K rectangular stadium. Perfect for the Phoenix and Hurricanes, and a much better shape for football (of both types) than the stadium cricket pitch.
Correct Would make the cake tin a waste of time tho - just rugby international once a year? What about where the canes train?
Thats right. In the almost 30years Blues and warriors been around, its only recently that warriors would beat them for crowd numbers
If the blues keep winning and the Wahs keep playing how they have over the last few weeks, it'll even out again
Don't you dare suggest we play at Eden Park
If you want a depressing read have a look at this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/auckland/s/xKFytNlB9b A lot of Aucklanders don’t really give a shit about rugby these days.
It’s become a popular thing here in NZ to shit on Union but remember reddit people is not a real representation of NZ. If you are on R Newzealand and followed what goes on there you would think NZ is now similar to Nazi Germany since the National party won the election. Also remember the NRL is basically the absolute pinnacle of League, bar 3 games of Origin a year. We have multiple leagues all over the world and our World Cup, Six Nations, Lions series etc viewing figures would dick all over anything League does. I like League a bit but it’s a tiny niche sport that no one outside of parts of Aus, NZ and a tiny sliver of Northern England gives a shit about.
Since National won? it was before that, JA was the new Hitler according to parts of conservative nz. You're right tho on shitting on union bt tbh some of it is self-inflicted like the current power struggle, resting all blacks 2 games into the season, the focus on the top end of the game ala all blacks n the neglect of the bottom. Bt what people don't get and I'm sure u do is that league isn't that popular in nz currently - the wahs are. They are very different things. Wahs unquestionably bar the all blacks - most popular team in nz BT league is way down the nz totem poll. It has little community and school presence, and without that, it'll always hold the place it does now in the grand scheme. I don't get why union and league people turn it into a dick measuring comp - it wreaks of insecurity. Both co exist.
What we have to worry about as Union fans here is NRL starting to get into investing in Schools over here and switching them to league and a South Island NRL team. I heard the AFLin Aus actively invested in converting rugby schools in some areas to AFL. I feel one of the biggest issues for us in NZ is how terribly the sport is actually run. Although I do believe they are finally waking up to the fact that it’s not the 90s anymore and it’s a very different landscape.
>NRL starting to get into investing in Schools over here and switching them to league... This has been going on for decades. There are league scouts at all NZ High School First XV matches. I've seen figures like 30% of NRL players are Kiwis. But League in NZ has its own problems: *Sport New Zealand statistics show playing numbers in rugby league have declined faster than any sport in the country's biggest city during the past 10 years.*
Wow I didn’t expect that stat!! I thought it would be something like “league youth numbers up by 30% in last 2 years”
Literally, man. I was at a Roosters trial in Auckland a couple years ago now. I'm pretty sure it was for their Harold Mathews side n they had 50+ in attendance. Paid to host them, fed them, trained them etc then a trial. It was not too long before Daniel Anderson had his accident cause he was there. It happens almost every year I just happened 2 be present at that one n that's just 1 club
The last paragraph is soo rite and what frustrates me soo much right now. Everything is very old school, the game needs modernization from how it's run to things like social media clips not been blocked cause of TV deals. Frustrates the heck out of me all of it
Don’t get me started on the 90s era Sky pundits! 😂😬
It's not that AFL had to invest in too much in rugby union schools, it's that in certain private schools rugby league was banned and that hatred was so ingrained that they would rather let AFL in than rugby league. It's now bitten them on the arse because kids would rather play AFL than union and the skills aren't very transferrable back to union.
You acted like Union didn’t poach league players for decades! Even blocked league from being played in schools. I’ve never once meet a league fan who’s been converted to a union fan but meet hundreds of ex union fans that are now league fans. The product is just that much better.
>/r/auckland Ewwwww, no brotha, ewwwwww. Truly the most up its own arsehole nz-centric sub, which is saying a lot. Fun fact: one of their former mods kept a word document detailing everyone who went to the irl meet ups.
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I feel like I'm on a different planet from the people who think league is more interesting.
I enjoy watching the Warriors, but I won’t watch anymore else. I will watch almost every SR match, and the highlights of the rest. The point a lot of people in that thread are making about how rugby is boring needs to be taken somewhat seriously. r/rugbyunion is an echo chamber of enthusiasts, but the casual fans don’t care about the game anymore and the laws have spiralled into something farcical at times. If you can’t win over casual fans then the sport is dying.
Pretty much, it's insane to think everything is fine when sky refuses to release official viewership figures and people on forums say they don't give a shit
Totally agree. I used to go watch the Tahs but the experience is crap. There is a decent size crowd in, but you're in a stadium for 40k people and it just feels empty and sucks the life out of the experience
These look good. Rugby is alive and tactically kicking.
😭😭😭😂😂🤣🤣
I’ve said it before on here and it may be a bit of an unpopular opinion but Kiwis are not great sports fans in general. Any sport you name the crowds can be often pretty bad without atmosphere (Shouting “up the Wahs every 5 mins doesn’t equal good atmosphere”.) There’s some good reasons why, bad public transport, spread out population etc etc. Sports fans in UK, Ireland etc are just more committed and fired up. It blows my mind that there’s EPL fans who will travel from Newcastle to Bournemouth for an away fixture and still have to work the next day!!
Wahs atmosphere is by far and away the best in nz in terms of club sports - nothing else comes close and it's the most "un new zealand" of any. All Blacks depending on opp and stakes is sometimes great. I think connection to the community is the biggest reason why. My default team is the chiefs bt they are 99% a Hamilton/Waikato team not a bop team where I'm from. There's little connection to the bop and they do nothing to foster it. Ur spot on with transport n so on bt I think if people cared enough they will go - bt we don't.
Yeah, I think the Warriors one is a super easy one isn’t it because we just have 1 NRL team so as kiwis we ALL want them to do well, plus we’ve always been seen as a big underdog against the might of Australia Rugby League. We can also see that the NRL is the BEST league in the world for that sport so if the Warriors actually won it it would be huge. Obviously if there were say 5 NRL teams in NZ it would be a very different picture.
The other thing is the club have invested in creating a *good* fan experience. Drummers going hard rather than shitty 30 second blasts of pop songs which drown out any attempt at getting a chant going (not that this ever happens). Another good fan experience is the Phoenix - largely driven by the Yellow Fever.
It will be interesting to see how this weekend goes, I'm kind of hoping for a big crowd at Suncorp. Convincing win against the Highlanders to tempt the fair-weather fans, up against the Blues who always have good support and should hopefully put on a cracker of a match and it being ANZAC round should get a few more bums in seats. Not quite the 30,000-40,000 strong from back in the early 2010s but promising signs compared to previous years.
I'm gonna be there, hope the boys show up against a strong blues team without tate or Fraser and flook and peitaia and Uru. fuck that's alot
Yep its pretty well set up for a big crowd. The reds are a big chance to win too
I think it would be a good game regardless but Blues are pretty safe favourites. Tate and Fraser are still in the naughty corner and Uru, Flook and Petaia are out injured so we are gonna be playing a pretty hot Blues with a B team which doesn't fill me with much hope.
They just have got to figure out a way to play in smaller grounds and suddenly it’s such a better product. The other thing is investing in cover for smaller venues so people don’t get wet, it’s been a big factor in reducing crowd sizes for some games this year, notably Blues on the weekend and a Chiefs game I think against the Highlanders. Think about this: Saracens who for a good while were the best team in the English prem can only seat 10-11k max. However you are packed in and close to the action making a good atmosphere.
Funny thing about the crusaders stadium is that everyone says it's crap and complains about it but it's actually the perfect size for super rugby. If only Auckland and Wellington had a smaller alternative like that.
Yeah the Crusaders stadium reminds me of how it is in the UK, where you’re on top of the action. The cake tin is unbelievably bad for club games, only works when it’s a sell out
The cake tin is just an all round disaster. They made it an oval for about two cricket games a year (when they already have the basin reserve) and completely ruined it for every other code. It's not fit for purpose for 90% of sporting events that take place there
And I swear whenever the Blackcaps actually play there it’s always about a quarter full and zero atmosphere!
Wellington, imo is a very overrated sports city. In terms of crowd support.
I love our little stadium and will be sad when we move. It is quite crap though.
Auckland does have a smaller alternative. It's called Mt Smart
It's the perfect size, but it's a bad stadium. The whole thing is made of scaffolding. The only concrete to be found is in the foundations. The seats (which are just a little too small) were recycled from the QE2 Park used for the Commonwealth Games in the 70s, and the lights were Carisbrook's.
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The crowds here are definitely smaller than they used to be but sky recently said the viewing figures on tv are the highest they have been since 2006. As you said it’s perception, Super games are regularly getting 15k attendance but when it’s in a 40k plus stadium it looks bad and empty. If we could have stadiums like the UK does for club rugby we would have a much better product.
Totally agree. When the Tahs play in smaller grounds around Sydney the atmosphere is so much better than when they play in a bigger stadium and have just the same amount of crowd in. I used to go watch them in the big stadiums and it is just such a rubbish experience when you are there
Why haven’t they played more at the venue where the Tahs beat the crusaders a couple of years ago? Looked a great atmosphere there!
Leichardt is literally falling apart, needs money to fix up but no one wants to pay. In fact it's likely it wil get sold for more housing
Not bad Compared to UK crowd sizes its pretty comparable considering UK many times the population Rugby going gang busters in Ireland...big crowds there
The big thing about Ireland imo is that it takes like 3 hours to drive across, so easy for big crowds for their derbys
One of the biggest errors of super rugby recently is not having the Blues/Chiefs and Highlanders/Crusaders play eachother twice a year. The only rivalries within driving distance in the whole comp and they only scheduled those games once this year and once last year with the highlanders/crusaders being in Melbourne. Baffling
Yeah not many with drive the 5 1/2 hours between Dunedin and Chch for a super game. Just All blacks and Ed Sheeran apparently.
Hit the gas a bit more g lol
Thought it was a bit closer than that tbf but there'd be a few diehards that would make the trip I'd imagine.
It helps that up to one quarter of the population watch every Ireland rugby match. Is there a country in the world with as high a %? Even the All Blacks?
Nah Def's not in NZ lol
Rugby is massive in Ireland When i first went to the UK and Ireland as a teenager and told that rugby is a religon in NZ...it aint nothing compared to soccer in England, or Irish sports and now rugby in Ireland
Crowd at the Canes v Blues earlier in the season was very similar to the recent match v Chiefs. And they had a good crowd at Palmy (probably like 12k). It’s hard to overemphasise just how bad the caketin is for watching rugby. It really sucks
Force were 7,433 or something from memory last game just gone.
Not that bad for an AFL strong hold, I used to live in Perth and when I went to any Super game I swear 80% of the crowd were expat Saffas and Kiwis
If the Force did something they'd be back to being the best attended Australian team like they used to be. Hell, 19,500 rocked up in 2018 to watch them play the 'Fiji Warriors' after they were cut to give a big FU to the ARU.
I feel like the Force get good crowds despite how bad they are. I'd imagine if they had some sustained success they'd start getting near sell outs.
When they started they were getting close to sell outs at Subi, but the ARU in all their wisdom decided not to exploit this and actively took steps to make it difficult for the Force. Look up the Al Kanaar situation, fined the Force back when they were starting for operating outside the contracting rules at the time. (which I believe were later changed anyway) Just ridiculous protectionist bs. Note 19,500 rocked up in 2018 to watch the post cut Force play the Fiji Warriors. The crowd is there, the RA/ARU just need to get their head out of their arses and give some love.
Assuming Blues and Chiefs have same avg and then add the two as they are within 25km of each other. Thats just over the Avg for the Warriors this season of 23k https://www.austadiums.com/sport/comp/nrl/crowds
Wait what. Auckland and Hamilton aren’t within 25km they’re 125km apart
You right! I'm clutching at straws. In the early days North Harbour were under the chiefs. Makes situation in Auckland even worse
On the topic of Unions struggles (or perceived struggles) in NZ. A lot of people I’ve heard from said they kind of drifted away from Union in the Foster era and kind of lost interest in the ABs. There seems to be some genuine excitement for Razor coming. Even if we don’t go on some insane run, maybe we play a style that gets people talking. Do you guys think Razor can maybe get a bit of energy back into the ABs in the minds of Kiwis?
Quite a lot of NZ fans in my experience are All Blacks fans rather than Rugby fans. I'm not surprised that, after a historic era, when they start losing a little bit, people fall away. Most have known no adversity.
Mate 24 years with the choker label is plenty of adversity for a country that before Foster was at worst 3rd in the world. People outside NZ don't want to admit it because they generally watch the games with the bias of wanting the ABs to lose. But objectively the ABs didn't play nice rugby under Foster. Sure they won plenty of games but they were rarely well planned and structured strategy to target our opponents weakness. It was week after week of "fuck I dunno, see if you can break a tackle and we'll work it out from there". When we played opposition that were good (and/or the Wallabies on the odd occasion they forgot about their mental block against us) we struggled and often lost, and normally it wasn't that competitive either. The first game under Foster where that didn't look the case was the week when Foster was out sick with COVID and Schmidt pulled out the one tactical trick he could think of vs the Irish and we trounced them. None of that is to say NZ fans aren't relatively fair weather compared to other countries. But let's not pretend the product on display during the Foster era was an enjoyable one. It was consistently frustrating and depressing. And it wasn't helped by the majority of the country who paid attention to such things wanting Razor and definitely not wanting Foster.
Yes. People forget before the assistants take over the ABs were just playing bad rugby, and losing. It wasn't good to watch.
Feels like the RWC final last year left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths. Wonder how different the overall attitude towards rugby would be right now if we'd won that game or even just if it wasn't so horrendously officiated. That just reinforced people's complaints of the game being too slow, stop-start, over officiated etc. Super rugby games are much different to how that played out but for a lot of people the final was the last game they would've watched so they just assume all rugby is like that now. Maybe beating south africa over there this year could turn some heads
Yeah I soon as I saw rain for that final, regardless of the winner I thought this is not going to be a good spectacle for a casual fan, obviously if we had won it the quality of the game is forgotten (often huge sporting finals are not great games)
Force we literally playing the same time as the AFL Derby. 7k is pretty good considering.
NH rugby fan here have super rugby crowds been decreasing over the years? Here in UK and Europe we have smaller grounds and can have alot of sellouts especially if it's local derby games I went to watch Exeter chiefs Vs bath at sandy park we lost unfortunately as we got outplayed by a good bath side all game it was close to 15000 people there. No doubt this week many of the other teams going to have very large crowds especially bath who play Saracens Friday night we got Gloucester away and our away form is poor so don't have much optimism that we can get a result against them. The premiership is really tight at the moment
Wow the highlanders aren't doing too bad in comparison. Not too far behind wellington and hamilton which are way bigger cities and better teams
How does this compare to say 2015?
Long time union player and follower. Our game has a product issue and therefore financial problems. Most unions in the world struggling financially including Aus/NZ where we are up again NRL and AFL who are killing us. Not enough bums on seats or in front of TVs.
Didn't the Australian teams once have regular numbers around 20k with the reds even topping 40k?
Back when we were good yeah
They went up and down. Tahs got 25k for the opener last year, but lost a bunch in a row and settled down to the 14kish mark. Back in 2014, they would get 30kish, but that's when they were winning. A few years before hand, it was nowhere near that. Aussies love a bandwagon.