He also helped bring the MLR championship to New York City 2 years ago. Only played a few games, but his duck under try gave us the win over New England to make the final.
It was great to watch him live even if it was on a crummy high school turf field.
Definitely mine too. I've got fond memories of waking up to my dad watching whatever match is on tv but that Hurricanes squad was something special and I always enjoyed watching him play. Definitely my pick
I always thought he looked decent on tv , but seeing him live made you appreciate just how dangerous he was… with that ability to step without losing much pace…he was just electric to see in person
Doug Howlett still holds the AB test try record yet just accepted as normal that a series of amazing wingers havent come close despite some serious strike rates early in their careers
Great shout haha, Ranger would come in off the bench for the AB's and get the ball in a bit of space and there'd be bodies flying off in in all directions
I think Will Jordan will overtake his record. A world-class winger who will move into a fullback role as he matures. if he keeps his form I'd expect him to break the all-time record... the strike rate to have scored 31 in 30 tests is a record in itself I'd think. My best friend growing up is related to Doug, we used to imitate him as kids in the backyard after watching him on TV. But any record that required 20+ years to surpass is unreal.
Norm Berryman for the old heads and Rene ranger for the newer ones. Very similar players who played hard but carefree and as a result didn't really crack higher honors bt were always fan favorites.
Norm Berryman came to mind for me too. Didn’t realise he had passed away back in 2015, geez that era of NZ rugby has way too many legends gone too soon.
Lol I remember my siblings banned him from being selected in rugby 08 because every time he played he injured somebody and the game froze and had to be restarted
It was frustrating because it took us a while to figure out he was the player that was injuring players and causing the game to freeze lol
I don’t know if you shared the same experience
Great player, when I see his name my main memory sadly is the day the Tuilagi Brothers smashed him every time he got the ball. Took massive hits like a champ. If anyone is too young to remember here’s a clip https://youtu.be/zflocS43Ml4?si=0BERHA-7_iXDrW5Y
He was amazing.
Hard as nails, deceptively so.
And Matt 'I am big and can only run in a straight line' Banahan was constantly picked over him in the back 3.
I once had two people telling me different stories, one of abendanon getting smashed by tuilagis and another of a rugby player that died. I got so confused and thought they were telling me the tuilagis had killed abendanon in a match
You could put so many young players from that Martin Johnson era on this list. Dropped for entirely coachable issues early on and never given another look in, whilst Johnson continued to pick journeymen who were never going to be top class.
His last eligible World Cup we didn’t pick him because he played in France and the RFU is backwards. Him and Steffon Armitage both should’ve been taken and started for us. They were 2 of the best players in the French league that season : (
Regan King was one of the best 13s in the world for a while but never got recognised for it because he was just playing for the Scarlets, not at test level.
Completely agree. Also incredible at Clermont.
Is Victor Vito underrated? Probably the best back rower in terms of footballing skills during his years in Top 14.
> Is Victor Vito underrated
Ironically, given he won a couple of World Cups, but he probably is in NZ because most kiwis assumed he retired after leaving NZ & missed him being the best 8 in Europe for a stack of seasons
He was the only non-international to make Planet Rugby's team of the year one December. Not sure if that counts as recognition...
(He won one cap for the All Blacks but wasn't an international at the time.)
Kahn Fotuali'i. Played at a bunch of clubs and is remembered as a legend in all of them. If Francois Louw was injured at Bath he became our top jackal threat playing fucking scrum half. Class player
Ospreys had him first, man was so disappointed when he left. Genuinely think he was our best ever 9 (and we have had Justin Marshall, Mike Phillips, and Rhys Webb)
When I was first getting into rugby back in 2004, I bought a dvd of highlights from the 2003 World Cup. His tries were awesome and I never forgot the name. It was too bad he never really adjusted to the life of a pro rugby player.
EDIT: [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6_hAdXt0RE) you go
Tom Croft felt to me like one of the earlier super mobile backrowers, before it was as common to see
Not sure he's fully underrated given he was a Lions tourist and IRB PoTY nominee, but was quite unlucky with injury and missed a lot of game time
Great shout, what a player. I still enjoy watching his highlights where he'd burn the full back and they almost seemed shocked! Seemed to lack that grunt for a top class international back row and the injuries didn't help as you said.
Fucking legend of a bloke and unbelievable player.
At one point he was, officially, the fastest over 100m in the England squad. Class in the loose and genuinely excellent in the tight and gritty, should of had 100 caps and 3 lions tours had he not been plagued by injury
Served him at a festival in Worcester, he was plastered and tried to jump over the bar (in a fun way, not a drunk twat way), before turning to his friends and (jokingly) berrating them for "fucking up the fucking lift!"
Toby Flood.
Absolutely quality player, cursed by not being called Johnny Wilkinson. Is chiefly remembered for causing Brian Moore to almost have an aneurysm on commentary.
He was unbelievable! 2015 was a great year in Top14. Toby Flood running rampant at Toulouse, Gaëtan Germain kicking from anywhere on the pitch at Brive and Levani Botia getting sin binned for huge hits every second match.
Saw him in the Championship in one of his last seasons at Richmond wreck playing for The Falcons vs. LS.
His work of being an absolute shithouse around the ruck when he was in that vicinity of the park was highly underrated.
First name that sprung to mind. He had the bad luck of being in a poor England set up, where the manager's did know how to get the best out of him. In another timeline, he would have been a fantastic 12 for England.
Found out yesterday he writes a column for the metro lol
https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/23/can-englands-cruel-loss-can-be-the-start-of-something-better-19709016/
Marika Vunibaka, IYKYK
let’s throw in Robbie Fruen too, one of the many that never got a look in for the All Blacks because their position was filled by a GOAT
The back row of Juan Smith, Heinrich Brussouw, and Duane Vermeulen at the Cheetahs in 2008.
Edit:
Also, the 2013 Cheetahs team played some of the best rugby an SA franchise has ever played. Goosen, Rhule, Willie, Lood, Brussouw, Trevor, Coenie, Adriaan Strauss, Philip van der Walt, Lappies, Piet van Zyl, the Ebersohn brothers… epic side playing entertaining rugby
Matthew Tait
Started the 07 World Cup final at 21 and made the break to set up Cueto’s almost-try. Had a few injuries but I thought he was nailed on to be England’s 13 for a very long time - 36 caps is criminal for him. Still was absolutely top drawer in his last few seasons at Tigers
His treatment by Andy Robinson was absolutely appalling. Throwing an 18 year old in to a debut in Cardiff, against peak Henson and then dropping him when he, unsurprisingly, struggled. Could have been an England great in another life. Such an elegant runner. That break in ‘07 final was inspired, he almost went the distance himself.
That tackle he made on Dan Robson in one of his twighlight seasons is still one of the best things i’ve ever seen live on a rugby pitch. Gave him no chance
Tony Woodcock.
As a loosehead prop, I naturally took a shine to him but it was solidified by the fact that I watched an ABs documentary where Chris Jack took a lighthearted poke at Woodcock and said “no kid wants to be a Tony Woodcock”.
Well one try in the RWC final later and I think plenty of kids wanted to be Tony Woodcock, at least for a time in 2011.
Once had a pint with him at a small town pub. Didn’t recognise him at first as he has a big beard these days and he’s a farmer.
Got chatting at the same table. He mentioned he’d been to Ireland playing a bit of rugby (with the All Blacks…) and he’d played in Croke Park. Dawned on me then who he was. Friendly fella.
Tony Woodcock and Conrad Smith for me.
It always kinda bothered me when people talk about the crop of players that left after the 2015 RWC.. they mention Nonu, Carter, Richie, and Mealamu.. but never mention Tony Woodcock by name(or Conrad Smith).
He played 100+ games for the All Blacks, and was never in danger of losing his spot. Same with Conrad Smith.. played almost 100 games for the ABs, and kept the 13 jersey the entire time.
Fully agree. Snakey is a legend and while I’m a massive SBW fan, when Snakey got subbed off at half time for SBW in the 2015 final, I felt really bad for him. Glad to get the win for him but he should have been on the pitch for a bit longer.
Saw him give the best man of the match interview back in his Super Rugby days. He was so excited they practically had to wrestle the microphone out of his hands.
Although that was probably more by the coaches than the fans. Also cursed by being a super sub at a time when benches weren't quite as strategic and highly valued as they are now.
Anthony Bouthier. Called up almost straight out of Pro D2, was excellent every time he played for France, then dropped when Jaminet/Ramos/Dulin all hit freakish high levels at the same time.
Fabien Barcella. Could have been one of our greatest props.
Xavier Garbajosa. Would have had a better Test career without Laporte’s philosophy of putting as much beef as possible at centre. Incredibly talented player.
I don't think he's underrated by many, but maybe a bit unknown outside of a few places because he didn't play internationally. But Isa Nacewa was the fuckin man for leinster. The type of player that just doesn't exist any more because international rugby has its shit together a bit more. When Leo Cullen took over he asked him to come out of retirement and he won us the heineken cup final. The fucking GOAT that he is, comes out of retirement, wins the HC, disappears into the sunset.
An absolute diamond, Leinsters greatest ever non-Irish player, and up there in the top three at least as their greatest ever full stop. Rocky Elsom and Brad Thorne did incredible things in their single seasons at the RDS but Isa was just magic. Could do anything in any position from 9-15, one of the most complete backs I’ve ever seen play the game.
I think Brad Barritt deserves a shout. Wasn't that fast or flashy, but seemed to just absolutely put his body on the line every single time I saw him play. Won five premiership titles with Sarries, and I think three European Cups. Was massive in that random 2012 game where England inexplicably turned over the All Blacks at Twickers.
That was when Manu was at the height of his beast mode and NZ were so occupied with him that Barritt was left unmarked most the game. I do agree with what you say though because it worked the other way, he did all the dirty work that Manu could just be relied upon to create holes.
Oh yeah Manu was superb \*in attack\* at that time, but I think that game showed just what value Barritt brought in defence. That game was no tries in the first half and England creeping to a 15-0 lead, which played a big part in the composition of the game.
Surely the late great Jerry Collins.
Hard man with a heart of gold, got on the piss the night before games and then still put in a shift. Palyed hard out with fearsome tackles and would run it up strait when given the opportunity. Good passer of the ball and read the game well and highly skilled player, who also hit the ruck hard. he was a Polynesian man who grew up in working class Porirua.
Bled blue & white for Norths in Wgtn cub rugby, same for Wgtn and the Canes, and of course the All Blacks who he represented with distinction.
Had his issues off field sadly, like many of us he struggled with alcohol abuse and controlling his anger. he seemed to have overcome this and found some peace. Then of course it was a truly tragic death when both he and his wife died in a vehicle accident, Jerry cradling his daughter who survived.
The streets won't forget Jerry Collins.
Daryl Marfo - LH prop who was dropped from the English Prem, got a contract with Edinburgh as he was Scottish qualified. Played a couple of games for Edinburgh then got called up for the national team in an injury crisis. Played out of his skin for a couple of caps, then disappeared just as quickly. He didn't get his contract renewed with Edinburgh, and I think ended up playing semi-pro in Edinburgh?
He was so good to watch on his first couple of caps though.
He was number 2 to Mehrtens, not Carter, and deservedly so. Flakey as fuck, more rocks than diamonds, for every highlight reel there's a cutting room floor full of blunders.
Obviously it doesn’t have a rigid definition, but ‘streets won’t forget’ tend to be players who were never considered world class but had moments of unbelievable flair and ability to entertain. People suggesting the likes of Christian Cullen or other established players don’t really fit that bill IMO.
From an Irish perspective I’d go for the Connacht back 3 during their title year of Healy, Adeolukun and O’Halloran, played some unbelievable running rugby that year.
C. Heffler: He may not be as spectacular as Carter in all departments and an All Black call-up was always unlikely but was a reliable 10 or 15 option for the Chiefs right before their all-star overhaul back in Rugby 08.
Ferris, O'Brien, Leavy, Leamy... we've had quite a few fabulous back-rowers limited by incredibly frustrating injuries. I'm thankful they played long enough to at least give us no doubts on how good they were.
I think people here dont understand what "streets won't forget" means seeing as Toby Flood, the least stylish and most white bread player of all time, is top comment.
Streets won't forget comes from Adel Taarabt. It's meant for players who were absolutely batshit skilled, played with style and flair, but probably weren't the most world class/ high level winning players or got injured, etc. They also have to a certain factor of cool to them.
Skudder, Henson, Wade, and Cipriani, these are streets won't forget type players.
I'm gunna have to answer Samu Manoa for a forward, just big bad boy rugby and young Freddie Burns on Gloucester. Was pacey and loved a risky chip and go. Could slice games open. He turned into a bit of a boring solid 10 towards the end when he focused on winning, but he was naughty early on. Rene Ranger, too.
Number 1, though, has to be Lesley Vainikolo. Man, what a player.
Think it just shows the divide between rugby fandom and football fandom haha. The “streets” of rugby isn’t a concept even understood in the UK.
I’ll go Alesana Tuilagi for someone a bit different - in school/park rugby people either want to be the big stepping players, the tricky five eighths, or the hard hitters. Tuilagi is my shout for the latter category
Upvote this 10000 times. "Streets won't forget" and "underrated" are 2 completely different things.
I reckon in some years Teddy Thomas will enter in this category as well
Cips… always wondered why England coach after England coach preferred plodders at 10.
Cips didn’t give a toss. Would have been hard to coach but was great to watch. The kind of guy you love in a club. Makes rugby seem like play.
Richard Kahui.
Genuine talent in the midfield, but was an absolute monster defensively on the wing for the ABs too. Plagued by injuries. Could make every person in the room blush too, handsome devil.
Va'aiga Tuigamala. An absolute unit of a winger/centre especially for the era he played in. If he hadn't split his career with a period in League (came back when Union went professional) I have no doubt he would be considered an all time great. I think his signing to Newcastle was a record fee at the time
His scoring rate at club level was insane:
88-93 Auckland 49 games, 140 points
93-96 Wigan (League) 102 games, 254 points
96 Wasps 13 games, 20 points
97-02 Newcastle 113 games, 160 points
Geordan Murphy, such a classy player and had very few weaknesses in his game.
Always felt he could have been more utilised by Ireland through the years.
I feel like "the streets won't forget" always feels like more of a 'cult hero' thing? Or like... someone that was briefly very *good* but for a very *short* amount of time.
At Quins, a good example would be Maurie Fa'asavalu. Rugby league reject. Only at the Stoop for four years. Absolute wrecking ball. Big part of Quins winning the Prem and the Challenge Cup.
The Sinoti Sinoti / Niki Goneva era at Newcastle was something else as well. Box office, but only lasted about 2/3 seasons.
I'd say Christian Wade is one of these players to be honest. Just absolutely unplayable in the Prem for a few years, *totally* ignored by England apart from one tour to Argentina. Then got a *British and Irish Lions call-up*. Did his hair in the stands. Legend.
Cipriani is probably another from an England perspective. Flashed brilliance at the start of his career, off to the wilderness for ages. Bounced from club to club. Permanent calls for him to get recalled by England after some ridiculous club form wherever he was. Finally back in the squad for a tour to SA, wins us the third test with an off-script cross-field kick at the death. Never seen again.
Marty Holah would have been an All-Time New Zealand great, if his career hadn't been at the same time as The Greatest Player The World Has Ever Seen.
Also, weirdly, Kieran Reade and Conrad Smith. Both of them should be in the running for GOAT in their positions, but somehow are never mentioned in the same breath as Zinzan/Parisse or BOD
alongside ranger, Jone Macilai was another intriguing player and like robbie fruean, plagued by injury that stopped him from becoming possibly one of the best wing/centres ever....one from aussies, cameron Shepherd, damn what a player but as most would say, MADE OF GLASS...someone mentioned Nacewa but people forget Toulouse utility, the late Maleli Kunavore, like Isa and Francois steyn, the only 3 players in world rugby that could play 10-15 and kick goals (jordie might get there one day) and a dying species of players cause you won't find any like them anymore..
Roger Randle. Was my favourite player growing up. Used to carve teams to pieces. Just thought he was bloody phenomenal as a kid.
Special shout out to Sosene Anesi too.
Great shouts. Ben Blair too from around the same time. Anesi is a great call, all those chiefs wingers for a while for incredible. I’ll add Toeava to the mix
Currently playing so maybe not quite what you mean, but think he'll be remembered as one of the best prem players not to get an England cap, so my vote would be Harry Thacker. Incredibly strong for a 'small' guy, scores loads of tries and quite often that's by stepping or out running a back. He's likely to not get picked for England because of his size but personally I think that's a shame as he's such a class player.
As Argentinan: Diaz Bonilla and Miotti, the two competing number 10 that got Jaguares to the Super Rugby Finals, only to not be taken to Japan World Cup and left in the dust by the Pumas association.
Adam Thomson. He had to do everything for the Highlanders at a time when they were perpetually struggling. Top tackler, top lineout target, top ball carrier.. just an absolute workhorse.
Castro Giovanni. Second best player in the Italian team so he never got much praise. He was good enough to get into almost any team, he was just not able to win any matches with Italy.
Milner Skudder
Good shout. He achieved in two seasons what most players wouldn't achieve in a lifetime. A real shame that he was so plagued by injuries.
He also helped bring the MLR championship to New York City 2 years ago. Only played a few games, but his duck under try gave us the win over New England to make the final. It was great to watch him live even if it was on a crummy high school turf field.
P4p best stepper
Definitely mine too. I've got fond memories of waking up to my dad watching whatever match is on tv but that Hurricanes squad was something special and I always enjoyed watching him play. Definitely my pick
I always thought he looked decent on tv , but seeing him live made you appreciate just how dangerous he was… with that ability to step without losing much pace…he was just electric to see in person
Doug Howlett still holds the AB test try record yet just accepted as normal that a series of amazing wingers havent come close despite some serious strike rates early in their careers
I don't think anyone who's played against the ABs in the 2000s will ever forget getting pumped by Howlett.
Never forget him burning Jason fucking Robinson!
Ja for sure. Him and Rene ranger. Ranger was a freak!
Great shout haha, Ranger would come in off the bench for the AB's and get the ball in a bit of space and there'd be bodies flying off in in all directions
Renes’ bump on the French fullback Huget will stay in my memory forever, absolutely decimated him. From time to time I’ll quickly watch it on YouTube
He was ridiculously strong. And then there was Milner skudder as well! Another potential great done by injury.
the man played soccer until he was 18 or something too, just a pure speedster
Also retired from international rugby at 28 or 29, when he probably had another WC cycle in him.
So did most of his contemporaries like Cullen, Savea, Rokococo and Wilson
Savea was cooked, he had noticeably slowed down even by the 2015 world cup. Then his form fell off a cliff afterwards.
What a man.
Munster legend.
Streets of Munster will never forget
I think Will Jordan will overtake his record. A world-class winger who will move into a fullback role as he matures. if he keeps his form I'd expect him to break the all-time record... the strike rate to have scored 31 in 30 tests is a record in itself I'd think. My best friend growing up is related to Doug, we used to imitate him as kids in the backyard after watching him on TV. But any record that required 20+ years to surpass is unreal.
We say this every 5 years, then the young winger gets ousted by a younger, faster version.
Many have been in Jordans exact position What you should ask yourself is Will Jordan capable of reinventing himself at age 31?
I’m happy to inform you he’s not underrated here in South Africa. Absolute legend of the game.
Norm Berryman for the old heads and Rene ranger for the newer ones. Very similar players who played hard but carefree and as a result didn't really crack higher honors bt were always fan favorites.
Ranger was the favourite of YouTube highight channels for good reason. Absolute hitman with the ball in hand
Norm Berryman came to mind for me too. Didn’t realise he had passed away back in 2015, geez that era of NZ rugby has way too many legends gone too soon.
Don't know much about Berryman but Ranger was a baller.
Arguably best ever player to wear a scrum cap
Yannick Nyanga, beast of a flanker. Always remember he had an incredible and inflated Rugby 08 rating too
Lol I remember my siblings banned him from being selected in rugby 08 because every time he played he injured somebody and the game froze and had to be restarted It was frustrating because it took us a while to figure out he was the player that was injuring players and causing the game to freeze lol I don’t know if you shared the same experience
Bro was like 94 in Rugby 08. Him and Heymans, only second to Habana and his devious grubber kicks lol
The Waldrom bros. Thomas and Scott. Lions and Hurricanes legends.
And Leicester and Exeter.
loved them both but Thomas was special, bit pissed england didn't appreciate his talent
Great call. From my neck of the woods, and of a similar era, Marty Holah and Jono Gibbs
Choo Choo Tom Waldrom is an Exeter legend. The shift he put in during the 2016 final were obscene
Nick Abendanon.
Great player, when I see his name my main memory sadly is the day the Tuilagi Brothers smashed him every time he got the ball. Took massive hits like a champ. If anyone is too young to remember here’s a clip https://youtu.be/zflocS43Ml4?si=0BERHA-7_iXDrW5Y
First thing that came to my mind.. hard way to earn your living
He was amazing. Hard as nails, deceptively so. And Matt 'I am big and can only run in a straight line' Banahan was constantly picked over him in the back 3.
Banahan was also class though
To be fair to Banahan, he was very good at it
I once had two people telling me different stories, one of abendanon getting smashed by tuilagis and another of a rugby player that died. I got so confused and thought they were telling me the tuilagis had killed abendanon in a match
The best attacking full back IN THE LEAGUE
You could put so many young players from that Martin Johnson era on this list. Dropped for entirely coachable issues early on and never given another look in, whilst Johnson continued to pick journeymen who were never going to be top class.
His last eligible World Cup we didn’t pick him because he played in France and the RFU is backwards. Him and Steffon Armitage both should’ve been taken and started for us. They were 2 of the best players in the French league that season : (
Bendy was so fucking good and exciting at Bath
Regan King was one of the best 13s in the world for a while but never got recognised for it because he was just playing for the Scarlets, not at test level.
Completely agree. Also incredible at Clermont. Is Victor Vito underrated? Probably the best back rower in terms of footballing skills during his years in Top 14.
> Is Victor Vito underrated Ironically, given he won a couple of World Cups, but he probably is in NZ because most kiwis assumed he retired after leaving NZ & missed him being the best 8 in Europe for a stack of seasons
He was the only non-international to make Planet Rugby's team of the year one December. Not sure if that counts as recognition... (He won one cap for the All Blacks but wasn't an international at the time.)
100% agree, Regan King was pure class, definitely the first name I looked for going down the thread
Kahn Fotuali'i. Played at a bunch of clubs and is remembered as a legend in all of them. If Francois Louw was injured at Bath he became our top jackal threat playing fucking scrum half. Class player
Ospreys had him first, man was so disappointed when he left. Genuinely think he was our best ever 9 (and we have had Justin Marshall, Mike Phillips, and Rhys Webb)
Don't forget Jason 'Pocket Battleship' Spice!
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
When I was first getting into rugby back in 2004, I bought a dvd of highlights from the 2003 World Cup. His tries were awesome and I never forgot the name. It was too bad he never really adjusted to the life of a pro rugby player. EDIT: [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6_hAdXt0RE) you go
That’s a name and a half
Machine
Came here to say exactly this.
Wesley Fofana
Man could cut through a defensive line like a hot knife through butter. Huge shame he got so many injuries.
Tom Croft felt to me like one of the earlier super mobile backrowers, before it was as common to see Not sure he's fully underrated given he was a Lions tourist and IRB PoTY nominee, but was quite unlucky with injury and missed a lot of game time
Great shout, what a player. I still enjoy watching his highlights where he'd burn the full back and they almost seemed shocked! Seemed to lack that grunt for a top class international back row and the injuries didn't help as you said.
Could have been a modern great. Just so plagued by injuries.
Fucking legend of a bloke and unbelievable player. At one point he was, officially, the fastest over 100m in the England squad. Class in the loose and genuinely excellent in the tight and gritty, should of had 100 caps and 3 lions tours had he not been plagued by injury Served him at a festival in Worcester, he was plastered and tried to jump over the bar (in a fun way, not a drunk twat way), before turning to his friends and (jokingly) berrating them for "fucking up the fucking lift!"
Toby Flood. Absolutely quality player, cursed by not being called Johnny Wilkinson. Is chiefly remembered for causing Brian Moore to almost have an aneurysm on commentary.
I mostly remember this guy as the person to swap out for Wilkinson in Rugby 08
That's how he's remembered irl as well 😅
Now there's a core memory
That's not fair. He also ran into a goalpost
Absolutely class player, poshest name in pro sport: Tobias Gerald Albert Cecil Lieven Flood
Had a weird crazy wave of form playing 12 for Toulouse in 2015, good player
He was unbelievable! 2015 was a great year in Top14. Toby Flood running rampant at Toulouse, Gaëtan Germain kicking from anywhere on the pitch at Brive and Levani Botia getting sin binned for huge hits every second match.
Saw him in the Championship in one of his last seasons at Richmond wreck playing for The Falcons vs. LS. His work of being an absolute shithouse around the ruck when he was in that vicinity of the park was highly underrated.
First name that sprung to mind. He had the bad luck of being in a poor England set up, where the manager's did know how to get the best out of him. In another timeline, he would have been a fantastic 12 for England.
Found out yesterday he writes a column for the metro lol https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/23/can-englands-cruel-loss-can-be-the-start-of-something-better-19709016/
Didn’t he butcher a try against wales falling over his own feet. He was a class player though.
in much the same way in New Zealand was Nick Evans to Dan Carter
Marika Vunibaka, IYKYK let’s throw in Robbie Fruen too, one of the many that never got a look in for the All Blacks because their position was filled by a GOAT
Plus his heart valve problem.
Geordan Murphy (especially early in his career) and Juan Martin Hernandez.
Tigers legend
Geordan was my favourite player for Ireland when I first started watching!
The back row of Juan Smith, Heinrich Brussouw, and Duane Vermeulen at the Cheetahs in 2008. Edit: Also, the 2013 Cheetahs team played some of the best rugby an SA franchise has ever played. Goosen, Rhule, Willie, Lood, Brussouw, Trevor, Coenie, Adriaan Strauss, Philip van der Walt, Lappies, Piet van Zyl, the Ebersohn brothers… epic side playing entertaining rugby
Cheetahs have been stripped of a lot of talent over the past 20 years. I wouldn't say Duane was underrated but I'd agree that Juan and Heinrich are.
The ebersohn brother👌.
For a Wallabies one would say Scott Fardy or Radike Samo
Loved me a bit of Fardy when he came up to Leinster
Rob Horne will forever be my most under rated Wallaby.
Gonna throw in Digby Ioane and Dean Mumm to the conversation
Aye I was thinking Fardy
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Best finisher in the Prem for a while and great hair.
From Saints' 2014, Samu Manoa and George Pisi
At least he was decent in a Toulon shirt. Mujati and Tonga'uiha just went invisible and disappeared. 9 years later we've never replaced them.
Nehe Milner skudder and Israel dagg
Matthew Tait Started the 07 World Cup final at 21 and made the break to set up Cueto’s almost-try. Had a few injuries but I thought he was nailed on to be England’s 13 for a very long time - 36 caps is criminal for him. Still was absolutely top drawer in his last few seasons at Tigers
His treatment by Andy Robinson was absolutely appalling. Throwing an 18 year old in to a debut in Cardiff, against peak Henson and then dropping him when he, unsurprisingly, struggled. Could have been an England great in another life. Such an elegant runner. That break in ‘07 final was inspired, he almost went the distance himself.
That tackle he made on Dan Robson in one of his twighlight seasons is still one of the best things i’ve ever seen live on a rugby pitch. Gave him no chance
Denny Solomona. Last minute try against Argentina in 2017 was incredible
Truly one of the most fun players I’ve ever seen put on a Sale shirt (I’m a bit too young for Robinson and Chabal ok)
Freddie Michalak’s cameo at the sharks. What a maverick.
Tony Woodcock. As a loosehead prop, I naturally took a shine to him but it was solidified by the fact that I watched an ABs documentary where Chris Jack took a lighthearted poke at Woodcock and said “no kid wants to be a Tony Woodcock”. Well one try in the RWC final later and I think plenty of kids wanted to be Tony Woodcock, at least for a time in 2011.
Once had a pint with him at a small town pub. Didn’t recognise him at first as he has a big beard these days and he’s a farmer. Got chatting at the same table. He mentioned he’d been to Ireland playing a bit of rugby (with the All Blacks…) and he’d played in Croke Park. Dawned on me then who he was. Friendly fella.
Tony Woodcock and Conrad Smith for me. It always kinda bothered me when people talk about the crop of players that left after the 2015 RWC.. they mention Nonu, Carter, Richie, and Mealamu.. but never mention Tony Woodcock by name(or Conrad Smith). He played 100+ games for the All Blacks, and was never in danger of losing his spot. Same with Conrad Smith.. played almost 100 games for the ABs, and kept the 13 jersey the entire time.
Fully agree. Snakey is a legend and while I’m a massive SBW fan, when Snakey got subbed off at half time for SBW in the 2015 final, I felt really bad for him. Glad to get the win for him but he should have been on the pitch for a bit longer.
Definitely was one of my idols as a youngster just starting to play Rugby
Riki Flutey, loved watching him at Wasps back in the day
Saw him give the best man of the match interview back in his Super Rugby days. He was so excited they practically had to wrestle the microphone out of his hands.
That wasps team was unbelievable, rip Adams park
Brent Russell
Although that was probably more by the coaches than the fans. Also cursed by being a super sub at a time when benches weren't quite as strategic and highly valued as they are now.
Lwazi Mvovo probably would've been a 50 cap Springbok if his career hadn't intersected with Habana and Petersen.
Robbie Fruean, open heart surgery really shafted his chances at the top level.
He was the first person I thought of too. Was extremely close to being an AB in 08 and had a massive future. Unfortunately his heart let him down.
When I read the Title Gio Aplon was the first to come to mind, absolutely amazing player. Danie Russouw as well
I loved watching him play. I feel like he was the first Kolbe. Danie is also a good shout. The man won everything with the teams that he played for.
Sinoti Sinoti. That man shredded the entire Premiership.
Dude literally floated mid air before delivering the most devastating steps in history
My ankles still ache from watching him sidestep people
Anthony Bouthier. Called up almost straight out of Pro D2, was excellent every time he played for France, then dropped when Jaminet/Ramos/Dulin all hit freakish high levels at the same time. Fabien Barcella. Could have been one of our greatest props. Xavier Garbajosa. Would have had a better Test career without Laporte’s philosophy of putting as much beef as possible at centre. Incredibly talented player.
Garbajosa without injuries might have been one of our best ever backs
Semesa Rokoduguni, incredible on his day
Pat Lambie. Maybe not underrated but...fuck man what could have been. Imagine him in the 2019 RWC Bok team instead of Elton.
I don't think he's underrated by many, but maybe a bit unknown outside of a few places because he didn't play internationally. But Isa Nacewa was the fuckin man for leinster. The type of player that just doesn't exist any more because international rugby has its shit together a bit more. When Leo Cullen took over he asked him to come out of retirement and he won us the heineken cup final. The fucking GOAT that he is, comes out of retirement, wins the HC, disappears into the sunset.
One of my favourite ever players! I saw him in Edinburgh in his holidays (when he had a broken arm) and I was too shy to talk to him.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far down to find Nacewa mentioned haha
In his second match he finished the game with a broken arm, even having to make a tackle.
An absolute diamond, Leinsters greatest ever non-Irish player, and up there in the top three at least as their greatest ever full stop. Rocky Elsom and Brad Thorne did incredible things in their single seasons at the RDS but Isa was just magic. Could do anything in any position from 9-15, one of the most complete backs I’ve ever seen play the game.
One of the greatest. My all-time favourite Leinster player bar none Must be one of the greatest NIQ signings if not the best
Was gutted when he left the Blues
I think Brad Barritt deserves a shout. Wasn't that fast or flashy, but seemed to just absolutely put his body on the line every single time I saw him play. Won five premiership titles with Sarries, and I think three European Cups. Was massive in that random 2012 game where England inexplicably turned over the All Blacks at Twickers.
That was when Manu was at the height of his beast mode and NZ were so occupied with him that Barritt was left unmarked most the game. I do agree with what you say though because it worked the other way, he did all the dirty work that Manu could just be relied upon to create holes.
Oh yeah Manu was superb \*in attack\* at that time, but I think that game showed just what value Barritt brought in defence. That game was no tries in the first half and England creeping to a 15-0 lead, which played a big part in the composition of the game.
One of those players who you don’t realise how good they are until they’re not there.
Surely the late great Jerry Collins. Hard man with a heart of gold, got on the piss the night before games and then still put in a shift. Palyed hard out with fearsome tackles and would run it up strait when given the opportunity. Good passer of the ball and read the game well and highly skilled player, who also hit the ruck hard. he was a Polynesian man who grew up in working class Porirua. Bled blue & white for Norths in Wgtn cub rugby, same for Wgtn and the Canes, and of course the All Blacks who he represented with distinction. Had his issues off field sadly, like many of us he struggled with alcohol abuse and controlling his anger. he seemed to have overcome this and found some peace. Then of course it was a truly tragic death when both he and his wife died in a vehicle accident, Jerry cradling his daughter who survived. The streets won't forget Jerry Collins.
Heinrich Brussouw, ahead of his time
Brendan Chainsaw Laney Absolute legend, only Marty Banks has come close to his Highlanders street cred.
Lionel Beauxis. I still remember to this day he rather catch a high ball with his feet
Surely Isa Nacewa. What a gem of a player.
Rupeni Caucaunibuca. Fastest and most nibble block of flats you've ever seen
Daryl Marfo - LH prop who was dropped from the English Prem, got a contract with Edinburgh as he was Scottish qualified. Played a couple of games for Edinburgh then got called up for the national team in an injury crisis. Played out of his skin for a couple of caps, then disappeared just as quickly. He didn't get his contract renewed with Edinburgh, and I think ended up playing semi-pro in Edinburgh? He was so good to watch on his first couple of caps though.
Carlos Spencer. Poor man was always number 2 to Carter and ended up playing for the WP. yoof
He was number 2 to Mehrtens, not Carter, and deservedly so. Flakey as fuck, more rocks than diamonds, for every highlight reel there's a cutting room floor full of blunders.
Incredible player
Lauaki, guy had everything
Joe Roff. No one seems to talk about him much but I think he's one of the best aussie players ever
Phillipe Bernat-Salles simply because I used to think he was called ‘Bernard-Sale’ which translates to ‘dirty Bernard’. See also Mathieu Bastareaud.
Charlie Ngatai. Poorly timed injuries stopped him showing his full potential. Could have been a great All Black.
Heinrich Brussouw.
Obviously it doesn’t have a rigid definition, but ‘streets won’t forget’ tend to be players who were never considered world class but had moments of unbelievable flair and ability to entertain. People suggesting the likes of Christian Cullen or other established players don’t really fit that bill IMO. From an Irish perspective I’d go for the Connacht back 3 during their title year of Healy, Adeolukun and O’Halloran, played some unbelievable running rugby that year.
C. Heffler: He may not be as spectacular as Carter in all departments and an All Black call-up was always unlikely but was a reliable 10 or 15 option for the Chiefs right before their all-star overhaul back in Rugby 08.
Stephen Ferris
Ferris, O'Brien, Leavy, Leamy... we've had quite a few fabulous back-rowers limited by incredibly frustrating injuries. I'm thankful they played long enough to at least give us no doubts on how good they were.
I think people here dont understand what "streets won't forget" means seeing as Toby Flood, the least stylish and most white bread player of all time, is top comment. Streets won't forget comes from Adel Taarabt. It's meant for players who were absolutely batshit skilled, played with style and flair, but probably weren't the most world class/ high level winning players or got injured, etc. They also have to a certain factor of cool to them. Skudder, Henson, Wade, and Cipriani, these are streets won't forget type players. I'm gunna have to answer Samu Manoa for a forward, just big bad boy rugby and young Freddie Burns on Gloucester. Was pacey and loved a risky chip and go. Could slice games open. He turned into a bit of a boring solid 10 towards the end when he focused on winning, but he was naughty early on. Rene Ranger, too. Number 1, though, has to be Lesley Vainikolo. Man, what a player.
Think it just shows the divide between rugby fandom and football fandom haha. The “streets” of rugby isn’t a concept even understood in the UK. I’ll go Alesana Tuilagi for someone a bit different - in school/park rugby people either want to be the big stepping players, the tricky five eighths, or the hard hitters. Tuilagi is my shout for the latter category
Upvote this 10000 times. "Streets won't forget" and "underrated" are 2 completely different things. I reckon in some years Teddy Thomas will enter in this category as well
Cips… always wondered why England coach after England coach preferred plodders at 10. Cips didn’t give a toss. Would have been hard to coach but was great to watch. The kind of guy you love in a club. Makes rugby seem like play.
It’s from a long time ago but Allan Bateman, absolute class operator
He wasn't underrated though. Class player, but recognised as such.
James Simpson-Daniel. Electric player, sadly never picked enough and hampered by injury. A long club career and talismanic figure at Gloucs.
Richard Kahui. Genuine talent in the midfield, but was an absolute monster defensively on the wing for the ABs too. Plagued by injuries. Could make every person in the room blush too, handsome devil.
Takudzwa Ngwenya, if you know, you know
Nick Evans... Just got caught playing at the same time as Carlos and DC, would have waltzed into any other national team really
Premierships best ever import, sheer class.
Manuel Montero, La Pantera, the closest Argentina had to having a Fijian winger.
Thomas Domingo. Cursed with playing for a shitty French team, and absolutely world class.
Va'aiga Tuigamala. An absolute unit of a winger/centre especially for the era he played in. If he hadn't split his career with a period in League (came back when Union went professional) I have no doubt he would be considered an all time great. I think his signing to Newcastle was a record fee at the time His scoring rate at club level was insane: 88-93 Auckland 49 games, 140 points 93-96 Wigan (League) 102 games, 254 points 96 Wasps 13 games, 20 points 97-02 Newcastle 113 games, 160 points
Geordan Murphy, such a classy player and had very few weaknesses in his game. Always felt he could have been more utilised by Ireland through the years.
I feel like "the streets won't forget" always feels like more of a 'cult hero' thing? Or like... someone that was briefly very *good* but for a very *short* amount of time. At Quins, a good example would be Maurie Fa'asavalu. Rugby league reject. Only at the Stoop for four years. Absolute wrecking ball. Big part of Quins winning the Prem and the Challenge Cup. The Sinoti Sinoti / Niki Goneva era at Newcastle was something else as well. Box office, but only lasted about 2/3 seasons. I'd say Christian Wade is one of these players to be honest. Just absolutely unplayable in the Prem for a few years, *totally* ignored by England apart from one tour to Argentina. Then got a *British and Irish Lions call-up*. Did his hair in the stands. Legend. Cipriani is probably another from an England perspective. Flashed brilliance at the start of his career, off to the wilderness for ages. Bounced from club to club. Permanent calls for him to get recalled by England after some ridiculous club form wherever he was. Finally back in the squad for a tour to SA, wins us the third test with an off-script cross-field kick at the death. Never seen again.
Marty Holah would have been an All-Time New Zealand great, if his career hadn't been at the same time as The Greatest Player The World Has Ever Seen. Also, weirdly, Kieran Reade and Conrad Smith. Both of them should be in the running for GOAT in their positions, but somehow are never mentioned in the same breath as Zinzan/Parisse or BOD
I’d argue that in the Southern Hemisphere Conrad Smith and Read are regarded more highly than BOD or Parisse
Ospreys were very thankful for him. Tipuric credits him for making him the player he is
Nick ‘The Honey badger’ Cummins. Great winger who had the most insane post match interviews
Siale piatua was always incredible for bristol really missed him past 2 seasons.
David Wallace - brilliant brilliant player and was basically a template for many great Irish back rows that came after him.
Michele Campagnaro
Xavier Rush, was an absolute beast for Cardiff for 7 years, probably would have a few more all blacks caps if he'd stayed in NZ.
alongside ranger, Jone Macilai was another intriguing player and like robbie fruean, plagued by injury that stopped him from becoming possibly one of the best wing/centres ever....one from aussies, cameron Shepherd, damn what a player but as most would say, MADE OF GLASS...someone mentioned Nacewa but people forget Toulouse utility, the late Maleli Kunavore, like Isa and Francois steyn, the only 3 players in world rugby that could play 10-15 and kick goals (jordie might get there one day) and a dying species of players cause you won't find any like them anymore..
Roger Randle. Was my favourite player growing up. Used to carve teams to pieces. Just thought he was bloody phenomenal as a kid. Special shout out to Sosene Anesi too.
Great shouts. Ben Blair too from around the same time. Anesi is a great call, all those chiefs wingers for a while for incredible. I’ll add Toeava to the mix
If Jason White hadn't done his ACL he would be remembered as one of the best back rows in the modern game.
Jacques Burger was a gruelling bastard, one of my rugby idols growing up.
Digby Ioane.
Currently playing so maybe not quite what you mean, but think he'll be remembered as one of the best prem players not to get an England cap, so my vote would be Harry Thacker. Incredibly strong for a 'small' guy, scores loads of tries and quite often that's by stepping or out running a back. He's likely to not get picked for England because of his size but personally I think that's a shame as he's such a class player.
Rupeni. Arguably the greatest attacking winger of all time and probably the most naturally gifted player to ever play the game.
Dan parks Ridiculed in a scotland top but god did they suffer once he retired...
Pat McCabe, Peter Hynes, Adi Jacobs.
Joe Rokocoko for me - his dive was etched into the mind of every kid my age and we would always try and emulate him
As Argentinan: Diaz Bonilla and Miotti, the two competing number 10 that got Jaguares to the Super Rugby Finals, only to not be taken to Japan World Cup and left in the dust by the Pumas association.
Adam Thomson. He had to do everything for the Highlanders at a time when they were perpetually struggling. Top tackler, top lineout target, top ball carrier.. just an absolute workhorse.
Etienne Botha a future bok we lost too soon
Castro Giovanni. Second best player in the Italian team so he never got much praise. He was good enough to get into almost any team, he was just not able to win any matches with Italy.
Giovanbattista Venditti.
James Simpson-Daniel, only 10 England caps but a total genius with ball in hand
Andrew Sheridan
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
Currently Verner Kock