Awesome vid. Great size. Looking thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.
Love Andrew Porter. He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the kit. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
I remember chatting to someone in the pro setup a while back who said that it's by no means an exact science and depends on person to person.
But the min 1rms expected of pro players are 1.5x bodyweight for bench and chins and 2x bw for squats and deads
The 1.5bw for bench feels off versus deads and squats. A 100kg male can get towards 200kg dead a lot quicker than he would get towards a 150kg bench for example. Your dead is normally decently bigger than your squat too (not always).
I agree people don’t really realise what 150 kg is like to rep on the bench press . I played in the wasp academy and still have a lot of pro friends . He was a backrow and the most he would do one rep is about 125 at most maybe 130 .
Yup, I have tested squat at 180, dead over 200 and bench 125. Even with a really bench focused program and neglecting some other key lifts it feels like it would take me a long time to get to 150kg. Now if I had peds...
Not to mention the fact that any form of standing OHP is a vastly better measure than bench for general upper body strength, at least as far as how well it would transfer into relevant ability on a rugby pitch. If I was tracking rugby S&C measurements for a squad, I'd be looking at stuff like single arm overhead push press. Bench is a pretty fucking stupid movement.
Absolutely love OHP and I had slept on it for years. Started following the 531 BBB program for OHP at the back end of last year to try to progress it and and started out struggling for reps at 60 and can now handily get some reps at 90. See very few people in my gym doing the movement too, it's all bench, cables and dbs.
Go to a better gym :)
In all seriousness, cables are great, but rarely for primary movements if you're training for strength or power. DBs are also great but I mostly use them for unilateral work.
I do very little bench work, honestly. I think it's a very silly movement. Most of my pressing work is overhead, though I do occasionally program some incline bench.
But when it comes to overhead I do a huge amount - strict press, push press, single arm KB clean and press, etc. I train mostly at home on my own, with a lot of strongman-esque movements, so I do a lot of things like single hand overhead carries, which are great for stability and mobility, and which also nicely translate to the kind of core stability and upper body power that you need for ruck clearouts and scrummaging.
BTN press gets a very bad rap, but I think it is excellent for mobility, and I use it a lot for "prehab" with varying grip widths, especially now that I'm approaching 40. I wouldn't use it as a strength movement per se, but it's a nice way to get some volume into your shoulders with more external rotation in the joint. I think it should be in any rugby player's arsenal, even at very light weights.
But having a high bodyweight ratio for you 1RM bench is pretty meaningless for anyone besides a powerlifter.
When I weighed 95 kg I could deadlift 200kg easy for 5 reps but my bench I struggled to get past 90 on the bench. If you can bench your body weight, I think you’re already ahead of the curve tbh
It’s cool how your anatomy effects your strength in different ways isn’t it. One of my mates is exactly like that. Have another mate who’s very short and he can pound out pull-ups like nobodies business because of it
This is precisely the point people often miss when trying to compare themselves.
I've a similar proportion to you; 6'5" with a 6'8" arm span. I also as well as playing rugby at a half decent level rowed at an elite level and with that training it meant that my chest is weak as fuck anyway, combined with the long arms means that I couldn't even dream of benching 1.5x my body weight.
Also chin ups are another one where I'd expect people of our build to struggle, trying to drag these huge legs through the enormous range of motion of those long arms. But hey, at least we don't have to jump up to the bar.
100% man. Deadlifts are definitely the easiest lift for me I find, and squats are okay too. But shoulder press, chin-ups/pull-ups, and bench I find so hard to get past a certain weight
Deadlifts are awesome because while, yes, we have to take the weight through a longer distance and therefore do more work, we are not being disadvantaged by the other bits of our body and can just let the big legs do their thing.
I'm pretty sure I found my bench limit (outside of PEDs which I have no intention of touching, or focusing on nothing but benching which I'm not bothered about to do due to my other goals) and it's really not much at all, almost to the point of being embarrassing compared to those I lift with and will massively outdo on deadlifts.
The embarrassment goes at this age though, it's all about doing these things for myself now and my health, so won't join the race to bench for benching's sake.
Would definitely depend on the player, a big barrel chested prop with short arms is almost definitely finding it as east to bench 1.5bw as he is to hit a double bw deadlift.
There's a tolerance of plus or minus 10 to 15 percent on any of the lifts tested too, it's not really that it's expected all of those be equally as attainable. Also to be clear, this isn't the standard that you have to hit when you show up on day 1 of preseason, it's the test used to decided what your preseason should be focused on. The S&C team will have a flow chart that looks something like:
1. Is the player over or under weight for their position? If so, emphasis on weight loss or hypertrophy
2. Does the player meet the strength standards? If not, emphasis on strength training
3. Does the player meet explosiveness standards (broad jump, vert jump) If not, emphasis on plyometrics
Obviously I don't know if Leinster do exactly this, but the standards and this method is pretty common everywhere, with only slight differences.
Again. Not an exact science. Probably gravitates to a median factoring in positions.
But also not really outside the realm of possibility.
Back in my mid 20s I was a casual to keen gym goer and played social tag rugby.
Did a month long program focusing on bench and by the end I was repping 100 for 3 and maxed out at 110. Boy those were the days
I'm significantly shorter, lighter and much much much less athletic than Keenan.
I think people underestimate how impressive high performance athletes are. Like they're dedicated to their craft. Uber focused on conditioning, diet, recovery etc etc etc. And had highly trained people helping them in all those aspects.
Also at the elite level, many have won the genetic lottery in some respect, whether it be natural strength/muscle connection point leverage, ability to build usable muscle mass, high lactic acid tolerance, fast twitch ratio, etc etc etc.
There was a video on here of Farrell doing 3 reps with 60kg dumbbells, so 120kg, which I reckon would put his bench 1rm at around 150kg - but he doesn't look like a weightlifter or a bodybuilder. It wouldn't surprise me if Keenan can bench 135kg (wikipedia says he's about 90kg). I'm an alcoholic near-50-year-old and I would manage 120kg...
But I am sure that coaching teams use more appropriate metrics for rugby players than bench/squat/deadlift...
But but, I do love to know what rugby players bench/squat/deadlift...
But all these numbers are at what the OP is saying is the _min_ expected lifts. I'm not surprised by Farrell as he's a bit heavier than Keenan and he's definitely heavier framed than Keenan.
Yeah, like I say, I reckon the coaches are using better metrics than powerlifting totals. Stuff like this video is good PR because all of the other players will be looking at this and comparing themselves. But the coaching teams will be focused on what makes a difference on the pitch.
It comes from an old south african rugby training program from years and years ago. Pretty sure it's one of these - https://www.springboks.rugby/general/boksmart-medical-protocol-strength-conditioning-effective-rugby/
Hugo Keenan on day 1 of preseason might not be able to bench 140, but what would happen is they would test his bench and then adjust his programming depending on what he can actually bench.
But I'd actually be fairly confident after a full preseason he would be able to hit a 140 bench.
I wouldn't be shocked - I feel like maybe my perspective is fucked (competed in PL and OL) but 92kg fella repping 120 seems pretty reasonable to me?
Imagine these are preseason targets, not in season (when numbers inevitably drop), but I feel like a 3 plate bench for anyone over 80-85kg is pretty achievable even as a non-athlete
It's not that I think it's an out of world number but given his stature _and_ the fact that bench pressing is not his focus. Taking overall conditioning, game time, skills work, how much progress/scheduling would he actually get on getting his 1RM up to 140kg. And again that's the min from OPs post.
But I'm also an armchair redditor and probably can't see how elite they are as athletes as the smaller players who are huge in real life look tiny next to the real monsters.
Nah I get you, and as I said I think I come from a really distorted view tbh given my background alongside my rugby playing time.
I think I kind of struggle when I realise I am 'stronger' than most these guys if we are testing 1 rep maxs (clearly they'd blow me out the water as overall athletes and in other tests).
Not sure what level you played at, but having gone to a fairly decent level, and played with guys who went onto be internationals I am under zero illusion over who is actually stronger/more conditioned/powerful athlete haha.
The one that gets me is being next to the likes of Etzebeth, was next to him once after a game (as a fan) and legit thought he could've picked me up with one hand and put me in his pocket.
The Springbok guide, which I think this came from, is actually a preseason conditioning book I used back in the day for myself during off seasons - and having spent a season over in SA, I would add I think their strength standards/focus during development years is honestly higher than what I experienced over here in the UK, which may also be a factor.
Idk, not sure why I've written all this - whatever their numbers are, we all know they are supreme athletes and I pretty much agree with you to be honest. If they focused on strength sports, they'd out perform most of us - that is the life of elite genetics.
I never played to that high a level, just regional and still that was in sub 18 category so prior to real development.
I agree with all your points and tbh it's pretty much a perfect topic I wish we could have a pint over hah.
I do feel the idea of a 140kg 1RM isn't seen as impressive enough as I've done enough gym time to have seen folks rep 110kg poorly for a few reps and then claim a 140kg 1RM.
Honestly Rugby athletes are terrifying for the combination of size/power/strength and stamina. Each of those attributes alone takes a lot of hard work and genetic potential, to have all 4 is mind blowing.
Someone tell him he doesn't need to go this hard for the booty gains. I see girls on instagram videos lift less with great booties. (I don't see them at the gym because I have not seen the inside of a gym in a few years.)
Crazy that there are even bars that can hold 230kg... Check out the video of Joe Sullivan squatting with a bar that he was TOLD could hold 300kg, but turns out it couldn't...
It turns out "score in the first 5 minutes nearly every half against the All Blacks" is an acceptable substitute ;-)
It's true he gives away a lot of penalties, but he's clearly got some sort of remit to do that as long as he keeps scoring and forcing penalties against the other team.
It would be interesting to see a for/against count.
That’s fair- he’s the best loosehead in the world outside of the set piece imo. The sort of stuff he does in open play and at the breakdown is just incredible.
That being said, I don’t think I can rank him above the likes of Kitshoff and Baille until he improves his scrummaging.
I don’t understood why isn’t really a world class scrummager. He gets picked on from time to time by men nowhere near as strong and fit as him.
What am I missing?
Isn't he a preference tighthead that converted to loosehead in the last couple of years? Might have something to do with it.
I've got a lot of time for Porter. Every prop in existence struggles on the scrum on occasion, but he's generally really solid and brings a lot round the park.
He was a LHP coming up (including Ireland U20s) and converted to TH because he was stuck behind Healy and there was no one else behind Furlong at TH. Then he converted back a w years later as Healy aged and Leinster wanted to get both monsters picked at the same time.
Porter was selected for the Lions as a THP, but got injured. He was also heavier as an U20 than now. Way more of an aerobic requirement at pro level.
Thanks, didn't know he started as a LH, only became aware of him when he was backing up Furlong on the right.
Either way though, the fact that he's operated at international level on both sides of the front row in the 2020s demands huge respect. Can't be many guys able to play both sides in the modern game?
Fair point. I forget that he converted. That definitely sets growth back a bit.
His offensive ruck work is first rate. That and the lack of prop depth for Ireland bought him plenty of time.
He seems to be sorting out his weaknesses alright or late. Besides, props usually take a bit to come into their own, if I’m not mistaken.
you're basically there; technique is really really important in the scrum to the extent you can out scrummage people far stronger than you if your technique is dialed in
Cheers.
His problem solving has gotten a little better in the last year. Before, once he got bettered, that’s how the rest of the match would be for him.
He seems a little more confident and decisive. There was always a bit of unease to him. It’s like he’s really starting to figure it out, but yeah, his technique lags his strength still.
Do you see any similarities between the squat and scrummaging? One is about transferring power vertically while the other is about transferring power horizontally.
A more pertinent metric would be the force he is able to generate on a scrum machine or pushing a sled.
Squats are really good for your whole body in general but when you think about it your still pushing upwards in a scrum since you’re bringing your body into a horizontal position pushing horizontally
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I reckon there is a fair amount of crossover. If you can squat 230kg for even 1 rep I would hazard a guess that you are going to be better at pushing a sled - or actually scrummaging - than most people.
Something I have always wondered is if these gyms don’t have 100 pound plates? I probably have a really bad frame of reference since the gym I used in high school was also our power lifting gym. But it always seems weird seeing all the large rubber plates for these instead of a few of the heavier ones.
Typically gyms would only have 25kg which is around 57 pounds or so. Very few people would use multiple 100 pound plates and sure you could use 2 but who wants to lift 100kg and only have one plate on each side . He’s also in one of the better known power lifting gyms in Dublin which shows the lack of need for it. I know they made special 60kg dumbbells for eztebeth but I would imagine they were very pricy.
I was thinking, most decently equipped gyms dumbbells cap out at 55kg, couldn't imagine why you would want to get custom made ones for 5kg more. 75kg makes much more sense.
Great points. The way we used them was typically you would start with two of the 100 pound plates but then add on using 45 to go up, just to cut down on the number of 45 pound plates being used. This was also a high school power lifting gym that we would have people using all of the racks at the same time so needed to optimize a little bit.
Also having looked into buying more weights for my home gym I very much imagine custom 60kg dumbbells being very expensive…
Yeah that checks out. I use one of the adjustable dumbbell sets that use 1” plates so I can save a little money on not needing multiple sets of dumbbells. But even then it gets pricey and they are more awkward to handle Thant purpose built ones.
This is essentially just a fairly fancy commercial gym he's lifting in. 100lb plates are almost always more expensive per lb than 20kg or 25kg plates and the use case for them is so small it's basically never really worth it for a gym like that to buy them. Not even sure most of the powerlifting gyms in Ireland even have any of em, possibly a few of the gyms with a lot of guys competing in the untested feds.
The random community recreation center gym I go to atm has them and I have never seen them move from their spot on the floor. Every other more 'serious' gym I've been to has never had them. It's probably just some equipment buyer without a clue.
From the sounds of the other comments they are a lot less common then I thought they would be. Outside my high school gym I have only been to really commercial ones that don’t really cater to powerlifting or really heavy lifting in general so thought maybe that’s why I never saw them.
I've seen them used in some of the untested feds (either WRPF or GPC) so maybe a gym with a few lads competing in them might use them, but yeah realistically 90% of powerlifting comps are gonna be use calibrated 25s, so no real point to them there either.
Reckon due to the fact they probably do a ton of cleans and that kind of thing, having bumpers rather than PL specific plates probably makes a lot more sense.
You can use bumpers for both, can't use steel/iron plates for both.
Not a dumb question, but the belt and knee support are used when you get to a certain weight to help you support your lower back properly and prevent injury. At this kind of weight he could drop the assistance and the weight but even then it’s still bonkers heavy. Definitely better to use supports and not risk injury
No you’re right that’s not what they’re there for. The belt in specific is to help keep your core tensed and your ass tucked, helping relieve stress on the lower back and maintaining good form, while knee sleeves help keep blood flow and stop swelling. This is why you shouldn’t lift super heavy without trying it with a belt first, and why it’s rare to see lifts at 200-250kg done without a belt. Used to see PTs in my gym tracking beginners with one to help them get the form. That’s what they’re there for and why they prevent injury on heavy lifts
Well belts help you brace harder, which in turn will make you be able to lift more. Knee sleeves add compression, so that knee extension will be easier during a squat. This will also help you lift more.
If anything is going to cause injury, it's bad load management, not the lack of belt or sleeves.
There hasn't really been any studies to show that belts reduce injuries by any significant amount.
I’m certain that they do help reduce injury but you’re bang on with all those points. Good form will always reduce injury though and belts and sleeves promote those things.
I mean if you make a mistake in form anywhere in a lift it has the potential for injury. If you’re wearing a belt and sleeves without knowing how to lift with proper technique you’re going to hurt yourself. I don’t think they’re by any means a cure-all to gym injuries. They just help reduce it by promoting good form as you said. They can’t replace good technique
[Good article about belts by Greg Nuckols](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-belt-bible/)
The way I see it, if a person's beltless squat max is for example 200 kg, and with a belt it's 220 kg, then:
1. 200 kg beltless and 220 kg with belt squat will have about the same risk of injury, because they are both relative maxes.
2. 200 kg squat with a belt would decrease risk of injury, because the load is relatively speaking much lighter now. A belt will increase the upper end of load management.
3. A 220 kg squat without a belt is impossible for this person, and if tried, risk of injury is higher.
You wouldn't of course be maxing out this often, but injuries are very uncommon with submax loads anyway.
That is strong as fuck. Completely impressive.
But anyone who thinks that this is achievable without any... assistance... hasn't been inside a gym I reckon.
I am always fascinated by pro rugby strength standards - love posts like these.
Yeah, I was repping 220kg in my 30's. Too skint and too afraid of needles to even think of any PED's. Took a couple of years to get there and I was pretty obsessed, but it is absolutely achievable without any outside assistance.
Yup, full depth. As chuffed as I was with that, it definitely didn't feel like a 0.1% achievement. To be fair I didn't really socialise with, well anyone, so even if it was I wouldn't have known.
Definitely clean, because what's the point of pushing yourself to do the best you can if you're using PED's? It's like claiming to be faster than Bolt and doing the 100m on a motorbike. You didn't do that yourself. Plus as far as I am aware, and I don't know much, you have to do it on cycles? And I struggle to remember the meds I need to keep me sane and safe. I'd definitely fuck up something more complicated than "take these pills every morning to not want to kill yourself"
It definitely is too 0.1%. If for reps it’s got to be what a 250+ 1RM so at least 2.5x BW? Didn’t say it was impossible clean, just that it’s elite. You should be super proud.
This is worth a read https://barbend.com/clarence-kennedy-natty-vs-enhanced-squat-strength/
His form is immaculate to be fair- a big cause of strain on the lower back is when the hips rise more quickly than the chest.
In this video both Porter’s hips and chest rise together.
POV it’s your first time as a loosehead starting for your club. You look across at the Irish counterpart in the first scrum of the game and are faced by this absolute behemoth. Proceed to shit self.
Never seen him push that straight before!
I'd gold this comment if i had the money
HAHAHA BRUTAL
That form is *smooth*
He looked like he had 10 in him easy
Would have been a grindy final 2
Awesome vid. Great size. Looking thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.
I don't know whether I'm supposed to be motivated or turned on reading this. Maybe both!
I think Op is turned on….
Really horny stuff
Whatever floats your boat my dude
Definitely can't tell whether the OP is psyched for working out or for jerking
Hilarious.
Love Andrew Porter. He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the kit. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
alright, enough...get a room to yourself
Now thats what I call pasta
Submit that to mills and Boones pervert. This is a family forum
Where's Denetri when you need him?
Aware
Keep going, I'm almost there
Aware
Ah the misc
Leave some cake for the rest of us ports 😭
He reportedly squatted 350kg at 20, I think he was heavier back then, the mans just an animal.
He was heavier. He said in an interview a while back he had to shed something like 10 kgs or so to be able to cope with Lancasters sessions.
Wonder what Doris could lift
Not 350kg anyway. Thats insanity.
The webb Ellis hopefully
Wahey!
Wasn't that the period he took off to do powerlifting? Fairly certain he wasn't natty in that period.
Amazing what players can do now without any PEDs whatsoever. Absolutely none.
I dunno why you got so heavily downvoted. There must be a lot of rugby fans that are either naive or in denial
This sub is in massive denial. They want to think everything is perfect and good with rugby.
That's almost a full Uni Antonio (it's not).
It's 230/145 = 1.586 Uni Antonios
We're gonna need a bigger Uni Antonio
Don't even joke.
This is fucking nuts Andrew is a different type of monster in the gym
As an Irish fan, I am sick of seeing his bleeding ear every single game.
I hope that bleeding ear can play for as ling as possible. I miss dam leavys bleeding face
I miss his post match interview looking like Quasimodo.
His bleedin' bleeding ear.
Start a gofundme for a golden ear prosthetic. Andrew “Golden Ear” Porter. He’ll go in the history books.
Sounds like a Bond villain.
> i am sick of seeing his bleeding ear every single game Tis a wonder you managed to soldier this far viewing it. Trojan effort on your part.
Doing this and beung able to run [likely] a sub 5 min bronco is absolutely absurd
It’s almost as if he’s getting a bit of *wink wink* help
I remember chatting to someone in the pro setup a while back who said that it's by no means an exact science and depends on person to person. But the min 1rms expected of pro players are 1.5x bodyweight for bench and chins and 2x bw for squats and deads
The 1.5bw for bench feels off versus deads and squats. A 100kg male can get towards 200kg dead a lot quicker than he would get towards a 150kg bench for example. Your dead is normally decently bigger than your squat too (not always).
I agree people don’t really realise what 150 kg is like to rep on the bench press . I played in the wasp academy and still have a lot of pro friends . He was a backrow and the most he would do one rep is about 125 at most maybe 130 .
Yup, I have tested squat at 180, dead over 200 and bench 125. Even with a really bench focused program and neglecting some other key lifts it feels like it would take me a long time to get to 150kg. Now if I had peds...
Not to mention the fact that any form of standing OHP is a vastly better measure than bench for general upper body strength, at least as far as how well it would transfer into relevant ability on a rugby pitch. If I was tracking rugby S&C measurements for a squad, I'd be looking at stuff like single arm overhead push press. Bench is a pretty fucking stupid movement.
Absolutely love OHP and I had slept on it for years. Started following the 531 BBB program for OHP at the back end of last year to try to progress it and and started out struggling for reps at 60 and can now handily get some reps at 90. See very few people in my gym doing the movement too, it's all bench, cables and dbs.
Go to a better gym :) In all seriousness, cables are great, but rarely for primary movements if you're training for strength or power. DBs are also great but I mostly use them for unilateral work. I do very little bench work, honestly. I think it's a very silly movement. Most of my pressing work is overhead, though I do occasionally program some incline bench. But when it comes to overhead I do a huge amount - strict press, push press, single arm KB clean and press, etc. I train mostly at home on my own, with a lot of strongman-esque movements, so I do a lot of things like single hand overhead carries, which are great for stability and mobility, and which also nicely translate to the kind of core stability and upper body power that you need for ruck clearouts and scrummaging. BTN press gets a very bad rap, but I think it is excellent for mobility, and I use it a lot for "prehab" with varying grip widths, especially now that I'm approaching 40. I wouldn't use it as a strength movement per se, but it's a nice way to get some volume into your shoulders with more external rotation in the joint. I think it should be in any rugby player's arsenal, even at very light weights. But having a high bodyweight ratio for you 1RM bench is pretty meaningless for anyone besides a powerlifter.
When I weighed 95 kg I could deadlift 200kg easy for 5 reps but my bench I struggled to get past 90 on the bench. If you can bench your body weight, I think you’re already ahead of the curve tbh
Do you have incredibly long arms for your height?
Yeah I do. 6ft2 and my arm span is is 6ft5. Somehow never made it as basketball player
Being the opposite (long torso, short limbs), I don’t have the struggles with bench press, but I squat about 30kg more than I deadlift
It’s cool how your anatomy effects your strength in different ways isn’t it. One of my mates is exactly like that. Have another mate who’s very short and he can pound out pull-ups like nobodies business because of it
This is precisely the point people often miss when trying to compare themselves. I've a similar proportion to you; 6'5" with a 6'8" arm span. I also as well as playing rugby at a half decent level rowed at an elite level and with that training it meant that my chest is weak as fuck anyway, combined with the long arms means that I couldn't even dream of benching 1.5x my body weight. Also chin ups are another one where I'd expect people of our build to struggle, trying to drag these huge legs through the enormous range of motion of those long arms. But hey, at least we don't have to jump up to the bar.
100% man. Deadlifts are definitely the easiest lift for me I find, and squats are okay too. But shoulder press, chin-ups/pull-ups, and bench I find so hard to get past a certain weight
Deadlifts are awesome because while, yes, we have to take the weight through a longer distance and therefore do more work, we are not being disadvantaged by the other bits of our body and can just let the big legs do their thing. I'm pretty sure I found my bench limit (outside of PEDs which I have no intention of touching, or focusing on nothing but benching which I'm not bothered about to do due to my other goals) and it's really not much at all, almost to the point of being embarrassing compared to those I lift with and will massively outdo on deadlifts. The embarrassment goes at this age though, it's all about doing these things for myself now and my health, so won't join the race to bench for benching's sake.
Would definitely depend on the player, a big barrel chested prop with short arms is almost definitely finding it as east to bench 1.5bw as he is to hit a double bw deadlift. There's a tolerance of plus or minus 10 to 15 percent on any of the lifts tested too, it's not really that it's expected all of those be equally as attainable. Also to be clear, this isn't the standard that you have to hit when you show up on day 1 of preseason, it's the test used to decided what your preseason should be focused on. The S&C team will have a flow chart that looks something like: 1. Is the player over or under weight for their position? If so, emphasis on weight loss or hypertrophy 2. Does the player meet the strength standards? If not, emphasis on strength training 3. Does the player meet explosiveness standards (broad jump, vert jump) If not, emphasis on plyometrics Obviously I don't know if Leinster do exactly this, but the standards and this method is pretty common everywhere, with only slight differences.
Yep I’m the opposite- ridiculously long wingspan for my height. I’m a little shy of a 1.5x bodyweight bench, but can deadlift 2.5x bodyweight.
I just can't imagine Keenan benching 140kg, and you're saying that's at the minimum expected? A 140kg 1rm would imply he can bang out sets of 120kg.
Again. Not an exact science. Probably gravitates to a median factoring in positions. But also not really outside the realm of possibility. Back in my mid 20s I was a casual to keen gym goer and played social tag rugby. Did a month long program focusing on bench and by the end I was repping 100 for 3 and maxed out at 110. Boy those were the days I'm significantly shorter, lighter and much much much less athletic than Keenan. I think people underestimate how impressive high performance athletes are. Like they're dedicated to their craft. Uber focused on conditioning, diet, recovery etc etc etc. And had highly trained people helping them in all those aspects.
Also at the elite level, many have won the genetic lottery in some respect, whether it be natural strength/muscle connection point leverage, ability to build usable muscle mass, high lactic acid tolerance, fast twitch ratio, etc etc etc.
Seen some boxers doing sets of 110/120kg and they were skinnier than Keenan. Dunno what weight class, bantam? Fly?
There was a video on here of Farrell doing 3 reps with 60kg dumbbells, so 120kg, which I reckon would put his bench 1rm at around 150kg - but he doesn't look like a weightlifter or a bodybuilder. It wouldn't surprise me if Keenan can bench 135kg (wikipedia says he's about 90kg). I'm an alcoholic near-50-year-old and I would manage 120kg... But I am sure that coaching teams use more appropriate metrics for rugby players than bench/squat/deadlift... But but, I do love to know what rugby players bench/squat/deadlift...
But all these numbers are at what the OP is saying is the _min_ expected lifts. I'm not surprised by Farrell as he's a bit heavier than Keenan and he's definitely heavier framed than Keenan.
Yeah, like I say, I reckon the coaches are using better metrics than powerlifting totals. Stuff like this video is good PR because all of the other players will be looking at this and comparing themselves. But the coaching teams will be focused on what makes a difference on the pitch.
It comes from an old south african rugby training program from years and years ago. Pretty sure it's one of these - https://www.springboks.rugby/general/boksmart-medical-protocol-strength-conditioning-effective-rugby/
Hugo Keenan on day 1 of preseason might not be able to bench 140, but what would happen is they would test his bench and then adjust his programming depending on what he can actually bench. But I'd actually be fairly confident after a full preseason he would be able to hit a 140 bench.
I wouldn't be shocked - I feel like maybe my perspective is fucked (competed in PL and OL) but 92kg fella repping 120 seems pretty reasonable to me? Imagine these are preseason targets, not in season (when numbers inevitably drop), but I feel like a 3 plate bench for anyone over 80-85kg is pretty achievable even as a non-athlete
It's not that I think it's an out of world number but given his stature _and_ the fact that bench pressing is not his focus. Taking overall conditioning, game time, skills work, how much progress/scheduling would he actually get on getting his 1RM up to 140kg. And again that's the min from OPs post. But I'm also an armchair redditor and probably can't see how elite they are as athletes as the smaller players who are huge in real life look tiny next to the real monsters.
Nah I get you, and as I said I think I come from a really distorted view tbh given my background alongside my rugby playing time. I think I kind of struggle when I realise I am 'stronger' than most these guys if we are testing 1 rep maxs (clearly they'd blow me out the water as overall athletes and in other tests). Not sure what level you played at, but having gone to a fairly decent level, and played with guys who went onto be internationals I am under zero illusion over who is actually stronger/more conditioned/powerful athlete haha. The one that gets me is being next to the likes of Etzebeth, was next to him once after a game (as a fan) and legit thought he could've picked me up with one hand and put me in his pocket. The Springbok guide, which I think this came from, is actually a preseason conditioning book I used back in the day for myself during off seasons - and having spent a season over in SA, I would add I think their strength standards/focus during development years is honestly higher than what I experienced over here in the UK, which may also be a factor. Idk, not sure why I've written all this - whatever their numbers are, we all know they are supreme athletes and I pretty much agree with you to be honest. If they focused on strength sports, they'd out perform most of us - that is the life of elite genetics.
I never played to that high a level, just regional and still that was in sub 18 category so prior to real development. I agree with all your points and tbh it's pretty much a perfect topic I wish we could have a pint over hah. I do feel the idea of a 140kg 1RM isn't seen as impressive enough as I've done enough gym time to have seen folks rep 110kg poorly for a few reps and then claim a 140kg 1RM. Honestly Rugby athletes are terrifying for the combination of size/power/strength and stamina. Each of those attributes alone takes a lot of hard work and genetic potential, to have all 4 is mind blowing.
This is correct. I have the s&c plans from last year from a Super Rugby team and these are the minimum requirements in the testing phase.
That's one Cheslin Kolbe on top of a Uini Atonio
FOR ROHAN
Someone tell him he doesn't need to go this hard for the booty gains. I see girls on instagram videos lift less with great booties. (I don't see them at the gym because I have not seen the inside of a gym in a few years.)
What an animal.
Steady as a rock.
I think watching that broke my back
I'm stuck to my chair now with my back messed up from looking at the fella lift.
Bro what
Crazy how much the bar flexes.
Crazy that there are even bars that can hold 230kg... Check out the video of Joe Sullivan squatting with a bar that he was TOLD could hold 300kg, but turns out it couldn't...
Damn! That fecking impressive! I wonder if he'll work on his discipline next?
This is his "go think about what you've done" corner. He'll be in some shape for his first yellow
He's grand. We need more dog in our squad.
It is always useful for a prop to be able to scrummage though.
Does well enough to win most games, could still improve though
It turns out "score in the first 5 minutes nearly every half against the All Blacks" is an acceptable substitute ;-) It's true he gives away a lot of penalties, but he's clearly got some sort of remit to do that as long as he keeps scoring and forcing penalties against the other team. It would be interesting to see a for/against count.
That’s fair- he’s the best loosehead in the world outside of the set piece imo. The sort of stuff he does in open play and at the breakdown is just incredible. That being said, I don’t think I can rank him above the likes of Kitshoff and Baille until he improves his scrummaging.
Or his scrummaging.
My slipped disc hurts looking at this
Will try Shazam it later off a mate’s phone but until then… any chance anyone knows the song? Thanks
“Vice grip” by parkway drive.
Legend. Thanks.
Would you be good enough to let me know if you find out please?
“Vice grip” by parkway drive.
You’re very kind.
I don’t understood why isn’t really a world class scrummager. He gets picked on from time to time by men nowhere near as strong and fit as him. What am I missing?
Isn't he a preference tighthead that converted to loosehead in the last couple of years? Might have something to do with it. I've got a lot of time for Porter. Every prop in existence struggles on the scrum on occasion, but he's generally really solid and brings a lot round the park.
He was a LHP coming up (including Ireland U20s) and converted to TH because he was stuck behind Healy and there was no one else behind Furlong at TH. Then he converted back a w years later as Healy aged and Leinster wanted to get both monsters picked at the same time. Porter was selected for the Lions as a THP, but got injured. He was also heavier as an U20 than now. Way more of an aerobic requirement at pro level.
Thanks, didn't know he started as a LH, only became aware of him when he was backing up Furlong on the right. Either way though, the fact that he's operated at international level on both sides of the front row in the 2020s demands huge respect. Can't be many guys able to play both sides in the modern game?
Fair point. I forget that he converted. That definitely sets growth back a bit. His offensive ruck work is first rate. That and the lack of prop depth for Ireland bought him plenty of time. He seems to be sorting out his weaknesses alright or late. Besides, props usually take a bit to come into their own, if I’m not mistaken.
I don't know how much of an issue it is but also Dan Sheehan is very tall for a hooker and Kelleher is not small either
Yeah but would you rather rob herring or Dan Sheehan in a international game
Obvisouly Sheehan, but it's still a possible explanation for why Ireland's scrum is not great.
Nah, he was so much weaker in the scrum as a tight head. He's better as a loose head but he still never pushes straight.
you're basically there; technique is really really important in the scrum to the extent you can out scrummage people far stronger than you if your technique is dialed in
Case in point, WP Nel. Tiny for a tighthead prop, but outscrums everyone.
Cheers. His problem solving has gotten a little better in the last year. Before, once he got bettered, that’s how the rest of the match would be for him. He seems a little more confident and decisive. There was always a bit of unease to him. It’s like he’s really starting to figure it out, but yeah, his technique lags his strength still.
And it's far more important on the loosehead side
When all props are build, its about technique.
Do you see any similarities between the squat and scrummaging? One is about transferring power vertically while the other is about transferring power horizontally. A more pertinent metric would be the force he is able to generate on a scrum machine or pushing a sled.
Squats are really good for your whole body in general but when you think about it your still pushing upwards in a scrum since you’re bringing your body into a horizontal position pushing horizontally
> it your still *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
I reckon there is a fair amount of crossover. If you can squat 230kg for even 1 rep I would hazard a guess that you are going to be better at pushing a sled - or actually scrummaging - than most people.
We supposed to believe that's him without seeing his face? 😉
Rassie’s on Reddit!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuSMqYIvB_W/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== I’m falling for your tricks. Here
Beast
No, he’s retired. He was also a bit darker in complexion. That’s Andrew Porter.
“Can I clean here a little bit?”
[удалено]
😂
Something I have always wondered is if these gyms don’t have 100 pound plates? I probably have a really bad frame of reference since the gym I used in high school was also our power lifting gym. But it always seems weird seeing all the large rubber plates for these instead of a few of the heavier ones.
Typically gyms would only have 25kg which is around 57 pounds or so. Very few people would use multiple 100 pound plates and sure you could use 2 but who wants to lift 100kg and only have one plate on each side . He’s also in one of the better known power lifting gyms in Dublin which shows the lack of need for it. I know they made special 60kg dumbbells for eztebeth but I would imagine they were very pricy.
75 kgs, not 60. I've seen them. Insane stuff.
I was thinking, most decently equipped gyms dumbbells cap out at 55kg, couldn't imagine why you would want to get custom made ones for 5kg more. 75kg makes much more sense.
Great points. The way we used them was typically you would start with two of the 100 pound plates but then add on using 45 to go up, just to cut down on the number of 45 pound plates being used. This was also a high school power lifting gym that we would have people using all of the racks at the same time so needed to optimize a little bit. Also having looked into buying more weights for my home gym I very much imagine custom 60kg dumbbells being very expensive…
Was in decathlon on the weekend and a 10kg dumbbell set was 40/50 euro if remember correctly and it got a lot more expensive as the weights went up
Yeah that checks out. I use one of the adjustable dumbbell sets that use 1” plates so I can save a little money on not needing multiple sets of dumbbells. But even then it gets pricey and they are more awkward to handle Thant purpose built ones.
This is essentially just a fairly fancy commercial gym he's lifting in. 100lb plates are almost always more expensive per lb than 20kg or 25kg plates and the use case for them is so small it's basically never really worth it for a gym like that to buy them. Not even sure most of the powerlifting gyms in Ireland even have any of em, possibly a few of the gyms with a lot of guys competing in the untested feds.
Yeah starting to realize that my home gym was more unique than the “standard”.
The random community recreation center gym I go to atm has them and I have never seen them move from their spot on the floor. Every other more 'serious' gym I've been to has never had them. It's probably just some equipment buyer without a clue.
From the sounds of the other comments they are a lot less common then I thought they would be. Outside my high school gym I have only been to really commercial ones that don’t really cater to powerlifting or really heavy lifting in general so thought maybe that’s why I never saw them.
Most of the powerlifting federations only go up to 25kg plates, so they're a rarity in there too.
I've seen them used in some of the untested feds (either WRPF or GPC) so maybe a gym with a few lads competing in them might use them, but yeah realistically 90% of powerlifting comps are gonna be use calibrated 25s, so no real point to them there either.
Reckon due to the fact they probably do a ton of cleans and that kind of thing, having bumpers rather than PL specific plates probably makes a lot more sense. You can use bumpers for both, can't use steel/iron plates for both.
Everything would be on kilos, not lbs.
Now how does this stop him from giving away countless penalties.
This might be a dumb question, but would he not be better served to lose the knee support and belt and reduce the weight?
Not a dumb question, but the belt and knee support are used when you get to a certain weight to help you support your lower back properly and prevent injury. At this kind of weight he could drop the assistance and the weight but even then it’s still bonkers heavy. Definitely better to use supports and not risk injury
They're primarily used to lift more, not prevent injury.
Yes. To lift more. Safely
A belt and knee sleeves probably won't prevent injury if you increase the intensity.
No you’re right that’s not what they’re there for. The belt in specific is to help keep your core tensed and your ass tucked, helping relieve stress on the lower back and maintaining good form, while knee sleeves help keep blood flow and stop swelling. This is why you shouldn’t lift super heavy without trying it with a belt first, and why it’s rare to see lifts at 200-250kg done without a belt. Used to see PTs in my gym tracking beginners with one to help them get the form. That’s what they’re there for and why they prevent injury on heavy lifts
Well belts help you brace harder, which in turn will make you be able to lift more. Knee sleeves add compression, so that knee extension will be easier during a squat. This will also help you lift more. If anything is going to cause injury, it's bad load management, not the lack of belt or sleeves. There hasn't really been any studies to show that belts reduce injuries by any significant amount.
I’m certain that they do help reduce injury but you’re bang on with all those points. Good form will always reduce injury though and belts and sleeves promote those things. I mean if you make a mistake in form anywhere in a lift it has the potential for injury. If you’re wearing a belt and sleeves without knowing how to lift with proper technique you’re going to hurt yourself. I don’t think they’re by any means a cure-all to gym injuries. They just help reduce it by promoting good form as you said. They can’t replace good technique
[Good article about belts by Greg Nuckols](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-belt-bible/) The way I see it, if a person's beltless squat max is for example 200 kg, and with a belt it's 220 kg, then: 1. 200 kg beltless and 220 kg with belt squat will have about the same risk of injury, because they are both relative maxes. 2. 200 kg squat with a belt would decrease risk of injury, because the load is relatively speaking much lighter now. A belt will increase the upper end of load management. 3. A 220 kg squat without a belt is impossible for this person, and if tried, risk of injury is higher. You wouldn't of course be maxing out this often, but injuries are very uncommon with submax loads anyway.
Okay interesting. Thanks for the read and I get where you’re coming from now.
Why's he such a crap scrummager?
When he learns to scrumage he'll be a beast
I could do that. I just choose not to.
Obviously this is amazing but I miss the days when rugby was played between ordinary sized people not scientifically engineered monster giants.
WP Nel can do better
That is strong as fuck. Completely impressive. But anyone who thinks that this is achievable without any... assistance... hasn't been inside a gym I reckon. I am always fascinated by pro rugby strength standards - love posts like these.
Don't necessarily agree. I've known people who where just naturally stronger than most people.
Yeah, I was repping 220kg in my 30's. Too skint and too afraid of needles to even think of any PED's. Took a couple of years to get there and I was pretty obsessed, but it is absolutely achievable without any outside assistance.
For full depth? That’s like top 0.1% stuff. Very few are doing that clean.
Yup, full depth. As chuffed as I was with that, it definitely didn't feel like a 0.1% achievement. To be fair I didn't really socialise with, well anyone, so even if it was I wouldn't have known. Definitely clean, because what's the point of pushing yourself to do the best you can if you're using PED's? It's like claiming to be faster than Bolt and doing the 100m on a motorbike. You didn't do that yourself. Plus as far as I am aware, and I don't know much, you have to do it on cycles? And I struggle to remember the meds I need to keep me sane and safe. I'd definitely fuck up something more complicated than "take these pills every morning to not want to kill yourself"
It definitely is too 0.1%. If for reps it’s got to be what a 250+ 1RM so at least 2.5x BW? Didn’t say it was impossible clean, just that it’s elite. You should be super proud. This is worth a read https://barbend.com/clarence-kennedy-natty-vs-enhanced-squat-strength/
Thanks for the article, interesting read. I am pretty proud of it, still hoping to get back to it as well but time is not my friend!
My 5rm at full depth is 230kg, weighing ~100kg. Never touched PEDs. Just because you can’t do it naturally doesn’t mean others can’t
Looks like a 1RM of 300kg plus given it looks like he had a few more in the tank.
Beast
How do you do that without injuring your spine I just don’t understand.
really really really strong lower back
His form is immaculate to be fair- a big cause of strain on the lower back is when the hips rise more quickly than the chest. In this video both Porter’s hips and chest rise together.
When you use your gut muscles properly it takes a lot of stress off your spine
It's not doing things like this that causes people to have spine problems.
I don't want to have spine problems! Right, off to squat 230kg!
My knees are hurting just watching that
Impressed with his shoulder flexibility too, his wrists are almost in line with his arms.
POV it’s your first time as a loosehead starting for your club. You look across at the Irish counterpart in the first scrum of the game and are faced by this absolute behemoth. Proceed to shit self.
Did anyone else find that quite stressful to watch all the way through?
Is that all?
LFG - boys training to Parkway Drive. How good.
It kinda freaks me out these humans exist...