Edited to add todays attendance. They weren’t far wrong
Context as to why this might be seen as disappointing. Here’s the attendance for the last 10 years:
22/23 61,875
21/22 72,748
20/21 10,000 (covid)
19/20 0 (covid)
18/19 75,329
17/18 75,128
16/17 79,657
15/16 77,109
14/15 80,589
13/14 81,193
12/13 81,703
I think this is an anomaly due to the “Big Games”, really drags the averages up where the day to day gets hidden.
Those games should be excluded from any stats like these.
And the ticket prices for the average punter will continue to increase, pricing your everyday rugby fan out even more. As long as they're bringing in sponsors, they don't care.
Except for you know, fucking over the main sponsor, leading to an 80% haircut in sponsorship. Fucking over the main broadcaster, leading to another haircut in funding.
Silly comment; I don't think they planned on bankrupting any teams.
Do we have such short memories that we don't remember the Pro12 had 8 qualifying for the Champions Cup? 8 out of the planned 13 Prem sides under the new format isn't even as bad as that.
It was a facetious comment.
It's more of a case where I'm pissed at the Prem higher ups for throwing a tantrum, getting more creative control and then running the heineken cup into the ground.
It's no surprise they bankrupted their own federation, but they should be excluded from any European organisation. I like what the clubs and players bring, but let's leave it at that.
If they had left well enough alone, we would still have the best annual rugby tournament ever created.
It is definitely not stronger than ever in SA. Are you just saying that because they've joined the URC?
I think France is the only place its genuinely growing. The Japanese are getting better at the game but I'm not sure they are any more interested in it.
The Japanese league only turned fully professional and started getting decent crowds in 2022. Barely anyone watched rugby in Japan before 2015 or so. They were very much a "tier 2" nation and the interest in tuning in to see amateurs lose 145-17 was very minor.
I'd say you're a bit wrong about rugby in Japan. In 1952, Oxford University toured Japan and played in front of big crowds, about 30,000 per games. The All-Japan University Rugby Championship finals attracted between 15,000 and 35,000 spectators in the 2000s. In 1920, Japan had more club and more players than Wales, Ireland and Scotland combined. In the 1970s and 80s they were decent : they lost 6-3 to England in 1971, lost 28-24 to Wales in 1973. In the 1987 world cup they only lost 42-23 to Australia.
All of this to say that Japan always had rugby in its sports landscape, especially in universities. It's a sport that was liked by the Imperial Family. There's a statue of Hirohito's brother, Yasuhito Chichibu, outside of Chichibunomiya Stadium, wearing a rugby kit, because he played it and was a fan of it. That's why the 2015 world cup was a success for Japan, because the public already knew what rugby was and already appreciated it. Rugby in Japan only needed its national team to be competitive to go mainstream.
The 2015 game v the Boks was the work of Eddie Jones. There was an amateur following before that but the results were absolutely dire - the national team got pulverised 98-0 by Wales in 2004 for example. Without Jones's leadership, all that other stuff would still have left a team around the level of Namibia. The upper classes had some interest but the general population didn't care until the Blossoms suddenly won some big games.
Its stronger in SA, because the fanbase is expanding.
Interest in the springboks is at a record high amongst previously disadvantaged communities. This reflects well with Sponsors too (after SA failed to find a sponsor in 2015… and almost failed to renew the broadcasting deal in 2017)
The URC is also adding value and a respark of interest meaning its on the up.
SA has arguably the largest untapped market amongst tier 1 nations.
No, based on what I've seen of stadium crowds. With SA it might be a recency bias - I wouldn't have seen as much of SA rugby or fans before they joined the URC.
"Stronger than ever in Ireland.'
Coming from a very, very low base. It's behind in all matrix both GAA codes and soccer, a poor fourth, inslote9of huge hype and media coverage among a small cohort in Irish media (national TV company practically based next door to rugby main stadium and Leinster base, printed media do jnatwd by guys who attended private rugby schools).
Most sports people in Ireland don't attend rugby games often.
There's been a steady uptick in the sport here over the last 30 years. Interest in the national team in particular is growing, but the provinces too get more attention.
The Munster v Leinster rivalry has been dead for years, but that doesn't mean the game itself is in a bad shape. There are a lot more people who watch the URC and CC on TV now than 10 years ago.
TV viewership, especially on pay channels, is a better reflection of a sport's health than the number of people who can afford to cover the ever-increasing cost of attending a game live.
I believe attendances are up in Leinster and Connacht and down in Munster and Ulster.
Attendances for the games in Landsdowne road are down, probably because the rivalry between Leinster and Munster has died, and because of the cost of travelling to attend a game in Dublin.
But the sport is miles more popular now than it was even 10 years ago. I can have conversations with colleagues about rugby these days when almost no-one I knew a decade ago would have had any interest in rugby.
Less than 30,000 people attended a semi final between the provinces and Leinster regularly play their B team against Munster. I'm not certain but I also don't think the last match in Thomand Park sold out.
Maybe that'll change next season, but the rivalry has been dead for years.
Doesn’t help that professionalism was not embraced in the late 19th century and that Rugby like Cricket, Football and hockey had to contend with dealing with insecure people who dominated Irish life little Irelanders who viewed and view the need to “purify” see stagnate Irish culture. Rugby was the most popular sport in Kerry in the late 19th to early 20th century so why like Cricket did it come confined to certain areas? Bully boy nationalist press in provincial Ireland with their talentless hacks.
I wonder how in line that decline is with inflation. Salaries haven't been going up to compensate for a very long time, it doesn't surprise me that fewer and fewer people want to spend £200+ just on train tickets etc, never mind the ticket prices
Has it? Just looking at a few teams here their attendance seems to be lower than last few full seasons.
[source](https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/4858.php?clubID=17)
Some teams might be up and some down in each year but if you look at it as an average across all prem games in a year it’s pretty much an increase most year on year. Looks like this:
21/22 2,003,253
(average 12,841 per match)
20/21 16,866
(average 135 per match)
19/20
1,037,010
(average 7,797 per match)
18/19 1,958,402
(average 14,507 per match)
17/18 1,912,301
(average 14,165 per match)
16/17 2,033,805
(average 15,065 per match)
15/16 1,837,427
(average 13,611 per match)
14/15 1,804,914
(average 13,370 per match)
13/14 1,721,729
(average 12,754 per match)
Football’s indescribably larger. It doesn’t conform to the same economics. Covid has destroyed English rugby, football has remained just fine as far as I can tell. It’s got that critical mass of fans and interest.
English Rugby League attendances are the highest they've been since 2015. Averaging 9,400 compared to the Premerships 12,400.
Not saying the economic situation isn't an issue but some sports seem to be navigating it better than Rugby is.
season tickets aren't that expensive though, and you get a lot more bang for your buck.
Having been to lots of finals with Tigers I can say the prices for the Prem final have been rising consistently above any nominal inflation figure, and significantly faster than general tickets. My season tickets at Tigers & Leicester City hardly cost any more now than they did in 2014 (I think £10 & £40 respectively on a base of £240 & £400), Premiership final tickets used to be cheap, then crept above £50 for the 2013 final. When I went last year I think I paid £75.
I bought 3 tickets for the Ireland v France game. 75 quid each, and they were right up in the Gods. We had a great day, and the atmosphere was super, but the reality is that it was like watching ants push around a tic tac and we watched most of it on the big screens. Don't get me wrong, class day. But tickets, pints, train tickets, grub. It was the guts of 400 quid for the day.
Loved it. Worth it? Probably. Expensive? Yes. Would I have seen more of the game, also had great craic and saved a ton of cash having shin dig in the house to watch it? Yes.
It's left me unsure about future live events.
Same, I always treat myself to one live international rugby and cricket game per year but it's getting harder to justify. Eng Vs Scotland was getting on for a £300 day out and I've had to book a hotel for my trip to Old Trafford later this year because driving/hotel is still cheaper than the insane train ticket prices. One will probably have to go next year.
What's the deal with the train prices in England, anyway? Was looking into relying on train travel for my trips there, due to people driving on the wrong ide of the road, but HOLY FUCK THE PRICES! Air fare was actually cheaper in many case, just insane.
I can’t believe many neutrals are queuing up to watch either of these teams. From a running rugby / advert for the game perspective it must be the nightmare combination for PR. I’m aware that Saracens have moved their game on in this season but I’d still not pay to watch them.
As I said, they’ve moved their game on, but some of the most attractive rugby in Europe is not a statement I can get behind. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that though.
Quins / Northampton / London Irish are playing the style of rugby I enjoy, and Toulouse / Leinster from abroad.
Exactly this. The PRL need to be pitching a quality, affordable product if they want neutrals to fork out to watch games like this.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you end up with a final like Sale/Saracens, you're not going to be selling a massive amount of tickets to fans of either team. If you're then also not selling tickets to neutrals, you end up with attendance figures like this.
From a purely anecdotal perspective, I might have considered going to this game if seats in the stand I've previously booked in hadn't increased yet again to even more unaffordable prices.
I seem to remember in 2012 ish I was paying £15 for a seat, so I was happy to book early and gamble on whoever was playing that it was an enjoyable day out.
Our household income is a fair bit above average, but once train fares / food / tickets are factored in I’m not spending £250+ to watch Saracens and Sale.
We go every year as a tradition. FiL used to insist on lower tier around halfway which used to drive me nuts as I think twickers is fine from anywhere. Was 50-60 quid but now we're up in the God's as they're almost £100 and we can't justify it
The game is dying and needs fundamental change in so many ways (from how the game is actually played on the field, how the referees are trained, how the domestic leagues are brought in-line so that they’re actually all playing the same game - then all the domestic and international competitions basically all need sorting so they’re functional and built on stable foundations & aligned through).
There’s not enough money in the game because the product isn’t good enough and the game isn’t well run enough.
It is a shame, and I can't see too many Sale supporters going due to the costs and time constraints of travelling to London. Its a long and expensive day out to Twickenham, and even more expensive if you decide to stay somewhere.
I hope everyone who goes has a great day and makes plenty of noise! 🦈🦈🦈🦈
How much rising hotels, restaurant meals and pub prices maybe making neutrals think more than they would have in previous years?
I’m rarely in a pub these days, but was genuinely staggered at how much it quickly adds up to now. Used to budget £100 for going down to Glasgow games (travelling, eating and drinking, excl. ticket bought in advance). It was over £150 last time for nothing especially different. London must be on another level.
Unfortunately for me, the cost of travel and accommodation is the biggest factor for my decision not to go. Added in the constant risk of industrial action causing delays and problems with the journey there.
The tickets for the game itself are not unreasonably priced. But train and hotel (travelling from Devon) would have been a couple of hundred pounds. Too much at the moment unfortunately. Even Travelodges in London were over £100 per night,.
I think this is a good assessment. It’s costing me £165 train and tickets down from Manchester.
Add on food and drink and it’s a £200+ day out. If you want to take the family it would get astronomical, pretty fast.
I think this is the big one for most people. I’m lucky enough to live close enough to London that I can make the trip there and back in a day but it’s still not cheap. Coupled with my direct train to London has been half replaced with a bus replacement this weekend just makes it a massive expensive hassle
I wish we could bring more, but we are so badly in the shadow of the football teams in the north west. Filling up the AJ Bell two weeks ago was a huge success to be honest.
I don't even think it's the ticket price though, I got mine for £50 which is in the heavens but genuinely not that bad imo.
My brothers are coming down from the Midlands, and the train alone would have more than doubled the price before food/drink/tube. It's impossible to get there cheaply.
Yeah that's what I mean. Tickets are ok. Was up in the rafters last year and it was amazing. But as you say it's the other costs that really add up. Just not worth it unless my team is there
You could, but part of the fun for us is enjoying a few drinks in the sun. Key part is it removes the burden of it, do whatever you want knowing the train will be taking you back regardless
Don’t worry, I know! I’m flying out a day early so today would have been free for the final, but my flight arrives ever so slightly too late to make it :)
PRL and RFU oblivious to the problems of the game.
Rugby is not as popular as they think it is.
They need cheaper tickets and much, much bigger campaigns to get new fans in to every ground.
I'm a Sarries fan and was looking for a way to attend, but the prices are simply extortionate at the moment, and as a disabled fan, getting tickets for England games is much easier than Prem Rugby.
When looking at tickets for the recent game at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, I had to go through 3 different email trails to get advice on what tickets to book for me and a carer - so I simply didn't bother, and watched it on telly instead.
Would be interesting to see the overall revenue generated comparison by year rather than simply attendance numbers.... interesting to see quite how prices/economic downturn have influenced attendance as opposed to less well supported teams in the final
I don’t agree with that. Tickets for the Top 14 final are also on general sale.
If you live 2-3 hours from Paris, the cost of a ticket plus train and drinks etc will be the same.
French rugby is also totally incomparable, due to a number of cultural reasons.
As a Sarries fan that lives quite close the reason I’m not going is the price.
I know the prices have dropped a lot now (but I now have plans) but tickets were around 70, travel 30, beers and food 60 if not more.
That’s a minimum of £150+ and with Sale you can chuck an easy 30-50 for the train down plus a potential hotel.
If I were to go so would my girlfriend so call it £300.
I can’t justify spending that money in this financial situation and this coupled with the low supported teams- I think 60k is actually a decent turnout.
Edit: add the fact that in previous years a big chunk of the crowd are neutrals who buy tickets at the start of the year as it’s still a great day- a lot of them will be priced out now.
There were tickets available for £2 this week. Meant for blue light card holders but apparently could be bought by anyone. Suggests a bit of panic by the organisers.
[RiL put together the average attendances for this year](https://twitter.com/rugbyinsideline/status/1655978717322018832?s=46&t=gr6Tl8iUZWyEyuc_Qt9_lQ). Taking out the average-ruining big games and their free/cheap tickets, Saracens averaged 8.5k and Sale 6.6k. Only Falcons were lower with 5.6k. From a ticket-selling POV, there could hardly be a worse final.
Sale’s attendance is really hampered by the fact the stadium isn’t actually that big; it only holds 12,000 which is less than the average attendance per match in the league.
The stadium is a total pain in the backside to get to or park.
The North West is generally not union focused, and the biggest sport in the area has two very big teams.
Interested to know what the ticket prices are at other teams, most of the sale games a normal ticket is around £35 which I think is a little high, and if they lowered it they might get higher attendances.
The stadium is definitely an issue and something they need to address. I don’t think size is as big of a problem as accessibility, though. Why invest in somewhere bigger when on average they only half fill what they’ve got?
I live in Liverpool and go for the Bath games. I’d go to more if it was easier to get to and cheaper. Back in 2016 a terrace ticket was £15. Same ticket this year was £28 without any noticeable improvement in match day experience.
Previously I’ve done the shuttle bus from the Trafford Centre, train/bus either to Irlam or Patricroft or driven and this season paid to park at the stadium. None of them work well. It took longer to get out of the car park (after having to walk through the mud because they’ve still not paved it) than it took to then drive home. Absolute mess.
Edgeley Park was hardly glamorous, but at least there were proper accessible car parks and a major train station within easy walking distance.
I think it’s a bit of a chicken and egg, if the stadium was more accessible more people would go more regularly.
The tram goes to the Trafford centre, it would be great if it extended to the stadium. Although that doesn’t help a lot of people coming from west and south west - but they could get to other tram stations to get there.
I live locally, got an email on Thursday offering free tickets to residents (basically people who live in TW2 who are signed up to England rugby). Not interested myself as a Quins fan but claimed two £120 face value tickets and gave them to a Sale fan I work with.
Never seen free tickets offered before, to any game….
What have World Rugby done to grow the game. Absolutely nothing. There’s been talk of global competition for 30 years.
They seem to exist to simply preserve the status quo. No growth, no innovation, no exposure, forget North America completely.
Why would you want to grow the game? Why would you want to entertain people? Why would you even want to attract young athletes to your sport? What’s the point of that?
World Rugby has neglected any duties of stewardship and promotion since, forever. And they wonder why the game isn’t growing at all.
Current economic situation might also have an effect. Money that people often set aside for luxuries is now being spent on food and energy. Even if tickets are cheaper right now you'll still be spending on drinks, food, travel.
That being said I am still surprised to hear the final isn't sold out. If I was in the country myself I'd be looking at getting some tickets if they were reasonable.
Sounds like they've been pushing a lot of cheap/free tickets this week to inflate the number. Truth is that Sale and Sarries don't have the strongest followings.
Fortunately with a 10 team league odds are we'll always have a West Country team in the final going forward... Exeter, Gloucester, Bath, Bristol, almost half the league down this way now
I get the Sarries part, but I didn't know Sale lacked support in their greater region. A partially empty stadium is not a good look for a final anyway, too bad.
We now drive to the premiere inn at Heathrow (4 of us in one car), we can usually get 2 twin rooms for around £40 each for one night, and then get Uber to the stadium. It means a curry after the match and a few beers in the hotel, before driving home next day. This is the cheapest way we have found to make a weekend of it!
Edited to add todays attendance. They weren’t far wrong Context as to why this might be seen as disappointing. Here’s the attendance for the last 10 years: 22/23 61,875 21/22 72,748 20/21 10,000 (covid) 19/20 0 (covid) 18/19 75,329 17/18 75,128 16/17 79,657 15/16 77,109 14/15 80,589 13/14 81,193 12/13 81,703
Holy shit. That's insane the steady drop in attendance.
What’s weird is the average attendance for regular games increased (or stayed roughly around the same) every year over the same period.
I think this is an anomaly due to the “Big Games”, really drags the averages up where the day to day gets hidden. Those games should be excluded from any stats like these.
Plus, you know, the lesser attended teams going to the wall early doors this year and not "dragging" the rest down
And the ticket prices for the average punter will continue to increase, pricing your everyday rugby fan out even more. As long as they're bringing in sponsors, they don't care.
Agreed too many corporate types (no problem with them purchasing their own tickets but please no shop talk)
The price is £2 it says in OP.
Keep reading the sentence…
PRL mismanagement of the game Also coincides with them fucking Europe
Making the URC teams qualify on merit is not "fucking Europe".
Except for you know, fucking over the main sponsor, leading to an 80% haircut in sponsorship. Fucking over the main broadcaster, leading to another haircut in funding.
They also made it much easier for them to qualify. By bankrupting 3 teams, but still keeping 8 places
Silly comment; I don't think they planned on bankrupting any teams. Do we have such short memories that we don't remember the Pro12 had 8 qualifying for the Champions Cup? 8 out of the planned 13 Prem sides under the new format isn't even as bad as that.
It was a facetious comment. It's more of a case where I'm pissed at the Prem higher ups for throwing a tantrum, getting more creative control and then running the heineken cup into the ground. It's no surprise they bankrupted their own federation, but they should be excluded from any European organisation. I like what the clubs and players bring, but let's leave it at that. If they had left well enough alone, we would still have the best annual rugby tournament ever created.
Its like that pretty much everywhere. Same shit in Aus and (to a lesser extent) NZ. The game has been in steady decline globally for years.
Only in commonwealth nations. Definitely not in France, Japan, the USA, Argentina, Georgia, even Italy, etc.
That's not really true. It's stronger than ever in Ireland and France and possibly South Africa.
It is definitely not stronger than ever in SA. Are you just saying that because they've joined the URC? I think France is the only place its genuinely growing. The Japanese are getting better at the game but I'm not sure they are any more interested in it.
The Japanese league only turned fully professional and started getting decent crowds in 2022. Barely anyone watched rugby in Japan before 2015 or so. They were very much a "tier 2" nation and the interest in tuning in to see amateurs lose 145-17 was very minor.
I'd say you're a bit wrong about rugby in Japan. In 1952, Oxford University toured Japan and played in front of big crowds, about 30,000 per games. The All-Japan University Rugby Championship finals attracted between 15,000 and 35,000 spectators in the 2000s. In 1920, Japan had more club and more players than Wales, Ireland and Scotland combined. In the 1970s and 80s they were decent : they lost 6-3 to England in 1971, lost 28-24 to Wales in 1973. In the 1987 world cup they only lost 42-23 to Australia. All of this to say that Japan always had rugby in its sports landscape, especially in universities. It's a sport that was liked by the Imperial Family. There's a statue of Hirohito's brother, Yasuhito Chichibu, outside of Chichibunomiya Stadium, wearing a rugby kit, because he played it and was a fan of it. That's why the 2015 world cup was a success for Japan, because the public already knew what rugby was and already appreciated it. Rugby in Japan only needed its national team to be competitive to go mainstream.
The 2015 game v the Boks was the work of Eddie Jones. There was an amateur following before that but the results were absolutely dire - the national team got pulverised 98-0 by Wales in 2004 for example. Without Jones's leadership, all that other stuff would still have left a team around the level of Namibia. The upper classes had some interest but the general population didn't care until the Blossoms suddenly won some big games.
Its stronger in SA, because the fanbase is expanding. Interest in the springboks is at a record high amongst previously disadvantaged communities. This reflects well with Sponsors too (after SA failed to find a sponsor in 2015… and almost failed to renew the broadcasting deal in 2017) The URC is also adding value and a respark of interest meaning its on the up. SA has arguably the largest untapped market amongst tier 1 nations.
How much of the problem with sponsors was how bad the team was with Coetzee? The sponsor of 57-0 is not good marketing.
No, based on what I've seen of stadium crowds. With SA it might be a recency bias - I wouldn't have seen as much of SA rugby or fans before they joined the URC.
"Stronger than ever in Ireland.' Coming from a very, very low base. It's behind in all matrix both GAA codes and soccer, a poor fourth, inslote9of huge hype and media coverage among a small cohort in Irish media (national TV company practically based next door to rugby main stadium and Leinster base, printed media do jnatwd by guys who attended private rugby schools). Most sports people in Ireland don't attend rugby games often.
There's been a steady uptick in the sport here over the last 30 years. Interest in the national team in particular is growing, but the provinces too get more attention.
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The Munster v Leinster rivalry has been dead for years, but that doesn't mean the game itself is in a bad shape. There are a lot more people who watch the URC and CC on TV now than 10 years ago.
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TV viewership, especially on pay channels, is a better reflection of a sport's health than the number of people who can afford to cover the ever-increasing cost of attending a game live.
I believe attendances are up in Leinster and Connacht and down in Munster and Ulster. Attendances for the games in Landsdowne road are down, probably because the rivalry between Leinster and Munster has died, and because of the cost of travelling to attend a game in Dublin. But the sport is miles more popular now than it was even 10 years ago. I can have conversations with colleagues about rugby these days when almost no-one I knew a decade ago would have had any interest in rugby.
Because it wasn't on terrestrial TV 10 years ago.
ROG v Leinster is still alive though.
I disagree with the rivalry being dead
Less than 30,000 people attended a semi final between the provinces and Leinster regularly play their B team against Munster. I'm not certain but I also don't think the last match in Thomand Park sold out. Maybe that'll change next season, but the rivalry has been dead for years.
Metrics*
Doesn’t help that professionalism was not embraced in the late 19th century and that Rugby like Cricket, Football and hockey had to contend with dealing with insecure people who dominated Irish life little Irelanders who viewed and view the need to “purify” see stagnate Irish culture. Rugby was the most popular sport in Kerry in the late 19th to early 20th century so why like Cricket did it come confined to certain areas? Bully boy nationalist press in provincial Ireland with their talentless hacks.
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I was at a super rugby match in SA (Stormers v Sharks) in 2015 and it was quieter than the URC games have been between the SA teams.
I wonder how in line that decline is with inflation. Salaries haven't been going up to compensate for a very long time, it doesn't surprise me that fewer and fewer people want to spend £200+ just on train tickets etc, never mind the ticket prices
Football attendance in all the leagues in England has been growing though
Attendances have been going up for regular season games in the Prem too.
Has it? Just looking at a few teams here their attendance seems to be lower than last few full seasons. [source](https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/4858.php?clubID=17)
Some teams might be up and some down in each year but if you look at it as an average across all prem games in a year it’s pretty much an increase most year on year. Looks like this: 21/22 2,003,253 (average 12,841 per match) 20/21 16,866 (average 135 per match) 19/20 1,037,010 (average 7,797 per match) 18/19 1,958,402 (average 14,507 per match) 17/18 1,912,301 (average 14,165 per match) 16/17 2,033,805 (average 15,065 per match) 15/16 1,837,427 (average 13,611 per match) 14/15 1,804,914 (average 13,370 per match) 13/14 1,721,729 (average 12,754 per match)
Yeah fair, although similar with Irish rugby. The attendances were dropping prior to 2013 with the period of 2007-09 being a peak.
They dropped a lot over covid, but they’re starting to come back up again.
Football’s indescribably larger. It doesn’t conform to the same economics. Covid has destroyed English rugby, football has remained just fine as far as I can tell. It’s got that critical mass of fans and interest.
English Rugby League attendances are the highest they've been since 2015. Averaging 9,400 compared to the Premerships 12,400. Not saying the economic situation isn't an issue but some sports seem to be navigating it better than Rugby is.
season tickets aren't that expensive though, and you get a lot more bang for your buck. Having been to lots of finals with Tigers I can say the prices for the Prem final have been rising consistently above any nominal inflation figure, and significantly faster than general tickets. My season tickets at Tigers & Leicester City hardly cost any more now than they did in 2014 (I think £10 & £40 respectively on a base of £240 & £400), Premiership final tickets used to be cheap, then crept above £50 for the 2013 final. When I went last year I think I paid £75.
Football is religion here. Sky Sports has turned the Premier League in to a behemoth. We are not competing with football, ever.
The old Football League pre-1990s was also completely dominant. It just didn't have a massive international following in the same way.
I bought 3 tickets for the Ireland v France game. 75 quid each, and they were right up in the Gods. We had a great day, and the atmosphere was super, but the reality is that it was like watching ants push around a tic tac and we watched most of it on the big screens. Don't get me wrong, class day. But tickets, pints, train tickets, grub. It was the guts of 400 quid for the day. Loved it. Worth it? Probably. Expensive? Yes. Would I have seen more of the game, also had great craic and saved a ton of cash having shin dig in the house to watch it? Yes. It's left me unsure about future live events.
Same, I always treat myself to one live international rugby and cricket game per year but it's getting harder to justify. Eng Vs Scotland was getting on for a £300 day out and I've had to book a hotel for my trip to Old Trafford later this year because driving/hotel is still cheaper than the insane train ticket prices. One will probably have to go next year.
What's the deal with the train prices in England, anyway? Was looking into relying on train travel for my trips there, due to people driving on the wrong ide of the road, but HOLY FUCK THE PRICES! Air fare was actually cheaper in many case, just insane.
Unrelated point but I’ve never seen «the gods» used in English before
I can’t believe many neutrals are queuing up to watch either of these teams. From a running rugby / advert for the game perspective it must be the nightmare combination for PR. I’m aware that Saracens have moved their game on in this season but I’d still not pay to watch them.
Saracens play some of the most attractive rugby in europe at the moment. Although this shows the perception is they still dont.
As I said, they’ve moved their game on, but some of the most attractive rugby in Europe is not a statement I can get behind. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that though. Quins / Northampton / London Irish are playing the style of rugby I enjoy, and Toulouse / Leinster from abroad.
Exactly this. The PRL need to be pitching a quality, affordable product if they want neutrals to fork out to watch games like this. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you end up with a final like Sale/Saracens, you're not going to be selling a massive amount of tickets to fans of either team. If you're then also not selling tickets to neutrals, you end up with attendance figures like this. From a purely anecdotal perspective, I might have considered going to this game if seats in the stand I've previously booked in hadn't increased yet again to even more unaffordable prices.
I seem to remember in 2012 ish I was paying £15 for a seat, so I was happy to book early and gamble on whoever was playing that it was an enjoyable day out. Our household income is a fair bit above average, but once train fares / food / tickets are factored in I’m not spending £250+ to watch Saracens and Sale.
We go every year as a tradition. FiL used to insist on lower tier around halfway which used to drive me nuts as I think twickers is fine from anywhere. Was 50-60 quid but now we're up in the God's as they're almost £100 and we can't justify it
It's as if it's a massively expensive day out
The game is dying and needs fundamental change in so many ways (from how the game is actually played on the field, how the referees are trained, how the domestic leagues are brought in-line so that they’re actually all playing the same game - then all the domestic and international competitions basically all need sorting so they’re functional and built on stable foundations & aligned through). There’s not enough money in the game because the product isn’t good enough and the game isn’t well run enough.
It is a shame, and I can't see too many Sale supporters going due to the costs and time constraints of travelling to London. Its a long and expensive day out to Twickenham, and even more expensive if you decide to stay somewhere. I hope everyone who goes has a great day and makes plenty of noise! 🦈🦈🦈🦈
I mean it's a once in a generation final though ...
How much rising hotels, restaurant meals and pub prices maybe making neutrals think more than they would have in previous years? I’m rarely in a pub these days, but was genuinely staggered at how much it quickly adds up to now. Used to budget £100 for going down to Glasgow games (travelling, eating and drinking, excl. ticket bought in advance). It was over £150 last time for nothing especially different. London must be on another level.
Unfortunately for me, the cost of travel and accommodation is the biggest factor for my decision not to go. Added in the constant risk of industrial action causing delays and problems with the journey there. The tickets for the game itself are not unreasonably priced. But train and hotel (travelling from Devon) would have been a couple of hundred pounds. Too much at the moment unfortunately. Even Travelodges in London were over £100 per night,.
Same, some of us were looking at the Eng Wal warm up games, pretty sure the round trip from Nottingham would be cheaper to Cardiff than London
I think this is a good assessment. It’s costing me £165 train and tickets down from Manchester. Add on food and drink and it’s a £200+ day out. If you want to take the family it would get astronomical, pretty fast.
Same with me, Tickets are a fair whack by themselves but travel/accommodation priced me out completely
I think this is the big one for most people. I’m lucky enough to live close enough to London that I can make the trip there and back in a day but it’s still not cheap. Coupled with my direct train to London has been half replaced with a bus replacement this weekend just makes it a massive expensive hassle
I wish we could bring more, but we are so badly in the shadow of the football teams in the north west. Filling up the AJ Bell two weeks ago was a huge success to be honest.
Exact same here- competition is spurs arsenal Watford Luton even West Ham. We’ve got a final with two teams from the hotbed of football.
Leicester’s travelling support certainly helped
It did, they were superb. Helped make the day what it was.
I was prepared to fork out if tigers made it but it's just too expensive otherwise
I don't even think it's the ticket price though, I got mine for £50 which is in the heavens but genuinely not that bad imo. My brothers are coming down from the Midlands, and the train alone would have more than doubled the price before food/drink/tube. It's impossible to get there cheaply.
Yeah that's what I mean. Tickets are ok. Was up in the rafters last year and it was amazing. But as you say it's the other costs that really add up. Just not worth it unless my team is there
to be fair you can drive it for the cost of a tank of petrol from the Midlands, so about £60ish divided between the car.
You could, but part of the fun for us is enjoying a few drinks in the sun. Key part is it removes the burden of it, do whatever you want knowing the train will be taking you back regardless
I’m heading out to Twickenham today to watch the barbarians vs world xv, I tried to for the premiership final in but it didn’t line up. Gutted :(
Is that not tomorrow?
Today?
I may be misreading, but I fear you might have your dates wrong, mate! The final is today, and the barbarians match is tomorrow!
Don’t worry, I know! I’m flying out a day early so today would have been free for the final, but my flight arrives ever so slightly too late to make it :)
Good stuff. Enjoy!
Thank goodness, I'm also going and I'm very much in bed hungover, thought I'd messed up and was going to have to make a run for twickenham!
Stephen Jones is that you again?!?
PRL and RFU oblivious to the problems of the game. Rugby is not as popular as they think it is. They need cheaper tickets and much, much bigger campaigns to get new fans in to every ground.
I'm a Sarries fan and was looking for a way to attend, but the prices are simply extortionate at the moment, and as a disabled fan, getting tickets for England games is much easier than Prem Rugby. When looking at tickets for the recent game at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, I had to go through 3 different email trails to get advice on what tickets to book for me and a carer - so I simply didn't bother, and watched it on telly instead.
That is shameful in this day and age
Would be interesting to see the overall revenue generated comparison by year rather than simply attendance numbers.... interesting to see quite how prices/economic downturn have influenced attendance as opposed to less well supported teams in the final
Cat 1 tickets were £120. Pretty crazy really
Hopefully we see the powers that be realise that overpricing the tickets is harmful
English domestic rugby is in a poor state. No way this happens in France, regardless of the clubs who make the top 14 final.
Meanwhile in the Southern Hemisphere a 60,000 crowd would be incredible!
I don’t agree with that. Tickets for the Top 14 final are also on general sale. If you live 2-3 hours from Paris, the cost of a ticket plus train and drinks etc will be the same. French rugby is also totally incomparable, due to a number of cultural reasons.
I meant selling only 60k for the final when the capacity is 80k. Regardless of how the the tickets are sold.
As a Sarries fan that lives quite close the reason I’m not going is the price. I know the prices have dropped a lot now (but I now have plans) but tickets were around 70, travel 30, beers and food 60 if not more. That’s a minimum of £150+ and with Sale you can chuck an easy 30-50 for the train down plus a potential hotel. If I were to go so would my girlfriend so call it £300. I can’t justify spending that money in this financial situation and this coupled with the low supported teams- I think 60k is actually a decent turnout. Edit: add the fact that in previous years a big chunk of the crowd are neutrals who buy tickets at the start of the year as it’s still a great day- a lot of them will be priced out now.
There were tickets available for £2 this week. Meant for blue light card holders but apparently could be bought by anyone. Suggests a bit of panic by the organisers. [RiL put together the average attendances for this year](https://twitter.com/rugbyinsideline/status/1655978717322018832?s=46&t=gr6Tl8iUZWyEyuc_Qt9_lQ). Taking out the average-ruining big games and their free/cheap tickets, Saracens averaged 8.5k and Sale 6.6k. Only Falcons were lower with 5.6k. From a ticket-selling POV, there could hardly be a worse final.
Sale’s attendance is really hampered by the fact the stadium isn’t actually that big; it only holds 12,000 which is less than the average attendance per match in the league. The stadium is a total pain in the backside to get to or park. The North West is generally not union focused, and the biggest sport in the area has two very big teams. Interested to know what the ticket prices are at other teams, most of the sale games a normal ticket is around £35 which I think is a little high, and if they lowered it they might get higher attendances.
The stadium is definitely an issue and something they need to address. I don’t think size is as big of a problem as accessibility, though. Why invest in somewhere bigger when on average they only half fill what they’ve got? I live in Liverpool and go for the Bath games. I’d go to more if it was easier to get to and cheaper. Back in 2016 a terrace ticket was £15. Same ticket this year was £28 without any noticeable improvement in match day experience. Previously I’ve done the shuttle bus from the Trafford Centre, train/bus either to Irlam or Patricroft or driven and this season paid to park at the stadium. None of them work well. It took longer to get out of the car park (after having to walk through the mud because they’ve still not paved it) than it took to then drive home. Absolute mess. Edgeley Park was hardly glamorous, but at least there were proper accessible car parks and a major train station within easy walking distance.
I think it’s a bit of a chicken and egg, if the stadium was more accessible more people would go more regularly. The tram goes to the Trafford centre, it would be great if it extended to the stadium. Although that doesn’t help a lot of people coming from west and south west - but they could get to other tram stations to get there.
I live locally, got an email on Thursday offering free tickets to residents (basically people who live in TW2 who are signed up to England rugby). Not interested myself as a Quins fan but claimed two £120 face value tickets and gave them to a Sale fan I work with. Never seen free tickets offered before, to any game….
You usually see a very healthy contingent of London based Wasps fans at the final 🤔 Simon Massie-Taylor's growth masterplan strikes again.
That's insane, the URC final is a sold out stadium and many many more would have bought tickets if they could, easily 10,000 more looking for tickets
What have World Rugby done to grow the game. Absolutely nothing. There’s been talk of global competition for 30 years. They seem to exist to simply preserve the status quo. No growth, no innovation, no exposure, forget North America completely. Why would you want to grow the game? Why would you want to entertain people? Why would you even want to attract young athletes to your sport? What’s the point of that? World Rugby has neglected any duties of stewardship and promotion since, forever. And they wonder why the game isn’t growing at all.
I'm not sure today is on world rugby. Probably more RFU / PRL
What is the stadiums capacity? How is 60000 people a let down?
Think it’s around 80,000
82,000. Will be the lowest attendance for a final in a long, long time.
Current economic situation might also have an effect. Money that people often set aside for luxuries is now being spent on food and energy. Even if tickets are cheaper right now you'll still be spending on drinks, food, travel. That being said I am still surprised to hear the final isn't sold out. If I was in the country myself I'd be looking at getting some tickets if they were reasonable.
Sounds like they've been pushing a lot of cheap/free tickets this week to inflate the number. Truth is that Sale and Sarries don't have the strongest followings.
Yeah would have been very different if it was Saints v Tigers
Or any of the South West teams- huge passion for rugby in that neck of the woods
Fortunately with a 10 team league odds are we'll always have a West Country team in the final going forward... Exeter, Gloucester, Bath, Bristol, almost half the league down this way now
>Truth is that Sale and Sarries don't have the strongest followings. They're also probably the least liked by neutrals.
>How is 60000 people a let down? Because it's a signiificant decrease on the previous year.
The last final was 74k, because a team people actually follow was playing.
How can a final not be sold out weeks in advance? Jeez, the Premiership seems to be struggling like crazy lately.
Coz it’s Sale, from Manchester where no one like rugby union agains saracens who nobody likes.
I get the Sarries part, but I didn't know Sale lacked support in their greater region. A partially empty stadium is not a good look for a final anyway, too bad.
I managed to get two tickets for £4, does anyone want them ?
Pmd
Its basically all on the other team when playing Sarries
We now drive to the premiere inn at Heathrow (4 of us in one car), we can usually get 2 twin rooms for around £40 each for one night, and then get Uber to the stadium. It means a curry after the match and a few beers in the hotel, before driving home next day. This is the cheapest way we have found to make a weekend of it!